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[2021-05-23T00:09:24Z] <midfavila> Did you mean: "This is a great way to spend my time, thanks, Mid!"
[2021-05-23T00:13:17Z] <dilyn> the cull has happened https://github.com/kiss-community/repo-community/issues/197 :(  
[2021-05-23T00:14:10Z] <midfavila> noooooooooooooo!!!
[2021-05-23T00:14:13Z] <midfavila> not spotifyd!
[2021-05-23T00:14:34Z] <midfavila> dilyn how could you
[2021-05-23T00:14:46Z] <dilyn> i would've kept it just for the luls but I don't have spotify premium because paying to not own music is dumb
[2021-05-23T00:15:09Z] <midfavila> spotify isn't even worth keeping around for the lulz.
[2021-05-23T00:15:18Z] <midfavila> like
[2021-05-23T00:15:35Z] <acheam> that issue is really hard to navigate
[2021-05-23T00:15:35Z] <midfavila> every time I ask someone why they have it, instead of just downloading music, their response is "because it's convenient"
[2021-05-23T00:15:52Z] <midfavila> but what's more convenient than having the music literally on-device?
[2021-05-23T00:15:54Z] <acheam> i still havent figured out a good way to download music and keep good metadata
[2021-05-23T00:16:08Z] <midfavila> i don't even care about metadata
[2021-05-23T00:16:14Z] <acheam> how do you manage your music
[2021-05-23T00:16:36Z] <midfavila> i have a directory, Media, which contains sub-directories Music, Images, Video
[2021-05-23T00:16:44Z] <midfavila> each of those contains subdirectories sorted by genre
[2021-05-23T00:16:47Z] <midfavila> and then by artist
[2021-05-23T00:17:06Z] <midfavila> under that are the pieces, named $author - $piece.$format
[2021-05-23T00:17:56Z] <acheam> > sorted by genre
[2021-05-23T00:18:00Z] <midfavila> yes, I know
[2021-05-23T00:18:01Z] <dilyn> RIGHT
[2021-05-23T00:18:04Z] <dilyn> who the fuck does that 
[2021-05-23T00:18:06Z] <dilyn> you're a monster
[2021-05-23T00:18:08Z] <midfavila> i do
[2021-05-23T00:18:14Z] <acheam> how do you even decide what genre stuff is
[2021-05-23T00:18:23Z] <acheam> you're tastes are too basic if they can be that easily demarcated
[2021-05-23T00:18:25Z] <june> it's either Rock or Pop
[2021-05-23T00:18:31Z] <acheam> duh
[2021-05-23T00:18:36Z] <midfavila> personally? based on how similar a given set of pieces sound
[2021-05-23T00:18:44Z] <acheam> ?
[2021-05-23T00:18:47Z] <acheam> explain
[2021-05-23T00:18:49Z] <midfavila> i mean
[2021-05-23T00:18:51Z] <midfavila> it's pretty obvious
[2021-05-23T00:19:00Z] <midfavila> rap sounds starkly different than chiptune.
[2021-05-23T00:19:12Z] <midfavila> chiptune in turn is different from hard rock
[2021-05-23T00:19:22Z] <june> but what if you have chiptune rap
[2021-05-23T00:19:22Z] <midfavila> which is different from soft rock, or experimental music
[2021-05-23T00:19:30Z] <midfavila> then it goes under a seperate category
[2021-05-23T00:19:45Z] <midfavila> i actually *have* rap that uses chiptune as a backing track
[2021-05-23T00:19:55Z] <midfavila> because I'm Cool:tm:
[2021-05-23T00:20:00Z] <claudia> What if one artis does techno and classic folk?
[2021-05-23T00:20:08Z] <claudia> *artist
[2021-05-23T00:20:09Z] <midfavila> yes, that's the main issue
[2021-05-23T00:20:26Z] <midfavila> but for me it's a non-issue, because I don't usually listen to pieces outside of an artist's usual genre
[2021-05-23T00:20:45Z] <midfavila> like, if I listen to you because I like your rock tracks, I'm not going to be interested in your country tracks, most likely.
[2021-05-23T00:20:55Z] <midfavila> and if I do, then like... oh no, there's slight redundancy.
[2021-05-23T00:21:18Z] <midfavila> i've lost eight kilobytes of disk space and two inodes
[2021-05-23T00:21:52Z] <midfavila> if that, honestly...
[2021-05-23T00:22:09Z] <claudia> I went your aproach too
[2021-05-23T00:22:25Z] <midfavila> also,
[2021-05-23T00:22:39Z] <midfavila> and this is totally an accident,
[2021-05-23T00:22:42Z] <claudia> But when an artis does several styles, I put them in the genre , for which I focus on that artist. 
[2021-05-23T00:22:56Z] <midfavila> but it means I can easily search with regular shell tools, or quickly make playlists using symlinks
[2021-05-23T00:23:06Z] <dilyn> playlists are heresy 
[2021-05-23T00:23:10Z] <dilyn> albums exist for a reason 
[2021-05-23T00:23:12Z] <midfavila> which can then be handled by my usual media player script
[2021-05-23T00:23:15Z] <midfavila> stfu hipster
[2021-05-23T00:23:20Z] <midfavila> go back to listening to your vinyls
[2021-05-23T00:23:23Z] <noocsharp> imagine listening to music
[2021-05-23T00:23:24Z] <dilyn> :)  
[2021-05-23T00:23:24Z] <june> I agree, dilyn 
[2021-05-23T00:23:29Z] <dilyn> <3  
[2021-05-23T00:23:37Z] <dilyn> somebody gets it 
[2021-05-23T00:23:40Z] <midfavila> that's cultural appropriation
[2021-05-23T00:23:44Z] <june> maybe I will, midfavila 
[2021-05-23T00:23:45Z] <midfavila> you're cancelled, dilyn
[2021-05-23T00:23:50Z] <june> imagine listening to music digitally
[2021-05-23T00:23:50Z] <dilyn> finally
[2021-05-23T00:23:53Z] <june> cringe
[2021-05-23T00:23:53Z] <midfavila> and you're next, june
[2021-05-23T00:23:53Z] <claudia> U cant understand someones work without perspective
[2021-05-23T00:24:04Z] <midfavila> acheam, fetch me my whetstone
[2021-05-23T00:24:08Z] <midfavila> the bayonet needs sharpening
[2021-05-23T00:24:52Z] <acheam> I do full albums at a time too
[2021-05-23T00:25:00Z] <acheam> midfavila: i shalt refuse
[2021-05-23T00:25:15Z] <acheam> why do we use fossies for so much stuff?
[2021-05-23T00:25:17Z] <midfavila> then you too shall meet your end at my steel
[2021-05-23T00:25:21Z] <claudia> But you can listen to music digitally, played by someone on vinyl. 
[2021-05-23T00:25:30Z] <midfavila> ^
[2021-05-23T00:25:34Z] <claudia> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UePOONFDd9A
[2021-05-23T00:25:56Z] <noocsharp> music is bloat; i just keep a midi keyboard next to me in case i want to listen to something
[2021-05-23T00:25:58Z] <midfavila> i have no shame in admitting that I listen to DJ Cutman's recordings of his undertale OST on vinyl
[2021-05-23T00:26:14Z] <june> w-why
[2021-05-23T00:26:19Z] thebuzzing quit: Remote host closed the connection
[2021-05-23T00:26:23Z] <midfavila> if you read the logs, all will become clear
[2021-05-23T00:26:30Z] <midfavila> ...or hang around me long enough.
[2021-05-23T00:27:03Z] <midfavila> man, in the past like
[2021-05-23T00:27:10Z] <midfavila> seven hours, I've read a whopping three pages of K&R
[2021-05-23T00:27:15Z] <midfavila> how productive
[2021-05-23T00:29:08Z] thebuzzing joined
[2021-05-23T00:29:51Z] <acheam> midfavila: you'd love this, you can build emacs with Xaw only
[2021-05-23T00:30:02Z] <acheam> its the default option in the community repo
[2021-05-23T00:30:03Z] <dilyn> I assume we use fossies because they provide https sources
[2021-05-23T00:30:19Z] <acheam> compared to FTP?
[2021-05-23T00:30:28Z] <midfavila> i already know that emacs supports xaw
[2021-05-23T00:30:31Z] <midfavila> it also handles MOTIF
[2021-05-23T00:30:36Z] <midfavila> gvim does the same last I checked
[2021-05-23T00:30:47Z] <dilyn> who even uses ftp in $YEAR
[2021-05-23T00:30:51Z] claudia quit: Quit: Leaving
[2021-05-23T00:30:54Z] * midfavila raises paw
[2021-05-23T00:30:57Z] <midfavila> Present.
[2021-05-23T00:31:01Z] <midfavila> All... one of us.
[2021-05-23T00:31:03Z] <carlosdavidepto> you'd be surprised dilyn
[2021-05-23T00:31:07Z] <dilyn> mid we all know you're trapped in 2004
[2021-05-23T00:31:14Z] <noocsharp> i had to use it to download the openbsd ports tree yesterday
[2021-05-23T00:31:19Z] <dilyn> hng
[2021-05-23T00:31:34Z] <acheam> finally have KISS on my main workstation, and honestly, its kind of awesome
[2021-05-23T00:31:45Z] <dilyn> finally
[2021-05-23T00:31:48Z] claudia joined
[2021-05-23T00:31:48Z] <acheam> I know thats strange to say having been in this irc channel for like 6 months
[2021-05-23T00:32:00Z] <dilyn> the number of people in this channel that don't have KISS actually installed on hardware is mind boggling 
[2021-05-23T00:32:14Z] <acheam> its gotta be like, 6, including me now
[2021-05-23T00:32:15Z] <acheam> lol
[2021-05-23T00:32:21Z] * june hides
[2021-05-23T00:32:24Z] <dilyn> lol
[2021-05-23T00:32:32Z] <dilyn> I mean, it's fine, and everyone is cool
[2021-05-23T00:32:38Z] <acheam> its okay, you're in good company june 
[2021-05-23T00:32:41Z] <dilyn> but we're outnumbered! 
[2021-05-23T00:32:47Z] <june> I don't even have linux installed on any hardware
[2021-05-23T00:32:49Z] <dilyn> no wonder nobody adopts packages xD
[2021-05-23T00:32:54Z] <midfavila> by our autism combined we shall prevail, dilyn
[2021-05-23T00:33:03Z] <midfavila> we'll be like a really shitty captain planet knockoff
[2021-05-23T00:33:06Z] <midfavila> but for hipster linux distros
[2021-05-23T00:33:08Z] <dilyn> :<
[2021-05-23T00:33:17Z] <acheam> hipster netbsd ports tree when?
[2021-05-23T00:33:22Z] <midfavila> no no no
[2021-05-23T00:33:25Z] <dilyn> isn't that just obsd
[2021-05-23T00:33:27Z] <midfavila> netbsd is too mainstream
[2021-05-23T00:33:29Z] <midfavila> also no dilyn
[2021-05-23T00:33:35Z] <acheam> dragonfly then?
[2021-05-23T00:33:37Z] <midfavila> netbsd is focused on efficiency and compat
[2021-05-23T00:33:38Z] <midfavila> and no
[2021-05-23T00:33:42Z] <midfavila> dBSD is also too mainstream
[2021-05-23T00:33:45Z] <dilyn> dragonfly?
[2021-05-23T00:33:48Z] <acheam> p9?
[2021-05-23T00:33:49Z] <dilyn> :(
[2021-05-23T00:33:51Z] <midfavila> we're going so hipster that we're going to use a BSD that doesn't even exist yet
[2021-05-23T00:33:56Z] <midfavila> hyperbola/BSD
[2021-05-23T00:34:00Z] <acheam> BRUH
[2021-05-23T00:34:01Z] <june> hyperbolaBSD
[2021-05-23T00:34:02Z] <dilyn> 2gpl4me
[2021-05-23T00:34:03Z] <noocsharp> 4.4BSD
[2021-05-23T00:34:04Z] <acheam> the GPL bsd
[2021-05-23T00:34:05Z] <claudia> I would send pull requests but I want be able to just disapear and therefore not the reponsibilty.
[2021-05-23T00:34:16Z] <midfavila> i uniroincally intend to make a hBSD KISS
[2021-05-23T00:34:20Z] <midfavila> come at me
[2021-05-23T00:34:21Z] <acheam> noooo
[2021-05-23T00:34:27Z] <acheam> but you have a bayonet
[2021-05-23T00:34:38Z] <midfavila> we can take this to the mcdonald's parking lot after school and settle this there
[2021-05-23T00:34:41Z] <dilyn> it's cool guys maintaining 500 packages is my wet dream
[2021-05-23T00:34:53Z] <acheam> theres people like that in the Arch community
[2021-05-23T00:34:55Z] <midfavila> i already have around 150 in my ports 
[2021-05-23T00:34:55Z] <acheam> why cant they come here
[2021-05-23T00:35:04Z] <midfavila> they already sold their life to arch
[2021-05-23T00:35:05Z] <midfavila> that's why
[2021-05-23T00:35:17Z] <acheam> do you maintain them though, or just played around with them once and have left them to rot?
[2021-05-23T00:35:21Z] <dilyn> pacman 6 was released recently, it's pretty neat 
[2021-05-23T00:35:29Z] <midfavila> 170, actually, huh
[2021-05-23T00:35:30Z] <june> arch users would sell their firstborn before switching away from arch
[2021-05-23T00:35:32Z] <midfavila> and I do maintain them
[2021-05-23T00:35:34Z] <acheam> paralell downloads is cool
[2021-05-23T00:35:36Z] <noocsharp> did they add alternatives?
[2021-05-23T00:35:40Z] <midfavila> I just don't update them constantly
[2021-05-23T00:35:45Z] <dilyn> arch gives them control that a newborn child never could, June
[2021-05-23T00:35:52Z] <midfavila> if you want parallel downloads acheam you can check out my kiss-mod package and axel
[2021-05-23T00:35:54Z] <acheam> i wouldn't know because my arch laptop is so broken I can't use pacman lol
[2021-05-23T00:36:00Z] <acheam> midfavila: hm nice
[2021-05-23T00:36:01Z] <dilyn> the alternative they implemented is installing Manjaro 
[2021-05-23T00:36:03Z] <claudia> Btw, my chromium(no X, no toolkit) fails with not being able to load gpu stuff. http://ix.io/3nAP .
[2021-05-23T00:36:17Z] <midfavila> i've welded axel into kiss and removed some rarely-used scripts and docs
[2021-05-23T00:36:24Z] <dilyn> ah claudia i can help
[2021-05-23T00:36:33Z] <midfavila> that's all for now, but I intend to make more changes as I think of them
[2021-05-23T00:36:53Z] <dilyn> you have to pass '--ozone-platform=wayland --use-gl=egl' 
[2021-05-23T00:37:08Z] <midfavila> imagine using ayyland
[2021-05-23T00:37:27Z] <dilyn> why imagine when I can just open my eyes
[2021-05-23T00:37:39Z] <claudia> trying
[2021-05-23T00:37:39Z] <dilyn> also
[2021-05-23T00:37:40Z] <midfavila> right, I forgot, you're enough of a masochist to do that
[2021-05-23T00:37:41Z] <dilyn> > ayyland
[2021-05-23T00:37:42Z] <dilyn> yes
[2021-05-23T00:37:50Z] <claudia> weeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee
[2021-05-23T00:37:54Z] <dilyn> XD
[2021-05-23T00:37:56Z] <midfavila> wooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo
[2021-05-23T00:37:57Z] <claudia> thank you
[2021-05-23T00:38:01Z] <midfavila> sound of the police
[2021-05-23T00:38:14Z] <claudia> 2 days of compiling ( 3 times) not for nothing :p
[2021-05-23T00:38:38Z] <dilyn> worth it tho 
[2021-05-23T00:38:43Z] <dilyn> for the greatest browser in the multiverse
[2021-05-23T00:38:45Z] <acheam> kiss doesn't need to access any single files, right? ie; is it safe to run multiple kiss instances at the same time
[2021-05-23T00:38:50Z] <midfavila> i should start building snapshots of community packages and offering those as a repo...
[2021-05-23T00:38:54Z] <midfavila> and I believe so acheam
[2021-05-23T00:38:59Z] <acheam> thx
[2021-05-23T00:38:59Z] <midfavila> just, uh
[2021-05-23T00:39:05Z] <midfavila> don't use kiss a in the middle of one script executing
[2021-05-23T00:39:13Z] <dilyn> as long as they don't update the same package or replace critical files while they're being used... 
[2021-05-23T00:39:26Z] <acheam> sounds like you learned that from experience, mid
[2021-05-23T00:39:35Z] <midfavila> no...
[2021-05-23T00:39:38Z] <midfavila> >.>
[2021-05-23T00:39:38Z] <midfavila> <.<
[2021-05-23T00:39:52Z] <midfavila> look, I made some stupid mistakes when I started with KISS
[2021-05-23T00:39:55Z] <dilyn> lol
[2021-05-23T00:40:28Z] <midfavila> i would have stuck with CRUX but... it doesn't always install correctly
[2021-05-23T00:40:36Z] <acheam> judging by how you dont use busybox because its a single binary, mount /boot as read only...
[2021-05-23T00:40:37Z] <midfavila> and then I spent two and a half weeks working on SMGL
[2021-05-23T00:40:38Z] <acheam> yeah
[2021-05-23T00:41:56Z] <midfavila> the /boot thing is just cautiousness
[2021-05-23T00:41:59Z] <acheam> woot sbcl and ecl are both packaged
[2021-05-23T00:42:11Z] <midfavila> very cool
[2021-05-23T00:42:18Z] <midfavila> maybe I should package McCLIM and give Doors a shot...
