💾 Archived View for gemini.ctrl-c.club › ~phoebos › logs › freenode-kisslinux-2021-03-03.txt captured on 2024-05-26 at 16:18:20.

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2021-03-03T00:00:11 #kisslinux <midfavila> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:I0016363.tif
2021-03-03T00:00:14 #kisslinux <midfavila> one of these too
2021-03-03T00:00:35 #kisslinux <konimex> acheam: mac support is still kinda iffy there
2021-03-03T00:00:48 #kisslinux <midfavila> >mac support
2021-03-03T00:01:35 #kisslinux <acheam> ew
2021-03-03T00:01:52 #kisslinux <konimex> but that's not my speciality, I usually add obscure systems such as AIX or IRIX
2021-03-03T00:02:29 #kisslinux <midfavila> irix is cool
2021-03-03T01:46:28 #kisslinux <dilyn27> I suddenly maintain like 400 packages across all these repos
2021-03-03T01:46:36 #kisslinux <necromansy> ripp
2021-03-03T01:46:41 #kisslinux <dilyn27> PSA: if anybody wants any packages I maintain in community, feel free to take them from me
2021-03-03T01:55:42 #kisslinux <necromansy> i might geeze at what ya maintaining
2021-03-03T01:57:34 #kisslinux <dilyn27> if I include every package git-bruh is maintaining and the things dylan wrote which won't be saying updates plus what I already had, it's almost 100 packages in community
2021-03-03T01:58:18 #kisslinux <dilyn27> there'll be an issue made in community at the end of march to offload some of those when I start chasing people for outdated packages
2021-03-03T01:58:42 #kisslinux <necromansy> yeah deffo time to start adding to the graveyard i reckon
2021-03-03T02:02:54 #kisslinux <dilyn27> yeah I am not shy of murdering packages
2021-03-03T02:03:07 #kisslinux <dilyn27> marie kondo that shit
2021-03-03T02:03:10 #kisslinux <midfavila> packocide
2021-03-03T02:03:25 #kisslinux <midfavila> guillotine the fuck out of them
2021-03-03T02:05:42 #kisslinux <dilyn27> speaking of guillotining the fuck out of things
2021-03-03T02:06:10 #kisslinux <dilyn27> there's a new RFC for arch asking if they should change the CFLAGS they use for their binaries to x86_64-v2
2021-03-03T02:06:17 #kisslinux <necromansy> ??
2021-03-03T02:06:21 #kisslinux <midfavila> wait what
2021-03-03T02:06:27 #kisslinux <midfavila> does that... does that even exist???
2021-03-03T02:06:29 #kisslinux <dilyn27> some people are mad that their *rolling release distro* wont' support their decade old processor anymore
2021-03-03T02:06:50 #kisslinux <midfavila> well yeah that's totally a fair thing to be pissy about
2021-03-03T02:06:50 #kisslinux <dilyn27> it expands the optimization flags enabled for processors after a certain generation, I don't remember what it's called specifically
2021-03-03T02:06:58 #kisslinux <dilyn27> bruh it's a rolling distro
2021-03-03T02:07:02 #kisslinux <midfavila> what's your point
2021-03-03T02:07:14 #kisslinux <dilyn27> what's a guiding principle for supporting old hardware?
2021-03-03T02:07:34 #kisslinux <midfavila> generally not obsoleting it unless absolutely necessary
2021-03-03T02:07:37 #kisslinux <dilyn27> like, why are you using arch if your box is technologically ancient?
