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By u/EileanBharraigh
Posted on November 26, 2017
Hello all. I teach Religious Studies to highschool students and normally do 4 lessons on each religion covering the main beliefs, symbols, buildings, and thoughts on the afterlife. I've been reading up on the Baha'i faith, mostly from http://www.bbc.co.uk/religion/religions/ and the http://www.bahai.org/ website.
I really have two questions that I would like answered and I apologise if these come across as ignorant or rude - they are asked with with an open and curious mind.
How do Bahai's reconcile the differences between the world religions and the manifestations? For example, the Buddha's 8th fold path to Enlightenment is not a belief in God per se but a personal transformative process - a direct contradiction to both Christianity and Islam that are deity focused. I understand that Bahai's believe that the manifestations of God suit different societies at different times but an open contradiction on whether God is real or not seems difficult to reconcile.
Also, the crux of Christianity is the belief that Jesus' proclamation he was the son of God is at odds with Baha'i belief in the unknowability of God. So if you don't believe what Jesus proclaimed himself to be, you must think he was either wrong or a liar and in these two circumstances how can he be a manifestation of God?
Again, apologies if these are ignorant questions that have been answered many times!
u/jwiegley:
I'm not sure we try to reconcile each religion's later institutionalized beliefs with their associated Manifestation of God.
That is, we believe in the divine origin of Christ as a Messenger from God, and the Bible as the spirit of His Teachings, but this doesn't mean we take on the burden of reconciling later Christianity (and its many christologies) with Christ Himself. For example, you can google for "did Christ believe He was God", and see debates between learned Christians on whether He did or didn't think or say this.
In Bahá’í thought, Chris is both God, in relation to humanity, and is not God, in relation to God's Unknowable Essence.
For Buddhism, it's hard to know exactly how much of Buddha's exact words are captured in the centuries-later writings we have. That they evince the spirit of Buddha's message is without a doubt, given their continued efficacy. But what do "God" and "self" and "rebirth" really mean? Did those ideas become overtly flavored by a cultural background that sought to re-explain the concepts in a doctrinal context?
For example, if you read the Kitáb-i-Íqán's description of the true seeker, and how he must purify himself before being capable of recognizing God -- and then squint a bit -- several of the Buddhists ideas about "self" and "God" (i.e., the God of our conceptions) begin to line up quite nicely. The Íqán evens goes into some depth on the ideas of "life", "death", "rebirth" and "resurrection", which make it sound like it's not the ideas the Manifestations ever disagreed on, but humanity's misunderstanding of those conceptions.
u/aibiT4tu:
One perspective from the Baha'i writings is that every conceptualization of God that we have is just that, a conceptualization. As God is an unknowable essence, it's possible that God is conceptualized as a single entity (as in the Abrahamic traditions), as multiple entities (e.g. some indigenous beliefs), or not conceptualized as an entity/being at all. Here's a primary source on this, which also relates to how Baha'is understand the concept of the trinity from Christianity. http://www.bahai.org/library/authoritative-texts/abdul-baha/some-answered-questions/#r=saq_en-27
In application to Buddhism, another principle also applies, that is the independent investigation of truth. Nothing in the writings of Baha'u'llah (as far as I know) specifies which Buddhist writings are authentic. Therefore, it is a scholarly question that any individual may research. For myself, I really don't know what writings of the Buddha are authentic. I see a few possibilities; one is that Buddha explicitly did share a conceptualization of God as a singular being but it was lost over time, and another is that he didn't. Either is fine with me, and wouldn't pose a problem for my faith.
These are good questions and they're deep. There are a number of principles from the Baha'i writings that inform answers to them, and different people have different perspectives. None of these questions are taken negatively. Please don't hesitate to ask!
u/99Kelly:
Happy cake day! 1.) The Bahá'í view is that Buddha was/is a Manifestation of God, who revealed God's message. Some Buddhists later chose to focus on personal transformation and created an atheist Buddhism. 2.) There is no contradiction to Jesus title as the Son of God and God being an unknowable essence.
u/EileanBharraigh:
Thanks for everyones' responses so far; they are thought-provoking and I appreciate the considered words you have given me.
