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[2023-04-15T01:02:22Z] <rubend> Hello everyone :)
[2023-04-15T01:04:59Z] <rubend> I'm installing Kiss right now, just found your distro a couple hours ago. I'm a complexity refugee seeking asylum in your simple world which I can't believe actually exists. This community has made my day today and I thought you'd be happy to hear that :)
[2023-04-15T01:14:36Z] <midfavila> RubenD, fresh meat for the grinder is always welcome
[2023-04-15T01:15:03Z] <midfavila> what land yonder do ye hail from, traveler?
[2023-04-15T01:25:31Z] <RubenD> diehard Windowed dad which has caused some issues, started mindlessly switching distros quarter of a lifetime ago ~2016, ditched university at the last year after getting an apartment with me fiance, life's been wild (in a good way) since we've been together. Doing shitton of projects in the meanwhile, currently https://talebox.dev , today I talked
[2023-04-15T01:25:31Z] <RubenD> to GPT-4 and it was inspiring and scary, Google 10.0, no need to read books anymore I guess... just waiting till Clippy (https://gwern.net/fiction/clippy) happens at this point lol...
[2023-04-15T01:26:49Z] <midfavila> >he's like thirty
[2023-04-15T01:26:49Z] <midfavila> go back to system seven old man reeeeeee
[2023-04-15T01:26:49Z] <midfavila> but that's fair
[2023-04-15T01:26:58Z] <midfavila> i don't really get the whole GPT thing. i guess it exists
[2023-04-15T01:27:06Z] <RubenD> i wonder how many come from a similar land... lol
[2023-04-15T01:27:16Z] <midfavila> for KISS? not many afaik
[2023-04-15T01:27:30Z] <midfavila> most come from arch or gentoo or crux. some from LFS
[2023-04-15T01:27:43Z] <midfavila> what did you last use?
[2023-04-15T01:28:18Z] <RubenD> settled on arch since 2016 lol
[2023-04-15T01:28:30Z] <RubenD> i'm 22 btw
[2023-04-15T01:28:59Z] <RubenD> maybe my math was off.. X)
[2023-04-15T01:39:14Z] <midfavila> little bit ye
[2023-04-15T01:39:17Z] <midfavila> not a big deal though
[2023-04-15T02:23:09Z] <sewn> <midfavila> ">he's like thirty" <- there was a 41yo here using  slackware I believe
[2023-04-15T02:23:15Z] <midfavila> based
[2023-04-15T02:47:32Z] <RubenD> quick question, how come kisslinux.org hasn't been updated in a while even though https://kisscommunity.org/ says it's the official site? Also codeberg has an "unofficial" repo but I'm following the tutorial on kisslinux.org which points to an oldish version of https://github.com/kisslinux/repo? Following the instructions I'm now stuck on `kiss i
[2023-04-15T02:47:33Z] <RubenD> gnupg1` :|
[2023-04-15T02:48:11Z] <RubenD> saying ```Using su (to become 1000)
[2023-04-15T02:48:11Z] <RubenD> su: unknown user 1000```
[2023-04-15T02:52:39Z] <midfavila> because KISS the distro and KISS the community are distinct and unrelated entities
[2023-04-15T02:53:05Z] <midfavila> the KISS repo is maintained by the KISS community, the KISS site is maintained by KISS BDFL Dylan Araps who afaik is kind of just doing his own thing now
[2023-04-15T02:53:24Z] <midfavila> also holy fuck you guys i just found a way to save like 100$ a month
[2023-04-15T02:53:43Z] <midfavila> apparently i qualify for free telephony and low-cost internet service
[2023-04-15T02:53:55Z] <midfavila> through like, telus or whatever
[2023-04-15T02:58:50Z] <RubenD> "also holy fuck you guys i just found a way to save like 100$ a month" nice (y)
[2023-04-15T03:14:21Z] <drez> imagine having one single slackware install for over 10 years
[2023-04-15T03:14:26Z] <drez> that would be so good
[2023-04-15T03:14:34Z] <midfavila> sounds par for slack
[2023-04-15T03:14:36Z] <drez> starting over now with 15.0 sucks
[2023-04-15T03:14:44Z] <drez> they added all sorts of crap
[2023-04-15T03:42:16Z] <midfavila> god i hate how expensive internet access in canada is >.>;
[2023-04-15T03:42:31Z] <midfavila> even a super basic plan is like 60$+ a month 
[2023-04-15T03:43:31Z] <midfavila> the annoying thing about it is that, like telephony, if you haven't got a connection at home you're fucked
[2023-04-15T03:43:41Z] <midfavila> because it's just assumed to be the default
[2023-04-15T03:43:57Z] <midfavila> and it's like... dude i can't fucking afford this shit because i don't have a job, but i need it to get a job lmao 
[2023-04-15T03:44:09Z] <midfavila> blah
[2023-04-15T04:02:36Z] <testuser[m]> Hi
[2023-04-15T04:31:11Z] <RubenD> love that midfavila, I probably pay the cheapest internet $25/month and I usually get 10MB/sec on ethernet, tho don't get me started on the support weird marketing Comcast does here in Miami Florida
[2023-04-15T04:31:59Z] <midfavila> the annoying thing is that the service is fine
[2023-04-15T04:32:10Z] <midfavila> it's just that, like everything else in my area, there's no affordable option
[2023-04-15T04:32:15Z] <RubenD> Hello back (wave) testuser[m]
[2023-04-15T04:32:34Z] <midfavila> i would trade my 100mbps connection in an instant if it meant i could pay less
[2023-04-15T04:33:08Z] <midfavila> this sort of stuff is why i get pissy about software and web bloat
[2023-04-15T04:33:13Z] <midfavila> at least in par
[2023-04-15T04:33:14Z] <midfavila> part*
[2023-04-15T04:33:20Z] <midfavila> it *literally* costs me money that i don't have
[2023-04-15T04:33:39Z] <midfavila> just so i can fucking... pay bills, look for a job, use email and chat with a couple friends
[2023-04-15T04:33:59Z] <RubenD> Infrastructure companies have monopolies for sure... hey, maybe you could get some Point to Point network devices if you have a willing friend to share their internet that's within 25km
[2023-04-15T04:34:32Z] <midfavila> no point
[2023-04-15T04:34:40Z] <midfavila> i'm working out a plan to bounce the fuck out of this shithole asap
[2023-04-15T04:34:59Z] <midfavila> i'm going to be on the other side of the country in five months if stuff doesn't dramatically improve
[2023-04-15T04:36:24Z] <RubenD> :(  damn, and here I was wishing we could get some longer range stuff see if I could reach you
[2023-04-15T04:37:12Z] <RubenD> I don't mind sharing my internet, fuck em lol, we'll make our own internet :)
[2023-04-15T04:37:38Z] <midfavila> i don't know if PPP equipment would reach New Brunswick from Florida :p 
[2023-04-15T04:38:03Z] <midfavila> nor do i think our respective telecommunications commissions would think highly of encrypted cross-border communication links
[2023-04-15T04:38:59Z] <midfavila> what I'm thinking I'll have to do is cancel my home internet and just use a super cheap unlimited data plan tethered to my router
[2023-04-15T04:39:18Z] <midfavila> but then i get like 27kbaud...
[2023-04-15T04:41:29Z] <RubenD> wow you've thought of everything, you must be nerdier than me, and I'm as nerdy as it gets in my lands, so another variable is different.. older maybe?
[2023-04-15T04:41:38Z] <midfavila> younger
[2023-04-15T04:41:44Z] <RubenD> nah....
[2023-04-15T04:41:50Z] <midfavila> i'm 21 as of last december
[2023-04-15T04:42:24Z] <midfavila> i've had to take care of all of my needs since 13 so i'm kind of used to neurotically planning things 
[2023-04-15T04:42:29Z] <midfavila> that's probably the variable
[2023-04-15T04:42:56Z] <RubenD> yeah... I was very much pampered until I moved out 2 yr ago
[2023-04-15T04:43:08Z] <midfavila> lucky
[2023-04-15T04:43:17Z] <RubenD> still am, just slightly more independent
[2023-04-15T04:43:21Z] <midfavila> i moved out on my own on my thirteenth birthday
[2023-04-15T04:43:29Z] <midfavila> spoken to my parents maybe thrice since then
[2023-04-15T04:44:57Z] <midfavila> the real problem that i'll have on moving is what the fuck i'm going to do with my PC and textbooks
[2023-04-15T04:45:14Z] <midfavila> won't be able to keep anything 
[2023-04-15T04:45:53Z] <RubenD> :| damn
[2023-04-15T04:46:08Z] <midfavila> cross-country moving is like 700$ 
[2023-04-15T04:46:36Z] <midfavila> better to fix my laptop and just carry it and my tablet while i'm nomadic
[2023-04-15T04:46:59Z] <midfavila> plus my library and PC will (hopefully) add a chunk of change to my savings
[2023-04-15T04:47:32Z] <RubenD> damn, u have it rough then my man, you're describing a movie plot right there
[2023-04-15T04:47:39Z] <midfavila> lmao you have no idea
[2023-04-15T04:47:45Z] <midfavila> i'm like a really lame version of Guts
[2023-04-15T04:49:12Z] <RubenD> googles Guts and starts reading the preview of the graphic novel...
