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~inquiry

> I don't blame them, not when it so often seems
> like a binary choice between exploiter and
> exploited. There's a third option, rejection of
> the false dichotomy and refusal to be either a
> boss or a worker, but that's a *lot* harder.

Are you talking about suicide?

I don't disagree. But the faux mathematician in me fears the "a *lot* harder part" suggests so few are - or (perhaps) even could be - sufficiently self(ishness)-denying to ever collectively make meaningful difference at the societal level. They would simply appear to be "kooks" to the vast sea of proletariat/bosses/wealthy they were barely treading water in.

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~starbreaker wrote (thread):

But the faux mathematician in me fears the "a *lot* harder part" suggests so few are - or (perhaps) even could be - sufficiently self(ishness)-denying to ever collectively make meaningful difference at the societal level. They would simply appear to be "kooks" to the vast sea of proletariat/bosses/wealthy they were barely treading water in.

For some reason this post reminds me of Gwern's article on subcultures.

The Melancholy of Subculture Society

Thus I can't help but wonder: what's wrong with being a "kook"? Why is self-denial necessary? The third option I was talking about is doing just enough to get by in mainstream society, and otherwise opting out and doing one's own thing. The ideal would be getting together a couple of million and being able to own a house and car outright while using investment interest to cover property taxes and thus face the world from the position of "fuck you", but that might not be realistic for most people.

YouTube: John Goodman in "The Gambler": the Position of Fuck You

Would this make a meaningful difference at the societal level? Not if only a few people do it. But as more people do it, mainstream capitalist society begins to crumble.