[Deleted]:
I appreciate your inquiry. It is thoughtful and honestly, perfectly understandable why you would have those questions.
I am a Baha'i but also consider myself a Christian. Personally I have felt my belief in Jesus led me to Baha'u'llah. Now I believe they are one and the same. In the Book of Matthew, Jesus says "My words will never pass away." Combine this with the teachings the churches provided me about the resurrection and what it meant to be the Son, I felt somewhat of an inner conflict. I felt there was this expectation for Jesus to come back, but the expectations taught for His 2nd coming could never be met, especially if we compare the actual life and teachings of Jesus with the expectations of His physical life in this world. It felt impossible. Either He would come and no one would no it, or He would be so obviously magnificent not a single human would deny belief in Him. This bothered me for quite sometime to where I took a break from visiting churches and wanted to explore the answers I sought elsewhere.
Eventually I had a rather strong dream, followed by a couple days of clarity. During this period I felt I was taught things I had never read before in any book, sacred or secular. The most important thing I was taught was Jesus was not God in His complete form, just a glimpse, and that the purpose of mankind's evolution was to eventually be as connected to God as He was. As the Book of John says, we are all capable of being sons.
After this couple day period, my clarity gave way to my normal condition, and I sought to learn if anyone else taught this knowledge. After a few years I came across the Hidden Words by Baha'u'llah. I felt immediately this came directly from God. My soul lit up completely. Within a week I found a local Baha'i community whereupon a friend recommended I read the Kitab-i-Iqan (The Book of Certitude). It was there where I found many of the principles I felt I learned before in my days of clarity, but when I would revisit the Gospels, I felt I could understand the teachings of Jesus Christ.
Today, I believe Baha'u'llah, while not having the station of Son, is also a son of God. I actually believe Baha'u'llah to have the station of Father, although He is not God Himself. I also believe Baha'u'llah is what Jesus promised when He taught His disciples He would come back. Sure, there is a new name but the Revelations in spirit are the same. You can feel the same Holy Spirit working through both the Gospels and Baha'u'llah's Writings.
We mustn't get caught up in the uniqueness of names to understand the Spirit never dies, God is everywhere in spirit and energy, and because of this, operates in time and space much more differently than we can observe or even imagine. It is because of this I believe God is unknowable although He is gracious enough to allow me to witness portions of Him through Jesus, Baha'u'llah, the Bab, and the others I have come to know. It may have been the body of Jesus which was crucified, but it was the Spirit of all the Manifestations which felt those stakes and the blind hate within the hearts of the Romans and Jews of those days. Muhammad felt it. Buddha felt it. Moses felt it. Baha'u'llah felt it.
"Thinkest thou that We fear thy cruelty? Know thou and be well assured that from the first day whereon the voice of the Most Sublime Pen was raised betwixt earth and heaven We offered up Our souls, and Our bodies, and Our sons, and Our possessions in the path of God, the Exalted, the Great, and We glory therein amongst all created things and the Concourse on high. Unto this testify the things which have befallen Us in this straight Path. By God! Our hearts were consumed, and Our bodies were crucified, and Our blood was spilt, while Our eyes were fixed on the horizon of the loving-kindness of their Lord, the Witness, the All-Seeing." (Lawh-i-Burhan, (Tablet of the Proof) - Baha'u'llah)
u/roguevalley:
Great questions! The authoritative answers to these and similar questions are found in a book called Some Answered Questions, which contains the responses of `Abdu'l-Bahá, son of Baha'u'llah. http://reference.bahai.org/en/t/ab/SAQ/
u/seedingserenity:
I really like what u/jwiegley had to say I wanted to add a few of my own thoughts.
I wanted to add that this Baha'i library piece talks about the direct connections between the Baha'i Faith and Budhism in a good point by point way: https://bahai-library.com/momen_encyclopedia_buddhism (or google Bahai faith vs budhism and find the bahai-library.com reference). I think that answers your question nicely and better than I could.
On the Christian perspective of Jesus declaring himself the son of God, Bahá'u'lláh tells us many times in the writings (as do others) that when we read the spiritual texts, we must view them through a spiritual lens and that one of the times we will struggle most with spiritual writings is when we try to take them literally.