[2023-04-15T04:49:19Z] <midfavila> :p 
[2023-04-15T04:49:26Z] <midfavila> berserk is good stuff
[2023-04-15T04:51:32Z] <midfavila> i won't lie though, the prospect of being able to carry everything i need on my back is kind of exhilarating
[2023-04-15T04:51:43Z] <midfavila> the whole early twenties backpacking thing is a trope for a reason i guess
[2023-04-15T04:54:28Z] <RubenD> I've seen the documentaries/movies, it would be amazing tbh, but I'd like to take some interviews of myself and pictures beforehand to document how much I change in just 1 week if I were to do it.
[2023-04-15T04:55:15Z] <midfavila> mmh. if/when i end up setting off i'll have to post about it on my site
[2023-04-15T04:55:27Z] <midfavila> it'd be nice if it was happening under better circumstances though, hah
[2023-04-15T04:55:37Z] <midfavila> i don't even hate-hate my city, it's just shit
[2023-04-15T04:55:54Z] <RubenD> trust me it's the same here in Miami
[2023-04-15T04:56:04Z] <RubenD> no hate-hate but dislike
[2023-04-15T04:56:08Z] <RubenD> for sure
[2023-04-15T04:56:18Z] <midfavila> the worst part about my city is that there's no industry whatsoever
[2023-04-15T04:56:21Z] <midfavila> literally none
[2023-04-15T04:56:39Z] <midfavila> all of the money here comes from government, education, and retirement/tourism
[2023-04-15T04:57:03Z] <midfavila> what few companies in other sectors that do set up shop here have ridiculously high requirements to get a job
[2023-04-15T04:57:26Z] <midfavila> and since i have like, a college degree and a git repo full of poorly-written C and shell scripts as my CV padding... yeah.
[2023-04-15T04:57:35Z] <midfavila> not gonna be getting a webdev job any time soon
[2023-04-15T04:57:50Z] <RubenD> i thought u were describing miami there for a second (not so much education)
[2023-04-15T04:57:58Z] <midfavila> lmao no
[2023-04-15T04:58:24Z] <RubenD> dude you're literally ME
[2023-04-15T04:58:43Z] <RubenD> where's your site lmao?
[2023-04-15T04:59:24Z] <midfavila> http://midfavila.chaosnet.org
[2023-04-15T04:59:25Z] <midfavila> no TLS
[2023-04-15T04:59:29Z] <midfavila> will be moving to gopher soon
[2023-04-15T05:01:10Z] <RubenD> mine -> https://talebox.dev/what.html
[2023-04-15T05:01:19Z] <illiliti> if i were need to pay 60$+ for internet, i would be dead already
[2023-04-15T05:01:39Z] <midfavila> i'm well on my way :D
[2023-04-15T05:01:39Z] <illiliti> 60$ is a half of minimum wage in my region
[2023-04-15T05:03:32Z] <RubenD> midfavila you gotta show me some radio stuff, as an extension of Magical Air Wire electromagetism I always thought it was really cool, but never really dug into it
[2023-04-15T05:04:52Z] <midfavila> rent and basic groceries alone is 86% of full-time minimum wage, if you cheap out on rent
[2023-04-15T05:04:58Z] <midfavila> here, of course
[2023-04-15T05:05:16Z] <midfavila> re: radio, i don't know enough to teach someone else 
[2023-04-15T05:05:35Z] <midfavila> i've been too busy doing the whole not dying thing for the past seven or so years to study much, unfortunately :p
[2023-04-15T05:08:11Z] <RubenD> damn, that's real rough, I won't tell you how easy I have it here then, mine is a crazy special case then :(  . I wish people like you had more time on their hands, same way I do
[2023-04-15T05:08:38Z] <midfavila> honestly i think you have it backwards
[2023-04-15T05:08:51Z] <midfavila> most of the people i know here who are around our age are still living with their parents 
[2023-04-15T05:09:05Z] <midfavila> working part-time, saving up cash and fucking around playing vidya all day
[2023-04-15T05:14:17Z] <RubenD> Let me tell you how easy I have it then: I have a full time job 3k a month (but it's a family, slightly complicated thing in which I don't have to put in much work day to day, think 1hr a day of actually working on company specific things). The other time I spend researching since I've convinced myself, and my dad, they pay me to know stuff (which
[2023-04-15T05:14:17Z] <RubenD> isn't wrong), but I get a lot of leeway/time to read/research (since in our IT team my dad is my "boss"). I really do get consumed by my projects/whetever interest I have at the time and live to get to the bottom of things, maybe i have ADHD? I also started taking adderall the last 6 months or so which has helped with time management a lot, and
[2023-04-15T05:14:18Z] <RubenD> getting me out of my usual patterns.
[2023-04-15T05:14:45Z] <midfavila> maybe you can get me a job :p 
[2023-04-15T05:15:06Z] <midfavila> sounds pretty cushy though
[2023-04-15T05:16:00Z] <RubenD> maybe, honestly they're so intent on hiring someone (without knowing what we want them for) that it kills me how little structure this company has
[2023-04-15T05:16:19Z] <midfavila> i wish that was a problem here lmao
[2023-04-15T05:16:25Z] <RubenD> it's small and very hispanic, so I guess I can't expect much more
[2023-04-15T05:16:40Z] <midfavila> i'm sure things will improve
[2023-04-15T05:16:55Z] <midfavila> worst case you work for a couple years then move into an intermediate position at another company
[2023-04-15T05:16:56Z] * midfavila shrugs
[2023-04-15T05:17:30Z] <midfavila> ...FUCK I JUST REALIZED-
[2023-04-15T05:17:36Z] <midfavila> i'm going to need to get rid of my model M when I move ;w;
[2023-04-15T05:17:44Z] <midfavila> aaa I think that's what I'm most upset about
[2023-04-15T05:20:54Z] <RubenD> lol, what did you think of https://talebox.dev/ ? I read your entire website, me feedback:
[2023-04-15T05:20:54Z] <RubenD> I literally returned 3 4tb SAS drives today because it sounded like a pain to set them up, didn't realize they had a different interface.
[2023-04-15T05:20:55Z] <RubenD> No but seriously, I like how KISS it is, I wanna make a personal website myself like that. I wanna finally finish a project instead of hopping on and off things, really think Talebox is where it's at.
[2023-04-15T05:22:25Z] <midfavila> oh, sorry, i didn't look at it
[2023-04-15T05:22:28Z] <midfavila> i'm a little busy right now
[2023-04-15T05:22:30Z] <midfavila> i'll peek though
[2023-04-15T05:22:58Z] <RubenD> TLS is not really needed for your website, it would probably just take server CPU for no reason lol
[2023-04-15T05:23:08Z] <midfavila> that's what I keep telling people
[2023-04-15T05:23:18Z] <midfavila> read-only content doesn't require TLS
[2023-04-15T05:23:31Z] <midfavila> if someone intercepts my blog post on the way to your computer, literally nothing of value has been lost
[2023-04-15T05:23:42Z] <midfavila> better to minimize the complexity of the tech stack and the load on machines on both sides
[2023-04-15T05:23:51Z] <midfavila> also
[2023-04-15T05:23:52Z] <midfavila> >rust
[2023-04-15T05:24:00Z] <midfavila> >webapp
[2023-04-15T05:24:02Z] <midfavila> you lost me, sorry
[2023-04-15T05:26:26Z] <RubenD> i wanna see if you get the point of it lol, don't wanna give you hints (because then you can't un-know it, doom of knowledge and whatever..)
[2023-04-15T05:26:55Z] <RubenD> those terms aren't relevant to you using it tbh
[2023-04-15T05:27:01Z] <midfavila> well, going off of what renders in my text browser, it just looks like a personal-cloud-in-a-box
[2023-04-15T05:27:06Z] <midfavila> first glance anyway
[2023-04-15T05:27:18Z] <midfavila> i don't really believe in self-hosting 
[2023-04-15T05:27:25Z] <midfavila> so i'm not the target for this sort of tech
[2023-04-15T05:27:39Z] <RubenD> why not?
[2023-04-15T05:27:50Z] <RubenD> I would think anyone would
[2023-04-15T05:28:07Z] <midfavila> the only technology that can be reliably and reasonably self-hosted in my opinion is stuff of little to no value
[2023-04-15T05:28:12Z] <midfavila> for example, self-hosting e-mail
[2023-04-15T05:28:28Z] <midfavila> what if you lose power and/or a config error happens and/or a disaster occurs, etc
[2023-04-15T05:28:32Z] <midfavila> there's no redundancy 
[2023-04-15T05:29:02Z] <midfavila> not to mention if you want to use "privacy-respecting" things like invidious without making the instance public, you're missing the point
[2023-04-15T05:29:20Z] <midfavila> since that stuff works in part by making all traffic look like it comes through a single point
[2023-04-15T05:29:26Z] <midfavila> basically tumbles requests
[2023-04-15T05:29:45Z] <midfavila> for stuff that *can* be reasonably self-hosted, webservers are an example
[2023-04-15T05:29:54Z] <midfavila> you don't gain much by self-hosting
[2023-04-15T05:30:15Z] <midfavila> it's like... okay, cool, so you can run your homepage on your raspberry pi. great. 
