💾 Archived View for gemini.ctrl-c.club › ~phoebos › logs › kisslinux-2021-08-28.txt captured on 2024-06-16 at 13:40:33.
⬅️ Previous capture (2021-12-17)
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[2021-08-28T00:15:25Z] <msk[m]> GalaxyNova did you have to still use BusyBox find? I remember that sbase's find broke the package manager when I tried that
[2021-08-28T00:30:52Z] <dilyn> imagine not knowing something so fundamentally important
[2021-08-28T00:31:00Z] <dilyn> FOSSIL is like github but on your own computer smh come on
[2021-08-28T00:47:59Z] <vladimyr> Fossil often slips under the radar which is totally unfortunate and undeserved. It even gives you a wiki.
[2021-08-28T00:50:07Z] <vladimyr> You may also like gitbug which is a distributed and offline first issue tracker made to escape GitHub's vendor lock-in https://github.com/MichaelMure/git-bug
[2021-08-28T00:57:00Z] <dilyn> i believe micro_O is making use of git-bug rn with the websites repo
[2021-08-28T00:58:20Z] <vladimyr> Oh really, nice! Need to check that out...
[2021-08-28T01:09:54Z] <acheam> Git bug requires go though
[2021-08-28T01:12:20Z] <vladimyr> If you prefer c solution fossil is the clear winner there
[2021-08-28T01:17:27Z] <vladimyr> Here is the real-life example showcasing version control, releases, issue tracking, and wiki all done using fossil http://appfs.rkeene.org/web/home (also appfs is an interesting project on its own merit)
[2021-08-28T01:22:49Z] <acheam> Mosr of us have seen fossil :)
[2021-08-28T01:22:58Z] <vladimyr> Did anyone actually measure the contrast between background and text (in dark mode) on the community website? I really like those colors and have pretty good vision but still, the contrast seems a bit too low.
[2021-08-28T01:23:59Z] <acheam> Probably not
[2021-08-28T01:24:22Z] <acheam> I gave the same feedback
[2021-08-28T01:30:28Z] <dilyn> testuser: we should find a new logo per https://github.com/kisslinux/website/issues/88
[2021-08-28T01:33:03Z] <acheam> You should change the subtitle too
[2021-08-28T01:33:35Z] <acheam> I feel like its a bit unfair not to at least mention that we exist
[2021-08-28T01:33:44Z] <acheam> With a large disclaimer that its Unnofficial
[2021-08-28T01:36:48Z] <dilyn> dylan can do whatever he wants :v
[2021-08-28T01:37:01Z] <acheam> Not on my watch!
[2021-08-28T01:37:14Z] <dilyn> lol
[2021-08-28T01:37:19Z] <dilyn> good call on the subtitle
[2021-08-28T01:37:22Z] <dilyn> what should it be hmhmhm
[2021-08-28T01:38:20Z] <dilyn> "An indepedent and unofficial community organization for KISS Linux"?
[2021-08-28T01:39:02Z] <acheam> Sure
[2021-08-28T01:39:54Z] <dilyn> lol
[2021-08-28T01:40:00Z] <dilyn> shrug harder, acheam!
[2021-08-28T01:43:08Z] <acheam> 🤷
[2021-08-28T01:53:39Z] <vladimyr> So community repo is now considered a fork? 🤔
[2021-08-28T01:55:02Z] <dilyn> it's not a fork because we don't maintain any versions of anything that exist in the kisslinux org
[2021-08-28T01:55:06Z] <dilyn> we're more akin to the AUR than a fork
[2021-08-28T01:55:41Z] <dilyn> though wyvertux and gkiss etcetc would probably fall under the umbrella of KISS-Community if they would like to be, in which case we are not MERELY a fork but a collection of projects, some of which are proper forks
[2021-08-28T01:56:52Z] <vladimyr> I mean considered as fork by Dylan
[2021-08-28T01:57:07Z] <acheam> Still no
[2021-08-28T01:58:44Z] <vladimyr> Hmm, I guess I'm missing something then because KISS wiki says many forks of KISS Linux: https://kisslinux.org/wiki/forks
[2021-08-28T02:00:31Z] <vladimyr> Maybe community gets linked from /repositories wiki page
[2021-08-28T02:01:03Z] <dilyn> yeah but none of those mention kiss-community :v
[2021-08-28T02:01:20Z] <vladimyr> Not yet, I guess
[2021-08-28T02:02:06Z] <vladimyr> Now when I think about it even AUR has Arch in its name...
[2021-08-28T02:14:16Z] <m3g> There's a way with gtk3 for wayland emacs, and then you can't just have harf/freet/cairo without pgtk. ree
[2021-08-28T02:19:43Z] <m3g> https://0x0.st/-txP.txt is as far as I got, and I didn't get why
[2021-08-28T02:20:49Z] <dilyn> segfault? interesting
[2021-08-28T02:21:08Z] <dilyn> what are your cflags?
[2021-08-28T02:21:29Z] <m3g> -march=native -mtune=native -pipe -O3
[2021-08-28T02:21:34Z] <m3g> maybe O3 broke it
[2021-08-28T02:21:44Z] <dilyn> sounds like GNU :V :V :V
[2021-08-28T02:21:51Z] <m3g> yeah
[2021-08-28T02:21:56Z] <m3g> dunno how to degnu
[2021-08-28T02:22:03Z] <m3g> and AR fails at libgnu.a
[2021-08-28T02:23:01Z] <m3g> even if I interchange with llvm-as and regular busybox ar
[2021-08-28T02:23:13Z] <noocsharp> "An independent and unofficial community organization for KISS Linux unassociated and distinct from the official KISS Linux"
[2021-08-28T02:24:06Z] <m3g> emacs got booted yeah, but my -nox build leaves me bummed that it can only display asci
[2021-08-28T02:25:14Z] <m3g> uemacs doesn't have this problem, yet again...
[2021-08-28T02:33:15Z] <dilyn> "unsanctioned, unassociated, unofficial, unendorsed"
[2021-08-28T02:33:18Z] <dilyn> raw, uncut
[2021-08-28T02:36:22Z] <noocsharp> "A raw and uncut community organization for KISS Linux"
[2021-08-28T02:37:07Z] <dilyn> "Community members gone wild"
[2021-08-28T02:37:12Z] <dilyn> they love (to) KISS
[2021-08-28T02:37:33Z] <acheam> Thats the one
[2021-08-28T02:45:45Z] <vladimyr> Not really a logo but could work as a page banner https://peewee.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/07/vintage-kissing-booth.jpg :D
[2021-08-28T02:46:17Z] <dilyn> incredible
[2021-08-28T03:10:04Z] <travankor> what's the benefit of going from runit -> s6 (without s6-rc) ?
[2021-08-28T03:10:28Z] <travankor> from the tidbits section of the website
[2021-08-28T03:15:06Z] <rio6> why no s6-rc?
