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How does it happen? How does a community of generally well-mannered people become a zoo full of vandals that requires hardcore policing, with automatic weapons?
You could blame criminals and build higher walls and get bigger guns. But I think it is exactly the cause of enshitification.
People inherently want to be a part of their community. We are social animals. And if we are rejected and have no hope, we apply whatever skills we have to express our frustration at damaging the system we have, be vandalism, theft, or just tossing garbage onto the sidewalk.
We are told that it's not up to us to shape our society. We should 'vote' for these wiser men who will take our money and redistribute it justly. Our participation ends there. Oh, we can also bitch about things. These are our freedoms.
But the world is not ours. And the elected officials are completely, shamelessly corrupt, raiding the treasury in plain sight.
So, who can blame the guy spitting on the sidewalk after a day of slaving for Amazon? Do we need more militarized police to enforce basic behavior?
The more walls and police we see, the more obvious it is that we are cattle. The more likely it is that crime will increase. The more likely we are to arm ourselves. Nothing good can come of it.
Here in Gemini-land, we are escaping the enshitification of the Web (and perhaps, the world). It is our space, we don't spit on floors and we don't need conspicuous high security to police us.
I hope those of us who are building out the infrastructure and applications here on Gemini do not blindly repeat the mistakes of the big web. We must remember that what we are building is for our neighborhood. Being open and convivial to all is the priority.
Some security measures are necessary, to be sure. But it is absolutely necessary for it not to be in the way of the honest neighbor. Otherwise we will wake up to see a smaller but just-as-crappy version of the web.
May 11 · 3 months ago · 👍 ResetReboot, mediocregopher, Minko
Gemini has existed for a while now but still remains well-mannered, atleast where I've went so far. People here can behave however they want to, but choose to behave nicely. There are no restrictions as to what you can say even on something like Bubble, as far as I'm aware. I guess Gemini just attracts a different kind of people.
🚀 stack [OP] · May 11 at 18:59:
@eddos: I found out that people here found me talking about american politics objectionable, and even moved my post to a separate topic (for easier silencing I suppose). Amusing considering I am explicitly not taking sides, but rather despise all politics and corrupt politicians! But yes, it is possible to self-sensor on subjects that are upsetting to others - my goal is certainly not to upset my neighbors... On the other hand, I don't really want people's opinions suppressed just because they are out of alignment with some particular group.
I do recall clseibold causing quite a stir around here. the reaction from the community was so much so that they ended up leaving both bbs and station (at least I think it was the case), and flairs to be created for such cases on bbs.
so there are *some* controls, for the centralized portions of gemini at least.
😎 flipperzero · May 12 at 00:01:
I believe the clseibold thing has less to do with any subjectively viewed ‘unfavorable’ interaction or instigation so much as it was more to do with a sort of personal ethical dilemma regarding continuing interaction in tandem with what, as I observed, CL seemed to find as intolerable ‘misconceptions’ or inconsistent ‘contradicting harmful’ sentiments in the community that it was in their interest to not continue their attendance around these parts any longer (albeit, while continuing their own small net efforts).
That said, whether or not I agree with that rhetoric, I wish them all the best. Wanted to address that real quick since I seen the response, thought might as well.
😎 flipperzero · May 12 at 00:15:
I have my own thoughts on this topic btw which I’ll share later more, but for now in brief I will say:
IDK about referring to persecuted oppressed peoples responding out of desperation given their conditions and underprivileged circumstances as “violent” or implying they need to be controlled via dystopian corporal force, however, with all that being described in hyperbolic satire I’m sure; those conditions in of themselves are definitely the catalyst for a bad situation getting worse, already made bad by the efforts of class and racial divide, cultural and property segregation, gentrification, and marginalization by being prioritized lower than other fiscal, ethnic backgrounds. This is deliberate.
@stack: Yeah, in the Code of Conduct it says that US politics should stay in its relevant subspace. Maybe it's not exactly "silencing." Atleast on Gemini capsules are actually discoverable unlike the WWW where you will keep going to the same 5 or 6 websites even when using a search engine. Gemini's nature makes it harder to silence others I guess, especially if they're hosting their own capsule and not on a centralized server like Bubble.
