💾 Archived View for gemini.ctrl-c.club › ~phoebos › logs › freenode-kisslinux-2020-01-15.txt captured on 2024-05-26 at 16:27:57.
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2020-01-15T00:00:12 #kisslinux <E5ten> but the slide literally says they could work with it? 2020-01-15T00:00:23 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> Yeah 2020-01-15T00:00:32 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> It would've been slow probably. 2020-01-15T00:00:35 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> Else they would've 2020-01-15T00:00:48 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> EGLStreams would have cost money to design and implement. 2020-01-15T00:00:56 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> Makes no sense if GBM was fine and dandy 2020-01-15T00:01:29 #kisslinux <E5ten> oh well 2020-01-15T00:01:49 #kisslinux <E5ten> any other problems to list? 2020-01-15T00:02:14 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> The problem is really that you and me now have to deal with adding support NVidia 2020-01-15T00:02:27 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> And anyone else who wants to write a Wayland Compositor 2020-01-15T00:03:10 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> With Xorg, it's in there and we don't have to worry about it. 2020-01-15T00:03:14 #kisslinux <E5ten> or you could just write off a massive group of users and talk shit about them because you're a real cool guy who definitely isn't ddevault ;) 2020-01-15T00:03:22 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> Exactly 2020-01-15T00:03:25 #kisslinux <E5ten> clearly that's the option to go with 2020-01-15T00:03:29 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> No one wins this way 2020-01-15T00:03:48 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> And we have GNOME/KDE with the budget adding support for EGLSTREAMS 2020-01-15T00:04:08 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> So now we have NVIDIA compatible environments and non-nvidia ones 2020-01-15T00:04:33 #kisslinux <sirtomato> dylanaraps: what's that color program you use that prints out your pallete 2020-01-15T00:04:37 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> We have GNOME protocols and we have KDE protocols 2020-01-15T00:04:56 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> sirtomato: 2 secs 2020-01-15T00:05:17 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> Wayland will create lock-in into specific desktop environments. 2020-01-15T00:05:25 #kisslinux <E5ten> like honestly what even are the arguments in favour of wayland lmao 2020-01-15T00:05:34 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> "Xorg is old" 2020-01-15T00:05:36 #kisslinux <sirtomato> its the f u t u r e 2020-01-15T00:05:40 #kisslinux <E5ten> fun 2020-01-15T00:05:46 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> "Wayland is just a protocol" (I hate this one) 2020-01-15T00:05:58 #kisslinux <E5ten> oh god whenever I read that I want to die 2020-01-15T00:06:13 #kisslinux <sirtomato> but... but... xorg is a protocol :P 2020-01-15T00:06:15 #kisslinux <sirtomato> i think 2020-01-15T00:06:18 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> yes 2020-01-15T00:06:20 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> X11 is 2020-01-15T00:06:23 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> or am I wrong? 2020-01-15T00:06:28 #kisslinux <E5ten> I think it is 2020-01-15T00:06:32 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> lol 2020-01-15T00:06:58 #kisslinux <E5ten> so is their objection that like there exists only one implementation of the protocol (at least on linux) or something and realistically it'll stay that way? 2020-01-15T00:07:29 #kisslinux <E5ten> do implementations of the wayland protocol exist outside of the reference lib? 2020-01-15T00:07:45 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> The wayland protocol is too narrow and specifies nothing useful other than pushing shit to the screen 2020-01-15T00:08:03 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> So GNOME have their own protocols for screenshots etc which use dbus 2020-01-15T00:08:10 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> KDE have their own 2020-01-15T00:08:19 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> Sway have theirs 2020-01-15T00:08:22 #kisslinux <adamantium> dylanaraps: the udevadm --exit section of rc.boot kills udev when runsvdir was started beforehand via /etc/rc.d . runsvdir then restarts udev to the best i can tell. 2020-01-15T00:08:35 #kisslinux <adamantium> dylanaraps: I'm not sure if this bothers you or not, just FYI 2020-01-15T00:08:46 #kisslinux <E5ten> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wayland_(display_server_protocol)#Differences_between_Wayland_and_X I literally don't see a single advantage listed here? 2020-01-15T00:08:49 #kisslinux <lieuxnoir> hello 2020-01-15T00:08:53 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> adamantium: udev is killed post-boot and can be started as a real daemon using the service manager 2020-01-15T00:08:59 #kisslinux <E5ten> every single wayland part of that sounds worse than the xorg parts 2020-01-15T00:09:05 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> It is 2020-01-15T00:09:09 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> lel 2020-01-15T00:09:13 #kisslinux <sirtomato> dylanaraps: colors? (sorry) 2020-01-15T00:09:24 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> Sorry 2020-01-15T00:09:25 #kisslinux <lieuxnoir> what'd i miss? 2020-01-15T00:09:29 #kisslinux <adamantium> dylanaraps: I know that. But the udevadm --exit section of rc.boot kills udev when runsvdir was started beforehand via /etc/rc.d 2020-01-15T00:09:38 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> Ah 2020-01-15T00:09:41 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> I see 2020-01-15T00:09:44 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> I'll fix it. 2020-01-15T00:09:51 #kisslinux <E5ten> like there's the security bit but it follows that with saying that xorg extensions have made that situation a bit better on X, so wouldn't it make much more sense to sink time into improving xorg security? 