[2021-05-23T00:42:19Z] <acheam> so is enchant, but that was pretty easy
[2021-05-23T00:42:34Z] <acheam> also did texinfo earlier today
[2021-05-23T00:42:37Z] <acheam> (i know, i know)
[2021-05-23T00:42:43Z] <midfavila> such a hard worker
[2021-05-23T00:42:48Z] <acheam> uhhh
[2021-05-23T00:42:53Z] <acheam> i have 2 exams this week
[2021-05-23T00:42:57Z] <acheam> anti hard worker
[2021-05-23T00:43:13Z] <midfavila> i mean, it was back-handed either way, but that also works
[2021-05-23T00:43:21Z] <carlosdavidepto> right before an exam is the best time to reistall arch, gentoo or kiss
[2021-05-23T00:43:34Z] <midfavila> gentoo and arch and even kiss are baby timesinks compared to SMGL
[2021-05-23T00:43:38Z] <noocsharp> ^^
[2021-05-23T00:43:44Z] <midfavila> SMGL is the only distro that somehow manages to be more tedious than LFS
[2021-05-23T00:44:24Z] <carlosdavidepto> this SMGL is new to me
[2021-05-23T00:44:27Z] <carlosdavidepto> investigating
[2021-05-23T00:44:28Z] <acheam> is smgl any good
[2021-05-23T00:44:32Z] <acheam> i've only heard bad things
[2021-05-23T00:44:45Z] <midfavila> the package manager is written in bash, prompts you about every optional and mandatory dependency for every package (recursively), and doesn't remember your choices
[2021-05-23T00:44:55Z] <midfavila> like, on a technical level, what they've done is very cool
[2021-05-23T00:45:00Z] <dilyn> why would anyone ever in the universe want that
[2021-05-23T00:45:08Z] <midfavila> but I wouldn't curse SMGL on my worst enemy
[2021-05-23T00:45:22Z] <midfavila> also it's maintained by like four people or something
[2021-05-23T00:45:28Z] <midfavila> so most of the packages are out of date and don't build
[2021-05-23T00:45:37Z] <midfavila> but they have a cool logo!!!
[2021-05-23T00:45:48Z] <acheam> KISS needs an actual logo
[2021-05-23T00:45:54Z] <midfavila> we have a logo
[2021-05-23T00:46:09Z] <acheam> i've seen like 15 different logos being used for kiss
[2021-05-23T00:46:15Z] <dilyn> |/
[2021-05-23T00:46:17Z] <dilyn> |\
[2021-05-23T00:46:23Z] <midfavila> i always associated Dylan's SVG lips with KISS
[2021-05-23T00:46:31Z] <acheam> same
[2021-05-23T00:46:32Z] <dilyn> I miss the first logo :(  
[2021-05-23T00:46:36Z] <acheam> but there is the ASCII k
[2021-05-23T00:46:38Z] <acheam> and the pfetch tux
[2021-05-23T00:46:42Z] <midfavila> if you want like
[2021-05-23T00:46:45Z] <midfavila> a fancy kiss logo
[2021-05-23T00:47:07Z] <acheam> we need soemthing good for the DVD
[2021-05-23T00:47:10Z] <midfavila> i think an old-school slanted ASCII art of KISS, with a clipart-style lipstick mark overlaid, would be cool
[2021-05-23T00:47:13Z] <acheam> and the spiral bound manual
[2021-05-23T00:47:15Z] <acheam> mmmmm
[2021-05-23T00:47:23Z] <dilyn> I like the lips because it gives me a good spot to kiss my pc every night before bed 
[2021-05-23T00:47:28Z] <midfavila> mwah
[2021-05-23T00:47:37Z] <noocsharp> you do that too1?
[2021-05-23T00:47:43Z] <midfavila> good night, xXx_1337_destroyer_xXx
[2021-05-23T00:47:55Z] <midfavila> "sleep tight, dilyn!"
[2021-05-23T00:48:03Z] <dilyn> I call this machine KISSbox for a reason
[2021-05-23T00:48:23Z] <carlosdavidepto> midfavila, smgl = sourcemage, or are we talking about something else?
[2021-05-23T00:48:27Z] <acheam> yes
[2021-05-23T00:48:29Z] <midfavila> yup
[2021-05-23T00:48:33Z] <midfavila> source mage gnu+linux
[2021-05-23T00:48:34Z] <acheam> dilyn: how does your girlfriend feel about that?
[2021-05-23T00:48:35Z] <midfavila> SMGL
[2021-05-23T00:48:37Z] <carlosdavidepto> ok then not new
[2021-05-23T00:48:43Z] <carlosdavidepto> and not interested
[2021-05-23T00:48:44Z] <dilyn> she hates it 
[2021-05-23T00:48:48Z] <dilyn> she hates everything i do 
[2021-05-23T00:48:55Z] <midfavila> sounds like a tsundere
[2021-05-23T00:49:26Z] <dilyn> it's that without the 'becoming friendlier' 
[2021-05-23T00:49:32Z] <midfavila> lmao
[2021-05-23T00:49:53Z] <midfavila> >she's a tsundere except she actually means what she says
[2021-05-23T00:49:59Z] <dilyn> :'(
[2021-05-23T00:51:18Z] <midfavila> shit, I should probably update my site
[2021-05-23T00:55:13Z] <acheam> new scrots now
[2021-05-23T00:55:24Z] * midfavila groans
[2021-05-23T00:55:31Z] <midfavila> Fiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiine
[2021-05-23T00:55:48Z] <midfavila> give me a few minutes to get imagemagick set up and remember how I did this last time...
[2021-05-23T00:56:10Z] <acheam> bruh
[2021-05-23T00:56:21Z] <acheam> just import
[2021-05-23T00:56:34Z] <midfavila> actually
[2021-05-23T00:56:40Z] <midfavila> why the fuck am I building imagemagick
[2021-05-23T00:56:45Z] <midfavila> when I have a screenshot tool and an image editor
[2021-05-23T00:56:52Z] <midfavila> brain blast moment
[2021-05-23T00:57:37Z] <dilyn> grim -o scrot.png
[2021-05-23T00:58:32Z] <acheam> does grim output to stdout without -o?
[2021-05-23T00:59:19Z] <dilyn> no it just defaults to $date_$time_grim.png
[2021-05-23T01:09:38Z] <midfavila> alright, new screenshot is up
[2021-05-23T01:09:44Z] <midfavila> dunno how the page looks in browsers yet
[2021-05-23T01:09:58Z] <midfavila> there were some technical difficulties transferring the files, hence the wait
[2021-05-23T01:11:22Z] <midfavila> ouch. yeah, that doesn't render well at all
[2021-05-23T01:11:26Z] <midfavila> gonna have to tinker with that
[2021-05-23T01:13:23Z] <midfavila> ah, I see what happened. accidentally included the new scrot in a <p>, looks like
[2021-05-23T01:19:05Z] claudia quit: Quit: zzz
[2021-05-23T01:19:44Z] illiliti joined
[2021-05-23T01:21:51Z] <acheam> nice
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[2021-05-23T01:22:05Z] <midfavila> you may be able to tell that it's very grey
[2021-05-23T01:22:11Z] <midfavila> i'm not sure if the screenshot communicated that
[2021-05-23T01:23:20Z] zenomat joined
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[2021-05-23T01:40:40Z] <midfavila> dilyn you said you had a friend that modded their Cosmos, right? how'd they go about that, again?
[2021-05-23T01:42:18Z] <dilyn> they had a buddy who owns an auto shop 
[2021-05-23T01:42:35Z] <dilyn> so they asked to borrow their powder coat room that they normally use for auto body parts 
[2021-05-23T01:42:42Z] <dilyn> lol
[2021-05-23T01:42:49Z] <midfavila> :thinking:
[2021-05-23T01:43:04Z] <midfavila> i've been considering trying to paint my Cosmos with an IMSAI or Altair color scheme
[2021-05-23T01:43:12Z] <dilyn> if you want to do it right you'll have to pop out the rivets and hang it from the ceiling
[2021-05-23T01:43:39Z] <midfavila> I see. Well, if nothing else, it would be a good summer project
[2021-05-23T01:43:58Z] <midfavila> maybe paint my keyboard and trackball to match...
[2021-05-23T01:44:16Z] <dilyn> yaaaassss
[2021-05-23T01:44:47Z] <midfavila> https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/d/d7/Altair_8800_and_Model_33_ASR_Teletype_.jpg
[2021-05-23T01:44:52Z] <midfavila> I really want to channel this sort of aesthetic
[2021-05-23T01:45:20Z] <dilyn> pertty
[2021-05-23T01:45:29Z] <midfavila> late 1960s early 1970s computing was very colorful
[2021-05-23T01:46:12Z] <midfavila> there's actually an older guy who served as part of the CAF's SIGINT branch in my class who was issued a first-gen S-100 system
[2021-05-23T01:46:21Z] <midfavila> it was really cool, talking to him about it
[2021-05-23T01:48:13Z] <midfavila> one of my fellow zoomers commented that, and I quote,
[2021-05-23T01:48:18Z] <midfavila> "it looks like star wars!"
[2021-05-23T01:48:31Z] <midfavila> it was very cringe.
[2021-05-23T01:52:19Z] m3g quit: Ping timeout: 272 seconds
[2021-05-23T02:00:08Z] <carlosdavidepto> it's fun to think that the star wars peoples can figure out space travel, but for some reason are still stuck with cathode ray tubes
[2021-05-23T02:00:47Z] <midfavila> maybe they know something about CRTs that we don't
[2021-05-23T02:01:46Z] <carlosdavidepto> all I know is that they produce tired eyes
[2021-05-23T02:02:04Z] <midfavila> CRTs *are* harsh, I'll give you that
[2021-05-23T02:03:06Z] <dilyn> they use them because they're cost effective when the whole budget goes towards star destroyers 
[2021-05-23T02:03:25Z] <midfavila> you've cracked the code dilyn
[2021-05-23T02:03:29Z] <dilyn> and the rebels are scavengers, so they can't afford the cool fun tech :(  
[2021-05-23T02:03:32Z] <carlosdavidepto> that's a good explanation
[2021-05-23T02:03:40Z] <midfavila> only the empire can afford LCDs
[2021-05-23T02:04:22Z] <carlosdavidepto> if I still had to stare at an LCD all day, I'd rebel too
[2021-05-23T02:04:31Z] <dilyn> :v 
[2021-05-23T02:04:40Z] <dilyn> give me OLED or give me death
[2021-05-23T02:04:46Z] <midfavila> right, oled is the rage with the kids these days
[2021-05-23T02:04:52Z] <midfavila> i'm content with my LCDs
[2021-05-23T02:04:58Z] <dilyn> where my color accuracy and energy efficiency at
[2021-05-23T02:05:14Z] <midfavila> mine are technically video production displays...
[2021-05-23T02:05:20Z] <midfavila> ...they're just from 2005.
[2021-05-23T02:05:36Z] <dilyn> :|
[2021-05-23T02:05:41Z] <dilyn> the newest thing mid owns 
[2021-05-23T02:05:41Z] <midfavila> more importantly, they're sturdy, cheap, and 1600x1200
[2021-05-23T02:05:48Z] <dilyn> cursed resolution 
[2021-05-23T02:05:58Z] <midfavila> no, 2048x1536 is cursed.
[2021-05-23T02:06:19Z] <carlosdavidepto> are those in actual use?
[2021-05-23T02:06:25Z] <midfavila> they were for a while
[2021-05-23T02:06:28Z] <dilyn> hng
[2021-05-23T02:06:32Z] <dilyn> 16:9 is the way 
[2021-05-23T02:06:34Z] <midfavila> a lot of people still price diamondtrons because of their res
[2021-05-23T02:06:38Z] <midfavila> 16:9 is cancerous
[2021-05-23T02:06:39Z] <midfavila> fuck off
[2021-05-23T02:06:46Z] <dilyn> ...
[2021-05-23T02:06:47Z] <dilyn> 32:9? 
[2021-05-23T02:06:50Z] <midfavila> high-res 4:3 or 5:4 
[2021-05-23T02:07:07Z] <midfavila> rectangles are simply imperfect squares.
[2021-05-23T02:07:16Z] <midfavila> ideally we'd all be using 1:1 displays
[2021-05-23T02:07:21Z] <dilyn> wtf
[2021-05-23T02:07:22Z] <midfavila> such as the one on my phone
[2021-05-23T02:07:23Z] <dilyn> no
[2021-05-23T02:07:25Z] <midfavila> yes
[2021-05-23T02:07:36Z] <dilyn> even my speakers are 16:9
[2021-05-23T02:07:43Z] <midfavila> this isn't one of your philosophy classes, this isn't up for debate
[2021-05-23T02:07:44Z] <midfavila> >:c
[2021-05-23T02:07:54Z] <dilyn> do you drink out of 1:1 cups? 
[2021-05-23T02:08:00Z] <dilyn> no, because you're not a monster
[2021-05-23T02:08:07Z] <midfavila> i make tea in a 1:1 pot
[2021-05-23T02:08:13Z] <dilyn> so why would you force your eyes to drink your desktop at such a monstrous aspect ratio
[2021-05-23T02:08:15Z] <midfavila> or, well, close to it
[2021-05-23T02:08:20Z] <dilyn> you're absolutely vile! 
[2021-05-23T02:08:21Z] <dilyn> :c
[2021-05-23T02:08:29Z] <midfavila> i'm a furry. what do you want from me. 
[2021-05-23T02:08:33Z] <dilyn> better
[2021-05-23T02:08:38Z] <midfavila> like, my being cancerous and vile is expected.
[2021-05-23T02:08:40Z] <midfavila> :v
[2021-05-23T02:08:42Z] <acheam> welp. i've gotten to a nyxt binary, but it doesn't launch
[2021-05-23T02:08:52Z] <acheam> "typelib for namespace gtk, version 3.0 not fount"
[2021-05-23T02:08:53Z] <midfavila> based and bank-pilled
[2021-05-23T02:08:54Z] <dilyn> a wha
[2021-05-23T02:08:57Z] <carlosdavidepto> i can't type and laugh at the same time guys
[2021-05-23T02:09:00Z] <midfavila> CLISP browser dilyn
[2021-05-23T02:09:07Z] <midfavila> type harder, carlos
[2021-05-23T02:09:14Z] <dilyn> why do you people do this to me 
[2021-05-23T02:09:23Z] <midfavila> my shitposting skills are legendary among #kisslinux users
[2021-05-23T02:09:30Z] <midfavila> it's okay, dilly, we love you
[2021-05-23T02:09:30Z] <dilyn> "infinitely extensible web browser" fk u
[2021-05-23T02:09:33Z] <dilyn> extend into mouse-space 
[2021-05-23T02:09:36Z] <midfavila> no
[2021-05-23T02:09:47Z] <midfavila> the only OS that makes good use of the mouse is plan 9
[2021-05-23T02:10:25Z] <dilyn> WEBKIT?!
[2021-05-23T02:10:29Z] <dilyn> it's just surf, again!
[2021-05-23T02:10:38Z] <midfavila> surf and webkit are both awful
[2021-05-23T02:11:15Z] <midfavila> surf itself is hardly a web browser
[2021-05-23T02:11:34Z] <midfavila> more of an HTML displayer. zero features that would actually be useful. and I don't buy the "just patch it"
[2021-05-23T02:11:38Z] <dilyn> what more could you possibly want from a browser than rendering web pages
[2021-05-23T02:11:44Z] <midfavila> how about
[2021-05-23T02:11:54Z] <midfavila> the ability to go to a url that I specify, during runtime
[2021-05-23T02:11:59Z] <midfavila> that would be cool
[2021-05-23T02:11:59Z] <dilyn> um
[2021-05-23T02:12:02Z] <dilyn> g
[2021-05-23T02:12:09Z] cem quit: Remote host closed the connection
[2021-05-23T02:12:19Z] <dilyn> the vim bindings must've triggered him 
[2021-05-23T02:12:30Z] <midfavila> the VI bindings
[2021-05-23T02:12:35Z] <midfavila> not your trash vim 
[2021-05-23T02:12:38Z] <dilyn> no these ones are better
[2021-05-23T02:12:41Z] <midfavila> but yes, vi bindings are cancer
[2021-05-23T02:12:42Z] <acheam> okay so my issue is something to do with gobject-introspection
[2021-05-23T02:12:51Z] <acheam> i need to use it to generate a certain file or some bs
[2021-05-23T02:12:53Z] <dilyn> disable that noise
[2021-05-23T02:13:03Z] <midfavila> this is why I just stick with gtk2
[2021-05-23T02:13:08Z] <midfavila> it Just Werks:tm:
[2021-05-23T02:13:15Z] <acheam> nyxt can build with qt
[2021-05-23T02:13:17Z] <acheam> might try that
[2021-05-23T02:13:18Z] <dilyn> file picker previews
[2021-05-23T02:13:22Z] <dilyn> problem.jpg
[2021-05-23T02:13:26Z] <midfavila> no version of gtk has that
[2021-05-23T02:13:31Z] <acheam> but oh no!
[2021-05-23T02:13:32Z] <midfavila> *somehow*
[2021-05-23T02:13:39Z] <acheam> i cant see problem.jpg in the file picker!
[2021-05-23T02:13:48Z] <dilyn> problem.tiff
[2021-05-23T02:13:55Z] <midfavila> who tf even uses tiff
[2021-05-23T02:14:01Z] <midfavila> i've never come across it in the wild
[2021-05-23T02:14:01Z] <dilyn> you, probably 
[2021-05-23T02:14:05Z] <midfavila> no
[2021-05-23T02:14:07Z] <dilyn> :v
[2021-05-23T02:14:13Z] <midfavila> i just use xpm, png, jpg and gif
[2021-05-23T02:14:25Z] <dilyn> no webp?
[2021-05-23T02:14:28Z] <midfavila> god no.
[2021-05-23T02:14:33Z] <carlosdavidepto> farbfeld?
[2021-05-23T02:14:35Z] <dilyn> all my images are rpms 
[2021-05-23T02:14:40Z] <midfavila> considering farbfeld ngl
[2021-05-23T02:14:48Z] <carlosdavidepto> of course you are :D
[2021-05-23T02:15:01Z] <dilyn> surprised bmp isn't #1
[2021-05-23T02:15:16Z] <midfavila> i don't use bmps at all
[2021-05-23T02:15:42Z] <dilyn> but your 640x480 screens crave those bits
[2021-05-23T02:15:52Z] <midfavila> my laptop might
[2021-05-23T02:16:46Z] <midfavila> totally unrelated
[2021-05-23T02:16:52Z] <midfavila> do you guys know of a good alternative to wikipedia?
[2021-05-23T02:17:20Z] <dilyn> vsauce
[2021-05-23T02:17:26Z] <dilyn> the sep
[2021-05-23T02:17:32Z] <carlosdavidepto> downloading the wiki dumps for the hard science sections and browsing localy
[2021-05-23T02:17:34Z] <dilyn> encyclopedias
[2021-05-23T02:17:48Z] <carlosdavidepto> i've been toying with this idea for a while now
[2021-05-23T02:17:50Z] <dilyn> building a time machine to see events in person 
[2021-05-23T02:17:59Z] <dilyn> did you mean: endless OS
[2021-05-23T02:18:02Z] <midfavila> i just want a good site to provide jumping-off knowledge
[2021-05-23T02:18:05Z] <midfavila> you know, like
[2021-05-23T02:18:14Z] <midfavila> how you can have known knowns, known unknowns, and unknown unknowns?
