💾 Archived View for gemini.ctrl-c.club › ~phoebos › logs › kisslinux-2023-04-27.txt captured on 2024-05-26 at 16:01:23.

View Raw

More Information

⬅️ Previous capture (2023-05-24)

-=-=-=-=-=-=-

[2023-04-27T01:07:46Z] <Gremlin8483> hi im trying to see if kisslinux meets my requirements, is it expected to be able to maintain our own initial install tarballs and package repos from here on out? i know there are community repos and some forks but probably better to be self sufficient, thanks in advance
[2023-04-27T01:16:52Z] <midfavila> Gremlin8483: if you want to experiment with the base set of packages, it might be better to be self-sufficient, yes
[2023-04-27T01:19:13Z] <Gremlin8483> thanks for the reply, from what i read its relatively trivial to make a tarball using the package manager to build the pkgs; i have another question, i mostly use POSIX shell as my main scripting language, i heard that should be enough here? no wierd languages or build syntaxes other than posix and c?
[2023-04-27T01:20:02Z] <midfavila> correct
[2023-04-27T01:20:14Z] <midfavila> most of us use POSIX bourne and C here
[2023-04-27T01:20:32Z] <Gremlin8483> that alone is a huge plus for me
[2023-04-27T01:20:38Z] <midfavila> it's not unheard of for people here to work with other languages though
[2023-04-27T01:20:41Z] <midfavila> but it's not super common
[2023-04-27T01:21:04Z] <midfavila> usually python and lua, but I'll often talk about scheme 
[2023-04-27T01:21:12Z] <Gremlin8483> i like using other languages, but when it comes to adding them into oses, the complexity is too much
[2023-04-27T01:21:15Z] <midfavila> forth as well
[2023-04-27T01:21:19Z] <Gremlin8483> plus every distro has their own special language
[2023-04-27T01:21:21Z] <midfavila> and yes, you aren't wrong
[2023-04-27T01:21:34Z] <midfavila> i use bourne and C begrudgingly, for systems programming
[2023-04-27T01:21:43Z] <Gremlin8483> but i can get away with just posix and c, no need to touch the rest
[2023-04-27T01:21:49Z] <midfavila> if there's a specialized task that a more expressive language is better at solving, i'll use it then, but... 
[2023-04-27T01:21:52Z] <midfavila> meh
[2023-04-27T01:22:00Z] <Gremlin8483> thank goodness
[2023-04-27T01:22:34Z] <Gremlin8483> are we still talking about the distro or programming in general
[2023-04-27T01:22:42Z] <midfavila> programming in general
[2023-04-27T01:22:42Z] <Gremlin8483> cuz for programming in general anything goes
[2023-04-27T01:22:46Z] <Gremlin8483> ah gotcha
[2023-04-27T01:22:48Z] <midfavila> kiss isn't really a distro per se
[2023-04-27T01:22:56Z] <midfavila> it's just a package manager
[2023-04-27T01:23:00Z] <Gremlin8483> fine with me
[2023-04-27T01:23:09Z] <midfavila> like, me for example, i haven't tracked community or official in years
[2023-04-27T01:23:17Z] <Gremlin8483> if there is a philosophy attached to it (simple, posix, c), then that to me is a distro in spirit
[2023-04-27T01:23:22Z] <midfavila> sometimes i'll copy packages but it's not common
[2023-04-27T01:23:26Z] <midfavila> and i suppose that that's fair
[2023-04-27T01:24:09Z] <midfavila> anyway yeah, nobody here will begrudge you for using C or POSIX shell 
[2023-04-27T01:24:12Z] <Gremlin8483> i hopped ALL the distros so far, and i think the recurring theme is, this distro lets you do this, this distro doesnt allow those packages, or those build flags
[2023-04-27T01:24:15Z] <Gremlin8483> trying to get away from that
[2023-04-27T01:24:18Z] * midfavila nods
[2023-04-27T01:25:05Z] <midfavila> KISS is basically LFS, so if you can figure it out you can do it. no need to fight against preexisting crap because... there really isn't any
[2023-04-27T01:25:28Z] <Gremlin8483> i watched a tutorial on lfs, itwasnt clear to me how dependency management worked there, i read it was a pain
[2023-04-27T01:25:39Z] <midfavila> it uh, didn't work, because there's no package manager
[2023-04-27T01:25:48Z] <Gremlin8483> but i am decent with posix, so maybe this is the distro for me
[2023-04-27T01:25:50Z] <midfavila> you hand-solve dependency chains and then... yeah
[2023-04-27T01:25:56Z] <midfavila> and hey, only way to know is to try
[2023-04-27T01:26:03Z] <midfavila> unpack a tarball and chroot into it and fiddle for a bit
[2023-04-27T01:26:03Z] <Gremlin8483> installing on a laptop as we speak
[2023-04-27T01:26:12Z] <Gremlin8483> using the gentoo livecd
[2023-04-27T01:26:17Z] <midfavila> >genpoo
[2023-04-27T01:26:20Z] * midfavila retches
