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Hello Geminauts, I have made my decision regarding favicon support in Amfora. They are currently opt-in, and now they will be removed. https://github.com/makeworld-the-better-one/amfora/issues/199#issuecomment-783645893 I had no idea they would be so controversial, and I am glad to put this piece of drama behind me. They were a fun experiment, but ultimately I cannot justify them. Some would say I don't need to, but I would like to. I will be changing makeworld.space's favicon to U+1F6AB NO ENTRY SIGN: ? Feel free to do the same, or not. Enjoy Gemini, and go outside once in a while too :) Cheers, makeworld
> On Feb 22, 2021, at 21:21, colecmac at protonmail.com wrote: > > They were a fun experiment, but ultimately I cannot justify them Why? Are you not depriving your very own users from a fun, harmless functionality in the name of some misplaced ideological purity? This looks like bullying. And the terrorists win. Again. Disappointing. ?0?
Petite Abeille <petite.abeille at gmail.com> writes: >> On Feb 22, 2021, at 21:21, colecmac at protonmail.com wrote: >> >> They were a fun experiment, but ultimately I cannot justify them > Agreed. > Why? > > Are you not depriving your very own users from a fun, harmless > functionality in the name of some misplaced ideological purity? Looking at the linked github issue. It seemed like the person that created it wasn't very interested in anything other than "do what I want" or else the sites will be blacklisted. Sometimes I think that ideologies are important, especially since many of these niche communities are based around such ideas like minimalism. But then other times, the ideologies are used as weapons... which is not constructive? I am just new to the gemini community (first time posting here). So hopefully my thoughts aren't too out of context! Thanks, Rafi P.S. I am new to mailing lists. Please let me know if the way I am replying is bad or my client is not correctly configured.
Rafi Khan <rafi at rafikhan.io> writes: > Petite Abeille <petite.abeille at gmail.com> writes: > >>> On Feb 22, 2021, at 21:21, colecmac at protonmail.com wrote: >>> >>> They were a fun experiment, but ultimately I cannot justify them >> > Agreed. Please disregard this part of my message! It was placed in the wrong place. I was trying to agree with the comment that this seems like bullying. But also, reading the github issue, the owner of the repo does say that's not what it is. Rafi
It is bullying and he is toxic to every community he is a part of. I was disappointed to see him join Gemini discussions and try to strong arm out the spirit of exploration and experimentation. > On Feb 22, 2021, at 3:17 PM, Rafi Khan <rafi at rafikhan.io> wrote: > > ?Rafi Khan <rafi at rafikhan.io> writes: > >> Petite Abeille <petite.abeille at gmail.com> writes: >> >>>>> On Feb 22, 2021, at 21:21, colecmac at protonmail.com wrote: >>>>> >>>>> They were a fun experiment, but ultimately I cannot justify them >>> >> Agreed. > > Please disregard this part of my message! It was placed in the wrong > place. I was trying to agree with the comment that this seems like > bullying. > > But also, reading the github issue, the owner of the repo does say > that's not what it is. > > Rafi
Am Mo, 22. Feb 2021, um 21:21, schrieb colecmac at protonmail.com: > Hello Geminauts, > > I have made my decision regarding favicon support in Amfora. They are currently > opt-in, and now they will be removed. Hi makeworld In my opinion you made a fatal mistake and set a dangerous precedent in giving in to the pressure of a single Gemini user. Favicons are neither part of the Gemini Spec nor do they contradict it. That is a fact for all who can read. Unfortunately, false information and misinterpretations of "the spirit of the spec" are thrown around here, so my hair stands on end. A specification should not determine what content can be transmitted and displayed. And it doesn't. We're talking about a single text/plain resource with a single (!) UTF-8 character and emotions go high as to whether it should be allowed for client developers to implement the special display of such a file or not. It is the task of the Gemini specification to protect against undesirable developments and it already does that very well. You are a developer who has invested hundreds of hours or probably more and you have greatly enriched the Gemini community. You shouldn't degrade your work that way. You have a proven track record. Amfora is everywhere and so many users love it for a reason. It makes me deeply sad that cancel culture has found its way into Gemini so quickly. It makes me even sadder that that leading contributors in the Gemini community are verbally attacked and then give in to pressure from individuals who are not officially affiliated with Gemini (if there is still such a thing anyway) whatsoever. It is not the favicon that is against "the spirit of Gemini". It's the way this was dealt with. It's a shame that Solderpunk doesn't seem to have the time to give this community one or two clues as to what his thoughts are. All of this provides a foretaste of what is likely to come in the future. Will Gemini become a club for a small self-proclaimed elite who see it as their personal hobby to bully and pressure developers and/or content providers instead of making the fruits of all the work of many volunteers available to everyone and embrace or at least allow for some room of experimentation. - Louis