[2021-08-28T03:17:10Z] <travankor> https://user-images.githubusercontent.com/6799467/131117754-19c534ab-def9-4014-be43-2a18479ff437.png
[2021-08-28T03:21:51Z] <acheam> hmm oh yeah interesting that he is using s6
[2021-08-28T03:35:32Z] <testuser[m]> Hi
[2021-08-28T03:35:59Z] <acheam> 10 min early today!
[2021-08-28T03:37:37Z] <testuser[m]> i have a test in few min lol
[2021-08-28T03:39:38Z] <acheam> good luck!
[2021-08-28T03:39:46Z] <testuser[m]> Thanks
[2021-08-28T04:13:25Z] <dilyn> s6 is pretty sane, whereas runit is strange and confusing
[2021-08-28T04:13:37Z] <dilyn> it's probably faster to use s6 than runit thanks to execline
[2021-08-28T04:23:29Z] <acheam> I was always too scared to mess with init lol
[2021-08-28T04:29:08Z] <travankor> dilyn: by strange and confusing do you mean the symlinking part?
[2021-08-28T04:29:22Z] <dilyn> lol
[2021-08-28T04:29:37Z] <dilyn> by strange and confusing I mean there's a reason that distributions stopped using things like runit
[2021-08-28T04:29:58Z] <travankor> like with systemd :v
[2021-08-28T04:30:14Z] <dilyn> s6 in my (limited) experience eases the qualms people had with not-systemd that caused them to adopt systemd
[2021-08-28T04:30:16Z] <dilyn> yes haha
[2021-08-28T04:30:47Z] <travankor> huh, i thought s6 was more or less the same as runit with some extra goodies
[2021-08-28T04:31:39Z] <acheam> nope, but inspired somewhat by it
[2021-08-28T04:31:46Z] <acheam> https://skarnet.org/software/s6/
[2021-08-28T04:32:08Z] <acheam> GNU make tho :(
[2021-08-28T04:32:29Z] <travankor> does s6 use the filesystem like runit, like down files
[2021-08-28T04:32:52Z] <acheam> idk
[2021-08-28T04:33:59Z] <travankor> acheam: you do know that bsd make is different for each of the bsd systems :P
[2021-08-28T04:34:38Z] <acheam> yes
[2021-08-28T04:34:44Z] <travankor> bmake that's packaged is the netbsd one
[2021-08-28T04:34:47Z] <acheam> yes
[2021-08-28T04:35:52Z] <acheam> whats your point?
[2021-08-28T04:36:55Z] <travankor> uhh, i didn't really have one
[2021-08-28T04:37:02Z] <acheam> Lol
[2021-08-28T04:50:58Z] <dilyn> lol
[2021-08-28T04:51:19Z] <dilyn> for s6 the services are compiled
[2021-08-28T04:51:41Z] <dilyn> there's a whole entire mereology for what an s6 service setup looks like and it's quite unique
[2021-08-28T06:12:00Z] <dilyn> http://ix.io/3xbX zfs so gross
[2021-08-28T06:13:12Z] <testuser[m]> Bru
[2021-08-28T06:13:14Z] <testuser[m]> h
[2021-08-28T06:13:40Z] <dilyn> breh
[2021-08-28T06:46:16Z] <riteo> hiiii!
[2021-08-28T06:46:37Z] <testuser[m]> hiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiii
[2021-08-28T06:47:16Z] <riteo> I see that git caching made it into kiss, nice!
[2021-08-28T07:10:02Z] <testuser[m]> dilyn what did you do to kiss-me repo that you had to recreate it
[2021-08-28T07:10:38Z] <dilyn> the github version diverged from my local version when i switched it to being a mirror of a fossil repo
[2021-08-28T07:10:56Z] <dilyn> i tried to force-push to rewrite everything but it wouldn't take
[2021-08-28T07:33:39Z] <dilyn> :O mcf has a patch that allows elftoolchain to build the kernel...
[2021-08-28T07:33:59Z] <dilyn> lads we're down to 3 gpl packages
[2021-08-28T07:34:07Z] <testuser[m]> whats an elftoolchain
[2021-08-28T07:34:16Z] <testuser[m]> reimplement those 3 now
[2021-08-28T07:37:43Z] <dilyn> elftoolchain is a bsd licensed elfutils
[2021-08-28T07:37:57Z] <dilyn> the three are alsa-{lib,utils} and linux-headers :P
[2021-08-28T07:37:58Z] <riteo> dilyn: technically those aren't 3...
[2021-08-28T07:38:04Z] <riteo> there's a fourth, the final boss
[2021-08-28T07:38:09Z] <dilyn> so really, two. and those two are for chromium xD
[2021-08-28T07:38:09Z] <riteo> the linux kernel
[2021-08-28T07:38:16Z] <dilyn> well the kernel is ancillary to the project
[2021-08-28T07:38:17Z] <testuser[m]> just dont use audio bruh
[2021-08-28T07:38:40Z] <dilyn> that was a thought
[2021-08-28T07:38:45Z] <riteo> these millenials shm my head
[2021-08-28T07:38:51Z] <dilyn> but I've been binging dropout and critical roll for two weeks. I kind of need audio atm
[2021-08-28T07:39:09Z] <riteo> just read subtitles smh
[2021-08-28T07:39:50Z] <riteo> when they say [intense music] just pump adrenaline in your veins
[2021-08-28T07:40:07Z] <testuser[m]> are you consuming proprietary streaming services dilyn
[2021-08-28T07:41:43Z] <GalaxyNova> What is a freestanding alternative to less that is not GNU less
[2021-08-28T07:42:07Z] <riteo> freestanding?
[2021-08-28T07:42:10Z] <riteo> oh now I get it
[2021-08-28T07:42:14Z] <testuser[m]> most
[2021-08-28T07:42:22Z] <GalaxyNova> lol most
[2021-08-28T07:42:27Z] <riteo> yeah use that one
[2021-08-28T07:42:32Z] <riteo> and yes those names are hilarious
[2021-08-28T07:42:45Z] <GalaxyNova> I created the most package in community
[2021-08-28T07:42:54Z] <riteo> oh
[2021-08-28T07:42:58Z] <testuser[m]> that's the joke
[2021-08-28T07:43:05Z] <riteo> I feel dumb
[2021-08-28T07:43:10Z] <GalaxyNova> xD
[2021-08-28T07:43:10Z] <testuser[m]> i guess you could extract less from busybox
[2021-08-28T07:43:12Z] <riteo> so why not most? Isn't it like a less alternative?
