gemini - kennedy.gemi.dev

💾 Archived View for gemini.ctrl-c.club › ~phoebos › logs › kisslinux-2021-05-26.txt captured on 2024-06-16 at 13:42:16.
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[2021-05-26T13:09:09Z] <phoebos> ok we're back in
[2021-05-26T13:09:26Z] <phoebos> for the logs, libera set sasl access only for my logbot, but now it's back in
[2021-05-26T13:09:38Z] <phoebos> sorry for some lost logs :/
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[2021-05-26T13:14:56Z] <omanom> i tend to like his viewpoints on things: http://phroxy.z3bra.org/z3bra.org:70/1/notes/wayland 
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[2021-05-26T14:37:43Z] <riteo> hii!
[2021-05-26T14:37:55Z] <testuser[m]> hi
[2021-05-26T14:39:38Z] <kiedtl> hi
[2021-05-26T14:42:07Z] <illiliti> hi
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[2021-05-26T15:15:11Z] <midfavila> today in "what the fuck even is electromagnetism"
[2021-05-26T15:15:24Z] <midfavila> putting load on my CPU, even a single core, solves the interference problem with my mic.
[2021-05-26T15:16:33Z] kqz joined
[2021-05-26T15:17:00Z] whitequark parted: 
[2021-05-26T15:20:48Z] ElKowar4 changed nick to ElKowar
[2021-05-26T15:22:38Z] <lastchansen> midfavila: laptop?
[2021-05-26T15:24:16Z] <midfavila> nope
[2021-05-26T15:24:18Z] <midfavila> desktop
[2021-05-26T15:24:22Z] <midfavila> :^)
[2021-05-26T15:24:29Z] <lastchansen> I thougth only old cpus had the whine-problem, but it seems even newer intel cpu has the problem. Weird
[2021-05-26T15:24:31Z] <lastchansen> https://www.intel.com/content/www/us/en/support/articles/000032539/processors/intel-core-processors.html
[2021-05-26T15:24:47Z] <lastchansen> I remember the was a package on arch fixing it on my thinkpad x200
[2021-05-26T15:25:02Z] <midfavila> sure, but the issue there is,
[2021-05-26T15:25:25Z] <midfavila> wouldn't the CPU load only reduce interference if it was across all cores, or at least have a cumulative effect?
[2021-05-26T15:25:39Z] <kiedtl> whitequark is logging #kisslinux as of now: https://libera.irclog.whitequark.org/kisslinux
[2021-05-26T15:25:58Z] <midfavila> as it stands, regardless of actual clocks, more load on even a single core is a marked reduction in interference...
[2021-05-26T15:26:25Z] <lastchansen> midfavila: not sure why, but it could perhaps be related to the psu at idle? I seem to have had that problem a few years back.
[2021-05-26T15:27:03Z] <midfavila> that would be weird... 
[2021-05-26T15:27:06Z] <lastchansen> well.. I think that's the solution to your problem. Constant compiling :)
[2021-05-26T15:27:09Z] <midfavila> this is a 80+ gold unit
[2021-05-26T15:27:15Z] <midfavila> and yeah, I make that joke earlier
[2021-05-26T15:27:19Z] <lastchansen> :p
[2021-05-26T15:27:22Z] <midfavila> "whenever I need to call someone, I'll just cat random into null"
[2021-05-26T15:27:39Z] <lastchansen> hehe
[2021-05-26T15:28:18Z] <midfavila> it could also have something to do with the physical proximity of the GPU and sound card... but... 
[2021-05-26T15:28:52Z] <midfavila> based on my rudimentary understanding of wave interaction, a higher-frequency wave doesn't jam a lower-frequency one. it.. kind of just ignores it.
[2021-05-26T15:28:52Z] <lastchansen> Yeah, that was my next thought, but that has not been a problem for many years.. newer designs seem to be pretty solid on most motherboards.
[2021-05-26T15:29:10Z] <midfavila> well, this is a server board, fwiw. they're both discrete boards
[2021-05-26T15:29:15Z] <lastchansen> Perhaps a simple solution with a usb sound card?
[2021-05-26T15:29:19Z] <midfavila> ew ew ew ew ew
[2021-05-26T15:30:01Z] <lastchansen> Perhaps a simple solution with a high end goldplated usb sound card?
[2021-05-26T15:30:11Z] <midfavila> i'm using a high-end PCIe sound card . -.
[2021-05-26T15:30:57Z] midfavila quit: Quit: Leaving.
[2021-05-26T15:30:58Z] <kqz> an external DAC may help with a lot of that interference 
[2021-05-26T15:31:18Z] midfavila joined
[2021-05-26T15:31:34Z] <lastchansen> yeah, but if he already has a expensive PCIe card.. 
[2021-05-26T15:32:12Z] <kqz> a pci-e card in a very beefy two(?) socket mobo ;p
[2021-05-26T15:32:23Z] * lastchansen looks at his expensive dusty unused DAC.
[2021-05-26T15:32:36Z] <midfavila> yeah, two-socket. if it *is* the CPUs causing interference, then I'll have to work something out there...
[2021-05-26T15:32:56Z] <midfavila> at this point I'm more curious than anything.