2020-01-15T00:09:59 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> sirtomato: https://termbin.com/8pau 2020-01-15T00:10:07 #kisslinux <adamantium> dylanaraps: probably just move /etc/rc.d section to EOF 2020-01-15T00:10:10 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> Yup 2020-01-15T00:10:19 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> Security is pointless if you can't actually use your system. 2020-01-15T00:10:26 #kisslinux <sirtomato> thanks 2020-01-15T00:10:31 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> No more global hotkeys daemons etc. 2020-01-15T00:10:35 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> You don't have a choice either. 2020-01-15T00:10:57 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> It'd be different if wayland had some kind of permissions model. 2020-01-15T00:11:31 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> But no, no more hotkey daemon for you because security 2020-01-15T00:11:49 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> Reminder: Sway without logind has to be run as suid 2020-01-15T00:12:02 #kisslinux <adamantium> not even a clipboard for you sir 2020-01-15T00:12:38 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> Your clipboard manager better be compatible with your Wayland compositor of choice or :( 2020-01-15T00:13:00 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> Unless your clipboard manager adds support for the 10 protocols spread across each compositor 2020-01-15T00:13:01 #kisslinux <adamantium> keyboard remapping 2020-01-15T00:13:05 #kisslinux <adamantium> is harder in wayland i think 2020-01-15T00:13:18 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> Everything just gets baked into the compositor 2020-01-15T00:13:33 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> So now each compositor handles keys, screenshots, wallpaper, clipboard, etc 2020-01-15T00:13:47 #kisslinux <adamantium> monitor displays 2020-01-15T00:13:52 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> Remember when window managers just.... managed windows? 2020-01-15T00:14:00 #kisslinux <Aarg> I like my keys to be composited tbh 2020-01-15T00:14:10 #kisslinux <Shyiskhar> The more I learn about wayland, the less interested I am in wayland... 2020-01-15T00:14:18 #kisslinux <lieuxnoir> yeap 2020-01-15T00:14:27 #kisslinux <adamantium> they say they care so much about security 2020-01-15T00:14:28 #kisslinux <lieuxnoir> chat looks better on larger text 2020-01-15T00:14:38 #kisslinux <adamantium> and they are all using dbus, polkit and other crazy shit 2020-01-15T00:14:51 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> The end game is that we have closed desktops like Windows / MacOS 2020-01-15T00:14:52 #kisslinux <adamantium> but safe because wayland 2020-01-15T00:15:06 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> Watch as GNOME programs will only run on GNOME 2020-01-15T00:15:26 #kisslinux <adamantium> it would be an issue if gnome programs were good 2020-01-15T00:15:30 #kisslinux <konimex> something something "security work was still just masturbation" 2020-01-15T00:16:18 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> Read: https://igurublog.wordpress.com/2012/11/05/gnome-et-al-rotting-in-threes/ 2020-01-15T00:16:45 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> "I guess you have to decide if you are a GNOME app, an Ubuntu app, or an XFCE app" 2020-01-15T00:17:26 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> "I think one of the most important cases against applets (as they are currently defined in GNOME) is that they are extremely detrimental to the Identity of the product or platform." 2020-01-15T00:17:40 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> "So, one of the many very exciting things about GNOME Shell is that for the first time we may have ability to really shape the user experience and form an identity for the GNOME platform." 2020-01-15T00:18:24 #kisslinux <Shyiskhar> Gah. This is why I detest GNOME. They have always had that "We know what people want, even if people don't want it" point of view. 2020-01-15T00:18:43 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> "We’ve always argued that if it is anything, GNOME is a UX. There might be a case for letting people tweak things here and there, but I really think that every GNOME install should have the same core look and feel. Otherwise, what is it that we are doing in the first place? " 2020-01-15T00:18:48 #kisslinux <Shyiskhar> They can keep it. It's a freaking horrible user experience. 2020-01-15T00:19:09 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> "Facilitating the unrestricted use of extensions and themes by end users seems contrary to the central tenets of the GNOME 3 design." 2020-01-15T00:20:01 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> Wayland allows this dream to come true *by design*. 2020-01-15T00:21:10 #kisslinux <Shyiskhar> Meh. I'll stick to X. If they get too crazy with it I'll just use ncurses for everything... Only thing I use X for most of the time is my web browser. And Factorio. 