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Re: "Biden vs. Trump: we lose either way"
The really terrifying is that Trump is pushing the “fake-facts” as a serious agenda which has far greater consequences then just politics.
(I can understand why it is convenient to push the fake news narrative)
However facts are by definition as they are and they are usually based on available information which may or may not be complete the moment when presented.
Dismissing of facts as something subjective instead of pinning subjectiveness and mutability to the conclusion shifts the burden of negating your claim by default to someone else instead of you having to present a deduction./
Jan 30 · 7 months ago
🍀 gritty · 2024-01-30 at 11:45:
I read some article that said Kennedy is trying to keep any party from hitting a majority so the selection goes to (the house?), 1 vote per state, where trump is likely to win.
🐵 akkartik · 2024-01-30 at 15:39:
I mostly agree, but it feels overblown to say, "Biden has not changed anything for the better." I suppose it depends on what you're looking at.
There's definitely a Wag-the-Dog incentive here to start a war, but is there any evidence that Biden is doing so? So far he mostly seems to be trying to control things.
I think Biden is concerned more about legacy than power, which makes me trust him more.
🖥️ zetamacs · 2024-01-30 at 16:01:
Some part of me feels ashamed that I haven't voted for a president in the last two elections.
But the part that prevails is the one where the conscience speaks loud and clear. I couldn't endorse either party's candidate. I believe, once again, that they're both bad for the country in their own ways and choosing "the lesser evil" is not choosing anything good.
IF one pressed me hard enough on this, I'd say Trump has no business leading anyone. He's a wicked, tyrannical, delusional man who needs to be stopped, not re-elected. But of course, that doesn't automatically make his competition the right choice.
🚀 stack [OP] · 2024-01-30 at 16:59:
@akkatik: I stand by my opinion that Biden has not improved anything - in fact things are now much, much worse. The pandemic has been blown up from dealing a disease with twice the mortality of the modern flu to a bizzare corporate giveaway. Internally, the economy is wrecked from a quadrupling of the money supply -- inflation, zombie corporations funded for no reason. Government intervention is everywhere, with no purpose. Standard of living is greatly reduced, and minorities are worse off than ever. Politicians don't even pretend to be not corrupt. The country is deeply involved in major military interventions, first indirect, and now direct. That is far from a complete list...
🚀 stack [OP] · 2024-01-30 at 17:03:
Has there ever been someone I could truly vote for? I don't think so, in my lifetime. I was too young for Carter... I think he was genuinely a good person. After that it's been a shitshow of psychopaths.
🐵 akkartik · 2024-01-30 at 17:04:
Also, you missed a row. Abuses women: Trump ✓
🚀 stack [OP] · 2024-01-30 at 17:06:
@akkartik: Did you miss Biden sniffing women's hair, and handling someone's wife on camera early on in the term? But yeah, Trump is indeed a rapist; a bigger checkmark applies to him.
🚀 stack [OP] · 2024-01-30 at 17:19:
I think that high officials are scared of fully prosecuting Trump and winding up with half the population picking up pitchforks. Not to mention that Trump is likely to have pictures of them from Epstein's island. Any normal person would be rotting in prison. The level of corruption would make Soviet Union politicians envious.
🖥️ zetamacs · 2024-01-30 at 17:31:
@stack You be truthin'.
It's not a witch hunt to go after him for the things he's done wrong - the problem is, it's no secret that others have also done terrible things, nor do those bad things lose politicians their supporters.
This puts on public display how there's a different set of rules for Trump and others like him, on all sides. The law doesn't apply equally (sometimes at all), bad publicity is good, and even those who admit you're a terrible person can be convinced they *need* you, if you're rich and powerful enough.
And this is what we're supposed to call "freedom"? To call "great"? This is a nightmare!
👤 nikhotmsk · 2024-01-30 at 17:46:
Give me the sources. All of them. You just say something serious about each of candidates, all of this needs to be linked to the source where you read about it. Otherwice I can not prove you wrong.
🚀 stack [OP] · 2024-01-30 at 17:59:
@nikhotmsk: If you care, google it yourself. You are a random person on the internet. Do you think I care about you proving me wrong -- or right?
