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Date: Mon, 25 Jan 2021 20:58:31 +0000
Poetry is dear to my soul. And in the Big Bloated Web is a pain to set it up properly. So, I resolved to explore it in Gemini.
My first wee experiment is a pseudo-haiku Flor 4. This little poem or something has five spaces at the start of the first line. And it's displayed like that by amphora, However, the proxies I've tried collapse those spaces. I suppose due to the way HTML and CSS behave by default.
gemini://enteka.xyz/flor4.gemini
--------
Date: Mon, 25 Jan 2021 21:11:46 +0000
On 2021-01-25 (Monday) at 20:58, Miguel de Luis Espinosa <enteka at fastmail.com> wrote:
Poetry is dear to my soul. And in the Big Bloated Web is a pain to set
it up properly. So, I resolved to explore it in Gemini.
My first wee experiment is a pseudo-haiku Flor 4. This little poem or
something has five spaces at the start of the first line. And it's
displayed like that by amphora, However, the proxies I've tried
collapse those spaces. I suppose due to the way HTML and CSS behave by
default.
=> gemini://enteka.xyz/flor4.gemini
I've also had issues typesetting poetry in various markup languages; LaTeX has an alright mode but for HTML I use <pre style="font-family:serif;"> etc. In fact, the only extension to the text/gemini format that I would imagine being behind would be a preformatted, but not monospaced font, block. Not that that really makes any sense.
Anyway, when I've typeset poetry in Gemini I put the lines in between preformatting blocks -- at least that keeps the lines correctly spaced.
--
~ acdw
acdw.net | breadpunk.club/~breadw
--------
Date: Mon, 25 Jan 2021 21:23:11 +0000
On Mon, Jan 25, 2021, at 9:11 PM, acdw wrote:
On 2021-01-25 (Monday) at 20:58, Miguel de Luis Espinosa
<enteka at fastmail.com> wrote:
> Poetry is dear to my soul. And in the Big Bloated Web is a pain to set
> it up properly. So, I resolved to explore it in Gemini.
>
> My first wee experiment is a pseudo-haiku Flor 4. This little poem or
> something has five spaces at the start of the first line. And it's
> displayed like that by amphora, However, the proxies I've tried
> collapse those spaces. I suppose due to the way HTML and CSS behave by
> default.
>
> => gemini://enteka.xyz/flor4.gemini
I've also had issues typesetting poetry in various markup languages;
LaTeX has an alright mode but for HTML I use <pre
style="font-family:serif;"> etc. In fact, the only extension to the
text/gemini format that I would imagine being behind would be a
preformatted, but not monospaced font, block. Not that that really
makes any sense.
Anyway, when I've typeset poetry in Gemini I put the lines in between
preformatting blocks -- at least that keeps the lines correctly spaced.
--
~ acdw
acdw.net | breadpunk.club/~breadw
In HTML, out of desperation, I created my own tags <verso> and <estrofa>
and some CSS for quite basic stuff. Not saying it's kosher, though.
But the thing is that amphora (haven't tested elsewhere) does respect the spacing
even when it's at the beginning of the line, even in regular gemini text (i.e not
preformated). However the proxis fail at this.
I feel like the web forgot poetry, perhaps Gemini could do better. The
potential is there.
--------
Date: Mon, 25 Jan 2021 22:35:33 +0100
Le 2021-01-25 22:23, Miguel de Luis Espinosa a ?crit?:
But the thing is that amphora (haven't tested elsewhere) does respect
the spacing
even when it's at the beginning of the line, even in regular gemini
text (i.e not
preformated). However the proxis fail at this.
It works on amfora, but it does'nt on other clients (proxies, lagrange,
etc.).
I guess the best way to do what you want is to use preformated text,
it's the only way to really preserve the layout you choose.
--------
Date: Mon, 25 Jan 2021 21:37:50 +0000
On Mon, Jan 25, 2021, at 9:35 PM, contact at medusae.space wrote:
Le 2021-01-25 22:23, Miguel de Luis Espinosa a ?crit?:
> But the thing is that amphora (haven't tested elsewhere) does respect
> the spacing
> even when it's at the beginning of the line, even in regular gemini
> text (i.e not
> preformated). However the proxis fail at this.
It works on amfora, but it does'nt on other clients (proxies, lagrange,
etc.).
I guess the best way to do what you want is to use preformated text,
it's the only way to really preserve the layout you choose.
:( it's a pity
--------
Date: Tue, 26 Jan 2021 13:11:36 +0100
contact at medusae.space writes:
Le 2021-01-25 22:23, Miguel de Luis Espinosa a ?crit :
> But the thing is that amphora (haven't tested elsewhere) does respect
> the spacing
> even when it's at the beginning of the line, even in regular gemini
> text (i.e not
> preformated). However the proxis fail at this.
