gemini - kennedy.gemi.dev

💾 Archived View for gemini.ctrl-c.club › ~phoebos › logs › kisslinux-2021-10-05.txt captured on 2024-06-16 at 13:39:51.
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[2021-10-05T01:15:11Z] <noocsharp> well npm seems to actually be usable as a password manager now
[2021-10-05T02:59:32Z] <testuser[m]> Hi
[2021-10-05T04:26:56Z] <GalaxyNova> hey
[2021-10-05T04:36:48Z] <GalaxyNova> hey akira
[2021-10-05T04:36:54Z] <GalaxyNova> how's it going
[2021-10-05T04:37:24Z] <GalaxyNova> akira01
[2021-10-05T04:40:51Z] <GalaxyNova> oh
[2021-10-05T04:40:58Z] <GalaxyNova> that was a leave message... lol
[2021-10-05T08:08:25Z] <testuser[m]> Can someone try switching to a tty while sway is running ? I think there's a bug cuz it just segfaults after thay
[2021-10-05T10:48:22Z] <riteo> hiiiiiii!
[2021-10-05T10:48:56Z] <riteo> welp, looks like nodejs can't compile with the latest python
[2021-10-05T10:48:58Z] <testuser[m]> hiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiii
[2021-10-05T10:49:08Z] <riteo> hi testuser!
[2021-10-05T10:50:37Z] <riteo> wait, how did dylan update so fast python? Is he subscribed to every mailing list ever?
[2021-10-05T10:50:51Z] <riteo> s/ever/ever made/
[2021-10-05T10:50:51Z] <cotangent> <riteo> wait, how did dylan update so fast python? Is he subscribed to ever madey mailing list ever made?
[2021-10-05T10:50:53Z] <testuser[m]> He's a machine
[2021-10-05T10:51:10Z] <testuser[m]> riteo: https://libera.irclog.whitequark.org/kisslinux/2021-10-03#30940115
[2021-10-05T10:51:14Z] <riteo> tfw dylan updates a dependency so fast that a package can't compile for it
[2021-10-05T10:51:59Z] <riteo> oh sorry, I don't check logs that often
[2021-10-05T10:52:25Z] <riteo> wow! That's great! How did you do that?
[2021-10-05T10:53:10Z] <testuser[m]> https://github.com/git-bruh/nvidia-musl for details, x11 wont work tho (so no xwayland)
[2021-10-05T10:53:49Z] <riteo> that's already a lot
[2021-10-05T10:54:01Z] <testuser[m]> cuz nvidia has its own library for thread local storage so thats wont work properly cuz of the initial-exec tls stuff
[2021-10-05T10:54:09Z] <testuser[m]> it works on wayland cuz we could build libglvnd with tls off
[2021-10-05T10:54:12Z] <riteo> oh I think I did the same thing for the null stub
[2021-10-05T10:55:08Z] <riteo> oh so that's how you resolved the LD_PRELOAD thing!
[2021-10-05T10:55:20Z] <riteo> just curious, so that was the reason that i3 crashed?
[2021-10-05T10:55:36Z] <riteo> the thread local storage thing
[2021-10-05T10:55:37Z] <testuser[m]> No it would work fine even with LD_PRELOAD but weird stuff was happening
[2021-10-05T10:55:43Z] <testuser[m]> yeah tls was the reason for i3
[2021-10-05T10:56:02Z] <riteo> dang it, I was so close!
[2021-10-05T10:56:28Z] <riteo> well, thanks a lot for packaging and documenting it further!
[2021-10-05T10:56:37Z] <testuser[m]> np
[2021-10-05T10:57:01Z] <riteo> considering the similarity with my initial setup, did I help somehow in starting it all or was it just a coincidence? just curious
[2021-10-05T10:57:43Z] <testuser[m]> I dont really remember lol last time i tried was months back, just had the idea to try it again a few days ago
[2021-10-05T10:58:02Z] <riteo> oh I see, just a coincidence then, cool!
