gemini - kennedy.gemi.dev

💾 Archived View for gemini.ctrl-c.club › ~phoebos › logs › kisslinux-2022-11-13.txt captured on 2024-05-26 at 16:04:26.
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[2022-11-13T02:12:31Z] <wael_> Hi
[2022-11-13T02:12:36Z] <sad_plan> hi wael_ 
[2022-11-13T03:38:14Z] <testuser[m]> Hi
[2022-11-13T05:24:47Z] <virutalmachineus> Hi
[2022-11-13T07:03:10Z] <virutalmachineus> Just switch UEFI command line and it feels great, suckless to the max.
[2022-11-13T07:03:46Z] <virutalmachineus> * Just switch ed to UEFI command
[2022-11-13T07:35:51Z] <wael_> What
[2022-11-13T09:43:15Z] <testuser[m]> ..yes well it got out of date when i had to go to prison again...and being in a jail cell for a few years i could not keep it updated..and now there is too much incompatibility to try to update it...so i just use it like it is except with a couple of mods....
[2022-11-13T09:45:35Z] <wael_> shouldn't KISS_FORCE also force build?
[2022-11-13T09:46:08Z] <testuser[m]> Prompt
[2022-11-13T09:47:48Z] <wael_> TIL
[2022-11-13T09:49:16Z] <wael_> wait that doesnt exactly force a build
[2022-11-13T09:49:22Z] <wael_> that just allows the implicit dependencies to get installed
[2022-11-13T13:50:01Z] <wael_> if a package relies on a dependency that only relies on that one package, would it be fair to bundle it with the package?
[2022-11-13T13:50:26Z] <testuser[m]> no
[2022-11-13T13:50:35Z] <wael_> it must be unbundled?
[2022-11-13T13:50:37Z] <wael_> and be a seperate package?
[2022-11-13T13:50:39Z] <testuser[m]> ye
[2022-11-13T13:50:44Z] <wael_> why is that
[2022-11-13T13:50:58Z] <testuser[m]> no
[2022-11-13T13:51:02Z] <testuser[m]> just don't
[2022-11-13T13:51:16Z] <testuser[m]> u can make it a make dep and link static if u want
[2022-11-13T13:51:16Z] <wael_> yea but why
[2022-11-13T13:51:20Z] <testuser[m]> cuz it's hacky
[2022-11-13T13:51:54Z] <wael_> but since the dependency is only needed by 1 package it makes sense  to bundle no?
[2022-11-13T13:52:01Z] <testuser[m]> N O
[2022-11-13T13:52:05Z] <wael_> wah
[2022-11-13T13:53:34Z] <macslash1[m]> Lol
[2022-11-13T13:54:43Z] <macslash1[m]> I mean like if that dep is used in a diff program later down the road then it could cause issues
[2022-11-13T15:26:26Z] <wael_> hence why i said specifically for one pacakge
[2022-11-13T15:26:48Z] <wael_> if another needed it then it gets unbundled 
[2022-11-13T15:52:46Z] <testuser[m]> Wat does bundling save
[2022-11-13T15:52:48Z] <testuser[m]> nothing
[2022-11-13T16:09:13Z] <wael_> 1 less dependency
[2022-11-13T16:09:26Z] <wael_> ''''''''''''''''dependency'''''''''''''''''''' in this case
[2022-11-13T16:16:34Z] <testuser[m]> you're just fooling yourself then
[2022-11-13T16:21:43Z] <wael_> that is exactly my goal
[2022-11-13T16:23:38Z] <sad_plan> wael_: but each time you build that package, you build 2 packages. which takes longer, and will put a larger strain on peoples systems
[2022-11-13T16:24:01Z] <wael_> true true
[2022-11-13T16:24:19Z] <wael_> but then look at freetype-harfbuzz lmoahjo