[2023-04-15T05:31:31Z] <RubenD> it's basically that tbh... maybe I shouldn't have minded with making it multi-threaded :| if it really is self hosted and whatnot
[2023-04-15T05:31:50Z] <midfavila> to be clear it's a cool project and something i considered a while back
[2023-04-15T05:31:59Z] <midfavila> but practically speaking i don't think self-hosting is viable
[2023-04-15T05:32:56Z] <RubenD> what I currenly have is 1. Chunk (Notes app with sharing between users) 2. Authentication 3. Media (automatically converts pics/videos to optimized size/quality format for viewing on different screens, or storage)
[2023-04-15T05:34:00Z] <RubenD> :| sad I thought me idea was cool enough to spark the brightest of minds (like yours), to be fair the site isn't optimized for text browsers, but for something like Firefox
[2023-04-15T05:34:48Z] <midfavila> i appreciate the flattery, but I'm kind of a neo-luddite :p 
[2023-04-15T05:34:59Z] <midfavila> you'd get a much better response from almost anyone else, but i'm aggressively anti-web-anything
[2023-04-15T05:35:23Z] <midfavila> one of my big goals right now is getting rid of my main web browser entirely
[2023-04-15T05:36:36Z] <illiliti> self-hosting is more resistant against seizure
[2023-04-15T05:36:42Z] <drez> seizure?
[2023-04-15T05:36:46Z] <midfavila> lmao no
[2023-04-15T05:36:51Z] <illiliti> yes, by police for example
[2023-04-15T05:36:58Z] <midfavila> if the feds actually want your shit and you've got your server in your closet you're fucked
[2023-04-15T05:36:58Z] <drez> oh o kay
[2023-04-15T05:37:05Z] <drez> i thought you meant that
[2023-04-15T05:37:15Z] <midfavila> and no, self-hosting isn't dumping your crap on some VM somewhere
[2023-04-15T05:37:36Z] <drez> self hosting is really easy if you dont connect to the internet
[2023-04-15T05:38:02Z] <drez> otherwise you need to be really rich 
[2023-04-15T05:38:05Z] <illiliti> midfavila: kill switch
[2023-04-15T05:38:18Z] <midfavila> that's cool and all but you've still lost all your hardware
[2023-04-15T05:38:23Z] <midfavila> that shit costs money
[2023-04-15T05:38:25Z] <drez> selfhosting on the internet properly is so expensive
[2023-04-15T05:38:44Z] <midfavila> joining a computing org is the best middleground
[2023-04-15T05:39:31Z] <illiliti> selfhosting is not expensive if reliability is not a concern
[2023-04-15T05:40:35Z] <RubenD> midfavila it even turns and everything: https://pasteboard.co/RF4pHX81napm.png
[2023-04-15T05:40:50Z] <midfavila> okay but
[2023-04-15T05:40:58Z] <midfavila> if you don't host reliably you don't fucking
[2023-04-15T05:41:00Z] <midfavila> get anything out of it
[2023-04-15T05:41:09Z] <drez> well you kind of do
[2023-04-15T05:41:10Z] <drez> for a while
[2023-04-15T05:41:15Z] <midfavila> no
[2023-04-15T05:41:16Z] <midfavila> you don't
[2023-04-15T05:41:19Z] <midfavila> because it's *not reliable*
[2023-04-15T05:41:24Z] <midfavila> which means you can't host anything important
[2023-04-15T05:41:27Z] <drez> you do until it fails you because it isn't reliable
[2023-04-15T05:41:30Z] <midfavila> which means all you can do is gimmicky bullshit
[2023-04-15T05:41:36Z] <midfavila> okay but you're missing the point
[2023-04-15T05:41:45Z] <drez> oh of course you want it to be reliable
[2023-04-15T05:41:47Z] <midfavila> the point is that if it's not reliable it might as well not be there because...... you can't rely on it
[2023-04-15T05:41:50Z] <midfavila> it's not a want
[2023-04-15T05:41:51Z] <midfavila> it's a need
[2023-04-15T05:41:54Z] <drez> well, i wouldnt want to join sdf because its in 5 eyes anyways
[2023-04-15T05:42:04Z] <midfavila> unreliable networking services are *only* useful for trivial crap
[2023-04-15T05:42:16Z] <midfavila> like, by definition
[2023-04-15T05:43:05Z] <illiliti> i wanna host pdf of top secret document on my server
[2023-04-15T05:43:20Z] <drez> just download it to your computer and torrent it
[2023-04-15T05:43:30Z] <drez> seed it for as long as you can
[2023-04-15T05:43:34Z] <illiliti> if i were to host it on cloud, policy can take down it easily through admin or by force
[2023-04-15T05:43:40Z] <drez> chances are if what you seeded is interesting enough
[2023-04-15T05:43:43Z] <drez> if you delete it from your pc
[2023-04-15T05:43:46Z] <drez> sell everything you have
[2023-04-15T05:43:47Z] <midfavila> which is why you do that shit on a darknet
[2023-04-15T05:43:48Z] <drez> get a new laptop
[2023-04-15T05:43:48Z] <midfavila> duh
[2023-04-15T05:43:57Z] <midfavila> drez, that's stupid
[2023-04-15T05:44:00Z] <RubenD> well, the point of programming in Rust is it lierally almost never crashes :| see, reliable :)
[2023-04-15T05:44:01Z] <drez> then you try and hunt the torrenta gain
[2023-04-15T05:44:03Z] <drez> and it still works
[2023-04-15T05:44:12Z] <midfavila> use shred or a low-level format utility
[2023-04-15T05:44:14Z] <drez> because other people cared about it and now you are downloading it again
[2023-04-15T05:44:26Z] <RubenD> this is probably the most active day kisslinux has had in a while
[2023-04-15T05:44:27Z] <drez> midfavila, no im just saying that if you wanna host cool files then use p2p
[2023-04-15T05:44:27Z] <midfavila> RubenD: i would sooner use lisp
[2023-04-15T05:44:42Z] <drez> >well, the point of programming in Rust is it lierally almost never crashes :| see, reliable :)  | reliable until you can't build it :D
[2023-04-15T05:44:47Z] <midfavila> i vehemently disagree with rust on a philosophical level 
[2023-04-15T05:44:56Z] <midfavila> you cannot solve human problems adequately with technical solutions
[2023-04-15T05:45:12Z] <midfavila> it is only through the refinement of technique and craft that one can become a better craftsman
[2023-04-15T05:45:15Z] <drez> rust is like transhumanism 
[2023-04-15T05:45:24Z] <RubenD> lmao
[2023-04-15T05:45:31Z] <RubenD> i could see that lmao
[2023-04-15T05:45:37Z] <midfavila> rust is to transhumanism as a peg leg is to a cyborg leg
[2023-04-15T05:45:47Z] <RubenD> you guys play too much Rimworld
[2023-04-15T05:45:47Z] <drez> which is all transhumanism is
[2023-04-15T05:45:47Z] <midfavila> or like, a crutch is to a cyborg leg
[2023-04-15T05:47:21Z] <midfavila> going to need to send dues to SDF before I head off, now that I think of it...
[2023-04-15T05:47:34Z] <RubenD> I actually gave up Rust a couple of years back because it would take so fing long to build. But now build time is one of their compiler metrics and it's gotten much better now
[2023-04-15T05:47:44Z] <midfavila> okay but they still don't have a spec
[2023-04-15T05:47:48Z] <midfavila> and they still use the MPL
[2023-04-15T05:47:55Z] <midfavila> and they still only target like three OSes and ISAs
[2023-04-15T05:48:05Z] <midfavila> and they still make breaking changes like every release
[2023-04-15T05:48:12Z] <midfavila> and it's still slower than C unless you give up safety
[2023-04-15T05:48:22Z] <illiliti> what's wrong with mpl
[2023-04-15T05:48:27Z] <RubenD> does it have anything good?
[2023-04-15T05:48:37Z] <midfavila> it's good at catching lazy mistakes
[2023-04-15T05:48:39Z] <midfavila> i guess
[2023-04-15T05:48:54Z] <midfavila> illiliti: copyright over name/logo/branding/etc that's overly restrictive
[2023-04-15T05:49:30Z] <illiliti> that's irrelevent to mpl afaik
[2023-04-15T05:49:52Z] <midfavila> afaik it's very much not
[2023-04-15T05:50:00Z] <illiliti> because copyright is law
[2023-04-15T05:50:06Z] <illiliti> not some license
[2023-04-15T05:50:16Z] <midfavila> ...it's a license that gives you rights under copyright.