2021-03-03T02:07:46 #kisslinux <midfavila> because arch is in theory a lightweight distro
2021-03-03T02:07:56 #kisslinux <dilyn27> I would disagree with that
2021-03-03T02:08:01 #kisslinux <midfavila> that doesn't require a ton of work on the part of the enduser's machine but can still provide a customizable experience
2021-03-03T02:08:10 #kisslinux <midfavila> utlimately idc because arch is cringe and stupid anyway
2021-03-03T02:08:21 #kisslinux <midfavila> ultimately*
2021-03-03T02:08:50 #kisslinux <dilyn27> lol
2021-03-03T02:09:04 #kisslinux <midfavila> it totally is
2021-03-03T02:09:05 #kisslinux <dilyn27> I just don't know why a user who won't upgrade their processor from 2004 would want to use KF5
2021-03-03T02:09:14 #kisslinux <dilyn27> or like, anything released after 2010 tbh
2021-03-03T02:09:18 #kisslinux <midfavila> and I mean, they don't need a reason
2021-03-03T02:09:28 #kisslinux <dilyn27> it absolutely isn't; they enable every option for packages
2021-03-03T02:09:30 #kisslinux <midfavila> maybe they just really like their particular... idk laptop
2021-03-03T02:09:35 #kisslinux <dilyn27> their vim build is probbaly --huge
2021-03-03T02:09:44 #kisslinux <midfavila> for example I used to have an IBM A31p
2021-03-03T02:09:51 #kisslinux <dilyn27> lol then they can use ABS to build their packages
2021-03-03T02:10:08 #kisslinux <midfavila> i mean at that point switch to gentoo or smgl
2021-03-03T02:10:11 #kisslinux <midfavila> or kiss or slackware
2021-03-03T02:10:15 #kisslinux <midfavila> or really any distro that isn't dogshit
2021-03-03T02:10:28 #kisslinux <dilyn27> right
2021-03-03T02:10:50 #kisslinux <dilyn27> Like I don't know what the intersection of old-hardware users and arch users looks like. Who are they? and more importantly, why?
2021-03-03T02:11:01 #kisslinux <midfavila> they don't need a why
2021-03-03T02:11:04 #kisslinux <midfavila> it's their machine
2021-03-03T02:11:13 #kisslinux <midfavila> maybe they just like arch
2021-03-03T02:11:15 #kisslinux <dilyn27> and it's not their ditro s
2021-03-03T02:11:25 #kisslinux <dilyn27> s/ s//
2021-03-03T02:11:27 #kisslinux <kissbot> <dilyn27> and it's not their ditro
2021-03-03T02:11:28 #kisslinux <necromansy> sure but they shouldnt expect a distro to support the hardware if its not part of the goals
2021-03-03T02:11:40 #kisslinux <necromansy> same reason why Dylan btfo'd non-x86-64 support
2021-03-03T02:11:47 #kisslinux <midfavila> distros that use binaries should support as much hardware as possible
2021-03-03T02:11:51 #kisslinux <dilyn27> why?
2021-03-03T02:11:58 #kisslinux <midfavila> maximizes the potential number of users
2021-03-03T02:12:06 #kisslinux <midfavila> and also provides choice *to* those users
2021-03-03T02:12:07 #kisslinux <dilyn27> we don't do that
2021-03-03T02:12:12 #kisslinux <midfavila> we don't use binaries
2021-03-03T02:12:21 #kisslinux <dilyn27> choice?
2021-03-03T02:12:28 #kisslinux <midfavila> our "packages" are basically automated LFS builds
2021-03-03T02:12:32 #kisslinux <midfavila> with some extra flavor
2021-03-03T02:12:39 #kisslinux <dilyn27> yes, and...?
2021-03-03T02:12:44 #kisslinux <dilyn27> that isn't the point
2021-03-03T02:12:50 #kisslinux <midfavila> that's totally my point
2021-03-03T02:12:57 #kisslinux <midfavila> a binary distro puts choice in the hands of upstream
2021-03-03T02:13:02 #kisslinux <dilyn27> the point is that considering at least one distro does not aim to maximize the user base, why should we expect any other distro to?
2021-03-03T02:13:08 #kisslinux <midfavila> so they should make choices that maximize the remaining choice for the enduser
2021-03-03T02:13:13 #kisslinux <dilyn27> ~why~
2021-03-03T02:13:19 #kisslinux <midfavila> why not?
2021-03-03T02:13:24 #kisslinux <dilyn27> right
2021-03-03T02:13:26 #kisslinux <dilyn27> exactly
2021-03-03T02:13:26 #kisslinux <midfavila> enduser choice is always a good thing.
2021-03-03T02:13:30 #kisslinux <dilyn27> no
2021-03-03T02:13:33 #kisslinux <midfavila> yes.
