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Hi all, I've written up a proposal for the comp.infosystems.gemini newsgroup here: https://www.big-8.org/wiki/Comp.infosystems.gemini_RFD. If this is OK with everyone, I would like someone else to post this to news.groups.proposals and to news.groups for discussion and have at least 2 or 3 people reply to the article on news.groups saying that they agree with the proposal and that they would like to see this new newsgroup created. I could do this myself if I need to, but it would be better if someone else from the community were to do this also. If you're new to Usenet, you can see my tutorial on getting started here: https://www.big-8.org/wiki/Tutorials Best Regards, Jason Evans
On Fri, 01 Oct 2021 19:49:28 +0200, Jason Evans wrote: > I've written up a proposal for the comp.infosystems.gemini newsgroup Re-editing the RFD as there were comments in news.groups, I wondered whether it would also make sense to create a merged group for c.i.gopher and c.i.gemini – but lacking a suitable name, it seems not worth to pursue this idea. --- draft below from https://pads.ccc.de/comp-infosystems-gemini-rfd REQUEST FOR DISCUSSION (RFD) This is a formal Request for Discussion (RFD) for the creation of the unmoderated newsgroup: comp.infosystems.gemini NEWSGROUPS LINE: comp.infosystems.gemini Gemini Internet Protocol and Hypertext System RATIONALE: The Gemini community publishes textual content to be served via the Gemini protocol. Linking to other documents Gemini creates a hypertext information system similar to the early World Wide Web. The protocol is not to be extended per definition and community consent. Although any content can be served per Gemini, the community mostly sticks to the default content type text/gemini which offers a limited set of line types to structure the content and link to other resources. The newsgroup would compliment the mailing list and some IRC channels, probably targeting casual readers not wanting to subscribe to a list by mail. Recently, Gemini was mentionend in comp.infosystems.gopher. Compared to Gopher Gemini encrypts content in transport and probably offers easier access to content published by the community due to clients created natively for various operating systems, including graphical and mobile (e.g. Android and iOS), that resemble well-known web browsers. CHARTER: comp.infosystems.gemini covers the Gemini internet protocol and the information space that is created by its community and their tools. MODERATION POLICY: unmoderated
On Sun, 3 Oct 2021 at 00:16, Plain Text <text@sdfeu.org> wrote: > merged group for c.i.gopher and c.i.gemini – but lacking a suitable name "Small-web" or "small-net" are sometimes used, most often to describe a combination browser for these protocols. There's quite a bit of overlap between the communities. -Oliver Simmons (GoodClover)
On Sun, 03 Oct 2021 11:54:39 +0100, Oliver Simmons wrote: > On Sun, 3 Oct 2021 at 00:16, Plain Text <text@sdfeu.org> wrote: >> merged group for c.i.gopher and c.i.gemini – but lacking a … name > > "Small-web" or "small-net" are sometimes used, most often to describe a > combination browser for these protocols. > There's quite a bit of overlap between the communities. Thanks, so true! And so I began to write an RFD document for "Small Scale Hypertext Information Systems" in the same pad (carbon copy below): https://pads.ccc.de/comp-infosystems-gemini-rfd Please, anybody feel free to edit along and/or give other input, also on the name and the byline, and the whole endeavour, of course, as I do not want to diminish the efforts already put into the first RFD process. Shall we post to news.groups to discuss this RFD along the other? Cheers --- alternative/additional rfd for comp.infosystems.small --- REQUEST FOR DISCUSSION (RFD) This is a formal Request for Discussion (RFD) for the creation of the unmoderated newsgroup: comp.infosystems.small NEWSGROUPS LINE: comp.infosystems.small Small Scale Hypertext Information Spaces RATIONALE: comp.infosystems.small The idea for creating the newsgroup comp.infosystems.small originated while drafting an RFD for comp.infosystems.gemini as Gemini has some overlap with Gopher. Both are hypertext systems much more focussed on textual content than the World Wide Web (with its portrayed surveillance capitalism in places) and thus address similar concerns. Here a joint newsgroup for Gopher, Gemini, and similar small infosystems is proposed for the following reasons.