2020-01-15T00:21:22 #kisslinux <Shyiskhar> 'cos you know. The factory must grow. 2020-01-15T00:23:15 #kisslinux <lieuxnoir> today's todo: kernel-hopping 2020-01-15T00:24:15 #kisslinux <adamantium> do we need to add users to the audio group? it only says input and video in the wiki 2020-01-15T00:24:28 #kisslinux <adamantium> s/wiki/install guide/g 2020-01-15T00:24:33 #kisslinux <lieuxnoir> i guess it's needed for alsa to work 2020-01-15T00:24:38 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> Ah 2020-01-15T00:24:39 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> My bad 2020-01-15T00:24:44 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> I'll fix this too. 2020-01-15T00:24:47 #kisslinux <adamantium> :) 2020-01-15T00:24:50 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> See: https://github.com/swaywm/wlroots/tree/master/protocol 2020-01-15T00:25:04 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> All of the wlr-* files are wlroots specific extensions to the Wayland protocol. 2020-01-15T00:25:18 #kisslinux <adamantium> ncurses for everything is possible if you build mpv with support for video on the tty 2020-01-15T00:25:25 #kisslinux <adamantium> it's actually not a bad setup for vimmers 2020-01-15T00:26:00 #kisslinux <adamantium> i used to do that on gentoo 2020-01-15T00:26:19 #kisslinux <adamantium> streaming hd youtube and stuff with mpv/youtube-dl right on to the tty 2020-01-15T00:26:52 #kisslinux <adamantium> Emacs is more annoying without X because it uses a lot of modifiers 2020-01-15T00:27:11 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> See here for the GNOME extensions to wayland: https://gitlab.gnome.org/GNOME/gnome-shell/tree/master/data 2020-01-15T00:30:46 #kisslinux <adamantium> dylanaraps: is it possible for us to use https://wiki.gentoo.org/wiki/CPU_FLAGS_X86 2020-01-15T00:30:57 #kisslinux <adamantium> e.g. CPU_FLAGS_X86="mmx mmxext sse sse2 sse3" 2020-01-15T00:31:04 #kisslinux <adamantium> like gentoo ricers do 2020-01-15T00:31:48 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> How does that work underneath? 2020-01-15T00:31:52 #kisslinux <adamantium> IDK 2020-01-15T00:32:02 #kisslinux <adamantium> https://github.com/mgorny/cpuid2cpuflags this program you run, it tells you what flags are safe for setting 2020-01-15T00:32:10 #kisslinux <adamantium> i could package it 2020-01-15T00:32:17 #kisslinux <adamantium> but need to know this type of stuff is supported 2020-01-15T00:32:22 #kisslinux <Aarg> most of them get enabled by march=native automatically afaik 2020-01-15T00:32:33 #kisslinux <adamantium> i don't think so 2020-01-15T00:32:40 #kisslinux <adamantium> this is in addition to native 2020-01-15T00:32:55 #kisslinux <adamantium> Well you could be right, but i know people do this in addition to it 2020-01-15T00:33:04 #kisslinux <Aarg> I know, I used gentoo for a long time 2020-01-15T00:34:16 #kisslinux <Aarg> march=native might not enable all the cpu features tho 2020-01-15T00:34:27 #kisslinux <Aarg> that's when that variable comes in handy 2020-01-15T00:36:15 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> KDE seems to not have their protocol extensions anywhere lol 2020-01-15T00:37:04 #kisslinux <Aarg> adamantium: https://wiki.gentoo.org/wiki/GCC_optimization#-msse.2C_-msse2.2C_-msse3.2C_-mmmx.2C_-m3dnow 2020-01-15T00:38:06 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> https://blogs.gnome.org/uraeus/2019/06/24/on-the-road-to-fedora-workstation-31/ 2020-01-15T00:38:14 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> > Once we are done with this we expect X.org to go into hard maintenance mode fairly quickly. The reality is that X.org is basically maintained by us 2020-01-15T00:38:22 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> > and thus once we stop paying attention to it there is unlikely to be any major new releases coming out and there might even be some bitrot setting in over time. 2020-01-15T00:38:31 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> > We will keep an eye on it as we will want to ensure X.org stays supportable until the end of the RHEL8 lifecycle at a minimum, but let this be a friendly notice for everyone who rely the work we do maintaining the Linux graphics stack, get onto Wayland, that is where the future is. 2020-01-15T00:38:43 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> We have until 2029 (RHEL8) 2020-01-15T00:45:20 #kisslinux <sirtomato> recompiling firefox because firefox-bin crashes too much 2020-01-15T00:45:28 #kisslinux <sirtomato> and last time it took 40 minutes 2020-01-15T00:45:32 #kisslinux <sirtomato> but not -j4 2020-01-15T00:45:37 #kisslinux <sirtomato> so idk 2020-01-15T00:46:25 #kisslinux <konimex> crashes too much but no logs yet 2020-01-15T00:50:56 #kisslinux <adamantium> wayland wouldn't be too bad if they had a better window manager than i3 2020-01-15T00:51:02 #kisslinux <adamantium> can't stand that wm 2020-01-15T00:53:23 #kisslinux <sirtomato> just use gnome smh 2020-01-15T00:53:30 #kisslinux <sirtomato> can't believe you could be that dumb 2020-01-15T00:53:31 #kisslinux <sirtomato> gee 2020-01-15T00:58:39 #kisslinux <Shyiskhar> I can't realistically use sway, 'cos Mr. Devault is mean to my nvidia driver... I could use it on KISS I guess since I'm just using nouveau... But I'm opinionated now. 2020-01-15T00:59:59 #kisslinux <E5ten> god there really are few things that piss me off more than that blog post 2020-01-15T01:00:08 #kisslinux <sirtomato> link? 2020-01-15T01:00:42 #kisslinux <E5ten> https://drewdevault.com/2017/10/26/Fuck-you-nvidia.html 2020-01-15T01:03:18 #kisslinux <Shyiskhar> He seems like a funny guy for the most part, and he does a LOT of stuff, but man. He has views. 