💾 Archived View for gemini.ctrl-c.club › ~phoebos › logs › freenode-kisslinux-2021-04-16.txt captured on 2024-06-16 at 13:43:42.
⬅️ Previous capture (2021-12-17)
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2021-04-16T00:10:05 #kisslinux <acheam> phoebos: you'll make it eventually!
2021-04-16T00:10:33 #kisslinux <acheam> give a monkey a typewriter, and eventually he'll write out the works of shakespere
2021-04-16T00:15:36 #kisslinux <phoebos> give me an eee pc, and no catgirl for community bcs my fingers are too big
2021-04-16T00:23:23 #kisslinux <acheam> https://lkml.org/lkml/2021/4/14/1099
2021-04-16T00:24:56 #kisslinux <acheam> also, https://gnu.tools/
2021-04-16T00:27:26 #kisslinux <acheam> FreeBSD seems to have removed a lot of GNU in version 13
2021-04-16T00:27:28 #kisslinux <acheam> pretty cool
2021-04-16T00:28:06 #kisslinux <acheam> sorry posting 3 pieces of news here in a short span of time probably wasn't the wisest of moves lol
2021-04-16T00:29:55 #kisslinux <phoebos> what's the gnu assembly
2021-04-16T00:29:57 #kisslinux <phoebos> is it a union
2021-04-16T00:30:42 #kisslinux <acheam> its a GNU protest thing as far as I can tell
2021-04-16T00:35:15 #kisslinux <dilyn> considering they have exactly one blog post from today...
2021-04-16T00:35:28 #kisslinux <dilyn> gonna venture to guess that it's a clapback against RMS
2021-04-16T00:39:54 #kisslinux <midfavila1> >they use the contributor covenent
2021-04-16T00:40:01 #kisslinux <midfavila1> absolutely cringe
2021-04-16T00:40:37 #kisslinux <midfavila1> s/covenent/covenant/
2021-04-16T00:40:37 #kisslinux <movzbl> <midfavila1> absolutely cringe
2021-04-16T00:40:51 #kisslinux <midfavila1> perfect.
2021-04-16T01:43:24 #kisslinux <acheam> god where have we come from this: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_v._Microsoft_Corp.
2021-04-16T01:55:32 #kisslinux <thebuzzing> Google paid the right people, Microsoft refused to play the bribery game, that was their punishment.
2021-04-16T01:55:53 #kisslinux <thebuzzing> The government doesn't care about monopolies, just money.
2021-04-16T01:57:28 #kisslinux <dilyn> it is damn near impossible under united states law to actually bust monopolies
2021-04-16T01:57:57 #kisslinux <thebuzzing> Coorporations are people after all.
2021-04-16T01:58:40 #kisslinux <dilyn> i mean this fact predates citizen's united
2021-04-16T02:18:18 #kisslinux <noocsharp> in what sense of the word monopoly is google a monopoly
2021-04-16T02:20:22 #kisslinux <acheam> noocsharp: can't tell if there's a /s at the end of that
2021-04-16T02:20:35 #kisslinux <noocsharp> im serious
2021-04-16T02:21:11 #kisslinux <acheam> i'll be honest, I don't know the legal ramifications of the word "monopoly" super well
2021-04-16T02:21:24 #kisslinux <acheam> but, digital advertisement for example
2021-04-16T02:21:30 #kisslinux <noocsharp> facebook exists
2021-04-16T02:21:43 #kisslinux <acheam> facebook only advertises on facebook though
2021-04-16T02:21:48 #kisslinux <acheam> if you just want ads across the web
2021-04-16T02:21:52 #kisslinux <acheam> google is your only option
2021-04-16T02:23:04 #kisslinux <acheam> wow I really destroyed him with that argument eh
2021-04-16T02:23:20 #kisslinux <noocsharp> if you are an advertiser, you have more choices than just google
2021-04-16T02:23:48 #kisslinux <acheam> not if your a generic advertiser looking to get your product out to people
2021-04-16T02:24:02 #kisslinux <acheam> yes there are options
2021-04-16T02:24:11 #kisslinux <acheam> but they are crap compared to google
2021-04-16T02:24:55 #kisslinux <noocsharp> your misunderestimate the amount of people on facebook, reddit, twitter, tiktok, snapchat, instagram, etc.
2021-04-16T02:25:11 #kisslinux <noocsharp> s/your/you/
2021-04-16T02:25:11 #kisslinux <movzbl> <noocsharp> you misunderestimate the amount of people on facebook, reddit, twitter, tiktok, snapchat, instagram, etc.
2021-04-16T02:25:20 #kisslinux <acheam> those are a different ad catergory though
2021-04-16T02:25:31 #kisslinux <acheam> i'm talking about generic in-page ads, not tied to a specific platform
2021-04-16T02:25:44 #kisslinux <acheam> (again, I don't know how well my argument stands up legally)
2021-04-16T02:26:38 #kisslinux <noocsharp> advertisers dont care about in-page ads or not, they want to target specific demographics, which they can reach on all these different platforms
2021-04-16T02:26:57 #kisslinux <noocsharp> although yes, in-page ads allow for more granular targetting probably
2021-04-16T02:27:48 #kisslinux <acheam> okay how about web browser
2021-04-16T02:27:59 #kisslinux <acheam> they can point finger at webkit and gecko
2021-04-16T02:28:18 #kisslinux <noocsharp> ok, you got me there
2021-04-16T02:28:27 #kisslinux <acheam> but market-share wise, chromium is king
2021-04-16T02:28:47 #kisslinux <noocsharp> with respect to duopolies though...
2021-04-16T02:29:31 #kisslinux <acheam> so many duoploies with apple and google
2021-04-16T02:33:04 #kisslinux <dilyn> Google's Maps API is the tits. Everybody basically has to use it, because osmand is garbage.
2021-04-16T02:33:10 #kisslinux <dilyn> Google lets you use it for free! for a minute.
2021-04-16T02:33:26 #kisslinux <dilyn> And then they make you pay. and hike the prices. and hike the prices. and hike the prices. and and and
2021-04-16T02:33:34 #kisslinux <dilyn> they're a very smart ad company :v
2021-04-16T02:34:31 #kisslinux <acheam> yeah ngl osmand just isn't it
2021-04-16T02:34:44 #kisslinux <noocsharp> ah forgot about that too
2021-04-16T02:34:51 #kisslinux <acheam> there is apple maps though
2021-04-16T02:34:57 #kisslinux <noocsharp> doesn't it use osm?
2021-04-16T02:35:05 #kisslinux <dilyn> doesn't it suck ass
2021-04-16T02:35:15 #kisslinux <acheam> I think OSM is part of it, and then they purchase other mapping stuff to supplement it
2021-04-16T02:35:23 #kisslinux <acheam> it used to but now it sucksless
2021-04-16T02:35:45 #kisslinux <acheam> Apple could make OSM awesome
2021-04-16T02:35:48 #kisslinux <acheam> but... they don't
2021-04-16T02:35:57 #kisslinux <noocsharp> im pretty sure they have people working on it
2021-04-16T02:36:36 #kisslinux <acheam> oh yeah it looks like they do
2021-04-16T02:36:37 #kisslinux <acheam> https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Apple#Use_of_OSM_data
2021-04-16T02:36:41 #kisslinux <dilyn> the monopoly charge the US DoJ is itching to launch relates ONLY to Google's practices with it's 'being the default search engine' with browser and hardware distributors of technology devices. Because monopoly suits HAVE to be the most narrow fucking thing in the universe, otherwise you get your case dismissed for vagaries
2021-04-16T02:37:04 #kisslinux <acheam> yeah its really damn stupid
2021-04-16T02:37:12 #kisslinux <dilyn> it's all stupid. the entire thing.
2021-04-16T02:37:29 #kisslinux <acheam> argh take me back to 1997 technology
2021-04-16T02:37:40 #kisslinux <dilyn> back before alphabet inc
2021-04-16T02:37:44 #kisslinux <dilyn> thems were the days
2021-04-16T02:37:57 #kisslinux <acheam> back before using software to do something was required
2021-04-16T02:38:00 #kisslinux <noocsharp> back when igoogle was a thing
2021-04-16T02:38:30 #kisslinux <acheam> back when I could use google without shame
2021-04-16T02:38:57 #kisslinux <noocsharp> back when google had good april fools jokes
2021-04-16T02:39:16 #kisslinux <acheam> back when anybody had good april fools jokes
2021-04-16T02:39:37 #kisslinux <acheam> seriously april fools has had a sharp decline in quality the last few years
2021-04-16T02:39:56 #kisslinux <noocsharp> that volkswagen one was pretty good
2021-04-16T02:40:06 #kisslinux <dilyn> back when google was a good search engine...
2021-04-16T02:40:18 #kisslinux <acheam> the problem is google is still the best search engine
2021-04-16T02:40:27 #kisslinux <dilyn> idk man bing is pretty tight nowadays
2021-04-16T02:41:28 #kisslinux <acheam> take it back
2021-04-16T02:41:50 #kisslinux <noocsharp> do they still do that thing where they pay you in gift cards for using it?
2021-04-16T02:42:37 #kisslinux <acheam> wait what
2021-04-16T02:44:28 #kisslinux <noocsharp> https://www.microsoft.com/en-us/rewards
2021-04-16T02:44:33 #kisslinux <noocsharp> i think it used to be called bing rewards
2021-04-16T02:46:11 #kisslinux <acheam> interesting
2021-04-16T02:46:14 #kisslinux <acheam> they were really desperate
2021-04-16T02:47:04 #kisslinux <testuser_[m]> Hi
2021-04-16T02:47:47 #kisslinux <acheam> hi testuser_[m]
2021-04-16T02:47:53 #kisslinux <noocsharp> howdy
2021-04-16T02:48:54 #kisslinux <dilyn> or it means that they were able to make so much fucking money from collating, archiving, and selling your microsoft account data if it were bundled with user search activity, they wanted to inventivize you to give it to them
2021-04-16T02:49:05 #kisslinux <dilyn> because google fucks you like that, but for free uwu
2021-04-16T02:49:33 #kisslinux <dilyn> s/inventivize/incentivize
2021-04-16T02:52:59 #kisslinux <acheam> heh
2021-04-16T03:00:49 #kisslinux <noocsharp> well you always have the option to pay google if thats what does it for you
2021-04-16T04:52:43 #kisslinux <konimex> E5ten: looks like some parts of the patch (specifically, the added YYSTYPE to the union https://github.com/wyvertux/wyverkiss/commit/d79ce780f94c3bc972bf8ad5ae76caad095649d1) isn't needed anymore, I can build mesa with byacc-20210328 now
2021-04-16T04:53:02 #kisslinux <E5ten> ah I see, nice
2021-04-16T05:36:26 #kisslinux <konimex> E5ten: looks like next release of mesa wouldn't require GNU bison anymore https://gitlab.freedesktop.org/mesa/mesa/-/merge_requests/8739
2021-04-16T05:37:42 #kisslinux <konimex> s/wouldn't/won't
2021-04-16T05:37:48 #kisslinux <konimex> s/wouldn't/won't/
2021-04-16T05:37:48 #kisslinux <movzbl> <konimex> E5ten: looks like next release of mesa won't require GNU bison anymore https://gitlab.freedesktop.org/mesa/mesa/-/merge_requests/8739
2021-04-16T07:10:47 #kisslinux <spryc> o/
2021-04-16T07:10:57 #kisslinux <testuser[m]_> Hi
2021-04-16T07:11:34 #kisslinux <spryc> oh buffet is here, i didn�'t know that they are here sometimes
2021-04-16T07:55:46 #kisslinux <konimex> apparently building sanitizers for LLVM 12 is now possible in musl systems, but it conflicts with kernel header: https://termbin.com/58vv
2021-04-16T09:12:04 #kisslinux <testuser_[m]> acheam
2021-04-16T09:12:11 #kisslinux <testuser_[m]> Where'd you get the colors for https://git.sr.ht/~armaan/stagit/tree/main/item/resources/syntax.css
2021-04-16T09:42:36 #kisslinux <phoebos[m]> Re: maps: mapbox is a thing, idk what it used though
2021-04-16T09:54:41 #kisslinux <spryc> i found something cool https://github.com/pystardust/ytfzf
2021-04-16T09:54:52 #kisslinux <spryc> can also be used with dmenu if one specifies the -D option
2021-04-16T12:22:23 #kisslinux <M4R10zM0113R> >twitter doesn't work without js anymore
2021-04-16T12:22:24 #kisslinux <M4R10zM0113R> lol
2021-04-16T12:23:02 #kisslinux <testuser_[m]> nitter.snopyta.org
2021-04-16T12:23:46 #kisslinux <M4R10zM0113R> neat
2021-04-16T12:25:11 #kisslinux <testuser_[m]> btw there's invidious for youtube also if you didn't know, and bibliogram for instagram
2021-04-16T12:29:46 #kisslinux <spryc> and libreddit for reddit
2021-04-16T12:30:00 #kisslinux <spryc> https://libredd.it/
2021-04-16T12:31:16 #kisslinux <spryc> installhelp: o/
2021-04-16T12:31:59 #kisslinux <installhelp> I am installing kiss, and got grub to work, but then mid boot it freezes and says "---end kernel panic - not syncing: VFS: Unable to mount root fs on unknown block (0,0) ]---"
2021-04-16T12:32:10 #kisslinux <spryc> i had that
2021-04-16T12:32:15 #kisslinux <spryc> but i was using efibootmgr
2021-04-16T12:32:24 #kisslinux <spryc> and had put the UUID in the wrong place
2021-04-16T12:32:48 #kisslinux <spryc> do you have an fstab?
