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IRC log started Mon Nov  7 20:29

<visa> are you sure Visa is on '#bahai'?
<Justin:#baha'i> Visa is on #bahai.
<visa> hahaha

<Justin> heh, sorry. Talking to someone in #baha'i.

<Tsutomu:#baha'i> hello!
<visa> Just a min.......
<Tsutomu:#baha'i> Are you still there?
<Justin> Hello LieF93.
<lieF93> hi

<Tsutomu:#baha'i> hey Paul!

<visa:#baha'i> Hi tom?
<Tsutomu:#baha'i> what's up?
<Tsutomu:#baha'i> I just came to say hi!
<visa:#baha'i> Oh great!

<visa:#baha'i> do you have to go soon?
<Tsutomu:#baha'i> can't you get on in 3 hours

<visa:#baha'i> I'm not sure, why?
<Tsutomu:#baha'i> I tried to convice Amin to join.  and Navid.  Both of them don't know about irc.
<Justin:#baha'i> Tsutomu: Are you a Baha'i?
<Tsutomu:#baha'i> my terminal very slow.  How about yours?
<Tsutomu:#baha'i> Justin: I'm not... but I was at Maxwell for four years.  In another word I know about Baha'i Faith.
<visa:#baha'i> I wrote Navid earlier, I also told him about IRC too.
<Justin:#baha'i> Oh, ok.
<Tsutomu:#baha'i> visa: I hope I can talk to you after.  I got to go.
<Tsutomu:#baha'i> justin: I'm sorry I can't stay around.
<Justin:#baha'i> Later Tsutomu. That's ok.
<Tsutomu:#baha'i> see you guys!
<visa:#baha'i> Ok tom,

<Countess> hello!
> Hello.

> How are you?
<Countess> how are you?
<Countess> fine
<Countess> ive only been here once before
> Very good.

> Are you a Baha'i?
<Countess> no, im not, im afraid...  :)
<Countess> i talked to a couple of people here once..
> oh, ok.
> If you have any questions, feel free to ask.

<Countess> i had to find some info on your religion for my human diversity class and they were kind enough to help me!
> Oh really. Where do you go to school?
<Countess> i go to college at miami university in hamilton ohio..
<Countess> and you?
> I'm currently in high school in Charlotte, North Carolina.
<Countess> cool
> Are you done with your human diversity project now?
> I assume it's a project atleast.
<Countess> im still kind of confused on a couple of things they tried to explain to me...
<Countess> no im not..
> Oh, ok. Like what?
<Countess> its not really a project..
> ah, alright. Just research for the class?
<Countess> we picked a religion/part #beastie
<Countess> oops!! hold on..
> ok
<Countess> i was on the beastie boys #
<Countess> hehe

<Countess> anyway..
<Countess> we had to pick a religion and just find out some general info on it...
<Countess> the two guys i talked to here, tried to go too indepth, more than what i needed..
> Ok. I can try to be simpler if you'd like. What did you need clearing up?
<Countess> i need to know what the baha'i perception of heaven and hell is..
> ok. Basically we don't beleive in what is commonly called hell:
<Countess> is it like how christians believ it heaven=light and hell=fire
> We beleive that heaven is an afterlife (simular to Christian beleif) and that hell is like a deformation in heaven.
<Countess> what would it be like in hell?
> Hell is being "deformed" in heaven. You can't fully do everything that everyone else can.
<Countess> such as?
> It's just an analogy though. Hell is being far away from God and not being able to do all that others can.
<Countess> kind of like a lost lonely feeling??