2020-01-15T01:06:44 #kisslinux <Shyiskhar> The thing is, he's not wrong. Nvidia are assholes, but I don't think it's fair to attack users for not KNOWING that they were assholes prior to purchase, especially since the only real alternative choice for wayland is GNOME, and apparently as shit as it is, we're all gonna be sucking up to wayland in the future either way... 2020-01-15T01:09:00 #kisslinux <Shyiskhar> I still wouldn't know they were assholes if I hadn't tried installing the proprietary drivers on alpine... Not a heap of fun. 2020-01-15T01:14:04 #kisslinux <adamantium> in 2029 we might be using another kernel entirely 2020-01-15T01:14:15 #kisslinux <adamantium> i dont plan to be linuxing at least 2020-01-15T01:14:27 #kisslinux <adamantium> the direction linux is going does not give me reassurance 2020-01-15T01:15:50 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> One more and then bed: The core Wayland protocol does not define a mechanism for taking screenshots. Here’s another thing it doesn’t define: how to open application windows, like gedit and Firefox. 2020-01-15T01:16:07 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> https://drewdevault.com/2019/02/10/Wayland-misconceptions-debunked.html 2020-01-15T01:16:32 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> Application windows are a protocol extension 2020-01-15T01:17:14 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> OK. Bed for me. 3am and my cat watch is over 2020-01-15T01:17:15 #kisslinux <mforney> dylanaraps: "Compositing is forced. I don't like compositors personally" <- Xorg *is* a compositor, even if you don't run an external compositing manager. the compositor is the thing that composes all your application windows to a single buffer, to scan out to your display 2020-01-15T01:18:07 #kisslinux <Shyiskhar> Night! Get some rest. Life's too short for computing at 3am. 2020-01-15T01:18:37 #kisslinux <E5ten> I thought a compositor puts stuff in an offscreen buffer to apply effects and get rid of tearing because of the second buffer, does X do that? 2020-01-15T01:23:22 #kisslinux <mforney> doesn't Xorg have TearFree options? 2020-01-15T01:24:34 #kisslinux <mforney> and with the X11 present extension, you can the server to present your off-screen pixmap to your window 2020-01-15T01:25:25 #kisslinux <E5ten> I don't think DDX drivers doing stuff with offscreen buffers is quite the same as a compositor 2020-01-15T01:25:51 #kisslinux <E5ten> also note your use of "option" 2020-01-15T01:27:00 #kisslinux <mforney> at the end of the day, *something* has to compose your application buffers into a single frame to scan out to your display 2020-01-15T01:28:11 #kisslinux <mforney> any accelerated graphics (opengl, vulkan) is rendered to off-screen buffers, and Xorg has to combine those into a single image 2020-01-15T01:33:04 #kisslinux <E5ten> I feel like you're not using the correct definition of compositor then 2020-01-15T01:33:38 #kisslinux <E5ten> because I have never heard of X itself described as a compositor, and I have seen distinctions drawn between WMs that have compositors (like kwin) and those that don't (like openbox) 2020-01-15T01:36:45 #kisslinux <mforney> if X isn't a compositor, then why are wayland display servers described as compositors? what's the fundamental difference there? 2020-01-15T01:37:39 #kisslinux <mforney> the distinction between kwin and openbox, is kwin uses the X composite extension to manage window compositing itself (rather than have Xorg do it) so it can apply effects and stuff. openbox just uses Xorg as the compositor 2020-01-15T01:38:44 #kisslinux <mforney> so kwin *is* a compositor and window manager, while openbox is just a window manager 2020-01-15T01:41:57 #kisslinux <mforney> i guess the wikipedia article says "A compositing window manager, or compositor, is a window manager that provides applications with an off-screen buffer for each window. The window manager composites the window buffers into an image representing the screen and writes the result into the display memory.", so if compositor == compositing window manager, than i guess Xorg doesn't qualify, since it 2020-01-15T01:42:00 #kisslinux <mforney> only composes windows, but doesn't have a built-in window manager 2020-01-15T01:49:29 #kisslinux <E5ten> but the word in question here isn't even compose, it's composite, "Compositing is the combining of visual elements from separate sources into single images, often to create the illusion that all those elements are parts of the same scene." 2020-01-15T01:49:57 #kisslinux <E5ten> single windows are one source, so by definition composing a single window isn't compositing 2020-01-15T01:50:40 #kisslinux <E5ten> from what I can gather, a compositor combines all the sources in an offscreen buffer, and displays them, which is entirely optional in X, but mandatory in wayland 2020-01-15T01:51:52 #kisslinux <mforney> but Xorg *does* combine the visual elements of separate sources (off-screen application buffers) into a single images (the final buffer scanned out to your display) 2020-01-15T01:52:41 #kisslinux <E5ten> well I assume that combining is not done in an offscreen buffer 2020-01-15T01:55:16 #kisslinux <mforney> the use of "off-screen" in all definitions i can find is referring to the application buffers, not the result 2020-01-15T01:57:50 #kisslinux <E5ten> "The window manager composites the window buffers into an image representing the screen and writes the result into the display memory." 2020-01-15T01:57:58 #kisslinux <E5ten> from the wikipedia page 2020-01-15T01:59:41 #kisslinux <mforney> how would you describe what Xorg does differently? 2020-01-15T02:00:15 #kisslinux <E5ten> well from what I can tell it seems like the combination of the windows happens directly on screen and not in a separate buffer? 