2021-04-16T12:32:59 #kisslinux <spryc> did you build in support for your filesystem?
2021-04-16T12:33:21 #kisslinux <installhelp> Yes, I have an fstab, and built kernel support for the filesystem.
2021-04-16T12:34:20 #kisslinux <spryc> wonder if something could be wrong with the grub config
2021-04-16T12:34:28 #kisslinux <spryc> i can't really help you more though
2021-04-16T12:35:02 #kisslinux <installhelp> Is there anything I should do?
2021-04-16T12:35:26 #kisslinux <testuser_[m]> send your kernel .config
2021-04-16T12:37:08 #kisslinux <installhelp> k gimme sec
2021-04-16T12:40:25 #kisslinux <buffet> spryc, hey!
2021-04-16T12:40:35 #kisslinux <tink> Aren't you this person? https://libredd.it/r/kisslinux/comments/mqzu3h/kiss_linux_freezes_on_first_boot/
2021-04-16T12:42:48 #kisslinux <testuser_[m]> tink: btw i got steam running on gkiss, since you asked a few days back
2021-04-16T12:46:13 #kisslinux <tink> then it's possible to run gkiss in a chroot on kiss to play games on steam
2021-04-16T12:56:47 #kisslinux <tink> which you said is what most people want glibc for
2021-04-16T13:03:29 #kisslinux <acheam> testuser_[m]: It's gruvbox, I got it from https://github.com/daveyarwood/gruvbox-pygments/blob/master/gruvbox.css
2021-04-16T13:04:07 #kisslinux <acheam> and chroma uses the same class names as pygments so it works fine
2021-04-16T13:04:46 #kisslinux <acheam> actually looking at it now, I can get rid of all the useless background color rules
2021-04-16T13:07:17 #kisslinux <testuser_[m]> Cool
2021-04-16T13:10:23 #kisslinux <testuser_[m]> Btw here you should move the call to markdown function inside the if condition so u check extension first before highlighting, not afterwards
2021-04-16T13:10:24 #kisslinux <testuser_[m]> https://git.sr.ht/~armaan/stagit/tree/main/item/src/stagit.c#L426
2021-04-16T13:11:10 #kisslinux <testuser_[m]> Then you can also get rid of the variable htmlized by doing if else on the strcmp call
2021-04-16T13:19:11 #kisslinux <ominous_anonymou> @tink testuser_[m] That's pretty cool re: Steam, I wonder what performance is like!
2021-04-16T13:22:34 #kisslinux <testuser_[m]> I don't think performance would vary much, but you need very few 32 bit libs (only ~7 if on nvidia, ~15 on amd)
2021-04-16T13:22:42 #kisslinux <testuser_[m]> Since most of the stuff is from the ubuntu tarball they use
2021-04-16T13:23:34 #kisslinux <ominous_anonymou> @acheam a lot of times "monopoly" doesn't actually matter as long as the company doesn't cross a certain threshold of anti-competitive practices
2021-04-16T13:23:39 #kisslinux <ominous_anonymou> https://www.ftc.gov/tips-advice/competition-guidance/guide-antitrust-laws/single-firm-conduct/monopolization-defined
2021-04-16T13:23:44 #kisslinux <ominous_anonymou> https://www.ftc.gov/enforcement/anticompetitive-practices
2021-04-16T13:24:17 #kisslinux <ominous_anonymou> second link: "It is important to note that it is not illegal for a company to have a monopoly, to charge “high prices,” or to try to achieve a monopoly position by aggressive methods. A company violates the law only if it tries to maintain or acquire a monopoly through unreasonable methods."
2021-04-16T13:29:27 #kisslinux <acheam> oh thanks testuser_[m]
2021-04-16T13:30:25 #kisslinux <acheam> ominous_anonymou: Well the argument is that Google is so big, they can basically buy themselves into more market share in a way that no other company can, like paying for Google as the default search engine
2021-04-16T13:30:49 #kisslinux <acheam> but again, IANAL
2021-04-16T13:42:06 #kisslinux <ominous_anonymou> right, just wanted to highlight that just "xxx company is really big" and/or "xxx company dominates yyy industry" is not in and of itself a violation of antitrust laws
2021-04-16T13:42:33 #kisslinux <acheam> yeah, thanks
2021-04-16T13:42:44 #kisslinux <midfavila1> https://vid.puffyan.us/watch?v=pwMnMzoxji8
2021-04-16T13:42:59 #kisslinux <acheam> what's with this new invidious instance?
2021-04-16T13:43:01 #kisslinux <midfavila1> friendly reminder that corporations of any size can't be trusted
2021-04-16T13:43:06 #kisslinux <midfavila1> ytprivate keeps getting flooded
2021-04-16T13:43:14 #kisslinux <midfavila1> average of around 5k users
2021-04-16T13:43:29 #kisslinux <acheam> ah
2021-04-16T13:43:36 #kisslinux <midfavila1> about five times more than the next largest, snopyta's, at 1k-ish. got sick of constant 503s
2021-04-16T13:44:22 #kisslinux <acheam> oh nice puffyan uses the same datacenter as me
2021-04-16T13:44:23 #kisslinux <acheam> lol
2021-04-16T13:44:37 #kisslinux <midfavila1> datacenter gang
2021-04-16T13:44:45 #kisslinux <acheam> on the other hand, more people = more privacy
2021-04-16T13:44:59 #kisslinux <midfavila1> yes, but also
2021-04-16T13:45:02 #kisslinux <midfavila1> consider the following:
2021-04-16T13:45:09 #kisslinux <midfavila1> i would very much like to be able to actually listen to my music
2021-04-16T13:45:14 #kisslinux <acheam> lol yeah
2021-04-16T13:45:25 #kisslinux <acheam> I mean, I use freetube which is basically just local invidious
2021-04-16T13:45:36 #kisslinux <midfavila1> ...plus, I'd like to see them fingerprint me short of actually visiting youtube directly.
2021-04-16T13:45:44 #kisslinux <testuser_[m]> Invidious gets blocked pretty often on music videos
2021-04-16T13:45:49 #kisslinux <midfavila1> yeah
2021-04-16T13:45:53 #kisslinux <midfavila1> because of bullshit licensing
2021-04-16T13:45:57 #kisslinux <acheam> Freetube has been good in that regard
2021-04-16T13:46:06 #kisslinux <acheam> because its all local
2021-04-16T13:46:09 #kisslinux <midfavila1> most music I listen to is OSTs from old games or from indie artists who haven't shilled out
2021-04-16T13:46:24 #kisslinux <midfavila1> so it's normally not a problem
2021-04-16T13:46:34 #kisslinux <acheam> we need more open usage music
2021-04-16T13:46:36 #kisslinux <midfavila1> but the *second* I want to listen to anything even slightly mainstream, everything breaks
2021-04-16T13:46:39 #kisslinux <acheam> Creative commons music
2021-04-16T13:46:47 #kisslinux <acheam> hmm yeah that's unfortunate
2021-04-16T13:46:47 #kisslinux <midfavila1> i mean
2021-04-16T13:47:01 #kisslinux <midfavila1> everything from the early-mid 90s and onward should already be public domain
2021-04-16T13:47:08 #kisslinux <acheam> 90s??
2021-04-16T13:47:10 #kisslinux <midfavila1> afaik the original copyright length was 27 years in the US
2021-04-16T13:47:12 #kisslinux <testuser_[m]> <midfavila1 "...plus, I'd like to see them fi"> You still access the googlevideo url though for the video
2021-04-16T13:47:18 #kisslinux <midfavila1> so like, maybe the late 80s then
2021-04-16T13:47:21 #kisslinux <midfavila1> idk I just woke up
2021-04-16T13:47:32 #kisslinux <acheam> testuser_[m]: unless you use the "proxy" feature some instances have
2021-04-16T13:47:43 #kisslinux <midfavila1> testuser_[m] i usually proxy my stuff
2021-04-16T13:47:52 #kisslinux <acheam> midfavila1: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Public_domain_music
2021-04-16T13:48:04 #kisslinux <midfavila1> but even then I filter everything that isn't *specifically* the media I want, using nmatrix
2021-04-16T13:48:07 #kisslinux <testuser_[m]> Yeah but i assumed most people don't use the proxy feature to avoid load on the server
2021-04-16T13:48:10 #kisslinux <acheam> music written before 1923 will be public domain in 2022
2021-04-16T13:48:17 #kisslinux <acheam> recordings made between 1923 and 1946 will be protected for 100 years after publication
2021-04-16T13:48:27 #kisslinux <midfavila1> yes, because of walt disney's interference in copyright law
2021-04-16T13:48:37 #kisslinux <midfavila1> and other corporate lobbying
2021-04-16T13:48:49 #kisslinux <midfavila1> it's hilariously immoral
2021-04-16T13:49:08 #kisslinux <acheam> CC-BY all the things plz
2021-04-16T13:49:13 #kisslinux <M4R10zM0113R> That's copyright for ya
2021-04-16T13:49:31 #kisslinux <midfavila1> i'm fine with non-CC media, but the current system is far too heavy-handed
2021-04-16T13:49:50 #kisslinux <acheam> i've been more and more turned away from copyleft licenses the more I start coding and looking at other programs to see what they do
2021-04-16T13:49:56 #kisslinux <midfavila1> the bigger thing for me is like... why is sharing a movie from the 1950s that would otherwise be lost to time considered criminal?
2021-04-16T13:49:58 #kisslinux <acheam> if its GPL it really limits me in how I can use it
2021-04-16T13:50:41 #kisslinux <midfavila1> cooooooding
2021-04-16T13:51:10 #kisslinux <midfavila1> gotta review K&R more, today...
2021-04-16T13:51:15 #kisslinux <midfavila1> thanks for reminding me
2021-04-16T13:51:30 #kisslinux <M4R10zM0113R> oh yeah C ooding
2021-04-16T13:52:12 #kisslinux <midfavila1> lisp is too bigged brained for me rn... and also I can't get GNU CLISP to compile
2021-04-16T13:52:40 #kisslinux <midfavila1> been thinking of trying to set up carnegie-mellon's common lisp implementation, but I don't know how compatible that is with the ANSI spec...
2021-04-16T13:53:36 #kisslinux <M4R10zM0113R> I rebuilt my system between yesterday and today, so far nothing has died, still unable to build qemu though
2021-04-16T13:54:01 #kisslinux <midfavila1> updating kiss is like russian roulette
2021-04-16T13:54:03 #kisslinux <midfavila1> change my mind
2021-04-16T13:54:24 #kisslinux <M4R10zM0113R> There ought to be some update order check
2021-04-16T13:54:37 #kisslinux <M4R10zM0113R> or a way to rebuild it all "in order"
2021-04-16T13:54:54 #kisslinux <M4R10zM0113R> what I did is sort packages by most mentioned in $PKGDIR/deps
2021-04-16T13:54:57 #kisslinux <midfavila1> i think it's built based on dependencies... but I haven't bothered to check
2021-04-16T13:55:07 #kisslinux <M4R10zM0113R> and then some obvious reordering for essentials
2021-04-16T13:55:29 #kisslinux <M4R10zM0113R> firefox doesn't crash tabs anymore
2021-04-16T13:55:50 #kisslinux <midfavila1> >he uses firefox
2021-04-16T13:55:59 #kisslinux <M4R10zM0113R> surf didn't want to build
2021-04-16T13:56:05 #kisslinux <midfavila1> >HE NORMALLY USES SURF
2021-04-16T13:56:12 #kisslinux <midfavila1> amazing
2021-04-16T13:56:29 #kisslinux <midfavila1> I tried to use Webkit browsers for a while, but god
2021-04-16T13:56:31 #kisslinux <midfavila1> they're so bad
2021-04-16T13:56:34 #kisslinux <M4R10zM0113R> I wanted js sites to break
2021-04-16T13:56:46 #kisslinux <midfavila1> if you want JS sites to break just use pale meme and disable JS entirely
2021-04-16T13:56:51 #kisslinux <midfavila1> alternatively, just use nmatrix
2021-04-16T13:57:04 #kisslinux <midfavila1> or, you know, netsurf...