> Yes somewhat.
<Countess> hello visa
> Lost form God.
> from God that is.
<Countess> hold on
> Also, it is important to note that we do not believe that humans can understand fully what heaven is like. Only can we understand it in metaphor and analogy, until we die.
> ok.
<Countess> ok, im back..
<Justin> ok.,
<VISA:#baha'i> Hey again Justin and Log (same thing!)
<Justin> Am I being clear, or just rambling?
<Justin:#baha'i> Yeah, it's all just me. :-)
<Countess> :) anyway..someone said something about God sent jesus, buddha and so forth..
<Justin> Yes. It's called progressive revolation. That all the major prophets of God were sent by the one and only God.
<Countess> as messengers
<Justin> yes.
<Countess> ok..and ...
<Countess> hmmm...
<Justin> Each messenger had the same teachings, just talored to that time period.
<Countess> you guys practice any religious holidays you want?
<Justin> We have our own ones.
<Countess> can you though?
<VISA> yes.
<Justin> Yes, it isn't forbidden.
<Countess> can you tell me some of your own?
<Justin> I can send you a complete list with dates if you want?
<Justin> Or just name some.
<VISA> If you belive in other religen why can't we practice their holly days.
<Countess> well, i need to know by tomorrow..just name a couple major ones...
<Justin> Oh, I ment I could email you that list right now.
<Countess> visa, what do you mean?
<Countess> oh, ok!
<Justin> Major ones: Birth of Baha'u'llah, the found of the Baha'i Faith. Nov 12th.
<Countess> what year?
<Justin> I don't know off hand. Let me send you the list, ok? I'll send it to: bsivey@miavx.ham.muohio.edu, ok?
<VISA> Being a Baha'i we have to belive in other religen.
<Justin> 1894? Is that right Visa?
<Countess> right
<Countess> what do you do to celebrate his birthday?
<Justin> hold a sec. I'm sending the list.
<VISA> yes, I belive so.
<Countess> ok
<Countess> how about conversion into baha'i?
<Countess> is there like a ritual to go through?

<Countess> hello pkelly

<VISA> Nope, it is basicly what is in your heart.
<Countess> ok
<Justin> Baha'u'llah was born in 1817. Sorry for the delay. I just sent the list.
<Countess> and there are services every 19 days (like church)?
<Justin> Yes, called Feast.
<VISA> yes, we call it 19 Day Feast. 
<Justin> The Feast for the spirit, body, and mind.
<Countess> so..
<Justin> The mind part is really primarily social.
<VISA> every 19 days is 1 Baha'i mounth.
<Countess> if baha'u'llah is like one of the messengers...
<Countess> then how do you know who the next messenger will be or when..or does anyone know?
<Justin> We know that the next messenger will not be within 1,000 years of the previous one. That is said by Baha'u'llah.
<Countess> ok.
<Countess> and..
<Justin> As to who, nothing is said specifically, however there are basic things like: Will only bare good fruits (from the Bible), etc.
<VISA> Countess, how did you know about the Baha'i Faith?
<Justin> Also, God will make manifest He Who He Wishes.
<Countess> what about how christians now believe that armageddon is coming soon, what do you think about it?
<Countess> we had to pick from a group of religions..
<Justin> It's armageddon of the Old World Order.
<VISA> Oh!
<Justin> The old world order is dying and a new one is taking it's place.
<Countess> could you put it a little more simply..?
<Justin> So the armegeddon is only for the old world order. It's not to be taken so literaly.
<Justin> The bad things in the world are dying.
<Justin> And the new good things are taken there place.

<VISA> Humankind is raching the stage of maturity.
<Justin> It's the armegeddon of the bad things, basically. Do you see?
<Countess> do you have the same perception of those saved being lifted into heaven and those damned left here for the fire? like in revelations?
<Justin> Only in the sense of heaven on earth. Those who choose to live with the New way of life, will live in peace and happiness ("heaven").
<Justin> Those who don't will be left in the old world order and will suffer with it.
<Countess> but, do you perceive it the same way, as say, baptists do?

