💾 Archived View for gemini.ctrl-c.club › ~phoebos › logs › freenode-kisslinux-2021-02-03.txt captured on 2024-06-16 at 13:45:04.
⬅️ Previous capture (2021-12-17)
-=-=-=-=-=-=-
2021-02-03T00:00:32 #kisslinux <sad_plan> wait, there is actually 1546 packages in the repo-community
2021-02-03T00:00:46 #kisslinux <midfavila> . _.
2021-02-03T00:00:47 #kisslinux <aarng> are there that many low quality packages or is that more about things being out of date?
2021-02-03T00:00:48 #kisslinux <midfavila> jesus
2021-02-03T00:00:56 #kisslinux <sad_plan> I stand corrected. in any case, ~1500 isnt that bad imo
2021-02-03T00:04:09 #kisslinux <sad_plan> I belive theres mostly unupdated ones, but I have obviously not checked even half of them.
2021-02-03T00:06:44 #kisslinux <aarng> aye
2021-02-03T00:08:28 #kisslinux <aarng> fuck, youtubes mobile site is now broken in w3m
2021-02-03T00:08:42 #kisslinux <midfavila> ...it worked before???
2021-02-03T00:08:53 #kisslinux <aarng> yes
2021-02-03T00:08:57 #kisslinux <midfavila> wack
2021-02-03T00:08:58 #kisslinux <aarng> and it was pretty readable too
2021-02-03T00:09:03 #kisslinux <sad_plan> if there is any interest of actually going through the repo, it shsouldnt take too long for like 5 guys, or hell, even 10 guys, thats 300/150~ packages per person. shoudnt even take too long
2021-02-03T00:09:04 #kisslinux <midfavila> just use an invidious instance
2021-02-03T00:09:12 #kisslinux <sad_plan> why are you even using yt, instead of invidious?
2021-02-03T00:09:34 #kisslinux <sad_plan> hell, even newpipe if youre on android
2021-02-03T00:10:03 #kisslinux <aarng> I'll have to look into it
2021-02-03T00:10:28 #kisslinux <midfavila> i have a script on my laptop that automatically downloads and plays videos for me using youtube-dl
2021-02-03T00:10:31 #kisslinux <aarng> I could also use one of those terminal programs for searching youtube I guess
2021-02-03T00:10:31 #kisslinux <midfavila> it's reasonably comfy
2021-02-03T00:11:10 #kisslinux <sad_plan> look into fdroid aswell, if youre interested in using foss apps on your phone aswell. if you wanna use newpipe, be sure to add newpipes repo, so you get their updates as they push it, not have to wait a week or so for fdroid to build and push it.
2021-02-03T00:11:14 #kisslinux <aarng> I just let mpv handle the downloading (via youtube-dl)
2021-02-03T00:11:24 #kisslinux <midfavila> i don't use mpv on my laptop tbh.
2021-02-03T00:11:29 #kisslinux <midfavila> i've been using ffplay a lot
2021-02-03T00:11:59 #kisslinux <sad_plan> ^i was just going to say that. use invidious to search, and copy the link to mpv. or use just a tui tool like tuitube (if that package even worked....)
2021-02-03T00:12:14 #kisslinux <midfavila> my solution is to just pipe things
2021-02-03T00:12:19 #kisslinux <midfavila> so like, I have one script, plumber
2021-02-03T00:12:25 #kisslinux <midfavila> and plumber handles piping info to other scripts
2021-02-03T00:12:34 #kisslinux <midfavila> which then use case statements to handle a wider variety of data
2021-02-03T00:12:40 #kisslinux <sad_plan> you dont even need to pipe it. just hit mpv <link>
2021-02-03T00:12:53 #kisslinux <aarng> yeah, I have my own plumber too
2021-02-03T00:12:54 #kisslinux <midfavila> my way involves not needing a terminal and it works from all programs :p
2021-02-03T00:13:05 #kisslinux <aarng> cool thing with w3m, you can add "external browsers"
2021-02-03T00:13:06 #kisslinux <midfavila> i've been meaning to write a plumbing utility for ages
2021-02-03T00:13:07 #kisslinux <sad_plan> well thats even better
2021-02-03T00:13:18 #kisslinux <aarng> which can be simple scripts too, you can add your plumber
2021-02-03T00:13:25 #kisslinux <midfavila> yeah, lynx and links can also do that
2021-02-03T00:13:35 #kisslinux <midfavila> I normally use a patched version of links with suckless tabbed
2021-02-03T00:13:46 #kisslinux <sad_plan> I never figured out how to copy links from lynx, though Ive never tried too hard
2021-02-03T00:13:53 #kisslinux <midfavila> it's, uh
2021-02-03T00:14:01 #kisslinux <midfavila> definitely something you need a manpage for
2021-02-03T00:14:02 #kisslinux <aarng> I can't stand links
2021-02-03T00:14:07 #kisslinux <midfavila> links is pretty meh I agree
2021-02-03T00:14:11 #kisslinux <aarng> with those shitty menues
2021-02-03T00:14:18 #kisslinux <midfavila> but it's the lightest weight """graphical""" browser
2021-02-03T00:14:47 #kisslinux <midfavila> one thing that pisses me off is that it can convert anchors to images to links
2021-02-03T00:14:51 #kisslinux <aarng> I thought only links2 had the graphical part
2021-02-03T00:14:51 #kisslinux <midfavila> for viewing and stuff
2021-02-03T00:14:57 #kisslinux <midfavila> but it doesn't handle videos
2021-02-03T00:15:01 #kisslinux <midfavila> and yeah, links2
2021-02-03T00:15:02 #kisslinux <midfavila> but like
2021-02-03T00:15:06 #kisslinux <midfavila> does anyone use OG links?