2021-03-03T02:13:40 #kisslinux <midfavila> i'm right and you're wrong reeee
2021-03-03T02:13:48 #kisslinux <dilyn27> lol
2021-03-03T02:13:56 #kisslinux * midfavila brandishes M1917 bayonet
2021-03-03T02:14:03 #kisslinux <dilyn27> I also don't think running a binary distro aligns with the goal of 'maximizing end user choice', indeed it's the opposite
2021-03-03T02:14:08 #kisslinux <midfavila> sure
2021-03-03T02:14:17 #kisslinux <midfavila> i agree with that
2021-03-03T02:14:23 #kisslinux <dilyn27> and arch doesn't aim to support everyone. they literally they don't want that
2021-03-03T02:14:34 #kisslinux <dilyn27> so there's no good reason to suspect they should care about old hardware
2021-03-03T02:14:41 #kisslinux <midfavila> does this v2 flag even have much of an advantage though?
2021-03-03T02:14:55 #kisslinux <dilyn27> super unlikely, which makes this whole RFC all the more stupid
2021-03-03T02:15:01 #kisslinux <necromansy> lmao
2021-03-03T02:15:02 #kisslinux <necromansy> ffs
2021-03-03T02:15:05 #kisslinux <midfavila> that's another point in favor of *not* doing it then
2021-03-03T02:15:11 #kisslinux <midfavila> and honestly a much better one
2021-03-03T02:15:19 #kisslinux <midfavila> than "Muh retro thonkpad"
2021-03-03T02:15:22 #kisslinux <dilyn27> it's basically going to piss off old hardware users and not give any real benefits to people with hardware newer than a toddler
2021-03-03T02:15:28 #kisslinux <dilyn27> indeed
2021-03-03T02:16:30 #kisslinux <dilyn27> eli schwartz suggested they go full neckbeard with x86-64-v4 and I wholeheartedly agree with that. if you're going to optimize packages, fucking optimize them
2021-03-03T02:17:17 #kisslinux <midfavila> ngl I just optimize my packages based on micro-arch
2021-03-03T02:18:02 #kisslinux <dilyn27> -Ofast -funroll-loops -ffuck-stability -flulz
2021-03-03T02:18:17 #kisslinux <midfavila> rate my cflags reddit
2021-03-03T02:18:20 #kisslinux <midfavila> gibs me upboats
2021-03-03T02:19:07 #kisslinux <midfavila> i'm having *way* too much fun with this bayonet
2021-03-03T02:32:32 #kisslinux <kiedtl> let me know when ur proficient, we can go after the ibm ninjas then
2021-03-03T02:33:03 #kisslinux <midfavila> i mean it seems pretty easy to use considering i've taken fencing classes before
2021-03-03T02:33:14 #kisslinux <midfavila> but IBM makes rifles
2021-03-03T02:33:14 #kisslinux <kiedtl> o.o nice
2021-03-03T02:33:18 #kisslinux <midfavila> and I feel like in the game of rifles-knives-grenades rifles tend to win
2021-03-03T02:33:23 #kisslinux <midfavila> also
2021-03-03T02:33:32 #kisslinux <midfavila> i find it highly amusing that International Business Machines made rifles
2021-03-03T02:33:33 #kisslinux <kiedtl> I dunno, do ninjas use rifles?
2021-03-03T02:33:40 #kisslinux <kiedtl> seems a bit... noisy
2021-03-03T02:33:47 #kisslinux <midfavila> the ninjas in metal gear solid 4 use P90s
2021-03-03T02:33:51 #kisslinux <midfavila> which are rifled SMGs
2021-03-03T02:33:52 #kisslinux <kiedtl> ¯_(ツ)_/¯
2021-03-03T02:33:57 #kisslinux <midfavila> and you could argue those are therefore rifles
2021-03-03T02:33:58 #kisslinux <midfavila> so like
2021-03-03T02:34:01 #kisslinux <midfavila> idk
2021-03-03T02:34:05 #kisslinux <kiedtl> freenode seems to having a lot of linker errors lately, huh
2021-03-03T02:34:17 #kisslinux <midfavila> quick
2021-03-03T02:34:20 #kisslinux <midfavila> blame poettering
2021-03-03T02:34:25 #kisslinux <midfavila> something he did caused this
2021-03-03T02:34:25 #kisslinux <kiedtl> lol
2021-03-03T02:37:15 #kisslinux <dilyn27> mattel made (makes?) rifles
2021-03-03T02:37:28 #kisslinux <midfavila> yeah I knew that
2021-03-03T02:37:41 #kisslinux <midfavila> general electric manufactures miniguns
2021-03-03T02:38:03 #kisslinux <midfavila> the M134 in particular
2021-03-03T02:38:07 #kisslinux <midfavila> which I believe they also designed
2021-03-03T02:38:50 #kisslinux <testuser_[m]> hi
2021-03-03T02:38:57 #kisslinux <midfavila> hello again
2021-03-03T02:40:10 #kisslinux <kiedtl> hi
2021-03-03T02:48:49 #kisslinux <necromansy> hello
2021-03-03T09:42:24 #kisslinux <testuser_[m]> does ccache's cache get invalidated if the compiler is the same but name is different ? say i forced CC=gcc in a package, and then i set CC=cc (symlink to gcc)
2021-03-03T09:42:42 #kisslinux <testuser_[m]> cc used will be /usr/lib/ccache/cc instead of /usr/lib/ccache/gcc
2021-03-03T11:50:21 #kisslinux <riteo> hi!