🐐 satch · 2024-02-02 at 04:39:
Confused as to why comments here are hidden but the comment link is still up. Did they get so bad that everything had to be deleted? @skyjake
🕹️ skyjake [mod...] · 2024-02-02 at 05:24:
@satch Aha, seems we have a bug. When a post is moved, its comments stay behind in the original subspace! I'll fix it...
EDIT: Should be fixed now. Sorry about the confusion!
EDIT 2: I found ~20 comments similarly affected by posts being moved, and fixed the entries in the database. Should be all good now.
🐙 norayr · 2024-02-22 at 00:04:
folks, president of usa is also important outside of usa. if trump comes, we'll be given to be torn to pieces to some of our neighbours, including russia.
you may think i exaggregate. but it is literally that. they will get their extraterretoial corridor, they won't leave the occupied territories and they will get more, much more.. and they wil force us in to "common union" or how was it called. with russia.
🐙 norayr · 2024-02-22 at 00:13:
and you know, we don't want to be part of russia, we don't want to rot with them.
and i am not the from the ukraine, but one of the russia's hostage states. though called allies, russia doesn't have allies, it has hostages.
🚀 stack [OP] · 2024-02-22 at 00:23:
All recent Russian wars are provoked by the US trying to expand NATO to Russian border countries. Trump is not much of a problem with foreign policy -- you've seen him in action, not much happening.
I'd worry more about Biden -- he is a vegetable, and whoever runs him, is a _complete_ unknown, with a track record of stirring up trouble and starting wars.
I am, sadly, convinced that modern Democrat party is a warmongering bunch of murderous idiots, unfortunately. Without US provocation around Russia and Middle East, things should quiet down.
🐙 norayr · 2024-02-22 at 00:31:
well, nobody is ready to take us to nato, but if it was an option, that would be great protection from our opressor.
i mean, having russia ere it is not surprising when countries want to be closer to nato.
i assume you don't know russian and you are not aware of trues nzi propaganda on their media, all controlled by one man.
🐙 norayr · 2024-02-22 at 00:50:
i wish there will be a day when regular russian citizens will realize about their ountry something like what yourealize about yours.
tat they abused everyone they could reach and they'd better stay away.
but i don't see that happening soon. what i see is post imperial phantom pains and struggle to return former ussr republics to some kind of more dependent state than they are.
usa never demands to change the state language. people want to learn english. but when russian embassador opens a mouth - he says that we must have russian as a state language.
rusisia is very aggressive towards us, and since putin it is worse every year.
they were posessive before bt not to that extent.
🐙 norayr · 2024-02-22 at 00:51:
my message is: ui wish there were russians tlking abut their country like u about yours. but i dont see that coming.
🚀 stack [OP] · 2024-02-22 at 00:56:
@norayr - I am sure things look different from where you are! But if you think about it, right now Russia does not give a shit about you. Bring in some NATO missiles pointing over Georgia and have some NATO jets buzzing around, and you will be in the middle of World War 3. That is just common sense!
I actually do understand Russian and keep track of both Russian and American propaganda, and there is A LOT of it!
I don't mean to offend and I am not pro Russia. I understand that it is scary sitting next to a timebomb... At least you don't have a shared border, right?
🐙 norayr · 2024-02-22 at 01:00:
on trump, well they say it publicly. he didnt move a finger to stop 2020 44 days war, and the aim of it was to bring russian military base to nagorno-karabakh.
now democrats are forcing (Together with eu) our neighbour to be moderate in deies and to sign peace with u. he got what he wanted and ore, after the ethnic cleansing in 2023. but they need moe.
and the only reason we still exist is the west. well and iran.
but not russia.
🐙 norayr · 2024-02-22 at 01:00:
trump will again concentrate on domestic problems and wu'll be left to be swallowed by russia. thats not a great place. putin has long hisory killing political rival, ad he recently did it again, a couple of days ago.
you know, you see flaws of usa, but you cannot imagie how much more evil and corrupt and authoritarian russia is.
🐙 norayr · 2024-02-22 at 01:04:
no, they do give a lot of sihit. they eed a corridor thogh our territory which is controlled by them, to bypass snctions, and to divide us in 2 pieces, cripple in a way we can't do any independent setp. and they demand joining "union state" with themwhich will bring to an end ths try to create the armenian state.