2021-04-16T13:57:12 #kisslinux <midfavila1> ...or the patched Links in my repo with tabbed
2021-04-16T13:57:15 #kisslinux <M4R10zM0113R> I use eww for that
2021-04-16T13:57:34 #kisslinux <midfavila1> I generally dislike having multiple browsers installed
2021-04-16T13:57:40 #kisslinux <midfavila1> but it's to the point where I have to, nowadays
2021-04-16T13:58:11 #kisslinux <midfavila1> all these stupid HTML5 and CSS3 tags with their JS and their TypeScript >:c
2021-04-16T13:58:13 #kisslinux <M4R10zM0113R> I don't know what to remove to only delete surf since I got ff already
2021-04-16T13:58:27 #kisslinux <midfavila1> webkit's deps are a pain
2021-04-16T13:58:39 #kisslinux <M4R10zM0113R> surf was supplimentary since firefox didn't want to build on dylan's ded repo
2021-04-16T13:58:50 #kisslinux <M4R10zM0113R> only yesterday did I move to kiss-community
2021-04-16T13:59:00 #kisslinux <M4R10zM0113R> and qemu doesn't build for some reason, needing bash too
2021-04-16T13:59:01 #kisslinux <midfavila1> i still haven't moved my desktop over
2021-04-16T13:59:10 #kisslinux <midfavila1> ...largely because I don't use many packages from community
2021-04-16T13:59:35 #kisslinux <midfavila1> god I keep getting shitty vox content recommended to me
2021-04-16T14:00:16 #kisslinux <M4R10zM0113R> same here
2021-04-16T14:00:20 #kisslinux <M4R10zM0113R> also veritasium
2021-04-16T14:00:39 #kisslinux <M4R10zM0113R> youtube algo is favoring big moneymakers
2021-04-16T14:00:45 #kisslinux <midfavila1> well, obvs
2021-04-16T14:00:57 #kisslinux <M4R10zM0113R> Time for youtube to die under youtube-dl
2021-04-16T14:01:02 #kisslinux <midfavila1> honestly I'm considering just using RSS
2021-04-16T14:01:11 #kisslinux <M4R10zM0113R> I did exactly that a few weeks ago
2021-04-16T14:01:13 #kisslinux <midfavila1> and not even opening youtube or invidious any more
2021-04-16T14:01:28 #kisslinux <M4R10zM0113R> Transformed all my 353 subs into rss
2021-04-16T14:01:43 #kisslinux <M4R10zM0113R> had to retrieve their generic channel urls, pain
2021-04-16T14:01:45 #kisslinux <midfavila1> i think the only videos I regularly watch are...
2021-04-16T14:02:09 #kisslinux <midfavila1> Computerphile, Numberphile, Luke Smith's stuff, and... sometimes I like watching LockPickingLawyer.
2021-04-16T14:02:23 #kisslinux <M4R10zM0113R> lpl nice
2021-04-16T14:02:29 #kisslinux <midfavila1> lpl indeed.
2021-04-16T14:03:18 #kisslinux <midfavila1> I still have to update my media scripts before I'm comfortable using them full-time
2021-04-16T14:03:58 #kisslinux <midfavila1> not sure if just low entropy or a flaw in my logic but even dumping random bytes from /dev/random isn't sufficient to pick random files with my shuffle function
2021-04-16T14:04:08 #kisslinux <M4R10zM0113R> What I'd like to do is retrieve all the things I want as rss, but twatter deleted that feature long ago
2021-04-16T14:04:22 #kisslinux <midfavila1> i've never used social media
2021-04-16T14:04:23 #kisslinux <midfavila1> thank god
2021-04-16T14:04:31 #kisslinux <M4R10zM0113R> I just wanna see shitpostbot5000
2021-04-16T14:04:57 #kisslinux * midfavila1 shrugs
2021-04-16T14:05:07 #kisslinux <M4R10zM0113R> veggietales was right
2021-04-16T14:05:17 #kisslinux <midfavila1> lmao
2021-04-16T14:05:47 #kisslinux <kiedtl> veggietailes?
2021-04-16T14:05:57 #kisslinux <midfavila1> it's this really old CG kid's show
2021-04-16T14:05:59 #kisslinux <midfavila1> one sec
2021-04-16T14:06:17 #kisslinux <midfavila1> https://vid.puffyan.us/watch?v=j4Ph02gzqmY
2021-04-16T14:06:32 #kisslinux <kiedtl> Oh I remember
2021-04-16T14:06:36 #kisslinux <midfavila1> ignoring that tomatoes are fruit
2021-04-16T14:06:59 #kisslinux <kiedtl> they're releasing new episodes lately
2021-04-16T14:07:09 #kisslinux <kiedtl> bob the tomato lol
2021-04-16T14:07:35 #kisslinux <midfavila1> i assume it's a tomato
2021-04-16T14:07:46 #kisslinux <midfavila1> i'm not up to date on my, how you say
2021-04-16T14:07:48 #kisslinux <midfavila1> veggietales lore
2021-04-16T14:07:53 #kisslinux <kiedtl> heh
2021-04-16T14:08:15 #kisslinux <midfavila1> the last show I actually sat down and watched was beastars
2021-04-16T14:08:16 #kisslinux <midfavila1> which
2021-04-16T14:08:18 #kisslinux <midfavila1> for the record
2021-04-16T14:08:22 #kisslinux <midfavila1> is absolutely fuckn awesome
2021-04-16T14:08:34 #kisslinux <midfavila1> i'm only slightly biased
2021-04-16T14:19:24 #kisslinux <testuser_[m]> acheam i think there's a leak too
2021-04-16T14:19:26 #kisslinux <testuser_[m]> https://github.com/github/cmark-gfm/blob/85d895289c5ab67f988ca659493a64abb5fec7b4/src/cmark-gfm.h#L26
2021-04-16T14:24:21 #kisslinux <acheam> hmm valgrind doesn't find anything
2021-04-16T14:25:08 #kisslinux <testuser_[m]> Maybe cuz it finishes so fast ?
2021-04-16T14:25:21 #kisslinux <testuser_[m]> Or does it detect when variables go out of scope
2021-04-16T14:25:27 #kisslinux <acheam> oh wait I didn't call it right
2021-04-16T14:25:30 #kisslinux <acheam> yeah it does leek
2021-04-16T14:25:31 #kisslinux <acheam> leak
2021-04-16T14:25:47 #kisslinux <acheam> I'll look into all this this weekend
2021-04-16T14:25:49 #kisslinux <acheam> thanks!
2021-04-16T14:26:05 #kisslinux <testuser_[m]> np
2021-04-16T14:26:52 #kisslinux <testuser_[m]> Was updating the patch i made from the old fork's commits to use cmark and stuff, so checked yours for reference
2021-04-16T14:26:56 #kisslinux <testuser_[m]> Also there's a new stagit release
2021-04-16T14:41:06 #kisslinux <acheam> yeah I saw
2021-04-16T14:41:13 #kisslinux <acheam> I tried to cherry pick some commits and ended up in Git hell
2021-04-16T14:41:25 #kisslinux <acheam> so I need to sort that out first before fixing these issues lol
2021-04-16T14:46:20 #kisslinux <kiedtl> git sux --hard
2021-04-16T14:47:38 #kisslinux <acheam> lol
2021-04-16T14:55:44 #kisslinux <midfavila1> the best CVS is a PHP file browser with tarballs of your projects in date-labelled directories.
2021-04-16T14:57:12 #kisslinux <midfavila1> which reminds me, I need to learn PHP, too... so many things to do, so little time
2021-04-16T15:00:38 #kisslinux <acheam> I think you mentioned that and I wrote a shell version lol
2021-04-16T15:00:42 #kisslinux <acheam> logbot it
2021-04-16T15:09:08 #kisslinux <midfavila1> you're not my dad, you can't tell me what to do
2021-04-16T15:11:16 #kisslinux <E5ten> konimex: hell yeah
2021-04-16T15:12:35 #kisslinux <dilyn> M4R10zM0113R: why exactly are you having to rebuild things? what's the package + what requires a rebuild?
2021-04-16T15:13:01 #kisslinux <acheam> hi dilyn
2021-04-16T15:13:10 #kisslinux <dilyn> KISS doesn't rebuild dependencies automatically for breaking types of changes, we have to bump relvers to force it. but then kiss will sort them correctly so it justwerks(tm)
2021-04-16T15:13:12 #kisslinux <dilyn> sum acheam
2021-04-16T15:13:27 #kisslinux <E5ten> konimex: also, did you remove that llvm musl compat patch from wyverkiss because it (or some equivalent) is upstream now?
2021-04-16T15:13:31 #kisslinux <acheam> dilyn: 1+1=2
2021-04-16T15:13:54 #kisslinux <dilyn> acheam: s/2/3/
2021-04-16T15:13:54 #kisslinux <movzbl> <acheam> dilyn: 1+1=3
2021-04-16T15:13:58 #kisslinux <dilyn> ftfy
2021-04-16T15:14:03 #kisslinux <acheam> this aint oceania
2021-04-16T15:14:10 #kisslinux <dilyn> always was
2021-04-16T15:14:14 #kisslinux <acheam> :gasp:
2021-04-16T15:14:21 #kisslinux <konimex> I think some form of it is in upstream as when I build llvm libc++ it doesn't fail now
2021-04-16T15:14:30 #kisslinux <acheam> is kiss... the bad guy?
2021-04-16T15:14:34 #kisslinux <E5ten> very nice
2021-04-16T15:14:59 #kisslinux <dilyn> love when patches get upstreamed. do not love when my seds become useless but nobody tells me :'(
2021-04-16T15:16:51 #kisslinux <acheam> :(
2021-04-16T15:18:49 #kisslinux <E5ten> konimex: ah lol, instead of changing the file names so the command line works with byacc or bison, they just made 2 versions, one with --defines for bison, and one with -H for byacc
2021-04-16T15:18:55 #kisslinux <E5ten> I'm glad I got him to add -H lol
2021-04-16T15:19:12 #kisslinux <E5ten> I should probably request that bison add -H as a synonym for --defines on the mailing list lol
2021-04-16T15:37:51 #kisslinux <M4R10zM0113R> dilyn: moved from dylan's repo to kiss-community, some tiny bumps along the way like install order
2021-04-16T15:40:14 #kisslinux <M4R10zM0113R> only issue I've seen is qemu not wanting to build/needing bash to do so
2021-04-16T15:40:28 #kisslinux <M4R10zM0113R> https://0x0.st/-Ach.txt
2021-04-16T15:41:18 #kisslinux <acheam> testuser_[m]: I'm not entirely sure what you meant by " Btw here you should move the call to markdown function insid..."
2021-04-16T15:41:23 #kisslinux <acheam> but I fixed the leaks
2021-04-16T15:41:45 #kisslinux <M4R10zM0113R> s/install order/build/install order/
2021-04-16T15:41:45 #kisslinux <movzbl> <M4R10zM0113R> https://0x0.st/-Ach.txt
2021-04-16T15:43:04 #kisslinux <testuser_[m]> https://git.froggies.duckdns.org/kiss-repo/file/repo/stagit/patches/syntax-highlighting.patch.html
2021-04-16T15:43:07 #kisslinux <testuser_[m]> Line 60 acheam
2021-04-16T15:43:27 #kisslinux <kqz> konimex: here's a small hacky patch that _should_ let llvm build with sanitizers: https://git.sr.ht/~kqz/repo/tree/master/item/llvm/patches/fix-sanitizer-musl.patch
2021-04-16T15:43:35 #kisslinux <M4R10zM0113R> other than that, all good(? untested)
2021-04-16T15:44:01 #kisslinux <kqz> successfully built (though lto completely breaks libFuzzy linking), but looks like c++-analyer is no longer in libexec?
2021-04-16T15:44:26 #kisslinux <acheam> testuser_[m]: the problem is, it needs to work if the person has any combination of chroma or cmark
2021-04-16T15:44:42 #kisslinux <acheam> so that wouldn't work if the file is markdown, but the user doesn't have cmark
2021-04-16T15:46:32 #kisslinux <konimex> kqz : nice, it's certainly not urgent (and not really needed for KISS perhaps) but thanks for the patch
2021-04-16T15:46:37 #kisslinux <konimex> regarding c++-analyzer, it should be in /usr/lib/clang now like ccc-analyzer
2021-04-16T15:48:59 #kisslinux <acheam> kqz: consider adding your repo to a project with the kiss-repo tag
2021-04-16T15:49:02 #kisslinux <kqz> ah that would explain it, thanks! yeah I've been wanting asan to help debug a couple crashes I've been having in other programs, so figured I'd share in case anyone else wants it too
2021-04-16T15:49:40 #kisslinux <kqz> oh! yeah sure, will do that, forgot sourcehut has tags now :D
2021-04-16T15:50:01 #kisslinux <acheam> its been a thing for a while now IIRC
2021-04-16T15:52:11 #kisslinux <kqz> any idea how to add the tag off the top of your head? can't seem to find anything obvious in the repo settings
2021-04-16T15:53:16 #kisslinux <kqz> oh looks like I have to create a project and add the repo to that
2021-04-16T15:55:54 #kisslinux <acheam> yep
2021-04-16T15:56:08 #kisslinux <acheam> creating a project is good because it lets you attach mailing lists, issue trackers, etc
2021-04-16T15:56:44 #kisslinux <kqz> yeah this looks very neat! boom https://sr.ht/~kqz/repo/
2021-04-16T15:58:13 #kisslinux <midfavila1> >lto
2021-04-16T15:58:13 #kisslinux <midfavila1> v cool
2021-04-16T15:58:47 #kisslinux <kqz> haha, yeah it's fun until linking just breaks because *magic*
2021-04-16T15:59:03 #kisslinux <midfavila1> buildflags can be like that
2021-04-16T15:59:08 #kisslinux <acheam> kqz: :)
2021-04-16T15:59:15 #kisslinux <acheam> time to fork kiss-find to make it work on sr.ht
2021-04-16T15:59:34 #kisslinux <midfavila1> i should probably fork kiss myself, some time
2021-04-16T15:59:37 #kisslinux <midfavila1> i want to replace curl with axel
2021-04-16T15:59:55 #kisslinux <kqz> that'd be great! still new to sourcehut but enjoying it a lot, working on packaging it now so i can set up my own instance
2021-04-16T16:00:47 #kisslinux <acheam> > working on packaging it
2021-04-16T16:00:57 #kisslinux <acheam> gl&hf
2021-04-16T16:01:25 #kisslinux <kqz> hahahaha yep, I have packaged I think 60 different python libs so far just to get git.sr.ht and meta.sr.ht _working_
2021-04-16T16:01:47 #kisslinux <midfavila1> that sounds about right.