2021-03-03T11:50:59 #kisslinux <necromansy> hey!
2021-03-03T11:51:10 #kisslinux <travankor> hi everyone
2021-03-03T12:06:44 #kisslinux <testuser_[m]> hi
2021-03-03T12:08:26 #kisslinux <travankor> nice, song of the day is updated ^_^
2021-03-03T16:03:48 #kisslinux <claudia02> dilynm : I hope all those comments on the wayland article are not too anoying :v
2021-03-03T17:04:10 #kisslinux <ominous_anonymou> https://lwn.net/SubscriberLink/847412/d7826b1353e33734/ some more information on PipeWire
2021-03-03T17:21:37 #kisslinux <kiedtl> Ah, display protocol bikeshedding, my favorite
2021-03-03T17:21:55 #kisslinux <kiedtl> Which one was that?
2021-03-03T17:24:50 #kisslinux <ominous_anonymou> audio, not video
2021-03-03T17:25:19 #kisslinux <ominous_anonymou> unless you were referencing the wayland article :)
2021-03-03T17:34:53 #kisslinux <midfavila> oh boy, now I can shove even more crap on top of alsa
2021-03-03T17:34:59 #kisslinux <midfavila> can't wait
2021-03-03T17:41:17 #kisslinux <testuser_[m]> nice
2021-03-03T17:45:49 #kisslinux <kiedtl> ominous_anonymou: yeah, the wayland article; I was wondering which one that was
2021-03-03T17:49:22 #kisslinux <dilyn> claudia02: I appreciate the comments and stuff like that is exactly what I'm hoping to get :)
2021-03-03T17:49:55 #kisslinux <dilyn> slim pages == good pages imo. arch wiki is bloated and gross and I want to stop having to look things up there
2021-03-03T17:50:04 #kisslinux <midfavila> agreed
2021-03-03T17:50:35 #kisslinux <midfavila> manpages tend to be overly verbose I find
2021-03-03T17:50:48 #kisslinux <midfavila> very little information in far too much text
2021-03-03T17:56:54 #kisslinux <ominous_anonymou> @kiedtl the wiki page for wayland https://github.com/kiss-community/wiki/pull/5
2021-03-03T17:58:19 #kisslinux <acheam> midfavila:  dont be going after manpages like that
2021-03-03T17:58:53 #kisslinux <dilyn> manpages suck
2021-03-03T17:59:02 #kisslinux <dilyn> #banman
2021-03-03T17:59:08 #kisslinux <acheam> nooooo
2021-03-03T17:59:10 #kisslinux <acheam> manpages good
2021-03-03T17:59:19 #kisslinux <acheam> centralized, standardized format for help on the system
2021-03-03T17:59:22 #kisslinux <midfavila> we only use strong, independent womanpages here
2021-03-03T17:59:34 #kisslinux <midfavila> this is a progressive distro
2021-03-03T18:01:28 #kisslinux <dilyn> infopages only
2021-03-03T18:02:26 #kisslinux <acheam> no
2021-03-03T18:03:09 #kisslinux <midfavila> manpages as a concept are great
2021-03-03T18:03:12 #kisslinux <testuser_[m]> yes
2021-03-03T18:03:14 #kisslinux <midfavila> but modern execution is garbage
2021-03-03T18:03:38 #kisslinux <midfavila> infopages, however, are dogshit
2021-03-03T18:03:40 #kisslinux <midfavila> sorry GNU
2021-03-03T18:03:49 #kisslinux <acheam> thats why tldr pages and stuff exist
2021-03-03T18:06:42 #kisslinux <ominous_anonymou> just move everything to jupyter notebooks and profit
2021-03-03T18:07:47 #kisslinux <acheam> stop I can only get so turned on
2021-03-03T18:08:21 #kisslinux <acheam> all documentation is through the web browser, why tf haven't we thought of this yet?