[2021-08-28T07:43:21Z] <riteo> well you can compile busybox with only less in it
[2021-08-28T07:43:25Z] <GalaxyNova> it has a lot more features
[2021-08-28T07:43:29Z] <GalaxyNova> than less
[2021-08-28T07:43:52Z] <GalaxyNova> and it needs s-lang which is an extra 5 megabyte dependency only for a pager :/
[2021-08-28T07:43:58Z] <riteo> bruh
[2021-08-28T07:44:08Z] <riteo> well then try compiling busybox with only less in it
[2021-08-28T07:44:28Z] <riteo> ig you can just rename the resulting binary as "less" and be done
[2021-08-28T07:44:59Z] <GalaxyNova> possibly
[2021-08-28T07:45:15Z] <GalaxyNova> I was hoping I'd be able to completely purge busybox from my system
[2021-08-28T07:45:21Z] <riteo> gpl?
[2021-08-28T07:45:52Z] <testuser[m]> you want a pager just for regular use right not argument compatbility
[2021-08-28T07:45:58Z] <GalaxyNova> nah just realized I don't like that it's got so many different programs in the same project
[2021-08-28T07:46:03Z] <testuser[m]> just pipe it into your editor
[2021-08-28T07:46:15Z] <riteo> ooh good idea
[2021-08-28T07:46:21Z] <GalaxyNova> ah
[2021-08-28T07:46:23Z] <riteo> at least in my case kak is a nice pager
[2021-08-28T07:46:26Z] <GalaxyNova> would that work for man pages though?
[2021-08-28T07:46:38Z] <testuser[m]> no
[2021-08-28T07:47:10Z] <GalaxyNova> -_-
[2021-08-28T07:47:16Z] <riteo> I mean, you can set the pager externally with kak or vi
[2021-08-28T07:47:21Z] <riteo> but it's very broken
[2021-08-28T07:47:50Z] <riteo> maybe you can disable formatting?
[2021-08-28T07:48:21Z] <GalaxyNova> mfw, isn't there openbsd less ported to linux or something?
[2021-08-28T07:48:49Z] <testuser[m]> whats wrong with having many diff coreutils in 1 package
[2021-08-28T07:48:57Z] <testuser[m]> would you want 200 packages for ls, wc ...
[2021-08-28T07:49:37Z] <riteo> also thinking about it, still, why not just compile less and that's it?
[2021-08-28T07:49:39Z] <dilyn> just use vim!
[2021-08-28T07:49:39Z] <riteo> it's still one package
[2021-08-28T07:49:46Z] <GalaxyNova> Well if id had just coreutils that'd be fine but it also has vi, init system, a shell, and a bunch of other stuff
[2021-08-28T07:50:02Z] <testuser[m]> you can just not build them
[2021-08-28T07:50:25Z] <riteo> dilyn: in my case it's all broken with both vi and kak, does vim handle man pages better?
[2021-08-28T07:50:35Z] <dilyn> oh man i have no idea
[2021-08-28T07:50:39Z] <dilyn> i don't use manpages
[2021-08-28T07:50:51Z] <GalaxyNova> wait really?
[2021-08-28T07:50:57Z] <dilyn> ls: /usr/share/man: No such file or directory
[2021-08-28T07:51:10Z] <GalaxyNova> uh, how do you read manuals then
[2021-08-28T07:51:29Z] <dilyn> if I need them I just look them up online
[2021-08-28T07:51:33Z] <dilyn> I live in the future, you see
[2021-08-28T07:51:44Z] <riteo> lmao
[2021-08-28T07:51:52Z] <riteo> I still prefer my man pages offline, thank you
[2021-08-28T07:52:19Z] <riteo> anyways why are man pages so broken? Why does every character have some weird character in between?
[2021-08-28T07:52:30Z] <GalaxyNova> When Lennart pushes systemd-backdoord and half the internet goes down I'll still have my offline documentation!
[2021-08-28T07:52:49Z] <testuser[m]> show jpg riteo
[2021-08-28T07:52:53Z] <testuser[m]> it seems fine to me
[2021-08-28T07:53:15Z] <riteo> ermh gimme a second, I've still not installed a screenshot tool in there, I'm on my laptop rn
[2021-08-28T07:53:24Z] <dilyn> by then I'll have memorized everything i'll need :P
[2021-08-28T07:53:32Z] <GalaxyNova> xD
[2021-08-28T07:53:47Z] <riteo> megamind
[2021-08-28T07:54:20Z] <testuser[m]> whats wrong with gnu les sbtw
[2021-08-28T07:54:34Z] <testuser[m]> its only 200kb
[2021-08-28T07:54:34Z] <GalaxyNova> > gnu
[2021-08-28T07:54:41Z] <riteo> that's right
[2021-08-28T07:54:53Z] <GalaxyNova> "only" 200kb
[2021-08-28T07:54:56Z] <riteo> lmao
[2021-08-28T07:56:25Z] <riteo> wait what software is there for screenshotting on wayland
[2021-08-28T07:56:33Z] <testuser[m]> none
[2021-08-28T07:56:35Z] <GalaxyNova> grim / slurp is great
[2021-08-28T07:56:39Z] <testuser[m]> o
[2021-08-28T07:56:42Z] <testuser[m]> i thought screensahring
[2021-08-28T07:56:43Z] <testuser[m]> sharing*
[2021-08-28T07:56:50Z] <riteo> no worries
[2021-08-28T07:57:25Z] <riteo> wait do I need to install them both
[2021-08-28T07:57:30Z] <riteo> why are those two separate programs
[2021-08-28T07:57:40Z] <testuser[m]> its 148kb GalaxyNova if you build it with -Os
[2021-08-28T07:57:51Z] <testuser[m]> grim for ss slurp for selecting area
[2021-08-28T07:58:00Z] <GalaxyNova> riteo: grim takes a full screen screenshot and slurp can select a screen area to screanshot
[2021-08-28T07:58:00Z] <riteo> oh I see
[2021-08-28T07:58:01Z] <testuser[m]> the size is probably cuz ofncurses
[2021-08-28T07:58:14Z] <testuser[m]> https://github.com/swaywm/sway/blob/master/contrib/grimshot use this
[2021-08-28T07:58:51Z] <riteo> cool! I'll do
[2021-08-28T07:59:24Z] <riteo> btw it's still pretty big, considering that on my machine busybox is 904kb
[2021-08-28T07:59:25Z] <phoebos[m]> riteo: pipe the output of man through col -bx before your editor
[2021-08-28T07:59:26Z] <GalaxyNova> micro_O: Is there a possibility of creating a symlink package in wyverkiss called ncurses that links to netbsd-curses?
[2021-08-28T07:59:56Z] <testuser[m]> why not
[2021-08-28T08:00:04Z] <testuser[m]> most programs just wont build
[2021-08-28T08:00:09Z] <riteo> phoebos[m]: it works! Why's that?
[2021-08-28T08:00:40Z] <testuser[m]> where'd you get your cols from
[2021-08-28T08:00:46Z] <testuser[m]> busybox doesnt seem to have it
[2021-08-28T08:00:48Z] <phoebos[m]> col strips the control chars which usually make the headings bold etc
[2021-08-28T08:01:07Z] <riteo> testuser[m]: idk, lemme see
[2021-08-28T08:01:12Z] <testuser[m]> util-linux ?