Make me thinking of slowfood vs fastfood... So sloweb :-) freD. ‐‐‐‐‐‐‐ Original Message ‐‐‐‐‐‐‐ On Monday, October 4th, 2021 at 07:09, Plain Text <text@sdfeu.org> wrote: > On Sun, 03 Oct 2021 11:54:39 +0100, Oliver Simmons wrote: > > > On Sun, 3 Oct 2021 at 00:16, Plain Text text@sdfeu.org wrote: > > > > > merged group for c.i.gopher and c.i.gemini – but lacking a … name > > > > "Small-web" or "small-net" are sometimes used, most often to describe a > > > > combination browser for these protocols. > > > > There's quite a bit of overlap between the communities. > > Thanks, so true! And so I began to write an RFD document for "Small Scale > > Hypertext Information Systems" in the same pad (carbon copy below): > > https://pads.ccc.de/comp-infosystems-gemini-rfd > > Please, anybody feel free to edit along and/or give other input, also on > > the name and the byline, and the whole endeavour, of course, as I do not > > want to diminish the efforts already put into the first RFD process. > > Shall we post to news.groups to discuss this RFD along the other? Cheers > > --- alternative/additional rfd for comp.infosystems.small --- > > REQUEST FOR DISCUSSION (RFD) This is a formal Request for Discussion > > (RFD) for the creation of the unmoderated newsgroup: > > comp.infosystems.small > > NEWSGROUPS LINE: > > comp.infosystems.small Small Scale Hypertext Information Spaces > > RATIONALE: comp.infosystems.small > > The idea for creating the newsgroup comp.infosystems.small originated > > while drafting an RFD for comp.infosystems.gemini as Gemini has some > > overlap with Gopher. Both are hypertext systems much more focussed on > > textual content than the World Wide Web (with its portrayed surveillance > > capitalism in places) and thus address similar concerns. Here a joint > > newsgroup for Gopher, Gemini, and similar small infosystems is proposed > > for the following reasons. > > - The existing Gopher and a future Gemini newsgroup do not seem to be or > > get too crowded each. A joint newsgroup would probably not drown in > > traffic, either. > - The joint newsgroup would also invite discussions of related systems or > > communities, e.g. individual or decentralized "small web"/"small net" > > instances such as personal diaries served via http(s) or any other > > protocol. > - A newsgroup not being restricted to a named protocol is thus also open > > for future discussions of yet unknown technological undertakings in > > establishing small or niche communities in information space. > > Currently discussions about small web/net take place in weblogs, gemini > > logs, gopher holes, twtxt, mastodon, IRC, tilde spaces, and elsewhere. > > The newsgroup comp.infosystems.small could be a new common place. > > Oftentimes, the concept also is referred to using the mistyping term > > "smol" instead of "small" like in "smol net", cf. e.g. https:// > > communitywiki.org/wiki/SmolNet > > Upon creating the group comp.infosystems.small, the existing > > comp.infosystems.gopher shall be deleted or merged into > > comp.infosystems.small. > > CHARTER: comp.infosystems.small > > comp.infosystems.small covers information spaces such as hypertext > > systems using internet protocols such as gopher, https, gemini as well as > > the technology and tools created by its various communities' members. > > Binaries should not be posted to the group. > > MODERATION POLICY: unmoderated
Is slowfood the samething as slowcooking? And if I look for such recipies drinking sloe gin does it make it sloeweb? ==================== Jonathan McHugh indieterminacy@libre.brussels October 4, 2021 9:22 AM, "defdefred" <defdefred@protonmail.com> wrote: > Make me thinking of slowfood vs fastfood... > So sloweb :-) > > freD. > > ‐‐‐‐‐‐‐ Original Message ‐‐‐‐‐‐‐ > > On Monday, October 4th, 2021 at 07:09, Plain Text <text@sdfeu.org> wrote: > >> On Sun, 03 Oct 2021 11:54:39 +0100, Oliver Simmons wrote: >> >> On Sun, 3 Oct 2021 at 00:16, Plain Text text@sdfeu.org wrote: >> >>> merged group for c.i.gopher and c.i.gemini – but lacking a … name >> >> "Small-web" or "small-net" are sometimes used, most often to describe a >> >> combination browser for these protocols. >> >> There's quite a bit of overlap between the communities. >> >> Thanks, so true! And so I began to write an RFD document for "Small Scale >> >> Hypertext Information Systems" in the same pad (carbon copy below): >> >> https://pads.ccc.de/comp-infosystems-gemini-rfd >> >> Please, anybody feel free to edit along and/or give other input, also on >> >> the name and the byline, and