Because the Bible has been passed down, converted from oral to written language, translated, and then revised throughout its history, I believe there's been plenty of time for Jesus' words to be shifted in what he said versus what we're understanding today. (Bible scholars have a very different and deeper understanding of the Bible than the general public). So when I hear Jesus proclaiming himself the Son of God, I see it as his way of making an analogy to those people at that time that he has a divine connection with God and is bringing a renewal/update of God's message to the world for his day. Similarly we are all children of God and all have divine connections (our souls) that make us special in comparison to the mineral, plant, and animal realms.
If you look carefully at the Christian community, there are many denominations that fight over the station of Christ and what exactly he is (son of God, God himself, the trinity, etc). Because not even the Christian community itself can come to a consensus, I see this as a spiritual issue to be resolved by the individual. Personally, for me, I recognize that Christ is a manifestation of God, he's special, and my limited understanding tops out there. Personally I have a hard time believing that everything that is "the unknowable essence of God" would fit all of itself into a mortal form for a few decades and let the universe run itself. I prefer to believe that he was much more like Bahá'u'lláh, a mortal, sent from God with a special connection, that was able to be a conduit in helping us continue to grow and evolve. It sounds like you connect more with the idea that Jesus was more than that. If that works for you, Awesome! The thing I love about the Baha'i Faith is that it's all about your own spiritual journey and it's up to you to deepen your understanding and connection with God.
The Baha'i Faith is fortunate that Bahá'u'lláh came at a time when recorded history was prevalent. I'm excited to know that in the future, more messengers will be sent and we'll have video and audio recordings, heck, we'll probably have 3D virtual reality recordings of them and people in the future will probably be picking apart that manifestation's gestures, heart rate, blood pressure, and micro expressions to try to gain some insight into what can only be interpreted spiritually.
I would encourage you to keep asking these kinds of questions, keep asking for quotes and references and books to read. While others can lend you insight, ultimately it's up to you to find your truth and understanding. Abdul'baha said that we go through three stages of being able to teach our faiths: 1, we are excited but know nothing, so we tell general ideas without detail. 2, we study the writings but have not memorized them, so while we can elaborate on our understanding, we also communicate through our own filter (like a game of telephone). 3, we memorize the writings and in response to questions are able to give direct quotes, allowing the questioner to interpret the writings themselves. I'm at a 2, but I'm working on #3. I hope you continue to teach this class and do what you can to encourage its growth in your school system, state, country and the rest of the world.
These links may also help with the part about Christ: http://bahaiblog.net/site/2013/12/the-station-of-jesus-christ-in-the-bahai-faith/ https://bahai-library.com/stockman_jesus_bahai_writings
u/huntingisland:
The Manifestations are Divine educators, they come to humanity from the transcendent Source of all reality and help us align into a more proper relationship with that Source. In doing so they bring the message as appropriate to the vocabulary and culture of the people at the place and time of their appearance.
For example, the culture of Israel at the time of the appearance of the Lord Christ was very different from the time of Moses. Therefore, Jesus altered the Mosaic laws of divorce and the Sabbath to fit the needs of His day. It isn't that God changed, it's that our human social context changes and therefore the social teachings of religion change.
Words come to have meanings based on specific cultural contexts. We as human beings are incapable of even understanding the whole of material reality, much less the Ultimate Reality which we call God.
Gautama Buddha came to a culture steeped very small and immature ideas of a universe of rivalrous and limited deities. Rather than associating the Creator of the universe with those woefully limited concepts, the Buddha instead spoke of the Unconditioned and the Ground of all being. That is not very different from what Christians mean by saying God is transcendent, for example: https://www.gotquestions.org/God-transcendent.html . Baha'is are equally at home with those notions, in our own Faith God is both "closer... than [our] life-vein" and an "unfathomable mystery".