[2021-08-28T08:01:14Z] <phoebos[m]> col, not cols testuser
[2021-08-28T08:01:27Z] <testuser[m]> cols = implementations of col
[2021-08-28T08:01:34Z] <riteo> util-linux
[2021-08-28T08:01:39Z] <riteo> it comes from there
[2021-08-28T08:01:46Z] <phoebos[m]> ah
[2021-08-28T08:02:27Z] <riteo> btw on more they don't look bold
[2021-08-28T08:02:33Z] <riteo> so it's... Useless formatting?
[2021-08-28T08:02:37Z] <testuser[m]> cuz it stripped
[2021-08-28T08:02:46Z] <riteo> nono, with more it doesn't need any of that
[2021-08-28T08:02:54Z] <riteo> it's the default with man
[2021-08-28T08:03:03Z] <riteo> I just did `man man`
[2021-08-28T08:05:30Z] <riteo> testuser[m]: do I just install that binary inside of ~/.local/bin
[2021-08-28T08:05:50Z] <riteo> "binary", I meant script
[2021-08-28T08:05:54Z] <testuser[m]> yea
[2021-08-28T08:06:32Z] <riteo> do I really need notify-send
[2021-08-28T08:06:37Z] <testuser[m]> no
[2021-08-28T08:06:40Z] <riteo> nice
[2021-08-28T08:08:11Z] <riteo> ok I installed it and it made me select a region with a really nice interface
[2021-08-28T08:08:21Z] <testuser[m]> wat
[2021-08-28T08:08:24Z] <testuser[m]> aoh
[2021-08-28T08:08:33Z] <riteo> it's very fancy stuff for me
[2021-08-28T08:08:48Z] <riteo> on my main broken install of arch it just showed a rectangle where I dragged
[2021-08-28T08:09:13Z] <testuser[m]> isnt that what its supposed to do
[2021-08-28T08:09:30Z] <riteo> yeah but this one's fancier
[2021-08-28T08:09:36Z] <riteo> this one makes the foreground slightly whiter and clears it up where I select, even showing it's resolution
[2021-08-28T08:10:00Z] <riteo> it's really nice
[2021-08-28T08:10:26Z] <riteo> epic, now I got a way to make pictures of my screen but no image viewer lmao
[2021-08-28T08:11:37Z] <riteo> did the wiki/wayland/alternatives page go away?
[2021-08-28T08:14:09Z] <riteo> wait, if imv is not in the community repos, then what image viewer do you all use?
[2021-08-28T08:14:56Z] <GalaxyNova> mpv
[2021-08-28T08:15:01Z] <testuser[m]> https://gist.github.com/Rapptz/4a2f62751b9600a31a0d3c78100287f1#FAQ
[2021-08-28T08:15:07Z] <testuser[m]> yeah mpv rieto
[2021-08-28T08:15:08Z] <testuser[m]> riteo
[2021-08-28T08:15:21Z] <riteo> wait is it really usable as an image viewer
[2021-08-28T08:15:30Z] <testuser[m]> perhaps
[2021-08-28T08:15:41Z] <testuser[m]> https://github.com/occivink/mpv-image-viewer
[2021-08-28T08:15:57Z] <testuser[m]> just symlink input.conf, mpv.conf, scripts and script-opts from this repo to ~/.config/mpv/
[2021-08-28T08:17:22Z] <riteo> that's... interesting
[2021-08-28T08:17:44Z] <riteo> I'll look into it
[2021-08-28T08:19:39Z] <dilyn> screensharing is possible on wayland, it just requires dbus
[2021-08-28T08:19:46Z] <riteo> "just"
[2021-08-28T08:19:54Z] <dilyn> and some part of the spec I've forgotten the name of
[2021-08-28T08:20:00Z] <dilyn> i mean dbus is small :P
[2021-08-28T08:20:01Z] <GalaxyNova> also screen recording needs pipewire or something
[2021-08-28T08:20:05Z] <testuser[m]> poopwirte
[2021-08-28T08:20:08Z] <testuser[m]> poopwire
[2021-08-28T08:20:14Z] <dilyn> but pipewire only requires dbus and alsa!
[2021-08-28T08:20:16Z] <dilyn> so
[2021-08-28T08:20:20Z] <GalaxyNova> mfw
[2021-08-28T08:20:26Z] <riteo> bruh
[2021-08-28T08:20:41Z] <dilyn> ipc is useful folx
[2021-08-28T08:21:19Z] <GalaxyNova> just use unix sockets smh
[2021-08-28T08:21:47Z] <riteo> wait wasn't the whole point of pipes and whatnot to provide IPC
[2021-08-28T08:22:31Z] <testuser[m]> its a "modern" version of em
[2021-08-28T08:23:53Z] <riteo> why does modern mean more complex nowadays
[2021-08-28T08:24:29Z] <testuser[m]> thats the definition of modern
[2021-08-28T08:24:43Z] <riteo> bruh
[2021-08-28T08:25:30Z] <GalaxyNova> there are exceptions
[2021-08-28T08:25:37Z] <GalaxyNova> wayland is a good modern thing
[2021-08-28T08:27:52Z] <riteo> I would like to say that modern means "catered to actual requirements, removing unneeded historical baggage, but most of the time actual requirements become the most shitty thing ever
[2021-08-28T08:28:05Z] <riteo> "b-b-but it must be scalable!!!!!"
[2021-08-28T08:28:29Z] <riteo> GalaxyNova: yeah, wayland isn't that bad at all, I actually kinda like its protocol-based approach at stuff
[2021-08-28T08:29:01Z] <noocsharp> is there a screensharing wayland protocol?
[2021-08-28T08:29:02Z] <testuser[m]> Enterprise grade
[2021-08-28T08:29:23Z] <riteo> also at first I thought it was a bad idea to merge compositors and window managers into one thing but thinking about it compositors did stuff that WMs should already have done in the first place
[2021-08-28T08:29:55Z] <riteo> also, correct me if I'm wrong, but weren't compositors more like a thing added later? Kinda like an hack?
[2021-08-28T08:30:01Z] <riteo> why where they separate in the first place?
[2021-08-28T08:35:17Z] <riteo> uh it looks like it was an extension added later, so I was kinda right on that one
[2021-08-28T08:36:02Z] <dilyn> noocsharp: https://wayland.app/protocols/wlr-screencopy-unstable-v1
[2021-08-28T08:36:13Z] <dilyn> it's supported by sway and wayfire off the top of my head
[2021-08-28T08:37:22Z] <riteo> well, small things aside, talking about wayland does anybody know if "libinput debug-events" is supposed to work while its window is not focused?