2020-01-15T02:04:51 #kisslinux <mforney> i wouldn't say that quote implies that the result is first stored in separate memory before copying to display memory, but that's just my interpretation 2020-01-15T02:07:44 #kisslinux <E5ten> I mean I guess the implication of a compositing window manager compositing all the windows into a single image together beforehand and then writing that to the display is that a non-compositing window manager doesn't do that, so maybe it's that a non-compositing WM writes windows directly instead of putting them all together first? 2020-01-15T02:10:41 #kisslinux <adamantium> Aarg you were correct about -march=native applying all the extra cpu flag stuff. I verified it on my machine by checking gcc -march=native -E -v - </dev/null 2>&1 | grep cc1 and comparing it with the flags listed with cat /proc/cpuinfo 2020-01-15T02:13:17 #kisslinux <Aarg> ah, good to know 2020-01-15T02:15:07 #kisslinux <Aarg> I should compare mine too at some point 2020-01-15T02:15:17 #kisslinux <Aarg> but bedtime for now, gn everybody 2020-01-15T02:21:07 #kisslinux <mforney> i guess in common usage for X11, "compositor" means "compositing window manager", but i think a better definition is "software that composites individual application buffers together", as opposed to a display server that allows applications to perform drawing operations directly to the screen (like the original X11 model with no direct rendering) 2020-01-15T02:21:33 #kisslinux <mforney> i think a better way to describe the distinction you mentioned is "single-buffering" or "double-buffering" 2020-01-15T02:21:44 #kisslinux <mforney> anyway, thanks for the discussion :) 2020-01-15T02:23:08 #kisslinux <E5ten> compositor doesn't mean compositing window manager in X11 though 2020-01-15T02:23:36 #kisslinux <E5ten> people don't call kwin a compositor in the context of X11, it's a compositing window manager 2020-01-15T02:23:49 #kisslinux <mforney> oh, right, i guess there are compositing managers that can work separately from the window manager 2020-01-15T02:23:55 #kisslinux <E5ten> compton, xcompmgr, etc. are compositors 2020-01-15T02:25:08 #kisslinux <E5ten> wayland's definition of compositor is the weird one for sure, in X11 a compositor is a compositor, and a WM that composites is a compositing WM, it makes no sense that wayland calls their (mandatorily) compositing WMs compositors 2020-01-15T02:27:14 #kisslinux <adamantium> mforney: do you use both kiss and oasis, I'm curious? 2020-01-15T02:28:57 #kisslinux <mforney> i don't think it's weird. the difference is that wayland requires the use of an off-screen buffer for applications (it has no drawing requests), while X11 includes rendering requests like FillRectangle, that don't necessarily imply composition. but with DRI, the application buffers *are* separate from the screen buffer, and that's why i argue that Xorg is also a compositor 2020-01-15T02:30:50 #kisslinux <mforney> adamantium: i don't use kiss, but i think it does a lot of things right. i just like to follow and learn from what others are doing 2020-01-15T02:31:20 #kisslinux <adamantium> cool! 2020-01-15T02:31:27 #kisslinux <tooeasy2do> I am rigth now trying to read to see if i shoudl switch 2020-01-15T02:31:34 #kisslinux <tooeasy2do> but kinda scared 2020-01-15T02:32:03 #kisslinux <adamantium> mforney: i would love to try oasis but not having a stage3 is just so different I literally just __dont_get_it__ (the install process) 2020-01-15T02:32:16 #kisslinux <adamantium> I might be just unable to learn new things ¯_(ツ)_/¯ 2020-01-15T02:32:32 #kisslinux <tooeasy2do> Oasis? 2020-01-15T02:32:54 #kisslinux <tooeasy2do> What is that? 2020-01-15T02:32:55 #kisslinux <adamantium> Oasis is mforney's distro 2020-01-15T02:33:20 #kisslinux <tooeasy2do> I am new sorry just got here lol 2020-01-15T02:33:25 #kisslinux <adamantium> hi tooeasy2do 2020-01-15T02:34:16 #kisslinux <tooeasy2do> So sorry if this is not the place guys but how is kiss working for you? 2020-01-15T02:34:38 #kisslinux <adamantium> you're fine. working well! 2020-01-15T02:34:46 #kisslinux <adamantium> any specific questions? 2020-01-15T02:35:16 #kisslinux <tooeasy2do> Yeah, are there any packages or programs that you cannot get runing on it 2020-01-15T02:35:28 #kisslinux <konimex> depends 2020-01-15T02:35:31 #kisslinux <konimex> what do you want to run? 2020-01-15T02:36:11 #kisslinux <adamantium> While having fewer pkgs available, it is by far the easiest distro in existence to create a package or an overlay yourself, making up for it 2020-01-15T02:37:06 #kisslinux <tooeasy2do> So there are 3 things i do on this pc i program, i game(steam, league of legends trough lutris) and i use slack and zoom 2020-01-15T02:37:08 #kisslinux <adamantium> Things that require dbus take work in patching the source code to remove that depenedency, though-- and that means we don't use a lot of stuff that some people take for granted. 2020-01-15T02:38:25 #kisslinux <adamantium> we dont have steam 2020-01-15T02:39:19 #kisslinux <adamantium> programming would be no problem, but again i think most of us are vim and Emacs here, you might have to package your own editor if it's not here 2020-01-15T02:39:50 #kisslinux <tooeasy2do> Oh no, I am vim user till death lol 2020-01-15T02:40:09 #kisslinux <tooeasy2do> There is no way fro steam to work then? 2020-01-15T02:40:13 #kisslinux <tooeasy2do> CAn i know the reason? 