[2023-04-27T01:26:22Z] <Gremlin8483> i did some gentoo yesterday but it wasnt for me
[2023-04-27T01:26:42Z] <Gremlin8483> i thought it was a flexible independent distro at first, but all the dependencies python perl and portage
[2023-04-27T01:26:46Z] <Gremlin8483> confusing as hell
[2023-04-27T01:26:48Z] <midfavila> yeah
[2023-04-27T01:27:00Z] <midfavila> if you want the ultimate in customization, use KISS
[2023-04-27T01:27:18Z] <Gremlin8483> plus it puts you on a set linear path of repos, with profiles and system sets
[2023-04-27T01:27:22Z] <midfavila> but expect to spend a not insignificant amount of time digging yourself out of any holes you fall into while tinkering 
[2023-04-27T01:27:26Z] <Gremlin8483> just another word for you must go this route or else
[2023-04-27T01:27:33Z] <Gremlin8483> thats the price of freedom
[2023-04-27T01:27:47Z] <Gremlin8483> i want freedom but i dont want to reinvent the wheel
[2023-04-27T01:28:01Z] <Gremlin8483> the posix part is what decides it for me, its how i would do it if i wanted to make a modular simple os
[2023-04-27T01:29:42Z] <midfavila> oh boy is it ever the price of freedom
[2023-04-27T01:29:48Z] <midfavila> i've spent weeks fucking around with CDE
[2023-04-27T01:29:52Z] <midfavila> trying to get it to run on KISS
[2023-04-27T01:29:56Z] <midfavila> and it's really not cooperating
[2023-04-27T01:30:11Z] <Gremlin8483> id rather waste time on something rather than give up control 
[2023-04-27T01:30:13Z] <Gremlin8483> first you give up a little
[2023-04-27T01:30:16Z] <Gremlin8483> then more, and more
[2023-04-27T01:30:24Z] <midfavila> well, welcome to the club, then
[2023-04-27T01:30:44Z] <Gremlin8483> cool beans, i hope this is the one, but i said that a lot, from debian to alpine to bsds to here
[2023-04-27T01:32:13Z] <Gremlin8483> but i will say you can never appreciate what you have here without experiencing all the others, you would instead be asking, why this hassle, and doubt yourself
[2023-04-27T01:33:06Z] <midfavila> you aren't wrong
[2023-04-27T01:38:52Z] <Gremlin8483> what kind of problem did you have with cde, btw?
[2023-04-27T01:40:11Z] <midfavila> oh, it's just not linking properly during build
[2023-04-27T01:40:29Z] <Gremlin8483> musl issue?
[2023-04-27T01:40:39Z] <midfavila> no, i think it's something to do with their build system
[2023-04-27T01:40:45Z] <midfavila> it's just not issuing the right linker commands for some reason
[2023-04-27T01:41:06Z] <Gremlin8483> if only c build systems adopted kiss
[2023-04-27T01:41:27Z] <Gremlin8483> there would be no need for heaven, we'd already be there
[2023-04-27T01:55:40Z] <midfavila> https://yt.artemislena.eu/watch?v=7nKZuIyPMKs
[2023-04-27T01:55:47Z] <midfavila> it's a terrible night to have to debug this shit
[2023-04-27T01:59:22Z] <Gremlin8483> damn i wish i had sound on this machine
[2023-04-27T01:59:31Z] <Gremlin8483> what is this, debugging music?
[2023-04-27T01:59:50Z] <midfavila> no it's a cover of bloody tears from simon's quest
[2023-04-27T02:00:04Z] <Gremlin8483> as it is pulseaudio fubared my sound, while strangley microphone still works
[2023-04-27T02:00:09Z] <midfavila> well, i suppose it's debugging music in the sense that i'm listening to it while figuring this out
[2023-04-27T02:00:13Z] <Gremlin8483> i watched a speedrun of that recently it hink
[2023-04-27T02:00:25Z] <Gremlin8483> is that the one wher eyou have multiple characters  and divergine paths
[2023-04-27T02:00:29Z] <midfavila> if it's the open world one tha- no
[2023-04-27T02:00:32Z] <midfavila> that sounds like 3 or 4
[2023-04-27T02:00:36Z] <midfavila> simon's quest is the second
[2023-04-27T02:00:42Z] <midfavila> it's the open world one that everyone says is shit
[2023-04-27T02:01:08Z] <Gremlin8483> they are all decent in my mind, did you ever play them all?
[2023-04-27T02:01:25Z] <midfavila> i played the first and second when i was really young but i haven't gone back to games in a while
[2023-04-27T02:01:28Z] <midfavila> short of some open source stuff
[2023-04-27T02:01:42Z] <Gremlin8483> yea same linux is my 'games' now
[2023-04-27T02:01:48Z] <midfavila> i'm hoping that after finishing the next tarball of my KISS fork i'll be able to set up an emulator and stuff
[2023-04-27T02:01:49Z] <Gremlin8483> i played symphony of night
[2023-04-27T02:02:01Z] <Gremlin8483> better start archiving roms and stuff
[2023-04-27T02:02:03Z] <midfavila> that's one of the GBA ones right?