[2021-08-28T08:37:46Z] <riteo> I thought wayland was supposed to isolate input between processes
[2021-08-28T08:49:33Z] <dilyn> does anybody get an error like this building the kernel (5.13.3 in my case) with LTO_CLANG enabled (either full or thin)
[2021-08-28T08:49:33Z] <dilyn> vmlinux.o: warning: objtool: elf_getdata: Invalid section descriptor
[2021-08-28T09:09:29Z] <riteo> LMAO I found the best reddit thread ever: https://libredd.it/r/linux/comments/lx7rgw/x_vs_wayland_compositors/gpmsmra/?context=3
[2021-08-28T09:13:43Z] <testuser[m]> Hmm it's been a whole week since schillingklaus shat on wayland
[2021-08-28T09:13:47Z] <testuser[m]> a new record
[2021-08-28T09:14:27Z] <riteo> who?
[2021-08-28T09:15:13Z] <testuser[m]> schilling
[2021-08-28T09:15:51Z] <testuser[m]> Dude just comes to give a one line message with contents "xyz is bad" every few days in every irc channel
[2021-08-28T09:15:52Z] <testuser[m]> lol
[2021-08-28T09:15:56Z] <riteo> ah lmao
[2021-08-28T09:16:03Z] <riteo> I thought it was some famous person and got confused
[2021-08-28T09:16:27Z] <riteo> omg that dude that wrote that amazing thread always writes posts like that one: https://libredd.it/user/Linux-SystemSuperior
[2021-08-28T09:16:45Z] <riteo> their own username is a piece of art by itself
[2021-08-28T09:17:11Z] <riteo> > Windows is a "Haha OS", a joker's "operating system" (lol).
[2021-08-28T09:17:21Z] <riteo> this is premium copypasta material
[2021-08-28T09:17:39Z] <travankor> is the schilling's reddit account?
[2021-08-28T09:17:59Z] <riteo> I have no idea, it's called Linux-SystemSuperior lmao
[2021-08-28T09:18:18Z] <testuser[m]> no its some random acc
[2021-08-28T09:18:34Z] <riteo> idk, does schilling say "CYA!!!! DUMBASS!!!" and then come back at least 10 times saying they won't come back anymore?
[2021-08-28T09:18:44Z] <testuser[m]> no
[2021-08-28T09:18:46Z] <travankor> >Yuck. I have 64GB of RAM and even THAT isn't enough for some Minecraft mod configs.
[2021-08-28T09:18:49Z] <travankor> lmao
[2021-08-28T09:19:00Z] <riteo> this account has to be preserved
[2021-08-28T09:19:21Z] <riteo> > Lol - Application (not "App") Store. Haha, Yuck. would NEVER use that. On ANY device. Can't STAND them!
[2021-08-28T09:19:27Z] <riteo> dude hasn't a phone
[2021-08-28T09:20:10Z] <riteo> wait, steam is a store
[2021-08-28T09:20:17Z] <riteo> this is a troll 100%
[2021-08-28T09:20:41Z] <riteo> > I've been using Linux since 1998. Was (am still!) absolutely OBSESSED with Linux, even tho I hadn't used it at the time I heard about it. These days I only use Linux and I'm primarily a gamer, NO Windows AT ALL, not even in VM. Yes, i use Linux for gaming, as a gamer.
[2021-08-28T09:21:06Z] <riteo> do they always talk about compositing
[2021-08-28T09:22:02Z] <riteo> travankor: > On my rig, Minecraft uses at least 30GB of RAM and performance TANKS on Windows
[2021-08-28T09:22:37Z] <riteo> omg I'm only finding good stuff, last quote and I'll stop, I promise:
[2021-08-28T09:22:39Z] <riteo> > Also - Linux is FAR more FUN! Playing games (any game) on Windows is impossible for me as it's like watching paint dry. Yes, i would MUCH rather play a WINE game than do it on Windows (lol - Windows for gaming, haha).
[2021-08-28T09:22:52Z] <testuser[m]> bruh
[2021-08-28T09:26:34Z] <riteo> so we got this person in their thirties which are married for 19 years, plays 24/7 like a TRUE GAMER, hates wayland WITH PASSION, calls windows the JOKER OPERATING SYSTEM, plays at minecraft with every mod ever created, uses windows since 1998, doesn't use app stores and keeps their computer always on with some game open ready to scream about their superiority on reddit
[2021-08-28T09:27:22Z] <testuser[m]> I doubt they're even halfway to their thirtie
[2021-08-28T09:27:23Z] <testuser[m]> s
[2021-08-28T09:28:14Z] <riteo> idk, that's an interesting use of internet jargon
[2021-08-28T09:28:48Z] <riteo> their jargon is primarily made of LOL, all caps, silly namecalling and "haha"s
[2021-08-28T09:29:37Z] <riteo> I can see a 35 old man who hates his wife do that
[2021-08-28T09:29:50Z] <riteo> or, as usual, this could be an extremely elaborate troll
[2021-08-28T09:30:06Z] <riteo> both ways this is fun as hell
[2021-08-28T09:31:04Z] <travankor> i don't think that person is married :p
[2021-08-28T09:31:23Z] <riteo> lmao they always put (lol) after Windows, like if it were (tm)
[2021-08-28T09:31:26Z] <riteo> Windows (lol)
[2021-08-28T09:32:22Z] <travankor> winl0lz
[2021-08-28T09:32:28Z] <riteo> oh my god they said that they have 62 TBs of storage
[2021-08-28T09:32:35Z] <riteo> that's the truest of gamers
[2021-08-28T09:33:07Z] <riteo> GAMING 24/7 with their HIGH SPEED 62 TB NAS storing every game ever created
[2021-08-28T09:33:18Z] <testuser[m]> loldows
[2021-08-28T09:33:22Z] <riteo> probably half of it is dedicated only to minecraft mods lmao
[2021-08-28T09:33:35Z] <travankor> that guy and fungalnet would make an interesting pair
[2021-08-28T09:34:40Z] <riteo> omg who is fungalnet now
[2021-08-28T09:34:48Z] <riteo> I looked it up and finished in an interesting blog
[2021-08-28T09:34:53Z] <riteo> interesting for the wrong reasons though
[2021-08-28T09:35:07Z] <testuser[m]> sysdfree
[2021-08-28T09:35:20Z] <testuser[m]> https://libredd.it/r/kisslinux/comments/p6dnt7/help_a_new_guy_out_how_does_chcpcd_work/
[2021-08-28T09:35:54Z] <riteo> https://sysdfree.wordpress.com/2021/08/25/348/ omg schillingklaus commented too
[2021-08-28T09:35:55Z] <testuser[m]> then here he proceeds to praise kiss again https://libredd.it/r/kisslinux/comments/p76bf7/if_i_dont_update_for_a_while_would_i_have_some/h9tyfvb/?context=3
[2021-08-28T09:36:11Z] <riteo> also btw this blog called everyone here against kiss values
[2021-08-28T09:36:32Z] <riteo> "hurr durr the big leader dylan restructured everything because the community wasn't kiss, luckily he restructured everything"
[2021-08-28T09:36:41Z] <riteo> also lmao they called dylan "he" and then specified who
[2021-08-28T09:36:41Z] <testuser[m]> no fungalnet just has issues with reading comprehension
[2021-08-28T09:36:50Z] <riteo> like it's some cult or something lmao
[2021-08-28T09:37:03Z] <testuser[m]> Before anyone knew it, Kiss community violating the principles was more Kiss than Kiss itself, and the community’s looser principles (or lack there of) were characterizing Kiss more than it could maintain character itself.