[2021-05-26T15:33:48Z] <kqz> yeah i had a similar issue about a few years ago with my internal soundcard, switched to a DAC and i can't hear any of that anymore, would reccommend 7/9
[2021-05-26T15:34:24Z] <midfavila> Eeh...
[2021-05-26T15:34:41Z] <lastchansen> hehe
[2021-05-26T15:34:43Z] <midfavila> thing is, I'd need to invest in a ton of USB-based equipment at that point. which would entail investing in USB expansion boards. 
[2021-05-26T15:34:50Z] <midfavila> this motherboard hasn't got onboard audio.
[2021-05-26T15:35:09Z] <midfavila> and only like four USB, two of which are already in use.
[2021-05-26T15:35:13Z] <kqz> ah yeah dealing with all the usb devices is a pain, I had to buy a pretty pricey usb hub just to fit everything
[2021-05-26T15:35:48Z] <midfavila> another reason I think it might be the GPU is that even with the CPU under load, moving windows of different sizes produces corresponding interference
[2021-05-26T15:35:55Z] <midfavila> i.e larger windows generate more interference
[2021-05-26T15:37:47Z] <riteo> mh
[2021-05-26T15:37:57Z] <midfavila> this is so janky
[2021-05-26T15:37:58Z] <riteo> can you try moving it away? Maybe even with a riser?
[2021-05-26T15:38:09Z] <midfavila> that's what I'm thinking I'll do, if it *is* the GPU
[2021-05-26T15:38:24Z] <riteo> well, if you say that moving windows and such changes the interference
[2021-05-26T15:38:28Z] <riteo> maybe try running some 3d program?
[2021-05-26T15:38:32Z] <kqz> get an external gpu enclosure! /s
[2021-05-26T15:38:47Z] <midfavila> >use an external GPU enclosure for your SSI-EEB build in an ultra-tower, Mid
[2021-05-26T15:38:50Z] <midfavila> #kisslinux moment
[2021-05-26T15:38:54Z] <kqz> hahahaha
[2021-05-26T15:39:06Z] <midfavila> as if my rig doesn't already take up most of my living room
[2021-05-26T15:39:22Z] <riteo> that's an epico kisslinux moment too
[2021-05-26T15:39:37Z] <kqz> on the opposite end, i moved to an sff case, it's smaller than my toaster
[2021-05-26T15:39:40Z] <riteo> lmao I wrote epico, damn it muscle memory XD
[2021-05-26T15:39:52Z] <kqz> (and i imagine about the same size as most external gpu enclosures)
[2021-05-26T15:39:53Z] <midfavila> no, the epic kisslinux moment was putting together a dual socket system so that I can build mesa and llvm faster
[2021-05-26T15:39:59Z] <riteo> lmao
[2021-05-26T15:40:26Z] <riteo> kqz: how do you deal with temps on that thing?
[2021-05-26T15:40:31Z] <midfavila> probably water cooling
[2021-05-26T15:40:35Z] <kqz> yeah, that
[2021-05-26T15:40:43Z] <riteo> cool
[2021-05-26T15:40:47Z] <midfavila> i don't like liquid-cooled systems
[2021-05-26T15:40:49Z] <midfavila> they make me nervous
[2021-05-26T15:40:53Z] <riteo> same thing
[2021-05-26T15:41:00Z] <kqz> oh yeah it can be a nightmare for sure
[2021-05-26T15:41:12Z] <kqz> when i was first putting together the loop, after a few days, the first radiator i had **melted**
[2021-05-26T15:41:23Z] <riteo> how
[2021-05-26T15:41:25Z] <kqz> luckily i hadn't put anything in the case yet so nothing else got leaked on, but wow
[2021-05-26T15:41:38Z] <midfavila> imma stick with my noctuas and fuckoff huge heatsinks kthx
[2021-05-26T15:41:42Z] <kqz> i'm still not too sure what happened, think just unlucky qa
[2021-05-26T15:41:55Z] <midfavila> hopefully you were able to get your money back
[2021-05-26T15:42:02Z] <kqz> the current rad i have has been going without issue for over a year
[2021-05-26T15:42:17Z] <kqz> yeah I got it rma'd, it was an ek rad too, they're usually pretty awesome
[2021-05-26T15:44:26Z] <kqz> fun project though all-in-all, so much power in a tiny little package
[2021-05-26T15:44:33Z] <kqz> 3950x + 6900 xt and 64 gigs of ram :D
[2021-05-26T15:44:46Z] <riteo> oh wow
[2021-05-26T15:45:01Z] <riteo> a smol beast
[2021-05-26T15:46:05Z] <midfavila> >mfw my ultra-tower is cucked by a SFF
[2021-05-26T15:46:15Z] <midfavila> this injustice will not stand
[2021-05-26T15:46:25Z] <midfavila> time to invest in 1.5tb of RAM
[2021-05-26T15:46:30Z] <riteo> yes
[2021-05-26T15:46:34Z] <kqz> ahaha
[2021-05-26T15:46:38Z] <midfavila> crypto based on RAM when
[2021-05-26T15:46:43Z] <riteo> and use it as the main storage
[2021-05-26T15:46:54Z] <riteo> hyper fast ssd
[2021-05-26T15:47:12Z] <midfavila> i mean, at that point, I would have more RAM than SSD space
[2021-05-26T15:47:19Z] <riteo> yes
[2021-05-26T15:47:27Z] <riteo> just remember to keep it powered and everything will be fine
[2021-05-26T15:47:34Z] <midfavila> now I can finally play crysis in HD!!!
