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This is a reply to a pointed comment by @zetamacs.
@blah_blah_blah Why believe there is any deeper agenda by anyone, let alone "the deep state"? What reason is there to think that's what's at work here, and not merely the obvious fact that society's lost its collective marbles?
For a group supposedly operating in near-total secrecy, people on the internet sure talk a big game about how much they know of them.
So, point blank, I ask you: HOW do you know any of this?
gemini://bbs.geminispace.org/u/zetamacs/17474
My first question: why target me of all people, when the claims of OP similarly invoked string pullers? I guess if someone proposes string pulling that flatters your political biases that raises no alarms. But if the proposal fails to flatter you, you get offended and start demanding explanations.
Before I begin, if your argument is that nobody can know what the deep state does by definition because they act covertly, then there's probably no reason for you to continue reading my reply. We know as a matter of fact these agencies exist. Pretending like they don't exist because we can't see them act openly is childish. Just because we can't know all that is happening doesn't mean we can't think about their probable influence on matters we can observe.
The deep state isn't a conspiracy theory. In Turkey it was an open secret. The deep state promoted the views of the liberal state held by Ataturk. It was rooted out by the Prime Minister / President ErdoÄŸan in order to move Turkey toward Islamism.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Deep_state_in_Turkey
Within the United States, I would classify the deep state minimally as all those persons holding classified security clearance, and the people they manage, which would include most of the important posts in the media, at universities, and anywhere where human influence can contribute to political outcomes. There's a reason why Epstein lured into his web the likes of Marvin Minsky of the MIT AI lab, and Bill Gates.
Here is an article about the CIA lying to Congress and the White House about torture.
It is events like this that cause me to view the deep state as having an adversarial relationship to democracy. Whereas democracy is about the people controlling public institutions directed to fulfilling public policy arrived at through transparent means, the deep state is about hidden elites working in the shadows to pursue secret policies. Snowden has proved that these policies are not high minded, as when the NSA conducted economic espionage against France.
And, of course, we have the comedy of errors which was 9/11 in which a former CIA operative, Osama Bin Laden, ended up blowing up the World Trade Center towers and the Pentagon, formerly a fact, now officially an "allegation" according to Wikipedia.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Allegations_of_CIA_assistance_to_Osama_bin_Laden
The War on Terror declared upon Al Qaida in 2021 ended when the US fighting on the same side with the terrorist organization in its proxy war in Syria.
https://www.pbs.org/newshour/world/the-syrian-crisis-simplified-whos-fighting-whom-and-why
https://www.mei.edu/publications/how-al-qaeda-exploited-syrian-civil-war
The millions of deaths (Iraq), the destructions of whole nations (Libya) and the non-stop propaganda and lies used to justify these crimes in the corporate media make me curious about the deep state.
Here's my original post.
The cases against Trump is the deep state taking out a buffoon who is too stupid to support the wars necessary to prop up the ponzai scheme that is the petrodollar. It's not a show. The entire point of the circus is to take him out. That Trump will continue like nothing happened has more to do with his personality than what the string pullers want. When Trump support fails to collapse, the deep state will move onto a new game: corrupting democracy. Journalists have already bragged about how they string pulled the 2020 election to ensure Trump lost. I'm sure this time it will be even more brazen as there is no real enthusiasm for Biden. They will again brag about "saving democracy" by rigging the election.
You asked how I know any of this. I will go through it point by point.
Trump is a buffoon...
First of all, Trump is a buffoon. He is an entertainer. He is a charlaton and a bluffer. And at times he is a clown. I think almost everyone can agree on that point, even his supporters who have had to tolerate his ridiculous behavior.
By framing him as a buffoon I reject the characterization of Trump as another Hitler, a notion popular amongst the Trumpedly Deranged who view him as a unique threat to the America due to his fascistic or dictatorial intent. In my view, he best compares to Berlusconi, a scummy womanizing billionaire who managed to become the Prime Minister of Italy through much the same populist politics.
https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/article/2024/jun/03/donald-trump-hitler-similarities
https://www.politico.com/news/magazine/2023/12/19/godwins-law-trump-hitler-00132427
https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/2023/11/13/how-trumps-rhetoric-compares-hitlers/
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Silvio_Berlusconi
https://www.aljazeera.com/opinions/2023/6/15/berlusconism-was-the-prequel-to-trumpism
The real threat Trump poses to the system is occupying the White House at a moment when the US needs to economically destabilize its competitors in order to prop up the US dollar, so it can maintain its hegemonic position in the world. Since if the US dollar collapses, it will be catastrophic, such foreign policy has become an absolute necessity.