2021-04-16T16:01:49 #kisslinux <midfavila1> python is gross
2021-04-16T16:02:04 #kisslinux <midfavila1> i have to manually specify endianness on my machine to even get it to compile
2021-04-16T16:02:10 #kisslinux <acheam> ddevault wants to eventually get python out of the stack
2021-04-16T16:02:26 #kisslinux <midfavila1> replace python with devaultlang
2021-04-16T16:02:35 #kisslinux <kqz> oooh yes please! lol most of the libs are pretty small but i still feel kind of gross having all these extra deps installed
2021-04-16T16:02:50 #kisslinux <testuser_[m]> Why not use a virtual env
2021-04-16T16:03:04 #kisslinux <midfavila1> that just kicks the can down the road.
2021-04-16T16:03:12 #kisslinux <midfavila1> 's not a real fix.
2021-04-16T16:03:14 #kisslinux <kqz> i'd rather have them managed by me and the package manager ;d
2021-04-16T16:03:19 #kisslinux <testuser_[m]> It isn't
2021-04-16T16:03:31 #kisslinux <testuser_[m]> Yeah i like to have it managed too but its too annoying to package individual python xeap
2021-04-16T16:03:32 #kisslinux <testuser_[m]> Crap
2021-04-16T16:04:00 #kisslinux <midfavila1> should replace python with lisp. change my mind.
2021-04-16T16:16:08 #kisslinux <M4R10zM0113R> >build clisp
2021-04-16T16:16:31 #kisslinux <M4R10zM0113R> anyone got repo for kiss on clisp?
2021-04-16T16:17:19 #kisslinux <M4R10zM0113R> Trying to read K&R/SICP for real
2021-04-16T16:17:35 #kisslinux <M4R10zM0113R> 😅
2021-04-16T16:18:08 #kisslinux <midfavila1> if you're not meming, don't use common lisp for sicp
2021-04-16T16:18:17 #kisslinux <midfavila1> use MIT scheme
2021-04-16T16:18:25 #kisslinux <midfavila1> or scheme48
2021-04-16T16:19:20 #kisslinux <midfavila1> the latter is packaged in my repo
2021-04-16T16:21:37 #kisslinux <M4R10zM0113R> ooo
2021-04-16T16:22:20 #kisslinux <midfavila1> https://git.sdf.org/midfavila/kiss-mfavila
2021-04-16T16:22:24 #kisslinux <midfavila1> it's under ports.
2021-04-16T16:33:25 #kisslinux <mmatongo> testuser_[m]
2021-04-16T16:33:45 #kisslinux <mmatongo> I'm here now
2021-04-16T16:34:01 #kisslinux <mmatongo> Hi everyone
2021-04-16T16:42:41 #kisslinux <dilyn> kqz: does pip let you specify an install dir? you could just build a package called 'py-dumbdeps' and just make it call pip install lmfao
2021-04-16T16:43:04 #kisslinux <dilyn> mmatongo: i commented on the libgit issue
2021-04-16T16:43:09 #kisslinux <dilyn> also o/
2021-04-16T16:43:47 #kisslinux <mmatongo> I just saw your comment dilyn
2021-04-16T16:47:05 #kisslinux <testuser_[m]> Hi mmatongo
2021-04-16T17:04:32 #kisslinux <mmatongo> Updated libgit2
2021-04-16T17:04:48 #kisslinux <mmatongo> it should be sane now
2021-04-16T17:06:23 #kisslinux <mmatongo> https://0x0.st/-AAz.txt
2021-04-16T17:07:26 #kisslinux <testuser_[m]> You can remove the zlib line btw looks like its off by default according to cmakelists
2021-04-16T17:07:49 #kisslinux <mmatongo> :/
2021-04-16T17:09:11 #kisslinux <mmatongo> I think it does no harm then to leave it as is.
2021-04-16T17:09:33 #kisslinux <testuser_[m]> Cool
2021-04-16T17:12:58 #kisslinux <kqz> dilyn: oh not sure, but that's a good idea, gonna see if I can do something like that instead lol
2021-04-16T17:14:16 #kisslinux <kqz> could also probably just make one huge "meta" package that just builds all these libs and install them, the build files for them are all identical
2021-04-16T17:14:23 #kisslinux <M4R10zM0113R> interesting, didn't know about 'kiss b' in the repo's pkgdir
2021-04-16T17:19:38 #kisslinux <midfavila1> for those of you who don't use busybox on kiss, what do you use to provide process management tools e.g top?
2021-04-16T17:20:10 #kisslinux <midfavila1> i've been using procps, but it's kind of clunky and grumbles a lot when compiled against musl
2021-04-16T17:35:37 #kisslinux <dilyn> bottom
2021-04-16T17:47:52 #kisslinux <jslick> til about bottom
2021-04-16T17:48:13 #kisslinux <midfavila1> >written in rust
2021-04-16T17:48:14 #kisslinux <midfavila1> smh
2021-04-16T17:48:24 #kisslinux <midfavila1> looks nifty though.
2021-04-16T17:55:33 #kisslinux <kiedtl> What's the point of all these hundreds of system monitors that just show giant panes of nice cpu usage graphs and only devote one corner to the process list
2021-04-16T17:55:48 #kisslinux <midfavila1> r/unixporn posts
2021-04-16T17:55:52 #kisslinux <kiedtl> it's not supposed to be a fucking grafana smh
2021-04-16T17:56:00 #kisslinux <kiedtl> lol maybe
2021-04-16T17:56:03 #kisslinux <midfavila1> practicality is for fuckn NERDS
2021-04-16T17:57:02 #kisslinux <jslick> press e to expand
2021-04-16T17:57:09 #kisslinux <midfavila1> :thinking:
2021-04-16T17:57:27 #kisslinux <kiedtl> Should be the default imo
2021-04-16T17:58:23 #kisslinux <jslick> There's also btm -b to open in "basic" mode, but at first glance, it appears to be a less good htop
2021-04-16T17:58:59 #kisslinux <midfavila1> htop is okay, but it's a bit much for me
2021-04-16T17:59:16 #kisslinux <midfavila1> i literally just want a top that lets me scroll the process list, but I guess nobody uses top any more
2021-04-16T17:59:35 #kisslinux <midfavila1> i should just go back to using irix. smh.
2021-04-16T18:00:00 #kisslinux <jslick> You could... write another one
2021-04-16T18:00:28 #kisslinux <midfavila1> i mean, once I'm competent with regards to C, I probably will
2021-04-16T18:01:53 #kisslinux <midfavila1> ideally I'd be able to just use procps-ng, but last time I tried to build that on a musl system it didn't end well
2021-04-16T18:02:34 #kisslinux <testuser[m]_> It works fine
2021-04-16T18:02:36 #kisslinux <testuser[m]_> On musl
2021-04-16T18:02:54 #kisslinux <testuser[m]_> It's in community too
2021-04-16T18:03:04 #kisslinux * midfavila1 blinks
2021-04-16T18:03:35 #kisslinux <midfavila1> ...well shit, so it is.
2021-04-16T18:03:53 #kisslinux <midfavila1> last time I tried was just in my own repo. problem solved then. thanks.
2021-04-16T18:06:22 #kisslinux <dilyn> lol
2021-04-16T18:06:33 #kisslinux <dilyn> isn't procs also just that
2021-04-16T18:06:35 #kisslinux <dilyn> tho also in rust
2021-04-16T18:06:42 #kisslinux <midfavila1> i don't do rust.
2021-04-16T18:07:49 #kisslinux <testuser[m]_> You don't use community midfavila ?
2021-04-16T18:07:56 #kisslinux <midfavila1> not really, no.
2021-04-16T18:08:29 #kisslinux <midfavila1> like, I have it available... but most of my stuff is self-packaged. i think the only software I use from community is... qemu, pfetch, hummingbird, and sysmgr.
2021-04-16T18:15:58 #kisslinux <dilyn> packaging all your own stuff is very satisfying
2021-04-16T18:16:13 #kisslinux <midfavila1> it makes me feel like I'm being Productive:tm:
2021-04-16T18:16:58 #kisslinux <midfavila1> i need to put some more polish into my packages though... as it stands they aren't labelled properly. and I need to switch to stable tarballs as opposed to mostly git pulls.
2021-04-16T18:17:00 #kisslinux <dilyn> imagine doing it for like five repos :v
2021-04-16T18:17:22 #kisslinux <dilyn> stability is overrated. i wanna be worried every time I restart that it won't come back up
2021-04-16T18:17:36 #kisslinux <midfavila1> the concern is more source retrieval speed
2021-04-16T18:17:42 #kisslinux <midfavila1> git is slow as fuck compared to axel
2021-04-16T18:17:57 #kisslinux <midfavila1> but stability is also nice.
2021-04-16T18:19:05 #kisslinux <midfavila1> ...oh, and then there's the whole compressed tarball versus uncompressed everything.
2021-04-16T18:32:38 #kisslinux <spryc2> i see that kiss and all of dylans other projects are licensed under the MIT license, does anyone know his reasonings behind that?
2021-04-16T18:35:06 #kisslinux <midfavila1> track him down and ask
2021-04-16T18:35:22 #kisslinux <midfavila1> i've heard rumors that he's shown up around other projects.
2021-04-16T18:35:33 #kisslinux <spryc2> sure! lets message his mother on facebook
2021-04-16T18:35:36 #kisslinux <spryc2> dont do that
2021-04-16T18:35:46 #kisslinux <midfavila1> you say that, but we almost did, earlier
2021-04-16T18:35:47 #kisslinux <midfavila1> lmao
2021-04-16T18:36:26 #kisslinux <spryc2> im just now learning more about licenses and i want to know what some reasons behind using a permissive license like the MIT
2021-04-16T18:37:05 #kisslinux <midfavila1> well, some people are just morally opposed to the tactics of the GPL
2021-04-16T18:37:41 #kisslinux <ominous_anonymou> i usually use MIT because i don't give a shit whether you use my code or not. of course, i'm not anywhere near a level where anyone actually uses my code so it doesn't matter nearly as much as bigger projects
2021-04-16T18:38:27 #kisslinux <spryc2> i know many people are against GNU in general but i don't see the benefits of making anyone be able to take your code and make it proprietary if they wish
2021-04-16T18:38:41 #kisslinux <midfavila1> the GPL doesn't allow for True Freedom:tm:
2021-04-16T18:38:49 #kisslinux <midfavila1> or so the argument goes
2021-04-16T18:39:04 #kisslinux <dilyn> they aren't making your code proprietary, they are making a copy of your code proprietary
2021-04-16T18:39:07 #kisslinux <dilyn> there is a difference
2021-04-16T18:39:40 #kisslinux <spryc2> and afaik with most permissive licenses you could even use the same name for it
2021-04-16T18:40:47 #kisslinux <spryc2> if i were to use GPL i would use v2 though
2021-04-16T19:03:04 #kisslinux <midfavila> so here's a million dollar question for you guys
2021-04-16T19:03:20 #kisslinux <midfavila> is anyone else getting segfaults with oksh when installing packages?
2021-04-16T19:09:37 #kisslinux <spryc2> what are the benefits of using oksh as an interactive shell over for example the default ash?
2021-04-16T19:09:46 #kisslinux <midfavila> I don't have to use busybox.
2021-04-16T19:09:58 #kisslinux <spryc2> do you not use anything busybox?
2021-04-16T19:10:02 #kisslinux <midfavila> Correct.
2021-04-16T19:10:13 #kisslinux <spryc2> what core utilities are you using?
2021-04-16T19:10:37 #kisslinux <midfavila> Suckless, supplemented with BSD and Plan 9 where possible
2021-04-16T19:10:46 #kisslinux <midfavila> where not, I'll use GNU tools
2021-04-16T19:10:57 #kisslinux <spryc2> that is very interesting
2021-04-16T19:11:06 #kisslinux * midfavila shrugs
2021-04-16T19:11:24 #kisslinux <spryc2> i have been intrigued by core utilities that are simpler
2021-04-16T19:11:33 #kisslinux <spryc2> and kiss has a very good alternatives system
2021-04-16T19:11:35 #kisslinux <midfavila> I'd prefer to use heirloom tools over Plan 9, but... that's less and less of a choice every day
2021-04-16T19:14:17 #kisslinux <spryc2> 'kiss a' really makes switching utilities quite easy
2021-04-16T19:20:38 #kisslinux <dilyn> segfaults on anything in particular, or just on plenty of things?
2021-04-16T19:20:49 #kisslinux <dilyn> nobody else has reported tho afaik there are only two other people who use ksh as sh
2021-04-16T19:20:59 #kisslinux <midfavila> specifically it was during the "installing package" phase
2021-04-16T19:21:19 #kisslinux <dilyn> does it happen every time or just sometimes?
