💾 Archived View for gemini.ctrl-c.club › ~phoebos › logs › freenode-kisslinux-2020-10-08.txt captured on 2024-05-26 at 16:21:45.
⬅️ Previous capture (2021-12-17)
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2020-10-08T03:53:05 #kisslinux <E5ten> dylanaraps: I'd use puts() instead of printf("%sn")
2020-10-08T03:53:59 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> E5ten: Fixed Makefile
2020-10-08T03:55:39 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> Also swapped to puts
2020-10-08T03:55:40 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> Thanks
2020-10-08T06:16:01 #kisslinux <kinkinkijkin> I think I will make an implementation of a kiss package manager in not-bash and make it have some optional features i really want to see in a package manager
2020-10-08T06:16:54 #kisslinux <kinkinkijkin> such as natively reading a package install/update list from a file, writing lists of upgradeable packages to a file or a couple files
2020-10-08T06:18:00 #kisslinux <kinkinkijkin> these two features being useful in tandem to quickly update a full system without the package manager needing to keep a keepfile
2020-10-08T06:19:30 #kisslinux <kinkinkijkin> just waiting on a laptop power supply to arrive so i can try out/test kiss on one of my laptops
2020-10-08T07:08:38 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> kinkinkijkin: Package manager is in POSIX shell, not bash fwiw. Also, package manager has no "keepfile". Hooks could be extended to allow you to control this via KISS_HOOK. You could even do this as a simple script. No need to fork the entire thing. :)
2020-10-08T07:09:29 #kisslinux <kinkinkijkin> i want to fork the entire thing though, i can create a hook in sh and also make my port
2020-10-08T07:09:43 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> If you want to fork, that's a different story :P
2020-10-08T07:10:14 #kisslinux <kinkinkijkin> by "keepfile" i mean a file tracking protected packages
2020-10-08T07:10:35 #kisslinux <kinkinkijkin> as in, packages held against upgrade
2020-10-08T07:10:59 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> Like this? https://k1ss.org/package-manager#5.3
2020-10-08T07:11:20 #kisslinux <kinkinkijkin> yes, exactly like that
2020-10-08T07:11:58 #kisslinux <kinkinkijkin> i find that system to be potentially convoluted, as it requires manually protecting every package you want protected
2020-10-08T07:12:36 #kisslinux <kinkinkijkin> instead of say, skimming through an update list and removing particular packages by hand, which is a process some people prefer
2020-10-08T07:13:41 #kisslinux <kinkinkijkin> selective removal and selective addition and all that, the end result is the same but providing the option to build in support to use another can be helpful in moderation
2020-10-08T07:15:22 #kisslinux <kinkinkijkin> generating lists of packages in various states (protected but not updated or similar) can also be useful
2020-10-08T07:15:49 #kisslinux <kinkinkijkin> mostly tools for the gazing-eye method of system administration which i prefer for my low-purpose laptops
2020-10-08T07:17:02 #kisslinux <kinkinkijkin> actual automation in such a small system is unnecessary, hence adding the tooling to easily avoid it
2020-10-08T07:24:23 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> Yeah
2020-10-08T08:14:32 #kisslinux <muevoid> Anyone on xorg willing to test something(if you were willing to would require a lib or two downloaded)
2020-10-08T10:44:35 #kisslinux <onodera> I am getting every single kiss u, "<package> has not yet been build"
2020-10-08T10:44:36 #kisslinux <onodera> as an error
2020-10-08T10:45:11 #kisslinux <onodera> it seems like it is trying to install a package before actually building it, but it does this for the second package
2020-10-08T10:45:37 #kisslinux <onodera> so: "build pkg 1 -> install pkg 1 -> install pkg 2 -> fails because it has not been build yey
2020-10-08T12:49:47 #kisslinux <miskatonic> may pkgsrc (of netbsd fame) be used under kiss?