2021-02-03T00:15:13 #kisslinux <midfavila> i thought everyone just called links2 links.
2021-02-03T00:15:16 #kisslinux <aarng> good point :)
2021-02-03T00:15:28 #kisslinux <midfavila> tbh I wish Lynx had a graphical port
2021-02-03T00:15:42 #kisslinux <midfavila> of the text browsers Lynx has the best rendering capabilities, imho
2021-02-03T00:16:17 #kisslinux <midfavila> man, I kinda want to order food tonight instead of cooking...
2021-02-03T00:16:50 #kisslinux <sad_plan> afraid youre gonna burn that bacon again, mid?
2021-02-03T00:16:50 #kisslinux <aarng> there are no *really* good terminal browsers unfortunately
2021-02-03T00:16:57 #kisslinux <aarng> they all suck in their own way kinda
2021-02-03T00:16:57 #kisslinux <midfavila> pft no
2021-02-03T00:17:03 #kisslinux <midfavila> i just don't wanna cook
2021-02-03T00:17:05 #kisslinux <aarng> actually, havent tried edbrowse yet
2021-02-03T00:17:08 #kisslinux <sad_plan> lol
2021-02-03T00:17:14 #kisslinux <midfavila> edbrowse was one I wanted to try
2021-02-03T00:17:29 #kisslinux <midfavila> honestly it's really hard to make a browser that isn't completely shit
2021-02-03T00:17:39 #kisslinux <midfavila> because in order to fully implement the standards, it requires that you become shit
2021-02-03T00:17:46 #kisslinux <midfavila> but if you don't implement all of the standards, you're still shit
2021-02-03T00:17:51 #kisslinux <aarng> yeah
2021-02-03T00:17:53 #kisslinux <midfavila> everything is shit no matter what you do
2021-02-03T00:17:58 #kisslinux <sad_plan> kinda ironic
2021-02-03T00:17:59 #kisslinux <midfavila> which indicates a problem with the standards
2021-02-03T00:18:03 #kisslinux <midfavila> not the programs
2021-02-03T00:18:04 #kisslinux <aarng> the rendering can suck
2021-02-03T00:18:14 #kisslinux <aarng> but at least get the rest right
2021-02-03T00:18:40 #kisslinux <midfavila> honestly, if you intend to use a text mode browser interactively, use lynx
2021-02-03T00:18:51 #kisslinux <midfavila> links is only useful because of its graphical capabilities
2021-02-03T00:18:54 #kisslinux <midfavila> and w3m is...
2021-02-03T00:18:58 #kisslinux <midfavila> i mean, it exists
2021-02-03T00:19:01 #kisslinux <aarng> I tried it again not too long ago, didn't really like it
2021-02-03T00:19:13 #kisslinux <aarng> but I can have another look I guess
2021-02-03T00:19:15 #kisslinux <midfavila> every browser available has some sort of achilles heel
2021-02-03T00:19:41 #kisslinux <aarng> yep
2021-02-03T00:20:06 #kisslinux <midfavila> netsurf and dillo? no JS, which breaks basically everything. firefox/chrome? nothing needs to be said. UXP browsers? mostly slow but otherwise not bad. text browsers? they're... well, text based
2021-02-03T00:20:46 #kisslinux <midfavila> man the one time I want to eat something reasonably healthy and the only way they deliver is with those stupid gig economy companies
2021-02-03T00:20:52 #kisslinux <midfavila> might just have to cook after all
2021-02-03T00:22:54 #kisslinux <sad_plan> just cook some nuddles, isnt that what you students live off of? :p
2021-02-03T00:23:06 #kisslinux <midfavila> you'd think so
2021-02-03T00:23:14 #kisslinux <midfavila> but I'm more of a pizza guy
2021-02-03T00:23:18 #kisslinux <midfavila> maybe I should just order that
2021-02-03T00:23:20 #kisslinux <sad_plan> according to movies and teh interwebs that is :p
2021-02-03T00:23:28 #kisslinux <aarng> make noodles aglio e olio, best effort to taste ratio
2021-02-03T00:23:34 #kisslinux <midfavila> i don't normally eat a ton of carbs
2021-02-03T00:23:35 #kisslinux <sad_plan> pizza sounds fine, I vote for pizza for you
2021-02-03T00:23:37 #kisslinux <midfavila> especially pasta
2021-02-03T00:23:44 #kisslinux <midfavila> okay what should I get on the pizza
2021-02-03T00:23:53 #kisslinux <midfavila> normally I get a deep-dish steak and cheese with mushroom
2021-02-03T00:24:04 #kisslinux <sad_plan> i dunno, do you have a preference?
2021-02-03T00:24:10 #kisslinux <sad_plan> sounds nice. is the beef marinated?