<Justin> I'm not fully aware of how Baptists perceive it. Can you explain.
<Countess> hello stevet
<Justin> Hello Stevet, how are you?
<Stevet> Hi Countess
<Stevet> HI Justin , Fime thank u and U?
<Stevet> HI Visa.
<Justin> Just fine. :-)
<Stevet> R all of u Baha'is
<Countess> ok..we think that everyone saved will just disappear when its time and that sinners will be left down here..basically all hell will break loose, fire and war and all that, eternal burning..
<Countess> i not..
<Countess> im rather..
<Countess> :)
<Justin> Stevet: Me and Visa are however.
<Stevet> I am one too.
<VISA> How about u stevet?
<Justin> Well, we perceive that as just a analogy. Those who choose to stay in the old world, so to speak, will suffer simular to being burned.
<VISA> you meen one two three ...
<Countess> so, there is no way that we could truly know what will happen..right?
<Stevet> Visa I am one also.
<Justin> For sure. But, we know that certain things will happen for example:
<Justin> We are told that by the Gregorian year of 2000, there will be what Baha'is call the Lesser Peace. The Lesser Peace
<Justin> is a mainly political solution to the current wars and such.
<Stevet> Visa I know.
<Countess> is that like armageddon??
<Stevet> Visa just new to the Faith.
<Justin> Later on there will be the Most Great Peace, which will be a self transformation solution to the problems.
<Justin> So we have some idea of what is to happen.
<Justin> I wouldn't say that it's like an armageddon, no.
<Countess> oh,ok..
<Countess> i have another question..
<Justin> It's just to point out that we do belive we have some idea of the future happenings in the so call New World Oder.
<Justin> Order rather.
<Justin> sure.
<Countess> we were talking about other religions today like shinto and such and...
<Countess> some religions condone ritualistic suicide and and sacrifices....and...
<Countess> you say that you embrace all religions...so dont you believe in murder and suicide as wrong?
<Justin> We embrace the 9 major religions to date.
<Countess> well, the other person i talked to did..
<Countess> oh, ok!
<Countess> i get it..
<Countess> would you list those for me?
<Justin> ok. :-)
<Justin> Sure.
<Countess> sorry, about that!
<Justin> They are (listed by prophet founder):

<Justin> Abraham, Moses, Zoroaster, Christ, Mohammad, the Bab, Baha'u'llah, Budha, Krishna.
<Justin> Sorry for the wait. Hard to think of them all, for me.
<Justin> Not in order of course.
<Justin> You can finger me at: jinevill@cybernetics.com, for some basic information on the Faith, if you want.

<Countess> ok..
<Countess> hello kuen
<Kuen> Hi Countess..
<Countess> ok!
<Kuen> Justin, are you there?
<Justin> Yes, hello Kuen.
<Countess> and you definitely believe in not looking down upon others right?
<Justin> Yes.
<Justin> Who are we to judge?
<Countess> ok, and..
<Countess> thats what i think..but..
<Kuen> countess: what right are we talking about?
<Countess> most religions dont teach you that..
<Countess> what?
<Countess> i was asking him, right?
<Countess> i meant as in thats correct?
<Countess> :)
<Kuen> countess:  Sorry, I misunderstood you..
<Countess> hehe thats ok!
<Justin> Well it all depends on how you perceive the other religion's teaching. Also, each religion taught what was talored for that time period.
<Countess> ok, so you can either be born into baha'i or choose..

<Justin> Yes. And of course if you are born into it, you can still choose not to be one.
<Countess> so, say like if shinto taught to sacrifice yourself and you did..you would go to heaven???
<Justin> If I'm Shintoan(sp?)?
<Countess> so the same God could say in one religion suicide is condoned and in another one it could be wrong, and the person would still go to heaven?
<Countess> yes..
<Justin> Well, only if it is of the major 9 religions to date. Of those religion you will not find such major differences.
<Countess> i see, so if shinto is not you would not go to heaven?
<Justin> Such major fundamental differneces I should say.
<Justin> That would be up to God to decide how close you are to Him in heaven.
<Justin> I don't really know enough to say yes or know.
<Countess> what do you mean about close to God?
<Justin> or no rather. :-)
<Countess> what makes a person any spiritually better or worse?
<Justin> When I was speaking about heaven, I said that hell is like being far from God or not understanding and reconizing Him, therefore not receiveing His gifts.
<Justin> What makes you better or worse is accepting His message and acting on it.
<Countess> ok, so are there like certain commandments that you should follow?
<Countess> ok, and the message is..??
<Justin> The more you act on His Message, the better you are, I would say.
<Justin> The message for this time period is contained in the Writings of the founder, Baha'u'llah.
<Countess> ok.
<Justin> Yes there are certian commandments, they are in the same Writings.
<Countess> and are there any other main points that i should know about baha'i? like any interesting or different facts?
<Justin> Some of our Laws maybe.
<Countess> like?
<Justin> But, I think you have most of your bases covered so to speak.
<Justin> No alchohol, chastity before mariage...
<Justin> No mind impairing drugs, not murder, etc.
<Justin> no murder, even.
<Justin> But, those are really specifics, I don't know if you want to get into it that far?
<Countess> ok, and there are no weird or different things you do?