[2021-05-23T02:18:35Z] <dilyn> so you want a minimal wikipedia? 
[2021-05-23T02:18:37Z] <midfavila> well, I normally use wikipedia to help deal with the last. 
[2021-05-23T02:18:38Z] <midfavila> and yes
[2021-05-23T02:18:39Z] <midfavila> basically.
[2021-05-23T02:18:47Z] <dilyn> :thinking: 
[2021-05-23T02:18:58Z] <midfavila> tl;dr give me enough information to write search queries
[2021-05-23T02:19:03Z] <dilyn> wikipedia, ctrl+f for a string, click the reference citation, read the reference
[2021-05-23T02:19:14Z] <midfavila> wikipedia's articles are written terribly
[2021-05-23T02:19:21Z] <midfavila> and have inconsistent formatting across pages
[2021-05-23T02:19:23Z] <dilyn> hence the reference
[2021-05-23T02:19:37Z] <midfavila> eh... I guess.
[2021-05-23T02:23:34Z] <carlosdavidepto> for the purpose you mention, and as long as you stick with STEM or related fields, wikipedia should be fine
[2021-05-23T02:24:01Z] <midfavila> the STEM articles are usually written fine, but they don't work particularly well for me
[2021-05-23T02:24:15Z] <midfavila> since they assume a fair amount of technical knowledge. which, I mean, fair enough
[2021-05-23T02:25:16Z] <carlosdavidepto> https://simple.wikipedia.org/
[2021-05-23T02:25:40Z] <midfavila> = w=
[2021-05-23T02:26:55Z] <carlosdavidepto> I am not up to speed with the new IRC iconography
[2021-05-23T02:27:02Z] <carlosdavidepto> no idea what that means
[2021-05-23T02:27:18Z] <midfavila> not really IRC, but it's an exasperated expression.
[2021-05-23T02:28:20Z] <midfavila> not to be confused with - w-
[2021-05-23T02:30:13Z] <carlosdavidepto> these are not in https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_emoticons
[2021-05-23T02:30:23Z] <carlosdavidepto> you win midfavila 
[2021-05-23T02:30:35Z] <carlosdavidepto> wikipedia sucks
[2021-05-23T02:30:41Z] <midfavila> of course wikipedia sucks
[2021-05-23T02:31:15Z] <midfavila> i mean
[2021-05-23T02:31:23Z] <midfavila> holy shit, they say that >.< is a bat
[2021-05-23T02:31:30Z] <midfavila> that's... like, what
[2021-05-23T02:31:34Z] <midfavila> what boomer wrote this article
[2021-05-23T02:31:49Z] <midfavila> ...oh, no, wait, links just renders it oddly
[2021-05-23T02:32:06Z] <midfavila> still, even ignoring that, their definition isn't correct. feh.
[2021-05-23T02:32:15Z] <illiliti> does anybody know alternative to translate-shell?
[2021-05-23T02:32:27Z] <illiliti> i don't like gawk dependency
[2021-05-23T02:32:33Z] <midfavila> they don't even have :v!
[2021-05-23T02:32:57Z] <carlosdavidepto> i was looking for that one too. no dice
[2021-05-23T02:33:15Z] <midfavila> and they use uwu/UwU as "joy"
[2021-05-23T02:33:17Z] <midfavila> wt
[2021-05-23T02:33:19Z] <midfavila> wtf*
[2021-05-23T02:33:31Z] <midfavila> at least owo is correct
[2021-05-23T02:34:37Z] <midfavila> garbage article
[2021-05-23T02:34:43Z] <carlosdavidepto> if made of paper that page should be shreded
[2021-05-23T02:35:04Z] <midfavila> the hard drive that it's on will suffice as a substitute
[2021-05-23T02:35:17Z] <carlosdavidepto> and used to line the bottom of a compost pile
[2021-05-23T02:37:13Z] <midfavila> acheam sotd plox https://vid.puffyan.us/watch?v=Xb4gPLEp6V0
[2021-05-23T02:42:14Z] <carlosdavidepto> urban dictionary is telling me that :V is "A random face Spanish or Portuguese people love to spam online for no reason at all."
[2021-05-23T02:42:27Z] <midfavila> :v is laughter
[2021-05-23T02:42:35Z] <midfavila> :V is uproarious laughter
[2021-05-23T02:43:01Z] <midfavila> prepend > to add an element of frustration
[2021-05-23T02:43:26Z] <midfavila> >:v would be like, mildly irritated laughter, for example
[2021-05-23T02:44:00Z] <carlosdavidepto> well, thank you for the explanations
[2021-05-23T02:44:05Z] <carlosdavidepto> but the more pressing issue is
[2021-05-23T02:44:19Z] <carlosdavidepto> I'm portuguese and I was not notified
[2021-05-23T02:44:30Z] <midfavila> you have a national duty 
[2021-05-23T02:44:33Z] <midfavila> to spam :v
[2021-05-23T02:44:41Z] <midfavila> :VVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVV
[2021-05-23T02:45:11Z] <dilyn> v:
[2021-05-23T02:46:06Z] <carlosdavidepto> i guess i will consider this newly found national duty tomorrow
[2021-05-23T02:46:16Z] <carlosdavidepto> first wikipedia, now this
[2021-05-23T02:46:25Z] <carlosdavidepto> too much disapointment for one sitting
[2021-05-23T02:46:34Z] <midfavila> revelation after revelation from me
[2021-05-23T02:47:01Z] <carlosdavidepto> my national duty for now is to go to bed
[2021-05-23T02:47:08Z] <midfavila> i should sleep soon myself
[2021-05-23T02:47:14Z] <midfavila> it's almost menight
[2021-05-23T02:48:10Z] <carlosdavidepto> may you all have a good night
[2021-05-23T02:48:16Z] <midfavila> see you!
[2021-05-23T02:48:26Z] carlosdavidepto parted: Leaving
[2021-05-23T03:01:38Z] <midfavila> I think it's about time for me to sleep, too
[2021-05-23T03:01:57Z] <midfavila> starting to fuck up typing. that's always a good indicator that I need to sleep
[2021-05-23T03:06:18Z] <acheam> early today, eh?
[2021-05-23T03:06:21Z] <acheam> well, good night
[2021-05-23T03:12:40Z] Uks2 quit: Read error: Connection reset by peer
[2021-05-23T03:12:55Z] Uks2 joined
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[2021-05-23T03:56:37Z] <testuser[m]> hi
[2021-05-23T03:59:29Z] <m3g> hello
[2021-05-23T04:09:54Z] <acheam> hi testuser[m] 
[2021-05-23T04:11:01Z] ithuriel quit: Ping timeout: 272 seconds
[2021-05-23T04:12:27Z] <acheam> testuser[m]: you're pretty knowlegeable about this kind of stuff, any idea of how to resolve a "typelib file not found for namespace GTK" error?
[2021-05-23T04:12:41Z] aws changed nick to aws_
[2021-05-23T04:12:47Z] <acheam> it has something to do with gobject-introspection AFAICT
[2021-05-23T04:13:25Z] <testuser[m]> what program are you getting that with ? never seen that error before
[2021-05-23T04:13:36Z] <acheam> nyxt browser
[2021-05-23T04:14:01Z] <acheam> (whatever it is its my fault, its my own package)
[2021-05-23T04:14:09Z] <testuser[m]> it it required gobject introspection then the build would've failed anyway cuz it'll need gtk pango cairo everything built with gobject
[2021-05-23T04:14:13Z] <testuser[m]> hmm
[2021-05-23T04:16:07Z] <testuser[m]> arch deps for nytx list gobject-introspection-runtime as a make time dependency and it doesn't need you to rebuild everything looking at deps
[2021-05-23T04:16:10Z] <testuser[m]> maybe try building that
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[2021-05-23T04:16:37Z] <acheam> I have that built
[2021-05-23T04:16:45Z] <acheam> thanks for taking a look
[2021-05-23T04:17:35Z] <acheam> I just can't figure out how to create the gtk typelib file
[2021-05-23T04:18:04Z] <acheam> there are lots of typelib files in /usr/lib/girepository-1.0/ for things like Vulkan, cairo, etc, just not for GTK
[2021-05-23T04:18:35Z] <testuser[m]> try building gtk with gobject then https://github.com/eudaldgr/kiss-garbage/tree/master/gfx#kiss-hooks
[2021-05-23T04:19:01Z] <acheam> ah thats perfect, thanks!
[2021-05-23T04:19:28Z] <testuser[m]> np
[2021-05-23T04:36:27Z] <acheam> hmm i think i'm going to need to path nyxt somehow
[2021-05-23T04:36:49Z] <acheam> because building GTK with introspection requires building pango with introspection, which requires building harfbuzz with introspection, etc etc
[2021-05-23T04:36:54Z] <testuser[m]> yeah
[2021-05-23T04:37:47Z] <testuser[m]> hmm but it might be tied together closely since 
[2021-05-23T04:37:48Z] <testuser[m]> GObject introspection is a middleware layer between C libraries (using GObject) and language bindings. The C library can be scanned at compile time and generate metadata files, in addition to the actual native C library. Then language bindings can read this metadata and automatically provide bindings to call into the C library.
[2021-05-23T04:38:32Z] <testuser[m]> have you checked lariza ?
[2021-05-23T04:39:04Z] <acheam> never heard of it
[2021-05-23T04:39:14Z] <acheam> looks good
[2021-05-23T04:39:24Z] <acheam> you have it packaged?
[2021-05-23T04:39:51Z] <acheam> shouldn't be too hard
[2021-05-23T04:40:05Z] <testuser[m]> its in community
[2021-05-23T04:40:48Z] <acheam> why didn't I think to check there lol
[2021-05-23T04:48:12Z] <acheam> hmm lariza seems a bit too simple? But could be super fun to hack on
[2021-05-23T04:48:25Z] <acheam> will try using it as my only browser in the next few days
[2021-05-23T04:48:32Z] <acheam> even though I am worried about how not-private it is
[2021-05-23T04:50:51Z] <testuser[m]> how can it be less private than other webkit browsers
[2021-05-23T04:50:55Z] <testuser[m]> does nyxt have addons
[2021-05-23T04:51:26Z] <acheam> its extensible in common lisp, and web extensions are on the roadmap
[2021-05-23T04:51:29Z] <acheam> which is huge for me
[2021-05-23T04:51:40Z] <acheam> because of things like umatrix, canvas blocker, etc
[2021-05-23T04:52:11Z] <acheam> to answer your question, it isn't
[2021-05-23T04:52:22Z] <acheam> but nyxt has more fine grained control over user agent spoofing and stuff
[2021-05-23T04:52:40Z] <acheam> although i'm sure thats easy to play around with in lariza source code
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[2021-05-23T11:46:16Z] <testuser[m]> y'all ever spend like 10 hours debugging something and the fix turns out to be as trivial as
[2021-05-23T11:46:20Z] <testuser[m]> https://git.git-bruh.duckdns.org/kiss-repo/commit/04bbbb78b51ba2fd84d95d23892c1972c699584e.html
[2021-05-23T11:46:25Z] <testuser[m]> 1 missing line
[2021-05-23T11:47:07Z] <testuser[m]> btw claudia you might be interested in the patch (ff without xlibs)
[2021-05-23T11:49:58Z] <claudia> o/
[2021-05-23T11:50:31Z] <claudia> Nice! Did you figure this yourself?
[2021-05-23T11:56:25Z] <testuser[m]> https://github.com/xhebox/noname-linux/blob/master/ports/firefox/no-x11.patch
[2021-05-23T11:56:27Z] <testuser[m]> updated this one
[2021-05-23T11:56:48Z] <testuser[m]> they refactored a lot of code that this patch touches
[2021-05-23T11:57:11Z] * claudia inserts rocket emoji
[2021-05-23T11:59:13Z] <testuser[m]> dunno if ff works well though, will test it out a  it
[2021-05-23T11:59:16Z] <testuser[m]> bit
[2021-05-23T12:00:27Z] Dead joined
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[2021-05-23T12:38:04Z] <testuser[m]> seems to be fine except for webrender
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[2021-05-23T13:03:04Z] <claudia> testuser[m]: which webrender option did you tried? For me "webrender all" does not work(crashes iirc). Only "webrender enabled"
[2021-05-23T13:05:37Z] <testuser[m]> webrender.all or MOZ_WEBRENDER=1 just shows a blank/transparent window
[2021-05-23T13:06:02Z] <testuser[m]> dunno if its due to the patch, or a pozilla moment or if its due to my eglstreams wlroots
[2021-05-23T13:06:05Z] <testuser[m]> probably the 3rd 
[2021-05-23T13:06:16Z] <testuser[m]> will check with xlibs
[2021-05-23T13:06:28Z] <schillingklaus> why does #kisslinux not name itself simply #kiss?
[2021-05-23T13:10:08Z] <acheam> kiss was taken on freenode
[2021-05-23T13:10:17Z] <acheam> and we just migrated the same name over here
[2021-05-23T13:11:51Z] <claudia> testuser[m]: I will try your build soon. Have to build rust etc first.
[2021-05-23T13:14:46Z] <testuser[m]> my build uses lld for lto and stuff so maybe you'd wanna just take the wayland configure options from `build`
[2021-05-23T13:21:21Z] <claudia> So its just '--with-default-toolkit=cairo-gtk3-wayland' as usual and wayland.patch?
[2021-05-23T13:22:46Z] <testuser[m]> ye and --disable-webrtc
[2021-05-23T13:24:52Z] <testuser[m]> dilyn: i think ff has a false dependency on libvpx since in build it uses '--without-system-libvpx'
[2021-05-23T13:33:23Z] schillingklaus quit: Quit: schillingklaus
[2021-05-23T13:38:17Z] <claudia> acheam: for lariza checkout the manpages. They give some environment variables to configure.
[2021-05-23T13:43:37Z] <acheam> ye I saw those
[2021-05-23T14:00:29Z] <acheam> so whats the favored way of managing user services? Like the gpg-agent and emacs-daemon, syncthing, etc
[2021-05-23T14:00:54Z] <midfavila> i suggest sysmgr
[2021-05-23T14:01:02Z] <acheam> cem's thing?
[2021-05-23T14:01:08Z] <midfavila> i think so
[2021-05-23T14:01:28Z] <midfavila> you could also go full-on sysvinit and write a bunch of scripts to manage services
[2021-05-23T14:01:45Z] <acheam> nah
[2021-05-23T14:02:03Z] <acheam> cem: you've got some format overflow warnings on your sprintf's in sysmgr
[2021-05-23T14:02:16Z] <testuser[m]> i just stick with busybox tools
[2021-05-23T14:02:55Z] <acheam> so sv?
[2021-05-23T14:03:00Z] <testuser[m]> yea
[2021-05-23T14:04:18Z] <acheam> isn't that system wide?
[2021-05-23T14:04:33Z] <acheam> or do you just put the service files in a different place?
[2021-05-23T14:04:36Z] <testuser[m]> claudia: webrender is broken even with xlibs. now your testing will confirm if its a pozilla moment or not
[2021-05-23T14:04:38Z] <testuser[m]> wdym acheam
[2021-05-23T14:04:47Z] <midfavila> oh wait what
[2021-05-23T14:04:47Z] <acheam> like, in systemd, you have systemd --user
[2021-05-23T14:04:52Z] <midfavila> you mean user-specific services
[2021-05-23T14:04:53Z] <midfavila> uhhhhh
[2021-05-23T14:04:56Z] <testuser[m]> you can do that
[2021-05-23T14:04:58Z] <testuser[m]> chpst
[2021-05-23T14:05:08Z] <midfavila> shit, I've never even bothered with that.
[2021-05-23T14:05:34Z] <testuser[m]> https://termbin.com/97cc
[2021-05-23T14:06:04Z] <acheam> ah cool thanks
[2021-05-23T14:06:17Z] <acheam> midfavila: normally I wouldn't, but this is a multi-user system
[2021-05-23T14:06:41Z] <midfavila> i was thinking about multi-user systems in bed last night
[2021-05-23T14:06:52Z] <acheam> this is a SFW channel mid
[2021-05-23T14:06:52Z] <midfavila> it seems like the concept of a "house computer" or "family computer" is kaput
[2021-05-23T14:07:00Z] <acheam> yeah pretty much
[2021-05-23T14:07:09Z] <midfavila> the only computers I fantasize about are the IMSAI and protogen
[2021-05-23T14:07:16Z] <midfavila> so you're safe either way
[2021-05-23T14:07:17Z] <acheam> but this computer has all the family photos and stuff on it
[2021-05-23T14:07:33Z] <midfavila> >not setting it up as an FTP server
[2021-05-23T14:07:40Z] <midfavila> the absolute state of acheam
[2021-05-23T14:07:44Z] <acheam> ive tried
[2021-05-23T14:08:15Z] <acheam> its too slow for my parents, which is understandable
[2021-05-23T14:08:30Z] <midfavila> "NO! I want my photos NOW! Not in one second!"
[2021-05-23T14:08:32Z] <acheam> we have a crappy LAN setup, and we have 500gb of photos
[2021-05-23T14:08:37Z] <midfavila> oh
[2021-05-23T14:08:41Z] <midfavila> that's actually kind of fair.
[2021-05-23T14:08:46Z] <acheam> yeah
[2021-05-23T14:08:51Z] <acheam> as much as I dislike that its fair
[2021-05-23T14:09:10Z] <midfavila> speaking of LAN stuff, I really need to get cable crimpers...
[2021-05-23T14:09:26Z] <acheam> can someone remind me why tf I formatted this drive as exfat?
[2021-05-23T14:09:28Z] <midfavila> i have this massive 100ft cat5e cable that I've been thinking of splitting
[2021-05-23T14:09:35Z] <midfavila> because you like your file systems thicc acheam
[2021-05-23T14:09:45Z] <midfavila> extra thicc
[2021-05-23T14:09:48Z] <acheam> yeah but now I have to build it into the kernel :(
[2021-05-23T14:10:03Z] <midfavila> format the drive
[2021-05-23T14:10:06Z] <midfavila> for great justice
[2021-05-23T14:10:11Z] <midfavila> "accidentally" lose the family photos
[2021-05-23T14:10:15Z] <acheam> lol
[2021-05-23T14:11:25Z] <midfavila> the more I think about it, the less I like function prototypes
[2021-05-23T14:13:27Z] <acheam> i dont really use them
[2021-05-23T14:13:36Z] <midfavila> i don't think I will, either
[2021-05-23T14:13:42Z] <acheam> my programs are simple enough that I can just put the functions in the order I need them
[2021-05-23T14:14:13Z] <midfavila> i mean, I just don't see the point of them
[2021-05-23T14:14:13Z] <acheam> I also don't do full header files
[2021-05-23T14:14:16Z] <midfavila> like, wowee
[2021-05-23T14:14:22Z] <midfavila> we can keep main as the first function in the file
[2021-05-23T14:14:24Z] <midfavila> amazing
[2021-05-23T14:14:31Z] <acheam> well with complex control flow, you need them
[2021-05-23T14:14:56Z] <midfavila> uh...huh. 