2021-03-03T18:09:01 #kisslinux <ominous_anonymou> and runnable code blocks!
2021-03-03T18:09:29 #kisslinux <acheam> hnnng
2021-03-03T18:11:19 #kisslinux <midfavila> oh boy
2021-03-03T18:13:40 #kisslinux <dilyn> just read the code it's self documenting
2021-03-03T18:13:46 #kisslinux <dilyn> hahahHAHAHAHAHAHAHA
2021-03-03T18:14:22 #kisslinux <midfavila> if everyone wrote clean, simple code, then maybe
2021-03-03T18:14:52 #kisslinux <chrchwrdn> Runnable code blocks please, but only on destructive commands
2021-03-03T18:15:40 #kisslinux <testuser_[m]> man fuck this garbage browser
2021-03-03T18:15:59 #kisslinux <kiedtl> but
2021-03-03T18:16:04 #kisslinux <kiedtl> browsers are the future
2021-03-03T18:16:12 #kisslinux <midfavila> the only good browser is libwww
2021-03-03T18:16:24 #kisslinux <acheam> libcurl ftw
2021-03-03T18:42:15 #kisslinux <dilyn> oi kiedtl: did you end up messaging me again yesterday?
2021-03-03T19:15:04 #kisslinux <kiedtl> dilyn: fuck, I completely forgot about that whole thing
2021-03-03T19:15:15 #kisslinux <dilyn> lmao no worries
2021-03-03T19:15:20 #kisslinux <kiedtl> I'll get to it Later Today(c)
2021-03-03T19:16:10 #kisslinux <dilyn> email might be better for me; i'm probably hopping off right after work
2021-03-03T19:17:13 #kisslinux <midfavila> R(c)TM
2021-03-03T19:17:23 #kisslinux <midfavila> a product of procrastination corp
2021-03-03T19:17:44 #kisslinux <kiedtl> dilyn, ok, I'll email you if anything's needed
2021-03-03T19:18:56 #kisslinux <dilyn> gucci gang
2021-03-03T20:31:43 #kisslinux <acheam> people might like thi
2021-03-03T20:31:45 #kisslinux <acheam> s
2021-03-03T20:31:47 #kisslinux <acheam> https://sr.ht/~rabbits/smol-gui/
2021-03-03T20:35:39 #kisslinux <kiedtl> 100r's stuff is so cool
2021-03-03T20:36:53 #kisslinux <mcpcpc[m]> acheam: oh wow. nice. thanks for sharing.
2021-03-03T20:49:13 #kisslinux <acheam> anyone use bearssl?
2021-03-03T21:35:02 #kisslinux <dilyn> merakor: tried it on carbs
2021-03-03T21:35:21 #kisslinux <dilyn> #oasis uses bearssl
2021-03-03T21:35:47 #kisslinux <dilyn> s/oasis/oasislinux/
2021-03-03T21:35:48 #kisslinux <kissbot> <dilyn> #oasislinux uses bearssl
2021-03-03T21:35:59 #kisslinux <acheam> does libressl have anything over bearssl?
2021-03-03T21:36:20 #kisslinux <dilyn> it works for more things without a lot of patching and hacking
2021-03-03T21:36:26 #kisslinux <acheam> hmmm
2021-03-03T21:36:28 #kisslinux <dilyn> i believe that is why carbs dropped it
2021-03-03T21:36:49 #kisslinux <acheam> I mean, at the end of they day what do you really need an ssl library for?