2020-10-08T13:26:00 #kisslinux <kinkinkijkin> miskatonic as far as i can tell, as long as it doesn't necessitate a wholly incompatible fs structure and works with busybox + musl, it should be fine
2020-10-08T13:27:35 #kisslinux <kinkinkijkin> even in massive, monolithic distros you see people using various software management systems all the time, and pkgsrc isn't exactly restrictive
2020-10-08T13:28:03 #kisslinux <kinkinkijkin> so I don't see why it mayn't
2020-10-08T13:28:34 #kisslinux <kinkinkijkin> just remember not to double-install software
2020-10-08T13:51:19 #kisslinux <miskatonic> ouch, patches are required for compiling from pkgsrc with musl, and the list of patches is already 6 years old
2020-10-08T13:52:40 #kisslinux <aosync> kiss is convoluted?
2020-10-08T13:52:46 #kisslinux <aosync> in what sense ?
2020-10-08T14:23:48 #kisslinux <dilyn> onodera: I'm having a similar problem; are you using the repo/testing version of kiss?
2020-10-08T14:39:19 #kisslinux <E5ten> dylanaraps: btw, libgen.h and {base,dir}name are XSI, so if your goal is full POSIX compat you'll have to replace them, the reason they aren't hidden behind _XOPEN_SOURCE is because the header itself is XSI only, so there's no need for FTM gating
2020-10-08T14:46:53 #kisslinux <E5ten> since the single use of each of the 2 libgen functions are both done on the result of getcwd, which has to be fully expanded, absolute, no trailing slashes, etc. I think just using strrchr with '/' shouldn't be too hard, because you don't have to deal with many corner cases that you would with arbitrary paths
2020-10-08T15:02:02 #kisslinux <E5ten> dylanaraps: I think this works http://ix.io/2A6o
2020-10-08T15:04:08 #kisslinux <E5ten> also imo you should define _POSIX_C_SOURCE in the Makefile instead of adding it to various source files as needed
2020-10-08T15:05:27 #kisslinux <E5ten> that way you're ensuring a consistent standard being applied throughout, as well as preventing non-POSIX functions from being defined in source files without the define (iirc if you don't pass -std and don't define any ftms then the headers will expose stuff as if _BSD_SOURCE had been defined or something)
2020-10-08T15:06:41 #kisslinux <dilyn> anybody having issues building libxcb? http://ix.io/2A6q
2020-10-08T15:07:22 #kisslinux <E5ten> do you have xcb-proto installed?
2020-10-08T15:07:36 #kisslinux <dilyn> yeah
2020-10-08T15:07:48 #kisslinux <dilyn> which is why it's confusing
2020-10-08T15:08:12 #kisslinux <dilyn> i know python got bumped recently but all the xcb stuff is latest afaik and we didn't change the python build from the last version
2020-10-08T15:09:31 #kisslinux <dan[m]1> anyone got any experience with making X11 window managers?
2020-10-08T15:10:08 #kisslinux <E5ten> dilyn: https://gitlab.freedesktop.org/xorg/proto/xcbproto/-/merge_requests/8 try applying this
2020-10-08T15:10:22 #kisslinux <E5ten> to xcb-proto not to libxcb
2020-10-08T15:10:54 #kisslinux <dilyn> looky there
2020-10-08T15:10:55 #kisslinux <dilyn> will try
2020-10-08T15:11:27 #kisslinux <dilyn> guess they just didn't do a new release, which seems like a super bad plan
2020-10-08T15:22:07 #kisslinux <dilyn> twerks
2020-10-08T15:22:14 #kisslinux <dilyn> hopefully they'll get on that soon
2020-10-08T15:24:20 #kisslinux <sh4rm4^bnc> <dilyn> i know python got bumped recently
2020-10-08T15:24:35 #kisslinux <sh4rm4^bnc> that's why i prefer python2, because it doesnt change on every release
2020-10-08T15:24:41 #kisslinux <dilyn> lol
2020-10-08T15:24:56 #kisslinux <dilyn> yeah i'm surprised this would happen this 'late'
2020-10-08T15:25:14 #kisslinux <sh4rm4^bnc> py3 is a moving target
2020-10-08T15:25:17 #kisslinux <dilyn> feels like this sort of change should've happened like... python 3.2
2020-10-08T15:25:21 #kisslinux <dilyn> oh well
2020-10-08T15:25:35 #kisslinux <sh4rm4^bnc> it's like rust, every new version is incompatible with the previous
2020-10-08T15:26:35 #kisslinux <sh4rm4^bnc> imo stability is much more important than features
2020-10-08T15:26:45 #kisslinux <dilyn> perhaps
2020-10-08T15:27:05 #kisslinux <dilyn> smart implementation i think would subsume stability
2020-10-08T15:27:17 #kisslinux <dilyn> and here we are; so what does that say about python devs...