[2021-05-26T15:47:40Z] <riteo> CRAZY
[2021-05-26T15:47:59Z] <riteo> now I want 1.5 TB of ram too
[2021-05-26T15:48:46Z] <riteo> me and the boys depleting the ram market of all its supplies
[2021-05-26T15:49:07Z] <midfavila> mid in here single-handedly causing another silicon shortage
[2021-05-26T15:49:18Z] <midfavila> get dabbed on, third-world manufacturing plants.
[2021-05-26T15:49:22Z] <riteo> we do a little trolling
[2021-05-26T15:52:09Z] <acheam> kiedtl: thanks!
[2021-05-26T15:52:25Z] <acheam> little reminder to do the group reg
[2021-05-26T15:53:43Z] <riteo> oh kiedtl that's very cool!
[2021-05-26T15:54:00Z] <riteo> I really like that interface and the fact that it works well even without javascript
[2021-05-26T16:01:06Z] <kiedtl> riteo: yeah, and extra points for working in netsurf!
[2021-05-26T16:01:15Z] <midfavila> netsurf is comfy
[2021-05-26T16:01:27Z] <midfavila> sucks that it's kind of clunky-feeling.
[2021-05-26T16:01:28Z] <kiedtl> acheam: thanks, I sent the email yesterday, am waiting for a reply :)
[2021-05-26T16:01:38Z] <kiedtl> yeah, netsurf's UI is... primitive
[2021-05-26T16:02:33Z] <midfavila> the bigger problem isn't that it's primitive
[2021-05-26T16:02:46Z] <midfavila> it's that the actual rendering window does whatever the hell it wants
[2021-05-26T16:03:05Z] <midfavila> like, it doesn't interact with the clipboard properly, for example
[2021-05-26T16:03:13Z] <midfavila> and there's the weird scroll-by-dragging-the-cursor
[2021-05-26T16:08:10Z] <kiedtl> yup, that too
[2021-05-26T16:08:27Z] <kiedtl> NetSurf's CSS support isn't complete, but that'll get better in time
[2021-05-26T16:10:29Z] <testuser[m]> what group reg 
[2021-05-26T16:10:56Z] <june> not much what's group reg with you?
[2021-05-26T16:12:15Z] <midfavila>  oh damn
[2021-05-26T16:12:18Z] <midfavila> get destroyed
[2021-05-26T16:14:15Z] strajder quit: Quit: leaving
[2021-05-26T16:14:23Z] <kiedtl> testuser[m]: "project registration" in libera.chat speak
[2021-05-26T16:15:14Z] <kiedtl> see https://libera.chat/chanreg, section "Project registration"
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[2021-05-26T16:16:03Z] <testuser[m]> oh
[2021-05-26T16:17:15Z] <acheam> kiedtl: thanks a ton! you keep this channel running like a well oiled machine
[2021-05-26T16:20:19Z] <kiedtl> thanks :)
[2021-05-26T16:20:37Z] <kiedtl> acheam: btw, did you stop updating the sotd?
[2021-05-26T16:24:45Z] <acheam> yeah
[2021-05-26T16:24:56Z] <acheam> I do it on occadion
[2021-05-26T16:25:02Z] <acheam> but not daily
[2021-05-26T16:25:06Z] <kiedtl> ah, i see
[2021-05-26T16:25:39Z] ChanServ set the topic: KISS Linux | https://k1sslinux.org | "the meme has gone too far" | logs: https://gemini.ctrl-c.club/~phoebos/logs/ | song of the day: https://inv.skyn3t.in/lhVoP9CrlEU | word of the day: "ChanServ"
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[2021-05-26T16:58:10Z] <midfavila-laptop> goodbye, me
[2021-05-26T17:14:20Z] mmatongo joined
[2021-05-26T17:15:32Z] <mmatongo> hello cool people
[2021-05-26T17:16:15Z] <omanom> hi!
[2021-05-26T17:16:43Z] <mmatongo> how are you
[2021-05-26T17:17:29Z] <omanom> decided to torture myself by trying to get wayland working on my laptop
[2021-05-26T17:18:18Z] <mmatongo> hows that going
[2021-05-26T17:18:34Z] <omanom> much torture, very fun
[2021-05-26T17:18:37Z] <omanom> how about you?
[2021-05-26T17:19:27Z] <mmatongo> I just spent 4 days using macOS
[2021-05-26T17:19:39Z] <omanom> you're not going to ditch us now, are you...?
[2021-05-26T17:20:28Z] <mmatongo> no no, I just wanted to get familiar with it in case I have to use it for anything.
[2021-05-26T17:22:32Z] <midfavila-laptop> tl;dr it's like linux but shit
[2021-05-26T17:22:55Z] <midfavila-laptop> open a terminal and you'll be fine.