<Justin> Differnt: We try to stand out as examples of good.
<Countess> not meant in an offensive way, but some religions we talked about today had some real horror stories!
<Countess> ok, thats good!

<Justin> Well, there are sufferings of the founder.
<Countess> such as?
<Justin> Thanks you! For your great questions. I hope you do well in your studies.
<Countess> i need the good luck!  :)
<Justin> Well, unfortunately I'm not very well versed in the early history as of yet. Purhaps some of the other Baha'is could help me out with this one.
<Justin> But prisonment, exile, firing squad murders.
<Countess> ok..actually, i dont have to report back with this until wednesday..
<Justin> Oh, ok. If you have any other questions feel free to email me at: jinevill@cybernetics.com.
<Countess> why did he haveto endure that?
<Justin> Because the goverment of that time was scared of His "radical" new teachings.
<Justin> They were very different from the poor standards of that time and this.
<Countess> i see..what did that gov't believe in?
<Justin> The government of 19th centery Persia.
<Justin> Basically, the governemtn was Muslim.
<Justin> However:
<Justin> My Muslim brothers and sisters of that time and place were split into sects and were rather corrupt in my eyes.
<Countess> i think muslim practiced a religion that was into sacrificing or something like that, im not sure, i know they are really stricy!
<Countess> strict that is!
<Justin> Well, I know that all the Muslims I know don't sacrifice.
<Justin> I know that isn't part of there teachings.
<Countess> i know they are really strict...i forget what all we talked about today..
<Justin> Sacrifice lives of othes and such, that is. They do sacrifice there time for God, however.
<Justin> And things other than time, but I'm not the proper person to ask about all that.
<Countess> ok.
<Countess> thats alright!
<Countess> :)
<Justin> Anyway. So I hope I helped! Sounds like a neat class.
<Countess> well, i am sorry to have bothered you for your time..
<Countess> i really do appreciate it!!
<Justin> No not at all.
<Countess> you did clear up things for me!
<Justin> Baha'is are happy to share His message with others.
<Countess> i will talk to you later!!
<Justin> ok, bye!
<Countess> nice meeting you! 
<Justin> You too.
<Countess> bye!

<Justin> Well, I think that went pretty well. How about you all? You still there?
<Kuen> Justin, you did a good job.
<Justin> Thanks a lot.
<Kuen> who els is here?
<Justin> He was very nice and proffesional in the way he asked, which helped a lot!
<Justin> Stevet.
<Justin> Kuen: You were on here last time right?
<Kuen> Justin:  Yes 
<Justin> And you are a Baha'i, correct?
<Justin> ok, it's coming back to me. :-)
<Kuen> yes
<Kuen> I think i used the name boogo..
<Justin> oh, yeah. ok.
<Kuen> sound familiar?
<Justin> Yeah, for sure.
<Kuen> From Guam..
<Justin> yeah.
<Stevet> That makes 2 of us!
<Kuen> heard from the others guys who were on last time?
<Justin> Are both of you on the BIRCF mailing list?
<Kuen> I am not sure..and I might..
<Justin> let me chk, hold a sec.
<Stevet> Justin what is BIRCF?
<Justin> Baha'i IRC Fireside.
<Stevet> justin NO 4 me.
<Kuen> We just got connected to IRC about three weeks ago or so..
<Justin> ok. I don't see you, Kuen, on there either.
<Stevet> How du u get on the list?
<Justin> oh, ok. the BIRCF mailing list (just a distribution list at the moment) updates it's Baha'i members with information dealing with IRC firesides.
<Kuen> Could you please add me on the list then..
<Justin> Ask me to add you. :-). I'm the list manager and the coordinator of the BIRCF project (we currently only do these Monday firesides).
<Justin> sure, I'll add you.
<Stevet> Justin add me as well!
<Justin> ok, I'll do it.
<Kuen>  I saw your post twice regarding this IRC fireside.
<Justin> on Baha'i Announce?
<Kuen> yes..