2021-02-03T00:24:49 #kisslinux <sad_plan> where I live, theres a shop which sells pizzas with marinated beef, chicken on their pizza, and its a killer tbh
2021-02-03T00:24:58 #kisslinux <dilyn> i'm fry some potatoes with some spicey spices and make a nice little aeoli to go with it
2021-02-03T00:25:00 #kisslinux <dilyn> omnomnom
2021-02-03T00:25:00 #kisslinux <midfavila> there aren't really any local pizza chains
2021-02-03T00:25:09 #kisslinux <midfavila> normally I just order from dominos
2021-02-03T00:25:20 #kisslinux <midfavila> i don't think they marinate their food, pfft
2021-02-03T00:25:39 #kisslinux <sad_plan> no I dont belive dominos does that either :p
2021-02-03T00:25:47 #kisslinux <midfavila> they make some funny ads though
2021-02-03T00:25:48 #kisslinux <sad_plan> cheap bastards
2021-02-03T00:25:54 #kisslinux * sad_plan raises fist
2021-02-03T00:26:12 #kisslinux <sad_plan> s/raises/shakes
2021-02-03T00:26:13 #kisslinux <kissbot> * sad_plan shakes fist
2021-02-03T00:26:34 #kisslinux <sad_plan> ive never seen their ads tbh
2021-02-03T00:26:45 #kisslinux <sad_plan> they dont post their ads where I live
2021-02-03T00:26:59 #kisslinux <midfavila> they did a hatsune miku themed ad campaign in japan
2021-02-03T00:27:12 #kisslinux <midfavila> and their twitter in like indonesia or something posted jojo memes
2021-02-03T00:27:25 #kisslinux <midfavila> mostly I just order their pizza because it's cheap and pretty tasty
2021-02-03T00:27:48 #kisslinux <dilyn> somebody's trying to hack into my mojang account
2021-02-03T00:27:54 #kisslinux <dilyn> man they are cravin' minecraft huh
2021-02-03T00:28:01 #kisslinux <midfavila> brown bricks
2021-02-03T00:30:10 #kisslinux <dilyn> has anybody here tried out clover as their bootloader?
2021-02-03T00:30:12 #kisslinux <dilyn> looks interesting
2021-02-03T00:32:22 #kisslinux <sad_plan> no, always just used grub. though Im sortof inclined to try the one that just boots of the kernel. cant recall its name atm..
2021-02-03T00:32:28 #kisslinux <midfavila> lilo
2021-02-03T00:32:38 #kisslinux <dilyn> efistub
2021-02-03T00:32:41 #kisslinux <sad_plan> isnt lilo outdated long time ago?
2021-02-03T00:32:41 #kisslinux <midfavila> you can also use efi- yeah
2021-02-03T00:32:44 #kisslinux <midfavila> and i mean
2021-02-03T00:32:44 #kisslinux <sad_plan> yea efistub was its name
2021-02-03T00:32:51 #kisslinux <midfavila> "outdated' is kind of a strong word
2021-02-03T00:33:05 #kisslinux <sad_plan> what word would you prefered?
2021-02-03T00:33:09 #kisslinux <dilyn> unmaintained
2021-02-03T00:33:10 #kisslinux <midfavila> old? :p
2021-02-03T00:33:16 #kisslinux <dilyn> ancient
2021-02-03T00:33:19 #kisslinux <midfavila> lilo is feature-complete and stable
2021-02-03T00:33:20 #kisslinux <dilyn> unused
2021-02-03T00:33:23 #kisslinux <midfavila> 's very serviceable
2021-02-03T00:33:25 #kisslinux <dilyn> is it?
2021-02-03T00:33:27 #kisslinux <midfavila> yeah
2021-02-03T00:33:34 #kisslinux <midfavila> i've never had any issues with lilo
2021-02-03T00:33:36 #kisslinux <dilyn> has UEFI been stabilized?
2021-02-03T00:33:43 #kisslinux <midfavila> use ELILO on UEFI systems
2021-02-03T00:33:51 #kisslinux <midfavila> LILO only handles BIOS
2021-02-03T00:34:02 #kisslinux <midfavila> i don't bother with UEFI though
2021-02-03T00:34:06 #kisslinux <aarng> you really don't need a bootloader
2021-02-03T00:34:10 #kisslinux <dilyn> right but that's what i'm asking
2021-02-03T00:34:13 #kisslinux <sad_plan> you only have bios on you pcs?
2021-02-03T00:34:20 #kisslinux <midfavila> i have UEFI, I just don't use it
2021-02-03T00:34:20 #kisslinux <dilyn> is ELILO actually adequate for modern systems if its been abandoned
2021-02-03T00:34:21 #kisslinux <aarng> uefi only
2021-02-03T00:34:27 #kisslinux <midfavila> yes
2021-02-03T00:34:43 #kisslinux <sad_plan> aarng, are you just using efistub instead?
2021-02-03T00:34:46 #kisslinux <midfavila> although recently I've been using extlinux
2021-02-03T00:34:48 #kisslinux <aarng> if you name the kernel a certain way, you don't even need to add a boot entry to your efi
2021-02-03T00:34:54 #kisslinux <aarng> yeah, I am
2021-02-03T00:35:03 #kisslinux <sad_plan> cool, is it easy to set up?