[2021-05-26T17:23:00Z] <mmatongo> so much shit
[2021-05-26T17:23:18Z] <mmatongo> I only felt safe with the terminal on
[2021-05-26T17:23:22Z] <mmatongo> open
[2021-05-26T17:23:59Z] sad_plan quit: Ping timeout: 244 seconds
[2021-05-26T17:24:09Z] <june> excuse you, it's like FreeBSD but shit
[2021-05-26T17:24:27Z] <june> get it right at least
[2021-05-26T17:24:49Z] <mmatongo> how similar are they, I know apple uses darwin over linux
[2021-05-26T17:25:05Z] <kiedtl> mmatongo: darwin contains a lot of code from freebsd
[2021-05-26T17:25:23Z] <june> almost all the command line tools in macOS are from FreeBSD
[2021-05-26T17:25:45Z] <kiedtl> I think the entire networking stack was lifted off of freebsd
[2021-05-26T17:25:54Z] <mmatongo> geez
[2021-05-26T17:26:49Z] sad_plan joined
[2021-05-26T17:26:56Z] <mmatongo> I need to try a bsd
[2021-05-26T17:27:25Z] <mmatongo> Odd though, is it good as a daily driver?
[2021-05-26T17:27:37Z] <june> OpenBSD <3
[2021-05-26T17:28:30Z] <mmatongo> j\une has spoken
[2021-05-26T17:28:37Z] <mmatongo> *june
[2021-05-26T17:29:59Z] <kiedtl> ensure that it supports your hardware and wifi card first
[2021-05-26T17:30:47Z] <mmatongo> Wait what
[2021-05-26T17:30:51Z] <midfavila-laptop> june freebsd is already shit
[2021-05-26T17:31:03Z] * midfavila-laptop dabs
[2021-05-26T17:31:12Z] <mmatongo> isn't that built into the kernel
[2021-05-26T17:33:55Z] <kiedtl> mmatongo: freebsd can't support every hardware item in existance
[2021-05-26T17:34:07Z] paradigm parted: 
[2021-05-26T17:34:09Z] <kiedtl> gotta make sure the drivers are there
[2021-05-26T17:34:27Z] paradigm joined
[2021-05-26T17:36:37Z] <mmatongo> midfavila-laptop: you hearing this shit
[2021-05-26T17:36:39Z] <acheam> yeah hardware support, especially on laptops, is slim compared to linux
[2021-05-26T17:38:28Z] <midfavila-laptop> hardware support is slim compared to linux*
[2021-05-26T17:39:07Z] <mmatongo> What even does that mean, who doesnt own a laptop
[2021-05-26T17:39:36Z] <acheam> gaymerz
[2021-05-26T17:39:51Z] <midfavila-laptop> anyone who needs to get actual work done, beyond typing documents
[2021-05-26T17:40:11Z] <acheam> just dont expect good nvidia or high speed wireless suppory
[2021-05-26T17:43:04Z] <mmatongo> june, it's a no from me.
[2021-05-26T17:45:23Z] <kiedtl> ..did you check if they have drivers for your hardware?
[2021-05-26T17:45:50Z] <kiedtl> You don't need to say 'no' just because their hardware support is slim, it won't matter if they have your drivers
[2021-05-26T17:46:51Z] <acheam> well if AC wireless for example, Is a requirement (it is for me) then that can be an auto no without needing to check suppory
[2021-05-26T17:46:56Z] <acheam> among other things
[2021-05-26T17:49:15Z] <mmatongo> I feel like I shouldn't have to research my hardware
[2021-05-26T17:49:30Z] <midfavila-laptop> then go use windows
[2021-05-26T17:49:35Z] <midfavila-laptop> or buy a mac
[2021-05-26T17:49:47Z] <kiedtl> ^^
[2021-05-26T17:49:55Z] <kiedtl> it's not like you never have to do that with linux
[2021-05-26T17:50:02Z] <midfavila-laptop> "not having to research your hardware" didn't become normal until like windows vista/7
[2021-05-26T17:50:19Z] <midfavila-laptop> if you think having to know the chipset of your wireless card is bad, wait until you have to fuck around with IRQs
[2021-05-26T17:50:27Z] <midfavila-laptop> kids these days, kiedtl
[2021-05-26T17:50:27Z] <midfavila-laptop> smh
[2021-05-26T17:50:29Z] <mmatongo> I'm good mid
[2021-05-26T17:50:55Z] <midfavila-laptop> back in *my* day, you had to make sure your *monitor* supported your video card
[2021-05-26T17:50:57Z] <mmatongo> My laptop came with linux preinstalled
[2021-05-26T17:51:10Z] <kiedtl> o_O is that the pinebook?
[2021-05-26T17:51:49Z] <mmatongo> no
[2021-05-26T17:52:51Z] <mmatongo> wait, are we doing sarcasm? 
