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I was looking into longer range LoRa antennas and they are cheap, really. AliExpress has some for £3-£5. Even a large, 110cm 8dbi antenna can be had for £18. You can get decent range out of those, especially if you have direct line of sight. The simpler, 2dbi antennas do look a bit like WiFi antennas, but they are for a different wavelength.
May 03 · 2 months ago
As far as I know LoRa has some VERY low bandwidth (250bit/s - 11kbit/s) and there are some regulations at least here in germany that you may only use 1% of the capacity.
1% means that you may only send one second out of hundred. LoRa is mainly for sending short GPS positions or some other sensor data.
I did my research because I wanted to use LoRa for the next ROOPHLOCH challenge, but it seems it's too low bandwidth even for gemini.
I did it in python with the ignition and meshtastic librairies, i build a simple gateway who split the gemini page in smaller messages (200 characters) because of limitation.
I configure lora device at mediumfast (3.5 kbps). Take somes time to transfert but feasable. I did it without a gopher client and also without optimisation, just a proof of concept. Need a lot more test in different environment and need gemini capsule with less text by page.
I'm working on it !!!!!!
Cotteux, very interesting!
what limitation do you mean: speed? size? why do you need to split the page to 200 byte pieces?
The meshtastic protocol is limited to 230 characters to send and receive a message. I also made some test at longfast and it's working good. A small page take around 30 to 120 secondes without optimisation.
🌲 Half_Elf_Monk [OP] · May 17 at 17:26:
@Cotteux - that is SO COOL. Do you have the code uploaded anywhere (github, etc)? 3.5kbps isn't much, but again as a proof of concept that's excellent. A 200 character message size sounds (to me) like a pretty large "packet" of information. How resistant are each of these messages/packets to data loss along the way? Any updates since you've last tried? I'd love to see a video or something of how it worked.
@norayr - Thank you for the generous remembering of what LoRa/meshtastic does. fwiw, I was wondering whether such a physical layer could be built/written on top of those radios. The OSI lists seven "layers," on which the internet is built. I'm wondering if a mesh of LoRa radios can be made to replace the bottom two (maybe three) layers. If each of the devices can mesh by: 'serving' data to reqestors, 'locating' (data-request-wise) specific devices, or 'relaying' requests/responses to devices they can't find, then couldn't that become something like IP addresses?
From there, existing code could be plugged in to make layesr 4-7 work. Because LoRa is inherently slower (I was assuming 56.6k equivalent, though it looks like that's optimistic), the web that would run on that hardware/mesh/layers would have to be slower. That's not a bad thing. You'd connect to the capsules that were physically closer to you a lot faster than the stuff far away.
— gemi.dev/cgi-bin/wp.cgi/view?OSI%20model
@olav - reticulum.network looks really interesting, thank you! From what I can tell, it's a chat/comms application for the sort of mesh networks I was thinking of. Perhaps their model is a bit more realistic in that it doesn't rely on only one kind of radio. I was hoping to host/serve smol capsules over that same kind of mesh.
@fab - wow that's unfortunate. 1% really won't work for this application. :/
@requiem - This is good to know. I'd not heard of ESP's, and I didn't realize antennae were so cheap. Out of curiousity, what kind of speeds are you getting on average with your LoRa devices?
🐉 gyaradong [mod] · May 19 at 11:49:
I feel like "Gemini" (by Gemini I really mean the set of smolweb protocols which are aligned to Gemini) needs a sort of "reverse mail" mode, where servers co-operate to fetch data which might be available intermittently. Once that's the case, I think LoRa works well for that use case. Maybe something Gossip-related?
functionality through an occasional connection is a good goal. The only experience that I had with gossip was Scuttlebutt. Correct me if Scuttlebutt does not use Gossip. Scuttlebutt seemed very 'heavy'.
The code is not upload for the moment, the code is terrible and i need more testing. The protocol real speed in Longfast is 300 bps and MediumFast almost 1200 bps.
For the stability my protocol send the number of lines to received and I numbered all lines. If some lines is missed, the client ask these lines back to the server. Also the protocol can received Chat and Text page at the same time.
I send a link to a video showing a reception of the Gemini capsule spartan.mozz.us at LongFast .
— https://odysee.com/@cotteux:7/2024-05-14-19-00-55:2b
I really think it's the way forward. Gemini, or gopher, or some sort of BBS really. I would think something that can be synced, so that you can keep in touch with other. This BBS is a good example of a system that would work well with LoRa radio, but should also be reachable through other protocol. I've made myself a small e-paper 'typewriter' that also has a LoRa radio. The tablet is android, and can connect to meshtastic. But living in the middle of nowhere, I can't test that setup just yet. I'll send pic / write about it, somewhere in gemini :D
@daruma please write a loooong post about it! I would love to read about it, I am thinking of creating similar things!
My project still in progress. I modify my client to be a proxy server to link Lagrange with meshtastic.
After that, is easy to create a adapted capsule for meshtastic. it's easy to create page loading ender 10 sec on longfast.
this a video of loading in longfast a gemini capsule.
— https://odysee.com/@cotteux:7/meshgate1:b
@requiem here are some information
— bbs.geminispace.org/u/daruma/17758
i wonder how to do that without meshtastic. i understand that lora is very different, and running tcp/ip over it is not that easy. but still, i wonder are there options if not meshtastic, what else can we do. i guess if i understood lora better, i would know.
It's also exit Reticulum network with an ip system.
This network work with lora, ham radio, wifi ....
They already have a message system and a text web system with Micron (mix markdown + html) with compression system.
Nice project
For those who are using Reticulum.network.
I write a Gemini Proxy running on Nomadnet.
Just go on the node SherbyZone at this adress :
3e05f77a9f0dbfc124f230862153c9f9:/page/index.mu
Still in early beta, no input and no certificate and have trouble with some links.
I added the input feature for Search engine and input form.
Gemini over LoRaWAN? — I'm fascinated by the idea of running a smolweb over LoRaWAN. Imagine a decentralized network of FLOSS-hardware devices, solar-powered, each running a gemini capsule and a relay (HAM radio style) to transmit data on to other points on the LoRaWAN mesh network. It's not a fast way to communicate, but smolweb gemini doesn't need to be. If LoRaWAN can reach 56.6kbps, it'd feel like the days of dialup, but... decentralized, solar-powered, and resistant to censorship. Has...
💬 Half_Elf_Monk · 34 comments · 5 likes · May 01 · 2 months ago