<Justin> Yeah, ok. Dominic Burton used to head up the Project, you may of seen one of his posts too.

<Justin> Hello Ralu!
<ralu> hi
<Justin> How are you doing?

<Kuen> Hi ralu.. remember me..
<Justin> ah, that's too bad.
<Stevet> HI Ralu.

<Kuen> jsutin:  how are the Bahai friends there?
<Justin> where I live, you mean?
<Kuen> yes..
<Justin> Well, here in Charlotte, NC, USA: We have atleast 150 Baha'is and about 60 to 70 active at Feasts.
<Justin> We are on the verge of some major teaching projects.

<Kuen> That's good news...
<Justin> And the Baha'i Youth Workshop here is really do well, and I see it's future in the teaching very bright.
<Justin> Yeah. How about in Guam?
<Kuen> Still preparing for our Christmas Break travel teaching.
<Justin> Oh, yeah. I remember you saying something about that.
<Kuen> how many members in the Workshop?
<Justin> Sounds good. Hope you have great success. What kind of teaching are you planning on doing?
<Justin> About 15 here locallly. 35 in the 2 Workshops in this state.
<Kuen> since most of memebers here are islanders, we are going back to their island to share the message of Baha'u'llah.
<Justin> door to door, fireside, or what?
<Kuen> Ourtarget group are the youths.
<Justin> Great1
<Justin> 1=!
<Kuen> propbely fireside and visiting old friends.
<Justin> Neat. Do you have consolidation problems there and problems with keeping up with beleivers (as we do here)?
<Kuen> and doing public show..
<Kuen> yes, its a common problem world wide and we too are struggling with it.
<Justin> OK. Nice to know that that unfortunately afflicts other communities.
<Kuen> at one point, we had a large member of believer coming in, but we were unable to keep up so it slow down.

<ralu> re
<ralu> stupid phone
<Justin> Hmmm, I've heard stories of in the 1970s, here in the US, when teaching was going full blast, of things like that happening on a large scale.
<Justin> I wasn't around then, though. :-)
<Kuen> we are trying to revive it again, but it's tough.
<Kuen> hi ralu..
<ralu> allah'u'abha 
<Kuen> don't run away :}
<Justin> Yeah, good luck, I know God is with you all.
<ralu> the stupid phone rang and i got a baha'i association meeting in about 15 min we have to fig away of consolidating our new declarants