[2021-05-26T17:54:39Z] <mmatongo> Ya'll gotta warn me
[2021-05-26T17:55:07Z] <june> OpenBSD runs well on approximately the same machines that Linux runs well on. thinkpads, macbooks, dell xps (I think)
[2021-05-26T17:55:12Z] <noocsharp> the apostrophe comes before the a btw
[2021-05-26T17:55:45Z] <noocsharp> "you all" => "y'all"
[2021-05-26T17:55:51Z] <midfavila-laptop> hot take
[2021-05-26T17:56:02Z] <mmatongo> ahhhh I see, thanks
[2021-05-26T17:56:03Z] <midfavila-laptop> if your OS doesn't support common desktop hardware, 'tis a toy OS
[2021-05-26T17:56:45Z] <june> I think there are better things to care about in an OS than support for some crummy hardware
[2021-05-26T17:56:57Z] <mmatongo> Are you calling BSD a toy Os
[2021-05-26T17:57:20Z] <noocsharp> hot take: if your hardware doesn't support your OS, it's toy hardware
[2021-05-26T17:57:21Z] <testuser[m]> install gentoo
[2021-05-26T17:57:29Z] <june> noocsharp++|
[2021-05-26T17:57:46Z] <midfavila-laptop> considering the last time I installed BSD on real hardware, it lacked support for my mouse, I didn't leave with a very good impression.
[2021-05-26T17:58:05Z] <noocsharp> sounds like a pretty bad mouse
[2021-05-26T17:58:12Z] <noocsharp> :P
[2021-05-26T17:58:17Z] <midfavila-laptop> just an older kensington trackball.
[2021-05-26T17:58:52Z] <june> really must be a shitty mouse. USB HID is pretty universal
[2021-05-26T17:59:02Z] <midfavila-laptop> it was PS/2.
[2021-05-26T17:59:14Z] <midfavila-laptop> don't @ me.
[2021-05-26T17:59:37Z] <noocsharp> then it really must be shitty, because i can't imagine bsd doesn't have ps2 support
[2021-05-26T18:00:05Z] * midfavila-laptop shrugs
[2021-05-26T18:00:20Z] <midfavila-laptop> Mouse works just fine everywhere else.
[2021-05-26T18:01:06Z] <midfavila-laptop> DOS through win10, linux since pre-2.6, and MacOS.
[2021-05-26T18:01:22Z] <june> really though complaining that your hardware isn't supported by an OS is backwards. you bought the wrong hardware.
[2021-05-26T18:01:55Z] <V> That's a very narrow way of looking at it
[2021-05-26T18:02:04Z] <mmatongo> Why am I buying specific hardware for a single OS
[2021-05-26T18:02:05Z] <midfavila-laptop> my hardware works just fine everywhere *but* the BSDs.
[2021-05-26T18:02:05Z] <kiedtl> ^^
[2021-05-26T18:02:10Z] <june> it's like complaining that the couch you bought doesn't fit in your apartment
[2021-05-26T18:02:27Z] <V> your apartment is the hardware, the couch is the software :)
[2021-05-26T18:02:28Z] <omanom> it's the chicken and egg question -- did you buy the hardware to fit the OS or did you choose the OS based on your hardware
[2021-05-26T18:02:32Z] <V> it's comfy to sit on
[2021-05-26T18:02:40Z] <midfavila-laptop> I was gonna say, if the apartment doesn't fit my couch, it's a shitty apartment.
[2021-05-26T18:02:46Z] <kiedtl> lolol
[2021-05-26T18:02:53Z] <midfavila-laptop> the failing of the apartment has no bearing on my couch.
[2021-05-26T18:03:02Z] <june> right, that's the attitude
[2021-05-26T18:03:10Z] <V> Mostly it doesn't make much sense to complain about one thing not supporting another thing if one wasn't intended to support the other, or if another is a item
[2021-05-26T18:03:15Z] <V> Which depends on context, etc
[2021-05-26T18:03:36Z] <V> I'm a little surprised at BSDs not supporting that trackball though
[2021-05-26T18:05:23Z] <midfavila-laptop> i was kind of surprised too. it's not like it's exotic hardware
[2021-05-26T18:05:49Z] <midfavila-laptop> kensington 64215 serial/PS/2, four buttons. 
[2021-05-26T18:06:00Z] GalaxyNova joined
[2021-05-26T18:06:15Z] <noocsharp> you plug it into the keyboard ps/2 port accidentally? lmao
[2021-05-26T18:06:26Z] <midfavila-laptop> = w=
[2021-05-26T18:08:08Z] <acheam> june: dell xps isnt as good as think pad but its pretty good
[2021-05-26T18:08:15Z] <midfavila-laptop> eh
[2021-05-26T18:08:21Z] <midfavila-laptop> ngl I prefer the latitudes over the XPSes
[2021-05-26T18:08:26Z] <acheam> I had to swap out my WiFi card to get it to run on dragonfly bsd
[2021-05-26T18:08:33Z] <midfavila-laptop> the XPS feels more prosumer than business 
[2021-05-26T18:08:43Z] <acheam> nerditup has a page on 9360, which is what I have
[2021-05-26T18:08:53Z] <acheam> midfavila-laptop: that's because it is
[2021-05-26T18:08:57Z] <acheam> lol
[2021-05-26T18:09:06Z] <midfavila-laptop> look, what do you expect from me
[2021-05-26T18:09:10Z] <midfavila-laptop> up to date knowledge on consumer hardware?