[2022-11-13T16:25:06Z] <sad_plan> theres a reason for it. you force build harfbuzz with freetype support, and vice versa. if we hadnt done that, users would have to explicitly rebuild freetype and harfbuzz 
[2022-11-13T16:25:16Z] <sad_plan> but sure, I see your point
[2022-11-13T16:25:40Z] <wael_> you literally proved my point wrong wtf
[2022-11-13T16:25:57Z] <testuser[m]> Just modify kiss to return pkg count after dividing by 10
[2022-11-13T16:26:19Z] <sad_plan> what did you expect? :p
[2022-11-13T16:26:22Z] <sad_plan> ^ lol
[2022-11-13T16:26:39Z] <wael_> time to make own package manager so that 29 core packages are bundled as one meta core package
[2022-11-13T16:27:35Z] <sad_plan> or build things statically linked, and 40 packages will get to like 4 packages. in the case of statically linked tinyx, st glazier sx sxhkd
[2022-11-13T16:28:50Z] <wael_> what the fart
[2022-11-13T16:28:58Z] <sad_plan> alot of libX stuff you know
[2022-11-13T16:29:12Z] <sad_plan> aswell as xcb stuff for glazier and sxhkd
[2022-11-13T16:31:39Z] <wael_> wtf is glazier
[2022-11-13T16:31:39Z] <wael_> thats a webkit2gtk browser isnt it
[2022-11-13T16:32:10Z] <sad_plan> no, its a wm
[2022-11-13T16:32:17Z] <sad_plan> its what I use
[2022-11-13T16:32:32Z] <sad_plan> https://git.z3bra.org/glazier/
[2022-11-13T16:35:40Z] <wael_> wHAT
[2022-11-13T16:35:42Z] <wael_> wtf is libwm
[2022-11-13T16:40:42Z] <sad_plan> its a library which glazier uses. also from same place
[2022-11-13T16:40:59Z] <wael_> danmn
[2022-11-13T16:44:48Z] <testuser[m]> wael: you're gonna bundle it aren't yoi
[2022-11-13T16:44:53Z] <wael_> bundlwe what
[2022-11-13T16:45:12Z] <aelspire> Hi, I'm new to KISS linux and currently I'm trying to bloat my installation to replicate my workflow from void linux before I could think what can I remove. I like fish shell and I noticed that any completions are removed from official packages. I would like to re-add them and not sure how to do this with less friction. I guess this might be possible with KISS_HOOKS. Anyone can provide me some directions how this can be done or fork is the only way?
[2022-11-13T16:46:12Z] <wael_> sway and foot are the only notable programs with removed fish completions 
[2022-11-13T16:46:12Z] <testuser[m]> aelspire: they're removed in the package build files themselves so you'll have to fork pkgs
[2022-11-13T16:46:18Z] <testuser[m]> Idk why they're removed
[2022-11-13T16:46:35Z] <testuser[m]> What do u need those for anyway they exist for like 3 packages
[2022-11-13T16:48:20Z] <aelspire> well, fish can generate completions from man pages, but I guess the ones provided in packages are better. So this is tiny problem for me
[2022-11-13T16:49:03Z] <aelspire> but I noticed this completion remowals and it irked my OCD a little
[2022-11-13T16:50:38Z] <wael_> oh yeah fish completions are removed in the default tarball i believe
[2022-11-13T16:51:00Z] <aelspire> pre-build KISS_HOOK's second arg is just a directory where package will be builded? yes? no access to build script from repo?
[2022-11-13T16:51:08Z] <wael_> a kiss_hook is applied on packages when building the tarball, which removes all completion for shells
[2022-11-13T16:51:31Z] <wael_> aelspire: ?
