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@stack "And really, everyone has the option of just ignoring someone's posts instead of getting all up in arms and insisting they should shut up."
Bingo... We have a winner. I was part of that mess. that is an extremely simple concept. Trying to control the narrative sours folks from the whole Gemini protocol it's self. Which is not fair to those who work hard to try and make Gemini work. Alienation is very unproductive.
May 13 · 8 weeks ago
🚀 blah_blah_blah · May 13 at 23:16:
There's nothing special about Geminispace. There's no reason it could not go sour. @skyjake recently discussed a troll spamming BBS with racist usernames. It could happen again. Jsread says his capsule went down because a single crawler effectively DDOS'd it. I bet 90% of capsules could be so abused. Gemini servers are not sophisticated. I bet 10 bad actors working in tandem could tear Geminispace apart. Add Chat-GPT style AI into the mix and you probably only need 2. It will happen one day, and Gemini will have to change to survive.
As for people refraining from bad behavior, well, I think it's a few things.
First, most capsules don't accept replies, so you have to respond via another channel, none of which line up precisely with the target. The aggregators will attempt to line up replies, but it's not assured, and only those who use those aggregators will discover them. So this means that what might have turned into a heated debate dissipates naturally. Something may be said, but the likelihood of the heated reply receiving its own reply is much less than on even the simplest forum or newspaper somments section. It creates an interesting and unique atmosphere where people who are paying attention understand what's going on but have no assured way of adding heat, while casual observers don't even know something is going on. There have been a few times when I read something that pissed me off and there was no way to immediately reply, so I didn't.
Second, Gemini is hostile to casuals who are turned off by text. The average internet user is looking for red meat to sink their teeth into. They want the latest news headline to get angry over, or a picture of something sensational, or a video with someone dancing in it or shouting about something or other. Text is boring, and raises the bar for participation. I won't say it's an IQ thing, but it's an IQ thing.
Third, people nostalgic for the early internet are older. We're talking about a style of communication that was relevant 25 years ago. I bet the average age in Geminispace is 35+, and being so the average user is less impulsive.
Fourth, the people who come here are sick of what the Internet has become. They don't want to repeat the same mistakes, whether their own or those of others. They are more thoughtful in how they address problems, and they don't want to start any.
Fifth, few people = few problems = manageable problems = don't see problems = don't want to start problems.
Sixth, people just assume that other people are participating for the reasons they are participating, and instinctively extend in their imagination a sense of community and belonging to others, with whom they imagine they share important characteristics. So long as underlying contradictions aren't allowed to rise to collective awareness and solidify, a community can be at peace. When people post things like "in this most important election year ever, when the orange hand of fascism is knocking at our door, Geminispace needs to circle the wagons against the bad voters, and all their belief, which I copied off of Twitter" we're getting close. Thankfully, for all the reasons given above, these sentiments tend to remain in place, and do not become a purity test forced upon the general population.
Seventh, most people in Geminispce can post as long (or as short) a post as they feel explains their point of view, which reduces (a) the potential for being misunderstood, and (b) the pathological economy of sniping through witty repartee as we see especially on Twitter, to the detriment of the whole world.
Having said all that, I would like to add in conclusion that I protest the mention of a particular individual's name as if it served as the best example of the problem of "enshitification" in Geminispace. One of the things I dislike most about the Dying Overworld is the constant hounding of individuals, the petty dirtying of names, the wanton destructions of reputations, the dogpiling, the cancellations, the spurious accusations -- often under cover of THE MOST VIRTUOUS IDEOLOGY EVER CONCEIVED IN HUMAN HISTORY -- with a vainglorious lack of forgiveness that proves ultimately it has no virtue whatsoever. And so...
Eighth, there isn't YET a scarlet letter in Geminispace. Nobody yet has raised themselves up as the moral authority of the community who gets to decide who is in and who is out. And we shouldn't start seeking such leadership now. The one relevant incident I heard about hasn't been repeated. Let's see how long the Virtuous Busibodies can hold themselves back from making the world a "better" place. I would say this is the greatest danger.