the whole endeavour, of course, as I do not >> >> want to diminish the efforts already put into the first RFD process. >> >> Shall we post to news.groups to discuss this RFD along the other? Cheers >> >> --- alternative/additional rfd for comp.infosystems.small --- >> >> REQUEST FOR DISCUSSION (RFD) This is a formal Request for Discussion >> >> (RFD) for the creation of the unmoderated newsgroup: >> >> comp.infosystems.small >> >> NEWSGROUPS LINE: >> >> comp.infosystems.small Small Scale Hypertext Information Spaces >> >> RATIONALE: comp.infosystems.small >> >> The idea for creating the newsgroup comp.infosystems.small originated >> >> while drafting an RFD for comp.infosystems.gemini as Gemini has some >> >> overlap with Gopher. Both are hypertext systems much more focussed on >> >> textual content than the World Wide Web (with its portrayed surveillance >> >> capitalism in places) and thus address similar concerns. Here a joint >> >> newsgroup for Gopher, Gemini, and similar small infosystems is proposed >> >> for the following reasons. >> >> - The existing Gopher and a future Gemini newsgroup do not seem to be or >> >> get too crowded each. A joint newsgroup would probably not drown in >> >> traffic, either. >> - The joint newsgroup would also invite discussions of related systems or >> >> communities, e.g. individual or decentralized "small web"/"small net" >> >> instances such as personal diaries served via http(s) or any other >> >> protocol. >> - A newsgroup not being restricted to a named protocol is thus also open >> >> for future discussions of yet unknown technological undertakings in >> >> establishing small or niche communities in information space. >> >> Currently discussions about small web/net take place in weblogs, gemini >> >> logs, gopher holes, twtxt, mastodon, IRC, tilde spaces, and elsewhere. >> >> The newsgroup comp.infosystems.small could be a new common place. >> >> Oftentimes, the concept also is referred to using the mistyping term >> >> "smol" instead of "small" like in "smol net", cf. e.g. https:// >> >> communitywiki.org/wiki/SmolNet >> >> Upon creating the group comp.infosystems.small, the existing >> >> comp.infosystems.gopher shall be deleted or merged into >> >> comp.infosystems.small. >> >> CHARTER: comp.infosystems.small >> >> comp.infosystems.small covers information spaces such as hypertext >> >> systems using internet protocols such as gopher, https, gemini as well as >> >> the technology and tools created by its various communities' members. >> >> Binaries should not be posted to the group. >> >> MODERATION POLICY: unmoderated
Hello, Are you suggesting a "small net" group as well as a Gemini group, or instead of a Gemini group ? :-) A. On 4 October 2021 06:09:31 BST, Plain Text <text@sdfeu.org> wrote: >On Sun, 03 Oct 2021 11:54:39 +0100, Oliver Simmons wrote: > >> On Sun, 3 Oct 2021 at 00:16, Plain Text <text@sdfeu.org> wrote: >>> merged group for c.i.gopher and c.i.gemini – but lacking a … name >> >> "Small-web" or "small-net" are sometimes used, most often to describe a >> combination browser for these protocols. >> There's quite a bit of overlap between the communities. > >Thanks, so true! And so I began to write an RFD document for "Small Scale >Hypertext Information Systems" in the same pad (carbon copy below): >https://pads.ccc.de/comp-infosystems-gemini-rfd > >Please, anybody feel free to edit along and/or give other input, also on >the name and the byline, and the whole endeavour, of course, as I do not >want to diminish the efforts already put into the first RFD process. > >Shall we post to news.groups to discuss this RFD along the other? Cheers > > >--- alternative/additional rfd for comp.infosystems.small --- > >REQUEST FOR DISCUSSION (RFD) This is a formal Request for Discussion >(RFD) for the creation of the unmoderated newsgroup: >comp.infosystems.small > >NEWSGROUPS LINE: > >comp.infosystems.small Small Scale Hypertext Information Spaces > >RATIONALE: comp.infosystems.small > >The idea for creating the newsgroup comp.infosystems.small originated >while drafting an RFD for comp.infosystems.gemini as Gemini has some >overlap with Gopher. Both are hypertext systems much more focussed on >textual content than the World Wide Web (with its portrayed surveillance >capitalism in places) and thus address similar concerns. Here a joint >newsgroup for Gopher, Gemini, and similar small infosystems is proposed >for the following reasons. >* The existing Gopher and a future Gemini newsgroup do not seem to be or >get too crowded each. A