[2021-10-05T10:58:16Z] <riteo> now I'm tempted to mess up my main pc to install nvidia
[2021-10-05T10:58:41Z] <testuser[m]> Shit i forgot to make swap before starting firefox
[2021-10-05T10:58:44Z] <testuser[m]> Build
[2021-10-05T10:59:00Z] <riteo> did the GBM thing already get merged in nvidia?
[2021-10-05T10:59:17Z] <riteo> oof for your pc
[2021-10-05T10:59:30Z] <testuser[m]> They don't support that as a back end yet but the mesa pr was merged to allow loading it in the future
[2021-10-05T10:59:48Z] <riteo> mhh, so that's why you used a chroot I suppose
[2021-10-05T11:00:01Z] <testuser[m]> Wdym
[2021-10-05T11:00:28Z] <riteo> no wait I'm dumb, I forgot wayland didn't have network transparency by default
[2021-10-05T11:00:33Z] <riteo> did you use an EGL compositor then?
[2021-10-05T11:00:49Z] <testuser[m]> There is that eglstreams wlroots fork
[2021-10-05T11:00:51Z] <testuser[m]> It works great
[2021-10-05T11:01:01Z] <riteo> oh cool
[2021-10-05T11:01:41Z] <riteo> did you identify specifically what's wrong with libnvidia-tls?
[2021-10-05T11:02:20Z] <testuser[m]> Musl throws that initial exec tls resolves to dynamic definition bla bla stuff 
[2021-10-05T11:02:45Z] <testuser[m]> Unless we can change the nvidia tls model we can't fix it
[2021-10-05T11:02:52Z] <riteo> oh I think I stumbled on that too
[2021-10-05T11:03:18Z] <riteo> so it's either clean room implementation or nothing ig
[2021-10-05T11:03:51Z] <riteo> well, as I said that's already a lot
[2021-10-05T11:04:01Z] <testuser[m]> how can you do a clean room implementation of nvidia driver lol
[2021-10-05T11:04:27Z] <riteo> wait, that isn't a public facing library?
[2021-10-05T11:04:46Z] <testuser[m]> wdym
[2021-10-05T11:04:53Z] <riteo> I thought it was some api or smth
[2021-10-05T11:04:59Z] <testuser[m]> the only open source nvidia thing is the shim module and the nvidia-settings program
[2021-10-05T11:05:12Z] <riteo> why would they make nvidia-setting oss
[2021-10-05T11:05:25Z] <testuser[m]> idk some people submit translations to it lol
[2021-10-05T11:05:29Z] <riteo> lmao
[2021-10-05T11:06:01Z] <riteo> well that's a big bummer then
[2021-10-05T11:07:24Z] <riteo> I hoped there was some documentation for it, but if it's a library only used by the driver...
[2021-10-05T11:07:49Z] <testuser[m]> yeah its internal
[2021-10-05T11:08:31Z] <riteo> I mean, maybe it might still be possible to do some clean room impl, if the symbols are there, no?
[2021-10-05T11:08:50Z] <riteo> one might mess up by linking to it, although that doesn't sound very realistic or fun
[2021-10-05T11:10:56Z] <riteo> anyways, leaving my ignorant mumbling apart, there's this PR for the nodejs issue: https://github.com/nodejs/node/pull/40296
[2021-10-05T11:11:31Z] <riteo> and apparently there's another dependency that needs a fix
[2021-10-05T11:11:39Z] <testuser[m]> https://termbin.com/7nwas the symbols arent even informative so...