[2021-05-23T14:15:09Z] <midfavila> why's that? conditional definition or something?
[2021-05-23T14:15:20Z] <acheam> like, say you have function A, B, and main
[2021-05-23T14:15:30Z] <acheam> main calls B which calls A which calls B
[2021-05-23T14:15:44Z] <midfavila> Ah, okay
[2021-05-23T14:15:46Z] <acheam> if you define them A B main it wont compile because A needs to know function B
[2021-05-23T14:15:49Z] <midfavila> I see what you mean, then.
[2021-05-23T14:15:51Z] <claudia> testuser[m]: In ~5-10h I will report.
[2021-05-23T14:16:03Z] <acheam> I think thats true at least
[2021-05-23T14:16:10Z] <midfavila> yeah
[2021-05-23T14:16:14Z] <midfavila> sounds about right
[2021-05-23T14:16:48Z] <midfavila> i think I'm just going to spend today tidying my apartment and reading K&R
[2021-05-23T14:17:08Z] <midfavila> the past few days have been busy .-.
[2021-05-23T14:17:45Z] <jslick> tis called mutual recursion
[2021-05-23T14:18:09Z] <midfavila> i've heard that C handles recursion poorly
[2021-05-23T14:18:15Z] <testuser[m]> claudia what hardware do you have ?
[2021-05-23T14:18:20Z] <testuser[m]> ff builds in 20 mins here lol
[2021-05-23T14:18:39Z] <acheam> midfavila: how dare you disparage my perfect hardware!?!?!?!?
[2021-05-23T14:18:53Z] <acheam> damn takes me like 40 min
[2021-05-23T14:18:53Z] <midfavila> nani
[2021-05-23T14:19:03Z] <acheam> s/hardware/programming language/g
[2021-05-23T14:19:11Z] <testuser[m]> movbz ded
[2021-05-23T14:19:19Z] <testuser[m]> or whatever its name was
[2021-05-23T14:19:20Z] <midfavila> if I wanted to write a heavily recursive program I'd just use Scheme
[2021-05-23T14:19:39Z] <midfavila> given... you know
[2021-05-23T14:19:42Z] <claudia> The machine currently buildin is 3rd gen i7. Its a quadcore with 8gb ram.
[2021-05-23T14:19:43Z] <cem> acheam: Yeah, I need to fix lots of issues with sysmgr at some point. You can also use the previous POSIX sh version at https://github.com/cemkeylan/sysmgr it's more stable
[2021-05-23T14:19:44Z] <jslick> C handles recursion just fine.  The language lacks tail recursion optimization, but sometimes the compiler can optimize for it.  I guess it's "poor" from the aspect of some functional languages
[2021-05-23T14:19:45Z] <midfavila> tail-call optimization is a thing there.
[2021-05-23T14:19:58Z] <claudia> Double the power of my daily driver.
[2021-05-23T14:20:28Z] <testuser[m]> nice
[2021-05-23T14:29:22Z] <testuser[m]> what irc client are you using acheam
[2021-05-23T14:30:19Z] kernelc joined
[2021-05-23T14:32:31Z] <acheam> testuser[m]: circe
[2021-05-23T14:32:32Z] <acheam> in emacs
[2021-05-23T14:32:34Z] Guest97 joined
[2021-05-23T14:32:42Z] <acheam> but catgirl is my fav non-emacs client
[2021-05-23T14:33:43Z] <testuser[m]> nice
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[2021-05-23T14:39:12Z] <acheam> cem: hmm thanks
[2021-05-23T14:39:12Z] <acheam> uhh
[2021-05-23T14:39:12Z] <acheam> is anyone else getting an SSL error on github
[2021-05-23T14:39:12Z] <acheam> other sites load fine for me
[2021-05-23T14:39:13Z] <dilyn> kiwiirc is obviously the way 
[2021-05-23T14:41:32Z] <acheam> I wonder how hard it would be to take the UI of badwolf and the keyboard shortcuts and stuff of surf, and just kind of smash them togethor
[2021-05-23T14:41:45Z] <acheam> given theyre both webkit2gtk
[2021-05-23T14:44:35Z] cem quit: Quit: Leaving.
[2021-05-23T14:46:05Z] <midfavila> i tried badwolf
[2021-05-23T14:46:24Z] <midfavila> it was interesting enough, except that it suffered from the same not-working-ness of every webkit browser
[2021-05-23T14:47:19Z] <acheam> i'm playing around with surfer now
[2021-05-23T14:47:21Z] <acheam> no, not surg
[2021-05-23T14:47:23Z] <acheam> surf
[2021-05-23T14:47:31Z] <midfavila> surg
[2021-05-23T14:47:48Z] <midfavila> ...okay, side note
[2021-05-23T14:47:58Z] <midfavila> first major addition I make to WindowLab? it's gonna be virtual desktops
[2021-05-23T14:48:12Z] <midfavila> because I'm already starting to feel cramped, even with three monitors
[2021-05-23T14:48:13Z] <midfavila> >.<
[2021-05-23T14:55:21Z] <acheam> claudia: do you still use wyeb? I can't get hints to work
[2021-05-23T14:59:36Z] <ang> trying to compile linux 5.12, I get this: https://termbin.com/8w4g
[2021-05-23T14:59:39Z] <ang> anyone an idea?
[2021-05-23T15:00:15Z] <dilyn> https://k1sslinux.org/news/20210507a
[2021-05-23T15:00:39Z] <acheam> we need a bot that listens for "5.12" and sends that link
[2021-05-23T15:00:44Z] <acheam> zr can you get on that?
[2021-05-23T15:00:54Z] <ang> dilyn, thanks
[2021-05-23T15:01:09Z] <ang> I actually remember reading that post now
[2021-05-23T15:01:39Z] <dilyn> > we need a bot 
[2021-05-23T15:01:40Z] <dilyn> it's me 
[2021-05-23T15:01:42Z] <dilyn> I'm the bot 
[2021-05-23T15:02:54Z] <ang> should probably be mentioned in the install instructions
[2021-05-23T15:06:30Z] <ang> trying to install kiss on a thinkpad but I'm getting a blank screen :I
[2021-05-23T15:06:40Z] <ang> according to multiple wikis, my config should be good
[2021-05-23T15:07:04Z] <ang> now trying a vanilla 5.12 vs a ck patched 5.10
[2021-05-23T15:09:46Z] <ang> I tried things like nomodeset and acpi_osi=Linux. If this kernel does not work I'm out ideas
[2021-05-23T15:09:58Z] <ang> out of*
[2021-05-23T15:10:24Z] <midfavila> stupid question
[2021-05-23T15:10:29Z] <midfavila> have you acquired necessary firmware
[2021-05-23T15:13:36Z] <acheam> fun fact
[2021-05-23T15:13:44Z] <acheam> i've wasted my time eliminating browsers without link hints
[2021-05-23T15:13:58Z] <acheam> because I can just use lariza's link hint userscript on any browser
[2021-05-23T15:14:19Z] <acheam> surf looks like a very real possibility now
[2021-05-23T15:15:00Z] <ang> midfavila, don't think anything is required for booting
[2021-05-23T15:15:19Z] <midfavila> sure, but you might need your GPU's firmware, if that's applicable
[2021-05-23T15:15:27Z] <midfavila> if you haven't got the firmware... that explains the black screen.
[2021-05-23T15:16:29Z] <ang> it's an intel igpu
[2021-05-23T15:16:34Z] <ang> let me look at dmesg (again)
[2021-05-23T15:18:02Z] midfavila quit: Quit: Leaving.
[2021-05-23T15:18:55Z] <dilyn> it could be a couople of things 
[2021-05-23T15:19:28Z] <strajder> @ang also keep in mind that linux 5.12 is bugged in general because of the "hypocrite commits" by University of Minnesota
[2021-05-23T15:20:04Z] <ang> it's definitely not reaching userspace, I've tried echo'ing to a file from /etc/rc.d
[2021-05-23T15:20:22Z] <dilyn> https://github.com/dilyn-corner/KISS-me/blob/b0a1ab67a8912ca342811c5777d30ca8e8e3bd53/core/linux/files/config#L2148 + https://github.com/dilyn-corner/KISS-me/blob/b0a1ab67a8912ca342811c5777d30ca8e8e3bd53/core/linux/files/config#L1893
[2021-05-23T15:20:38Z] <aws> what kind of known issue do the hypocrite commits bring to the 5.12
[2021-05-23T15:20:43Z] <dilyn> those were my graphics things for UEFI+intel gpu 
[2021-05-23T15:20:44Z] <aws> do they just exist and we don't know ?
[2021-05-23T15:20:58Z] <dilyn> weren't all the hypocrite commits rolled back/reverted/fixed? 
[2021-05-23T15:21:02Z] <strajder> https://linux.slashdot.org/story/21/05/21/2041216/linux-513-reverts-and-fixes-problematic-university-of-minnesota-patches
[2021-05-23T15:21:21Z] <ang> thanks, dilyn
[2021-05-23T15:21:24Z] <ang> will compare in a sec
[2021-05-23T15:22:44Z] <ang> black screen was on 5.10
[2021-05-23T15:22:59Z] <ang> because I kinda ran out of things to try, I'm not compiling 5.12 without patches
[2021-05-23T15:23:13Z] <ang> s/not/now/
[2021-05-23T15:39:41Z] <ang> yay, vanilla 5.12 worked
[2021-05-23T15:41:46Z] <dilyn> yay!
[2021-05-23T15:49:13Z] <acheam> woot
[2021-05-23T15:53:08Z] <ang> only difference is the version, no patches and not using the in-kernel commandline *shrugs*
[2021-05-23T15:53:42Z] aws quit: Quit: aws
[2021-05-23T15:54:06Z] aws_ changed nick to aws
[2021-05-23T15:57:46Z] strajder quit: Ping timeout: 264 seconds
[2021-05-23T15:58:22Z] aws quit: Ping timeout: 244 seconds
[2021-05-23T15:58:35Z] aws joined
[2021-05-23T15:59:00Z] <dilyn> could be a lot of things. 5.12 changed quite a bit of stuff 
[2021-05-23T16:00:36Z] kqz joined
[2021-05-23T16:01:16Z] <acheam> woot
[2021-05-23T16:01:29Z] <acheam> just added toggleable javascript, and vi-like scrolling to lariza
[2021-05-23T16:01:48Z] <acheam> lariza has very clean code, its fun to hack on
[2021-05-23T16:02:25Z] <testuser[m]> didnt that exist already
[2021-05-23T16:02:33Z] <testuser[m]> maybe im thinking of badwolf re togglable hs
[2021-05-23T16:02:35Z] <testuser[m]> js
[2021-05-23T16:06:08Z] <acheam> ye
[2021-05-23T16:06:36Z] <acheam> I'm going to copy its buttons for images and js idea as well
[2021-05-23T16:07:53Z] Sweets joined
[2021-05-23T16:16:36Z] <testuser[m]> hi Sweets 
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[2021-05-23T16:34:25Z] <claudia> acheam: I have tested wyeb recently in a wayland session, and hints showed up normal(f).
[2021-05-23T16:34:46Z] <acheam> hmm odd
[2021-05-23T16:34:56Z] <acheam> anyways, I've moved on
[2021-05-23T16:35:25Z] <claudia> Do you upload your lariza somewhere so I could have a look? :v
[2021-05-23T16:35:55Z] <acheam> not yet. git clone isn't working from the upstream (already emailed then about it)
[2021-05-23T16:36:08Z] <acheam> so once I can clone it and commit my changes I'll share them
[2021-05-23T16:36:24Z] <claudia> nice.
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[2021-05-23T17:36:46Z] aws quit: Read error: Connection reset by peer
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[2021-05-23T17:47:00Z] <midfavila> anyone having trouble building hummingbird-init from community?
[2021-05-23T17:47:51Z] <midfavila> spits out an error for line 79 of shutdown.c, reading 512 bytes from a region of size 64
[2021-05-23T17:50:09Z] <midfavila> changing it to 64 instead of 512 fixes it, but it'd be nice if other people could confirm
[2021-05-23T18:00:23Z] <dilyn> cannot reproduce
[2021-05-23T18:00:26Z] <kqz> same
[2021-05-23T18:00:27Z] <midfavila> weird.
[2021-05-23T18:00:49Z] <midfavila> is hummingbird autoreaping for you guys, while we're on the topic of hummingbird?
[2021-05-23T18:01:11Z] <dilyn> i'm just using baseinit atm but was it not fixed? 
[2021-05-23T18:01:24Z] <midfavila> it was bandaid'd at first
[2021-05-23T18:01:26Z] <dilyn> just ask Sweets: lol
[2021-05-23T18:01:29Z] <midfavila> so like, it *can* reap now
[2021-05-23T18:01:39Z] <midfavila> but at least using my current setup I have to manually poke it
[2021-05-23T18:01:56Z] <midfavila> was just curious if anyone else was experiencing that.
[2021-05-23T18:22:25Z] <testuser[m]> what cflags midfavila 
[2021-05-23T18:22:41Z] <midfavila> -O2 -march=native -w - pipe -fstack-protector
[2021-05-23T18:22:44Z] <midfavila> nothing crazy.
[2021-05-23T18:32:37Z] <dilyn> without actually reading anything
[2021-05-23T18:32:41Z] <dilyn> your problem is probably with dd
[2021-05-23T18:33:13Z] <midfavila> >dd
[2021-05-23T18:47:07Z] <aws> yeah he added reap support
[2021-05-23T18:54:16Z] <aws> there it's mentioned https://github.com/Sweets/hummingbird/issues/15#issuecomment-828139296
[2021-05-23T18:54:53Z] <midfavila> yeah, I know about that issue
[2021-05-23T18:55:05Z] <midfavila> i'm the "friend that uses FVWM"
[2021-05-23T18:55:57Z] schillingklaus joined
[2021-05-23T18:58:01Z] <claudia> testuser[m]: Firefox without xlibs works just fine. 
[2021-05-23T18:58:10Z] Sweets quit: Quit: leaving
[2021-05-23T18:58:43Z] <schillingklaus> sounds waylandish
[2021-05-23T18:58:56Z] <midfavila> smells like poettering
[2021-05-23T18:59:00Z] <midfavila> hmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm
[2021-05-23T19:00:00Z] <claudia> My flags in about:config 'gfx.webrender.enabled' and 'layers.acceleration.force-enabled' . This ones I usually have in any other builds too.
[2021-05-23T19:00:37Z] midfavila quit: Quit: Leaving.
[2021-05-23T19:00:59Z] midfavila joined
[2021-05-23T19:03:41Z] Sweets joined
[2021-05-23T19:03:43Z] <Sweets> hmm
[2021-05-23T19:03:49Z] <Sweets> Test?
[2021-05-23T19:04:25Z] <Sweets> Wait, can y'all see my messages?
[2021-05-23T19:04:48Z] <schillingklaus> maybe?
[2021-05-23T19:04:55Z] <Sweets> sadge
[2021-05-23T19:05:08Z] <midfavila> i don't think we can 
[2021-05-23T19:05:26Z] <Sweets> lol hol up, nobody got any of my messages from the last like 2 hours?
[2021-05-23T19:05:32Z] <midfavila> ...wait what
[2021-05-23T19:05:34Z] <midfavila> uh, no
[2021-05-23T19:05:35Z] <midfavila> lmao
[2021-05-23T19:05:36Z] <Sweets> lmaaoooo
[2021-05-23T19:05:41Z] <midfavila> unironically you've been dead silent
[2021-05-23T19:05:42Z] <midfavila> check the logs
[2021-05-23T19:05:54Z] <Sweets> aight well I was talking, and for whatever reason y'all weren't getting the messages
[2021-05-23T19:05:58Z] <Sweets> like, I'd see them pop up on my end
[2021-05-23T19:06:05Z] <Sweets> and nobody would reply to me, it was hurtin' the old feelings
[2021-05-23T19:06:17Z] <midfavila> you might have been timing out a lot
[2021-05-23T19:06:17Z] <Sweets> anyways, midfavila, you still having problems with hummingbird?
[2021-05-23T19:06:38Z] <midfavila> well, "problems' in that it wasn't behaving the way I expected, but after peeking at the source I think I've got it working
[2021-05-23T19:06:53Z] <midfavila> just had to adjust an allocation under shutdown.c 
[2021-05-23T19:07:01Z] <midfavila> and use a while loop to reap
[2021-05-23T19:07:03Z] <Sweets> I did see that you were having a problem with seed_rng_device(), I pushed an update that fixed that
[2021-05-23T19:07:06Z] * midfavila shrugs
[2021-05-23T19:07:09Z] <midfavila> cool stuff
[2021-05-23T19:07:23Z] <Sweets> As for the reaping, it should be reaping when pid 1 gets SIGCHLD, since the signal handler is attached
[2021-05-23T19:07:37Z] <Sweets> What did you mean earlier by you having to "poke it"?
[2021-05-23T19:07:47Z] <midfavila> previously mentioned while-loop
[2021-05-23T19:07:50Z] <midfavila> er, in shell, to be clear
[2021-05-23T19:07:53Z] <Sweets> thunk.
[2021-05-23T19:08:01Z] <midfavila> spammed it with 5000+ SIGCHLDs
[2021-05-23T19:08:03Z] <midfavila> and that worked
[2021-05-23T19:08:04Z] <midfavila> :V
[2021-05-23T19:08:05Z] <Sweets> yeah, you shouldn't have to do that though
[2021-05-23T19:08:35Z] <Sweets> guess thus is the biproduct of rewriting the whole codebase though
[2021-05-23T19:08:43Z] <Sweets> I'll double check everything and make sure reaping is done correctly
[2021-05-23T19:09:22Z] <midfavila> +1
[2021-05-23T19:09:34Z] <midfavila> I would tinker on it myself, but... 
[2021-05-23T19:09:46Z] <midfavila> well, if you've seen the logs, you know why.
[2021-05-23T19:10:13Z] <Sweets> in between working on my blog and watching youtube videos, I really haven't. enlighten me?