[2023-04-27T02:02:10Z] <Gremlin8483> i think the internet will become more restrictive in the future
[2023-04-27T02:02:16Z] <Gremlin8483> playstation
[2023-04-27T02:02:18Z] <midfavila> aah
[2023-04-27T02:02:19Z] <Gremlin8483> its the highest rated one
[2023-04-27T02:07:30Z] <drez> >genpoo | nice 
[2023-04-27T02:08:05Z] <drez> isn't simon's quest a castlevania game
[2023-04-27T02:08:09Z] <midfavila> yes
[2023-04-27T02:08:10Z] <midfavila> the second
[2023-04-27T02:08:23Z] <midfavila> and, imo, one of the most underrated games of all time
[2023-04-27T02:08:30Z] <drez> i wanna play it at some point
[2023-04-27T02:08:42Z] <midfavila> highly recommended, but you'll need a walkthrough
[2023-04-27T02:08:44Z] <drez> the silence of daylight is a cool track
[2023-04-27T02:09:10Z] <drez> i remember watching this MAD https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0y6ARRlLlhg
[2023-04-27T02:10:02Z] <drez> hm
[2023-04-27T02:10:09Z] <drez> KISS emulators on KISS linux...
[2023-04-27T02:10:16Z] <drez> I know one
[2023-04-27T02:10:23Z] <drez> https://github.com/rofl0r/gnuboy gameboy
[2023-04-27T02:10:34Z] <midfavila> do you know of a minimal DS emulator?
[2023-04-27T02:10:40Z] <midfavila> i want to replay Explorers of Sky 
[2023-04-27T02:10:42Z] <drez> lets see
[2023-04-27T02:10:49Z] <drez> desmume... melonds... not sure 
[2023-04-27T02:11:02Z] <midfavila> desmume doesn't build for me unfortunately
[2023-04-27T02:11:03Z] <drez> no$gba is probably quite minimal , but its proprietary
[2023-04-27T02:11:13Z] <drez> hm maybe try an older release
[2023-04-27T02:11:18Z] <drez> desmume doesn't get much activity anyways
[2023-04-27T02:12:01Z] <drez> >DeSmuME 0.9.10 released! November 28th, 2013 
[2023-04-27T02:12:03Z] <drez> >DeSmuME 0.9.11 released! April 15th, 2015 
[2023-04-27T02:12:08Z] <drez> ?DeSmuME 0.9.13 released! May 23rd, 2022 
[2023-04-27T02:12:12Z] <drez> fail
[2023-04-27T02:12:14Z] <drez> quoting fail
[2023-04-27T02:14:56Z] <Gremlin8483> pretty much config for everything pacakge related is stored in shell .profile? simple and genius 
[2023-04-27T02:16:00Z] <Gremlin8483> what about retroarch? they are kinda bloated tho
[2023-04-27T02:16:35Z] <midfavila> yeah, it's an option, just not my first choice
[2023-04-27T02:27:00Z] <Gremlin8483> being new to packaging, is there any advantage/skill involved in having "official packages" in terms of security? or its just a matter of timely applying patches that anyone can do?
[2023-04-27T02:28:16Z] <Gremlin8483> i meant offical packages as in distro-maintainers for like distros with big repos, is the security work they do specialized?
[2023-04-27T02:28:32Z] <midfavila> for most? i would say probably not
[2023-04-27T02:28:42Z] <midfavila> red hat probably does internal R&D for security
[2023-04-27T02:28:51Z] <midfavila> openwall most definitely does a lot of that sort of stuff
[2023-04-27T02:28:56Z] <midfavila> debian might
[2023-04-27T02:29:01Z] <midfavila> but honestly? just steal their patches 
[2023-04-27T02:29:05Z] <midfavila> sorry, borry 
[2023-04-27T02:29:07Z] <midfavila> borrow even
[2023-04-27T02:29:08Z] <midfavila> fuck
[2023-04-27T02:29:13Z] <Gremlin8483> haha that makes a lot of sense
[2023-04-27T02:29:20Z] <Gremlin8483> "appropriate"
[2023-04-27T02:29:28Z] <midfavila> exactly
[2023-04-27T02:30:26Z] <drez> sorry borry
[2023-04-27T02:30:26Z] <Gremlin8483> i was thinking gen[tp]oo, since they have a hardened package branch
[2023-04-27T02:30:33Z] <drez> tp=toilet paper
[2023-04-27T02:30:47Z] <midfavila> that might just be a different set of cflags
[2023-04-27T02:31:07Z] <Gremlin8483> shouldnt the upstream source be resposnible for most security patches?