[2023-04-15T05:50:24Z] <midfavila> it's... you know what, i've had a long day
[2023-04-15T05:50:27Z] <midfavila> i can't do this right now
[2023-04-15T05:50:38Z] <midfavila> rust is bad
[2023-04-15T05:50:43Z] <midfavila> source: my uncle that works at nintendo
[2023-04-15T05:50:48Z] <midfavila> no i will not fact check anything
[2023-04-15T05:50:49Z] <midfavila> fuck you
[2023-04-15T05:50:53Z] <midfavila> >:c
[2023-04-15T05:51:48Z] <RubenD> mhm... the main reason I took up rust is that in a slightly larger codebase than a couple of c/c++ files in which you're using heap, you don't have to read up on every line and be a magician to catch a memory error. And std library is just a runtime solution for that :|
[2023-04-15T05:52:04Z] <RubenD> on c/c++ i mean
[2023-04-15T05:52:06Z] <midfavila> you could also just use a garbage collector
[2023-04-15T05:52:35Z] <RubenD> rust doesn't have that, all that work happens at compile time with the borrow checker
[2023-04-15T05:52:38Z] <illiliti> gc sucks men
[2023-04-15T05:52:46Z] <midfavila> C has a GC in the form of the Boehm library
[2023-04-15T05:52:47Z] <RubenD> lmao
[2023-04-15T05:52:51Z] <midfavila> illiliti: stfu nerd
[2023-04-15T05:52:57Z] <midfavila> GC is fine for applications programming
[2023-04-15T05:52:58Z] <illiliti> even with gc, you still can have memory leaks
[2023-04-15T05:53:07Z] <drez> c gc is very convenient
[2023-04-15T05:53:19Z] <midfavila> anyway this is where i pull out muh functional programming and muh best practices
[2023-04-15T05:53:38Z] <midfavila> aka "just don't have problems bro"
[2023-04-15T05:53:56Z] <RubenD> lmao world don't work that way lmao
[2023-04-15T05:54:15Z] <midfavila> maybe.
[2023-04-15T05:54:40Z] <RubenD> I wish i had a slighly better compiler when I was stuck for a week debugging an arduino shitty error where it was implicitly converting from a u64 to a u32
[2023-04-15T05:54:44Z] <midfavila> appeals to the "real world" won't work on me though
[2023-04-15T05:54:53Z] <midfavila> ouch
[2023-04-15T05:54:55Z] <midfavila> sounds like fun
[2023-04-15T05:55:43Z] <RubenD> rust tries to do as much as it can before while it's building the thing so when it runs, it's practically magic
[2023-04-15T05:56:02Z] * midfavila shrugs
[2023-04-15T05:56:07Z] <midfavila> i'm happy with C and Scheme
[2023-04-15T05:56:09Z] <RubenD> at least that was it's appeal to me, and still is, reliability is a big one
[2023-04-15T05:56:45Z] <midfavila> i'd rather focus on improving my ability to apply formal methods to software development than restrict myself to a particular ecosystem, even if it's less practical or whatever
[2023-04-15T05:56:48Z] <RubenD> looking up scheme...
[2023-04-15T05:57:29Z] <midfavila> extremely simple and extremely flexible dialect of lisp
[2023-04-15T05:57:56Z] <midfavila> there are dialects that can be compiled to machine code with performance comparable to traditionally compiled languages as well
[2023-04-15T05:58:03Z] <midfavila> although these are currently defunct to my knowledge
[2023-04-15T05:58:11Z] <midfavila> i usually point to ORBIT or T
[2023-04-15T05:58:21Z] <midfavila> i think PreScheme can pull that trick off too
[2023-04-15T05:58:42Z] <midfavila> once R7RSL gets pushed out the door things will improve dramatically
[2023-04-15T06:00:06Z] <illiliti> RubenD: quick question: talebox is alternative to nextcloud in rust?
[2023-04-15T06:02:05Z] <RubenD> illiliti not really, it's main appeal was "why do I have to use Keep to keep my notes in Google's servers when a Notes app is so freaking simple to build", I'm sure there are plenty of foss alternatives but I went for building my own at the time
[2023-04-15T06:02:33Z] <drez> >lmao world don't work that way lmao >maybe. | do you know midfavila?
[2023-04-15T06:02:38Z] <illiliti> oh ok
[2023-04-15T06:02:51Z] <drez> midfavila, like, do you know?
[2023-04-15T06:03:10Z] <RubenD> it's a collection of shit that should exist because it's simple to do, but doesn't :| , or I didn't think did at the time
[2023-04-15T06:03:34Z] <midfavila> doesn't matter what i do or don't know. i'm just going to keep working on improving myself and my situation, because that's all i can do
[2023-04-15T06:03:38Z] <midfavila> if it turns out i'm wrong, so be it
[2023-04-15T06:03:53Z] <midfavila> but as i said i won't be swayed by appeals to the real world
[2023-04-15T06:04:02Z] <drez> thats perfect
[2023-04-15T06:04:08Z] <midfavila> something something it's no measure of health to be well-adjusted to a profoundly sick society something something
[2023-04-15T06:04:08Z] <drez> you know
[2023-04-15T06:04:18Z] <drez> in any case, there are lot of perspectives on what the real world is
[2023-04-15T06:04:22Z] <drez> so
[2023-04-15T06:04:27Z] <drez> what does that say about the real world?
[2023-04-15T06:04:29Z] <midfavila> which is why the real world doesn't matter
[2023-04-15T06:04:34Z] <midfavila> because it doesn't actually exist
[2023-04-15T06:04:38Z] <drez> the real world is probably just whatever you think it is
[2023-04-15T06:04:49Z] <RubenD> oh shit you guys caught me
[2023-04-15T06:04:53Z] <midfavila> that's right
[2023-04-15T06:04:54Z] <midfavila> get blasted nerd
[2023-04-15T06:05:18Z] <RubenD> :| it was so naughty of me to say such nasty generalizations
[2023-04-15T06:05:23Z] <midfavila> it was
[2023-04-15T06:05:32Z] <midfavila> now go sit on the stairs and think of what you've done
[2023-04-15T06:05:49Z] <RubenD> yes dad???
[2023-04-15T06:05:56Z] <midfavila> good boy
[2023-04-15T06:06:16Z] <drez> ._.
[2023-04-15T06:06:40Z] <midfavila> did you expect me to respond with something else at this point, drez?
[2023-04-15T06:06:50Z] <drez> no, nope
[2023-04-15T06:06:59Z] <drez> i guess i will just say one more thing
[2023-04-15T06:07:06Z] <drez> i love your attitude
[2023-04-15T06:07:24Z] <midfavila> mfw can't tell if this is sarcasm
[2023-04-15T06:07:33Z] <drez> i really do mean it
[2023-04-15T06:07:43Z] <drez> your attitude towards the (((real world)))
[2023-04-15T06:07:53Z] <midfavila> ah, yes
[2023-04-15T06:08:12Z] <midfavila> my unaplogetic autismophrenia 
[2023-04-15T06:08:25Z] <midfavila> i have honed it over the course of many years
[2023-04-15T06:08:28Z] <drez> better than just succumbing to everything
[2023-04-15T06:08:51Z] <drez> when people say 'cattle' it is incredible how literate that is
[2023-04-15T06:09:39Z] <drez> i think nobody deserves to feel shame for that attitude
[2023-04-15T06:10:11Z] <midfavila> for better or worse society disagrees
[2023-04-15T06:10:42Z] <illiliti> > curl --proto '=https' --tlsv1.2 -sSf https://talebox.dev/standalone.sh | sh
[2023-04-15T06:10:43Z] <drez> yea and you have no reason to disagree with yourself
[2023-04-15T06:10:44Z] <illiliti> so bad
[2023-04-15T06:11:20Z] <drez> what does that do
[2023-04-15T06:11:23Z] <RubenD> what's bad? illiliti
[2023-04-15T06:11:28Z] <drez> does that download the site to my computer?
[2023-04-15T06:11:34Z] <midfavila> dumps data directly from the site into a shell
[2023-04-15T06:11:38Z] <illiliti> curl ... | sh
[2023-04-15T06:11:43Z] <illiliti> that's what bad
[2023-04-15T06:11:47Z] <drez> why :(
[2023-04-15T06:11:49Z] <midfavila> that encourages really bad practices on the part of the user
[2023-04-15T06:11:55Z] <drez> well ok
[2023-04-15T06:11:56Z] <drez> do this instead
[2023-04-15T06:11:57Z] <midfavila> ...then again, no worse than what they already do
[2023-04-15T06:11:58Z] <drez> $(curl)
[2023-04-15T06:12:02Z] <drez> noooo not curl
[2023-04-15T06:12:04Z] <drez> ok $(axel)
[2023-04-15T06:12:11Z] <drez> is there an environment variable for downloaders?
[2023-04-15T06:12:16Z] <midfavila> KISS_DL
[2023-04-15T06:12:19Z] <drez> okay
[2023-04-15T06:12:25Z] <drez> $($KISS_DL [...])