joint newsgroup would probably not drown in >traffic, either. >* The joint newsgroup would also invite discussions of related systems or >communities, e.g. individual or decentralized "small web"/"small net" >instances such as personal diaries served via http(s) or any other >protocol. >* A newsgroup not being restricted to a named protocol is thus also open >for future discussions of yet unknown technological undertakings in >establishing small or niche communities in information space. > >Currently discussions about small web/net take place in weblogs, gemini >logs, gopher holes, twtxt, mastodon, IRC, tilde spaces, and elsewhere. >The newsgroup comp.infosystems.small could be a new common place. >Oftentimes, the concept also is referred to using the mistyping term >"smol" instead of "small" like in "smol net", cf. e.g. https:// >communitywiki.org/wiki/SmolNet > > >Upon creating the group comp.infosystems.small, the existing >comp.infosystems.gopher shall be deleted or merged into >comp.infosystems.small. > > >CHARTER: comp.infosystems.small > >comp.infosystems.small covers information spaces such as hypertext >systems using internet protocols such as gopher, https, gemini as well as >the technology and tools created by its various communities' members. > >Binaries should not be posted to the group. > >MODERATION POLICY: unmoderated >
> Is slowfood the samething as slowcooking? > And if I look for such recipies drinking sloe gin does it make it sloeweb? Love It! And I know what it is... Planned to make chestnut cream this evening...
Yes, the idea was one group for Gemini, Gopher, and other "small net" approaches. But I guess establishing a new newsgroup might be easier/more welcome than touching one that exists since decades. Basically the alternative proposal would have been to move/rename c.i.gopher to c.i.small (or any name more suitable). On Mon, 04 Oct 2021 13:02:04 +0100, Alice wrote: > Are you suggesting a "small net" group as well as a Gemini group, or > instead of a Gemini group ? > > On 4 October 2021 06:09:31 BST, Plain Text <text@sdfeu.org> wrote: >>On Sun, 03 Oct 2021 11:54:39 +0100, Oliver Simmons wrote: >> >>> On Sun, 3 Oct 2021 at 00:16, Plain Text <text@sdfeu.org> wrote: >>>> merged group for c.i.gopher and c.i.gemini – but lacking a … name >>> >>> "Small-web" or "small-net" are sometimes used, most often to describe >>> a combination browser for these protocols. >>> There's quite a bit of overlap between the communities. >> >> Here a joint newsgroup for Gopher, Gemini, and similar small >> infosystems is proposed [...] >> >> >>Upon creating the group comp.infosystems.small, the existing >>comp.infosystems.gopher shall be deleted or merged into >>comp.infosystems.small. >> >> >>CHARTER: comp.infosystems.small >> >>comp.infosystems.small covers information spaces such as hypertext >>systems using internet protocols such as gopher, https, gemini as well >>as the technology and tools created by its various communities' members.
‐‐‐‐‐‐‐ Original Message ‐‐‐‐‐‐‐ On Monday, October 4th, 2021 at 00:21, defdefred <defdefred@protonmail.com> wrote: > Make me thinking of slowfood vs fastfood... Al's waiter: (yawn) May I take your order...? Bob: I NEED SLOW FOOD TO GO FAST!!! Al's waiter: ...ha, ha, ha, thats a good one. Hear THAT AL...? Al: ...WHAAT!?! --- The Doctor [412/724/301/703/415/510] WWW: https://drwho.virtadpt.net/ The old world is dying, and the new world struggles to be born. Now is the time of monsters.
> On Oct 3, 2021, at 10:09 PM, Plain Text <text@sdfeu.org> wrote: > > On Sun, 03 Oct 2021 11:54:39 +0100, Oliver Simmons wrote: > >> On Sun, 3 Oct 2021 at 00:16, Plain Text <text@sdfeu.org> wrote: >>> merged group for c.i.gopher and c.i.gemini – but lacking a … name >> >> "Small-web" or "small-net" are sometimes used, most often to describe a >> combination browser for these protocols. >> There's quite a bit of overlap between the communities. > > Thanks, so true! And so I began to write an RFD document for "Small Scale > Hypertext Information Systems" in the same pad (carbon copy below): > https://pads.ccc.de/comp-infosystems-gemini-rfd > > Please, anybody feel free to edit along and/or give other input, also on > the name and the byline, and the whole endeavour, of course, as I do not > want to diminish the efforts already put into the first RFD process. This might be a fantastically premature question, but: Twitter was once a small Ruby on Rails app. Since “small” is a functional definition, does a protocol get booted out of the group if it becomes too popular?