Trump's inability to play ball on existential foreign policy is what explains the irrational lengths the deep state and the media go to to smear Trump. It's not really anything he's said, though to be sure has offended many people. And it's certainly not anything he's done, as he was probably the least effective president in history, given how his administration was targeted with nonstop interference. It's because what America needs right now is someone to rubber stamp the wars.
They need Biden, not Trump.
who is too stupid to support the wars necessary...
Trump clearly has no interest in supporting NATO or enlarging any war (except perhaps in Israel). He tried to get US troops out of Afghanistan, but was stymied by Pentagon officials. The one time he rained down missiles on Syria appeared to me to be orchestrated by the Military Industrial Complex. Have you got any proof Trump is promoting war? The reason I say he's "too stupid" is because by not promoting war, Trump will inevitably tank the US economy. If hyperinflation strikes the US, it will cost him a billion dollars to buy a loaf of bread.
https://www.nytimes.com/2019/01/14/us/politics/nato-president-trump.html
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2017_Shayrat_missile_strike
propping up the ponzai scheme that is the petrodollar
After the US left the gold standard they tied their currency to oil by making an exclusive relationship with Saudi Arabia. This has meant that all countries need to trade in US dollars, which ensures that it has value no matter how much debt the US accumulated. Until recently. Given the fact that the US debt is spiraling out of control, and Saudi Arabia talking about leaving the agreement with the US, I'd say the US dollar is teetering on the brink. We are already observing serious inflation in the US.
This is the actual basis of the unique threat Trump poses to the United States. Trump's buffoonery makes it impossible for him to sell the wars America needs to stay on top.
https://www.atlanticcouncil.org/blogs/econographics/is-the-end-of-the-petrodollar-near/
https://www.atlanticcouncil.org/blogs/econographics/what-the-end-of-petrodollars-means/
https://www.newindianexpress.com/opinions/2024/Jun/20/is-this-the-beginning-of-petrodollars-end
https://scheerpost.com/2024/06/21/is-the-reign-of-the-dollar-coming-to-an-end/
Why "ponzi scheme"? Because the whole thing looks like a scam. With the Petrodollar, America put itself in a position to effectively force the world to bankroll its debt forever. As the Petrodollar falters, the US dollar will weaken, and the world will discover that the debts the US has created cannot be paid back. Just like a ponzi scheme can't pay out the promised profits. An analogy, but a sound one.
The entire point of the circus is the to take him out.
OP said that the trial was just a show. I countered that the trial is real, and its purpose is to take him out politically. I would say that OP's claim is less plausible than my own. He seems to believe that the political distinction between Trump and the establishment is an illusion. I don't believe that.
Trump will continue like nothing happened
In fact, Trump inspired his followers to send him something like 140 million dollars. So I was right and OP was wrong.
https://www.politico.com/news/2024/06/21/trump-overtakes-biden-campaign-fundraising-00164384
has more to do with his personality than what the string pullers want
Do you suggest that Trump raised 140 million because that's what the people trying to orchestrate his political defeat want? OP was trying to argue that the whole thing, including the trial, was a sham invented by string pullers. Trump's refusal to bow to the system isn't an effect of the system, or some conspiracy. He's not being told not to give up. It's due to his personality.
When Trump support fails to collapse
Versus Trump's 140 million dollars, Biden raised a mere ~30 million at a star studded Hollywood event. So I'm right again.
