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Re: "Object-orientation and other dumb ideas"
In: s/Stories-from-the-Interwebs
There was a low point in my life when I started studying for a Java certification test, because it really looked like I wasn't going to get any work without it in NYC...
Jun 07 · 2 months ago
Yeah I agree, the language should be multi-paradigm, tho, Smalltalk is interesting, and Self too. I understand Self takes the everything-is-an-object to the n-degree. Java is a place north of me as far as I am concerned. Sun produced some nice things, but a high order language VM, no, Smalltalk did that better.
I thought I understood OOP when I started learning C++, it was exciting, then I realised C++ was a dumpster fire, it's multiply inheirtance, polymorphism, and generics were total crap, these are important abstractions for OOP, and C++ could not provide a decent language feature of any. Many years later, I picked up some books by Grady Booch on Ada, and OOP really crystalised for then. Ada provides those abstractions in the language, and it is all static compile time, unless you are referencing the root type (Class in Ada terms), like Oberon, you can avoid the overhead of the method table loopup.
Yeah, Pascal should be the first language to learn in an educational setting, it sets the bar high, typed, fast compile times, and code often works without changes from generation to generation, this minimises cognitive load, and allows the student to focus on what is important.
🚀 stack [OP/mod] · Jun 08 at 04:05:
I was obsessed with Self for many years, and eventually got to play with it. Sadly Sun hired Ungar and pretty much killed further development. Many amazing things from Self -- compiled polymorphic caches and a very innovative garbage collector wound up in Java's JIT compiler.
Self is like Smalltalk on drugs. You can use any object as a prototype and add slots, and everything just works. Things get weird fast, and you have to come up with all kinds of ways to keep inheritance from biting you.
I kind of loved it, but in the end, it's really hard to get anything done with it. After a while I missed the simplicity of Smalltalk (which now has bytecode interpreters that use Self tech).
I spent a couple of years writing a language that was Self-like, but instead of individual slots you mixed and matched interfaces, or groups of slots. It actually worked a lot better than Self conceptually. Eventually I ran out of steam and money, like so many of my great ideas that no one cares about.
I spent a couple of years writing a language that was Self-like, but instead of individual slots you mixed and matched interfaces, or groups of slots. It actually worked a lot better than Self conceptually. Eventually I ran out of steam and money, like so many of my great ideas that no one cares about.
Wow that sounds awesome, unfortunate about the lack of steam and money. I love interfaces, and Smalltalks multiple inhiertance does get scary (like C++'s) for sure.
There's something you don't like? Call it stupid idea and social contagion. Add some out of topic hot takes.
🌒 s/Stories-from-the-Interwebs
Object-orientation and other dumb ideas — Daniel Lemire has posted some great articles and is always interesting to read. Here is his short take on OOP, a stupid idea based on nothing that went so viral that opposing it would cost you your job, your friends, and your reputation. Includes a guide on how to spot these brain viruses as they spread near you. Look around and spot some current idiocies around you, and post your observations here, if you dare!
💬 stack [mod] · 19 comments · 1 like · Jun 05 · 2 months ago