2021-04-16T19:21:22 #kisslinux <midfavila> every time
2021-04-16T19:21:25 #kisslinux <dilyn> wowee
2021-04-16T19:21:26 #kisslinux <midfavila> it might be my cflags
2021-04-16T19:21:28 #kisslinux <dilyn> what package?
2021-04-16T19:21:29 #kisslinux <dilyn> it might be
2021-04-16T19:21:35 #kisslinux <midfavila> >what package
2021-04-16T19:21:35 #kisslinux <midfavila> yes
2021-04-16T19:21:39 #kisslinux <dilyn> LMFAO
2021-04-16T19:21:46 #kisslinux <dilyn> well we would've heard about THAT
2021-04-16T19:21:49 #kisslinux <dilyn> what are you CFLAGS?
2021-04-16T19:22:04 #kisslinux <dilyn> it's just regular old gcc and binutils? nothign fancy?
2021-04-16T19:22:12 #kisslinux <midfavila> yeah, just regular gcc and binutils.
2021-04-16T19:22:26 #kisslinux <midfavila> it's 99% my cflags, but it's weird that it doesn't happen with any other shell
2021-04-16T19:22:35 #kisslinux <midfavila> i'm not posting my cflags because I don't want to be bullied >:c
2021-04-16T19:22:47 #kisslinux <dilyn> I think ksh is just a bad nonteractive shell...
2021-04-16T19:22:59 #kisslinux <dilyn> s/nonteractive/noninteractive/
2021-04-16T19:22:59 #kisslinux <movzbl> <dilyn> I think ksh is just a bad noninteractive shell...
2021-04-16T19:23:00 #kisslinux <midfavila> it's not amazing
2021-04-16T19:23:27 #kisslinux <dilyn> this hot take brought to you by dash sh gang
2021-04-16T19:23:28 #kisslinux <midfavila> but I'd rather one statically-linked 200kb shell than two 800kb dynamically linked shells
2021-04-16T19:23:35 #kisslinux <midfavila> (dash and mksh)
2021-04-16T19:23:45 #kisslinux <midfavila> I *might* try mrsh.
2021-04-16T19:23:53 #kisslinux <spryc2> dilyn: you were the one using toybox right?
2021-04-16T19:24:04 #kisslinux <dilyn> mmhmm
2021-04-16T19:24:18 #kisslinux <spryc2> toybox doesnt have ash right?
2021-04-16T19:24:29 #kisslinux <dilyn> static dash 200kb, static oksh 256kb. ftw
2021-04-16T19:24:38 #kisslinux <dilyn> toybox sh is semi-done but not usable
2021-04-16T19:24:41 #kisslinux <spryc2> is oksh smaller than mksh?
2021-04-16T19:24:51 #kisslinux <midfavila> oksh is about a quarter of mksh's size
2021-04-16T19:24:57 #kisslinux <spryc2> oh
2021-04-16T19:25:11 #kisslinux <midfavila> er, statically linked versus dynamically, both stripped
2021-04-16T19:25:15 #kisslinux <midfavila> at least last I bothered to check.
2021-04-16T19:25:19 #kisslinux <midfavila> i haven't used mksh in months
2021-04-16T19:25:23 #kisslinux <dilyn> static shells are the only shells worth having
2021-04-16T19:25:33 #kisslinux <spryc2> idk why i couldnt get oksh to use .kshrc
2021-04-16T19:25:43 #kisslinux <midfavila> because it uses the ENV variable
2021-04-16T19:25:46 #kisslinux <dilyn> ^
2021-04-16T19:25:47 #kisslinux <midfavila> to determine what rc to read
2021-04-16T19:25:51 #kisslinux <dilyn> gotta pull it in from .profile
2021-04-16T19:25:57 #kisslinux <midfavila> uh, no
2021-04-16T19:26:03 #kisslinux <midfavila> you can export it in /etc/profile.
2021-04-16T19:26:06 #kisslinux <midfavila> much better way to do it.
2021-04-16T19:26:12 #kisslinux <dilyn> i mean
2021-04-16T19:26:17 #kisslinux <dilyn> ones per user
2021-04-16T19:26:20 #kisslinux <spryc2> so i could for example make it read .config/kshrc instead?
2021-04-16T19:26:23 #kisslinux <midfavila> yes
2021-04-16T19:26:25 #kisslinux <spryc2> thats more neat
2021-04-16T19:26:28 #kisslinux <midfavila> that's what I do
2021-04-16T19:26:31 #kisslinux <spryc2> ill do that
2021-04-16T19:26:36 #kisslinux <midfavila> /home/midfavila/.config/shrc
2021-04-16T19:26:47 #kisslinux <midfavila> now if you'll excuse me
2021-04-16T19:26:51 #kisslinux <midfavila> i've just nuked my new install
2021-04-16T19:26:55 #kisslinux <midfavila> and have to go clean that up
2021-04-16T19:27:06 #kisslinux <midfavila> the KISS experience:tm:
2021-04-16T19:27:10 #kisslinux <dilyn> ah, the weekly clensing
2021-04-16T19:27:21 #kisslinux <midfavila> it's just fucking annoying
2021-04-16T19:27:28 #kisslinux <spryc2> i might install kiss on one of my laptops
2021-04-16T19:27:34 #kisslinux <midfavila> because even with my machine, building all my stuff takes an hour or two
2021-04-16T19:27:34 #kisslinux <spryc2> the T60 may be too slow
2021-04-16T19:27:40 #kisslinux <midfavila> oh, jesus
2021-04-16T19:27:40 #kisslinux <spryc2> but the other one should be fine
2021-04-16T19:27:46 #kisslinux <midfavila> if you're using a t60 you'll want a build machine
2021-04-16T19:27:58 #kisslinux <midfavila> i have a 48-thread xeon machine and some packages still take ages
2021-04-16T19:27:59 #kisslinux <spryc2> mmh
2021-04-16T19:28:06 #kisslinux <spryc2> the t60 is running openbsd atm
2021-04-16T19:28:09 #kisslinux <spryc2> has been for a while
2021-04-16T19:28:11 #kisslinux <midfavila> openbased
2021-04-16T19:28:22 #kisslinux <spryc2> i like it yeah
2021-04-16T19:28:39 #kisslinux <midfavila> i installed it in a vm the other day
2021-04-16T19:28:50 #kisslinux <midfavila> since hyperbolaBSD will be forked from openBSD
2021-04-16T19:28:57 #kisslinux <spryc2> my other laptop is 2c4t @ 3.4ghz
2021-04-16T19:28:58 #kisslinux <midfavila> at such a time I will likely fork kiss
2021-04-16T19:29:25 #kisslinux <midfavila> and make a totally better and awesome-r variant that, I'm sure, will be universally adopted
2021-04-16T19:29:41 #kisslinux <midfavila> and definitely not used by a single person.
2021-04-16T19:30:27 #kisslinux <spryc2> if i set ENV to /home/user/.config/ksh/kshrc that should be it yeah?
2021-04-16T19:30:33 #kisslinux <midfavila> Yes.
2021-04-16T19:30:49 #kisslinux <midfavila> export ENV=$HOME/.config/ksh/kshrc
2021-04-16T19:37:30 #kisslinux <aarng> I source ~/.config/sh/login via /etc/profile.d/zz-user_profile.sh
2021-04-16T19:38:21 #kisslinux <spryc2> a bit sad firefox doesn't support moving it's .mozilla folder elsewhere
2021-04-16T19:38:23 #kisslinux <aarng> then set ENV in there for interactive shells
2021-04-16T19:38:43 #kisslinux <spryc2> i think .mozilla should be .local/share/mozilla instead
2021-04-16T19:38:46 #kisslinux <aarng> which in my case would be ~/.config/sh/interactive
2021-04-16T19:39:22 #kisslinux <aarng> that way you have a nice shell agnostic system inside .config
2021-04-16T19:41:47 #kisslinux <spryc2> make sure to spring clean your home!
2021-04-16T19:41:54 #kisslinux <midfavila> make sure to erase /home
2021-04-16T19:41:58 #kisslinux <midfavila> because /home is a mistake
2021-04-16T19:42:02 #kisslinux <midfavila> users belong under /usr
2021-04-16T19:42:06 #kisslinux <spryc2> ok
2021-04-16T19:42:18 #kisslinux <spryc2> dot files being hidden was a bug in unices
2021-04-16T19:42:21 #kisslinux <spryc2> revert
2021-04-16T19:43:30 #kisslinux <midfavila> ah, but it was a useful bug
2021-04-16T19:43:58 #kisslinux <midfavila> home was a solution to a problem that shouldn't have existed in the first place.
2021-04-16T19:45:22 #kisslinux <spryc2> im very tempted to switch out busybox now
2021-04-16T19:45:51 #kisslinux <midfavila> just remember to grab standalone tools
2021-04-16T19:46:01 #kisslinux <midfavila> e.g patch, findutils, diffutils, sed, awk
2021-04-16T19:46:10 #kisslinux <spryc2> yeah.
2021-04-16T19:46:10 #kisslinux <midfavila> i also recommend libarchive for tar and cpio.
2021-04-16T19:46:33 #kisslinux <spryc2> im thinking ubase and sbase
2021-04-16T19:46:41 #kisslinux <spryc2> for the core
2021-04-16T19:46:46 #kisslinux <midfavila> patrician choice.
2021-04-16T19:47:15 #kisslinux <spryc2> both are in the repos!
2021-04-16T19:47:20 #kisslinux <midfavila> indeed they are
2021-04-16T19:47:22 #kisslinux <spryc2> my lucky day truly
2021-04-16T19:47:31 #kisslinux <midfavila> mind that they install monolithic binaries by default
2021-04-16T19:47:52 #kisslinux <dilyn> toybox is bae
2021-04-16T19:47:54 #kisslinux <dilyn> 0bsd ftw
2021-04-16T19:48:03 #kisslinux <midfavila> cuck license.
2021-04-16T19:48:06 #kisslinux <dilyn> just use nawk and libarchive and you're gucci gang
2021-04-16T19:48:12 #kisslinux <dilyn> it's like, the least cuck mang
2021-04-16T19:48:14 #kisslinux <midfavila> >not otawk
2021-04-16T19:48:22 #kisslinux <midfavila> you're literally not even using a meme machine.
2021-04-16T19:48:31 #kisslinux <dilyn> ...meme?
2021-04-16T19:48:32 #kisslinux <spryc2> monolithic binaries as in runs in kernel space?
2021-04-16T19:48:34 #kisslinux <dilyn> was this my goal
2021-04-16T19:48:45 #kisslinux <midfavila> no, monolithic as in one program encompassing many others
2021-04-16T19:48:48 #kisslinux <midfavila> busybox is also monolithic
2021-04-16T19:48:59 #kisslinux <midfavila> by default {s,u}base function the same
2021-04-16T19:49:14 #kisslinux <midfavila> where it's a single binary and each program is just a symlink to a "box"
2021-04-16T19:49:18 #kisslinux <midfavila> sbase-box or ubase-box.
2021-04-16T19:49:25 #kisslinux <midfavila> this, of course, saves space
2021-04-16T19:49:31 #kisslinux <midfavila> but it's also a single point of failure
2021-04-16T19:49:34 #kisslinux <spryc2> oh that makes sense
2021-04-16T19:49:51 #kisslinux <ominous_anonymou> spryc2 https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=259356 re: .mozilla directory moving
2021-04-16T19:50:25 #kisslinux <midfavila> if the guy who knows the dev of nuegia browser is here, you should convince him to move the default config directory's location
2021-04-16T19:50:43 #kisslinux <midfavila> pls
2021-04-16T19:51:31 #kisslinux <spryc2> you should ideally not have them be monolithic if you are using them as your normal utils right?, midfavila
2021-04-16T19:51:47 #kisslinux <midfavila> well, depends on your system's specs
2021-04-16T19:52:01 #kisslinux <midfavila> if you have hundreds upon hundreds of gigs, a few megs might not matter
2021-04-16T19:52:13 #kisslinux <midfavila> but for older laptops with smaller drives it might help to compact them
2021-04-16T19:52:19 #kisslinux <spryc2> yeah i do have lots of space on this
2021-04-16T19:52:22 #kisslinux <spryc2> its my desktop
2021-04-16T19:52:24 #kisslinux <midfavila> i'd argue it's mostly a matter of preference
2021-04-16T19:52:39 #kisslinux <midfavila> since the suckless tools are *hilariously* tiny
2021-04-16T19:52:56 #kisslinux <midfavila> statically linked against musl, sbase-box is less than 50kb
2021-04-16T19:53:05 #kisslinux <midfavila> ubase is about the same
2021-04-16T19:53:12 #kisslinux <spryc2> theres also 9base but that would need way more supplementation
2021-04-16T19:53:24 #kisslinux <midfavila> 9base is good to supplement s and ubase
2021-04-16T19:53:33 #kisslinux <midfavila> it includes things like fortune and roff
2021-04-16T19:53:43 #kisslinux <spryc2> i use neatroff
2021-04-16T19:53:57 #kisslinux <midfavila> i'm a horrible person and use mandoc
2021-04-16T19:53:59 #kisslinux <midfavila> :^)
2021-04-16T19:54:05 #kisslinux <midfavila> speaking of which
2021-04-16T19:54:15 #kisslinux <midfavila> can we link soelim to zsoelim in the mandoc package
2021-04-16T19:54:23 #kisslinux <midfavila> a lot of older programs expect zsoelim instead of soelim
2021-04-16T19:54:32 #kisslinux <spryc2> i write all my school assignments in neatroff
2021-04-16T19:54:36 #kisslinux <spryc2> it's quite neat
2021-04-16T19:54:53 #kisslinux <midfavila> i wish I had known a markup language when i still had to write papers
2021-04-16T19:55:03 #kisslinux <midfavila> at the time I quite literally had zero spare time
2021-04-16T19:55:12 #kisslinux <midfavila> so I had to use libreoffice
2021-04-16T19:55:15 #kisslinux <midfavila> word of advice
2021-04-16T19:55:17 #kisslinux <midfavila> never compile libreoffice
2021-04-16T19:55:18 #kisslinux <midfavila> ever
2021-04-16T19:55:26 #kisslinux <midfavila> because you will need gfortran
2021-04-16T19:55:39 #kisslinux <midfavila> gfortran is pain.