[2021-05-26T18:09:11Z] <midfavila-laptop> please
[2021-05-26T18:09:15Z] <acheam> yes.
[2021-05-26T18:09:22Z] <acheam> be a conzooomer
[2021-05-26T18:09:28Z] <midfavila-laptop> everything I own is obsolete, military, or industrial
[2021-05-26T18:09:43Z] <acheam> wait you own things?
[2021-05-26T18:09:48Z] <midfavila-laptop> like two things
[2021-05-26T18:09:51Z] sad_plan quit: Quit: Quit
[2021-05-26T18:09:52Z] <acheam> sounds like consumerism to me
[2021-05-26T18:09:57Z] <acheam> let's get those numbers down
[2021-05-26T18:10:06Z] <midfavila-laptop> fuck you're right
[2021-05-26T18:11:24Z] <lastchansen> :P
[2021-05-26T18:11:55Z] <midfavila-laptop> ...oh boy, kernel panic with "processor context corrupt"
[2021-05-26T18:12:01Z] <midfavila-laptop> today just keeps getting more and more exciting
[2021-05-26T18:13:04Z] <june> must be that toy OS you're running!
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[2021-05-26T18:14:19Z] <midfavila-laptop> nope, just fucking with kernel parameters.
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[2021-05-26T18:17:39Z] <jslick> I remember looking at XPS a while ago, but didn't buy bc it had soldered ram
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[2021-05-26T18:24:59Z] <acheam> yeah
[2021-05-26T18:25:13Z] <acheam> could you have slapped that sense into me when I bought it?
[2021-05-26T18:26:29Z] <midfavila> amd chads, I kneel. apparently intel chips being whiny is a known phenomenon
[2021-05-26T18:27:33Z] <acheam> well you already have lots of experience with whining
[2021-05-26T18:27:39Z] <midfavila> uwu
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[2021-05-26T18:27:48Z] <noocsharp> goteem
[2021-05-26T18:27:56Z] <GalaxyNova> amd cpus come with the best coolers
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[2021-05-26T18:52:15Z] <acheam> https://glimpse-editor.org/posts/a-project-on-hiatus/
[2021-05-26T18:57:30Z] <lastchansen> midfavila: so you're learning towards my intel whine theory? I think there is a fix for that on linux
[2021-05-26T18:57:37Z] <lastchansen> leaning
[2021-05-26T18:57:42Z] <midfavila> oh, not leaning
[2021-05-26T18:57:43Z] <midfavila> that was it
[2021-05-26T18:57:46Z] <midfavila> and i already fixed it
[2021-05-26T18:58:21Z] <lastchansen> :D
[2021-05-26T18:58:23Z] <lastchansen> cool!
[2021-05-26T18:58:25Z] <lastchansen> how?
[2021-05-26T18:59:03Z] <midfavila> disable frequency scaling.
[2021-05-26T18:59:21Z] <midfavila> and then lock the C state to 1. still unsure of the long-term effects of that.
[2021-05-26T18:59:43Z] <lastchansen> is that a bios setting?
[2021-05-26T19:00:04Z] <midfavila> freq. scaling was BIOS
[2021-05-26T19:00:11Z] <midfavila> the C state forcing is a kernel param
[2021-05-26T19:00:20Z] <lastchansen> yeah, okay :)
[2021-05-26T19:00:27Z] <midfavila> intel_idle.max_cstate=1
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[2021-05-26T20:23:25Z] <dilyn> imagine owning intel silicon 
[2021-05-26T20:23:41Z] <midfavila> nobully
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[2021-05-26T20:28:13Z] <jaafarrc> Long time no see, guys.
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[2021-05-26T22:35:08Z] <dilyn> cmake is such overkill for libxml. wtf gnome
[2021-05-26T22:35:43Z] <acheam> baby me used cmake for a single file program
[2021-05-26T22:35:50Z] <acheam> it had 2 cmakelists
[2021-05-26T22:36:21Z] <acheam> I was rather inexperienced just a few months ago
[2021-05-26T22:36:53Z] <dilyn> :<
[2021-05-26T22:37:05Z] <midfavila> but now acheam is a big boy who don't need no cmake
[2021-05-26T22:37:13Z] <dilyn> uSe MeSoN
[2021-05-26T22:37:25Z] <acheam> I use POSIX make now because I'm a big boy
[2021-05-26T22:37:44Z] <acheam> but bmake make kind of sucks ngl
[2021-05-26T22:37:56Z] <acheam> much less powerful than gmake
[2021-05-26T22:38:55Z] <dilyn> 30s build time with ./configure && make; 44s build time with cmake. fuck 
[2021-05-26T22:39:09Z] <acheam> take that
[2021-05-26T22:39:15Z] <noocsharp> for libxml?
[2021-05-26T22:39:22Z] <dilyn> and that's *assuming* the user already had cmake installed. 
[2021-05-26T22:39:24Z] <dilyn> yeah
[2021-05-26T22:39:29Z] <acheam> no
[2021-05-26T22:39:32Z] <dilyn> 36s with ninja tho
[2021-05-26T22:39:37Z] <dilyn> :V :V :V :V :V 
[2021-05-26T22:39:40Z] <acheam> you have to factor in cmake compile time
[2021-05-26T22:39:50Z] <dilyn> yeah it's gonna take 2 days to update libxml2 basically 
[2021-05-26T22:39:58Z] <acheam> yes.