[2021-10-05T11:11:54Z] <riteo> b r u h
[2021-10-05T11:12:06Z] <testuser[m]> secret sauce moment
[2021-10-05T11:12:25Z] <riteo> certified nvidia moment
[2021-10-05T11:12:45Z] <riteo> god I hate nvidia so much, I can't wait to get an AMD gpu at a decent price
[2021-10-05T11:14:29Z] <riteo> uuh also I've got updates to that eudev depedendency issue, apparently mdev is way more powerful than I thought
[2021-10-05T13:30:22Z] <riteo> I'm really starting to think that dylan could expose at least an USB hook in the default mdev config
[2021-10-05T13:30:47Z] <riteo> this might take down some eudev dependencies in community
[2021-10-05T13:43:33Z] <noocsharp> i suspect many of the packages with eudev dependencies don't actually need eudev
[2021-10-05T13:43:51Z] <noocsharp> i just swapped them to libudev-zero and they work fine
[2021-10-05T13:44:57Z] <testuser[m]> some used to need eudev for the devices to actually be detected but i think it all works now with udev zro
[2021-10-05T13:45:17Z] <riteo> the issue that a maintainer pointed to me is that some packages offer only udev rules for allowing usage of usb devices to normal users
[2021-10-05T13:45:56Z] <noocsharp> ah
[2021-10-05T13:46:04Z] <riteo> I've made a huge post explaing a solution to that issue in the relative thread: https://github.com/kiss-community/community/issues/731
[2021-10-05T13:47:11Z] <riteo> I have no idea how libgphoto2 actually interfaces with the cameras, so there might be some other device, and thus hook, to work with
[2021-10-05T13:47:51Z] <riteo> my method should work fine for other devices too though, with some changes when needed
[2021-10-05T14:05:03Z] <riteo> gtg, cya later!
[2021-10-05T16:01:30Z] <midfavila> Hello, everyone.
[2021-10-05T16:01:37Z] <aosync> hello midfavila
[2021-10-05T16:02:35Z] <testuser[m]> Hi 
[2021-10-05T16:02:43Z] <testuser[m]> Why do you disappear for so long
[2021-10-05T16:02:45Z] <phoebos> hi
[2021-10-05T16:03:39Z] <midfavila> testuser[m]: I've been devoting most of my time to studying
[2021-10-05T16:03:43Z] <midfavila> IRC is kind of a distraction :P 
[2021-10-05T16:04:07Z] <testuser[m]> Studying what
[2021-10-05T16:04:08Z] <testuser[m]> Math?
[2021-10-05T16:04:33Z] <midfavila> Yeah. I've been reviewing the basics as of late, since it's been years since I last used them
[2021-10-05T16:51:35Z] <bountyht> Hi guys. Still considering some Linux distribution for playing around. May I ask why you guys prefer KISS over, say, Crux? Just curiosity. No trolling. Bit if flame happens I will prepare popcorn with it :-)
[2021-10-05T16:52:54Z] <testuser[m]> I really love the packaging system
[2021-10-05T16:53:02Z] <testuser[m]> And the overall flexibility
[2021-10-05T16:54:15Z] <bountyht> Yeah, I was looking at it and it reminds me of BSD port systems. Which is good.
[2021-10-05T16:54:29Z] <bountyht> What I dislike a bit is that it is all so github centric heh
[2021-10-05T16:55:13Z] <soliwilos> I like the minimalism and flexibility.
[2021-10-05T16:55:13Z] <testuser[m]> Repos can be hosted anywhere you like, only the official ones are on shithub
[2021-10-05T16:55:41Z] <testuser[m]> I think there was a mirror too but dylan shut it down
[2021-10-05T16:56:17Z] <bountyht> Too bad for the mirror's demise :-( Specially now Microsoft is using github code for nurturing their AI code writing stuffs
[2021-10-05T16:56:55Z] <testuser[m]> I mean.. It's free software
[2021-10-05T16:57:03Z] <testuser[m]> The stuff that the ai is training on
[2021-10-05T16:57:08Z] <testuser[m]> But the ai itself isn't open so
[2021-10-05T16:57:16Z] <bountyht> hmmm... what is people doing these days for shutting hybrid graphics off in KISS nowadays (Nvidia Optimus at that). I have been away of hybrids for a while so I don't know the state of it
[2021-10-05T16:57:36Z] <bountyht> testuser[m]: The problem is they giving some coder an snippet sourced from some GPL thingy
[2021-10-05T16:57:45Z] <bountyht> and then that developer releasing something as closed source
[2021-10-05T16:58:00Z] <bountyht> Which IMO may mean the closed source thing is eventyally forced to be GPLed heh
[2021-10-05T16:58:03Z] <testuser[m]> Yeah there's definitely those issues with it
[2021-10-05T17:02:08Z] <bountyht> Is there any support for binary repos at all? Because something I like is having many computers that are the same, using one for building the packages, and then set a repo of binaries and let every other computer just download those.