2021-02-03T00:35:13 #kisslinux <midfavila> lilo just has a config file under /etc where you dump your kernel and any options that you might want
2021-02-03T00:35:17 #kisslinux <midfavila> and it Just Werks:tm:
2021-02-03T00:35:18 #kisslinux <aarng> I'd say it is, yeah
2021-02-03T00:35:37 #kisslinux <sad_plan> nice
2021-02-03T00:35:37 #kisslinux <aarng> given your kernel is setup properly that is
2021-02-03T00:35:38 #kisslinux <dilyn> do you use efibootmgr at all? or just dump it all at kernel compile time?
2021-02-03T00:35:58 #kisslinux <aarng> I'm using efibootmgr
2021-02-03T00:36:08 #kisslinux <sad_plan> I simply removed efibootmgr from my laptop, no issues at all
2021-02-03T00:36:21 #kisslinux <dilyn> amazing
2021-02-03T00:36:22 #kisslinux <aarng> but you don't have to if you bake the kernel commandline into the kernel
2021-02-03T00:36:22 #kisslinux <sad_plan> still boots fine with grub, and I have uefi
2021-02-03T00:36:37 #kisslinux <midfavila> GRUB is such a headache
2021-02-03T00:36:45 #kisslinux <dilyn> delete grub see what happens xD
2021-02-03T00:36:49 #kisslinux <sad_plan> why? Ive had no issues with grub at all
2021-02-03T00:36:51 #kisslinux <sad_plan> lol yeah
2021-02-03T00:36:58 #kisslinux <aarng> I think uefi usually expects like BOOTX64.bin or something to be present on the efi system partition
2021-02-03T00:37:01 #kisslinux <aarng> and boots that
2021-02-03T00:37:10 #kisslinux <aarng> so you just have to rename your vmlinuz
2021-02-03T00:37:26 #kisslinux <sad_plan> right. i seem to recall those names from arch wiki or something
2021-02-03T00:37:33 #kisslinux <midfavila> it always either fails to load itself properly and then I have to manually set and load the kernel, or fails to install, or doesn't manage overwriting the disk boot sector properly, etc
2021-02-03T00:37:38 #kisslinux <sad_plan> clever, as you dont need to rename those pesky kernels after upgrading
2021-02-03T00:37:45 #kisslinux <midfavila> and yeah you have to name your kernel vmlinuz-foo
2021-02-03T00:38:27 #kisslinux <sad_plan> yup. dont need to do that with efistub though
2021-02-03T00:38:43 #kisslinux <midfavila> or with lilo. or extlinux. or like, any other bootloader. at least afaik
2021-02-03T00:39:46 #kisslinux <sad_plan> the more you know
2021-02-03T00:40:00 #kisslinux <aarng> trying out openbsd at the moment and good have I been spoiled with kiss boot times
2021-02-03T00:40:09 #kisslinux <midfavila> okay, gonna order deep-dish, with extra sausage and mushroom, some sausage, provalone and feta cheese, and garlic ranch instead of tomato sauce
2021-02-03T00:40:11 #kisslinux <midfavila> normal combinations
2021-02-03T00:40:24 #kisslinux <midfavila> and yeah non-source distros take ages to boot compared to source ones
2021-02-03T00:40:28 #kisslinux <sad_plan> no shit. kiss boots in 1-2 sec, and artix takes foreeeeeevvveeeeer
2021-02-03T00:40:31 #kisslinux <midfavila> inb4 just use osystemd
2021-02-03T00:40:37 #kisslinux <midfavila> s/oystemd/soystemd/
2021-02-03T00:40:43 #kisslinux <sad_plan> fuck sysD
2021-02-03T00:40:45 #kisslinux <aarng> :D
2021-02-03T00:40:55 #kisslinux <dilyn> it needs a .efi extension otherwise EFI will refuse to execute it
2021-02-03T00:41:06 #kisslinux <dilyn> but it only *needs* that extension on UEFI systems if you *aren't* using a bootloader
2021-02-03T00:41:08 #kisslinux <midfavila> i like how everyone complains that serialized bootups are so slow meanwhile fedora or ubuntu or something takes at least a minute to boot
2021-02-03T00:41:28 #kisslinux <aarng> I was still a big newbie when the big adoption to systemd happened, but I was on arch at the time
2021-02-03T00:41:36 #kisslinux <aarng> and the update needed manual intervention
2021-02-03T00:41:46 #kisslinux <dilyn> same
2021-02-03T00:41:48 #kisslinux <aarng> broke my system so I rage quitted arch
2021-02-03T00:41:48 #kisslinux <sad_plan> a minute is still to slow. they cant beat 2 seconds, so they instantly loose
2021-02-03T00:41:50 #kisslinux <midfavila> i just use crux whenever I want an arch experience
2021-02-03T00:41:53 #kisslinux <dilyn> i just bought a mac kappa
2021-02-03T00:42:27 #kisslinux <midfavila> slackware for stable systems, crux for arch-like systems, kiss for gentoo-like systems
2021-02-03T00:43:06 #kisslinux <sad_plan> but crux is sourcebased, how is it arch-like?