[2023-04-27T02:31:10Z] <midfavila> -pipe -w -O2 -fno-expensive-optimizations -fno-expensive-optimizations -D_GLIBCXX_ASSERTIONS -D_FORTIFY_SOURCE=2 -fno-plt -fisolate-erroneous-paths-attribute -fstack-protector-strong --param ssp-buffer-size=4 -fstack-clash-protection
[2023-04-27T02:31:10Z] <midfavila> use these or a subset thereof and you'll be fine
[2023-04-27T02:31:14Z] <midfavila> and yes, that would be ideal
[2023-04-27T02:31:15Z] <Gremlin8483> or they might not be timely enough
[2023-04-27T02:31:18Z] <midfavila> but sometimes upstream is stupi- yeah
[2023-04-27T02:31:26Z] <Gremlin8483> ah now it all starts making sense
[2023-04-27T02:31:29Z] <Gremlin8483> why things the way they are
[2023-04-27T02:31:43Z] <Gremlin8483> you simply dont learn a lot of this stuff using debian day to day
[2023-04-27T02:32:47Z] <Gremlin8483> meanwhile, my laptop is now an expensive hotplate for the next few hours presumably
[2023-04-27T02:33:06Z] <midfavila> at some point i really need to start doing binaries for people
[2023-04-27T02:33:27Z] <midfavila> open question, do any of you know who runs the kiss community server? i don't mind setting my workstation to run builds of all the community binaries once or twice a month
[2023-04-27T02:33:50Z] <Gremlin8483> charge a compilation cpu time and service tax (jk)
[2023-04-27T02:37:27Z] <drez> >i don't mind setting my workstation to run builds of all the community binaries once or twice a month 
[2023-04-27T02:37:28Z] <drez> wut
[2023-04-27T02:37:31Z] <drez> but werent you going to sell it
[2023-04-27T02:37:41Z] <midfavila> i'm still trying to find someone who isn't going to rip me off
[2023-04-27T02:37:51Z] <midfavila> one guy messaged me a while back offering 1500 
[2023-04-27T02:37:53Z] <drez> rip you off like pay too little?
[2023-04-27T02:37:58Z] <midfavila> yes
[2023-04-27T02:38:07Z] <drez> you were asking like 3k for it right?
[2023-04-27T02:38:15Z] <midfavila> at least 2500 
[2023-04-27T02:38:24Z] <midfavila> it's worth more 
[2023-04-27T02:38:28Z] <drez> yah 2.5k is the bare minimum i agree
[2023-04-27T02:38:34Z] <Gremlin8483> thats quite a huge lowball
[2023-04-27T02:38:37Z] <drez> i mean its a great workstation 
[2023-04-27T02:38:44Z] <drez> but its not like balls to the wall expensive
[2023-04-27T02:38:46Z] <Gremlin8483> block that user immediately
[2023-04-27T02:38:56Z] <midfavila> indeed, Gremlin8483, especially considering the motherboard alone is selling for 1100 to 1400CAD on its own
[2023-04-27T02:39:02Z] <midfavila> intel s2600cw2r
[2023-04-27T02:39:07Z] <drez> oh ok i didnt know that. lol
[2023-04-27T02:39:18Z] <Gremlin8483> if someone is asking a certain amount and you lowball them almost 50%, that is a red flag
[2023-04-27T02:39:29Z] <midfavila> it's basic economics
[2023-04-27T02:39:33Z] <midfavila> or, well, business
[2023-04-27T02:39:36Z] <drez> then its worth 3.5k at the very least, or youre getting your balls broken
[2023-04-27T02:39:49Z] <midfavila> sellers should always highball, buyers lowball
[2023-04-27T02:40:00Z] <midfavila> anyone who takes a price at face value without negotiating is a sucker
[2023-04-27T02:40:12Z] <Gremlin8483> lowball based on the real value, 50% discount is too much
[2023-04-27T02:40:27Z] <midfavila> his whole thing was "well ya know it *is* a haswell..."
[2023-04-27T02:40:37Z] <midfavila> and it's like... yeah so what? it's a 48 thread workstation
[2023-04-27T02:40:38Z] <drez> hes right though
[2023-04-27T02:40:51Z] <drez> yeah but that single core performance sucks pelotas
[2023-04-27T02:41:01Z] <midfavila> drez, if the main value of the machine was single-core CPU performance, i would agree
[2023-04-27T02:41:05Z] <midfavila> but it's not
[2023-04-27T02:41:08Z] <drez> i see
[2023-04-27T02:41:13Z] <midfavila> the CPUs in this thing are maybe 60$ tops, together
[2023-04-27T02:41:17Z] <midfavila> because xeons are dirt cheap
[2023-04-27T02:41:28Z] <drez> my workstation is very similar to yours
[2023-04-27T02:41:31Z] <drez> except opterons instead of xeons
[2023-04-27T02:41:40Z] <midfavila> it's the motherboard, chassis, and storage that contribute most to the value of my setup
[2023-04-27T02:42:10Z] <midfavila> i was considering an opteron machine originally
[2023-04-27T02:42:15Z] <drez> i have a kgpe
[2023-04-27T02:42:16Z] <midfavila> for that sweet, sweet libreboot
[2023-04-27T02:42:19Z] <Gremlin8483> whats are the storage and motherboard features? i havent built any machines in a long while
[2023-04-27T02:42:26Z] <drez> pretty happy about it
[2023-04-27T02:42:28Z] <drez> but there is one thing
[2023-04-27T02:42:32Z] <drez> it uses way too much power
[2023-04-27T02:42:38Z] <drez> wayyyyy too much
[2023-04-27T02:42:55Z] <drez> made by worse by the fact i have a rx 480 installed on it
[2023-04-27T02:43:18Z] <midfavila> of my machine? i've got 6tb of HGST hard disk space, ~400gb of SLC samsung solid state, and a 1gb onboard SSD for rescues
[2023-04-27T02:43:19Z] <midfavila> as for the motherboard's features... it doesn't really have any of its own, which is why i bought it
[2023-04-27T02:43:24Z] <midfavila> but it has fuckhuge expansion capability
[2023-04-27T02:43:33Z] <drez> 1gb onboard?