[2021-10-05T17:03:26Z] <testuser[m]> Why not
[2021-10-05T17:03:34Z] <testuser[m]> You can just untar the binary in the build file and install it
[2021-10-05T17:04:11Z] <testuser[m]> https://github.com/kiss-community/bin/tree/main/bin
[2021-10-05T17:13:07Z] <midfavila> bountyht: CRUX is good if you want a premade base with a decent amount of flexibility, similar to Arch. KISS is much more like Gentoo or Linux from Scratch in that you can tweak and tune every tiny detail to be exactly the way you like
[2021-10-05T17:13:40Z] <bountyht> Thanks for the insight
[2021-10-05T17:14:23Z] <bountyht> Ideally I'd like something like NetBSD in which you get a stable base and then you build ports on it.
[2021-10-05T17:14:40Z] <midfavila> you would probably prefer CRUX then
[2021-10-05T17:15:03Z] <midfavila> not that KISS is unstable, but its base is extremely small and it's easy to break stuff if you mess with its core
[2021-10-05T17:15:08Z] <bountyht> Well I think I can grab some old computer and test both :-)
[2021-10-05T17:15:14Z] <testuser[m]> The "official" base isn't very "stable" in terms of changes but you can always make your own base
[2021-10-05T17:15:20Z] <bountyht> I mean stable as in no ABI/API breaking
[2021-10-05T17:15:20Z] <midfavila> ^
[2021-10-05T17:15:24Z] <midfavila> oh
[2021-10-05T17:15:27Z] <testuser[m]> As mid said the base is like 10 packages
[2021-10-05T17:15:28Z] <midfavila> well, that's on the libc
[2021-10-05T17:15:44Z] <midfavila> that reminds me, I should probably get around to putting out my "base"
[2021-10-05T17:15:51Z] <testuser[m]> bountyht: that depends on the packages
[2021-10-05T17:15:57Z] <testuser[m]> kiss is just a package manager
[2021-10-05T17:16:27Z] <testuser[m]> openssl was bumped to 3.0 few days back so that broke ABI
[2021-10-05T17:16:40Z] * midfavila cackles in stable libressl gang
[2021-10-05T17:16:59Z] <midfavila> openbased just can't stop winning
[2021-10-05T17:19:05Z] <bountyht> Well, Linux distros are made of packages so that makes sense
[2021-10-05T17:19:50Z] <midfavila> oh, speaking of alternative KISS bases, would any of you have interest in a KISS superset in Common Lisp?
[2021-10-05T17:20:06Z] <midfavila> i've been thinking of something like that on and off for a while
[2021-10-05T17:20:07Z] <testuser[m]> kiss superset as in
[2021-10-05T17:20:23Z] <testuser[m]> the package manager right?
[2021-10-05T17:20:26Z] <midfavila> yeah
[2021-10-05T17:20:39Z] <testuser[m]> Never touched lisp
[2021-10-05T17:20:52Z] <midfavila> i've been learning it in between mathematics and C
[2021-10-05T17:21:13Z] <midfavila> i feel like a package manager would be a good "capstone" project
[2021-10-05T17:32:41Z] <aosync> package managers are nice projects
[2021-10-05T18:54:37Z] <akira01> hi
[2021-10-05T18:57:15Z] <GalaxyNova[m]> Hi
[2021-10-05T19:01:00Z] <akira01> GalaxyNova[m]: is you who try to find some spreedsheet alternative?
[2021-10-05T20:44:28Z] <GalaxyNova[m]> Yes