2021-02-03T00:43:22 #kisslinux <midfavila> i mean, arch was derived from crux afaik. so it's more like arch is crux-like
2021-02-03T00:43:25 #kisslinux <midfavila> but ignoring that nitpick
2021-02-03T00:43:38 #kisslinux <aarng> > it needs a .efi extension
2021-02-03T00:43:43 #kisslinux <midfavila> they both have relatively minimal installs and use similar repository structures
2021-02-03T00:43:44 #kisslinux <aarng> right, it was efi not bin
2021-02-03T00:43:55 #kisslinux <midfavila> and just overall feel relatively similar
2021-02-03T00:44:04 #kisslinux <midfavila> like if arch was stable instead of rolling and had a dash of BSD
2021-02-03T00:44:20 #kisslinux <sad_plan> I see
2021-02-03T00:45:22 #kisslinux <dilyn> what I really want is a way to manipulate the efivariables on my system without appealing to efivars/efibootmgr
2021-02-03T00:45:24 #kisslinux <dilyn> because gpl :v
2021-02-03T00:45:34 #kisslinux <midfavila> GPL>BSD
2021-02-03T00:45:35 #kisslinux <midfavila> fight me nerd
2021-02-03T00:45:44 #kisslinux <dilyn> f
2021-02-03T00:45:59 #kisslinux <dilyn> I have 40 gpl packages in my repo and I need them gone >=|
2021-02-03T00:46:01 #kisslinux <midfavila> MIT is also good =w=
2021-02-03T00:46:21 #kisslinux <midfavila> honestly I think a lot of the squabbling over permissive versus non-permissive is a bit silly
2021-02-03T00:46:50 #kisslinux <dilyn> squabble squabble
2021-02-03T00:46:54 #kisslinux <midfavila> rabble rabble
2021-02-03T00:47:08 #kisslinux <midfavila> at least it's not as pedantic as big versus little endian
2021-02-03T00:47:10 #kisslinux <dilyn> roger doger
2021-02-03T00:48:20 #kisslinux <midfavila> i hate how I have to give all my contact info to this pizza company. why do you need my email *and* phone number to dump a pizza at my door?
2021-02-03T00:48:28 #kisslinux <midfavila> smh
2021-02-03T00:51:32 #kisslinux <dilyn> fake emails to the rescue
2021-02-03T00:52:48 #kisslinux <sad_plan> to give you ads, and sell your info. duh
2021-02-03T00:52:54 #kisslinux <midfavila> well yeah
2021-02-03T00:53:01 #kisslinux <sad_plan> but yeah, fake emails to the rescue.
2021-02-03T00:53:24 #kisslinux <midfavila> i wish my telecomms company provided landlines
2021-02-03T00:53:25 #kisslinux <sad_plan> if you use voip aswell, you can just give them not-your-number instead
2021-02-03T00:53:39 #kisslinux <midfavila> i refuse to use the VoIP service from my ISP
2021-02-03T00:53:46 #kisslinux <sad_plan> why?
2021-02-03T00:53:52 #kisslinux <sad_plan> is your isp shite?
2021-02-03T00:53:52 #kisslinux <midfavila> they charge 50$ a month plus rental for the phone, plus long distance charges
2021-02-03T00:54:00 #kisslinux <aarng> ok, found the easiest solution for my youtube problem
2021-02-03T00:54:02 #kisslinux <midfavila> my cellphone bill, meanwhile, is fifteen
2021-02-03T00:54:11 #kisslinux <midfavila> for data which can be used for calls and texts
2021-02-03T00:54:13 #kisslinux <aarng> I can just duckduckgo "site:youtube.com <searchterm>"
2021-02-03T00:54:26 #kisslinux <sad_plan> I meant why you refuse to use voip
2021-02-03T00:54:35 #kisslinux <midfavila> because it's overpriced and shitty
2021-02-03T00:55:13 #kisslinux <midfavila> SDF isn't even a telecomms company and they have better rates for VoIP anyways
2021-02-03T00:55:30 #kisslinux <midfavila> like 25$ a quarter for unlimited international calls into the PSTN
2021-02-03T00:55:54 #kisslinux <midfavila> if I could pay using monero or something I would just go through them
2021-02-03T00:56:39 #kisslinux <sad_plan> https://voip.ms/en/rates/canada are they still overprized?
2021-02-03T00:57:06 #kisslinux <sad_plan> voip.ms is supposedly good. has seen it been recommended ar r/privacy and ptio some times
2021-02-03T00:57:19 #kisslinux <midfavila> normally I don't even call.
2021-02-03T00:57:33 #kisslinux <midfavila> i only have cell service because my school keeps bitching at me for cutting class
2021-02-03T00:57:34 #kisslinux <sad_plan> thats obviously the cheapest option :p
2021-02-03T00:57:49 #kisslinux <sad_plan> why are you even skipping classes?
2021-02-03T00:57:55 #kisslinux <midfavila> because it's boring and useless
2021-02-03T00:58:12 #kisslinux <midfavila> in the past four months of classes about five minutes of it has been new and useful information
2021-02-03T00:58:14 #kisslinux <sad_plan> choose something less boring and moreusefull?
2021-02-03T00:58:21 #kisslinux <midfavila> that would be great if I had a choice
2021-02-03T00:58:30 #kisslinux <sad_plan> why dont you?
2021-02-03T00:59:06 #kisslinux <midfavila> because I've been shoehorned into systems admin and security by a government scholarship. don't get me wrong, i'm honored to be chosen for the program or whatever
2021-02-03T00:59:08 #kisslinux <midfavila> but like
2021-02-03T00:59:15 #kisslinux <midfavila> the kind of shit they're teaching is...