2021-04-16T19:56:26 #kisslinux <spryc2> do you have any idea what the differences are between some of the conflicting ubase and sbase utils are?
2021-04-16T19:56:54 #kisslinux <midfavila> iirc ubase is linux-exclusive, sbase is generic
2021-04-16T19:57:05 #kisslinux <midfavila> i tend to switch to all-ubase first, and then switch to sbase.
2021-04-16T19:57:10 #kisslinux <spryc2> for example the dd command overlaps
2021-04-16T19:57:47 #kisslinux <spryc2> i will probably still use gnugrep since it is a bit faster than other implementations
2021-04-16T19:57:50 #kisslinux <ominous_anonymou> i keep a Windows 10 VM solely for microsoft office usage
2021-04-16T19:58:25 #kisslinux <midfavila> ngl I don't find the speed difference between suckless and gnu grep to be that noticable.
2021-04-16T20:00:30 #kisslinux <spryc2> since suckless doesn't provide things like sed and awk what would you recommend for those?
2021-04-16T20:00:43 #kisslinux <midfavila> well, suckless does provide a sed
2021-04-16T20:00:47 #kisslinux <midfavila> but it's strictly posix
2021-04-16T20:00:47 #kisslinux <merakor2> Sbase does provide sed
2021-04-16T20:01:00 #kisslinux <midfavila> and 9base is so minimal that it doesn't even have -i
2021-04-16T20:01:05 #kisslinux <midfavila> there's a standalone sed in community, I think
2021-04-16T20:01:09 #kisslinux <midfavila> it might be GNU sed
2021-04-16T20:01:12 #kisslinux <midfavila> as for awk,
2021-04-16T20:01:16 #kisslinux <midfavila> I use otawk
2021-04-16T20:01:57 #kisslinux <spryc2> sbase does actually provide one, you are right
2021-04-16T20:02:14 #kisslinux <spryc2> i guess it needs a restart for me to use the ones i swapped with 'kiss a?'
2021-04-16T20:02:21 #kisslinux <midfavila> it's packaged at https://git.sdf.org/midfavila/kiss-mfavila/src/branch/master/ports/otawk
2021-04-16T20:02:23 #kisslinux <midfavila> and no
2021-04-16T20:02:25 #kisslinux <midfavila> it does not
2021-04-16T20:02:29 #kisslinux <midfavila> but don't use suckless sed
2021-04-16T20:02:32 #kisslinux <midfavila> because it sucksmore
2021-04-16T20:02:51 #kisslinux <spryc2> things like sed -i are very useful indeed
2021-04-16T20:03:01 #kisslinux <spryc2> one not so useful is cat -v!
2021-04-16T20:03:15 #kisslinux <midfavila> something something uriel
2021-04-16T20:03:40 #kisslinux <midfavila> damn.
2021-04-16T20:03:46 #kisslinux <midfavila> can't use mrsh as my system shell.
2021-04-16T20:04:02 #kisslinux <midfavila> well, that's partially expected.
2021-04-16T20:04:11 #kisslinux <spryc2> uriel was only about 30....
2021-04-16T20:04:27 #kisslinux <spryc2> now he is in a world without XML...
2021-04-16T20:06:07 #kisslinux <spryc2> what other things than sed and awk does busybox provide that sbase and ubase do not
2021-04-16T20:06:17 #kisslinux <midfavila> uh, lots and lots of things
2021-04-16T20:06:21 #kisslinux <midfavila> like networking utilities
2021-04-16T20:06:29 #kisslinux <midfavila> and filesystem tools
2021-04-16T20:06:36 #kisslinux <midfavila> and an init and service management system
2021-04-16T20:06:41 #kisslinux <dilyn> yeah busybox is massive
2021-04-16T20:06:42 #kisslinux <midfavila> ...and a device node manager...
2021-04-16T20:06:48 #kisslinux <midfavila> ...and a shell...
2021-04-16T20:06:55 #kisslinux <midfavila> you get the idea.
2021-04-16T20:06:58 #kisslinux <spryc2> oh shit i realised
2021-04-16T20:06:59 #kisslinux <midfavila> oh, a text editor
2021-04-16T20:07:02 #kisslinux <spryc2> busybox is init too
2021-04-16T20:07:06 #kisslinux <dilyn> if you do kiss-manifest busybox you can see everything that's left in /usr/bin that you'd have to replace
2021-04-16T20:07:07 #kisslinux <midfavila> well, sbase has ed
2021-04-16T20:07:17 #kisslinux <dilyn> you can use hummingbird, it's 100% drop in
2021-04-16T20:07:24 #kisslinux <midfavila> hummingbird is fuckn a
2021-04-16T20:07:33 #kisslinux <midfavila> 100% recommended
2021-04-16T20:07:37 #kisslinux <dilyn> Sweets is MVP
2021-04-16T20:07:39 #kisslinux <midfavila> especially paired with sysmgr
2021-04-16T20:07:48 #kisslinux <midfavila> ...even if sysmgr is a little wonky to use at first
2021-04-16T20:07:58 #kisslinux <midfavila> well, it's just wonky.
2021-04-16T20:08:00 #kisslinux <midfavila> end of discussion. lmao
2021-04-16T20:08:24 #kisslinux <dilyn> it ain't that wonky!
2021-04-16T20:08:38 #kisslinux <midfavila> you're right, it's not that wonky
2021-04-16T20:08:40 #kisslinux <midfavila> but it's still wonk
2021-04-16T20:08:59 #kisslinux <midfavila> on a scale from w to wonk, it's a pretty firm won
2021-04-16T20:09:05 #kisslinux <midfavila> anyway
2021-04-16T20:09:28 #kisslinux <midfavila> unrelated question but does anyone experienced with Xenocara know if it's an actually seperate codebase from Xorg?
2021-04-16T20:09:42 #kisslinux <midfavila> if it doesn't like musl then I won't be able to port it, because I'm a literal C brainlet
2021-04-16T20:10:05 #kisslinux <spryc2> heres a quick diff, wow busybox does provide many things http://0x0.st/-Amj.txt
2021-04-16T20:10:15 #kisslinux <dilyn> isn't it a wholly distinct thing? that uses bsd syscalls?
2021-04-16T20:10:24 #kisslinux <midfavila> well, I'm not sure
2021-04-16T20:10:29 #kisslinux <midfavila> but I know hyperbola uses it
2021-04-16T20:10:34 #kisslinux <midfavila> so it clearly runs on linux
2021-04-16T20:10:43 #kisslinux <midfavila> i just don't know how well it would run on a musl system
2021-04-16T20:10:54 #kisslinux <midfavila> or, uh, rather, if it would run.
2021-04-16T20:12:14 #kisslinux <spryc2> i need quite a few things busybox wont have
2021-04-16T20:12:14 #kisslinux <dilyn> only one way to find out!
2021-04-16T20:12:18 #kisslinux <ominous_anonymou> https://www.reddit.com/r/voidlinux/comments/dlyqt8/openbsds_xenocara_ported_to_linux/
2021-04-16T20:12:26 #kisslinux <dilyn> I don't think anyone else has bothered in the Linux space to even bring it over besides hyperbola
2021-04-16T20:12:43 #kisslinux <midfavila> that is correct
2021-04-16T20:12:44 #kisslinux <dilyn> it doesn't look like a heinous amount of packages tbh
2021-04-16T20:12:49 #kisslinux <midfavila> and it isn't
2021-04-16T20:12:59 #kisslinux <ominous_anonymou> https://www.hyperbola.info/todo/xenocara-migration/
2021-04-16T20:13:27 #kisslinux <midfavila> (we should totally use xenocara)
2021-04-16T20:13:31 #kisslinux <midfavila> (just saying)
2021-04-16T20:13:35 #kisslinux <midfavila> (hint hint)
2021-04-16T20:13:53 #kisslinux <dilyn> i'd use wayland before xenocara
2021-04-16T20:13:58 #kisslinux <dilyn> no disrespect to the bsd folx
2021-04-16T20:14:06 #kisslinux <midfavila> wayland is garbage
2021-04-16T20:14:16 #kisslinux <dilyn> lol
2021-04-16T20:15:10 #kisslinux <midfavila> seriously. why would I bother with it when there're basically only three graphical environments available, and they all require that you sacrifice anything that isn't Qt or GTK <3?
2021-04-16T20:15:27 #kisslinux <midfavila> ...that, or literally just run X inside Wayland.
2021-04-16T20:15:36 #kisslinux <midfavila> ...which... no.
2021-04-16T20:15:55 #kisslinux <ominous_anonymou> four! you're forgetting arcan!
2021-04-16T20:16:05 #kisslinux <midfavila> if it's a tiler, it's not unique.
2021-04-16T20:16:13 #kisslinux <ominous_anonymou> https://arcan-fe.com/2021/04/12/introducing-pipeworld/
2021-04-16T20:16:25 #kisslinux <ominous_anonymou> it's unique
2021-04-16T20:16:30 #kisslinux <dilyn> river is unique
2021-04-16T20:17:10 #kisslinux <dilyn> i mean, that not many people have written compositors for wayland doesn't mean it's garbage. that just means nobody has wanted to do the work of writing an entire compositor for wayland. which is admittedly very hard
2021-04-16T20:17:23 #kisslinux <dilyn> but like, almost every X environment is identical. sooo....
2021-04-16T20:17:31 #kisslinux <midfavila> it's not that there aren't many compositors, there's plenty
2021-04-16T20:17:43 #kisslinux <midfavila> ...if you want to use either KDE, GNOME, or $tiling_wm
2021-04-16T20:17:57 #kisslinux <midfavila> or like
2021-04-16T20:17:58 #kisslinux <midfavila> weston
2021-04-16T20:17:59 #kisslinux <midfavila> i guess
2021-04-16T20:18:06 #kisslinux <dilyn> weston is not meant to be used
2021-04-16T20:18:11 #kisslinux <dilyn> it's a proof of concept...
2021-04-16T20:18:13 #kisslinux <midfavila> yes, hence the "I guess"
2021-04-16T20:18:15 #kisslinux <dilyn> lol
2021-04-16T20:21:23 #kisslinux <ominous_anonymou> i just blindly follow whatever he says usually, so far its worked well: http://phroxy.z3bra.org/phlog.z3bra.org:70/0/my-love-hate-relationship-with-wayland.txt
2021-04-16T20:21:32 #kisslinux <ominous_anonymou> http://phroxy.z3bra.org/z3bra.org:70/1/notes/wayland
2021-04-16T20:27:00 #kisslinux <spryc2> swc is the compositor i'd use i think
2021-04-16T20:28:41 #kisslinux <dilyn> glhf
2021-04-16T20:28:47 #kisslinux <midfavila> i can't abandon fvwm at this point
2021-04-16T20:29:00 #kisslinux <midfavila> you'd have to give me something seriously incredible to convince me to give it up.
2021-04-16T20:29:36 #kisslinux <dilyn> i mean, velox is pretty incredible...
2021-04-16T20:29:47 #kisslinux <midfavila> >tiling
2021-04-16T20:29:48 #kisslinux <midfavila> yeah, no
2021-04-16T20:30:01 #kisslinux <dilyn> you can move the windows around tho
2021-04-16T20:30:05 #kisslinux <dilyn> so not necessarily tiling
2021-04-16T20:30:12 #kisslinux <midfavila> or I could just use FVWM.
2021-04-16T20:30:14 #kisslinux <dilyn> i imagine it wouldn't be too hard to patch it so the windows just pop up, not lock
2021-04-16T20:30:18 #kisslinux <dilyn> lol
2021-04-16T20:30:21 #kisslinux <dilyn> i mean sure
2021-04-16T20:34:21 #kisslinux <ominous_anonymou> then you could name it pop-n-lock
2021-04-16T20:34:26 #kisslinux <ominous_anonymou> genius
2021-04-16T20:35:23 #kisslinux <dilyn> if i were using velox i'd probably try to do it
2021-04-16T20:39:59 #kisslinux <spryc2> not sure i want to completely replace busybox, it provides lots of things i would need replacements for
2021-04-16T20:41:10 #kisslinux <dilyn> it's so much fun tho
2021-04-16T20:42:22 #kisslinux <spryc2> yeah
2021-04-16T20:42:25 #kisslinux <dilyn> `kiss l | wc -l` == 74 hot diggity
2021-04-16T20:42:29 #kisslinux <spryc2> not fun at 11pm tho
2021-04-16T20:42:31 #kisslinux <dilyn> try that on a xorg system
2021-04-16T20:42:37 #kisslinux <spryc2> daaamn
2021-04-16T20:42:40 #kisslinux <spryc2> 74??