🚀 stack [OP] · May 12 at 19:33:
@eddos I didn't at all mean that I was silenced -- only that the entire US politics topic could be easily muted if someone doesn't want it. In fact they could still see my other posts, which is a heck of a lot better than leaving the bbs or just muting all my posts (which is also an option). It's a good thing.
🚀 stack [OP] · May 12 at 19:36:
And really, everyone has the option of just ignoring someone's posts instead of getting all up in arms and insisting they should shut up.
@stack "And really, everyone has the option of just ignoring someone's posts instead of getting all up in arms and insisting they should shut up."
Bingo... We have a winner. I was part of that mess. that is an extremely simple concept. Trying to control the narrative sours folks from the whole Gemini protocol it's self. Which is not fair to those who work hard to try and make Gemini work. Alienation is very unproductive.
@blah_blah_blah Well that was a great long explanaion why Gemini should be a micromanaged bias club with only five apporoved (good old boy) members. Sounds not much different than the clear web. Good for you! Keep it to yourself then! Make sure no one wants to come and play! :)
🚀 stack [OP] · May 14 at 01:33:
@Minko: is that sarcasm? That's not what I got from @blah_blah_blah's post...
@stack: it is a long list of eight reasons to excuse Gemini why Gemini is the way it is with only five "regular"users. As a current clear web domain owner, developer, and moderator since my own server days on usenet I have found it to be more succinct than that. Simply put, don't run folks off from your project with trivial emotional stuff. It is just plain unproductive in the whole. It will die from lack of participation.
🚀 stack [OP] · May 14 at 03:14:
@Minko: totally agree with your conclusion, but still don't understand why you interpret that post as an excuse for Gemini with 5 users! It looks rather reasonable and positive. Slower turnaround, check. Text-positive, check. Nostalgic for old Internet, check. Sick of main net, check. Smol, check. Bias slower to spread, check. Free to post, check. No evil leader, check. What is it it that you find so objectionable? Am I missing some subtext?
@stack: Zeronet is now down to about three regular users because of their personal fetish micromanagement and thumbs on tyranny. The personal hang ups have to go if Gemini is to survive.
Like you said, take some self responsiblity and just ignore things. Why insist on sinking the whole ship for personal trivial hang ups? It is unproductive for Gemini as a whole... :)
@stack: While I agree U.S. politic SHOULD have it's own subspace let me share a historical story. I was a mod in a forum years ago and there was a whole bunch of users asking to put the "drunks" over in their own forum so they would not be bothered. What happened? All those who complained about the drunks ended up spending all their time in the drunk forum harrassing the drunks...
This is the reality of how it really works when you are dealing with human nature. So you have to separate "domain" interests from "content". lol
🚀 stack [OP] · May 14 at 03:46:
@Minko, pls clarify: is 3xblah running zeronet? I am still missing something here.
@stack, as you know the creator nofish is gone. He disapeared long ago. Since they have a couple of forks running. But seriously, they are so micromanaged I had to leave. Burnt me out on the protocol altogether. I Recognise the user name, but haven't been there for years now so I honstly cannot say what his role there is...
@stack: Even worse... I caught them dumping malicious stuff in my box because I "dared" to be opinionated against their predisposed narrative.
🚀 stack [OP] · May 14 at 04:03:
And yes, sadly there are people here just waiting for someone to question anything left-leaning, and pounce viciously. Criticism of capitalism is fine, even expected. Really, I just don't like idiocy and corruption, left or right.
🚀 stack [OP] · May 14 at 04:06:
I guess I haven't been paying much attention to that drama...
@stack:
"I guess I haven't been paying much attention to that drama..."
This was several years ago. I think I might have met you over there. Midnight Cafe? And the Tech site? Is that you?
@stack:
"Really, I just don't like idiocy and corruption, left or right."
Same here... There is a place for it and sometimes a place not for it. But in the whole it is not the end of the world to discuss it and have a personal opinion about it. We are all wrong if they are still getting away with it... They LOVE the division.
🚀 stack [OP] · May 14 at 04:18:
No, that was someone who just looks like me... Never been there.
@stack
"No, that was someone who just looks like me... Never been there."
Lol. Ok... sorry. :)