[2021-05-26T22:40:02Z] <acheam> correct.
[2021-05-26T22:40:12Z] <acheam> there's a reason people say XML is shit
[2021-05-26T22:40:20Z] <dilyn> it would be more okay if it had a dependency that required cmake. but it don't. 
[2021-05-26T22:45:05Z] <noocsharp> i don't even have it installed anymore
[2021-05-26T22:45:17Z] <noocsharp> don't remember what i used that it was a dependency of
[2021-05-26T22:47:24Z] <riteo> xml has been overused in many many ways
[2021-05-26T22:47:33Z] <noocsharp> the better question is how does an xml parser take 30 seconds to compile at all?
[2021-05-26T22:47:44Z] <midfavila> i remember being extremely upset when I learned that SAML is a thing.
[2021-05-26T22:48:12Z] <riteo> what's SAML?
[2021-05-26T22:48:14Z] <midfavila> "yeah, uh, XML? let's use it to authenticate people."
[2021-05-26T22:48:14Z] <midfavila> "good idea."
[2021-05-26T22:48:17Z] <midfavila> that's SAML.
[2021-05-26T22:48:19Z] <riteo> oh god
[2021-05-26T22:48:37Z] <riteo> IMO it doesn't do its job that well either
[2021-05-26T22:48:50Z] <midfavila> the only time I actually like XML is when it's used for game modding
[2021-05-26T22:48:58Z] <riteo> Do you want something really fast? Binary format
[2021-05-26T22:49:14Z] <riteo> do you want something human readable? JSON or even YAML if you're into that mess
[2021-05-26T22:49:30Z] <riteo> xml is like right in between, having the worse of both worse
[2021-05-26T22:49:38Z] <riteo> worlds*
[2021-05-26T22:49:43Z] <midfavila> use scheme. smh.
[2021-05-26T22:49:54Z] <noocsharp> s expressions
[2021-05-26T22:50:22Z] <riteo> noocsharp yeah sorry, I couldn't think fast one that wouldn't change everything tooo
[2021-05-26T22:50:27Z] <riteo> s/tooo/too/
[2021-05-26T22:50:35Z] <midfavila> s/too/two/
[2021-05-26T22:50:45Z] <noocsharp> s/two/toe/
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[2021-05-26T22:52:27Z] <claudia> But you need cmake anywas for so much stuff
[2021-05-26T22:55:03Z] <dilyn> do you even need it when you go from fresh install to `kiss b qt5-webengine`? 
[2021-05-26T22:56:06Z] <dilyn> we need a nice dependency tree grapher for an arbitrary package 
[2021-05-26T22:56:22Z] <dilyn> it is nonobvious to me that cmake would appear at any point building any of the packages that require libxml2 :X  
[2021-05-26T22:56:42Z] <dilyn> if it DID, I'd be more okay with it
[2021-05-26T22:59:18Z] <omanom> you'd have to make sure the depends files are accurate
[2021-05-26T22:59:39Z] <omanom> unless you mean a different way of identifying dependencies
[2021-05-26T23:01:27Z] <dilyn> most of our depends files are 100% accurate 
[2021-05-26T23:01:37Z] <dilyn> the few that aren't are missing small make deps like linux-headers & pkgconf 
[2021-05-26T23:01:56Z] <omanom> which wouldn't really be the ones you'd be interested in seeing anyways
[2021-05-26T23:02:17Z] <dilyn> yeah terminal nodes are the most borings features of this sort of graph
[2021-05-26T23:03:18Z] <omanom> lol that reminds me i was looking at the Ropes data structure a bit ago: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rope_(data_structure)
[2021-05-26T23:03:57Z] <dilyn> that's cute...
[2021-05-26T23:03:59Z] <omanom> the splitting of the graph i just can /not/ wrap my head around how to do it
[2021-05-26T23:04:00Z] <dilyn> graphs are fun
[2021-05-26T23:04:08Z] <dilyn> lolg /shrug 
[2021-05-26T23:04:55Z] <honeyedbee> What'm I doing wrong? Everytime I run make on my kernel config it throws an error about objtool...
[2021-05-26T23:05:31Z] carlosdavidepto joined
[2021-05-26T23:05:48Z] <omanom> Can you post the full log to something like ix.io so we can see the error?
[2021-05-26T23:06:34Z] <honeyedbee> Yeah, One second.
[2021-05-26T23:06:37Z] <omanom> nim's thoughts on dependency tracking: https://github.com/nim-lang/nimble/issues/890
[2021-05-26T23:07:46Z] <omanom> this has a lot of funny symbols that might be helpful, i dunno: https://research.swtch.com/version-sat
[2021-05-26T23:08:11Z] <ang> just deleted a statusbar script I've been working on for a couple hours, big oof
[2021-05-26T23:08:24Z] <ang> fortunately I would recover it from /proc/<pid>/fd
[2021-05-26T23:08:31Z] <ang> could*
[2021-05-26T23:08:32Z] <honeyedbee> https://termbin.com/mhqz - I think this is the whole thing.