🐙 norayr · 2024-02-22 at 01:06:
you dont explain palestinians that their oppressor is brazilia. they know their oppressor, we know ours.
🚀 stack [OP] · 2024-02-22 at 01:08:
@norayr: I dont claim to understand the details of the 44-day War, but I don't think the West was that successful there. Obviously a complicated situation with a long history. In the US they tell us that Russia was more of a third party, a 'peacekeeping force'.
🐙 norayr · 2024-02-23 at 19:18:
plus you can try to translate this text from russian
— https://graniru.org/Politics/Russia/m.288177.html
and i didn't comment on some things you have said: if usa brings missiles to armenia (big if) that won't matter to russia, because usa has missiles in turkey. whatever can reach from armenia, can reach from turkey.
secondly, neither nato nor ukraine was to start a military aggression towards russia. there is no justification for starting a war. do you understand, real war. people are getting killed. they were living fine.
🐙 norayr · 2024-02-23 at 19:20:
americans talk about american interventions. that's very good. but do russians talk about their interventions?
— Foreign interventions by the Soviet Union
— Foreign interventions by Russia
that doesn't include anything related to armenia though russia is very much involved.
🐙 norayr · 2024-02-23 at 19:23:
In the US they tell us that Russia was more of a third party, a 'peacekeeping force'.
yeah, exactly, you did right by keeping it in the quotes.
in fact the people of nagorno karabakh became hostages. the "peacekeeping force" was keeping (first together with azeri civilians, fake activits) 100.000 people in the blockade. they had nothing to eat for 9 months.
that to pressure us to give them the corridor.
then the "peacekeeping force" allowed ethnic cleansing of armenians. all 100.000 came to armenia. they haven't been killed, most of them, az allowed them to come here. well, because they didn't slauther 100.000 people but they got what they wanted.
🐐 satch · 2024-02-23 at 19:38:
@norayr hi
i'll just chime in by saying that while Ukraine never wanted the war with Russia, the US seems to have wanted it. Otherwise why did they work to stop the peace deals early on?
🐐 satch · 2024-02-23 at 19:40:
I think perhaps the US's goal was to weaken Russia economically and diplomatically through a proxy war in Ukraine which would end with total defeat for Russia and maybe a change of government. This is obviously not working out the way they intended.
🐙 norayr · 2024-02-23 at 20:01:
well, usa didn't have any hope in ukraine surviving russia's attack. they were telling the president to evacuate, since they believed russia would invade ukraine in 2 days.
later, when ukraine survived first attack, ukraine didn't want the "piece deal" on russian terms, on aggressor's terms.
because those terms mean accept the annexation of crimea and annexation of the eastern ukraine.
it is fair to not want to accept the unlawful annexation.
it is fair to support those who do not accept military annexation, and appeal to the international law.
i understand that usa looks like villain in your eyes and i envy usa society, since russia doesn't look envy in most of the russian citizen's eyes.
🐙 norayr · 2024-02-23 at 20:02:
by the fact, it is russia which started the military aggression. usa did not start it. it is russia which invades cities, eliminates those from the face of the earth.
it is they who are guilty and it is they who are aggressor.
hating usa, or antarctida won't change these facts.
hitler also was saying that "they were forced to invade". people who kill other people say that "they had no other way".
but we punish them, we do not justify them.
🐙 norayr · 2024-02-23 at 20:07:
I think perhaps the US's goal was to weaken Russia economically and diplomatically through a proxy war in Ukraine which would end with total defeat for Russia and maybe a change of government. This is obviously not working out the way they intended.
well, then why the russia was manipulated by that?
here someone named A. he manipulates someone named B to kill someone named C. who killed C? who had the weapon and who did the job?
putin has deep pain for the "russian empire". he said it publicly. he said that the ussr was the empire, and that it is a "catastrophe" that it doesn't exist now.
he wants to rebuild it. he has this "eurasian union" they forced us to join.