[2021-08-28T09:37:38Z] <riteo> wait is this part of the reading comprehension or did they actually say that
[2021-08-28T09:37:46Z] <riteo> s/say/mean/
[2021-08-28T09:37:58Z] <testuser[m]> that's what they wrote
[2021-08-28T09:38:29Z] <riteo> yeah, buy did they mean what I said before or was it that reading comprehension thing
[2021-08-28T09:39:20Z] <testuser[m]> no i was just saying they have (or pretend to have) trouble understanding stuff
[2021-08-28T09:39:23Z] <testuser[m]> check the reddit thread
[2021-08-28T09:39:28Z] <testuser[m]> the "chcpcd" one
[2021-08-28T09:39:46Z] <riteo> I'll do
[2021-08-28T09:45:56Z] <riteo> oh
[2021-08-28T09:45:57Z] <riteo> my
[2021-08-28T09:45:58Z] <riteo> god
[2021-08-28T09:46:10Z] <riteo> this was the weirdest experience I've ever had
[2021-08-28T09:46:49Z] <riteo> at first it was funny but now my head hurts a little
[2021-08-28T09:48:30Z] <riteo> > Kiss is much simpler than Arch, it is K.I.S.genius
[2021-08-28T09:48:43Z] <riteo> I don't think that's how acronyms work
[2021-08-28T09:50:02Z] <riteo> lmao from the list of healthy distro from their blog: Kiss Linux –> kisslinux.org (New and even more promising – independent from community influence)
[2021-08-28T09:50:43Z] <riteo> does fungal use only repo with their system
[2021-08-28T09:53:38Z] <riteo> well, I have to go for now, cya!
[2021-08-28T10:25:17Z] <konimex> > their jargon is primarily made of LOL, all caps, silly namecalling and "haha"s
[2021-08-28T10:25:23Z] <konimex> put away the LOLS, all caps, and "haha"s and it can be pretty much applied to some people here tbf
[2021-08-28T10:37:14Z] <dilyn> ^
[2021-08-28T10:39:20Z] <dilyn> some of those people are gonna have fucking coniption when they see my new email o.o
[2021-08-28T10:47:17Z] <konimex> by email you meant mailing list email or something else? since I don't know if the mailing list was deactivated after Dylan decided not to use any at all
[2021-08-28T10:49:03Z] <dilyn> my email address, sorry
[2021-08-28T10:49:36Z] <dilyn> the mailing list will return sunday evening if somebody jumps on me for it; something dramatic happened in my personal life that sort of consumed all the time I wanted to devote towards community-facing things :o
[2021-08-28T10:49:41Z] <dilyn> sorry all, but self-care comes first
[2021-08-28T10:52:27Z] <vladimyr> Wish you quick and easy going back to normal
[2021-08-28T10:55:13Z] <dilyn> we'll get there (: ty
[2021-08-28T11:04:40Z] <testuser[m]> soon
[2021-08-28T11:08:46Z] <dilyn> soon(tm)
[2021-08-28T11:08:54Z] <dilyn> knowing me... six years
[2021-08-28T12:27:50Z] <acheam> Vim has a built in manpager
[2021-08-28T12:29:09Z] <cem> I was gonna mock it, and then remembered that Emacs does too
[2021-08-28T12:29:31Z] <acheam> You don't get to mock another editor being bloated
[2021-08-28T12:29:50Z] <cem> I can mock vim however I like
[2021-08-28T12:29:54Z] <acheam> You have 2 manpagers actually!
[2021-08-28T12:29:54Z] <cem> emacs ain't an editor
[2021-08-28T12:29:55Z] <cem> vim is
[2021-08-28T12:30:04Z] <acheam> Fair
[2021-08-28T12:30:12Z] <cem> your point is fair as well
[2021-08-28T12:30:16Z] <cem> :D
[2021-08-28T12:31:19Z] <cem> also that reddit thread
[2021-08-28T12:31:22Z] <cem> dude needs a chill out
[2021-08-28T13:47:57Z] <ang> https://termbin.com/75xw
[2021-08-28T13:48:10Z] <ang> I thought maybe some1 has a use for this
[2021-08-28T13:50:44Z] <ang> it prints an acme compatible file:line:char address of lines longer than a certain length
[2021-08-28T14:30:55Z] <acheam> Why 74!
[2021-08-28T14:31:03Z] <acheam> s/!/?/g
[2021-08-28T14:47:54Z] <phoebos> is `VAR [?+:]=` foo posix Makefile?
[2021-08-28T14:48:01Z] <phoebos> or just VAR = foo
[2021-08-28T14:48:10Z] <testuser[m]> just run it with bmake to see
[2021-08-28T14:48:40Z] <phoebos> i think bmake supports it, but is it posix
[2021-08-28T14:49:39Z] <cem> Not afaik
[2021-08-28T14:49:55Z] <cem> You can do VAR = foo
[2021-08-28T14:50:00Z] <cem> VAR = ${VAR} bar
[2021-08-28T14:50:57Z] <testuser[m]> i guess you can do
[2021-08-28T14:51:18Z] <testuser[m]> VAR = `echo ${VAR:-1}`
[2021-08-28T14:51:20Z] <testuser[m]> idk if itll work
[2021-08-28T14:51:23Z] <testuser[m]> but it seems horrible
[2021-08-28T14:51:27Z] <phoebos> VAR = ${VAR} bar gives a recursion error with gmake
[2021-08-28T14:51:48Z] <cem> Add a line `.POSIX:`
[2021-08-28T14:51:52Z] <cem> to the end
[2021-08-28T14:52:24Z] <phoebos> not the beginning?
[2021-08-28T14:52:34Z] <testuser[m]> it doesnt matter
[2021-08-28T14:52:35Z] <testuser[m]> i think
[2021-08-28T14:52:43Z] <cem> Yeah, it doesn't matter
[2021-08-28T14:52:46Z] <ang> acheam, to leave space for line numbers
[2021-08-28T14:53:03Z] <testuser[m]> shouldn't it be 76 thyen
[2021-08-28T14:53:04Z] <cem> I just said the end so it gets out of the way
[2021-08-28T14:53:11Z] <acheam> unless you have a loooot of lines
[2021-08-28T14:53:24Z] <ang> tools like nl(1) tab indent line numbers
[2021-08-28T14:53:29Z] <phoebos> .POSIX doesn't help
[2021-08-28T14:53:35Z] <testuser[m]> i put POSIX: and .PHONY: target1 ... at the top
[2021-08-28T14:53:58Z] <acheam> ang: ok
[2021-08-28T14:54:12Z] <cem> Eh, using += is widely supported
[2021-08-28T14:54:33Z] <phoebos> yeah, eh.