https://www.cbsnews.com/news/biden-campaign-trail-los-angeles-hollywood-fundraiser/
the deep state will move onto a new game
The attacks on Trump have always mutated and shifted since 2016. They're not going to just let him win. There's no way I'm going to try to catalog all the crazy things that have been said about Trump, but I'll just mention the contrived "pee tape" the Russians are supposed to have on Trump, which was contrived by a UK intelligence officer and "leaked" to the Democratic party. The second thing I'll mention is all the times journalists claimed that /this time/ they got Trump.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Steele_dossier
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f1ab6uxg908
Corrupting democracy
If you thnk US democracy isn't corrupted, that's your claim to prove. Off the top of my head: neither Trump nor Biden deserve to be president. Both of them are junk candidates that have emerged from a junk process string pulled to the point that many people no longer believe in it. If you beleive in it, fine. But it's not irrational to have lost faith in American democracy, nor to raise the question as to which special interest groups have contributed most to its decline. My vote is for billionaire class, the military industrial complex, and the intelligence services, all of whom own and control the corporate media which use psychological techniques to shape narratives, undermining the media's role of serving as a source of information that makes democracy a process of rational choice. Not that it ever was perfect. But in my view, it's clearly been hijacked.
https://www.bbc.com/news/blogs-echochambers-27074746
https://www.thenation.com/article/society/cbo-american-wealth-inequality/
https://www.commondreams.org/opinion/oligarchy-vs-american-democracy
https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/2023/08/18/american-democracy-political-system-failures/
As for the deep state corrupting democracy, well, that's my belief. I believe the intelligence agencies use propaganda, targetted censorship, and other means to shape public discourse. The Twitter files prove that this happened during the 2020 election. I believe American journalism is effectively controlled by the intelligence agencies. You only have to have lived through a few wars to see how all the American news rooms magically arrive at the same page, supporting the troops yet again. It is my belief that it's no accident. I also happen to believe that the animus against Trump is not organic, even if some of it is.
Something I find interesting about the Twitter Files is how the corporate press and the think tanks all held hands to deny its significance. Just search for Twitter Files and read the many headlines downplaying or creatively reframing the story.
By the way, I'm sure I'm not the only one who has noticed that US media sounds almost always like propaganda, 24/7. The lifting of the propaganda ban and this experience is just too coincidental. First it was Trump. Then it was COVID. Then Ukraine. It's always something that the American media is pumping out 24/7, polarizing everyone on social media. It wasn't always like this.
Interestingly, the corporate media always frames the danger propaganda poses to democracy in terms of Trumpian propaganda, or propaganda from the "enemies of democracy". There is almost no discourse about the terrible effect of American state propaganda upon American democracy, since of course that would require (a) journalists to admit that it even happens, which would reveal how much they really know and participate in this state of affairs, and (b) to bring focus to the United States as the pre-eminient world power in the dark arts of propaganda. These are stories that will never be told outside the pages of a boring academic book that inspires no curiosity in the very human networks that these powers dominate, such as the university.
German journalist Udo Ulfkotte, an editor for a major German daily newspaper, revealed the extent of the influence of the CIA in German media.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Udo_Ulfkotte
It goes without saying that the same /and worse/ must be operating in America. But that story has not really been told, because the power of these agencies has not yet been broken. When hyperinflation hits America, we will begin to understand what is really going on.
Journalists have already bragged about how they string pulled the 2020 election to ensure Trump lost.
This was something I read between the lines from this article in Time magazine.
https://time.com/5936036/secret-2020-election-campaign/
The handshake between business and labor was just one component of a vast, cross-partisan campaign to protect the election–an extraordinary shadow effort dedicated not to winning the vote but to ensuring it would be free and fair, credible and uncorrupted.
The article frames the conspiracy against Trump as an effort to make sure the election was "credible and uncorrupted". But that is just how the story is framed. I read it a different way: getting ahead of any narative about a broad conspiracy against Trump by shaping the narrative about that conspiracy. Digging into the article goes beyond the scope of this reply, so I'll stick to the sentence I've quoted above.
The conspiracy was framed as protecting democracy by coordinating "an extraordinary shadow effort". First, the idea of "extraordinary measures" reminds me of Carl Schmitt's political analysis, which sought to justify the extraordinary powers of the dictator (then Hitler). Extraordinary and "emergency" powers are precisely those used /against/ democracy. Emergency powers and "extraordinary measures" are precisely those meant to circumvent democracy. So I am very suspicious about this characterizatoin.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Concept_of_the_Political
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/State_of_exception
These extraodinary measures were not conducted by the Sovereign, but they no less contribute to the sense of emergency, and of embracing emergency as a justification for authorizing any kind of political action whatsoever, where the end justifies the means.