[2021-05-23T19:11:53Z] <midfavila> tl;dr
[2021-05-23T19:11:59Z] <midfavila> i'm not a programmer
[2021-05-23T19:12:18Z] <midfavila> been reading SICP and K&R on and off for a few months, writing some toys, but not enough to actually contribute in any useful way
[2021-05-23T19:12:20Z] <Sweets> also, @dilyn, dd is no longer used in hummingbird; everything that can be done without shell is now done in the main source
[2021-05-23T19:12:27Z] <Sweets> got you
[2021-05-23T19:12:35Z] <midfavila> however!
[2021-05-23T19:12:38Z] <midfavila> this is going to change
[2021-05-23T19:12:48Z] <Sweets> Well I look forward to it then
[2021-05-23T19:12:53Z] <ang> <Sweet> lol hol up, nobody got any of my messages from the last like 2 hours?
[2021-05-23T19:12:56Z] <midfavila> i have decided to fork and clean up an older window manager
[2021-05-23T19:13:06Z] <ang> see, this is why the ircv3 echo-message feature is nice
[2021-05-23T19:13:22Z] <Sweets> what wm, mid?
[2021-05-23T19:13:29Z] <midfavila> WindowLab
[2021-05-23T19:13:35Z] <midfavila> it forked from aewm itself
[2021-05-23T19:13:48Z] <midfavila> it has some really nice features, and it's a smallish codebase
[2021-05-23T19:13:51Z] <Sweets> and yeah, ang, but honestly if I had more than 3 neurons all firing at once, maybe I would have noticed sooner
[2021-05-23T19:13:52Z] <midfavila> around 2500 sloc
[2021-05-23T19:13:54Z] <Sweets> but im dum
[2021-05-23T19:13:59Z] <schillingklaus> windowlab is mouse-friendly, so not my choice
[2021-05-23T19:14:06Z] <ang> lol, Sweets
[2021-05-23T19:14:09Z] <ang> also true
[2021-05-23T19:14:14Z] <midfavila> i'm going to be implementing keyboard shortcuts that aren't awful
[2021-05-23T19:14:14Z] <midfavila> so
[2021-05-23T19:14:20Z] <midfavila> that's going to be a thing.
[2021-05-23T19:14:30Z] <Sweets> soon I'm going to start work on a macos wm
[2021-05-23T19:15:05Z] <dilyn> why use syscalls when you can rely on dd :v 
[2021-05-23T19:15:12Z] <Sweets> faster
[2021-05-23T19:15:20Z] <Sweets> hummingbird is built for speed, after all
[2021-05-23T19:15:34Z] cem joined
[2021-05-23T19:16:40Z] <midfavila> oh, actually
[2021-05-23T19:16:44Z] <Sweets> also, dd is part of coreutils, which I can't necessarily guarantee exist in the system
[2021-05-23T19:16:46Z] <midfavila> Sweets, I've seen a few MacOS-style WMs
[2021-05-23T19:16:49Z] <Sweets> especially not in an embedded system
[2021-05-23T19:16:54Z] <midfavila> are you looking at modern or class MacOS?
[2021-05-23T19:17:04Z] <Sweets> No, I mean, I'm making a wm _for_ macOS
[2021-05-23T19:17:12Z] <midfavila> ...oooooh.
[2021-05-23T19:17:15Z] <Sweets> ye
[2021-05-23T19:17:17Z] <midfavila> I keep forgetting that you can like...
[2021-05-23T19:17:18Z] <midfavila> do that.
[2021-05-23T19:17:27Z] <midfavila> ...probably because I don't use Macs. At all.
[2021-05-23T19:17:48Z] <Sweets> Apple has incredibly good system level APIs, but also I got sick of working on linux WMs
[2021-05-23T19:17:49Z] <schillingklaus> there's also busybox dd
[2021-05-23T19:17:50Z] <midfavila> tried for a year and a half as my main PC, eventually got so fed up with it that I threw it out of my window
[2021-05-23T19:18:32Z] <Sweets> Ironically, I don't use linux at all anymore. The few and far between times that I do, it's in Windows' WSL. macOS is a return to *nix for me
[2021-05-23T19:18:42Z] <midfavila> that's fair.
[2021-05-23T19:18:51Z] <midfavila> if I had the option I'd use BSD on my main workstation
[2021-05-23T19:19:05Z] <schillingklaus> openbsd is more unixish
[2021-05-23T19:19:07Z] <Sweets> I used openbsd for a little bit, but personally it felt too far deep in the neckbeard woods
[2021-05-23T19:19:22Z] <midfavila> >is in #kisslinux
[2021-05-23T19:19:22Z] <midfavila> >complains about neckbeards
[2021-05-23T19:19:34Z] <Sweets> the irony is not lost on me
[2021-05-23T19:19:36Z] <midfavila> :P 
[2021-05-23T19:19:45Z] <midfavila> I'm waiting for hyperbola/BSD
[2021-05-23T19:19:52Z] <Sweets> but also I develop applications for linux--to include pid 1--only on windows
[2021-05-23T19:19:54Z] <schillingklaus> what are neckbeards?
[2021-05-23T19:19:56Z] <midfavila> i'd really like to set KISS up on it
[2021-05-23T19:19:59Z] <Sweets> so I'm just contrarian in every regard
[2021-05-23T19:20:30Z] <schillingklaus> hyperbolabsd sounds cool
[2021-05-23T19:20:35Z] <midfavila> schillingklaus calling someone a neckbeard is to invoke the edgy katana-wielding contrarians of late-00s early '10s reddit
[2021-05-23T19:21:06Z] <schillingklaus> I always stayed away from reddit
[2021-05-23T19:21:34Z] <midfavila> i used reddit to find smash tourneys when I was like
[2021-05-23T19:21:36Z] <midfavila> thirteen
[2021-05-23T19:21:37Z] <midfavila> i think
[2021-05-23T19:21:49Z] <Sweets> midfavila, I just did a check up, and the system should be reaping any children that become defunct processes. That being said, are you using HEAD?
[2021-05-23T19:22:05Z] <midfavila> not the exact latest, but from like
[2021-05-23T19:22:06Z] <midfavila> a week ago
[2021-05-23T19:22:10Z] <midfavila> tops
[2021-05-23T19:22:18Z] <Sweets> pull from HEAD, you might find a lot of issues have been fixed
[2021-05-23T19:22:41Z] <midfavila> ugh, fiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiine
[2021-05-23T19:23:00Z] <Sweets> same
[2021-05-23T19:23:03Z] <midfavila> will test it tonight before bed
[2021-05-23T19:23:06Z] <midfavila> my machine takes an aeon to boot
[2021-05-23T19:23:29Z] <Sweets> thunk. With hummingbird as pid 1?
[2021-05-23T19:23:36Z] <Sweets> What's it like with other inits?
[2021-05-23T19:23:41Z] <midfavila> no no
[2021-05-23T19:23:44Z] <midfavila> it's a motherboard problem
[2021-05-23T19:23:49Z] <Sweets> Ah
[2021-05-23T19:23:50Z] <midfavila> i use an intel s2600cw2r
[2021-05-23T19:23:56Z] <Sweets> you were hurtin my soul for a second there
[2021-05-23T19:23:56Z] <midfavila> so it goes through this massive POST every boot
[2021-05-23T19:24:01Z] <Sweets> oh yikes
[2021-05-23T19:24:02Z] <midfavila> hummingbird is my favorite init
[2021-05-23T19:24:07Z] <midfavila> unironically
[2021-05-23T19:24:23Z] <Sweets> well it's good to see that at least some people enjoy it, so it doesn't feel like I maintain it for nothing
[2021-05-23T19:24:34Z] <Sweets> I just found at the other day that apparently a lot of the kiss community uses hummingbird
[2021-05-23T19:24:45Z] <Sweets> or "a lot" as in a good number, even if not a majority
[2021-05-23T19:24:59Z] <midfavila> well, it's probably the best option outside of busybox
[2021-05-23T19:25:03Z] <dilyn> i'd hazard a guess that it's the second most popular
[2021-05-23T19:25:32Z] <Sweets> the only reason I even found out was because I was missin' dylan. One day he was in my Discord DMs, the next he wasn't
[2021-05-23T19:25:38Z] <Sweets> then I found the freenode logs
[2021-05-23T19:25:42Z] <Sweets> and now here I am
[2021-05-23T19:26:03Z] <schillingklaus> what is the advantage of hummingbird over runit?
[2021-05-23T19:26:07Z] <midfavila> >Dylan used proprietary software
[2021-05-23T19:26:09Z] <midfavila> blasphemy
[2021-05-23T19:26:16Z] <Sweets> Depends on what you want from your init
[2021-05-23T19:26:23Z] <midfavila> hummingbird is fast and simple schillingklaus
[2021-05-23T19:26:45Z] <midfavila> the fact that it doesn't handle services is a bonus imho
[2021-05-23T19:26:51Z] <midfavila> because then you can pair it with something like sysmgr
[2021-05-23T19:26:56Z] <dilyn> I wish it did :(  
[2021-05-23T19:27:05Z] <Sweets> out of the box, hummingbird does nothing but go from the kernel to a usable userspace
[2021-05-23T19:27:25Z] <Sweets> dilyn, I'd keep an eye out for a certain project named fluttr in the near future then
[2021-05-23T19:27:26Z] <midfavila> *unless you use suckless tty
[2021-05-23T19:27:35Z] <dilyn> :O  :O  :O  
[2021-05-23T19:27:37Z] <dilyn> f i n a l l y 
[2021-05-23T19:27:42Z] <midfavila> :OOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO
[2021-05-23T19:27:45Z] <midfavila> ley soy face
[2021-05-23T19:27:50Z] <Sweets> I am working on a service manager to be used in tandem _with_ hummingbird, but not required to run hummingbird
[2021-05-23T19:27:57Z] <dilyn> you hear that cem
[2021-05-23T19:28:01Z] <dilyn> i'm leaving you
[2021-05-23T19:28:11Z] <Sweets> so OOTB hummingbird won't use the service manager, but the tool is meant to compliment humbirb
[2021-05-23T19:28:56Z] <schillingklaus> suckless has its own tty?
[2021-05-23T19:29:14Z] <midfavila> yes.
[2021-05-23T19:29:23Z] <midfavila> it's part of sbase
[2021-05-23T19:29:41Z] <cem> dilyn: I considered switching back to runit only once
[2021-05-23T19:29:42Z] <midfavila> but it doesn't handle the standard baudrate or terminal type arguments, and it requires an absolute device path
[2021-05-23T19:29:53Z] <midfavila> so you have to tinker with hummingbird's default tty script. no biggy.
[2021-05-23T19:30:03Z] <dilyn> it's why I don't use sbase :v 
[2021-05-23T19:30:17Z] <buffet> Sweets, oh? whats it gonna look like api wise?
[2021-05-23T19:30:18Z] ElKowar joined
[2021-05-23T19:30:26Z] <dilyn> I keep thinking about runit and then I remember that I do NOT want to do more reading and learning :)  
[2021-05-23T19:30:32Z] <kqz> i use suckless getty + hummingbird + sysmgr, perfect combination
[2021-05-23T19:30:44Z] <midfavila> "I just wanna coooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo-"
[2021-05-23T19:30:49Z] <midfavila> same kqz
[2021-05-23T19:30:59Z] <midfavila> but I've been considering getting a framebuffer tty set up
[2021-05-23T19:31:04Z] <midfavila> since my monitors are vertical
[2021-05-23T19:31:16Z] <cem> I use shinit + sysmgr :^)
[2021-05-23T19:31:19Z] <midfavila> and I feel like I'm gonna give myself whiplash from the constant head-tilting
[2021-05-23T19:31:43Z] <dilyn> why not just launch x from inittab 
[2021-05-23T19:31:56Z] <Sweets> As far as actual usage, it's going to use .service files with ini syntax. What I _want_ to do is make it so people can just reuse the millions of .service files that already exist for systemd, and they can be plug-and-play with fluttr
[2021-05-23T19:31:58Z] <dilyn> I use baseinit and pray 
[2021-05-23T19:32:09Z] <Sweets> But obv, it's its own standalone service manager, and nothing more
[2021-05-23T19:32:24Z] <midfavila> because /dev/tty{0.7}'s permissions aren't set properly by default on any of my machines dilyn
[2021-05-23T19:32:28Z] <buffet> Sweets, did you see the other dude thats kinda rebuilding systemd?
[2021-05-23T19:32:38Z] <Sweets> not at all, enlighten me bud
[2021-05-23T19:32:44Z] <midfavila> buddeh
[2021-05-23T19:33:03Z] <dilyn> why... why are they not mid 
[2021-05-23T19:33:13Z] <midfavila> you tell me
[2021-05-23T19:33:18Z] <midfavila> happens with the stock install too.
[2021-05-23T19:33:45Z] <Sweets> oh, dilyn, idk if you saw but I opened a PR to kiss-community/website
[2021-05-23T19:33:52Z] <dilyn> I did indeed!
[2021-05-23T19:34:17Z] <dilyn> I have no real idea how github does its black magic, but cloning $/kiss-community/repo works just fine
[2021-05-23T19:34:23Z] <dilyn> changing it might be a fine sanity check tho 
[2021-05-23T19:34:49Z] <buffet> i think https://github.com/InitWare/InitWare is the link. they keep changing the name
[2021-05-23T19:35:05Z] <Sweets> so basically, whenever you change the name of a repo, GitHub creates http redirect rules so that people who try to clone or navigate to kiss-community/repo get redirected to repo-main
[2021-05-23T19:35:22Z] <Sweets> the issue comes if you were to make a new "repo" or "community" repository, those redirects would go defunct
[2021-05-23T19:35:34Z] <Sweets> so it may be best to not bank on the redirects
[2021-05-23T19:35:35Z] <buffet> https://github.com/eComCloud/eComInit/ also this
[2021-05-23T19:37:12Z] <dilyn> I figured that was it
[2021-05-23T19:37:13Z] <dilyn> ty
[2021-05-23T19:37:47Z] <Sweets> Can't say either of these projects spark much inside of me. I don't personally think that inits and service managers should be one in the same
[2021-05-23T19:37:57Z] <midfavila> ^
[2021-05-23T19:38:05Z] <midfavila> one thing and one thing well, or whatever
[2021-05-23T19:38:07Z] <Sweets> do one thing and do it well type shit
[2021-05-23T19:38:10Z] <Sweets> yeah that
[2021-05-23T19:38:15Z] <midfavila> get blasted
[2021-05-23T19:38:18Z] * midfavila dabs on Sweets
[2021-05-23T19:38:23Z] * Sweets dabs back
[2021-05-23T19:38:28Z] <midfavila> oh fu-
[2021-05-23T19:38:31Z] <midfavila> dilyn help
[2021-05-23T19:38:32Z] <Sweets> yeah now what
[2021-05-23T19:38:34Z] <midfavila> i've been out-zoomered
[2021-05-23T19:38:41Z] <midfavila> call for reinforcements
[2021-05-23T19:39:05Z] riteo quit: Quit: Quit
[2021-05-23T19:39:06Z] <dilyn> Sweets gave me init, mid gave me shit 
[2021-05-23T19:39:13Z] <dilyn> mid who do you think i'll support in this dab war
[2021-05-23T19:39:25Z] riteo joined
[2021-05-23T19:39:27Z] <midfavila> obviously me
[2021-05-23T19:39:29Z] <cem> me?
[2021-05-23T19:39:29Z] <midfavila> because you love me
[2021-05-23T19:39:34Z] <midfavila> in a platonic manner
[2021-05-23T19:39:35Z] <midfavila> uwu
[2021-05-23T19:40:17Z] <schillingklaus> plato never siad that
[2021-05-23T19:40:47Z] <dilyn> damn, cem got it in  one
[2021-05-23T19:41:02Z] <dilyn> yeah plato was a big slut 
[2021-05-23T19:41:13Z] <cem> Plato was an absolute simp
[2021-05-23T19:41:30Z] <cem> Hence the term
[2021-05-23T19:41:32Z] <midfavila> i mean, I could have said "in a diogenic manner"
[2021-05-23T19:41:34Z] <Sweets> y'all definitely just reminded me of this meme https://i.imgur.com/rIL7KNP.png
[2021-05-23T19:42:10Z] <midfavila> :V
[2021-05-23T19:42:20Z] <dilyn> is Mid the Hawkster in this instance? 
[2021-05-23T19:42:23Z] <dilyn> I have zero hesitation
[2021-05-23T19:42:26Z] <Sweets> correct
[2021-05-23T19:42:29Z] <midfavila> wh-
[2021-05-23T19:42:29Z] <Sweets> oh sad
[2021-05-23T19:42:35Z] <dilyn> uwu
[2021-05-23T19:42:36Z] <midfavila> I am a VALUED CONTRIBUTOR to this distribution!
[2021-05-23T19:42:40Z] <midfavila> >:CCC
[2021-05-23T19:42:44Z] <dilyn>  /shrug
[2021-05-23T19:42:55Z] <midfavila> who would fill the fortunes file with amazing shitposts 
[2021-05-23T19:43:04Z] <midfavila> if it were not for me this channel would have died long ago
[2021-05-23T19:43:06Z] * midfavila nods 
[2021-05-23T19:43:06Z] <cem> valued gtkrap hater
[2021-05-23T19:43:19Z] <midfavila> Qshit and gtkrap, yes
[2021-05-23T19:43:25Z] <dilyn> Mid tempers my Wayland tendencies 
[2021-05-23T19:43:44Z] <cem> Don't say wayland he's afraid of redhat
[2021-05-23T19:43:44Z] <dilyn> Without his influence(tm) I would have packaged systemd long ago 
[2021-05-23T19:44:06Z] <midfavila> I'm naming my bayonet Influence
[2021-05-23T19:44:06Z] riteo quit: Client Quit
[2021-05-23T19:44:12Z] <midfavila> this is a thing now
[2021-05-23T19:44:24Z] riteo joined
[2021-05-23T19:44:48Z] <schillingklaus> does redhat hold a monopoly onw wayland?
[2021-05-23T19:44:52Z] <cem> My next computer's hostname is going to be midfavila
[2021-05-23T19:45:07Z] <dilyn> cringe
[2021-05-23T19:45:12Z] <midfavila> uwu~
[2021-05-23T19:45:17Z] <Sweets> couldn't imagine having my hostname be "midfavila"
[2021-05-23T19:45:20Z] <Sweets> might just shoot my pc
[2021-05-23T19:45:32Z] <cem> merakor@midfavila uwu
[2021-05-23T19:45:39Z] <Sweets> right in the socket, so it destroys the cpu too
[2021-05-23T19:45:44Z] <dilyn> :'(  
[2021-05-23T19:45:46Z] <cem> lol
[2021-05-23T19:45:47Z] <midfavila> it's been contaminated 
[2021-05-23T19:45:56Z] <dilyn> I don't actually know what all redhat does with wayland
[2021-05-23T19:45:56Z] riteo quit: Remote host closed the connection
[2021-05-23T19:46:00Z] <dilyn> who works on sway the most? 