Regarding Christ's sayings about His relationship with the Father, Baha'is would uphold them all as true and valid. As Baha'u'llah wrote:
"Were any of the all-embracing Manifestations of God to declare: “I am God”, He, verily, speaketh the truth, and no doubt attacheth thereto. For it hath been repeatedly demonstrated that through their Revelation, their attributes and names, the Revelation of God, His names and His attributes, are made manifest in the world…" - Kitab-i-Iqan
[Deleted]:
Thanks for asking questions. [BTW My mother (now retired for a number of years) was one of the earliest high school teachers in the US to develop and teach world religions in high school in the 1970s. ]
On the Baha'i view of Jesus, beyond the discussion in Some Answered Questions at http://www.bahai.org/library/authoritative-texts/abdul-baha/some-answered-questions/ Chapters 17 to 27 for questions and answers about the questions you are asking, you might also look to: https://bahai-library.com/stockman_jesus_bahai_writings (This is a discussion by Dr. Stockton, who teaches Introduction to Christianity in religious studies.) https://bahai.works/Lights_of_Guidance/Christ (some answers to some questions about what the Baha'i teachings are regarding Jesus.
On the Buddhist subjects: https://bahai-library.com/momen_encyclopedia_buddhism (Dr. Momen's discussion on the subject.) https://www.bahaiphilosophy.com/buddhism-and-the-baha-i-writings.html (Presentation on the subject of Buddhism and the Baha'i Faith in 2007 by Ian Kluge.) "The Buddha was a Manifestation of God, like Christ, but His followers do not possess His authentic Writings." (Shoghi Effendi, Lights of Guidance, p. 501)
---- My understanding and some general thoughts:
Abdu'l-Baha gave a number of talks about reconciling the religions when he visited North America in 1912. He discussed that literal interpretations and superstitions sometimes developed in religion. Over time many teachings and misunderstandings developed in the prior faiths but the essential teachings often remained intact, the Golden Rule (the we should prefer others to ourselves), prayer and meditation (which Buddha taught), and common promises of future Messengers and a future time of human development and peace are common in all these faiths.
Abdu'l-Baha mentioned Buddha as one of the Messengers of God in his talks. In Buddhism, the Baha'i tests (as well as historical analysis and evidence) suggest that much of the original teachings spoken of by Buddha have not been retained. But Buddha did teach the same concepts and principle. My understanding is that His Message de-emphasized the Hindu concept of God and idol worship of the many forms of Gods' which was later mistakenly confused with atheism, but, if you look at what Buddha actually reportedly taught it is much like the other major religions. Additionally, Buddha foretold of a future Buddha, the Maitreya (Amit-Abha) who would be a Universal Buddha Whose Message would eventually bring peace to the world and unite the world. That is the same Message.
As for Jesus being the son of God, in one sense this is true in that He was the representative of God on earth and spoke on God's behalf. Jesus sometimes spoke in the voice of God or as the Messenger of God. When He spoke in this manner it was as though He was God. However, in a literal sense, it would not make much sense for Jesus to be the son of God. God is beyond time and space as we know it and could not possibly approach humans. This is discussed in the Hebrew Bible, as well (Exodus 33 and elsewhere); the ancient Jewish theology has been that God is so beyond us that no human could look about God and live, not even the Messenger (Moses). Thus, the term and concept is meant to be symbolic; Jesus is the one true Son of God as we are all the children of God. [This concept BTW was what I was taught as a young Christian (considering going into the ministry) as well.] Jesus Himself once said, "Why dost thou call me good, no one is good but the Father." Similarly, Jesus suggested that no one, not even the Son, knew the future time of the "end" but the Father. In this sense, Jesus clearly distinguished His person from God and as beneath God when He spoke as Jesus, the human being. Jesus prayed to God and reportedly cried out to God while on the cross. The same is true of Baha'u'llah BTW. At times, Baha'u'llah speaks as though God; at other times, as though the Messenger of God; and at other times as Baha'u'llah the person (“When I contemplate, O my God, the relationship that bindeth me to Thee, I am moved to proclaim to all created things ‘verily I am God!’; and when I consider my own self, lo, I find it coarser than clay!” http://reference.bahai.org/en/t/bic/SB/sb-14.html Baha'is acknowledge many miracles of Jesus (including the immaculate conception) but suggest that some may not be taken literally.