<jasonsw> hey all
<jasonsw> whats up rachel
<Kuen> hi jasonsw
<ralu> hi jas
<Justin> Hello!
<ralu> the sky jas! :P
<ralu> i finished a midterm *SIGH*
<jasonsw> its raining chickens
<jasonsw> cool, yer late with those mideterms..ours finished 2 wks ago
<ralu> well i have had them every week for the past 2 weeks
<jasonsw> wierd
<ralu> i have two midterms in each class
<jasonsw> is this a fireside?
<jasonsw> so do i rach
<Justin> Well, suposed to be.
<Justin> :-)
<ralu> i am sorry i totally interuped you guys
<Justin> Jason: We had a seeker earlier.
<jasonsw> cool, are we all baha'is?
<Justin> ralu: That's fine.
<jasonsw> ahhh....
<Justin> Yes.
<jasonsw> how was it?
<Kuen> looks like it.
<Justin> I thought it went very well.
<jasonsw> great...are you loggin this?
<jasonsw> logging
<Justin> yes.
<Justin> I'm not releasing them, untill I come to a decision on that.
<Justin> Any comments?
<jasonsw> i see
<ralu> so we have to becarful what we say then eh :)
<jasonsw> btw, has anyone seen yadhira or che on baha'i channels recently?
<ralu> nope
<Justin> heh, well, I don't want it to be like that. That's why I'm not sure if we should be logginf them or not.
<Justin> Nope.
<jasonsw> hmm... whats the reason for logging them>
<ralu> justin man i have been working on getting more pple here
<Justin> To look at the fireside in restrospect and hopefully learn from them.
<jasonsw> we could send out a mass emailing, *wink*
<Justin> ralu: You mean on the IRC firesides? 
<Justin> :-)
<ralu> yah just
-Watchboy:$hobbes.catt.ncsu.edu- hobbes will be going down in about 5 minutes, and will be down for about 30 minutes
<Justin> ralu: Well thanks a lot. I think we'll start advertising in s.r.bahai now.
-Watchboy:$hobbes.catt.ncsu.edu- Have a nice night
<ralu> i mostly end up doing on the spot firesides as the conv comes up
<jasonsw> interesting.  i dont see any problem with it, its all public domain, and netusers are generally pretty savvy to that
<Justin> If you send any ideas or such to me on how you advertised I'll share them with the BIRCF list.
<ralu> justin dude your doing a great job :)
<Justin> I'm going to have to switch servers here, hold a sec.
<Justin> ralu: I really appreciate that!
<Kuen> Certainly, he does..

<ralu> bye jas allah'ua'bha
<ralu> opps :) hehehe!!

<ralu> so kuen how is life?

<Kuen> pretty good so far.
<Kuen> and you.
<ralu> i am ok
<Kuen> what time is it there?
<ralu> haning in there i am in a state of wanting to go pioneering
<ralu> its 19:14

<ralu> what time is it there kuen?
<Kuen> where are you planning to go pioneer?

<ralu> ROOOMMMAAANNNIIIAAA !! :)
<ralu> romania
<Kuen> its about 1:20 PM on Tuesday Nov. 8, 1994
<Kuen> that's sound great..
<Justin1> I've heard some great things, Baha'i wise, coming out of that region in Baha'i International News Service.
<ralu> really what did they say?
<Kuen> Sorry Guys.. I have go split.
<Justin1> Major enrollments due to a summer teaching project.
<Justin1> Allah'u'Abha and thanks Kuen!
<ralu> ok kuen
<Kuen> Bye to you all and Allah'u'Abha..
<ralu> allah'uabha joon
<Kuen> Bye!

<ralu> really just where in romania? do you have it from email?
<ralu> i would love to get a copy of it
<Justin1> BINS is available on WWW (HTTP) do you have access to W3?
<ralu> nope
<ralu> if i do i don't know how to get it
<Justin1> ok, hmmm. I can send you that article ok?
<Justin1> World Wide Web = WWW.
<ralu> cool thanks man
<ralu> i don't think i do
<Justin1> Yeah, no prob. It may be a few days, though, ok?
<ralu> i am anewbie to internet
<ralu> thats cool
<ralu> i totally understand
<Justin1> ok, cool.
<Justin1> How long have you been on "the net"?
<ralu> well i started email in dec
<ralu> and irc since june
<ralu> still learning stuff
<Justin1> oh, ok. Yeah. Do you know what type of system your on?
<Justin1> Unix, VMS, etc?
<ralu> unix
<Justin1> At the unix prompt can you type 'lynx' and load something up?
<Justin1> lynx is the standard Unix WWW text viewer.
<ralu> i have no idea, and i  hate to say this but i have to go to my baha'i meeting
<Justin1> oh, ok. That's cool. Send them my wishes of good luck. Allah'u'Abha and bye.
<ralu> thanks we need it with all the new baha'is we have 
<ralu> allah'u'abha 
<Justin1> That's great! l8r.
<Justin1> New Baha'is that is.

IRC log ended Mon Nov  7 22:22