[2021-08-28T14:55:27Z] <cem> Man, I really started liking ninja's build system
[2021-08-28T14:55:28Z] <phoebos> is there a difference between ${FOO} and $(FOO)
[2021-08-28T14:56:04Z] <testuser[m]> no
[2021-08-28T14:56:38Z] <testuser[m]> i use $() cuz it looks cleaner
[2021-08-28T14:57:00Z] <testuser[m]> but idk im not the best person to comment on makefiles
[2021-08-28T14:57:19Z] <cem> I use ${} because I always confuse it with subshell
[2021-08-28T14:57:29Z] <cem> It really doesn't matter much
[2021-08-28T14:58:34Z] <phoebos> need to ask illiliti if there's a posix way to do CFLAGS+=...
[2021-08-28T14:58:50Z] <testuser[m]> i just recurse
[2021-08-28T14:58:58Z] <testuser[m]> make target CFLAGS="$(CFLAGS) asdf"
[2021-08-28T14:58:59Z] <cem> Well, the posix way is to not do it
[2021-08-28T14:59:09Z] <phoebos> ugh
[2021-08-28T14:59:21Z] <testuser[m]> https://git.git-bruh.duckdns.org/matrix-client/file/Makefile.html
[2021-08-28T14:59:22Z] <testuser[m]> check
[2021-08-28T14:59:55Z] <cem> Yeah, merge separate variables in one
[2021-08-28T14:59:58Z] <phoebos> ah i could use a different variable name, what a dummy
[2021-08-28T15:22:34Z] <ang> acheam, just checked nl(1), you'd actually have to limit code to 72 columns to account for its default (POSIX) style of numbering and still fit within 80 columns
[2021-08-28T15:22:39Z] <ang> not that it matters though
[2021-08-28T15:35:28Z] <acheam> Oo
[2021-08-28T15:35:33Z] <acheam> OK*
[2021-08-28T15:52:57Z] <acheam> PSA: many `more` implementations are actually very good and offer a more minimal, yet very usable paging experience
[2021-08-28T15:53:08Z] <acheam> i've switched to it from less, as less contains many features that I never use
[2021-08-28T15:53:21Z] <acheam> (some more implementations suck though)
[2021-08-28T16:38:03Z] <dilyn> for a POSIX makefile the first noncommented line has to be .POSIX
[2021-08-28T16:39:51Z] <dilyn> more is 'acceptable' if you want paging and not reading, but i'd rather use cat than more :<
[2021-08-28T16:41:35Z] <cem> not being able to go back is crap
[2021-08-28T16:42:58Z] <cem> busybox less is pretty okay imo
[2021-08-28T16:43:13Z] <cem> more is straight up useless
[2021-08-28T17:06:34Z] <dilyn> more = useless -> more = (use)(less) -> more = use less -> ln -sf less ~/.local/bin/more
[2021-08-28T17:08:07Z] <acheam> Lol
[2021-08-28T17:08:14Z] <ang> I used to simply output man to the console and scroll/search with tmux
[2021-08-28T17:08:26Z] <acheam> Obsd more lets you scroll up
[2021-08-28T17:08:34Z] <acheam> And some other implementations do too
[2021-08-28T17:08:38Z] <ang> problem was always finding the beginning of the man page
[2021-08-28T17:09:05Z] <acheam> Just search for the name of the manpage?
[2021-08-28T17:09:26Z] <ang> that should work I guess
[2021-08-28T17:10:05Z] <acheam> More specifically, search for name(
[2021-08-28T17:11:19Z] <ang> ^NAME works pretty good
[2021-08-28T17:11:52Z] <ang> no need for paging anymore though, I live in acme now
[2021-08-28T17:12:33Z] <ang> acme is like emacs, you can live in the editor but its less shit
[2021-08-28T17:16:32Z] <acheam> Why don't you just use plan9?
[2021-08-28T17:17:28Z] <ang> I prefer to have a proper web-browser and mpv
[2021-08-28T17:17:56Z] <ang> hardware support is probably not good as well but I haven't researched that at all
[2021-08-28T17:45:19Z] <rio6> I use vim as my man pager
[2021-08-28T18:05:46Z] <cem> Isn't openbsd more just an old version of less?
[2021-08-28T18:08:16Z] <cem> Yeah, it is
[2021-08-28T18:10:46Z] <vladimyr> is CDDL licensed tool acceptable?
[2021-08-28T18:11:06Z] <vladimyr> https://github.com/illumos/illumos-gate/blob/master/usr/src/cmd/more/more.c
[2021-08-28T18:15:58Z] <acheam> Sure?
[2021-08-28T18:17:06Z] <acheam> cem: interesting
[2021-08-28T18:17:35Z] <cem> acheam: It's the same behaviour with LESS_IS_MORE=1
[2021-08-28T18:17:45Z] <cem> They just symlink more to less
[2021-08-28T18:17:59Z] <acheam> I don't like that though
[2021-08-28T18:18:05Z] <acheam> I like how more is simpler
[2021-08-28T18:19:14Z] <cem> Well, yeah it is simpler and POSIX and all
[2021-08-28T18:20:37Z] <cem> I just can't find a use for it where less isn't clearly the better choice
[2021-08-28T18:21:18Z] <cem> But I rarely use either, and when I do, I do it for reading, not for paging
[2021-08-28T19:39:09Z] <cot> !ping
[2021-08-28T19:39:10Z] <cotangent> [02meta] cot: what?