[2023-04-27T02:43:36Z] <drez> like part of the mobo?
[2023-04-27T02:43:47Z] <midfavila> yeah. it's a little integrated USB drive
[2023-04-27T02:43:51Z] <drez> oh, cool
[2023-04-27T02:43:52Z] <midfavila> uses a little header 
[2023-04-27T02:43:58Z] <drez> hey, the little usb header
[2023-04-27T02:44:01Z] <midfavila> 9-pin i think?
[2023-04-27T02:44:05Z] <Gremlin8483> i never knew how important sata ports were before i built mine
[2023-04-27T02:44:16Z] <Gremlin8483> but i did so 10 yrs ago so still old tech
[2023-04-27T02:44:20Z] <midfavila> my mobo might have a few sata ports but
[2023-04-27T02:44:22Z] <drez> the kgpe has an actual usb 2.0 port on the board that's not part of the backplate
[2023-04-27T02:44:32Z] <midfavila> i use a discrete disk controller card and SAS disks
[2023-04-27T02:44:35Z] <midfavila> LSI9240
[2023-04-27T02:44:45Z] <drez> so fancy
[2023-04-27T02:44:46Z] <Gremlin8483> i have no idea what those even are at this time
[2023-04-27T02:44:52Z] <Gremlin8483> i know sas is backwards sata compatible
[2023-04-27T02:44:57Z] <midfavila> yeah
[2023-04-27T02:45:09Z] <midfavila> it's basically just scsi over sata's physical layer
[2023-04-27T02:45:10Z] <Gremlin8483> sounds fancy
[2023-04-27T02:45:19Z] <drez> ikr
[2023-04-27T02:45:26Z] <midfavila> SAS disks are just cheaper and potentially higher quality than SATA ones
[2023-04-27T02:45:44Z] <midfavila> plus if i need to do a low-level format like to change block sizes or whatever my card can do that, too
[2023-04-27T02:45:49Z] <midfavila> which has actually come in handy a few times
[2023-04-27T02:45:56Z] <Gremlin8483> didnt know that, i bought a rack server to play around with and it has sas, didnt research it much yet
[2023-04-27T02:46:30Z] <drez> change block sizes?
[2023-04-27T02:46:41Z] <drez> does that somehow configure the storage devices themselves?
[2023-04-27T02:46:54Z] <midfavila> sector sizes w/e, it's been a while since i've looked into it
[2023-04-27T02:46:55Z] <midfavila> and yes, that's correct
[2023-04-27T02:46:55Z] <drez> ion get it
[2023-04-27T02:47:03Z] <drez> whoa, impressive, very nice
[2023-04-27T02:47:14Z] <midfavila> it's been a while since i've looked into it so i won't try to explain in detail because i don't want to deceive you by accident
[2023-04-27T02:47:36Z] <midfavila> but from what i recall the size of sectors isn't fixed, it's set by the factory in most cases
[2023-04-27T02:47:37Z] <midfavila> but not all
[2023-04-27T02:47:50Z] <midfavila> so if you get a disk that isn't set up in that way, your OS won't be able to use it 
[2023-04-27T02:47:58Z] <midfavila> hence the utility of a "low level" format
[2023-04-27T02:48:20Z] <midfavila> idk if it can be done from within an OS or not
[2023-04-27T02:48:27Z] <midfavila> might be able to
[2023-04-27T02:48:31Z] <midfavila> haven't bothered to look
[2023-04-27T02:51:17Z] <Gremlin8483> how fast does your machine build the kiss core/extras when installing?
[2023-04-27T02:51:42Z] <Gremlin8483> took my poor intel 8364U laptop an hour, maybe a bit more
[2023-04-27T02:52:00Z] <midfavila> i don't track upstream
[2023-04-27T02:52:06Z] <midfavila> but i can rebuild my entire core in...
[2023-04-27T02:52:08Z] <midfavila> maybe ten minutes
[2023-04-27T02:52:14Z] <midfavila> that's just an estimate, it's probably less
[2023-04-27T02:52:23Z] <midfavila> but that should reflect on my choice of software as much as my machine
[2023-04-27T02:52:26Z] <Gremlin8483> truly porche vs honda civic
[2023-04-27T02:52:43Z] <midfavila> even among kiss users my fork is particularly low-fat
[2023-04-27T02:53:09Z] <Gremlin8483> do you  share  the package list some place?