[2021-05-23T19:46:04Z] <cem> drew
[2021-05-23T19:46:14Z] <Sweets> my cpu has been through hell anyways, I've dropped it on the ground and bent 60 of the pins just to spend an hour to bend them all back by hand
[2021-05-23T19:46:24Z] <dilyn> and drew isn't redhaht
[2021-05-23T19:46:32Z] <Sweets> I'm not a wayland fan, I hate its implementation
[2021-05-23T19:46:35Z] <dilyn> that's the power of AMD baybeee
[2021-05-23T19:46:39Z] riteohelpmode joined
[2021-05-23T19:46:47Z] <Sweets> who said it was an AMD cpu
[2021-05-23T19:46:56Z] <dilyn> well it ain't intel
[2021-05-23T19:47:00Z] <Sweets> I mean
[2021-05-23T19:47:02Z] <Sweets> you're not wrong
[2021-05-23T19:47:18Z] <dilyn> don't tell me your the .5% of the market
[2021-05-23T19:47:20Z] <midfavila> inb4 it's a zilog
[2021-05-23T19:47:22Z] <Sweets> you never know
[2021-05-23T19:47:30Z] <dilyn> I don't want to know
[2021-05-23T19:47:34Z] <Sweets> nah, it's an AMD cpu
[2021-05-23T19:47:41Z] <aws> I have used wayland for a few months
[2021-05-23T19:47:45Z] <dilyn> (also I did just read your whole blog) 
[2021-05-23T19:47:46Z] <aws> I like it :)
[2021-05-23T19:47:49Z] riteohelpmode quit: Remote host closed the connection
[2021-05-23T19:47:53Z] <dilyn> wayland is the best!
[2021-05-23T19:48:03Z] <Sweets> lost in walmart blog has quickly become my passion, I love writing entries
[2021-05-23T19:48:10Z] <midfavila> OH MY GOD
[2021-05-23T19:48:13Z] <midfavila> you get lost in walmart too?
[2021-05-23T19:48:15Z] <cem> Yeah, I also made the switch to wayland a few days ago
[2021-05-23T19:48:17Z] <Sweets> correct
[2021-05-23T19:48:18Z] <midfavila> we're like, friends now
[2021-05-23T19:48:21Z] <midfavila> this is great
[2021-05-23T19:48:29Z] <Sweets> i need an adult, i'm lost in mom
[2021-05-23T19:48:33Z] <Sweets> i'm lost in walmart*
[2021-05-23T19:48:33Z] <Sweets> fuck
[2021-05-23T19:48:36Z] <schillingklaus> wayland is the way to hell
[2021-05-23T19:48:36Z] <midfavila> big same
[2021-05-23T19:48:37Z] <dilyn> ...
[2021-05-23T19:48:46Z] <Sweets> "have you seen my mom? she has hair, and... and.. boobs"
[2021-05-23T19:48:49Z] <Sweets> +1 if you get that reference
[2021-05-23T19:48:57Z] <midfavila> if I ever become a programming *god* I'm totally gonna like
[2021-05-23T19:49:07Z] <midfavila> get my GPU to calculate the optimal shopping path, given a set of product IDs
[2021-05-23T19:49:17Z] <Sweets> that's big brane shit
[2021-05-23T19:49:20Z] <midfavila> megabrane
[2021-05-23T19:49:23Z] <Sweets> mega mind
[2021-05-23T19:49:24Z] <midfavila> you know what's even bigger brane
[2021-05-23T19:49:25Z] <dilyn> isn't the optimal path just ordering ahead and having the peons do it for you
[2021-05-23T19:49:32Z] <midfavila> gonna access it using a WWAN card in my laptop
[2021-05-23T19:49:35Z] riteoircbrokenhe joined
[2021-05-23T19:49:35Z] <cem> Libright moment
[2021-05-23T19:49:37Z] <midfavila> using only free software
[2021-05-23T19:49:43Z] <Sweets> free as in freedom?
[2021-05-23T19:49:47Z] riteoircbrokenhe quit: Client Quit
[2021-05-23T19:49:47Z] <midfavila> free as in freedom indeed
[2021-05-23T19:49:54Z] <dilyn> free as in cheaply made at walmart
[2021-05-23T19:50:04Z] <midfavila> >thinking walmart makes or provides anything
[2021-05-23T19:50:06Z] <Sweets> free as in I don't have enough gas money to go to target
[2021-05-23T19:50:13Z] <dilyn> target is the way 
[2021-05-23T19:50:32Z] <midfavila> i'm just gonna start shopping locally
[2021-05-23T19:50:35Z] <schillingklaus> isn't walmart jus a marionette of IBM? or vice versa?
[2021-05-23T19:50:40Z] <dilyn> target is local 
[2021-05-23T19:50:44Z] <dilyn> v: :v
[2021-05-23T19:50:45Z] riteo joined
[2021-05-23T19:50:46Z] <midfavila> IBM probably owns walmart somehow
[2021-05-23T19:50:55Z] <midfavila> maybe that's why walmart uses so much IBM shit
[2021-05-23T19:50:55Z] <aws> tbh i am hesitant on getting a car
[2021-05-23T19:51:02Z] <midfavila> reject cars
[2021-05-23T19:51:04Z] <midfavila> embrace bikes
[2021-05-23T19:51:05Z] <Sweets> I've got a friend who works in IBM, and he can confirm, they own Walmart
[2021-05-23T19:51:17Z] <midfavila> jdoes your uncle work at nintendo 
[2021-05-23T19:51:33Z] <Sweets> I wish, one of my current back burner projects is a super computer cluster made of Nintendo Switches
[2021-05-23T19:51:51Z] <midfavila> i tried a switch for the first time the other night
[2021-05-23T19:51:54Z] <dilyn> It would be mindblowing if a 200bn company owned... what, a failure? 
[2021-05-23T19:51:54Z] <midfavila> can't really say I liked it
[2021-05-23T19:51:55Z] <dilyn> lmao
[2021-05-23T19:52:02Z] <cem> Sweets: So you can finally get proper gameplay?
[2021-05-23T19:52:06Z] <midfavila> LMAO
[2021-05-23T19:52:11Z] <midfavila> nintendo btfo'd
[2021-05-23T19:52:14Z] schillingklaus quit: Quit: schillingklaus
[2021-05-23T19:52:17Z] <Sweets> cem: So I can get more than 3 fps on pokemon
[2021-05-23T19:52:35Z] <midfavila> do the switch pokemon games still put TVs into a bootloop
[2021-05-23T19:52:50Z] <Sweets> good question
[2021-05-23T19:52:52Z] <Sweets> next question please
[2021-05-23T19:53:00Z] <midfavila> do you intend to answer my first question
[2021-05-23T19:53:05Z] <cem> No, it ensures to delete the entire thing so it doesn't cause a bootloop
[2021-05-23T19:53:08Z] <Sweets> not in the slightest
[2021-05-23T19:53:30Z] riteo quit: Remote host closed the connection
[2021-05-23T19:54:52Z] <midfavila> aw.
[2021-05-23T19:55:27Z] riteo joined
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[2021-05-23T20:01:59Z] <zr> Wow. People seem to be having a lot of trouble with +q $~a
[2021-05-23T20:03:18Z] <kqz> most of the redhat peeps working on "wayland" work exclusively on gnome/mutter
[2021-05-23T20:03:46Z] midfavila quit: Quit: Leaving.
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[2021-05-23T20:38:49Z] <claudia> dilyn: Do you have wayfire running atm? I have an issue with wf-config and libxml2
[2021-05-23T20:39:55Z] <claudia> While building wf-confg, pkg-config even finds libxml2, 'libxml/parser.h' cannot be found
[2021-05-23T20:40:31Z] <Sweets> oh yo
[2021-05-23T20:40:42Z] <Sweets> apparently someone is trying to get hummingbird on nosystemd.org
[2021-05-23T20:52:56Z] <zr> That site doesn't argue very well against systemd imo
[2021-05-23T20:53:10Z] <zr> it's basically "Look, systemd has bugs!!" I mean, what software *doesn't*?
[2021-05-23T20:53:29Z] <Sweets> meh, I just think it's cool one of my projects is getting some semblance of traffic
[2021-05-23T20:53:31Z] <zr> That post from the Alpine Linux dev did a good job imo
[2021-05-23T20:53:41Z] <zr> Sweets: yeah, hummingbird is neat :)
[2021-05-23T20:53:44Z] zr changed nick to kiedtl
[2021-05-23T20:53:47Z] kiedtl parted: // unreachable code
[2021-05-23T20:53:50Z] kiedtl joined
[2021-05-23T20:54:57Z] <Sweets> lol speaking of which, someone said hummingbird provides neither speed nor customizeability, and is even slower than systemd
[2021-05-23T20:55:00Z] <Sweets> neato
[2021-05-23T20:57:56Z] <kiedtl> I wonder what their init scripts look like
[2021-05-23T20:58:11Z] <kiedtl> Might be the kind that would benefit highly from a parallel architecture
[2021-05-23T20:58:17Z] <midfavila> god
[2021-05-23T20:58:18Z] <kiedtl> Or they might just be a troll
[2021-05-23T20:58:20Z] <kiedtl> ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
[2021-05-23T20:58:42Z] <midfavila> almost every time I find someone talking about parallel boot, they're just starting way too much shit during boot
[2021-05-23T20:58:44Z] <carlosdavidepto> higher likelihood for the troll option
[2021-05-23T20:59:06Z] <kiedtl> midfavila: "way too much shit" is highly subjective
[2021-05-23T20:59:16Z] <midfavila> you don't need to start ssh *during init*
[2021-05-23T20:59:36Z] * acheam hides
[2021-05-23T20:59:37Z] <kiedtl> um, okay
[2021-05-23T21:00:01Z] <acheam> the only services I really start during init are ssh and dhcpcd
[2021-05-23T21:00:14Z] <midfavila> persistent stuff like ssh or a display manager or w/e should be started by a service manager, itself started by init, ideally as the last thing done. 
[2021-05-23T21:00:18Z] <midfavila> at least, that's my opinion.
[2021-05-23T21:00:36Z] <midfavila> i only run short scripts during boot, to initialize the network interfaces and stuff.
[2021-05-23T21:00:41Z] <kiedtl> acheam: bbbut what about wpa_supplicant?
[2021-05-23T21:00:52Z] <midfavila> >not using iwd
[2021-05-23T21:00:53Z] <kiedtl> You... you don't use ethernet, do you?
[2021-05-23T21:00:53Z] <midfavila> smh
[2021-05-23T21:01:01Z] <Sweets> https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=27187943
[2021-05-23T21:01:02Z] <cem> iwd gang
[2021-05-23T21:01:04Z] <Sweets> doesn't seem like a troll post
[2021-05-23T21:01:05Z] <Sweets> idk
[2021-05-23T21:01:07Z] <acheam> my glorious Ethernet cable knows nothing of that crap
[2021-05-23T21:01:38Z] <kiedtl> Oh, it's HN. Of course.
[2021-05-23T21:01:40Z] <midfavila> that seems less like a troll post and more like a "doesn't understand anything about init" post
[2021-05-23T21:02:20Z] <Sweets> if that's the case he's using some mighty big words 
[2021-05-23T21:02:39Z] <carlosdavidepto> HN is a giant troll machine that's just really good a pretending not to be a troll
[2021-05-23T21:02:46Z] <midfavila> hecker noose
[2021-05-23T21:02:53Z] <midfavila> makes me want to fuckin kms
[2021-05-23T21:03:06Z] <cem> Gotta love people and their "bets"
[2021-05-23T21:03:31Z] <midfavila> i just don't understand it when people try to say that systemd is "faster" than anything
[2021-05-23T21:03:41Z] <midfavila> every system I've tried that uses sysd takes ages to init
[2021-05-23T21:03:44Z] <cem> systemd is slower than windows
[2021-05-23T21:03:49Z] <midfavila> even if it's not starting anything
[2021-05-23T21:03:56Z] <midfavila> same with a clean shutdown
[2021-05-23T21:04:00Z] <kiedtl> indeed
[2021-05-23T21:04:05Z] <carlosdavidepto> for factual acuracy, systemd on solus is very fast
[2021-05-23T21:04:19Z] <kiedtl> cem: systemd doesn't take 5 minutes to start like Windows does on my laptop, though.
[2021-05-23T21:04:25Z] <midfavila> i've never used solus
[2021-05-23T21:04:29Z] <carlosdavidepto> but the devs claim the use of "celtic magic"
[2021-05-23T21:04:36Z] <midfavila> oht
[2021-05-23T21:04:39Z] <carlosdavidepto> so maybe it's not all in software
[2021-05-23T21:04:40Z] <midfavila> that'd do it
[2021-05-23T21:04:45Z] <kqz> claudia: builds fine for me, does /usr/include/libxml2/libxml/parser.h exist?
[2021-05-23T21:04:54Z] <cem> I used to dual-boot arch and windows on my laptop a few years ago, windows was faster for me :P
[2021-05-23T21:04:57Z] <midfavila> probably dunked the binaries in guinness and stuck lucky charms to it 
[2021-05-23T21:07:58Z] <carlosdavidepto> who knows. they didn't specify what the magic was
[2021-05-23T21:08:19Z] <cem> libmagic
[2021-05-23T21:09:23Z] <kiedtl> celtic magic? What's that supposed to even mean?
[2021-05-23T21:09:39Z] <midfavila> the soul of a banshee has been infused into it.
[2021-05-23T21:09:41Z] <midfavila> obviously.
[2021-05-23T21:11:34Z] <carlosdavidepto> https://discuss.getsol.us/d/5419-why-is-solus-so-fast
[2021-05-23T21:12:09Z] <carlosdavidepto> apparently it also involves some other... ritual elements
[2021-05-23T21:12:54Z] <midfavila> http://toastytech.com/guis/cpdesk.html
[2021-05-23T21:13:02Z] <midfavila> would you look at that, a windows gui that isn't shit
[2021-05-23T21:24:46Z] <cem> https://git.sr.ht/~linx/repository/commit/71466dffddb609ca7a301c12d8cae799f7ea8fd3
[2021-05-23T21:25:01Z] <cem> smh this guy
[2021-05-23T21:25:59Z] <claudia> kqz: Yes it does. Thats what strange about it.
[2021-05-23T21:26:16Z] <claudia> I think omanom reported this issue also a few days back.
[2021-05-23T21:26:35Z] <kiedtl> cem: The magic of the MIT license
[2021-05-23T21:26:36Z] <cem> This person doesn't even know how to read a license
[2021-05-23T21:26:52Z] <kiedtl> Oh, wait, he didn't relicense, but just removed the license entirely
[2021-05-23T21:26:53Z] <cem> MIT says the copyright information should be retained
[2021-05-23T21:26:56Z] claudia quit: Quit: claudia
[2021-05-23T21:27:03Z] <kiedtl> sorry, braincoredump there
[2021-05-23T21:27:09Z] claudia joined
[2021-05-23T21:27:11Z] <cem> It's alright :D
[2021-05-23T21:28:00Z] <cem> I mailed them like a few weeks ago, they didn't even bother to reply
[2021-05-23T21:28:22Z] <cem> kinda rude but idk
[2021-05-23T21:28:38Z] <carlosdavidepto> time to heat up the cease-and-desist printer
[2021-05-23T21:29:30Z] <cem> lmao
[2021-05-23T21:29:58Z] <cem> They also commit with a fake mail, it doesn't even belong to them
[2021-05-23T21:30:07Z] <cem> It took me an hour to find their actual mail
[2021-05-23T21:30:32Z] <carlosdavidepto> now that I think about it, I had this conversation once with someone who asked if "but do we really have to respect these licences, it's not like they're legally valid, right?"
[2021-05-23T21:31:04Z] <midfavila> i mean, you don't *really have to*
[2021-05-23T21:31:08Z] <midfavila> but you basically have to
[2021-05-23T21:31:22Z] <midfavila> it's the same argument people use against the GPL
[2021-05-23T21:31:34Z] <midfavila> 'they can just like, totally ignore it, brah. it's just words, brah.'
[2021-05-23T21:32:12Z] <Sweets> Well actually, licenses are eula agreements. Which are, legally speaking, entirely enforceable
[2021-05-23T21:32:15Z] <Sweets> At least in the US
[2021-05-23T21:32:37Z] <midfavila> the entire argument is bunk because a license agreement is a contract
[2021-05-23T21:32:58Z] <cem> I mean, I don't care what they do with the source, I just think that it is a dick move to grab everything, remove the license and brand it like it's your work
[2021-05-23T21:32:58Z] <Sweets> So do you have to, no, not in the slightest. BUT, you are legally bound by it, and pursuant to the license, you can be charged and taken to court if you are found going against the terms
[2021-05-23T21:34:02Z] <dilyn> use legal zoom to draft a rough cease and desist cem :)  
[2021-05-23T21:34:10Z] <dilyn> claudia: that is a known issue I saw on github somewhere
[2021-05-23T21:34:38Z] <Sweets> In the most general sense though, most of the time nothing will happen and you will just be denied further usage of whatever software you break the terms of if applicable.
[2021-05-23T21:34:49Z] <Sweets> Or you will be denied support, in the case of some open source projects
[2021-05-23T21:35:19Z] <carlosdavidepto> unless you're building a comercial project with the foss parts
[2021-05-23T21:35:26Z] <carlosdavidepto> then it can get messy
[2021-05-23T21:35:38Z] <Sweets> GNU GPL, v3 especially, is a legal mess.
[2021-05-23T21:35:41Z] <carlosdavidepto> in an entertaining way
[2021-05-23T21:35:43Z] <Sweets> Absolute horrid license.
[2021-05-23T21:35:47Z] <kiedtl> How so?
[2021-05-23T21:36:30Z] <Sweets> You can be held liable, and you can't sublicense.
[2021-05-23T21:36:44Z] <kiedtl> Hm, I see.
[2021-05-23T21:36:45Z] <Sweets> So if you were to say, create a filesystem driver for linux, right?