[2022-11-13T16:51:59Z] <aelspire> there is pre-build KISS_HOOK and I hoped that it has access to build script from package
[2022-11-13T16:52:24Z] <aelspire> so it can modify build instruction for packages
[2022-11-13T16:53:10Z] <wael_> i mean you technically can do that but its quite difficult
[2022-11-13T16:53:23Z] <wael_> its only 2 notable packages that explicitly have completion disabled
[2022-11-13T16:54:18Z] <aelspire> $ rg fish
[2022-11-13T16:54:18Z] <aelspire> community/community/swayidle/build
[2022-11-13T16:54:18Z] <aelspire> 8:    -Dfish-completions=false \
[2022-11-13T16:54:18Z] <aelspire> community/community/swaylock/build
[2022-11-13T16:54:18Z] <aelspire> 9:    -Dfish-completions=false \
[2022-11-13T16:54:18Z] <aelspire> repo/wayland/sway-no-seat/build
[2022-11-13T16:54:18Z] <aelspire> 21:    -Dfish-completions=false \
[2022-11-13T16:54:19Z] <aelspire> repo/wayland/sway/build
[2022-11-13T16:54:19Z] <aelspire> 18:    -Dfish-completions=false \
[2022-11-13T16:54:20Z] <aelspire> repo/wayland/sway-tiny/build
[2022-11-13T16:54:20Z] <aelspire> 20:    -Dfish-completions=false \
[2022-11-13T16:54:21Z] <aelspire> repo/wayland/foot-pgo/build
[2022-11-13T16:55:02Z] <aelspire> yes, it look like there are only a few packages with fish removed
[2022-11-13T16:55:13Z] <wael_> i wouldnt believe that sway and foot are packages that need completion
[2022-11-13T16:55:14Z] <aelspire> so fork is the way
[2022-11-13T16:55:20Z] <wael_> maybe swayidle or swaylock would benefit
[2022-11-13T16:55:34Z] <aelspire> ok, cool thanks for help
[2022-11-13T16:55:46Z] <aelspire> forking few packages is no problem
[2022-11-13T16:56:01Z] <aelspire> if doing this via hook is too much trouble
[2022-11-13T16:56:21Z] <wael_> you can simply make a repo and symlink all files except the build file
[2022-11-13T16:57:22Z] <testuser[m]> So bad
[2022-11-13T16:58:11Z] <wael_> Whart
[2022-11-13T17:07:20Z] <aelspire> I'm quite impressed with kiss-community. gcc is at version 12.2.0 while void still has 10.2.1 and updating to 12.x still looks like a lot of work. KUDOS
[2022-11-13T17:08:07Z] <wael_> this is simply because its less maintenance than void
[2022-11-13T17:08:13Z] <aelspire> sometimes I think that void took too big bite, too
[2022-11-13T17:08:25Z] <wael_> void has maybe 8 architectures and maybe thousands of packages that are all binary, also with the fact that packages take very long times to update
[2022-11-13T17:08:33Z] <aelspire> they literally need 3x developers they have
[2022-11-13T17:08:54Z] <aelspire> yeah, multiple architertures, glibc + musl
[2022-11-13T17:08:55Z] <wael_> eg llvm is still version 12 and prs have been opening for 13, closed, 14, closed 15, and the dudes working on those prs are not getting ANY support by maintainers
[2022-11-13T17:09:24Z] <aelspire> and on Arch I use some packages from AUR, void has everything in main repo
[2022-11-13T17:09:38Z] <aelspire> insane amount of work needed to maintain this
[2022-11-13T17:09:46Z] <wael_> yep
[2022-11-13T17:12:13Z] <saturn[m]> testuser: is installing microG on lineageos as simple as just installing the apks and installing from there?