2021-04-16T20:42:50 #kisslinux <dilyn> 2am after six beers is the only time to do core utility changes my mang
2021-04-16T20:43:00 #kisslinux <dilyn> it's how i got to be so fucking paranoid, and you can be too
2021-04-16T20:43:06 #kisslinux <spryc2> i feel bad about having 130 pkgs now..
2021-04-16T20:43:17 #kisslinux <dilyn> lol
2021-04-16T20:43:37 #kisslinux <spryc2> swc and velox seems very cool tho
2021-04-16T20:43:38 #kisslinux <dilyn> it's okay my laptop has over 200 rn
2021-04-16T20:43:46 #kisslinux <spryc2> but i would be missing out on things
2021-04-16T20:43:58 #kisslinux <spryc2> which can be replaced i guess
2021-04-16T20:44:20 #kisslinux <dilyn> velox is a great thing to use if you have minimal needs. if you're as heavily invested in a xorg setup as mid is, it's way harder to change
2021-04-16T20:44:29 #kisslinux <dilyn> i just needed vim to work, basically. so it was ez
2021-04-16T20:44:38 #kisslinux <spryc2> i dont think i am heavily invested
2021-04-16T20:44:45 #kisslinux <spryc2> i just use firefox and terminals
2021-04-16T20:45:02 #kisslinux <spryc2> i dont have any fancy scripts or anything that require some x utils
2021-04-16T20:45:12 #kisslinux <spryc2> i am working on that tho
2021-04-16T20:45:53 #kisslinux <dilyn> then you wouldn't have too harda time!
2021-04-16T20:46:03 #kisslinux <midfavila> i'm gonna be using X in 2030
2021-04-16T20:46:07 #kisslinux <spryc2> yeah im learning scripting and C still
2021-04-16T20:46:07 #kisslinux <midfavila> mark my words
2021-04-16T20:46:08 #kisslinux <dilyn> unless you don't like st. because afaik that's the only terminal that's been ported to work with swc
2021-04-16T20:46:15 #kisslinux <spryc2> i use st
2021-04-16T20:46:25 #kisslinux <dilyn> mid you should become the new xorg maintainer :P
2021-04-16T20:46:30 #kisslinux <midfavila> ah yes
2021-04-16T20:46:33 #kisslinux <dilyn> then you're already most of the way there spryc2!
2021-04-16T20:46:34 #kisslinux <midfavila> with my expert grasp on C
2021-04-16T20:46:38 #kisslinux <midfavila> and knowledge of unix history
2021-04-16T20:46:41 #kisslinux <midfavila> i am the natural fit
2021-04-16T20:46:42 #kisslinux <dilyn> better than half the people who contributed i imagine...
2021-04-16T20:46:55 #kisslinux <midfavila> lmao
2021-04-16T20:46:56 #kisslinux <spryc2> found out i already have a repo with swc and velox added
2021-04-16T20:47:04 #kisslinux <midfavila> a master of C in only 25 pages of K&R. I wish.
2021-04-16T20:47:17 #kisslinux <dilyn> a master of those 25 pages, i bet
2021-04-16T20:47:22 #kisslinux <midfavila> soon
2021-04-16T20:47:23 #kisslinux <midfavila> :tm:
2021-04-16T20:47:33 #kisslinux <midfavila> the syntax kept throwing me off for the first bit
2021-04-16T20:47:53 #kisslinux <dilyn> is it chad ansi or something else
2021-04-16T20:48:00 #kisslinux <midfavila> ansi
2021-04-16T20:48:05 #kisslinux <dilyn> this is the way
2021-04-16T20:48:20 #kisslinux <spryc2> wayland is poetteringware!
2021-04-16T20:48:25 #kisslinux <dilyn> :v
2021-04-16T20:48:26 #kisslinux <dilyn> nah
2021-04-16T20:48:29 #kisslinux <midfavila> i intend to be as autistic about my programs as I am about everything else
2021-04-16T20:48:44 #kisslinux <midfavila> prepare for the one-line X terminal.
2021-04-16T20:48:47 #kisslinux <spryc2> you almost tricked me into using poetteringware!
2021-04-16T20:48:51 #kisslinux <spryc2> very disappointed
2021-04-16T20:48:58 #kisslinux <letoram> poettering writes much better code than libwayland* so there's that ..
2021-04-16T20:49:00 #kisslinux <dilyn> foiled again
2021-04-16T20:49:45 #kisslinux <midfavila> can we package XLennart in KISS Games
2021-04-16T20:50:15 #kisslinux <dilyn> claudia02:
2021-04-16T20:51:25 #kisslinux <midfavila> https://cyber.dabamos.de/unix/x11/
2021-04-16T20:51:31 #kisslinux <midfavila> so many cute tools on this page
2021-04-16T20:51:47 #kisslinux <midfavila> xaw is aesthetic as fuck
2021-04-16T20:51:47 #kisslinux <spryc2> has anyone used sinit?
2021-04-16T20:52:31 #kisslinux <ominous_anonymou> @letoram do you use any of your stuff on top of kiss linux?
2021-04-16T20:53:15 #kisslinux <letoram> only as far as a vm tryout, my setup is.. lets say esoteric
2021-04-16T20:53:24 #kisslinux <midfavila> define esoteric
2021-04-16T20:53:30 #kisslinux <midfavila> learning about new system setups is interesting
2021-04-16T20:53:45 #kisslinux <spryc2> can someone explain the whole anti wayland things
2021-04-16T20:54:07 #kisslinux <letoram> right now there's 6 "desktop" machines in front of me, freebsd, openbsd, osx and 2x voidlinux
2021-04-16T20:54:17 #kisslinux <dilyn> okay this is cool mid https://github.com/interkosmos/micropolis
2021-04-16T20:54:22 #kisslinux <dilyn> you've sold me on the beauty of xorg
2021-04-16T20:54:42 #kisslinux <spryc2> and why some people despise poettering, i know 2 out of his 3 big projects aren't very good, but it sounds like wayland is
2021-04-16T20:54:43 #kisslinux <midfavila> exactly
2021-04-16T20:54:48 #kisslinux <dilyn> how many hands do you have, letoram?
2021-04-16T20:55:01 #kisslinux <midfavila> the problem with poeterring's projects is that they end up shoehorned into a bunch of stuff
2021-04-16T20:55:04 #kisslinux <letoram> the void ones are read-only live-image built for single-applications, e.g. firefox whatever
2021-04-16T20:55:08 #kisslinux <midfavila> and then end up becoming mandatory
2021-04-16T20:55:15 #kisslinux <midfavila> see: browsers only supporting pulse
2021-04-16T20:55:28 #kisslinux <ominous_anonymou> don't worry, pipewire is coming!
2021-04-16T20:55:30 #kisslinux <midfavila> also, systemd inhales tons of stuff
2021-04-16T20:55:35 #kisslinux <midfavila> >pipewire
2021-04-16T20:55:36 #kisslinux <ominous_anonymou> oh look its still dependent on d-bus
2021-04-16T20:55:38 #kisslinux <dilyn> pipewire is here!
2021-04-16T20:55:38 #kisslinux <midfavila> how about we just fucking fix alsa
2021-04-16T20:55:40 #kisslinux <midfavila> holy shit
2021-04-16T20:55:44 #kisslinux <dilyn> alsa werks
2021-04-16T20:56:05 #kisslinux <midfavila> in the time it took to write OSS, ESound, PulseAudio, and Pipewire, you'd think someone would have just improved ALSA
2021-04-16T20:56:08 #kisslinux <midfavila> or its documentation
2021-04-16T20:56:12 #kisslinux <spryc2> how would one use OSS4 instead of alsa?
2021-04-16T20:56:20 #kisslinux <midfavila> one wouldn't
2021-04-16T20:56:21 #kisslinux <letoram> then a cluster of various SBCs etc. that netboot into ramdisk, run single-instance chrome that remote-forward to my main desktop
2021-04-16T20:56:42 #kisslinux <midfavila> yeah that's definitely more esoteric than my system
2021-04-16T20:56:43 #kisslinux <midfavila> lmao
2021-04-16T20:56:50 #kisslinux <spryc2> bbbb-but alsa is harmful!
2021-04-16T20:56:59 #kisslinux <letoram> when I close whatever window is tied to whatever machine, it resets .. if it crashes before then, whatever dumps gers a gdb-attach and network forward again so I can inspect before killing
2021-04-16T20:57:27 #kisslinux <thermatix> heyho
2021-04-16T20:57:37 #kisslinux <midfavila> do I dare ask what this unholy concoction was created for, letoram
2021-04-16T20:58:20 #kisslinux <letoram> so smash and grabs gets very little useful data, whatever expensive chrome-sbx gets fired are caught, rendered useless and fail to get persistence
2021-04-16T20:59:13 #kisslinux <midfavila> fair enough, I guess
2021-04-16T20:59:18 #kisslinux <letoram> any "my state" is either open-source code or manually synched on usb and backuped over a data-diode
2021-04-16T20:59:32 #kisslinux <letoram> I do malware research etc. for a living so there's that..
2021-04-16T20:59:40 #kisslinux <midfavila> yeah, that makes a lot more sense, then.
2021-04-16T20:59:47 #kisslinux <dilyn> hidden from everything except the power company
2021-04-16T20:59:53 #kisslinux <midfavila> my setup is downright pedestrian in comparison. :v
2021-04-16T21:00:30 #kisslinux <midfavila> if I had the money it'd either be a PICMG or POWER system...
2021-04-16T21:01:21 #kisslinux <letoram> and the other different (free/osx/...) desktops etc. is to debug/troubleshoot the core arcan+networking code
2021-04-16T21:02:05 #kisslinux <letoram> being forced to account for the insanity that is osx 'posix' is mostly a healthy restriction
2021-04-16T21:03:04 #kisslinux <midfavila> have you ever checked out Solaris?
2021-04-16T21:03:25 #kisslinux <midfavila> or, well, Illumos.
2021-04-16T21:04:26 #kisslinux <letoram> I used solaris a lot in the 90ies, my main machine at the time was a sparcstation 10+
2021-04-16T21:05:48 #kisslinux <ominous_anonymou> I was able to build and run arcan/durden on a KISS Linux VM: https://0x0.st/-TUz.PNG , was having trouble getting Xarcan going though
2021-04-16T21:06:36 #kisslinux <letoram> in what way?
2021-04-16T21:06:50 #kisslinux <letoram> I'm poking inside Xarcan right now, doing something rather... unsavory
2021-04-16T21:07:30 #kisslinux <ominous_anonymou> couldn't get it to build, and then when i compared it to how KISS builds xorg-server its completely different so i kind of... stopped looking into it
2021-04-16T21:08:07 #kisslinux <letoram> arcan-wayland -exec-x11 (so xwayland) works better still though, haven't synched the changes that was made to dri3 since last I went there
2021-04-16T21:08:41 #kisslinux <letoram> kiss-xorg-server not using the meson build?
2021-04-16T21:09:17 #kisslinux <ominous_anonymou> https://github.com/kiss-community/repo-main/blob/master/xorg/xorg-server/build
2021-04-16T21:10:13 #kisslinux <midfavila> the old sparc machines seem really cool
2021-04-16T21:10:27 #kisslinux <ominous_anonymou> nope, which is what kind of threw me for a loop, i was having some trouble figuring out how to get them to "match" options-wise
2021-04-16T21:12:55 #kisslinux <letoram> Xarcan builds doesn't strip much away >yet<, now that Xorg is free-for-all I'll probably try to reduce it to the actual bare essentials - but the only things 'needed' is glamor/kdrive/xarcan
2021-04-16T21:14:27 #kisslinux <spryc2> cya
2021-04-16T21:14:47 #kisslinux <spryc2> tomorrow new day were i can destroy my system!
2021-04-16T21:14:55 #kisslinux <ominous_anonymou> i was having issues with glamor being correctly built/identified as a dependency in the kdrive meson_options
2021-04-16T21:15:00 #kisslinux <ominous_anonymou> bye spryc2!
2021-04-16T21:15:18 #kisslinux <letoram> not sure I'll deliver on it or even make it public, but am testing out using Xarcan to let a regular x11 WM manage both sides
2021-04-16T21:16:51 #kisslinux <midfavila> https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/2/22/HP-HP9000-C110-Workstation_10.jpg
2021-04-16T21:16:59 #kisslinux <midfavila> god, I love the aesthetic of these old machines
2021-04-16T21:17:17 #kisslinux <letoram> and nearly there, something left to figure out on how to create windows that an X11 WM thinks are 'authentic' even though the contents isn't accessible to the X server
2021-04-16T21:17:35 #kisslinux <letoram> turns out that it's much easier to write a WM inside Xorg rather than using xlib/xcb ..
2021-04-16T21:20:10 #kisslinux <ominous_anonymou> did you write a bit about that recently?