[2023-04-15T06:12:31Z] <illiliti> because it silently does some magic under the hood that you have no idea of
[2023-04-15T06:12:40Z] <drez> lots of tildes do that
[2023-04-15T06:12:44Z] <drez> namely hashbang.sh
[2023-04-15T06:12:44Z] <midfavila> no different from anything else on modern computers
[2023-04-15T06:12:46Z] <drez> and hashbang.sh
[2023-04-15T06:12:48Z] <drez> and also hashbang.sh
[2023-04-15T06:12:59Z] <drez> did i mention hashbang.sh
[2023-04-15T06:13:07Z] <midfavila> not that that excuses it but getting your programming socks in a twist over curl|sh is kind of absurd
[2023-04-15T06:13:09Z] <RubenD> yeah true... :| if i wanted it to truly work with 1 command I had to do that :|
[2023-04-15T06:13:25Z] <illiliti> proper way to install software is through package manager, not curl | sh
[2023-04-15T06:13:32Z] <drez> muh
[2023-04-15T06:13:35Z] <drez> this just runs a couple of things
[2023-04-15T06:14:01Z] <midfavila> it's a shell script. they do that
[2023-04-15T06:14:02Z] <midfavila> :p 
[2023-04-15T06:14:10Z] <RubenD> lmao
[2023-04-15T06:14:21Z] <midfavila> "this C program just calls a few functions!"
[2023-04-15T06:14:25Z] <drez> yeha of course
[2023-04-15T06:14:29Z] <drez> your computer is running code man
[2023-04-15T06:14:31Z] <drez> whats the spooky part
[2023-04-15T06:15:05Z] <RubenD> now that it's public with a couple of hackers, plz take down my site and do weird shit to my server (reverse psychology here)
[2023-04-15T06:15:26Z] <midfavila> idk how many people here are "hackers"
[2023-04-15T06:15:55Z] <illiliti> depends on what you mean by "hacker"
[2023-04-15T06:16:05Z] <drez> haggurman
[2023-04-15T06:17:10Z] <RubenD> well... if you were able to install kiss linux you're hackers in my book, if you know enough people will fear you and call you names I guess
[2023-04-15T06:17:16Z] <illiliti> https://stallman.org/articles/on-hacking.html
[2023-04-15T06:18:06Z] <RubenD> it's society's way of bullying us (I'm including myself SO PROUD :) )
[2023-04-15T06:22:56Z] <RubenD> it's crazy that the definition I have is the one the media gives :| , well, not that crazy really if we're assuming Apple has shapples (sheeps + apples)
[2023-04-15T06:30:02Z] <drez> rhymes with shackles
[2023-04-15T06:30:09Z] <midfavila> unrelated
[2023-04-15T06:30:17Z] <drez> wait really?
[2023-04-15T06:30:27Z] <midfavila> how much would you guys pay for a low-capacity SAS SLC drive from samsung
[2023-04-15T06:30:31Z] <midfavila> like 200gb
[2023-04-15T06:30:35Z] <drez> oh hm
[2023-04-15T06:30:37Z] <midfavila> in good condition
[2023-04-15T06:30:48Z] <drez> SAS though?
[2023-04-15T06:30:50Z] <drez> well jeez
[2023-04-15T06:30:51Z] <midfavila> yes
[2023-04-15T06:30:57Z] <drez> definitely no more than $100
[2023-04-15T06:31:06Z] <drez> not delusional im sure
[2023-04-15T06:31:26Z] <midfavila> no that's fair
[2023-04-15T06:31:30Z] <midfavila> kind of around what i was thinking
[2023-04-15T06:31:37Z] <midfavila> just trying to price out what i'm going to sell my workstation for
[2023-04-15T06:31:41Z] <drez> :(
[2023-04-15T06:31:48Z] <midfavila> i want to get around 3k
[2023-04-15T06:31:51Z] <drez> wait true you're gonna sell it
[2023-04-15T06:31:58Z] <midfavila> yes, i'm serious 
[2023-04-15T06:32:09Z] <drez> oh man if I had the money...
[2023-04-15T06:32:10Z] <midfavila> if i have to move, i won't be able to pay a moving company, so i'll only be able to keep what i can carry
[2023-04-15T06:32:38Z] <midfavila> going to need to put up a bunch of fliers around the city advertising a yard sale 
[2023-04-15T06:33:17Z] <drez> what are you gonna do about the displays?
[2023-04-15T06:33:21Z] <midfavila> also sell them
[2023-04-15T06:33:25Z] <drez> no wa
[2023-04-15T06:33:26Z] <drez> y
[2023-04-15T06:33:31Z] <drez> for how much?
[2023-04-15T06:33:34Z] <midfavila> i can't exactly carry them
[2023-04-15T06:33:39Z] <midfavila> idk 250-300 cad would be ideal
[2023-04-15T06:33:43Z] <midfavila> per
[2023-04-15T06:33:47Z] <midfavila> since they're still in good condition
[2023-04-15T06:33:53Z] <drez> hey now, you're trying to snow someone?
[2023-04-15T06:34:01Z] <midfavila> ...what?
[2023-04-15T06:35:13Z] <drez> nvm
[2023-04-15T06:35:43Z] <midfavila> anyway the only things i'll be hard-pressed to part with regarding my setup are my keyboard and trackball
[2023-04-15T06:35:50Z] <midfavila> otherwise i'm willing to work something out
[2023-04-15T06:36:08Z] <midfavila> i don't mind selling piecemeal either
[2023-04-15T06:37:17Z] <midfavila> god pc part picker is so fucking useless
[2023-04-15T06:37:27Z] <midfavila> literally the only parts in their db are epig gaymurr components
[2023-04-15T06:37:50Z] <drez> everything else has empty information
[2023-04-15T06:40:08Z] <RubenD> holy cow, i just looked at the monitors
[2023-04-15T06:40:21Z] <RubenD> its 125W per monitor?
[2023-04-15T06:40:27Z] <midfavila> yes
[2023-04-15T06:40:36Z] <RubenD> how much electric you pay for that thing?
[2023-04-15T06:40:42Z] <midfavila> i don't pay utilities
[2023-04-15T06:40:50Z] <midfavila> anyway i'm pretty sure these have a low-power mode
[2023-04-15T06:40:52Z] <midfavila> let me check
[2023-04-15T06:41:15Z] <RubenD> it's fine I'm not interested in getting it, just googling for the fun of it
[2023-04-15T06:41:18Z] <midfavila> there are in fact power save options
[2023-04-15T06:41:21Z] <midfavila> and yeah i figured
[2023-04-15T06:41:21Z] <RubenD> ah
[2023-04-15T06:42:04Z] <midfavila> yeah rn estimates from pcpartpicker put the whole setup not counting desk printer etc at ~3.5k 
[2023-04-15T06:42:18Z] <midfavila> most of that is the motherboard, chassic and displays...
[2023-04-15T06:42:49Z] <RubenD> I literally took off my pc's GPU since everything + monitor was using 130W and now it's using <40w iddle, so GPU was a huge hog
[2023-04-15T06:43:16Z] <midfavila> modern GPUs are pretty beefy yeah
[2023-04-15T06:43:17Z] <RubenD> I wasn't using it, plus games I play still fly with the CPU's gpu
[2023-04-15T06:43:19Z] <midfavila> mine is 75w
[2023-04-15T06:43:25Z] <midfavila> so no need for extra cables 
[2023-04-15T06:46:20Z] <RubenD> that's an amazing setup tho, should sell it to someone who wants something beefy. Tho idk why go for such crazy components when you only need something low power, if you're running Kiss Linux etc...
[2023-04-15T06:47:03Z] <midfavila> i run a lot of VMs
[2023-04-15T06:47:20Z] <midfavila> also not having to wait ten years to compile llvm and mesa is nice
[2023-04-15T06:47:43Z] <midfavila> my next setup is going to be much more humber
[2023-04-15T06:47:46Z] <midfavila> ...humble
[2023-04-15T06:47:51Z] <midfavila> i need to sleep god
[2023-04-15T06:48:05Z] <midfavila> 0300
[2023-04-15T06:48:23Z] <RubenD> yeah, I'm eating some spaguetty I was hungry
[2023-04-15T06:49:05Z] <RubenD> i'm sleepy too, see ya another time haha :)  it was nice talking to you midfavila, illiliti too
[2023-04-15T06:49:12Z] <midfavila> see you
[2023-04-15T06:49:29Z] <RubenD> thanks for the warm, nerdy welcome
[2023-04-15T06:49:34Z] <RubenD> XD
[2023-04-15T06:49:55Z] <midfavila> ye
[2023-04-15T09:58:09Z] <sewn> HU
[2023-04-15T09:58:27Z] <oak[m]> hi
[2023-04-15T13:33:27Z] <testuser[m]> https://codeberg.org/kiss-community/maintainer-utils 
[2023-04-15T14:56:20Z] <sewn> so good
[2023-04-15T15:37:06Z] <midfavila> https://sourceforge.net/projects/nut/
[2023-04-15T15:37:10Z] <midfavila> you guys might benefit from this
[2023-04-15T15:37:15Z] <midfavila> maybe
[2023-04-15T15:37:16Z] <midfavila> idk
[2023-04-15T15:54:33Z] <sad_plan> what are you implyeing here mid? :P
[2023-04-15T15:55:03Z] <midfavila> that being able to locally store and analyze all of your foods using exclusively free software is really cool and helpful for maintaining good health
[2023-04-15T15:55:15Z] <midfavila> and also that you're all fat out of shape nerds who need to stop staring at compiler logs >:C
[2023-04-15T15:55:21Z] <midfavila> obviously
[2023-04-15T15:58:28Z] <sad_plan> let me compile this delicious cake and have a stroke because of it in peace
[2023-04-15T15:58:43Z] <sad_plan> I am in fact eating cake right now though. which was a tad bit funny
[2023-04-15T15:59:07Z] <midfavila> i fucking knew it
[2023-04-15T15:59:10Z] <midfavila> put that down and pick up a pear
[2023-04-15T15:59:28Z] <midfavila> ...tbf i can't criticize you too much, i made biscuits for breakfast
[2023-04-15T16:00:30Z] <sad_plan> I dont really like pears all that much
[2023-04-15T16:00:39Z] <sad_plan> busted
[2023-04-15T16:00:42Z] <midfavila> then I don't really like YOU all that much, you mongoloid
[2023-04-15T16:00:51Z] <midfavila> shit taste in fruit
[2023-04-15T16:00:58Z] <midfavila> i bet you don't like apricots either
[2023-04-15T16:01:18Z] <sad_plan> 1 points to you my friend
[2023-04-15T16:01:26Z] <midfavila> you disgust me
[2023-04-15T16:01:27Z] <sad_plan> s/1/10
[2023-04-15T16:01:27Z] <midfavila> >:C
[2023-04-15T16:01:41Z] <sad_plan> i like apples though
[2023-04-15T16:01:54Z] <midfavila> apples are literally the pumpkin spice of fruit
[2023-04-15T16:01:59Z] <midfavila> everyone likes apples
[2023-04-15T16:02:04Z] <sad_plan> but thats about it
[2023-04-15T16:02:04Z] <midfavila> if you say you don't you're a liar
[2023-04-15T16:02:07Z] <sad_plan> ikr
[2023-04-15T16:02:09Z] <midfavila> dude what the fuck
[2023-04-15T16:02:17Z] <midfavila> you don't like apricots or kiwis or pears or grapes or anything?