[2022-11-13T17:12:57Z] <sad_plan> no
[2022-11-13T17:13:12Z] <sad_plan> microg has to be installed from recovery, or via magisk
[2022-11-13T17:13:15Z] <sad_plan> unless they changed it
[2022-11-13T17:13:20Z] <sad_plan> iirc microg has to be system app
[2022-11-13T17:13:29Z] <saturn[m]> oh, i saw some apks there: didn’t know that
[2022-11-13T17:13:33Z] <macslash1[m]> aelspire  I mean, dylan was right about repos becoming too big to handle, kiss repos are tiny and yet accomplish most of what people need because most packages are quite niche on those kinds of distros
[2022-11-13T17:13:43Z] <saturn[m]> never really touched android much so i don’t have an idea on how to do this lol
[2022-11-13T17:14:08Z] <sad_plan> havent used it in ages, so it mightve gotten changed, but I doubt it
[2022-11-13T17:14:24Z] <wael_> macslash1: its also extremely easy to fork and maintain yourself 
[2022-11-13T17:14:34Z] <macslash1[m]> Also true
[2022-11-13T17:14:57Z] <macslash1[m]> Easy to customize things to your liking even if it may not work for other people
[2022-11-13T17:15:54Z] <testuser[m]> aelspire: void has 1000x more maintenance burden
[2022-11-13T17:16:06Z] <testuser[m]> saturn: u can't install microg on lineage to do anything useful
[2022-11-13T17:16:18Z] <testuser[m]> It needs signature spoofing so you need some other rom or lineage4microg
[2022-11-13T17:16:36Z] <macslash1[m]> Void has many things, its a shame because its a fantastic distro but its just impossible to maintain
[2022-11-13T17:16:59Z] <aelspire> macslash1: yes I think so too, so I'm trying kiss. I tried void and alpine before but for void I don't like its package system (you fork the main repo for xbps-src and merge your packages to it) and the packages are little too old, as I need newer C++ for work. And in alpine I didn't like OpenRC. Deamontools-alikes are the best!
[2022-11-13T17:17:12Z] <testuser[m]> Also KISS is less "tested" so you might get pkg build breaks at times
[2022-11-13T17:17:26Z] <testuser[m]> Like we usually don't do full rebuild of repo+community on gcc ipdate
[2022-11-13T17:17:32Z] <testuser[m]> For testing
[2022-11-13T17:17:39Z] <wael_> kiss userbase is very very very very very very very very very very  very very very tiny no time to test
[2022-11-13T17:18:05Z] <saturn[m]> testuser[m]: oh damn, what should i use instead?
[2022-11-13T17:18:19Z] <wael_> testuser suggested another rom
[2022-11-13T17:18:31Z] <saturn[m]> oh
[2022-11-13T17:18:37Z] <macslash1[m]> The users are the testers, no real need to test too much cus you can literally just contact the maintainer directly and they will fix it or lose their ownership
[2022-11-13T17:18:42Z] <wael_> testuser is the tester
[2022-11-13T17:18:50Z] <testuser[m]> What do you  need microg for
[2022-11-13T17:18:54Z] <sad_plan> I suggest grapeneOS or calyx, maybe divestos aswell. in that order
[2022-11-13T17:18:54Z] <testuser[m]> Most stuff can be used in browser
[2022-11-13T17:19:22Z] <testuser[m]> I needed just location part of microg that works without sig spoofing so i made a quick hacky fork 
[2022-11-13T17:19:42Z] <testuser[m]> https://github.com/git-bruh/unifiednlp-standalone
[2022-11-13T17:19:58Z] <saturn[m]> what’s the benefit of using microg btw
[2022-11-13T17:20:03Z] <saturn[m]> what will i lose if i dont use it
[2022-11-13T17:20:07Z] <testuser[m]> nothing
[2022-11-13T17:20:11Z] <testuser[m]> Other than network location
[2022-11-13T17:20:46Z] <saturn[m]> so wifi and stuff will work and i can just install apps like normal
[2022-11-13T17:20:49Z] <wael_> testuser[m]: has the pr been merged yet tho
[2022-11-13T17:21:11Z] <aelspire> wael_: But I also think that breakages are smaller problem. On void package to merge into main branch must be perfect and cause no breakage. If kiss-community allow imperfect merges, one person will fix one thing, next person will fix other thing, and in result there will be incremental improvements to the repo, and with time there will be no breakages in used packages.