2020-01-15T02:40:17 #kisslinux <adamantium> ifk 2020-01-15T02:40:18 #kisslinux <adamantium> idk 2020-01-15T02:40:20 #kisslinux <adamantium> Let's see... 2020-01-15T02:40:43 #kisslinux <konimex> tooeasy2do: you can run it from a chroot 2020-01-15T02:40:46 #kisslinux <konimex> iirc dylan does it 2020-01-15T02:41:00 #kisslinux <adamantium> 1. it 2020-01-15T02:41:17 #kisslinux <adamantium> 1. it's non free. so it wont be in the official repos here. but again, overlays are super easy 2020-01-15T02:41:17 #kisslinux <tooeasy2do> Wait you i know waht is chroot but how? 2020-01-15T02:41:34 #kisslinux <tooeasy2do> overlays 2020-01-15T02:41:36 #kisslinux <tooeasy2do> ? 2020-01-15T02:41:39 #kisslinux <konimex> the reason steam can't run on vanilla KISS primarily is glibc 2020-01-15T02:41:51 #kisslinux <tooeasy2do> sorry for not understanding that much :( 2020-01-15T02:42:02 #kisslinux <tooeasy2do> SO what are overlays? 2020-01-15T02:42:06 #kisslinux <konimex> we all have to start from somewhere 2020-01-15T02:42:30 #kisslinux <tooeasy2do> I know my stuff is just that i am new to stuff out of my arch install lol 2020-01-15T02:42:39 #kisslinux <konimex> tooeasy2do: re, chroot: https://wiki.voidlinux.org/Musl#glibc_chroot 2020-01-15T02:42:44 #kisslinux <konimex> s/re,/re/ 2020-01-15T02:42:59 #kisslinux <adamantium> here people are talking about using steam in glibc chroot 2020-01-15T02:43:00 #kisslinux <adamantium> https://www.reddit.com/r/voidlinux/comments/b4rspn/steam_on_musl/ 2020-01-15T02:43:09 #kisslinux <adamantium> looks doable and fun to me 2020-01-15T02:43:27 #kisslinux <adamantium> i'd like to have a little portable gaming ubuntu chroot or something on my kiss box! 2020-01-15T02:44:57 #kisslinux <tooeasy2do> They also say that steam is on faltpacks i can guess that flatpacks are not default 2020-01-15T02:45:08 #kisslinux <tooeasy2do> Is it easy to isntall? 2020-01-15T02:45:12 #kisslinux <adamantium> flatpak just guessing probably requires dbus 2020-01-15T02:45:25 #kisslinux <adamantium> tooeasy2do: it's the same as installing gentoo, but less complicated than gentoo 2020-01-15T02:45:49 #kisslinux <adamantium> you will start with a stage3 and compile a kernel, install a bootloader, configure some text files and reboot into it 2020-01-15T02:46:56 #kisslinux <konimex> tooeasy2do: no one has packaged flatpak successfully yet 2020-01-15T02:49:25 #kisslinux <adamantium> you can use nixpkgs though without issue 2020-01-15T02:49:31 #kisslinux <adamantium> i've been doing it for quite some time now 2020-01-15T02:54:43 #kisslinux <tooeasy2do> So no Steam i can live with that, now is lutris an option here? 2020-01-15T02:54:55 #kisslinux <tooeasy2do> and also how many languages are on the packages for default 2020-01-15T03:00:52 #kisslinux <adamantium> you can look at the git repos 2020-01-15T03:01:23 #kisslinux <tooeasy2do> Lustris github right? 2020-01-15T03:01:35 #kisslinux <adamantium> https://github.com/kisslinux/community/tree/master/community 2020-01-15T03:01:58 #kisslinux <tooeasy2do> Oh nice 2020-01-15T03:02:02 #kisslinux <adamantium> and official 2020-01-15T03:02:02 #kisslinux <adamantium> https://github.com/kisslinux/repo 2020-01-15T03:02:12 #kisslinux <adamantium> you can see all of our pkgs 2020-01-15T03:02:46 #kisslinux <adamantium> and look at some build files of things you're interested, you'll see it's only 4 or 5 text files for most of them, very simple to create your own packages, no magic needed 2020-01-15T03:03:10 #kisslinux <tooeasy2do> I was going to ask that right now lol, that sounds very nive 2020-01-15T03:03:10 #kisslinux <konimex> lutris isn't packaged yet, but if it's free software it probably can be used with kiss 2020-01-15T03:04:46 #kisslinux <tooeasy2do> Mju this kinda sounds like is going to be my next distro... 2020-01-15T03:04:56 #kisslinux <tooeasy2do> IS it too hard to install compared to arch linux? 2020-01-15T03:24:28 #kisslinux <konimex> see https://getkiss.org/pages/install/ 2020-01-15T03:40:44 #kisslinux <Shyiskhar> It's easier than arch except for the need to compile your own kernel, which isn't really HARD, just time consuming, and error prone. 2020-01-15T03:41:08 #kisslinux <Shyiskhar> At least, that's been my experience. 2020-01-15T03:41:14 #kisslinux <adamantium> ++ 2020-01-15T03:43:23 #kisslinux <Shyiskhar> In fairness, I had that same experience with gentoo, only it took three days to install as opposed to the few hours to get kiss up and running. 2020-01-15T03:44:06 #kisslinux <adamantium> it varys depending on what your hardware is and how well you know your hardware 2020-01-15T03:44:38 #kisslinux <adamantium> if you don't know jack about your hardware and what drivers it needs you might get lucky or you might be trying for days to get your wifi/audio/video working properly 2020-01-15T03:47:39 #kisslinux <Shyiskhar> Yeah, Gentoo was my first compile my own kernel experience, and it went pretty ugly. Although it wasn't what took so long, that was compiling @world and firefox mostly... 2020-01-15T06:43:49 #kisslinux <lieuxno1> damn 2020-01-15T06:43:55 #kisslinux <lieuxno1> `lieuxnoir` is registered 2020-01-15T06:59:26 #kisslinux <icyphox> just /msg nickserv identify lieuxnoir <pass> 2020-01-15T06:59:37 #kisslinux <icyphox> that's your nick right 2020-01-15T07:09:51 #kisslinux <lieuxno1> yep 2020-01-15T07:10:06 #kisslinux <lieuxno1> i did not registered for an irc acc 2020-01-15T07:11:13 #kisslinux <adamantium> lol 2020-01-15T07:13:46 #kisslinux <lieuxno1> s/ed// 2020-01-15T07:14:49 #kisslinux <lieuxnoir> ahh lol 2020-01-15T07:15:04 #kisslinux <lieuxnoir> i forgot 2020-01-15T07:15:21 #kisslinux <lieuxnoir> i opened another instance of irc here in my other computer 2020-01-15T07:40:30 #kisslinux <lieuxno1> coo 2020-01-15T07:40:42 #kisslinux <lieuxno1> I can have this one then? 2020-01-15T07:45:21 #kisslinux <lieuxno1> lieuxnoir: 2020-01-15T07:47:08 #kisslinux <lieuxnoir> lol okay 2020-01-15T07:47:23 #kisslinux <lieuxnoir> but why tho 2020-01-15T07:47:47 #kisslinux <lieuxno1> just bored 2020-01-15T08:10:59 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> ello 2020-01-15T08:15:05 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> For those with Firefox crashes on same sites: https://github.com/kisslinux/repo/issues/136#issuecomment-574545319 2020-01-15T08:19:30 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> I may have found a "fix" 2020-01-15T08:20:31 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> OK, two possible solutions/workarounds in the link I just sent. 2020-01-15T08:20:47 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> (The cat is still OK btw) 2020-01-15T08:34:41 #kisslinux <icyphox> dylanaraps: Yo. So I built aerc in a chroot, and it works fine. 2020-01-15T08:34:49 #kisslinux <icyphox> I think something's borked on my host system. 2020-01-15T08:35:08 #kisslinux <icyphox> I doing a fully sys upgrade to see if that changes anything. 2020-01-15T08:35:15 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> Ah 2020-01-15T08:35:27 #kisslinux <icyphox> So, I'll send a PR for it then? 2020-01-15T08:35:32 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> Will help you figure out why in a sec. 2020-01-15T08:35:42 #kisslinux <icyphox> No hurry. 2020-01-15T08:35:42 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> Send it now if you like as I can confirm it works for me. 2020-01-15T08:35:50 #kisslinux <icyphox> Great. I'll do that. 2020-01-15T08:39:52 #kisslinux <dzove855> dylanaraps: i will try the firefox fix tonight. I had the same problem yesterday 2020-01-15T08:50:55 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> Back 2020-01-15T08:52:05 #kisslinux <icyphox> w 2020-01-15T08:52:07 #kisslinux <icyphox> wb* 2020-01-15T08:53:05 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> Does aerc require Python during runtime at all? I read about this yesterday 2020-01-15T08:53:37 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> Your PR looks good otherwise 2020-01-15T08:54:20 #kisslinux <icyphox> Hm. I don't think so? 2020-01-15T08:54:26 #kisslinux <icyphox> Where did you see that? 2020-01-15T08:54:45 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> https://github.com/jorgicio/jorgicio-gentoo-overlay/issues/171 2020-01-15T08:54:57 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> https://github.com/jorgicio/jorgicio-gentoo-overlay/commit/92dc63ff6bba759fab1ad7a447077b300a324941 2020-01-15T08:55:23 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> > 2020-01-15T08:55:23 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> Package maintainers: the filters have been rewritten in awk, dropping 2020-01-15T08:55:23 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> the Python dependencies. w3m and dante are both still required for HTML 2020-01-15T08:55:23 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> email, but the HTML filter has been commented out in the default config 2020-01-15T08:55:24 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> file. 2020-01-15T08:55:28 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> https://lists.sr.ht/~sircmpwn/aerc-announce/%3CBVVZUNEKQFE2.HQ0LK8VY88O7%40homura%3E 2020-01-15T08:55:37 #kisslinux <icyphox> Oh yeah. 2020-01-15T08:55:41 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> OK. So Python is still needed for HTML 2020-01-15T08:55:48 #kisslinux <icyphox> The HTML filter is commented out by default. 2020-01-15T08:55:51 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> Yup 2020-01-15T08:55:55 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> This is fine then. 2020-01-15T08:55:59 #kisslinux <icyphox> So not a direct dependency. But an optional one. 2020-01-15T08:56:01 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> Will merge your PR 2020-01-15T08:56:10 #kisslinux <icyphox> Great. Thanks. 2020-01-15T08:56:37 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> Now, let me install it and we can confirm things between our installs. 2020-01-15T08:57:38 #kisslinux <icyphox> Sure. 2020-01-15T08:57:52 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> Try 'rm -rf ~/.config/aerc/' 2020-01-15T08:58:03 #kisslinux <icyphox> Side note: any reason you don't squash and merge? It makes the tree look cleaner :P 2020-01-15T08:58:13 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> Oh 2020-01-15T08:58:22 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> I had it set to squash and merge 2020-01-15T08:58:34 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> Did GitHub reset it? :( 2020-01-15T08:58:42 #kisslinux <icyphox> Oh! Yes. It's '~/.config/aerc' that was the culprit. 2020-01-15T08:58:50 #kisslinux <icyphox> Fixed. 2020-01-15T08:58:52 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> Heh 2020-01-15T08:59:30 #kisslinux <icyphox> Yeah, I think GitHub reset it. I always check before I click bcs I don't trust GitHub lol. 2020-01-15T08:59:52 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> Seems to have been reset two weeks ago 2020-01-15T08:59:53 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> https://github.com/kisslinux/community/commit/05b6a6804a174ab804becafd09c94c97190d6ca5 2020-01-15T08:59:57 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> Grrr 2020-01-15T09:00:29 #kisslinux <icyphox> Hah 2020-01-15T09:02:53 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> What is up with all of these newfangled replacements for all programs embedding terminal emulators? 2020-01-15T09:03:11 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> Neovim and aerc come to mind 2020-01-15T09:04:00 #kisslinux <icyphox> lol 2020-01-15T09:04:07 #kisslinux <icyphox> I don't understand either. 