[2021-05-26T23:08:49Z] <ang> how would one do that on obsd I wonder
[2021-05-26T23:16:02Z] <omanom> honeyedbee take a look here: https://k1sslinux.org/news/20210507a
[2021-05-26T23:16:33Z] <honeyedbee> Ah. I came from arch, you'd think I'd know to check the dang news feed!
[2021-05-26T23:16:52Z] <omanom> no worries, it's tripped up a bunch of us :)
[2021-05-26T23:17:37Z] <honeyedbee> Thanks. I appreciate the help.
[2021-05-26T23:18:00Z] <omanom> sure, welcome btw!
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[2021-05-26T23:24:26Z] <dilyn> of course recursive dependency resolution is NP complete. why tf wouldn't it be 
[2021-05-26T23:24:40Z] <dilyn> this is why we are a simple distro with <<1k packages :v 
[2021-05-26T23:25:17Z] <midfavila> did I hear someone say "let's rewrite kiss in scheme"?
[2021-05-26T23:28:47Z] <honeyedbee> Thanks for the welcome too! I've been lurking. But a lot of stuff tends to go over my head, so I just hang around in case the smart rubs off.
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[2021-05-26T23:35:47Z] <claudia> dilyn: I agree that using cmake is overkill. But you would need it anyways to build webkit2gtk, firefox, falkon or chromium.
[2021-05-26T23:35:58Z] <claudia> So its in your basic tooling anyway.
[2021-05-26T23:37:46Z] <dilyn> uuuhhmmmm
[2021-05-26T23:37:50Z] <claudia> So I view it not to use libxml directly but I need it to build other stuff.
[2021-05-26T23:38:47Z] <dilyn> you certainly do need cmake to build other things, but... hm
[2021-05-26T23:39:02Z] <dilyn> chromium doesn't require cmake btw. or at least, it shouldn't, afaik
[2021-05-26T23:39:05Z] <claudia> I apreciate your idealism and I think its right
[2021-05-26T23:39:06Z] <riteo> solution: don't use XML :P
[2021-05-26T23:39:29Z] <dilyn> the biggest downfall of wayfire is that it requires xml >=|
[2021-05-26T23:39:34Z] <dilyn> would prefer yaml ffs
[2021-05-26T23:39:39Z] <noocsharp> wayland itself requires xml
[2021-05-26T23:39:39Z] <claudia> chromium -> libjpeg-turbo
[2021-05-26T23:39:44Z] <dilyn> hng
[2021-05-26T23:39:47Z] <dilyn> right. 
[2021-05-26T23:39:49Z] <claudia> we are cursed
[2021-05-26T23:39:51Z] <dilyn> gooooooddddddd
[2021-05-26T23:39:52Z] <riteo> IMO yaml is a mess too
[2021-05-26T23:40:17Z] <riteo> better than XML, but it has way too many ways of doing the same thing
[2021-05-26T23:40:18Z] <dilyn> just parse plaintext amirite
[2021-05-26T23:40:32Z] <riteo> JSON hits the sweet spot imo
[2021-05-26T23:40:40Z] <riteo> it's very very simple and extremely readable
[2021-05-26T23:40:46Z] <noocsharp> i don't know why more people dont use s-expressions
[2021-05-26T23:40:48Z] <claudia> But hosting a makefile in the repo is messy. And hosting it somewhere only for this one seems also overkilled.
[2021-05-26T23:40:57Z] <noocsharp> its like the most flexible thing there is, and its simple
[2021-05-26T23:41:16Z] <riteo> noocsharp, oh, you weren't talking about sed expressions? Now I'm feeling stupid, sorry for ignoring you
[2021-05-26T23:41:24Z] <riteo> I've never heard of them
[2021-05-26T23:41:39Z] <noocsharp> lisp programs are s expressions
[2021-05-26T23:42:19Z] <riteo> oh
[2021-05-26T23:42:27Z] <riteo> wouldn't that make it all turing complete and very complex to parse?
[2021-05-26T23:42:34Z] <riteo> or is there some other condition?
[2021-05-26T23:42:57Z] <carlosdavidepto> sexps are not turing complete by default
[2021-05-26T23:43:04Z] <riteo> I'm reading it on wikipedia but still can't get what's different from normal lips code, since there's ifs and whatnot
[2021-05-26T23:43:05Z] <carlosdavidepto> they're a data serialization format
[2021-05-26T23:43:15Z] <riteo> s/lips/lisp/
[2021-05-26T23:43:37Z] <carlosdavidepto> one way to think of it is this
[2021-05-26T23:43:45Z] <carlosdavidepto> a lisp program is just a list
[2021-05-26T23:44:10Z] <carlosdavidepto> in fact a list of lists of lists of...
[2021-05-26T23:44:37Z] <noocsharp> here's an example of not code in an s-expr: https://nihaljere.xyz/words/djvu_outlines.html
[2021-05-26T23:44:48Z] <carlosdavidepto> but that just so happens to have a special property: when fed to the correct interpreter, it will execute as a program, if valid