[2022-11-13T17:21:55Z] <wael_> so true
[2022-11-13T17:22:07Z] <testuser[m]> saturn: depends on what apps
[2022-11-13T17:23:04Z] <saturn[m]> testuser[m]: i probably will just use youtube and get the aliucord apk, element too
[2022-11-13T17:23:25Z] <saturn[m]> and some minor customizing with nova launcher
[2022-11-13T17:24:08Z] <testuser[m]> All those will work
[2022-11-13T17:24:11Z] <testuser[m]> Use newpipe for ewwtube
[2022-11-13T17:24:17Z] <saturn[m]> alright
[2022-11-13T17:26:43Z] <saturn[m]> should i use lineageos’ recovery.img or no need
[2022-11-13T17:43:11Z] <sad_plan> use the zip file, and use twrp to flash it. just remember to flash the twrp zip aswell afterwards, so you keep twrp
[2022-11-13T18:06:00Z] <macslash1[m]> Configured a kernel by myself for the 2nd time
[2022-11-13T18:06:08Z] <macslash1[m]> What r the odds ive messed up
[2022-11-13T18:09:43Z] <testuser[m]> 68.34%
[2022-11-13T18:13:33Z] <macslash1[m]> Yea fair enough
[2022-11-13T18:16:05Z] <sad_plan> do an all-no config, its way more fun. also a great learning experience
[2022-11-13T18:16:25Z] <sad_plan> I did it earlier, it was great, but also abit frustrating, as things broke, and I didnt know why
[2022-11-13T18:16:46Z] <testuser[m]> What use was the learning experience then
[2022-11-13T18:16:47Z] <testuser[m]> lol
[2022-11-13T18:17:06Z] <sad_plan> figuring out why things break, and whats needed and not
[2022-11-13T18:17:09Z] <macslash1[m]> sad_plan: a.... what?
[2022-11-13T18:18:13Z] <macslash1[m]> So just turn everything off anf turn on stuff a bit at a time lol
[2022-11-13T18:19:09Z] <sad_plan> I started with explicitly only enabling things I knew my system would not boot without, and when It booted, I turned stuff on as I notived I needed them
[2022-11-13T18:20:01Z] <sad_plan> macslash1[m]: exacly. however, the kernel doesnt have a all-no config option, so you have a to create a new config, then do some sed magic to remove everything effiecnelty
[2022-11-13T18:29:54Z] <wael_> @sad_plan but why allnoconfig
[2022-11-13T18:30:06Z] <wael_> wouldnt everything straight up break
[2022-11-13T18:30:11Z] <testuser[m]> So you can spend even more time configuring
[2022-11-13T18:30:14Z] <sad_plan> i doesnt exist
[2022-11-13T18:30:25Z] <wael_> mfw minimal config
[2022-11-13T18:30:38Z] <wael_> I shall try it out
[2022-11-13T18:30:59Z] <sad_plan> yes, what size is your kernel anyway? I had a pretty minimal kernel to begin with, and shaved off 1mb
[2022-11-13T18:31:37Z] <sad_plan> its not at 6mb. this is with -O2. Im down to 5mb with -Os if I wanted to
[2022-11-13T18:32:04Z] <sad_plan> s/not/now/
[2022-11-13T18:32:08Z] <wael_> idk probably 13mb
[2022-11-13T18:32:33Z] <wael_> honestly I just want performance
[2022-11-13T18:33:12Z] <sad_plan> well thers probably some performance to gain there. removing stuff thats not used, and choosing options that will improve the performance
[2022-11-13T18:33:48Z] <sad_plan> have a look at dotslashlinux. it has some guides on choosing the options which will benefit you. aswell as things that might not matter, which can then be removed
[2022-11-13T18:34:40Z] <testuser[m]> What does it do
[2022-11-13T18:35:33Z] <wael_> whatsca dotslashlibux
[2022-11-13T18:35:58Z] <sad_plan> its a website. it goes through the kernel configuration process, and points out what different configs do, and wether or not you might need them. I know most of this is sortof outlined in the help section for earch config, but it still helps shed abit more light on some of them