[2021-05-23T21:36:50Z] <Sweets> Linux itself is under GNU GPL v3
[2021-05-23T21:36:55Z] <kiedtl> v2
[2021-05-23T21:36:59Z] <dilyn> there's a reason busybox and the kernel are v2 only 
[2021-05-23T21:37:04Z] <Sweets> so even if it's your own filesystem that YOU created, then it's not yours anymore
[2021-05-23T21:37:07Z] <Sweets> ah my bad then
[2021-05-23T21:37:07Z] <dilyn> bb used to be 2 or later
[2021-05-23T21:37:14Z] <Sweets> still v3 is what I'm speaking of
[2021-05-23T21:37:18Z] <dilyn> mmhm
[2021-05-23T21:37:22Z] <dilyn> yeah v3 is a clusterfuck and a half :)  
[2021-05-23T21:37:26Z] <Sweets> So anyways, even if it's something of your own creation, you can no longer sublicense
[2021-05-23T21:37:30Z] <Sweets> It's no longer your own code
[2021-05-23T21:37:35Z] <kiedtl> That's dumb.
[2021-05-23T21:37:37Z] <dilyn> it's 'everyones code' 
[2021-05-23T21:37:44Z] <dilyn> they're protecting your freedoms kiedtl!
[2021-05-23T21:37:52Z] <Sweets> Yeah, that's why I said, GNU GPL v3 is a legal mess
[2021-05-23T21:37:58Z] <Sweets> Absolute dog shit license
[2021-05-23T21:38:00Z] <kiedtl> dilyn, do I see you using non-free words there?
[2021-05-23T21:38:08Z] <kiedtl> kiedtl is proprietary word
[2021-05-23T21:38:09Z] <carlosdavidepto> I'm going to reread the gpl v3
[2021-05-23T21:38:15Z] <dilyn> don't
[2021-05-23T21:38:17Z] <Sweets> oh
[2021-05-23T21:38:18Z] <Sweets> actually
[2021-05-23T21:38:21Z] <Sweets> this applies to v2 as well
[2021-05-23T21:38:23Z] <dilyn> kiedtl, a name is a gift
[2021-05-23T21:38:24Z] <carlosdavidepto> but i think that copyright law supercedes that
[2021-05-23T21:38:28Z] <Sweets> v2 doesn't allow sublicensing either
[2021-05-23T21:38:32Z] <dilyn> kek
[2021-05-23T21:38:32Z] <Sweets> which the linux kernel is v2
[2021-05-23T21:38:34Z] <Sweets> so
[2021-05-23T21:38:35Z] <Sweets> you know.
[2021-05-23T21:38:35Z] <dilyn> the gpl is terrible. 
[2021-05-23T21:38:39Z] <carlosdavidepto> because the original creator always has the rights to the creation
[2021-05-23T21:38:39Z] <kiedtl> lol wow
[2021-05-23T21:38:48Z] <Sweets> Yeah, I whole heartedly hate GNU.
[2021-05-23T21:38:56Z] <kiedtl> uh
[2021-05-23T21:38:56Z] <Sweets> Especially Richard Stallman
[2021-05-23T21:39:00Z] <dilyn> ^
[2021-05-23T21:39:01Z] <dilyn> my mang
[2021-05-23T21:39:20Z] <kiedtl> I mean sure, stallman is a jerk and some gnu stuff is trash
[2021-05-23T21:39:33Z] <kiedtl> why would you hate the whole gnu org though?
[2021-05-23T21:39:37Z] <Sweets> Stallman is a stain on everything open source
[2021-05-23T21:39:55Z] <kiedtl> still, foss wouldn't be where it is if it wasn't for that autist
[2021-05-23T21:39:57Z] <midfavila> stallman is against "open source" Sweets
[2021-05-23T21:39:58Z] <Sweets> Well, to elaborate a little bit, the organization itself I don't _inherently_ hate
[2021-05-23T21:40:02Z] <midfavila> i don't know what you would expect from him
[2021-05-23T21:40:10Z] <Sweets> I hate the reputation that it has garnered
[2021-05-23T21:40:13Z] <kiedtl> fair
[2021-05-23T21:40:24Z] <Sweets> Especially in the "gNu/lInUx" shit
[2021-05-23T21:40:38Z] <kiedtl> lol yes
[2021-05-23T21:40:40Z] <midfavila> no, not at all
[2021-05-23T21:40:43Z] <midfavila> he's right about that
[2021-05-23T21:40:49Z] <dilyn> https://git.sr.ht/~linx/init/tree/master/item/rc.conf cem can I be your lawyer 
[2021-05-23T21:40:53Z] <midfavila> seperating the kernel and the userspace is important on a technical level
[2021-05-23T21:40:54Z] <dilyn> he's making me mad >=|
[2021-05-23T21:41:10Z] <midfavila> a Busybox+Linux system is substantially different from a GNU+Linux system
[2021-05-23T21:41:12Z] <carlosdavidepto> :v
[2021-05-23T21:41:12Z] <Sweets> And no, I completely agree with you. FOSS would not be where it is today without them.
[2021-05-23T21:41:35Z] <Sweets> midfavila yes, but the problem herein lies that GNU tried to take credit for all of Linux.
[2021-05-23T21:41:37Z] <dilyn> fun fact, GNU doesn't think I run a linux system
[2021-05-23T21:41:49Z] <dilyn> or rather, calling what I use 'linux' is not accurate
[2021-05-23T21:41:52Z] <cem> dilyn: yeah sure
[2021-05-23T21:41:56Z] <dilyn> https://gnu.org/gnu/gnu-linux-faq.html#justlinux
[2021-05-23T21:42:09Z] <midfavila> uh, no, stallman has said that the only systems that are explicitly GNU+Linux systems are systems that contain predominantly GNU utilities
[2021-05-23T21:42:29Z] <Sweets> GNU tries to take credit for Linux as a whole--which it is true that in some sense, but GNU is simply the userspace. Linux being a monolithic kernel though, you could argue, is an operating system itself
[2021-05-23T21:42:40Z] <dilyn> that faq answer explicitly states that a system without GNU and is 'just linux' is 1) not installed on desktop pcs and 2) disappointing
[2021-05-23T21:42:44Z] <dilyn>  /shrug
[2021-05-23T21:42:48Z] <midfavila> GNU doesn't try to "take credit" for anything other than GNU
[2021-05-23T21:42:52Z] <Sweets> Whereas GNU argues that no, Linux is strictly only a kernel (again, not necessarily wrong), and that GNU is the only thing that enables a Linux system
[2021-05-23T21:43:00Z] <kiedtl> I'd like to interject for a moment, Sweets. What you're referring to as GNU+Linux, is actually SystemD+GNU+Linux
[2021-05-23T21:43:15Z] <midfavila> they simply state that without GNU or another userspace, Linux is just a kernel. this is uncontroversial.
[2021-05-23T21:43:22Z] <kiedtl> also lol @ "Linx OS"
[2021-05-23T21:43:32Z] <midfavila> wait what
[2021-05-23T21:43:32Z] <kiedtl> He reminds me of 15-yo me
[2021-05-23T21:43:36Z] <midfavila> is he ripping off KISS?
[2021-05-23T21:43:53Z] <Sweets> It's all kind of just heresay, and what makes an operating system an _operating system_ is entirely up for debate. But I don't at all like GNU because I don't believe that the OS should be entirely defined by the userspace 
[2021-05-23T21:43:53Z] <cem> He is ripping off Carbs which is a ripoff of KISS
[2021-05-23T21:43:55Z] <kiedtl> s/15-yo/13-yo/
[2021-05-23T21:44:14Z] <midfavila> the OS *isn't* defined entirely by the userspace
[2021-05-23T21:44:20Z] <midfavila> it's the combination of the userspace and the kernel
[2021-05-23T21:44:26Z] <Sweets> Right, but that's not what GNU says
[2021-05-23T21:44:31Z] <midfavila> run GNU on a BSD system and you get GNU+BSD
[2021-05-23T21:44:32Z] <kiedtl> Installing GNU coreutils onto Windows doesn't make it GNU+Windows, yes
[2021-05-23T21:44:41Z] <kiedtl> which you can do, btw
[2021-05-23T21:44:43Z] <midfavila> GNU on QNX? GNU+QNX. 
[2021-05-23T21:44:46Z] <dilyn> mid is being way more charitable about this 
[2021-05-23T21:45:07Z] <kiedtl> cem: I'm curious, what exactly is different about Carbs?
[2021-05-23T21:45:22Z] <dilyn> cpt is a lot different
[2021-05-23T21:45:25Z] <Sweets> Hell, just reading this right here is infuriating https://www.gnu.org/gnu/gnu-linux-faq.html#linuxsyswithoutgnu
[2021-05-23T21:45:35Z] <Sweets> There whole argument is that "Linux without GNU isn't Linux at all"
[2021-05-23T21:45:39Z] <Sweets> Their*
[2021-05-23T21:45:56Z] <Sweets> Anyways, tldr I hate GNU. 
[2021-05-23T21:45:58Z] <midfavila> uh, no
[2021-05-23T21:46:01Z] <midfavila> that's not at all what they say
[2021-05-23T21:46:28Z] <cem> kiedtl: Yeah, mainly the package manager, some base packages and some other small stuff
[2021-05-23T21:46:39Z] <midfavila> they point out that calling Android "Linux" is just as incorrect as calling a system with GNU tools "Linux" 
[2021-05-23T21:46:46Z] <midfavila> because there's a lot more going on than just Linux.
[2021-05-23T21:46:50Z] <midfavila> again, I fail to see the problem.
[2021-05-23T21:46:55Z] <cem> cpt is like xbps combined with kiss
[2021-05-23T21:47:05Z] <Sweets> See when I read that, I interpret it very differently
[2021-05-23T21:47:09Z] <dilyn> again, overly charitable
[2021-05-23T21:47:19Z] <midfavila> i'm not being overly charitable, I'm being literal
[2021-05-23T21:47:24Z] <dilyn> that whole FAQ is just linguistic malpractice
[2021-05-23T21:47:25Z] <ang> https://termbin.com/clue
[2021-05-23T21:47:39Z] <ang> anyone an idea why this is not working?
[2021-05-23T21:47:54Z] <midfavila> if someone from the GNU project wants to call Linux a "GNU system" they're just as wrong as someone calling a Linux distro "just Linux"
[2021-05-23T21:48:56Z] <midfavila> like, here, just a few sections after that one you posted, Sweets
[2021-05-23T21:49:08Z] <midfavila> https://www.gnu.org/gnu/gnu-linux-faq.html#claimlinux
[2021-05-23T21:50:15Z] <dilyn> what kind of system am I running, mid
[2021-05-23T21:50:26Z] <cem> dilyn: abomination/linux
[2021-05-23T21:50:35Z] <dilyn> i mean that's what I would call it
[2021-05-23T21:50:37Z] <Sweets> pain+suffering/linux
[2021-05-23T21:50:38Z] <midfavila> depends on your kernel and userland combination
[2021-05-23T21:50:42Z] * midfavila shrugs
[2021-05-23T21:50:44Z] <dilyn> you know what it is lmfao 
[2021-05-23T21:50:49Z] <dilyn> I have a list of it
[2021-05-23T21:51:03Z] <midfavila> toybox provides most of it, right?
[2021-05-23T21:51:07Z] <cem> Sweets: linux already includes pain+suffering so just linux?
[2021-05-23T21:51:07Z] <dilyn> mmhmm
[2021-05-23T21:51:07Z] <dilyn> https://github.com/dilyn-corner/KISS-me
[2021-05-23T21:51:15Z] <dilyn> it's all in that README
[2021-05-23T21:51:18Z] <midfavila> so i'd personally refer to it as Toybox+Linux (with supplements from...)
[2021-05-23T21:51:32Z] <dilyn> am I wrong to call this machine a linux machine? 
[2021-05-23T21:51:36Z] <Sweets> Honestly, in the end, labeling things by their userspace just seems egotistical on the part of GNU anyways. Like, I get that it's the userspace, but the userspace isn't _just_ GNU tools.
[2021-05-23T21:51:39Z] <midfavila> no, but you're also not right
[2021-05-23T21:51:43Z] <midfavila> it's a half-true statement
[2021-05-23T21:51:50Z] <Sweets> And you don't see me calling my installation Busybox/Hummingbird/Linux
[2021-05-23T21:51:54Z] <dilyn> lol
[2021-05-23T21:51:55Z] <Sweets> or Sweets/Linux
[2021-05-23T21:52:06Z] <dilyn> it isn't ~half true~ that it's Linux tho
[2021-05-23T21:52:12Z] <dilyn> it's full-bodied linux
[2021-05-23T21:52:13Z] <midfavila> correct
[2021-05-23T21:52:19Z] <dilyn> should I call it realtek/toybox/linux?
[2021-05-23T21:52:19Z] <midfavila> but it's half-true that the entire OS is just Linux
[2021-05-23T21:52:21Z] <Sweets> I use a lot of my own software, but by that metric, I would be equally correct in calling my install Sweets/Linux
[2021-05-23T21:52:35Z] <midfavila> and if you found the realtek software to be that important to your overall system, you *could*
[2021-05-23T21:52:42Z] <Sweets> Yeah, but I'd still argue that the half that isn't linux isn't GNU either, even on actual GNU based systems
[2021-05-23T21:52:43Z] <midfavila> RMS has stated the same for X11
[2021-05-23T21:52:47Z] <midfavila> shit
[2021-05-23T21:52:49Z] <Sweets> GNU coreutils isn't all that big
[2021-05-23T21:52:49Z] <dilyn> should we call Windows Steam/Windows? I'm confused
[2021-05-23T21:52:59Z] <midfavila> some of the early linux systems even did that
[2021-05-23T21:52:59Z] <Sweets> NT/Windows
[2021-05-23T21:53:03Z] <midfavila> ^
[2021-05-23T21:53:04Z] <dilyn> lol
[2021-05-23T21:53:14Z] <Sweets> I mean, I get it
[2021-05-23T21:53:15Z] <midfavila> yggdrasil GNU/Linux/Xf86 or whatever
[2021-05-23T21:53:16Z] <Sweets> but I'm saying it's dumb
[2021-05-23T21:53:22Z] <Sweets> just linux"
[2021-05-23T21:53:31Z] <Sweets> "linux" -- boom, touch down, now we're all on the same page
[2021-05-23T21:53:42Z] <Sweets> I don't think it's pertinent to the naming unless we're specifically talking about a userspace
[2021-05-23T21:54:02Z] <cem> Yeah, it's just useless semantics
[2021-05-23T21:55:24Z] <midfavila> but we're not on the same page
[2021-05-23T21:55:40Z] <midfavila> like, at the technical level. 
[2021-05-23T21:55:50Z] <midfavila> you could call linux-based OSes "Linux-family" systems
[2021-05-23T21:56:09Z] <carlosdavidepto> so
[2021-05-23T21:56:14Z] <dilyn> I believe that's already covered
[2021-05-23T21:56:15Z] <dilyn> unix-like
[2021-05-23T21:56:22Z] <carlosdavidepto> my interpretation of the terms of the gpl v3
[2021-05-23T21:56:22Z] <Sweets> I got one for you
[2021-05-23T21:56:23Z] <Sweets> "linux"
[2021-05-23T21:56:27Z] <midfavila> unix-like is a good term too, but broader
[2021-05-23T21:56:28Z] <dilyn> ^
[2021-05-23T21:56:41Z] <carlosdavidepto> is that the orginal author still gets to do whatever the hell they want
[2021-05-23T21:56:49Z] <midfavila> linux, hpux, aix, sysv, n/h/o/dBSD, etc are all dramatically different
[2021-05-23T21:56:52Z] <cem> That's why distribution names exist
[2021-05-23T21:56:53Z] <dilyn> I'm just excited to see how RMS saves me from Big Daddy Landly 
[2021-05-23T21:56:56Z] <midfavila> even if they share a common design structure
[2021-05-23T21:57:07Z] <Sweets> yeah, but it's contextual
[2021-05-23T21:57:20Z] <Sweets> Like, if I were talking to you about a system, I wouldn't just say "*nix," right?
[2021-05-23T21:57:23Z] <carlosdavidepto> but you, the recipient of the gpl v3 covered work, can't sublicence except under the exact terms of the original licence
[2021-05-23T21:57:23Z] <dilyn> carlos are you gonna make me read the whole thing :(  
[2021-05-23T21:57:25Z] <Sweets> I'd say "linux" or "bsd"
[2021-05-23T21:57:42Z] <Sweets> But if we were talking about a variety of systems, I would classify them as "*nix"
[2021-05-23T21:57:50Z] <Sweets> or if they're not all unix-like, I'd say like x86
[2021-05-23T21:57:56Z] <Sweets> or just "pc"
[2021-05-23T21:57:58Z] <carlosdavidepto> dilyn, i will not
[2021-05-23T21:58:11Z] <midfavila> if we're talking about general unix systems, then sure, *nix is fine
[2021-05-23T21:58:32Z] <carlosdavidepto> because this is one of the most convoluted legal docs i've read in the recent past
[2021-05-23T21:58:35Z] <Sweets> So it's contextual, and again, I personally am not going to call linux "GNU/linux" because I don't care about your specific userspace, unless we're talking about userspaces to begin with
[2021-05-23T21:58:45Z] <midfavila> if we're talking about general linux systems, then sure, "linux" is fine. but if we're talking about specific systems?
[2021-05-23T21:58:47Z] * midfavila shrugs
[2021-05-23T21:58:48Z] <carlosdavidepto> and at one point I coordinated a GDPR compliance effort
[2021-05-23T21:58:52Z] <midfavila> ultimately it's not a huge deal
[2021-05-23T21:59:00Z] <cem> dilyn: I'll write a draft to send to sourcehut support
[2021-05-23T21:59:11Z] <Sweets> If we're talking about specific systems I would call it by the distro, "arch", "kiss", "cock ball torture linux"
[2021-05-23T21:59:14Z] <Sweets> I wouldn't jump to userspace
[2021-05-23T21:59:15Z] <carlosdavidepto> so that's saying something
[2021-05-23T21:59:28Z] <dilyn> goodness
[2021-05-23T21:59:35Z] <dilyn> cem: do it
[2021-05-23T22:00:06Z] <Sweets> Calling by distro is much more accurate anyways than saying "GNU/Linux". Saying "GNU/Linux" barely narrows anything down at all
[2021-05-23T22:00:44Z] <Sweets> "GNU/Linux", alright, cool, so like... Debian? Arch? Ubuntu? Cock ball torture linux?