2021-02-03T00:59:21 #kisslinux <midfavila> "what is a keyboard?"
2021-02-03T00:59:26 #kisslinux <midfavila> "what is a hard drive?"
2021-02-03T00:59:30 #kisslinux <midfavila> "what is an IP?" etc
2021-02-03T00:59:39 #kisslinux <midfavila> so i've been cutting class to watch old MIT tapes
2021-02-03T00:59:40 #kisslinux <sad_plan> for real?
2021-02-03T00:59:42 #kisslinux <midfavila> for real
2021-02-03T00:59:53 #kisslinux <midfavila> the first three months consisted of "how to type" and "how to send email"
2021-02-03T00:59:59 #kisslinux <midfavila> as well as "how to type documents"
2021-02-03T01:00:12 #kisslinux <midfavila> keep in mind, where I live, tech literacy courses are a mandatory element of high school
2021-02-03T01:00:12 #kisslinux <sad_plan> damn. yeah you have my sympathy for skipping classes
2021-02-03T01:00:31 #kisslinux <midfavila> so anyone going into college who's under thirty already knows this basic shit
2021-02-03T01:00:47 #kisslinux <midfavila> also
2021-02-03T01:00:51 #kisslinux <midfavila> for a systems admin and security course
2021-02-03T01:01:01 #kisslinux <midfavila> they only dedicate two weeks out of two years to *NIX
2021-02-03T01:01:22 #kisslinux <midfavila> which is like, almost insulting
2021-02-03T01:01:23 #kisslinux <sad_plan> and yet, they teach you how to send an email, at a place where youre supposed to be tought how to be a sysadmin/security? what the actual fuck, one wouldve thought the classes were a bit more advanes than that
2021-02-03T01:01:44 #kisslinux <midfavila> i've been kicking myself for not taking the scholarship and doing self-study
2021-02-03T01:01:55 #kisslinux <midfavila> instead of taking it and going to college
2021-02-03T01:02:10 #kisslinux <midfavila> but i was given five days to choose and everyone was like "nah mid you need to go to college it's important"
2021-02-03T01:02:20 #kisslinux <midfavila> "it won't be like high school"
2021-02-03T01:02:34 #kisslinux <midfavila> at least they were right about it not being the same. it's fucking worse
2021-02-03T01:02:36 #kisslinux <midfavila> . -.
2021-02-03T01:02:56 #kisslinux <sad_plan> if that works for you, I dont see why not. I kinda wanna go back to school, and go to highschool, to take some courses o programming, but I KNOOW, for a fact that theyll gonna teach me a bunch of useless stuff I dont initially wanna learn...
2021-02-03T01:03:26 #kisslinux <midfavila> in my high school security class we were studying encryption and how different viruses impacted systems and how to secure against them, etc
2021-02-03T01:03:43 #kisslinux <sad_plan> that would be an interesting subject though
2021-02-03T01:03:45 #kisslinux <midfavila> i even got to participate as a rep for my region in a competition sponsored by the USAF
2021-02-03T01:03:48 #kisslinux <midfavila> that was fun
2021-02-03T01:04:00 #kisslinux <sad_plan> cool
2021-02-03T01:04:18 #kisslinux <midfavila> yeah. nearly got to the semi-finals
2021-02-03T01:04:25 #kisslinux <sad_plan> nearly?
2021-02-03T01:04:34 #kisslinux <sad_plan> oh to the. nevermind
2021-02-03T01:04:48 #kisslinux <midfavila> well, a lot of the competitors were using scripts
2021-02-03T01:04:57 #kisslinux <midfavila> and this was at a time where I didn't know how to script proficiently
2021-02-03T01:05:15 #kisslinux <midfavila> so I ended up clocking in slower than they did at completing the objectives
2021-02-03T01:05:18 #kisslinux <sad_plan> ah
2021-02-03T01:06:01 #kisslinux * midfavila shrugs
2021-02-03T01:06:07 #kisslinux <midfavila> it got me out of class for a week
2021-02-03T01:06:13 #kisslinux <sad_plan> ever tried those ctf stuff? ive seeen them on some channels before, and its somewhat interesting. whole reverseengineering and stuff
2021-02-03T01:06:16 #kisslinux <sad_plan> thats nice though
2021-02-03T01:06:22 #kisslinux <midfavila> yeah I've done CTF and reverse engineering
2021-02-03T01:06:23 #kisslinux <midfavila> it was neat
2021-02-03T01:06:34 #kisslinux <sad_plan> cool
2021-02-03T01:06:36 #kisslinux <midfavila> a friend of mine from AUS taught me a bit of x86 and how to use a debugger
2021-02-03T01:06:45 #kisslinux <sad_plan> nice
2021-02-03T01:06:51 #kisslinux <midfavila> so sometimes when I'm bored I'll find old software and fuck around with it
2021-02-03T01:07:26 #kisslinux <midfavila> i think there's a certain irony in knowing some assembler and some script, but being too terrified of failure to learn a "real" programming language
2021-02-03T01:07:56 #kisslinux <sad_plan> I wanna learn that stuff to, but Im getting to a stage where I belive I have to pick some stuff to be proficient at. seeing as programming/linux takes alot of time, and so does other stuff I wanna do..
2021-02-03T01:08:06 #kisslinux <sad_plan> why are you affraid of learning a *real* language?