[2023-04-15T16:02:22Z] <sad_plan> nope
[2023-04-15T16:02:24Z] <midfavila> not even blueberries? 
[2023-04-15T16:02:29Z] <sad_plan> im a picky eater
[2023-04-15T16:02:32Z] <sad_plan> no
[2023-04-15T16:02:36Z] <midfavila> or raspberries, or tomatoes, or bananas?
[2023-04-15T16:02:46Z] <midfavila> what about pumpkin?
[2023-04-15T16:02:46Z] <sad_plan> rasberries bearly\
[2023-04-15T16:02:48Z] <sad_plan> no
[2023-04-15T16:02:52Z] <midfavila> my god
[2023-04-15T16:03:07Z] <midfavila> (i will say I don't like blueberries)
[2023-04-15T16:03:11Z] <midfavila> (they're way too sweet)
[2023-04-15T16:03:18Z] <midfavila> (apricot has a nice, mild taste)
[2023-04-15T16:06:24Z] <sad_plan> right. Im not really a huge fan of things that grows on trees/bushes, or swims in water
[2023-04-15T16:06:43Z] <midfavila> brutal
[2023-04-15T16:06:46Z] <midfavila> that's like half my diet
[2023-04-15T16:06:53Z] <sad_plan> which Im sure is a pitty on my end, as Im missing out on so much good food
[2023-04-15T16:06:58Z] <midfavila> you really are
[2023-04-15T16:07:09Z] <midfavila> salmon is great when cooked properly
[2023-04-15T16:07:15Z] <sad_plan> I have gotten better though. I was absolutely horrible as a kid
[2023-04-15T16:07:26Z] <midfavila> scallops are literally to die for, too
[2023-04-15T16:07:33Z] <midfavila> i could eat scallops every day
[2023-04-15T16:07:36Z] <sad_plan> now I usually at the very least taste stuff. when I was a kid, Ive already made up my mind that I did not like said food
[2023-04-15T16:07:43Z] * midfavila nods
[2023-04-15T16:08:09Z] <sad_plan> arent scallops expensive as heck?
[2023-04-15T16:08:17Z] <midfavila> depends on where you get them
[2023-04-15T16:08:26Z] <sad_plan> convinient store?
[2023-04-15T16:08:29Z] <midfavila> you can get bags of frozen scallops by the kilo for pretty cheap
[2023-04-15T16:08:31Z] <midfavila> jesus no lmao
[2023-04-15T16:08:36Z] <midfavila> what do you think convenience stores here stock?
[2023-04-15T16:08:44Z] <sad_plan> ikd, food?
[2023-04-15T16:08:51Z] <midfavila> it's like, flour, eggs, milk, bacon, bread, and maybe canned ham
[2023-04-15T16:09:03Z] <sad_plan> so I was right
[2023-04-15T16:09:12Z] <midfavila> you were way off in terms of the sort of food stocked :p 
[2023-04-15T16:09:19Z] <midfavila> i've never seen a single convenience store that stocks seafood
[2023-04-15T16:09:45Z] <midfavila> usually it's essentials and stuff that doesn't go bad without refrigeration 
[2023-04-15T16:10:34Z] <sad_plan> where Im from, they do. not like exclusive stuff, but you know, regular stuff, milk, honey, eggs, bacon, different kinds of dinner etc
[2023-04-15T16:10:58Z] <midfavila> dude wild
[2023-04-15T16:10:58Z] <sad_plan> the term for the store could also get lost in translation here aswell.
[2023-04-15T16:11:07Z] <midfavila> are you not talking about a general store?
[2023-04-15T16:11:10Z] <sad_plan> directly translated its called food store
[2023-04-15T16:11:12Z] <midfavila> oh
[2023-04-15T16:11:15Z] <midfavila> that's just a grocery 
[2023-04-15T16:11:19Z] <midfavila> groceries would have all that stuff
[2023-04-15T16:11:20Z] <sad_plan> yeah that may be more the right name
[2023-04-15T16:11:27Z] <midfavila> convenience stores here are a different thing
[2023-04-15T16:11:32Z] <midfavila> usually they're attached to gas stations
[2023-04-15T16:11:35Z] <sad_plan> then I stand corrected
[2023-04-15T16:11:39Z] <sad_plan> aah
[2023-04-15T16:11:41Z] <midfavila> really small places with exclusively the basics
[2023-04-15T16:11:45Z] <midfavila> idea is that if you're like
[2023-04-15T16:11:45Z] <sad_plan> like a kioks almost
[2023-04-15T16:11:48Z] <sad_plan> kiosk
[2023-04-15T16:11:52Z] <midfavila> eeeeeeeeeh not quite
[2023-04-15T16:11:56Z] <midfavila> they're like, full fledged buildings
[2023-04-15T16:11:59Z] <sad_plan> wait, no, theyre way smaller over there
[2023-04-15T16:12:02Z] <midfavila> they just have really limited selection 
[2023-04-15T16:12:06Z] <midfavila> and stupid-high prices
[2023-04-15T16:12:10Z] <sad_plan> yeah
[2023-04-15T16:12:36Z] <midfavila> the idea is that if you're cooking at 0300 and literally nothing else is open and you need milk, you can just walk down, grab that, and call it a day 
[2023-04-15T16:12:53Z] <midfavila> or if you're travelling and you need to get some basic stuff to tide you over until the next city, you can get that
[2023-04-15T16:12:54Z] <midfavila> etc
[2023-04-15T16:13:02Z] <midfavila> some of them have showers and stuff too
[2023-04-15T16:13:08Z] <midfavila> although that's usually only on highways
[2023-04-15T16:13:27Z] <midfavila> those ones are also usually attached to blue canoe eateries, which market really hard to nomadic types
[2023-04-15T16:13:28Z] <sad_plan> ah, we dont have that here. stores close at 2300 at latest
[2023-04-15T16:13:40Z] <midfavila> that's why convenience stores are convenient
[2023-04-15T16:13:45Z] <midfavila> most are 24/7 or almost 24/7
[2023-04-15T16:13:57Z] <midfavila> most stuff here closes at like
[2023-04-15T16:13:59Z] <midfavila> 1600 lmao
[2023-04-15T16:14:02Z] <sad_plan> there are stores at gas stations that are open 24/7 though, which has some basic stuff, like milk, candy, soda
[2023-04-15T16:14:03Z] <midfavila> it's stupid
[2023-04-15T16:14:07Z] <sad_plan> thats stupid early
[2023-04-15T16:14:10Z] <midfavila> yeah see those are convenience stores
[2023-04-15T16:14:37Z] <sad_plan> I see
[2023-04-15T16:15:30Z] <sad_plan> fucking hell, im getting so annoyd. glazier gets it borders removed when alt-tabbing. but only when its used via sxhkd
[2023-04-15T16:15:50Z] <midfavila> i find glazier is just kind of alpha quality
[2023-04-15T16:15:53Z] <midfavila> i like it, to be clear
[2023-04-15T16:15:56Z] <midfavila> but it's not stable
[2023-04-15T16:16:06Z] <sad_plan> Ive tried swm aswell, and for some reason it does the same there
[2023-04-15T16:16:24Z] <sad_plan> wmutils creates a new single border instead, which overwrites glazier's double border
[2023-04-15T16:16:30Z] <sad_plan> swm also has same issue
[2023-04-15T16:17:06Z] <sad_plan> I made a new script which bypassed the changing of the border, but when running it in sxhkd, it still removes it, but not when using it in the terminal.