2020-10-08T15:27:46 #kisslinux <sh4rm4^bnc> the main reason for windows success is backwards compat
2020-10-08T15:28:03 #kisslinux <sh4rm4^bnc> it's the holy grail
2020-10-08T15:28:18 #kisslinux <sh4rm4^bnc> you can even run 16bit dos apps on it
2020-10-08T15:29:07 #kisslinux <dilyn> Now that just sounds like the most spaghetti code
2020-10-08T15:29:31 #kisslinux <sh4rm4^bnc> perhaps, but users appreciate if they can run their legacy apps
2020-10-08T15:30:41 #kisslinux <dilyn> there's something to be said for legacy apps being able to run
2020-10-08T15:30:53 #kisslinux <dilyn> but I don't think we can call dos applications legacy
2020-10-08T15:31:03 #kisslinux <dilyn> that's more like... ancient egyptian programs at this point
2020-10-08T15:31:42 #kisslinux <sh4rm4^bnc> you'd be surprised what apps companies still run
2020-10-08T15:32:51 #kisslinux <dilyn> yeah my company still ships internet explorer and in fact two of the three webpages I use for work are inaccessible from chrome/edge
2020-10-08T15:32:54 #kisslinux <dilyn> It worries me
2020-10-08T15:33:10 #kisslinux <sh4rm4^bnc> cobol and fortran are still being developed, the corps can't afford to throw their 50 year old programs over board
2020-10-08T15:33:51 #kisslinux <sh4rm4^bnc> but in some cases their workflow involves programs they dont even have access to the sourcecode
2020-10-08T15:35:01 #kisslinux <sh4rm4^bnc> from this perspective it's utopian to think that python2 programs will just go away
2020-10-08T15:35:06 #kisslinux <dilyn> lol
2020-10-08T15:35:22 #kisslinux <dilyn> one day the big pushers will succeed and everything will become a webapp
2020-10-08T15:36:57 #kisslinux <sh4rm4^bnc> i'd really like to see a python2 conservancy foundation that keeps maintaining the py2 codebase
2020-10-08T15:37:19 #kisslinux <sh4rm4^bnc> this could even be a good business
2020-10-08T15:38:41 #kisslinux <dilyn> yeah i mean i bet the qt & mozilla foundation would love to pay money for that
2020-10-08T15:38:48 #kisslinux <dilyn> otherwise they'll have to keep doing it in-house
2020-10-08T15:38:50 #kisslinux <sh4rm4^bnc> you'd have some corporate sponsors and work there as CEO with a $10K monthly salary, and you'd just have to fix CVEs and make sure openssl support stays up2date
2020-10-08T17:11:29 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> E5ten: Thanks
2020-10-08T18:23:55 #kisslinux <dilyn> kiss v6 doesn't prompt to install packages after building when you build >1 package?
2020-10-08T18:24:41 #kisslinux <micr0> good news for those who miss docker: i didn't package docker, but I did manage to package podman (and two deps, runc and conmon)
2020-10-08T18:25:02 #kisslinux <micr0> its messy! it probably is missing some deps (for example, i had to install go-md2man manually instead of package it)
2020-10-08T18:25:12 #kisslinux <micr0> and I have no idea what might be broken, but its a start.
2020-10-08T19:15:06 #kisslinux <E5ten> dylanaraps: in pkg.c, you use strcspn to find the newline, but strcspn is slower than strchr, so imo just set some temporary char * to strchr and if it's non-NULL set it's dereferenced value to 0
2020-10-08T19:15:20 #kisslinux <E5ten> Its*