2021-02-03T01:08:31 #kisslinux <midfavila> I can't answer that because I don't have a reason :P
2021-02-03T01:08:36 #kisslinux <midfavila> it's a phobia
2021-02-03T01:08:43 #kisslinux <midfavila> super weird and stupid, I know
2021-02-03T01:09:24 #kisslinux <midfavila> but like, every time I fuck up a program, I freak out because "oh my god that was such an obvious mistake and you couldn't even write that properly" and then I freak out because I freaked out, and then it spirals from there
2021-02-03T01:09:25 #kisslinux <sad_plan> I dont get phobias tbh. possibly because I dont have any of my own. its sortof irational to me. not that I look down on those who do though
2021-02-03T01:09:39 #kisslinux <midfavila> well yeah, phobias are irrational. that's what a phobia is :P
2021-02-03T01:10:27 #kisslinux <sad_plan> I cant even start to program an app, because I dont even know where to begin, so youre still ahead of me anyway:p
2021-02-03T01:10:31 #kisslinux <sad_plan> yeah :p
2021-02-03T01:10:50 #kisslinux <midfavila> i think programming an """""app""""" is kinda silly. a lot of modern projects are
2021-02-03T01:11:08 #kisslinux <midfavila> right now I just use programming as a way to reaffirm my (albeit limited) understanding of mathematics
2021-02-03T01:11:23 #kisslinux <midfavila> so I'll implement basic concepts or algorithims using language primitives and just mess around with those
2021-02-03T01:11:45 #kisslinux <sad_plan> I always tend to see an "app" more of a mobile apk, due to people refering to it as that. which is rather silly tbh..
2021-02-03T01:11:45 #kisslinux <midfavila> SICP does a lot of that stuff anyway
2021-02-03T01:12:03 #kisslinux <sad_plan> nice
2021-02-03T01:12:15 #kisslinux <midfavila> Yeah. I ordered a first edition of it a little while ago
2021-02-03T01:12:43 #kisslinux <midfavila> so I'm gonna watch the MIT OpenCourseWare tapes in the morning, work on the problems in the text in the afternoon, and try to replace my shell scripts with scheme programs in the evening
2021-02-03T01:13:03 #kisslinux <midfavila> i figure if I run through the tapes and the book twice, that should give me a solid foundation for programming
2021-02-03T01:13:14 #kisslinux <midfavila> ...even if SICP is kind of a meme
2021-02-03T01:13:32 #kisslinux <sad_plan> I dont even know what SICP is tbh.. :p
2021-02-03T01:13:45 #kisslinux <midfavila> it's the textbook for MIT's old CS course
2021-02-03T01:14:00 #kisslinux <midfavila> CS 6.001 The Structure and Interpretation of Computer Programs
2021-02-03T01:14:03 #kisslinux <sad_plan> ah, why is it kindof a meme exacly?
2021-02-03T01:14:09 #kisslinux <midfavila> ...i'll show you :v
2021-02-03T01:14:43 #kisslinux <midfavila> there's a few lessons where the instructors dress up as wizards
2021-02-03T01:15:05 #kisslinux <sad_plan> thats funny
2021-02-03T01:15:10 #kisslinux <midfavila> and the instructors are just super amusing people
2021-02-03T01:15:43 #kisslinux <midfavila> the first class starts off with "computer so-called science isn't a science, and it doesn't have much to do with computers. in fact comptuer science has a lot more in common with magic than science"
2021-02-03T01:15:50 #kisslinux <midfavila> and they really run with that theme
2021-02-03T01:15:54 #kisslinux <sad_plan> maybe they exerimented with making learning more fun? I know that if something is completey utterly boring, one can have more difficutly learning it
2021-02-03T01:16:20 #kisslinux <midfavila> i dunno if i'd call their teaching style "fun" in the sense that they make stuff a game or whatever
2021-02-03T01:16:26 #kisslinux <sad_plan> I get the idea:p
2021-02-03T01:16:38 #kisslinux <midfavila> but the instructors are definitely passionate and there's a certain momentum that makes it easy to get swept up
2021-02-03T01:16:40 #kisslinux <midfavila> in a good way
2021-02-03T01:16:51 #kisslinux <sad_plan> thats great
2021-02-03T01:17:27 #kisslinux <midfavila> anyway I gotta go up and wait for my pizza
2021-02-03T01:17:28 #kisslinux <midfavila> bbl
2021-02-03T01:19:03 #kisslinux <sad_plan> enjoy your pizza. im off to bed soon anyway. its getting rather late here where I live.
2021-02-03T03:29:53 #kisslinux <ricardog08> to you, if the suckless surf browser works in kiss linux?
2021-02-03T03:30:22 #kisslinux <midfavila> surf does work, yes
2021-02-03T03:32:21 #kisslinux <ricardog08> how strange, not me
2021-02-03T04:27:46 #kisslinux <testuser[m]_> hi
2021-02-03T05:59:40 #kisslinux <paniash> hello there
2021-02-03T06:00:00 #kisslinux <paniash> midfavila1: hi
2021-02-03T06:42:06 #kisslinux <midfavila> oh, hey
2021-02-03T06:42:10 #kisslinux <midfavila> was a bit busy
2021-02-03T13:58:17 #kisslinux <ominous_anonymou> Just to reiterate and clarify: Dylan's guidestones were directed towards the core KISS stuff, like dylin mentioned. Anything beyond that he left up to the users of KISS to determine. All that would need doing regarding the core KISS stuff is maintenance on the core repo packages -- essentially just update versions and sources.