[2023-04-27T02:53:14Z] <Gremlin8483> im all about lean
[2023-04-27T02:53:22Z] <midfavila> no firefox, no ffmpeg, no nothing. at least in the revision i'm working on right now
[2023-04-27T02:53:30Z] <midfavila> as for the previous version(s), https://git.sdf.org/midfavila
[2023-04-27T02:53:32Z] <Gremlin8483> i use w3m myself
[2023-04-27T02:53:34Z] <midfavila> kiss-mfavila-large and -small
[2023-04-27T02:53:40Z] <midfavila> i'm a links1 guy
[2023-04-27T02:54:02Z] <Gremlin8483> can you set up shell scripts to customize links functionality? only reason i went w3m was tabs and also bunch of shell scripts to do custom stuff
[2023-04-27T02:54:50Z] <Gremlin8483> ty for the link
[2023-04-27T02:55:57Z] <midfavila> links allows you to pass certain data to external programs, but that's about it
[2023-04-27T02:56:04Z] <midfavila> to be clear, i don't *like* links
[2023-04-27T02:56:09Z] <midfavila> but it's the best of the worst
[2023-04-27T02:56:12Z] <Gremlin8483> links also "looks" better kinda
[2023-04-27T02:58:12Z] <midfavila> at some point i want to patch links to use libtls and then maybe go from there
[2023-04-27T02:58:24Z] <midfavila> i'd *like* to write my own browser with rough feature parity to links1
[2023-04-27T02:58:33Z] <Gremlin8483> same with w3m, but i looked at the codebase and at the time it was too overwhelming
[2023-04-27T02:58:52Z] <midfavila> w3m is like 50k lines isn't it? and it uses bohm-gc
[2023-04-27T02:58:57Z] <midfavila> links1 is comparatively tame at around 30k
[2023-04-27T02:59:57Z] <Gremlin8483> i resolved to just whip up some posix scripts to do what i wanted, mainly archive every page i visit, bookmarks, and fuzzy searches
[2023-04-27T03:00:02Z] <Gremlin8483> still took days
[2023-04-27T03:00:42Z] <Gremlin8483> oh and also use multiple different types of search engine instances
[2023-04-27T03:00:56Z] <midfavila> what i'd like to do is basically write something approximating surf, but with links as the engine
[2023-04-27T03:00:56Z] <Gremlin8483> wish the mainstream browswers werent so bloated and useless
[2023-04-27T03:01:16Z] <Gremlin8483> it'd be nice to have the plugins and addons from firefox
[2023-04-27T03:01:19Z] <Gremlin8483> thats the only thing i miss
[2023-04-27T03:01:28Z] <midfavila> i don't think plugins or addons are really necessary, personally
[2023-04-27T03:01:42Z] <Gremlin8483> no, especially if javascript is disabled 
[2023-04-27T03:01:53Z] <Gremlin8483> but the modern web is unusable without an adblocker with firefox
[2023-04-27T03:02:02Z] <Gremlin8483> text browsers are okay
[2023-04-27T03:02:10Z] <Gremlin8483> except for some occasional formatting 
[2023-04-27T03:02:11Z] <midfavila> i just use an adblocker on my router /shrug
[2023-04-27T03:02:34Z] <drez> i like the feature richness of my uxp firefox 
[2023-04-27T03:02:38Z] <Gremlin8483> that does work, some sites have tricky ways to get around network based blocking
[2023-04-27T03:02:40Z] <drez> tree tabs is like crack
[2023-04-27T03:02:41Z] <Gremlin8483> they are too crafty
[2023-04-27T03:02:51Z] <Gremlin8483> drez i just discovered tree tabs
[2023-04-27T03:03:00Z] <Gremlin8483> and yes they are the ultimate drug
[2023-04-27T03:03:04Z] <drez> yep
[2023-04-27T03:03:07Z] <midfavila> i've never liked tree tabs
[2023-04-27T03:03:17Z] <midfavila> i'm an anti-tab extremist 
[2023-04-27T03:03:21Z] <drez> its perfect for research
[2023-04-27T03:03:34Z] <drez> man id just like a research-oriented browser
[2023-04-27T03:03:36Z] <midfavila> "research", he says, as he furiously exits furaffinity
[2023-04-27T03:03:37Z] <Gremlin8483> you can custom color code  and number the tabs, if you have hundreds
[2023-04-27T03:03:38Z] <drez> >click to save to warc
[2023-04-27T03:03:46Z] <drez> muh, I don't watch that sort of stuff
[2023-04-27T03:03:49Z] <midfavila> Gremlin8483: just don't have hundreds of tabs
[2023-04-27T03:03:52Z] <midfavila> drez yeah okay
[2023-04-27T03:03:57Z] <midfavila> i've seen what you do on your laptop you sick fuck
[2023-04-27T03:03:59Z] <drez> pot calling the kettle black
[2023-04-27T03:04:00Z] <midfavila> :^)
[2023-04-27T03:04:06Z] <drez> criminals judge by their own crimes
[2023-04-27T03:04:09Z] <drez> etc etc
[2023-04-27T03:04:10Z] <Gremlin8483> well i also rigged my computer to do voice searches, so im constantly searching and spawning tabs
[2023-04-27T03:04:30Z] <drez> damn what are you using?