[2023-04-15T16:17:09Z] <sad_plan> which is curious
[2023-04-15T16:18:44Z] <sad_plan> no, wait. fucking hell. its my fault
[2023-04-15T16:18:59Z] <sad_plan> I messed up the sxhkd config, which instead used the old script, which broke the borders
[2023-04-15T16:19:13Z] <sad_plan> so its fixed after all. very well then
[2023-04-15T16:35:26Z] <sad_plan> ah, much better. rewrote the script in rc instead
[2023-04-15T16:35:29Z] <sad_plan> rc is fun
[2023-04-15T16:38:49Z] <midfavila> indeed
[2023-04-15T16:38:55Z] <midfavila> i need to sit down and learn it properly at some point
[2023-04-15T16:39:44Z] <sad_plan> yeah, Im learning as I go. ive ported alot of my sh scripts to rc, which has been a great learning experience
[2023-04-15T16:40:00Z] <sad_plan> yes, you should absolutly do that
[2023-04-15T16:40:24Z] <sad_plan> wtf, I fetched hierloom stuff, and all the files end with ',v'
[2023-04-15T16:40:25Z] <sad_plan> strange
[2023-04-15T16:41:29Z] <midfavila> i wish the heirloom stuff wasn't under the ODSL or OSDL or whatever license it's under
[2023-04-15T16:41:32Z] <midfavila> the Sun one
[2023-04-15T16:42:02Z] <sad_plan> berkley, caldera and open solaris it seems
[2023-04-15T16:42:10Z] <sad_plan> all 3 are in the dir im looking at anyho
[2023-04-15T16:42:12Z] <sad_plan> w
[2023-04-15T16:42:28Z] <midfavila> i want to find/reimplement the Writer's Workbench at some point
[2023-04-15T16:42:33Z] <sad_plan> I was abit anoyd that they dont have a git dir though. just cvs. so had to rsync to fetch it
[2023-04-15T16:42:39Z] <sad_plan> what that?
[2023-04-15T16:42:51Z] <midfavila> it seems like only a few related tools from WWB still exist
[2023-04-15T16:42:51Z] <midfavila> it's AT&T's document preparation system
[2023-04-15T16:42:58Z] <midfavila> origin of things like style/diction/spell 
[2023-04-15T16:43:05Z] <sad_plan> aah
[2023-04-15T16:43:15Z] <midfavila> included a number of other things as well
[2023-04-15T16:43:29Z] <midfavila> which attempted to, for example, detect potentially bigoted language
[2023-04-15T16:44:02Z] <midfavila> http://man.cat-v.org/unix_WWB/1/sexist
[2023-04-15T16:44:41Z] <sad_plan> seriously? that hilarious
[2023-04-15T16:44:54Z] <midfavila> i don't think it's an unreasonable thing, actually
[2023-04-15T16:45:24Z] <sad_plan> well.. does people include what would be described as bigoted language in code though? is that a thing?
[2023-04-15T16:45:32Z] <sad_plan> Ive never encountered it myself anyway
[2023-04-15T16:45:39Z] <midfavila> wwb isn't for developers
[2023-04-15T16:45:50Z] <midfavila> if you're asking about applying it to source code
[2023-04-15T16:46:02Z] <sad_plan> something like that, yes
[2023-04-15T16:46:11Z] <sad_plan> which is what I thought you were refering to initially
[2023-04-15T16:46:15Z] <midfavila> nop
[2023-04-15T16:46:25Z] <midfavila> wwb is for drafting communications documents primarily
[2023-04-15T16:46:37Z] <midfavila> so, manuals, memos, emails, whatever
[2023-04-15T16:46:41Z] <sad_plan> I noticed that now, I supose you would explicitly said that in that case
[2023-04-15T16:46:43Z] <sad_plan> ah I see
[2023-04-15T16:46:54Z] <sad_plan> I can see the usecase for that
[2023-04-15T16:54:47Z] <sad_plan> why does the licenses bother you anyway? are they restrictive?
[2023-04-15T17:00:30Z] <midfavila> yes. i don't recall what specifically rubbed me the wrong way though
[2023-04-15T17:00:37Z] <midfavila> i think it had to do with distribution of patches..?
[2023-04-15T17:00:54Z] <midfavila> also I might have found someone to buy my workstation so
[2023-04-15T17:01:03Z] <sad_plan> I see
[2023-04-15T17:01:04Z] <midfavila> availability may or may not be uh, low for the next bit
[2023-04-15T17:01:15Z] <midfavila> (not that anyone would notice me not being here ;w;)
[2023-04-15T17:01:16Z] <sad_plan> really? what are you replcaing it with? or are you just using something youve already got?
[2023-04-15T17:01:26Z] <midfavila> oh, no, i was talking about it last night
[2023-04-15T17:01:34Z] <midfavila> i'm like, super fucking poor rn and i need money lmao 
[2023-04-15T17:01:49Z] <midfavila> so i'm offloading most of my shit to pay for a ticket out of this shithole 
[2023-04-15T17:01:59Z] <sad_plan> I only skimmed through the last days logs, so Im mustve missed it
[2023-04-15T17:02:03Z] <midfavila> fair
[2023-04-15T17:02:05Z] <sad_plan> where youre going?
[2023-04-15T17:02:10Z] <midfavila> literally anywhere that isn't here
[2023-04-15T17:02:14Z] <midfavila> most likely lethbridge alberta
[2023-04-15T17:02:19Z] <sad_plan> alaska?
[2023-04-15T17:02:21Z] <sad_plan> ah
[2023-04-15T17:02:23Z] <midfavila> lmao i wish
[2023-04-15T17:02:25Z] <midfavila> no, i'm not american
[2023-04-15T17:02:41Z] <sad_plan> cant you migrate? is migrating as a canading as difficult as the rest of the world?
[2023-04-15T17:02:54Z] <midfavila> migrate to america? i wouldn't if you paid me
[2023-04-15T17:03:07Z] <midfavila> i'm not swearing allegiance to that country under threat of death
[2023-04-15T17:03:16Z] <sad_plan> the allow me to correct myself; move to usa
[2023-04-15T17:03:25Z] <midfavila> i'd need to get a job there first
[2023-04-15T17:03:34Z] <sad_plan> whats your beef with the US? just curious
[2023-04-15T17:03:39Z] <sad_plan> ah
[2023-04-15T17:03:47Z] <midfavila> job -> work visa -> temporary resident -> permanent resident -> citizenship is usually how things go afaik
[2023-04-15T17:04:01Z] <midfavila> as for the US, I just don't like the political climate
[2023-04-15T17:04:17Z] <midfavila> not to mention the whole "undergoing massive destabilization" thing
[2023-04-15T17:04:17Z] <sad_plan> how can you get a job before you get a work visa?
[2023-04-15T17:06:14Z] <midfavila> but yeah, current plan is to spend the next couple weeks sorting out my KISS fork, then i'll build all of the packages necessary to get a full-fat version running on my laptop, order parts to fix/replace my laptop, and just use that and my tablet for a while
[2023-04-15T17:06:29Z] <sad_plan> youll get indebted, and you sortof just dont pay. and when someone is trying to get the money from you.. they simply cant, because you have no money. at that point some time goes by, and the dept will be gone
[2023-04-15T17:06:40Z] <midfavila> yes, defaulting
[2023-04-15T17:06:43Z] <midfavila> but you still pay
[2023-04-15T17:06:48Z] <midfavila> in reputability 
[2023-04-15T17:06:54Z] <sad_plan> sounds like a plan
[2023-04-15T17:07:00Z] <midfavila> you do that, you'll never be able to take out a loan or a credit card ever again
[2023-04-15T17:07:07Z] <sad_plan> probably, but as a homeless man, that wouldnt matter
[2023-04-15T17:07:14Z] <midfavila> it would
[2023-04-15T17:07:32Z] <midfavila> credit cards and similar financial services are crucial to helping pull oneself out of poverty 
[2023-04-15T17:07:52Z] <midfavila> it's all about setting yourself up for tomorrow 
[2023-04-15T17:08:07Z] <midfavila> i've done it once before, i'll fukken do it again
[2023-04-15T17:08:13Z] <midfavila> where's my goofy jpg
[2023-04-15T17:08:19Z] <sad_plan> sure, but if said person is voluntary homeless, and wishes to remain homeless and travel like a vagrant/vagabond or something
[2023-04-15T17:08:38Z] <midfavila> if you're living the tramp lifestyle by choice then yeah all the power to ya
[2023-04-15T17:08:41Z] <midfavila> but most don't
[2023-04-15T17:08:49Z] <midfavila> and i ain't going back to that shit if it's the last thing i do
[2023-04-15T17:08:58Z] <sad_plan> I know. most people are afraid of doing someting like that aswell
[2023-04-15T17:09:08Z] <sad_plan> have you lived such a life?