[2022-11-13T18:38:04Z] <wael_> thanks
[2022-11-13T18:38:30Z] <wael_> maybe I'll look at TkG, Xanmod kernel patches too
[2022-11-13T18:39:10Z] <sad_plan> perhaps. isnt the zen kernel also supposed to be more performant? I seem to recall that. never used it. I use lts
[2022-11-13T18:40:59Z] <wael_> Idk
[2022-11-13T18:41:37Z] <sad_plan> its worth a read anyway, if performance is what youre after
[2022-11-13T18:54:32Z] <macslash1[m]> Zen kernel is apparently good for home pcs
[2022-11-13T18:55:03Z] <macslash1[m]> A bunch of kernel hack stuff try it ig
[2022-11-13T18:55:04Z] <saturn[m]> macslash1[m]: you most likely wouldn’t even experience a difference
[2022-11-13T18:55:32Z] <macslash1[m]> Might do on a very low end system
[2022-11-13T18:55:39Z] <saturn[m]> how low end
[2022-11-13T18:55:57Z] <macslash1[m]> I imagine compiling for speed on a diff pc then moving it over might squeeze out a bit more
[2022-11-13T18:56:10Z] <macslash1[m]> Not sure, ig u would have to test that
[2022-11-13T18:57:11Z] <macslash1[m]> Maybe good for a rasp pi or smth
[2022-11-13T18:57:35Z] <saturn[m]> macslash1[m]: rasp pis aren’t so low end
[2022-11-13T18:58:04Z] <macslash1[m]> Depends theres quite a few models
[2022-11-13T19:53:52Z] <macslash1[m]> How would I move kiss out of /mnt while keeping my system intact until kiss boots
[2022-11-13T19:54:32Z] <wael_> you can't keep your system intact while replacing the entire root
[2022-11-13T19:55:53Z] <wael_> Wait
[2022-11-13T19:56:02Z] <wael_> Have a look at switch_root(8)
[2022-11-13T20:02:37Z] <illiliti> no
[2022-11-13T20:03:01Z] <illiliti> switch_root will remove old root
[2022-11-13T20:03:16Z] <illiliti> it essentially does rm -rf /
[2022-11-13T20:03:32Z] <illiliti> make sure you don't lose anything
[2022-11-13T20:09:38Z] <illiliti> and you need to be pid 1. otherwise switch_root won't work
[2022-11-13T20:12:31Z] <macslash1[m]> illiliti I dont have anything on my system anyway
[2022-11-13T20:12:40Z] <macslash1[m]> Lol
[2022-11-13T20:13:17Z] <macslash1[m]> But like im confused on how I use it, do I use switch_root on /mnt/?
[2022-11-13T20:16:17Z] <sad_plan> macslash1[m]: you are running a kiss install, and have a new kiss install mounted to /mnt? is that correct?
[2022-11-13T20:16:31Z] <macslash1[m]> Yea
[2022-11-13T20:17:35Z] <sad_plan> I dont see any reason for you to no just move the files you want into / though. Ive done stuff like that all the time. unpack a tarball, and move /usr from /mnt to /. no issues
[2022-11-13T20:18:02Z] <sad_plan> unless youve done something that will explicitly break stuff in your current install, I dont see any reason for it to not work
[2022-11-13T20:19:01Z] <macslash1[m]> Fair
[2022-11-13T20:19:12Z] <macslash1[m]> Ill just remove /bin last and it should be fine
[2022-11-13T20:19:48Z] <sad_plan> if you know your stuff in /mnt works, add it to patch, so if your / breaks, things still work
[2022-11-13T20:20:01Z] <sad_plan> what did you do in /mnt that you couldnt do in your running machine?
[2022-11-13T20:20:59Z] <sad_plan> also, dont move things from /mnt, copy it instead
[2022-11-13T20:21:36Z] <macslash1[m]> Kk
[2022-11-13T20:22:36Z] <sad_plan> s/patch/path/ 
[2022-11-13T20:30:23Z] <macslash1[m]> Okay i found a better way by just going into a live usb lmao
[2022-11-13T20:40:40Z] <sad_plan> thats also a way to do it :p
[2022-11-13T22:09:14Z] <illiliti> mold might soon become non-free software :(
[2022-11-13T22:10:11Z] <illiliti> we gotta, unfortunately, remove it from repos when/if that happens