> giving in to the pressure of a single Gemini user I think you have mischaracterized my decision here. Obviously Drew's threat colours all of this, but I made the choice myself, after reading dozens of messages on the mailing list and elsewhere. Drew blackholing his capsule is not a significant threat to me, and could easily be circumvented. I appreciate the compliments, and hope to continue to "enrich the Gemini community" as you kindly put it. makeworld
On 22-Feb-2021 20:21, colecmac at protonmail.com wrote: > I have made my decision regarding favicon support in Amfora [...] they will be removed. > > I had no idea they would be so controversial, and I am glad to put this piece of > drama behind me. They were a fun experiment, but ultimately I cannot justify > them. Some would say I don't need to, but I would like to. > > > Enjoy Gemini, and go outside once in a while > too :) Yes we all need to get out more - it seems Solderpunk has discovered the benefits of this. I think it is a shame this experiment has generated so much agitation. It is not any kind of violation of the gemini spec. While we are talking about slippery slopes, policing for "authenticity" or violations of "the gemini way" is a slippery slope takes us into a rather dark space in my view. Whilst it may seem attractive to attempt to turn a technical specification into a political manifesto, these aspects should be separated into the technical spec which is about interoperability, and a FAQ or motivation document that lays out broader objectives and the underlying perspective that the spec seeks to support. If you still like the idea of site based icons to assist with bookmarking and the like, why not investigate "auto theming" and have amfora select a persistent emoji itself based on the URL. ?- Luke
On Mon, Feb 22, 2021 at 1:22 PM colecmac at protonmail.com < colecmac at protonmail.com> wrote: > Hello Geminauts, > > I have made my decision regarding favicon support in Amfora. They are > currently > opt-in, and now they will be removed. > > > https://github.com/makeworld-the-better-one/amfora/issues/199#issuecomment-783645893 > > I had no idea they would be so controversial, and I am glad to put this > piece of > drama behind me. They were a fun experiment, but ultimately I cannot > justify > them. Some would say I don't need to, but I would like to. > > > I will be changing makeworld.space's favicon to U+1F6AB NO ENTRY SIGN: ? > Feel free to do the same, or not. Enjoy Gemini, and go outside once in a > while > too :) > > > Cheers, > makeworld > Thanks for experimenting! I'll drop the code from my client that was exploring this - seems like a good conclusion. On to the next experiment! -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: <https://lists.orbitalfox.eu/archives/gemini/attachments/20210222/7f0f 61d7/attachment.htm>
On Mon, Feb 22, 2021 at 09:37:00PM +0100, Petite Abeille <petite.abeille at gmail.com> wrote a message of 16 lines which said: > This looks like bullying. And the terrorists win. Again. Most of your messages are useless but calling someone who just barked a "terrorist" is really too much, and an insult against the actual victims of the real terrorists. Whatever one think of the favicon proposal, and of the flamewar started by an angry person, we should try to be more careful in terminology.
> On Feb 23, 2021, at 09:14, Stephane Bortzmeyer <stephane at sources.org> wrote: > > Most of your messages are useless For once, we are in full agreement. ?0?
On Mon, Feb 22, 2021 at 08:21:57PM +0000, colecmac at protonmail.com wrote: > Hello Geminauts, Hi! > I have made my decision regarding favicon support in Amfora. They are currently > opt-in, and now they will be removed. I like the favicon proposal, i do not think is harmful, illegal or morally wrong when the choice to use this feature is left to user with an opt-in mechanism, moreover i think the best way to resist to tracking is to keep the protocol simple so that many different client can exists and people could choose the client that better fits their tastes or needs. FWIW I am going to keeps favicon as opt-in feature in my client. Moreover i am likely the only user of my client so if you find a request to favicon.txt probably you can consider this my salute to you! :-D Bye! C.
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