[2021-05-23T22:01:02Z] lastchansen joined
[2021-05-23T22:01:09Z] <Sweets> I know that your system uses the gnu userspace by you saying just a distro name
[2021-05-23T22:01:28Z] <Sweets> so you're like "kiss", cool, now I subconsciously know it isn't GNU
[2021-05-23T22:02:13Z] <midfavila> sure but then you have stuff like Debian GNU+BSD
[2021-05-23T22:02:18Z] <midfavila> not sure if they dropped that, actually...
[2021-05-23T22:02:21Z] <midfavila> ...but it was a thing.
[2021-05-23T22:03:24Z] <Sweets> I guess, but that seems far niche to begin with, and I'm worried moreso for your mental health that you're specifically choosing to use Debian GNU+BSD than I am worried about the grammatical semantics
[2021-05-23T22:04:17Z] <Sweets> But yes, in that case, if for whatever reason you specifically needed to let me know Debian GNU+BSD was the system you're using, I'd say it's appropriate to apply the "GNU" name
[2021-05-23T22:05:34Z] <midfavila> if your concern for my mental health is rooted in me being a pedant... pffft.
[2021-05-23T22:06:06Z] <Sweets> My concern isn't in being pedant, it's the fact that you're using Debian GNU+BSD
[2021-05-23T22:06:26Z] <midfavila> oh
[2021-05-23T22:06:31Z] <midfavila> well, yes, that would also be extremely cursed
[2021-05-23T22:06:47Z] <midfavila> not as cursed as GNU+OpenDarwin or something, though
[2021-05-23T22:06:53Z] <midfavila> which I... *briefly* considered.
[2021-05-23T22:07:24Z] <Sweets> http://gnu-darwin.sourceforge.net/ this thing?
[2021-05-23T22:07:44Z] <midfavila> i did come across that briefly
[2021-05-23T22:07:55Z] <midfavila> but that's not what got me interested
[2021-05-23T22:08:11Z] <midfavila> this was during my period of "linux is too mainstream but I don't want to spend 20k on an IRIX"
[2021-05-23T22:08:22Z] <Sweets> midfavila, I want you to know, if ever my demise is the result of 5.56 through my skull, it's because of "GNU Darwin"
[2021-05-23T22:09:09Z] <midfavila> the website is a lot worse than I remember, haha
[2021-05-23T22:10:27Z] <Sweets> it's not exactly a winner
[2021-05-23T22:13:38Z] <carlosdavidepto> I would have tried out obsd by now if it wasn't for the limited hardware support
[2021-05-23T22:13:53Z] <midfavila> i think my laptop would work
[2021-05-23T22:13:54Z] <carlosdavidepto> that's the main reason I run linux based systems nowadays
[2021-05-23T22:13:59Z] <midfavila> and maybe most of my desktop?
[2021-05-23T22:14:35Z] <midfavila> i'm honestly not sure...
[2021-05-23T22:23:14Z] <claudia> dilyn: I found a workaround for my wf-config/libxml2 issue by symlinking 'ln -s /usr/include/libxml2/libxml /usr/include'.
[2021-05-23T22:23:26Z] <dilyn> yes that is a solution 
[2021-05-23T22:23:50Z] <claudia> Strange thing because the community package worked and does anymore..
[2021-05-23T22:24:15Z] <claudia> Another package relying on libxml2 does build still fine.
[2021-05-23T22:24:20Z] <cem> dilyn: https://termbin.com/d026p what do you think, I'm really bad at composing request letters
[2021-05-23T22:28:24Z] <claudia> cem: not dilynm, maybe a note that you are the author of carbs?
[2021-05-23T22:28:43Z] claudia quit: Quit: zzz
[2021-05-23T22:29:05Z] <dilyn> ^ yes
[2021-05-23T22:29:19Z] <dilyn> but otherwise that's probably fine and I imagine Drew would respect your request
[2021-05-23T22:29:26Z] <dilyn> tho he might ask that you send an official C&D first...
[2021-05-23T22:30:22Z] claudia joined
[2021-05-23T22:32:27Z] <cem> Yeah alright. Thanks claudia and dilyn!
[2021-05-23T22:37:14Z] claudia quit: Quit: claudia
[2021-05-23T22:40:10Z] claudia joined
[2021-05-23T22:53:23Z] <ang> has anyone ever experienced a firmware problem where the kernel complains about missing firmware even though it's definitely in the kernel?
[2021-05-23T22:53:38Z] <ang> this is the link I posted earlier: https://termbin.com/clue
[2021-05-23T22:53:45Z] <ang> would be nice if someone could take look
[2021-05-23T22:55:06Z] <ang> everything should be correct. With a wrong path in CONFIG_EXTRA_FIRMWARE, the kernel doesn't even compile
[2021-05-23T22:55:39Z] <dilyn> is the firmware builtin?
[2021-05-23T22:56:15Z] <ang> yeah, check the termbin
[2021-05-23T22:56:50Z] <dilyn> s/firmware/driver/
[2021-05-23T22:56:56Z] <dilyn> the kernel module itself my b
[2021-05-23T22:57:08Z] <ang> oh
[2021-05-23T22:57:09Z] <cem> ang: value of EXTRA_FIRMWARE should be just iwlwifi-7265D-29.ucode
[2021-05-23T22:57:15Z] <ang> it is builtin
[2021-05-23T22:57:39Z] <dilyn> i don't think so
[2021-05-23T22:57:40Z] <ang> then the kernel wont even compile, cem
[2021-05-23T22:57:42Z] <dilyn> cem
[2021-05-23T22:57:54Z] <dilyn> why use all of them? 
[2021-05-23T22:58:11Z] <ang> just an attempt at throwing everything at it
[2021-05-23T22:58:25Z] <dilyn> ah
[2021-05-23T22:58:46Z] <cem> ang: https://termbin.com/3hjy This is my kernel config
[2021-05-23T22:59:35Z] <ang> aye, firmware is in a different location for me, so I have a subdir
[2021-05-23T22:59:39Z] <ang> it's definitely correct
[2021-05-23T23:01:00Z] <cem> Are you using a monolith kernel, or modular?
[2021-05-23T23:01:24Z] <ang> mostly monolithic
[2021-05-23T23:03:47Z] <cem> I think the naming of the firmware is important in the kernel
[2021-05-23T23:04:13Z] <cem> So linux-firmware/iwl-blah is different than iwl-blah
[2021-05-23T23:04:54Z] <cem> I'd suggest using the traditional way
[2021-05-23T23:05:34Z] <ang> yeah, about to try making the wifi driver a module instead
[2021-05-23T23:06:10Z] Sweets quit: Ping timeout: 264 seconds
[2021-05-23T23:07:05Z] <dilyn> i'd try that definitely 
[2021-05-23T23:07:21Z] <dilyn> i'd make the kernel more verbose in error reporting if that doesn't work 
[2021-05-23T23:07:42Z] <cem> That's not exactly what i meant
[2021-05-23T23:08:25Z] <cem> You can try setting EXTRA_FIRMWARE_DIR to ~/src/kernel/fw/linux-firmware instead of ~/src/kernel/fw
[2021-05-23T23:08:44Z] <cem> And set EXTRA_FIRMWARE to iwlwifi-7265D-29.ucode
[2021-05-23T23:09:11Z] <dilyn> that shouldn't really matter
[2021-05-23T23:09:18Z] <dilyn> mine is the same as angs
[2021-05-23T23:09:47Z] <cem> Oh okay, that's strange
[2021-05-23T23:09:57Z] Sweets joined
[2021-05-23T23:10:09Z] <ang> would be weird if that made a difference
[2021-05-23T23:10:45Z] <dilyn> i'd not strip the kernel and increase the logging level; why that error is so useless i will never understand
[2021-05-23T23:10:58Z] <Sweets> What error is it?
[2021-05-23T23:11:01Z] <Sweets> Just tuned back in
[2021-05-23T23:11:04Z] <dilyn> `-2`
[2021-05-23T23:11:09Z] <dilyn> kernel fails to load a firmware
[2021-05-23T23:11:26Z] <ang> Sweets: https://termbin.com/clue
[2021-05-23T23:13:56Z] <dilyn> do you know exactly which firmware your card needs?
[2021-05-23T23:14:02Z] <dilyn> or is just 'any of these eight' ? 
[2021-05-23T23:14:15Z] <dilyn> because you have a few, but only two in the list dmesg reports 
[2021-05-23T23:14:36Z] <dilyn> s/two/three/
[2021-05-23T23:14:46Z] <Sweets> https://github.com/torvalds/linux/blob/master/drivers/base/firmware_loader/main.c#L830
[2021-05-23T23:14:51Z] <Sweets> Is the firmware compressed?
[2021-05-23T23:15:25Z] <claudia> ang:  Have you checked this? https://wireless.wiki.kernel.org/en/users/drivers/iwlwifi#d_3165_and_3168_support
[2021-05-23T23:15:26Z] <ang> dilyn, 29 is the max supported version, so ideally I'd be using 29
[2021-05-23T23:16:25Z] <Sweets> What it looks like to me, ang, is that your firmware isn't compressed. Sure, you've got the appropriate microcode, but fw_get_filesystem_firmware() assumes it's compressed
[2021-05-23T23:17:04Z] <Sweets> Put it into a .xz
[2021-05-23T23:17:09Z] <ang> oh, nice find, Sweets
[2021-05-23T23:17:16Z] <ang> claudia, yeah, I've read all of that
[2021-05-23T23:17:31Z] <dilyn> compressed firmware support is a separate kernel option, no? 
[2021-05-23T23:17:45Z] <dilyn> if that's off it should accept any ol' .bin etcetc
[2021-05-23T23:17:50Z] <Sweets> mmmm, it may be, but I just read the kernel source, and it assumes that it's compressed
[2021-05-23T23:18:02Z] <dilyn> i mean who knows what intel does/wants/expects...
[2021-05-23T23:18:05Z] <dilyn> worth a shot
[2021-05-23T23:18:10Z] <midfavila> intel does what intel wants
[2021-05-23T23:18:11Z] <midfavila> bitch
[2021-05-23T23:18:16Z] <dilyn> :'(  
[2021-05-23T23:18:20Z] <dilyn> amd gnag
[2021-05-23T23:18:23Z] <midfavila> update that microcode
[2021-05-23T23:18:31Z] <dilyn> disable smp 
[2021-05-23T23:18:36Z] <dilyn> save yourself from your hardware
[2021-05-23T23:18:43Z] <Sweets> If the compression parameter evaluates to null then the kernel will skip decompression, but if we assume that the flag was never changed from the default config then the kernel expects it to be compressed
[2021-05-23T23:18:54Z] <Sweets> https://elixir.bootlin.com/linux/latest/source/drivers/base/firmware_loader/main.c#L550
[2021-05-23T23:19:10Z] <Sweets> So if it will fail if it's not direct-loading
[2021-05-23T23:19:18Z] <Sweets> Which could be what's happening here with ang
[2021-05-23T23:19:25Z] <Sweets> Or I could be completely wrong and I'll go back to reading source
[2021-05-23T23:19:32Z] <dilyn> lmao
[2021-05-23T23:19:41Z] <dilyn> only aaron can discover the truth 
[2021-05-23T23:20:02Z] <ang> yep, just a minute :)
[2021-05-23T23:20:41Z] <midfavila> the chosen one
[2021-05-23T23:21:14Z] <midfavila> inside you is the culmination of #kisslinux's hopes and dreams
[2021-05-23T23:21:29Z] <midfavila> go forth, brave warrior, and plumb the depths of whatever the fuck you guys are troubleshooting.
[2021-05-23T23:21:32Z] <Sweets> the appropriate flag is CONFIG_FW_LOADER_COMPRESS, and its default value is =y
[2021-05-23T23:21:53Z] midfavila quit: Remote host closed the connection
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[2021-05-23T23:22:44Z] <midfavila> gfdi pidgin
[2021-05-23T23:22:58Z] kqz quit: Ping timeout: 264 seconds
[2021-05-23T23:23:33Z] <cem> I used pidgin for the first time today
[2021-05-23T23:23:41Z] <cem> It's so bad
[2021-05-23T23:23:58Z] <midfavila> it's good in a very specific situation
[2021-05-23T23:24:09Z] <midfavila> that very specific situation happens to be the one I'm in
[2021-05-23T23:24:13Z] <cem> On windows?
[2021-05-23T23:24:23Z] <midfavila> no, but I'm split across telegram, discord and IRC rn
[2021-05-23T23:24:35Z] <midfavila> the *attosecond* I'm done with telegram and discord, I'm switching to a proper IRC client
[2021-05-23T23:25:14Z] <ang> damn, no dice
[2021-05-23T23:25:15Z] <ang> Sweets
[2021-05-23T23:25:16Z] <Sweets> also, another potential reason it might not be working @ang, I'm pretty sure the microcode files (.ucode) themselves are supposed to be direct children of your CONFIG_EXTRA_FIRMWARE_DIR.
[2021-05-23T23:25:20Z] <cem> Yeah, that is a very specific situation
[2021-05-23T23:25:43Z] <Sweets> From the termbin file you sent, they're not direct children, but are under linux-formware/iwlwifi-7265
[2021-05-23T23:25:50Z] <ang> in this case, it was placed directly into the CONFIG_EXTRA_FIRMWARE_DIR
[2021-05-23T23:25:57Z] <cem> Sweets: Yeah, that's what I was thinking too
[2021-05-23T23:26:12Z] <Sweets> You sure? https://termbin.com/clue
[2021-05-23T23:26:30Z] <Sweets> CONFIG_EXTRA_FIRMWARE has different paths, too
[2021-05-23T23:26:34Z] <ang> I mean with the compressed blob I just compiled in
[2021-05-23T23:27:02Z] <Sweets> you've got it all as `linux-firmware/iwlwifi-...`, but they're actually `linux-firmware/iwlwifi-7265/iwlwifi-...`
[2021-05-23T23:27:19Z] <Sweets> you can probably get rid of the compressed file then, but I'd double check your listings
[2021-05-23T23:27:28Z] <Sweets> Your directory tree for your firmware dir seems all fucky wucky
[2021-05-23T23:27:30Z] <ang> lemme see
[2021-05-23T23:27:44Z] <Sweets> CONFIG_EXTRA_FIRMWARE and the actual filesystem don't match at al
[2021-05-23T23:27:46Z] <Sweets> all*
[2021-05-23T23:28:12Z] <ang> where are you getting the subdir from?
[2021-05-23T23:28:23Z] <Sweets> the text you posted
[2021-05-23T23:28:27Z] <Sweets> textfile
[2021-05-23T23:29:14Z] <ang> oh, that's just my bad, the last directory listing is just tab-completion
[2021-05-23T23:29:16Z] <Sweets> seems like it should be CONFIG_EXTRA_FIRMWARE="intel-ucode/06-3d-04 linux-firmware/iwlwifi-7265/iwlwifi-7265D-12.ucode ..."
[2021-05-23T23:29:21Z] <Sweets> hmm
[2021-05-23T23:29:26Z] <ang> not the actual ls command
[2021-05-23T23:29:42Z] kqz joined
[2021-05-23T23:30:25Z] <ang> no no, paths were definitely correct. make will complain if you list a non-existant file in CONFIG_EXTRA_FIRMWARE_DIR
[2021-05-23T23:30:45Z] <Sweets> Well let's see. For "direct firmware load..." message to be shown, it has to be a valid entry in the filesystem, so at the very least that's good
[2021-05-23T23:31:00Z] <Sweets> what is the value of CONFIG_FW_LOADER_COMPRESS in your configuration?
[2021-05-23T23:31:02Z] <Sweets> I'll assume =n
[2021-05-23T23:31:34Z] <ang> yep, it's =n
[2021-05-23T23:31:42Z] <ang> not set rather
[2021-05-23T23:31:49Z] cem quit: Remote host closed the connection
[2021-05-23T23:32:09Z] <Sweets> alright then, firmware_fallback_platform() it is.
[2021-05-23T23:33:20Z] <ang> I will try with a file directly inside CONFIG_EXTRA_FIRMWARE_DIR, no sub dirs
[2021-05-23T23:33:42Z] <Sweets> and firmware_fallback_platform() only fails if... efi_get_embedded_fw() or security_kernel_post_load_data() fails.
[2021-05-23T23:33:49Z] <ang> a sub dir worked for my cpus microcode though
[2021-05-23T23:34:18Z] <Sweets> id you ever get an error like this?  "called while we did not check for embedded fw"
[2021-05-23T23:35:38Z] <ang> never seen that
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[2021-05-23T23:37:59Z] <dilyn> i should've tried getting my wireless card working on this board then maybe i'd know :X  
[2021-05-23T23:38:44Z] <Sweets> what is this path? intel-ucode/06-3d-04
[2021-05-23T23:39:00Z] <dilyn> that's the microcode for his cpu
[2021-05-23T23:39:03Z] <ang> cpu microcode (which works)
[2021-05-23T23:39:06Z] <Sweets> alright
[2021-05-23T23:40:05Z] <ang> lmao
[2021-05-23T23:40:09Z] <ang> cem was right all along
[2021-05-23T23:40:15Z] <dilyn> insanity
[2021-05-23T23:40:24Z] <Sweets> you figured it out?
[2021-05-23T23:40:26Z] <ang> why tf would it matter
[2021-05-23T23:40:28Z] <dilyn> so it expects the hierarchy in linux-firmware.tar.xz??
[2021-05-23T23:40:37Z] <ang> yeah, I put the blob into the root of CONFIG_EXTRA_FIRMWARE_DIR now
[2021-05-23T23:40:45Z] <ang> no subdir, and it works...
[2021-05-23T23:40:51Z] <Sweets> was that the same blob I told you to make :thunk:
[2021-05-23T23:40:57Z] <ang> no, uncompressed
[2021-05-23T23:41:00Z] <Sweets> ah
[2021-05-23T23:41:09Z] <dilyn> kernels are dumb, firmware is stupid 
[2021-05-23T23:41:13Z] <Sweets> there you go
[2021-05-23T23:41:14Z] <dilyn> where my free hardware at 
[2021-05-23T23:41:24Z] <ang> thanks for the help, Sweets
[2021-05-23T23:41:29Z] <Sweets> I didn't do anything
[2021-05-23T23:41:31Z] <Sweets> but yw ig
[2021-05-23T23:41:48Z] <ang> well, I wouldn't have tried without a subdir if it wasn't for you
[2021-05-23T23:42:10Z] <Sweets> I mean, all I did was read kernel source. And funnily enough, came out more confused than I went in
[2021-05-23T23:44:01Z] kqz joined
[2021-05-23T23:44:31Z] <ang> lol, not surprising