[2023-04-27T03:04:36Z] <midfavila> i saw your post about space jam drez
[2023-04-27T03:04:38Z] <midfavila> you can't fool me
[2023-04-27T03:04:41Z] <midfavila> no matter how much you cope
[2023-04-27T03:04:46Z] <drez> space jam?
[2023-04-27T03:04:52Z] <Gremlin8483> i can say search something search something2 search something3 enter, and it will spawn 3 tabs and search all of them in one go
[2023-04-27T03:04:54Z] <drez> I can only think of the old space jam page that is supposedly still up
[2023-04-27T03:04:55Z] <midfavila> >playing dumb
[2023-04-27T03:05:02Z] <midfavila> yeah o k a y   b u d 
[2023-04-27T03:05:07Z] <drez> and I only ever watched it in class in middle school
[2023-04-27T03:05:09Z] <drez> never again
[2023-04-27T03:05:17Z] <midfavila> copecopecopecopecopecope
[2023-04-27T03:05:19Z] <drez> hm
[2023-04-27T03:05:24Z] <drez> I don't like this word
[2023-04-27T03:05:32Z] <drez> but it is likely you are projecting right now
[2023-04-27T03:05:34Z] <midfavila> cope
[2023-04-27T03:05:34Z] <midfavila> :3
[2023-04-27T03:06:59Z] <midfavila> fuckn sitting here fighting with CDE listening to the homestuck soundtrack, what am i doing with my life
[2023-04-27T03:07:19Z] <drez> currently sorting my research
[2023-04-27T03:07:22Z] <Gremlin8483> lviing the dream it sounds like
[2023-04-27T03:07:35Z] <midfavila> it's the dream until it's all you've done for years at a time
[2023-04-27T03:07:47Z] <midfavila> https://yt.artemislena.eu/watch?v=GtuhZ-8g2PI&listen=1
[2023-04-27T03:07:53Z] <midfavila> atomic bonsai is pretty good though
[2023-04-27T03:08:01Z] <Gremlin8483> times flies dont it
[2023-04-27T03:08:22Z] <midfavila> yeah i love watching my late teen early adult years fly by in a haze of anxiety and coofing
[2023-04-27T03:09:20Z] <Gremlin8483> at least we get to live in the time of fastest technological acceleration in history
[2023-04-27T03:09:28Z] <midfavila> >implying this is a good thing
[2023-04-27T03:09:37Z] <midfavila> bold move
[2023-04-27T03:09:43Z] <Gremlin8483> dunno about you but im a huge scifi nerd
[2023-04-27T03:09:49Z] <Gremlin8483> the future cant come fast enough
[2023-04-27T03:09:56Z] <midfavila> the future is here, and it sucks
[2023-04-27T03:10:05Z] <drez> the future has been here for a good while
[2023-04-27T03:10:07Z] <Gremlin8483> weve hit a plateau
[2023-04-27T03:10:19Z] <Gremlin8483> but i think after a short period stagation, we go parabolic
[2023-04-27T03:10:29Z] <Gremlin8483> who knows
[2023-04-27T03:10:33Z] <Gremlin8483> i read too much scifi crap
[2023-04-27T03:12:21Z] <Gremlin8483> should i use linux libre or regular, never had to make this chocie before
[2023-04-27T03:12:28Z] <midfavila> do you use binary blobs
[2023-04-27T03:12:29Z] <Gremlin8483> i know just a tiny bit about libre, only open source stuff
[2023-04-27T03:12:31Z] <Gremlin8483> no
[2023-04-27T03:12:35Z] <midfavila> then try libre.
[2023-04-27T03:12:40Z] <Gremlin8483> okey
[2023-04-27T03:12:44Z] <midfavila> if you need binary firmware blobs you'll need to use standard
[2023-04-27T03:13:01Z] <Gremlin8483> nah now every time i buy usb stuff, i check to see if the kernel supports it natively
[2023-04-27T03:13:06Z] <Gremlin8483> im sick of downloading crap from websites
[2023-04-27T03:13:10Z] <midfavila> if a person uses the term "libre" instead of "open source", they're making a hard commitment to avoid non-free software and if you rely on it you won't be able to use libre stuff
[2023-04-27T03:13:35Z] <Gremlin8483> ok, i didnt know it was a big deal
[2023-04-27T03:13:42Z] <Gremlin8483> too many ppl put libre in the name
[2023-04-27T03:13:49Z] <Gremlin8483> libre this, libre toaster, etc
[2023-04-27T03:14:49Z] <drez> usb is so unaesthetic
[2023-04-27T03:14:58Z] <drez> why can't pretty ports like firewire be widespread
[2023-04-27T03:15:02Z] <midfavila> it's also just a pain in my ass
[2023-04-27T03:15:07Z] <midfavila> i'd really rather just use serial 
[2023-04-27T03:15:14Z] <Gremlin8483> nooo you cant take away muh usb
[2023-04-27T03:15:17Z] <drez> yeah or db
[2023-04-27T03:15:17Z] <Gremlin8483> its the only thing i have left
[2023-04-27T03:15:21Z] <drez> or whatever the standard is called
[2023-04-27T03:15:28Z] <midfavila> db9?