It works on amfora, but it does'nt on other clients (proxies,
lagrange, etc.).
I guess the best way to do what you want is to use preformated text,
it's the only way to really preserve the layout you choose.
I was about to write that the specification requires spaces to be kept,
but it doesn't: it only requires the preservation of empty lines, not
spaces. However, the portal at portal.mozz.us and elpher (an emacs
client) preserve the whitespaces.
Speaking of CSS, one way to keep the whitespace is to use "white-space:
pre-wrap": it's what I'm using on my blog (to keep the double space at
the end of the sentences) and also what portal.mozz.us does IIRC.
--------
Date: Tue, 26 Jan 2021 15:41:38 +0000
On 2021-01-25 (Monday) at 21:23, Miguel de Luis Espinosa <enteka at fastmail.com> wrote:
In HTML, out of desperation, I created my own tags <verso> and <estrofa>
and some CSS for quite basic stuff. Not saying it's kosher, though.
But the thing is that amphora (haven't tested elsewhere) does respect
the spacing
even when it's at the beginning of the line, even in regular gemini
text (i.e not
preformated). However the proxis fail at this.
I feel like the web forgot poetry, perhaps Gemini could do better. The
potential is there.
Despite the danger of throwing this off-topic, here's how I mark-up poetry on my website (mostly; I'm correcting some things here):
<p class="verse"> <span class="line">Twinkle, twinkle little star</span> <span class="line">how I wonder what you are</span> ... </p>
.verse .line {
text-indent: 1ch;
margin-left: -1ch;
position: relative;
left: 1ch;
display: block;
white-space: pre-wrap;
}
I like having each line in a <span> because it feels more ... semantic, that way.
--
~ acdw
acdw.net | breadpunk.club/~breadw
--------
Date: Tue, 26 Jan 2021 16:41:05 +0000
On Tue, Jan 26, 2021, at 3:41 PM, acdw wrote:
On 2021-01-25 (Monday) at 21:23, Miguel de Luis Espinosa
<enteka at fastmail.com> wrote:
> In HTML, out of desperation, I created my own tags <verso> and <estrofa>
> and some CSS for quite basic stuff. Not saying it's kosher, though.
>
> But the thing is that amphora (haven't tested elsewhere) does respect
> the spacing
> even when it's at the beginning of the line, even in regular gemini
> text (i.e not
> preformated). However the proxis fail at this.
>
> I feel like the web forgot poetry, perhaps Gemini could do better. The
> potential is there.
Despite the danger of throwing this off-topic, here's how I mark-up
poetry on my website (mostly; I'm correcting some things here):
```html
<p class="verse">
<span class="line">Twinkle, twinkle little star</span>
<span class="line">how I wonder what you are</span>
...
</p>
```
```css
.verse .line {
text-indent: 1ch;
margin-left: -1ch;
position: relative;
left: 1ch;
display: block;
white-space: pre-wrap;
}
```
I like having each line in a <span> because it feels more ... semantic,
that way.
--
~ acdw
acdw.net | breadpunk.club/~breadw
That's one way of doing it. You are addressing the issue that lines, not paragraphs are the units of a poem.
However the sad thing is that you need to be sort of a "computer person" to dare to try this stuff. Many people who do poetry will not touch code with a 6 meters pole. But then again these are not the kind of people who would easily experiment in Gemini or Gopher.
I'm considering suggesting using pdf, just do what you have to do in your word processor of choice and print as pdf and it's all nice for all of us.
--------
Date: Tue, 26 Jan 2021 16:52:12 +0000
??????? Original Message ???????
On Tuesday, January 26, 2021 5:41 PM, Miguel de Luis Espinosa <enteka at fastmail.com> wrote:
On Tue, Jan 26, 2021, at 3:41 PM, acdw wrote:
> On 2021-01-25 (Monday) at 21:23, Miguel de Luis Espinosa
> enteka at fastmail.com wrote:
>
> > In HTML, out of desperation, I created my own tags <verso> and <estrofa>
> > and some CSS for quite basic stuff. Not saying it's kosher, though.
> > But the thing is that amphora (haven't tested elsewhere) does respect
> > the spacing
> > even when it's at the beginning of the line, even in regular gemini
> > text (i.e not
> > preformated). However the proxis fail at this.
> > I feel like the web forgot poetry, perhaps Gemini could do better. The
> > potential is there.
>
> Despite the danger of throwing this off-topic, here's how I mark-up
> poetry on my website (mostly; I'm correcting some things here):
>
> <p class="verse">
> <span class="line">Twinkle, twinkle little star</span>
> <span class="line">how I wonder what you are</span>
> ...