How many people knew where the '#' key was prior to Twitter? How many people knew where the '`' key was prior to Gemini? When your grandparents can find '`' on the keyboard Gemini has mainstreamed - Perhaps they^1 can serve as a tripwire to eject the protocol from the group^2? ^1 Only your grandparents' cognition, nobody elses elders ^2 textual diambiguation wise, group is perhaps a little ambiguous, I had to cross reference again a hash of unknown societies before determining it was (indeed) the RFD Usenet group ==================== Jonathan McHugh indieterminacy@libre.brussels October 5, 2021 5:27 AM, "Nathan Galt" <mailinglists@ngalt.com> wrote: >> On Oct 3, 2021, at 10:09 PM, Plain Text <text@sdfeu.org> wrote: >> >> On Sun, 03 Oct 2021 11:54:39 +0100, Oliver Simmons wrote: >> >>> On Sun, 3 Oct 2021 at 00:16, Plain Text <text@sdfeu.org> wrote: >> >> merged group for c.i.gopher and c.i.gemini – but lacking a … name >>> "Small-web" or "small-net" are sometimes used, most often to describe a >>> combination browser for these protocols. >>> There's quite a bit of overlap between the communities. >> >> Thanks, so true! And so I began to write an RFD document for "Small Scale >> Hypertext Information Systems" in the same pad (carbon copy below): >> https://pads.ccc.de/comp-infosystems-gemini-rfd >> >> Please, anybody feel free to edit along and/or give other input, also on >> the name and the byline, and the whole endeavour, of course, as I do not >> want to diminish the efforts already put into the first RFD process. > > This might be a fantastically premature question, but: > > Twitter was once a small Ruby on Rails app. Since “small” is a functional definition, does a > protocol get booted out of the group if it becomes too popular?
My 2 cents - I do not think people newly interested in Gemini will think of looking in a newsgroup without Gemini in the name. On Tue, 05 Oct 2021 07:00:12 +0000 "Jonathan McHugh" <indieterminacy@libre.brussels> wrote: > How many people knew where the '#' key was prior to Twitter? > How many people knew where the '`' key was prior to Gemini? > > When your grandparents can find '`' on the keyboard Gemini has mainstreamed - Perhaps they^1 can serve as a tripwire to eject the protocol from the group^2? > > > ^1 Only your grandparents' cognition, nobody elses elders > ^2 textual diambiguation wise, group is perhaps a little ambiguous, I had to cross reference again a hash of unknown societies before determining it was (indeed) the RFD Usenet group > > ==================== > Jonathan McHugh > indieterminacy@libre.brussels > > October 5, 2021 5:27 AM, "Nathan Galt" <mailinglists@ngalt.com> wrote: > > >> On Oct 3, 2021, at 10:09 PM, Plain Text <text@sdfeu.org> wrote: > >> > >> On Sun, 03 Oct 2021 11:54:39 +0100, Oliver Simmons wrote: > >> > >>> On Sun, 3 Oct 2021 at 00:16, Plain Text <text@sdfeu.org> wrote: > >> > >> merged group for c.i.gopher and c.i.gemini ? but lacking a ? name > >>> "Small-web" or "small-net" are sometimes used, most often to describe a > >>> combination browser for these protocols. > >>> There's quite a bit of overlap between the communities. > >> > >> Thanks, so true! And so I began to write an RFD document for "Small Scale > >> Hypertext Information Systems" in the same pad (carbon copy below): > >> https://pads.ccc.de/comp-infosystems-gemini-rfd > >> > >> Please, anybody feel free to edit along and/or give other input, also on > >> the name and the byline, and the whole endeavour, of course, as I do not > >> want to diminish the efforts already put into the first RFD process. > > > > This might be a fantastically premature question, but: > > > > Twitter was once a small Ruby on Rails app. Since ?small? is a functional definition, does a > > protocol get booted out of the group if it becomes too popular? --
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