2021-04-16T21:20:37 #kisslinux <ominous_anonymou> i feel like i just read about how Xorg actually helps/encourages that whereas Wayland makes it ...not as easy
2021-04-16T21:22:31 #kisslinux <letoram> might have ranted about it in one of the release posts or so
2021-04-16T21:29:08 #kisslinux <letoram> but that's a different tangent - no wayland-object with methods that would provide WM like actions, that's a conflict in design philosophy
2021-04-16T21:29:45 #kisslinux <letoram> but for more context, the way Xwayland requires a wayland compositor to behave is ... interesting
2021-04-16T21:29:57 #kisslinux <ominous_anonymou> ah that's what I remember -- the design philosophy precludes some of the functionality from being easy or even existing at all
2021-04-16T21:30:49 #kisslinux <letoram> you basically need to write a full 'fake' window manager that sidesteps all of the wayland protocol and manually pairs Xwayland surfaces to wayland surfaces and treats them based on what the WM learns
2021-04-16T21:33:20 #kisslinux <letoram> it's super weird in the sense that the 'old' wayland had some kind of distinction of different WM policies encoded into the protocol (that was what a 'shell' object represented, you created surfaces through a factory (recall it's all asynch OO in C...) and then bound them to a shell)
2021-04-16T21:34:33 #kisslinux <letoram> so why didn't they create an x11-shell object definition instead of forcing compositors to side-step it all with a custom XWM? likely because the major culprits already had one
2021-04-16T21:35:14 #kisslinux <letoram> and that's what I was digging into now, like, it's not at all hard to do the translation inside of X(org, arcan, wayland) and actually gain the ability to re-use existing window managers..
2021-04-16T21:37:11 #kisslinux <ominous_anonymou> hard is relative :)
2021-04-16T21:37:49 #kisslinux <ominous_anonymou> but yeah your breakdown of it made a lot of sense (in the sense that it made the Wayland change /not/ make sense for them to have done)
2021-04-16T21:40:42 #kisslinux <ominous_anonymou> oh right now i remember my issue with xarcan. two things: first, i had to update the default_font_path in the base meson_options.txt to fit (not a big deal). The second was the inclusion of xdmcp -- is that a hard dependency?
2021-04-16T21:43:39 #kisslinux <ominous_anonymou> and secure-rpc. that's where i kind of got in the weeds of the difference between how kiss builds xorg-server and the meson approach
2021-04-16T21:49:29 #kisslinux <letoram> god no - xdmcp is a very dead remote desktop solution, secure rpc is also.. not to be used :p
2021-04-16T21:50:19 #kisslinux <ominous_anonymou> ok so it sounds like i can pare down the meson_options quite a bit
2021-04-16T21:57:51 #kisslinux <claudia02> o/
2021-04-16T21:58:31 #kisslinux <ominous_anonymou> hi!
2021-04-16T21:58:32 #kisslinux <claudia02> midfavila: I dont use KISS atm. But feel free to submit stuff to kiss-games
2021-04-16T22:00:36 #kisslinux <claudia02> https://cyber.dabamos.de/unix/x11/ has lots of...gems :p
2021-04-16T22:19:52 #kisslinux <acheam> woah lots of logs for me to read through
2021-04-16T22:20:01 #kisslinux <acheam> I already regret removing IRC from my phone
2021-04-16T22:21:20 #kisslinux <acheam> dilyn: What do you usually supplement toybox with? Is there any specific set of utils you usually reach for?
2021-04-16T22:23:26 #kisslinux <acheam> midfavila: wtf why does libreoffice need fortran
2021-04-16T22:24:20 #kisslinux <acheam> also, does it make sense for me to switch to libarchive instead of system(tar)
2021-04-16T22:24:38 #kisslinux <dilyn> i use toybox, uutils (for fun, mostly), nawk, openntpd, and libarchive
2021-04-16T22:25:16 #kisslinux <dilyn> having issues with toybox mdev that i'll have to fiddle with soon(tm) - it doesn't play nice with mdev.conf for some reason?
2021-04-16T22:25:28 #kisslinux <acheam> ominous_anonymou: what makes xenocara better than X.org?
2021-04-16T22:25:42 #kisslinux <acheam> dilyn: ah yeah I forgot you used uutils
2021-04-16T22:25:50 #kisslinux <acheam> thanks thats a good list for me to look at
2021-04-16T22:25:53 #kisslinux <dilyn> also i replaced pigz/xz bins etc. with zstd because i'm a facebook shill
2021-04-16T22:26:02 #kisslinux <midfavila> disgusting
2021-04-16T22:26:07 #kisslinux <acheam> whyyyyy
2021-04-16T22:26:14 #kisslinux <dilyn> for sure! toybox fdisk doesn't work with gpt disks tho so gl
2021-04-16T22:26:15 #kisslinux <acheam> midfavila: oh you were offline
2021-04-16T22:26:18 #kisslinux <midfavila> yes
2021-04-16T22:26:20 #kisslinux <acheam> I asked you some questions check the logs
2021-04-16T22:26:20 #kisslinux <midfavila> funny story
2021-04-16T22:26:22 #kisslinux <dilyn> i have yet to find a non gpl disk utility that actually handles gpt
2021-04-16T22:26:32 #kisslinux <acheam> switch to dos/bios
2021-04-16T22:26:33 #kisslinux <acheam> do it
2021-04-16T22:26:33 #kisslinux <midfavila> my chroot was corrupted so badly that on compiling some packages,
2021-04-16T22:26:39 #kisslinux <midfavila> i was able to consistently crash my system
2021-04-16T22:26:41 #kisslinux <dilyn> i can't, efi too comfy
2021-04-16T22:26:43 #kisslinux <acheam> how tf do you corrupt a chroot?
2021-04-16T22:26:49 #kisslinux <midfavila> presumably
2021-04-16T22:27:04 #kisslinux <midfavila> it is the result of me being an idiot and accidentally piping unsafe input into a shell
2021-04-16T22:27:07 #kisslinux <midfavila> specifically,
2021-04-16T22:27:12 #kisslinux <acheam> ah yeah that'd do it
2021-04-16T22:27:13 #kisslinux <midfavila> this input was from kiss a
2021-04-16T22:27:47 #kisslinux <dilyn> remember to sanitize your inputs kids
2021-04-16T22:27:50 #kisslinux <midfavila> i tried to salvage it by replacing the userspace with a known-good busybox, but it got to the point where kiss was invoking less
2021-04-16T22:27:52 #kisslinux <midfavila> and fuckin
2021-04-16T22:27:54 #kisslinux <midfavila> god
2021-04-16T22:27:57 #kisslinux <dilyn> s/midfavila/little johhny tables/
2021-04-16T22:27:58 #kisslinux <movzbl> <dilyn> remember to sanitize your inputs kids
2021-04-16T22:28:00 #kisslinux <midfavila> never again
2021-04-16T22:28:24 #kisslinux <midfavila> had to do a full power cycle too, bios refused to work properly
2021-04-16T22:28:44 #kisslinux <midfavila> i've never run into a situation like that, and I hope to never run into one again
2021-04-16T22:28:49 #kisslinux <midfavila> anyway, log time...
2021-04-16T22:29:41 #kisslinux <midfavila> acheam libreoffice needs fortran for the mathematics suite
2021-04-16T22:29:46 #kisslinux <acheam> ahh
2021-04-16T22:29:54 #kisslinux <acheam> presumably you can just compile parts of it?
2021-04-16T22:30:22 #kisslinux <acheam> personally I only ever need spreadheets and presentations
2021-04-16T22:30:40 #kisslinux <midfavila> well, I don't know anyone who would use libreoffice calc or whatever
2021-04-16T22:30:56 #kisslinux <midfavila> i figure mathematics students are all into matlab or something idk
2021-04-16T22:31:25 #kisslinux <midfavila> as for xenocara, it's just a modification of X by the oBSD people to run more securely by default and general openBSD-ness
2021-04-16T22:31:37 #kisslinux <dilyn> getting gfortran is mad ez tho
2021-04-16T22:31:38 #kisslinux <acheam> yeah I knew that much
2021-04-16T22:31:51 #kisslinux <midfavila> have you tried to compile it dilyn
2021-04-16T22:31:58 #kisslinux <midfavila> because it *still* OOMs my machine
2021-04-16T22:32:22 #kisslinux <dilyn> sed -i 's/c,c++/c,c++,fortran/ repo/core/gcc/build; kiss b gcc
2021-04-16T22:32:30 #kisslinux <midfavila> no, not on kiss
2021-04-16T22:32:31 #kisslinux <midfavila> god
2021-04-16T22:32:35 #kisslinux <dilyn> lel
2021-04-16T22:32:37 #kisslinux <midfavila> i would never port libreoffice to kiss anyway
2021-04-16T22:32:38 #kisslinux <dilyn> pacman -Syu gfortran
2021-04-16T22:32:43 #kisslinux <midfavila> this was on CRUX
2021-04-16T22:32:48 #kisslinux <midfavila> ...and also slackware
2021-04-16T22:32:50 #kisslinux <dilyn> well i've discovered the problem
2021-04-16T22:32:53 #kisslinux <midfavila> but mostly CRUX
2021-04-16T22:33:20 #kisslinux <midfavila> time to redo the past eight or so hours
2021-04-16T22:33:35 #kisslinux <midfavila> just KISS things
2021-04-16T22:33:46 #kisslinux <acheam> facts
2021-04-16T22:34:03 #kisslinux <midfavila> but look at my package count guise
2021-04-16T22:34:06 #kisslinux <dilyn> we built a system specifically so that we could fix the broken system we built to fix it
2021-04-16T22:34:08 #kisslinux <dilyn> it's genius
2021-04-16T22:34:11 #kisslinux <midfavila> it's only 200!!111!!11!!!!
2021-04-16T22:34:28 #kisslinux <dilyn> "I like KISS because it gives me total control"
2021-04-16T22:34:30 #kisslinux <dilyn> but unironically
2021-04-16T22:34:38 #kisslinux <midfavila> total control to completely nuke yourself
2021-04-16T22:34:42 #kisslinux <midfavila> :+1:
2021-04-16T22:34:56 #kisslinux <midfavila> the C of linux distros
2021-04-16T22:36:09 #kisslinux <dilyn> If I can fsck my disk why can't I fsck busybox
2021-04-16T22:36:12 #kisslinux <dilyn> thinkaboutit.jpg
2021-04-16T22:36:26 #kisslinux <midfavila> hmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm
2021-04-16T23:14:21 #kisslinux <midfavila> is anyone else getting checksum errors from the repo/extra/python package?
2021-04-16T23:15:24 #kisslinux <dilyn> naw
2021-04-16T23:15:45 #kisslinux <midfavila> :thonk:
2021-04-16T23:17:25 #kisslinux <acheam> me neither
2021-04-16T23:18:09 #kisslinux <midfavila> weird thing is that this is a fresh clone of the repos.
2021-04-16T23:23:22 #kisslinux <midfavila> as usual it comes down to clock skew.
2021-04-16T23:23:34 #kisslinux <midfavila> thank you, based RTC
2021-04-16T23:43:26 #kisslinux <dilyn> love me some network protocol daemon fuckery
2021-04-16T23:49:21 #kisslinux <ominous_anonymou> what's the usual process for porting to another architecture? i understand needing a cross-compiler toolchain, but from there...? like is there a specific package to start with in kiss core?
2021-04-16T23:52:53 #kisslinux <dilyn> https://dilyn-corner.github.io/blog/KISS-static#2.0
2021-04-16T23:52:59 #kisslinux <dilyn> you could loosely follow this build order
2021-04-16T23:53:21 #kisslinux <dilyn> but basically you just want to make the fundamental parts of core first
2021-04-16T23:53:51 #kisslinux <dilyn> http://www.trac.cross-lfs.org/ this would also be an excellent guide
2021-04-16T23:54:26 #kisslinux <dilyn> well now wait that's the wrong link clipboard smh
2021-04-16T23:54:53 #kisslinux <dilyn> https://trac.clfs.org/
2021-04-16T23:56:34 #kisslinux <ominous_anonymou> and then once the core stuff is built, i can create a new kiss-chroot-xxx targeting that arch?
2021-04-16T23:57:09 #kisslinux <dilyn> you have to basically do three passes, the third pass will be your new arch-rootfs
2021-04-16T23:57:53 #kisslinux <ominous_anonymou> as detailed in your static build notes
2021-04-16T23:58:04 #kisslinux <ominous_anonymou> ok thank you, plenty to read :)
2021-04-16T23:58:13 #kisslinux <dilyn> my blog post is a rough-and-ready rudimentary way to build a cross-toolchain but you can use something like https://crosstool-ng.github.io/ probably to automate the actual toolchain construction
2021-04-16T23:58:18 #kisslinux <dilyn> yah! glhf, it isn't easy lmao
2021-04-16T23:58:51 #kisslinux <ominous_anonymou> well musl-cross-make worked ok so i have the toolchain built (theoretically, haven't tested it yet)
2021-04-16T23:59:26 #kisslinux <dilyn> musl-cross-make may or may not be working well enough, I haven't heard anything on the ML lately about whether it got 'fixed'
2021-04-16T23:59:55 #kisslinux <dilyn> E5ten: might know?