🐙 norayr · 2024-02-23 at 20:10:
literally forced in 1 hour!
because armenia is small and weak. and armenian president said publicly - it took 1 hour!
since he was threatened by the war. eventually we got both the war and the "union".
it was our luck that russia wasn't strong enough to enforce all the agenda, the same political state back then, in 2013.
putin also called yanukovich to the meeting, ukraine's president. he was from eastern ukraine, but he was elected with the program to get closer to european union.
putin threatened him and he refused to sign the agreement a couple of months before the agreement for which ukraine(like us) was working for years had to be signed.
the people were very much unhappy by that.
🐙 norayr · 2024-02-23 at 20:13:
they went to rallies, the government even shot people on the streets.
eventually russia anenxed crimea, and the president of ukraine ran away to russia.
if you want your brother to be in good relations with you, you don't abuse him, you are not toxic to him, and you respect him.
putin says that there is no "brother", he said in the recent interview to that former fox guy, that he doesn't agree that ukraine has a right to be a state. he told this 2.5 hours long story to justify his invasion. he really believes that his mission is to invade the nation because he thinks the people of ukraine doesn't deserve having a state.
🐙 norayr · 2024-02-23 at 20:15:
he also hats our leader because we elected him.
we got rid of corrupted government, which was supported by russia. russia has not much to suggest, and when they have, they don't want to.
as we know again from public interviwes of politicians who tried to negotiate with putin, they say - he doesn't negotiate. he says and we have to obey, otherwise he punishes.
so it was a "tradition" that the former republic leader (both ukraine and armenia) had to be presented to putin, then only "elected".
armenian people didn't tolerate that. they wanted real elections. we have different society than russia. armenian police (small society) this time didn't support the regime with much brutality.
🐙 norayr · 2024-02-23 at 20:18:
so we got who we wanted.
very similar to like in case with georgia, we got war as revenge.
our new leader did everything to demonstrate how loyal he is to putin. and that his only aim is to eliminate corruption inside the country.
but then putin said - those are my friends. and he didn't allow that.
our leader even sent troops to syria, which usa didn't like at all, just to prove to putin how loyal he is. but that didn't help. the leader of former republic shouldn't come by elections, without being approved by putin.
he has his rules. he has his vision. they said "they (armenia) have no choice, they have to join "common state" with russia.
🐙 norayr · 2024-02-23 at 20:19:
eventually. what putis says, is that "peter has stolen, so can i".
if you're good, you don't say that.
you don't do what bad people do.
you do what good people do. if usa have stolen, you don't have to do the same. and you don't have to kill innocent kids in ukraine.
have you seen the photos? don't those raise emotions? have you seen burned down buildings?
🚀 stack [OP] · 2024-02-23 at 20:45:
@satch yes! That's what they do. Walk away from negotiations and start over. Look a decades of this with Iran. There is no money in peace, and small wars help elections
🐐 satch · 2024-02-23 at 21:42:
@norayr i think you might be making assumptions about my beliefs which aren't quite right. I really do fault Putin and Russia for the war first and foremost. They are the aggressors, they are morally responsible for the majority of the suffering the war has caused, and they should be condemned by every nation in the world for this war.
I would *much* rather Ukraine win then Russia.
Just because the USA has actively made the situation worse and helped to create it in the first place doesn't mean that Russia gets off the hook for invading a sovereign nation.
🐙 norayr · 2024-02-23 at 22:37:
i am sorry.
i find myself sensitive to the extent i might be better off such discussions.
i just felt that some people might not be informed well enough.
but enough justifying myself. i feel i owe an apology to everyone who received notifications.
🐐 satch · 2024-02-23 at 22:44:
@norayr it's ok, don't worry :) i appreciate hearing your perspective
🚀 stack [OP] · 2024-02-24 at 00:49:
@norayr: I don think anyone disagrees with you!
🚀 stack [OP] · 2024-02-24 at 00:59:
This post was about the possible outcomes of US presidential election, especially regarding the US foreign policy (as in starting wars in Ukraine, Middle East and China).
Nothing in this post or followups justifies Putin!
Biden vs. Trump: we lose either way — [preformatted] This is pretty pathetic. I hate it when Trump is right, and he is right about Biden trying to start a war to get re-elected. Biden, or whoever the puppet master behind him is, has been working hard to stir up trouble. I really hope it does not go full out. Trump is a total criminal scumbag, but to be fair, Biden has not changed anything for the better. I think Trump is less likely to blow us all up -- he is in it to pardon himself and walk...