> </p>
>
>
> .verse .line {
> text-indent: 1ch;
> margin-left: -1ch;
> position: relative;
> left: 1ch;
> display: block;
> white-space: pre-wrap;
> }
>
>
> I like having each line in a <span> because it feels more ... semantic,
> that way.
> --
> ~ acdw
> acdw.net | breadpunk.club/~breadw
That's one way of doing it. You are addressing the issue that lines, not paragraphs are the units of a poem.
However the sad thing is that you need to be sort of a "computer person" to dare to try this stuff. Many people who do poetry will not touch code with a 6 meters pole. But then again these are not the kind of people who would easily experiment in Gemini or Gopher.
I'm considering suggesting using pdf, just do what you have to do in your word processor of choice and print as pdf and it's all nice for all of us.
What about:
<pre class="poetry">
Twinkle, twinkle little star
how I wonder what you are
</pre>
Would that work?
--------
## From: Miguel de Luis Espinosa
Date: Tue, 26 Jan 2021 16:55:44 +0000
On Tue, Jan 26, 2021, at 4:52 PM, Joop Laan wrote:
> ??????? Original Message ???????
> On Tuesday, January 26, 2021 5:41 PM, Miguel de Luis Espinosa
> <enteka at fastmail.com> wrote:
>
> >
> >
> > On Tue, Jan 26, 2021, at 3:41 PM, acdw wrote:
> >
> > > On 2021-01-25 (Monday) at 21:23, Miguel de Luis Espinosa
> > > enteka at fastmail.com wrote:
> > >
> > > > In HTML, out of desperation, I created my own tags <verso> and <estrofa>
> > > > and some CSS for quite basic stuff. Not saying it's kosher, though.
> > > > But the thing is that amphora (haven't tested elsewhere) does respect
> > > > the spacing
> > > > even when it's at the beginning of the line, even in regular gemini
> > > > text (i.e not
> > > > preformated). However the proxis fail at this.
> > > > I feel like the web forgot poetry, perhaps Gemini could do better. The
> > > > potential is there.
> > >
> > > Despite the danger of throwing this off-topic, here's how I mark-up
> > > poetry on my website (mostly; I'm correcting some things here):
> > >
> > > <p class="verse">
> > > <span class="line">Twinkle, twinkle little star</span>
> > > <span class="line">how I wonder what you are</span>
> > > ...
> > > </p>
> > >
> > >
> > > .verse .line {
> > > text-indent: 1ch;
> > > margin-left: -1ch;
> > > position: relative;
> > > left: 1ch;
> > > display: block;
> > > white-space: pre-wrap;
> > > }
> > >
> > >
> > > I like having each line in a <span> because it feels more ... semantic,
> > > that way.
> > > --
> > > ~ acdw
> > > acdw.net | breadpunk.club/~breadw
> >
> > That's one way of doing it. You are addressing the issue that lines, not paragraphs are the units of a poem.
> >
> > However the sad thing is that you need to be sort of a "computer person" to dare to try this stuff. Many people who do poetry will not touch code with a 6 meters pole. But then again these are not the kind of people who would easily experiment in Gemini or Gopher.
> >
> > I'm considering suggesting using pdf, just do what you have to do in your word processor of choice and print as pdf and it's all nice for all of us.
>
> What about:
>
> ```html
> <pre class="poetry">
> Twinkle, twinkle little star
> how I wonder what you are
> </pre>
>
> Would that work?
>
if the client can parse html and css, but if it can do that wouldn't you be recreating most of the web?
--------
## From: acdw
Date: Tue, 26 Jan 2021 19:55:14 +0000
On 2021-01-26 (Tuesday) at 16:55, Miguel de Luis Espinosa <enteka at fastmail.com> wrote:
>
>
> On Tue, Jan 26, 2021, at 4:52 PM, Joop Laan wrote:
> > What about:
> >
> > ```html
> > <pre class="poetry">
> > Twinkle, twinkle little star
> > how I wonder what you are
> > </pre>
> >
> > Would that work?
> >
>
> if the client can parse html and css, but if it can do that wouldn't
> you be recreating most of the web?
>
IMO, yes. Which is why, with Gemini, I stick to
Twinkle, twinkle...
It's "close enough". -- ~ acdw acdw.net | breadpunk.club/~breadw -------- ## From: contact at medusae.space Date: Thu, 28 Jan 2021 22:05:52 +0100 Le 2021-01-26 17:41, Miguel de Luis Espinosa a ?crit?: > I'm considering suggesting using pdf, just do what you have to do in > your word processor of choice and print as pdf and it's all nice for > all of us. Actually that's a good idea. PDF is a great format for preserving everything you want and be sure that's it's displayed nicely on other's computers. And gemini can serve PDFs without any kind of issues. --------