[2023-04-15T17:09:09Z] <midfavila> i'm not afraid, it just fucking sucks
[2023-04-15T17:09:10Z] <midfavila> yes
[2023-04-15T17:09:15Z] <sad_plan> I see
[2023-04-15T17:09:27Z] <midfavila> for most of my life i've been homeless or in an unstable living situation
[2023-04-15T17:09:52Z] <sad_plan> that sucks. and thats an entierly different thing aswell. people often can see the difference though
[2023-04-15T17:10:16Z] * midfavila shrugs
[2023-04-15T17:11:00Z] <midfavila> ...shit, I need to get a bunch of SD cards if I'm going to go back to the /fastman/ life
[2023-04-15T17:21:38Z] <midfavila> oh damn
[2023-04-15T17:21:45Z] <midfavila> my setup has actually *appreciated* in value over time
[2023-04-15T17:21:48Z] <midfavila> by like, a lot
[2023-04-15T17:21:50Z] <midfavila> what the hell
[2023-04-15T17:22:05Z] <midfavila> motherboard has almost doubled in value
[2023-04-15T17:26:06Z] <sad_plan> thats amazing though. make more money by doing nothing
[2023-04-15T17:26:18Z] <midfavila> that's money for you i guess
[2023-04-15T17:26:24Z] <sad_plan> yep
[2023-04-15T17:27:27Z] <sad_plan> I made almost 10k last year when I sold a car, that I mostly had sitting for ages. it was amazing. never really did much with it besides just driving it, and letting it sit. 
[2023-04-15T17:27:36Z] <sad_plan> stuff like that is amazing :D
[2023-04-15T17:30:35Z] <midfavila> i just think it's crazy that my cosmos has gone up like 10-13x what i paid for it
[2023-04-15T17:30:39Z] <sad_plan> oh, illiliti is the minimum wage seriously that low in your country?
[2023-04-15T17:30:49Z] <midfavila> i got it for 100, people are buying them for upwards of a thousand
[2023-04-15T17:32:00Z] <sad_plan> supply and demand. sometimes its hits you in the butt, other times its like winning the lottery
[2023-04-15T17:33:13Z] <midfavila> ...i actually might be able to reasonably ask for upwards of 4k for my setup, looking at current prices... christ, no kidding
[2023-04-15T17:33:55Z] <sad_plan> thats an absurd increase in price
[2023-04-15T17:34:12Z] <midfavila> yeah. most of the stuff i own, i get really good deals on
[2023-04-15T17:34:42Z] <midfavila> so when things go fucking insane i can usually fall back on selling off most of what i own to get me out of trouble /shrug
[2023-04-15T17:34:54Z] <midfavila> it's like when you're fighting a boss and you get them to like 1/3 of their health or whatever
[2023-04-15T17:34:59Z] <sad_plan> great to have a fallback when things go sideways though
[2023-04-15T17:35:03Z] <midfavila> so they drop all their armor and start moving crazy fast
[2023-04-15T17:35:05Z] <midfavila> except lame
[2023-04-15T17:35:35Z] <sad_plan> if youve ever played the dark souls games, its just like that
[2023-04-15T17:35:41Z] <midfavila> my books usually maintain or appreciate in value too, which is nice... but i'm not looking forward to getting rid of them
[2023-04-15T17:36:11Z] <sad_plan> could you get the pdfs for them, and sell them instead though? and just store them digitally instead
[2023-04-15T17:36:18Z] <midfavila> for some of them
[2023-04-15T17:36:24Z] <midfavila> many of my books haven't been digitized at all
[2023-04-15T17:36:29Z] <sad_plan> I see
[2023-04-15T17:36:39Z] <midfavila> or the digitizations are horrible
[2023-04-15T17:36:55Z] <sad_plan> in any case, for those that does have a decent digital version, its almost free money
[2023-04-15T17:37:07Z] <sad_plan> seeing as you *keep* the book
[2023-04-15T17:37:14Z] <midfavila> well yes, i think that's why people consider copying PDFs to be theft in some cases
[2023-04-15T17:37:35Z] <midfavila> of course, I don't 
[2023-04-15T17:37:38Z] <midfavila> information ought to be free
[2023-04-15T17:37:50Z] <sad_plan> if you load a book at the library, and just scan the whole thing, its also theft. or w/e
[2023-04-15T17:37:58Z] <sad_plan> yes, infomation should totally be free
[2023-04-15T17:38:42Z] <sad_plan> s/load/loan
[2023-04-15T17:38:59Z] <sad_plan> or is borrow the correct word instead?
[2023-04-15T17:38:59Z] <midfavila> you can't scan library books because to scan a book usually entails destroying a copy
[2023-04-15T17:39:05Z] <midfavila> and it would be borrow
[2023-04-15T17:39:32Z] <sad_plan> surely you can scan each page separatly, and still give them back the book in the same condition
[2023-04-15T17:39:50Z] <sad_plan> or do you imply that when people scan books, they rip the pages out?
[2023-04-15T17:40:02Z] <midfavila> usually they remove the spine 
[2023-04-15T17:40:06Z] <sad_plan> I see
[2023-04-15T17:40:08Z] <midfavila> and scan each page individually
[2023-04-15T17:40:21Z] <midfavila> or use a machine that uses de-spined books to scan it automatically
[2023-04-15T17:40:26Z] <midfavila> libgen has a guide on it i think
[2023-04-15T17:41:01Z] <midfavila> https://vid.puffyan.us/watch?v=m_kpmf2z9yg&listen=true
[2023-04-15T17:41:15Z] <sad_plan> yeah, using an automatic one would probably be benefitial if youre going to scan lots of books
[2023-04-15T17:41:28Z] <midfavila> >when you download a 100 year old math textbook in america and get fined thousands
[2023-04-15T17:41:37Z] <midfavila> and yes, it's almost necessary
[2023-04-15T17:41:48Z] <midfavila> for me, if i wanted to digitize my entire library, that would be literally tens of thousands of pages
[2023-04-15T17:42:03Z] <midfavila> many of my references and textbooks have upwards of a thousand pages
[2023-04-15T17:42:22Z] <sad_plan> that ridiculus to get fined for such an old book. 
[2023-04-15T17:42:34Z] <midfavila> seventy years plus the lifetime of the author baby!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
[2023-04-15T17:42:36Z] <midfavila> fuck the commons
[2023-04-15T17:42:39Z] <midfavila> we need more money
[2023-04-15T17:42:49Z] <midfavila> that's part of why I hate the US :D
[2023-04-15T17:43:05Z] <sad_plan> sure. the US has lots of flaws..
[2023-04-15T17:45:17Z] <midfavila> the other thing that pisses me off is that when people scan books they use insanely high resolution scanners
[2023-04-15T17:45:33Z] <midfavila> and you end up with a 400 page textbook consuming hundreds of megs of disk space
[2023-04-15T17:45:39Z] <midfavila> and taking like 10+ seconds to render a page
[2023-04-15T17:46:16Z] <midfavila> i don't think it's unreasonable to expect an e-book to load the next page in the same amount of time it would take for me to flip a page in an actual book, using modern hardware and software
[2023-04-15T17:47:54Z] <sad_plan> thats not unresonable. 
[2023-04-15T17:49:26Z] <sad_plan> I was going to say that those I have is at biggest lest than 10m, but now that I looked at it, I got one that 101M for some reason
[2023-04-15T17:49:34Z] <midfavila> yeap
[2023-04-15T17:49:52Z] <midfavila> because people use insanely high res scanners, and most of what they capture is empty space
[2023-04-15T17:50:42Z] <sad_plan> hm. its the k n king C programming book. I do belive I have one thats 67k instead
[2023-04-15T17:50:55Z] <midfavila> C Programming: A Modern Approach?
[2023-04-15T17:51:00Z] <midfavila> i have that, both physical and digital
[2023-04-15T17:51:06Z] <midfavila> my digital copy is insanely huge
[2023-04-15T17:51:15Z] <sad_plan> wait, the second one was a bogus one. just some bs ad stuff
[2023-04-15T17:51:19Z] <sad_plan> but yes, that one
[2023-04-15T17:51:30Z] <midfavila> yeah there are a few PDFs like that on libgen
[2023-04-15T17:52:02Z] <sad_plan> yeah, I sortof just looked them up, and downloaded what I could find. no matter the size. sometimes Ive gotten half the book and stuff
[2023-04-15T17:52:30Z] <sad_plan> should probably start reading them aswell though. not just let them sit on my hd :p
[2023-04-15T17:52:32Z] <midfavila> mhm
[2023-04-15T21:47:54Z] <midfavila> https://github.com/tleino/iosplit
[2023-04-15T21:48:04Z] <midfavila> looking through my bookmarks, found this gemerald
[2023-04-15T21:48:14Z] <midfavila> https://github.com/MurphyMc/lilt
[2023-04-15T21:48:15Z] <midfavila> this guy too
[2023-04-15T21:48:26Z] <midfavila> based on libtmt, basis of mtm
[2023-04-15T21:48:30Z] <midfavila> and sdl1
[2023-04-15T22:55:05Z] <sewn> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DPyOhP1GTRQ