2021-03-03T21:37:06 #kisslinux <acheam> browser, IRC client, email client, curl
2021-03-03T21:38:04 #kisslinux <dilyn> wpa_supplicant, python, openssh, openntpd, linux, gnupg1, git, ffmpeg, cmake, and curl all use it on my system
2021-03-03T21:38:09 #kisslinux <dilyn> cmake is my favorite one :s
2021-03-03T21:38:12 #kisslinux <acheam> what
2021-03-03T21:38:14 #kisslinux <acheam> why
2021-03-03T21:38:33 #kisslinux <dilyn> to verify downloads and stuff is what i loosely gathered when i looked into it
2021-03-03T21:38:44 #kisslinux <acheam> I forgot about all the libraries and programming languages...
2021-03-03T21:39:43 #kisslinux <dilyn> people love their libcrypto!
2021-03-03T21:39:51 #kisslinux <acheam> i'm but a lowly openssl user though
2021-03-03T21:51:14 #kisslinux <noocsharp> its kinda dumb how the standard cryptography library comes from a TLS implementation
2021-03-03T21:52:16 #kisslinux <noocsharp> like all these programs that don't actually use TLS require Libre/OpenSSL
2021-03-03T21:52:47 #kisslinux <kiedtl> I'm not sure I understand...
2021-03-03T21:53:02 #kisslinux <kiedtl> As far as I'm aware SSL is deprecated and TLS is the currently used method
2021-03-03T21:54:39 #kisslinux <noocsharp> yeah LibreSSL/OpenSSL implement TLS, and happen to have a cryptography library that a bunch of programs that need cryptography use, despite these programs not using TLS
2021-03-03T21:55:40 #kisslinux <kiedtl> Oh, I see what you're saying.
2021-03-03T23:46:49 #kisslinux <dilyn> I should buy a domain so that my website doesn't have such a stupid address
2021-03-03T23:47:03 #kisslinux <dilyn> can I buy dilyn.corner so that my email can be dilyn.corner⊙dc
2021-03-03T23:47:05 #kisslinux <dilyn> #genius
2021-03-03T23:48:17 #kisslinux <dilyn> what how is corner not a tld
2021-03-03T23:51:13 #kisslinux <noocsharp> one day i will lay claim to nihalje.re
2021-03-03T23:51:28 #kisslinux <kiedtl> dilyn: try corn.er
2021-03-03T23:51:34 #kisslinux <kiedtl> dilyn⊙ce
2021-03-03T23:51:47 #kisslinux <dilyn> ngh
2021-03-03T23:51:53 #kisslinux <dilyn> that feels bad
2021-03-03T23:51:56 #kisslinux <noocsharp> er isn't a tld unfortunately
2021-03-03T23:52:01 #kisslinux <kiedtl> damn
2021-03-03T23:52:23 #kisslinux <kiedtl> dilyn: actually, when k1ss.org goes up just grab it and have dylan⊙ko
2021-03-03T23:52:29 #kisslinux <noocsharp> oh wait, it is, but i dont think it can be used outside of Eritrea
2021-03-03T23:52:34 #kisslinux <kiedtl> Ah
2021-03-03T23:52:35 #kisslinux <dilyn> lmfao
2021-03-03T23:52:37 #kisslinux <kiedtl> the bastards
2021-03-03T23:52:46 #kisslinux <dilyn> I want my own website for my own stuff separate from k1ss
2021-03-03T23:53:47 #kisslinux <midfavila> >Eritrea
2021-03-03T23:53:59 #kisslinux <midfavila> now if that doesn't sound like a land from a fantasy game, I don't know what does
2021-03-03T23:54:00 #kisslinux <dilyn> the land of dreams
2021-03-03T23:54:09 #kisslinux <midfavila> gonna look it up now
2021-03-03T23:54:15 #kisslinux <midfavila> watch it be some shit wasteland
2021-03-03T23:54:23 #kisslinux <dilyn> it's in africa
2021-03-03T23:54:30 #kisslinux <midfavila> h m
2021-03-03T23:55:06 #kisslinux <dilyn> forget where though. hope it's in the pretty part that isn't getting eaten by the sahara
2021-03-03T23:57:38 #kisslinux <midfavila> totally unrelated but man
2021-03-03T23:57:45 #kisslinux <midfavila> I'm having *way* too much fun with my bayonet
2021-03-03T23:57:51 #kisslinux <midfavila> an adult needs to confiscate it from me