2021-02-03T13:59:14 #kisslinux <ominous_anonymou> The "responsibility" of the BDFL in regards to the community repository is to review requests for addition/modification of packages to community repo. I think this function can be done by a group like it kind of already is, it doesn't have to be a single person
2021-02-03T14:01:03 #kisslinux <ominous_anonymou> Dylan's one point was that only the "maintainer" of a package in community should be able to make changes to that package (through sending a pull request to the "BDFL" or group governance entity)
2021-02-03T14:02:17 #kisslinux <ominous_anonymou> This is essentially exactly what has already been done, the exception being the community repo had to be "moved" so that the pull requests could continue to be answered/acted on
2021-02-03T14:18:38 #kisslinux <jedavies> I'm also in favor of just keeping the main repo up to date, and doing what ominous_anonymou mentioned regarding community.
2021-02-03T14:19:15 #kisslinux <jedavies> If someone wants to do something fundamentally different with KISS they should create a fork - this should be the case regardless of whether Dylan is around or not.
2021-02-03T16:43:16 #kisslinux <dilyn> midfavila: math understanding?? maths is overrated. fuck maths
2021-02-03T16:50:02 #kisslinux <ricardog08> good morning
2021-02-03T16:56:22 #kisslinux <testuser[m]_> hi
2021-02-03T16:58:50 #kisslinux <soliwilos> Hello.
2021-02-03T22:10:11 #kisslinux <retrohacker> How are the release packages created? Is it just an install of all `core` packages into an empty directory followed by creating the `tar.xz`?
2021-02-03T22:24:41 #kisslinux <acheam> I think so... not sure if Dylan has documented this anywhere
2021-02-03T22:28:29 #kisslinux <dilyn> i'd imagine his initial process was setting KISS_ROOT to some directory, installing all of the packages relevant from core to that directory, and then just...
2021-02-03T22:28:53 #kisslinux <dilyn> cd $KISS_ROOT && tar cf - . | xz -zT 0 >> $HOME/kiss-$YEAR.$MONTH-$VER.tar.xz
2021-02-03T22:55:12 #kisslinux <retrohacker> Right on, thank you.
2021-02-03T23:25:06 #kisslinux <nerditup> I believe dilyn is correct, its the simplest way I can think doing it. Unfortunately, it hasn't been documented anywhere though explicitly.
2021-02-03T23:29:11 #kisslinux <dilyn> it better be right it's the way i make my archives and backups xD
2021-02-03T23:30:36 #kisslinux <sh4rm4^bnc> could also use XZ_OPTS="-T 0 -9 -e" tar cZf for that matter
2021-02-03T23:31:46 #kisslinux <sh4rm4^bnc> s/Z/J/ , what am i smoking
2021-02-03T23:31:47 #kisslinux <kissbot> <sh4rm4^bnc> could also use XJ_OPTS="-T 0 -9 -e" tar cZf for that matter
2021-02-03T23:32:55 #kisslinux <dilyn> could also make it a one liner
2021-02-03T23:32:59 #kisslinux <dilyn> mmhmmhmm
2021-02-03T23:33:23 #kisslinux <dilyn> (kiss uses the line I referenced to create the package tarballs for the curious)
2021-02-03T23:51:33 #kisslinux <aarng> https://www.reddit.com/r/kisslinux/comments/l4lzrq/how_do_you_configure_st_and_sowm/
2021-02-03T23:52:16 #kisslinux <aarng> this made me think, what if kiss would also read *.local files for {checksums,depends,sources}
2021-02-03T23:53:10 #kisslinux <acheam> how is that different from just making a custom repo?
2021-02-03T23:53:18 #kisslinux <aarng> so if you fork a pkg to add your modifications, like adding your own config.h to st/dwm
2021-02-03T23:53:30 #kisslinux <aarng> you can't symlink checksums anymore
2021-02-03T23:53:44 #kisslinux <aarng> at which point you have to manually track updates to the package
2021-02-03T23:54:05 #kisslinux <aarng> s/package/software/
2021-02-03T23:54:05 #kisslinux <kissbot> <aarng> at which point you have to manually track updates to the software
2021-02-03T23:55:17 #kisslinux <acheam> sounds like it shouldn't be too hard to build as a kiss extension
2021-02-03T23:55:45 #kisslinux <dilyn> you could be super clever and add the patches to the forked build script so you don't modify the checksums
2021-02-03T23:56:35 #kisslinux <aarng> I guess you could even put the entire config.h into the build file :)
2021-02-03T23:56:44 #kisslinux <aarng> wdym, acheam
2021-02-03T23:56:48 #kisslinux <aarng> via the hooks?
2021-02-03T23:57:57 #kisslinux <dilyn> there's technically no reason a build script couldn't include a wget line to download a patch and then apply it; it just wouldn't be a package that could be accepted into community
2021-02-03T23:58:31 #kisslinux <aarng> yea
2021-02-03T23:58:32 #kisslinux <acheam> that's what I was thinking, itd just check for .local files on pre build
2021-02-03T23:59:24 #kisslinux <aarng> I haven't actually toyed with the hooks yet, will have a look