@blah_blah_blah Well that was a great long explanaion why Gemini should be a micromanaged bias club with only five apporoved (good old boy) members. Sounds not much different than the clear web. Good for you! Keep it to yourself then! Make sure no one wants to come and play! :)
🚀 stack [OP] · May 14 at 01:33:
@Minko: is that sarcasm? That's not what I got from @blah_blah_blah's post...
@stack: it is a long list of eight reasons to excuse Gemini why Gemini is the way it is with only five "regular"users. As a current clear web domain owner, developer, and moderator since my own server days on usenet I have found it to be more succinct than that. Simply put, don't run folks off from your project with trivial emotional stuff. It is just plain unproductive in the whole. It will die from lack of participation.
🚀 stack [OP] · May 14 at 03:14:
@Minko: totally agree with your conclusion, but still don't understand why you interpret that post as an excuse for Gemini with 5 users! It looks rather reasonable and positive. Slower turnaround, check. Text-positive, check. Nostalgic for old Internet, check. Sick of main net, check. Smol, check. Bias slower to spread, check. Free to post, check. No evil leader, check. What is it it that you find so objectionable? Am I missing some subtext?
@stack: Zeronet is now down to about three regular users because of their personal fetish micromanagement and thumbs on tyranny. The personal hang ups have to go if Gemini is to survive.
Like you said, take some self responsiblity and just ignore things. Why insist on sinking the whole ship for personal trivial hang ups? It is unproductive for Gemini as a whole... :)
@stack: While I agree U.S. politic SHOULD have it's own subspace let me share a historical story. I was a mod in a forum years ago and there was a whole bunch of users asking to put the "drunks" over in their own forum so they would not be bothered. What happened? All those who complained about the drunks ended up spending all their time in the drunk forum harrassing the drunks...
This is the reality of how it really works when you are dealing with human nature. So you have to separate "domain" interests from "content". lol
🚀 stack [OP] · May 14 at 03:46:
@Minko, pls clarify: is 3xblah running zeronet? I am still missing something here.
@stack, as you know the creator nofish is gone. He disapeared long ago. Since they have a couple of forks running. But seriously, they are so micromanaged I had to leave. Burnt me out on the protocol altogether. I Recognise the user name, but haven't been there for years now so I honstly cannot say what his role there is...
@stack: Even worse... I caught them dumping malicious stuff in my box because I "dared" to be opinionated against their predisposed narrative.
🚀 stack [OP] · May 14 at 04:03:
And yes, sadly there are people here just waiting for someone to question anything left-leaning, and pounce viciously. Criticism of capitalism is fine, even expected. Really, I just don't like idiocy and corruption, left or right.
🚀 stack [OP] · May 14 at 04:06:
I guess I haven't been paying much attention to that drama...
@stack:
"I guess I haven't been paying much attention to that drama..."
This was several years ago. I think I might have met you over there. Midnight Cafe? And the Tech site? Is that you?
@stack:
"Really, I just don't like idiocy and corruption, left or right."
Same here... There is a place for it and sometimes a place not for it. But in the whole it is not the end of the world to discuss it and have a personal opinion about it. We are all wrong if they are still getting away with it... They LOVE the division.
🚀 stack [OP] · May 14 at 04:18:
No, that was someone who just looks like me... Never been there.
@stack
"No, that was someone who just looks like me... Never been there."
Lol. Ok... sorry. :)
Enshitification — How does it happen? How does a community of generally well-mannered people become a zoo full of vandals that requires hardcore policing, with automatic weapons? You could blame criminals and build higher walls and get bigger guns. But I think it is exactly the cause of enshitification. People inherently want to be a part of their community. We are social animals. And if we are rejected and have no hope, we apply whatever skills we have to express our frustration at damaging...