Now look at the next phrase: "shadow effort". Does that sound like a /democratic/ process to you? It sounds like a deep state process to me. If democracy was worth saving, why wasn't this effort made out in the open, for the sake of transparency, so that the democratic process would not only be protected, but also be /seen/ to be protected through transparent acts? After all, the aim of this effort was to ensure that the election was "credible" as well as uncorrupted. But credibility depends upon the public understanding the process. A "shadow effort" does not qualify, and yet this is celebrated without complication by the journalist.
Here are some links that suggest secrecy undermines democracy:
https://news.bloomberglaw.com/us-law-week/how-the-state-secrets-doctrine-undermines-democracy
https://www.journalofdemocracy.org/articles/how-financial-secrecy-undermines-democracy/
https://www.openthegovernment.org/wp-content/uploads/other-files/otg/govtsecrecy.pdf
Forgive me for believing that this article exists just to launder the real poltiical motivations and activities of the conspirators /who acted in the shadows/, in order to frame their efforts in the best light possible, since they knew the rumors would inevitably emerge and it would be better to get ahead of the story.
I'm sure this time it will be even more brazen as there is no real enthusiasm for Biden.
Joe Biden is 81 years old, obviously senile, and is not that popular. He's been deemed to be too old for the job, and yet the Democratic party has no other candidate.
https://uk.news.yahoo.com/majority-voters-believe-biden-too-172922252.html
It's a problem because if they needed a whole conspiracy to run the "shadow effort" last time, I can't imagine what rabbits they'll have to pull out of which hats to get Biden re-elected in 2024.
The American public are being led to believe that videos of Joe Biden acting like a senile old man are actually "cheap fakes". We are no longer allowed to believe anything, least of all that an 81 year old man might be too old to be President.
Polling numbers are always tricky. Remember when the New York Times reported on electoin night of 2016 that Hillary Clinton had a 95% chance of winning?
We can easily find reporting emphasizing Trump leads or Biden leads, depending on which politcial operative is writing, and which party dominates that particularly news outlet. Only god knows, and I'm not going to argue either way. However, here are a few articles about low enthusiasm for Biden:
https://nypost.com/2024/06/21/us-news/democrats-not-enthusiastic-about-biden-re-election/
https://www.politico.com/news/2024/06/20/joe-biden-underperforming-democrats-polls-00164156
They will again brag about "saving democracy" by rigging the election.
They being journalists, the rigging by "strange bedfellows" where labor unions join hands with billionaires.
If Trump is elected in 2024, the US will have missed its narrowing opportunity to use war to prop up the US dollar.
The US needs war, and Trump cannot be counted on to stage manage these conflicts. Joe Biden will do anything he's told, especially now that's hes a senile old man. And that is why the system will do everything in its power to make sure Biden is elected. There will be many more "strange bedfellows" and "shadowy" conspiracies in the 2024 election. And as I've already mentioned, I view these efforts, like the irrational non-stop hatred of Trump, to be a consequence of secret, behind-the-scenes manipulation of public sentiment by the deep state.
A conspiracy /against/ democracy from the Democratic party, in service of actual fascism, not the fantasy football version represented by the buffoon Trump, but corporate power ruling through invisible influence which is leading us all into World War III so American fiat currency doesn't hyperinflate so that 5% of the population can continue to consume 25% of the world's resources.
https://highlandcountypress.com/opinions/democrats-destroying-democracy-save-democracy#gsc.tab=0
https://freedomhouse.org/article/destroying-democracy-save-nation
https://www.re-sources.org/2020/05/online-lesson-material-world-part-1/
I hope that answers your question.
Jun 26 · 13 days ago
🚀 stack · Jun 26 at 02:46:
Some good points, except maybe re hyperinflation if wars were to stop. The insane spending of Biden Adm. is a direct cause of inflation -- you can only double the money supply so many times before it's worth nothing. Most military spending winds up in the pockets of a few dudes, and goes back into circulation when they deposit the billions into the banking system. But they think they can stave off a massive systemic deflation by inflating the cuurency
🚲 CitySlicker · Jun 26 at 22:38:
Thanks for taking the time to write this. I found it interesting to read.
💎 istvan · Jun 27 at 22:22:
That’s a lot of text and I can’t read it all, but I would say that anyone who pretends something doesn’t exist because we can’t see it openly and won’t accept that there are things we can know exist by measuring their effects on other things is going to have a pretty hard time with gravity.
It’s probably not worth arguing with someone like that.