[2023-04-27T03:15:28Z] <drez> abcd 1 2 3 4 5
[2023-04-27T03:15:30Z] <drez> db9
[2023-04-27T03:15:31Z] <drez> db25
[2023-04-27T03:15:32Z] <drez> da25
[2023-04-27T03:15:35Z] <drez> ac69
[2023-04-27T03:15:39Z] <drez> i forget what its called
[2023-04-27T03:15:52Z] <drez> i know it can be a letter pair with the pin count
[2023-04-27T03:16:05Z] <drez> parallel also looks cool
[2023-04-27T03:16:29Z] <drez> coax/triax looks sci-fi
[2023-04-27T03:16:33Z] <drez> especially triax
[2023-04-27T03:17:09Z] <drez> 1/4 jacks and xlr looks cool too
[2023-04-27T03:17:31Z] <drez> hdmi looks like crap
[2023-04-27T03:18:06Z] <Gremlin8483> displayport
[2023-04-27T03:18:08Z] <Gremlin8483> i rest my case
[2023-04-27T03:18:12Z] <drez> displayport looks like hdmi
[2023-04-27T03:18:14Z] <drez> a lot
[2023-04-27T03:18:18Z] <midfavila> looks don't matter when the slightest bit of trauma fucking annihilates hdmi ports *and* plugs
[2023-04-27T03:18:24Z] <Gremlin8483> its not even symetrical
[2023-04-27T03:18:28Z] <Gremlin8483> its so bad
[2023-04-27T03:18:32Z] <Gremlin8483> it made me buy a ton of useless adapters
[2023-04-27T03:18:36Z] <midfavila> vga, i've heard lots of people say is super fragile, but
[2023-04-27T03:18:37Z] <drez> i dont like the locking mechanism
[2023-04-27T03:18:42Z] <drez> DVI is fragile too
[2023-04-27T03:18:45Z] <drez> but I still like it
[2023-04-27T03:18:47Z] <midfavila> i've never once had a vga socket or plug break beyond repair
[2023-04-27T03:18:57Z] <drez> I mean as in, it can be annoying to connect properly
[2023-04-27T03:19:05Z] <Gremlin8483> plus vga supports up to 1920 res which is enough for most ppl including me
[2023-04-27T03:19:17Z] <midfavila> it used to be enough for me
[2023-04-27T03:19:25Z] <drez> vga is nice but it isn't digital
[2023-04-27T03:19:30Z] <midfavila> now i use 1536x2048 displays
[2023-04-27T03:19:36Z] <midfavila> and vga can't even dream of driving that
[2023-04-27T03:23:19Z] <Gremlin8483> i use a bunch of displays with lower res
[2023-04-27T03:23:32Z] <Gremlin8483> downside, you ahve to deal with a bunch of ports
[2023-04-27T03:32:42Z] <Gremlin8483> i can say that the installation is very straightfoward on kiss, its actually very similar to some of the lesser debian/arch forks whcih also use mainly command line
[2023-04-27T03:33:09Z] <midfavila> yeap
[2023-04-27T03:33:15Z] <midfavila> kiss isn't like, crazy giga brain mode or anything
[2023-04-27T03:33:23Z] <midfavila> you just kind of dump it on a partition
[2023-04-27T03:33:27Z] <Gremlin8483> i would probably make a shell script in future to automate most of it
[2023-04-27T03:33:35Z] <Gremlin8483> its really genius
[2023-04-27T03:33:45Z] <Gremlin8483> seen this way, every other distro is needlessly compilcated
[2023-04-27T03:34:15Z] <Gremlin8483> now my question is could you use this ever as a production server?
[2023-04-27T03:34:25Z] <midfavila> uh, as a server? i mean
[2023-04-27T03:34:33Z] <midfavila> that comes down to how comfortable you are administering whatever you set up
[2023-04-27T03:34:51Z] <Gremlin8483> you would just have to simplfily depoloyment and package management and patching
[2023-04-27T03:36:08Z] <midfavila> btw do any of you have experience troubleshooting libtool? i think that that might be the source of my CDE issues
[2023-04-27T03:37:40Z] <Gremlin8483> sorry not me
[2023-04-27T04:04:51Z] <Gremlin8483> is full disk encryption something straightforward/robust in kiss? i read some threads where they used a custom initramfs
[2023-04-27T05:05:16Z] <sewn> h
[2023-04-27T05:14:09Z] <testuser[m]> Hi
[2023-04-27T06:01:28Z] <Gremlin8483> how would i apply patches when building, i have trouble with building efivar, research shows it needs a patch to work with musl, it comes in a .c and .h file, do i just put those in the patches folder in the repo?
[2023-04-27T06:05:21Z] <Gremlin8483> or do i just overwrite the source files and retar the source
[2023-04-27T06:06:23Z] <Gremlin8483> oh its just a patch with diff, nvm
[2023-04-27T07:24:31Z] <sad_plan> hi
[2023-04-27T07:46:44Z] <sewn> hi sas_plan
[2023-04-27T23:25:25Z] <Gremlin8483> would kiss in theory work with a bsd kernel? it should right? being posix based