[2021-08-28T19:45:44Z] <acheam> yay its back
[2021-08-28T19:45:50Z] <acheam> s/yay/woohoo/g
[2021-08-28T19:45:50Z] <cotangent> <acheam> woohoo its back
[2021-08-28T20:36:33Z] <acheam> phoebos: you've convinced me to start writing more things in mdoc :)
[2021-08-28T20:36:47Z] <acheam> am converting some of my active documents from plaintext into it right now
[2021-08-28T20:37:00Z] <cem> mdoc is fantastic
[2021-08-28T20:37:18Z] <acheam> i love the idea of semantic markup
[2021-08-28T20:39:28Z] <phoebos> yay! semantic markup is super powerful and it makes sense to write
[2021-08-28T20:39:48Z] <phoebos> also no more build deps for your man pages
[2021-08-28T20:40:14Z] <acheam> i never considered scdoc to be a huge dep
[2021-08-28T20:40:23Z] <acheam> its a small portable c99 program
[2021-08-28T20:40:23Z] <cem> yeah, I've been using it for quite a while and I love
[2021-08-28T20:40:37Z] <acheam> but right now i'm converting personal documents, not manpages
[2021-08-28T20:40:47Z] <acheam> i'll do those as I work on specific projects
[2021-08-28T20:40:53Z] <phoebos> 0 deps is better than 1
[2021-08-28T20:41:01Z] <acheam> that it is
[2021-08-28T20:41:10Z] <cem> I personally don't like scdoc much
[2021-08-28T20:41:19Z] <acheam> why not? It's pretty much markdown
[2021-08-28T20:41:57Z] <cem> It's not the syntax, it's that the output documents are really plaintextish
[2021-08-28T20:42:08Z] <phoebos> nice! i experimented with replacing TeX with roff, it just took a bit too long to write but mdoc is perfect
[2021-08-28T20:42:18Z] <cem> man -Tpdf of a manpage generated with scdoc is straight up bad
[2021-08-28T20:42:24Z] <cem> Especially stuff like tables
[2021-08-28T20:42:28Z] <acheam> oh yeah I get what your saying
[2021-08-28T20:42:35Z] <acheam> but tbl(7) scares me
[2021-08-28T20:42:36Z] <phoebos> writing manpages via scdoc loses the power of semantic markup
[2021-08-28T20:42:49Z] <phoebos> tbl is straightforward
[2021-08-28T20:42:51Z] <acheam> that it does
[2021-08-28T20:43:06Z] <phoebos> i love how it all uses pipes, super unixy
[2021-08-28T20:46:58Z] <cem> Does mdoc look like a proper document?
[2021-08-28T20:47:15Z] <cem> I used to use -mom for creating some docs
[2021-08-28T20:48:14Z] <phoebos> i just switched to a man-pagey style
[2021-08-28T20:48:25Z] <phoebos> i was using -ms before
[2021-08-28T20:48:29Z] <cem> Ah, alright
[2021-08-28T20:48:50Z] <phoebos> also, acheam: you've probably seen this, but https://manpages.bsd.lv/mdoc.html is a good primer
[2021-08-28T20:49:10Z] <phoebos> afterwards, you can't beat man 7 mdoc
[2021-08-28T20:50:19Z] <acheam> I have, but thanks!
[2021-08-28T20:54:21Z] <acheam> whats this -m flag?
[2021-08-28T20:54:45Z] <acheam> "Augment the list of directories to search for manual pages." says man(1)
[2021-08-28T20:56:09Z] <acheam> ohhh mandoc(1) exists
[2021-08-28T20:56:09Z] <acheam> nvm
[2021-08-28T20:58:44Z] <acheam> wait I still dont get it
[2021-08-28T20:58:53Z] <acheam> cem, phoebos
[2021-08-28T20:59:47Z] <phoebos> I'm guessing that's like /use/share/man/manN etc
[2021-08-28T21:00:07Z] <acheam> yes
[2021-08-28T21:00:19Z] <acheam> but what did yall mean with -ms and -mom?
[2021-08-28T21:00:21Z] <cem> In mandoc, or groff or troff -m is used specify which macro to use
[2021-08-28T21:00:39Z] <cem> mandoc only supports the -man and -mdoc macros
[2021-08-28T21:00:55Z] <phoebos[m]> Ah yeah they're macros
[2021-08-28T21:00:57Z] <cem> groff has a bunch of macros for document formatting
[2021-08-28T21:01:00Z] <acheam> oh okay
[2021-08-28T21:01:04Z] <acheam> will play around with groff
[2021-08-28T21:01:11Z] <acheam> even though its GNU :(
[2021-08-28T21:01:51Z] <phoebos[m]> There's (di)troff or alternatively neatroff
[2021-08-28T21:02:12Z] <acheam> groff is the only one packaged for obsd and im lazy
[2021-08-28T21:02:33Z] <cem> obsd has deroff in source
[2021-08-28T21:02:54Z] <cem> oh that's something different
[2021-08-28T21:02:58Z] <acheam> yeah
[2021-08-28T21:03:05Z] <acheam> interesting but not super helpful in this case
[2021-08-28T21:18:12Z] <jslick> Was the documentation for kiss alternatives removed? There used to be an example command to switch all alts for a package, but I can't find it anymore
[2021-08-28T21:20:31Z] <acheam> kiss a | awk -F: '{print $2}' | sh
[2021-08-28T21:20:35Z] <acheam> or something like that?
[2021-08-28T21:20:47Z] <acheam> I forget what the kiss a output looks like
[2021-08-28T21:21:16Z] <acheam> kiss a | awk -F: '/pkgname/ {print $2}' | sh
[2021-08-28T21:22:15Z] <jslick> checked out old revision; I see: kiss a | grep ^sbase | kiss a -
[2021-08-28T21:22:24Z] <acheam> yep thats cleaner
[2021-08-28T21:24:03Z] <jslick> Couldn't even find the command documentation in the current version; wonder why he removed it
[2021-08-28T21:24:17Z] <acheam> its not really relevant
[2021-08-28T21:24:35Z] <acheam> general tips and tricks shouldn't be included in the documentation IMO
[2021-08-28T21:24:38Z] <acheam> they can be put elsewhere
[2021-08-28T21:25:00Z] <jslick> I mean documentation for even the alternatives command seems to be missing, not just tips and tricks
[2021-08-28T21:25:29Z] <acheam> ah
[2021-08-28T21:26:15Z] <acheam> z/1
[2021-08-28T21:26:19Z] <acheam> oops
[2021-08-28T21:27:24Z] <jslick> That's a really short password
[2021-08-28T21:38:15Z] <acheam> thats true
[2021-08-28T21:38:28Z] <acheam> it will never be as secure as the most strong and complex passowrd there is
[2021-08-28T21:38:29Z] <acheam> "dt"
[2021-08-28T22:29:00Z] <illiliti> ?=, +=, ... is actually posix
[2021-08-28T22:29:24Z] <illiliti> := superseded by ::=
[2021-08-28T22:29:33Z] <illiliti> https://www.austingroupbugs.net/view.php?id=330
[2021-08-28T22:44:07Z] <m3g> += doesn't work for busybox sh
[2021-08-28T22:44:44Z] <acheam> this is about makefiles
[2021-08-28T22:54:23Z] <illiliti> there's also :::=
[2021-08-28T22:54:28Z] <illiliti> https://www.austingroupbugs.net/view.php?id=1471
[2021-08-28T22:54:37Z] <phoebos> this is cool
[2021-08-28T22:54:45Z] <illiliti> posix getting complicated
[2021-08-28T22:54:58Z] <phoebos> is there a place to download the actual standards without making some account
[2021-08-28T22:55:50Z] <illiliti> afaik, to download drafts you need an account
[2021-08-28T23:05:35Z] <acheam> gold mine of programs from neatvi's original creator: http://litcave.rudi.ir/
[2021-08-28T23:07:00Z] <acheam> including a compiler, linker, assembler, libc, mail client, framebuffer terminal, fb document viewer and roff clone, among others
[2021-08-28T23:07:23Z] <phoebos> ikr