2020-01-15T09:04:15 #kisslinux <icyphox> Entirely unnecessary. 2020-01-15T09:04:27 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> Yup 2020-01-15T09:04:36 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> And 2020-01-15T09:04:54 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> When you run in tmux you're actually running inside another terminal emulator. 2020-01-15T09:05:19 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> Example: xterm -> tmux (term) -> neovim (term) -> aerc (term) -> echo hi 2020-01-15T09:05:29 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> This is sane apparently 2020-01-15T09:06:08 #kisslinux <icyphox> lol 2020-01-15T09:06:15 #kisslinux <icyphox> Sigh. 2020-01-15T09:07:58 #kisslinux <icyphox> dylanaraps: Package dependencies are built from community as well right? 2020-01-15T09:08:14 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> Yes 2020-01-15T09:08:27 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> It is no different to the official repositories in its function 2020-01-15T09:08:36 #kisslinux <icyphox> Alright. 2020-01-15T09:08:40 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> So long as you have community in your KISS_PATH 2020-01-15T09:09:22 #kisslinux <icyphox> BTW, I'm getting a checksum mismatch for the latest linux-headers. 2020-01-15T09:09:43 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> Ah 2020-01-15T09:10:09 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> Try 'rm ~/.cache/kiss/source/linux-headers/linux-4.19.95.tar.xz' 2020-01-15T09:10:17 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> Btw, this means one of two things. 2020-01-15T09:10:33 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> 1) I forgot to run 'kiss c pkg'. 2020-01-15T09:10:56 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> 2) I ran 'kiss c pkg' and your download didn't finish properly. 2020-01-15T09:10:59 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> Actually 3) 2020-01-15T09:11:11 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> 3) (rare) The source has been changed 2020-01-15T09:11:24 #kisslinux <icyphox> Hm. 2020-01-15T09:11:29 #kisslinux <icyphox> Okay, I'll try that. 2020-01-15T09:11:43 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> 1 and 2 are *fine* but 3 is where the checksum system guards you 2020-01-15T09:12:06 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> It's a good thing if it is 3 as you then know that what you were going to build doesn't match what I built 2020-01-15T09:12:17 #kisslinux <icyphox> Works. 2020-01-15T09:12:19 #kisslinux <icyphox> Thanks. 2020-01-15T09:12:21 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> :) 2020-01-15T09:12:46 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> Basically, try deleting the source if it happens again (with any package) 2020-01-15T09:12:57 #kisslinux <icyphox> Yep 2020-01-15T09:12:58 #kisslinux <icyphox> :) 2020-01-15T09:13:01 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> If you still get a checksum error, chances are I forgot to update the checksums 2020-01-15T09:13:30 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> Contact me and I'll fix it 2020-01-15T09:13:48 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> Then we can also figure out if it is #3 (never happened before) 2020-01-15T09:14:43 #kisslinux <icyphox> Ah. 2020-01-15T09:14:55 #kisslinux <icyphox> Well a borked download will result in 3 right? 2020-01-15T09:15:15 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> A borked download results in #2 2020-01-15T09:15:20 #kisslinux <icyphox> Oh, that's 2. 2020-01-15T09:15:28 #kisslinux <icyphox> Yeah. Gotcha. 2020-01-15T09:19:01 #kisslinux <icyphox> goddammit 2020-01-15T09:19:13 #kisslinux <icyphox> st keeps crashing when someone sends certain emoji. 2020-01-15T09:19:15 #kisslinux <icyphox> lol 2020-01-15T09:19:31 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> lol 2020-01-15T09:19:34 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> Ah 2020-01-15T09:19:38 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> Do you have an emoji font? 2020-01-15T09:20:11 #kisslinux <icyphox> Don't think so. 2020-01-15T09:20:25 #kisslinux <icyphox> st can just /not/ display the char lol. Why crash. 2020-01-15T09:20:43 #kisslinux <icyphox> Oh I have all of noto-fonts. 2020-01-15T09:20:49 #kisslinux <icyphox> 1.1gb 2020-01-15T09:21:02 #kisslinux <icyphox> That should suffice, right? 2020-01-15T09:22:02 #kisslinux <icyphox> Solved it. Left the channel where the emoji was sent. 2020-01-15T09:22:04 #kisslinux <icyphox> lol 2020-01-15T09:22:16 #kisslinux <icyphox> ZNC kept playing it back each time. 2020-01-15T09:26:06 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> lol 2020-01-15T09:46:41 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> brb 2020-01-15T11:37:16 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> Cat update: He went outside and sat in the sun 2020-01-15T11:37:56 #kisslinux <icyphox> YAY! 2020-01-15T12:00:08 #kisslinux <Aarg[m]> Awesome 2020-01-15T12:18:38 #kisslinux <dzove855> awesome 2020-01-15T12:30:18 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> Reminder to anyone having Firefox crashes to try the possible fixes in this issue: https://github.com/kisslinux/repo/issues/136#issuecomment-574545319 2020-01-15T12:30:43 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> Also to send me logs of the crash: https://github.com/kisslinux/repo/issues/136#issuecomment-574407398 2020-01-15T13:03:04 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> I'm building a new Firefox-bin, we'll see if this fixes the issue. 2020-01-15T13:11:52 #kisslinux <icyphox> dylanaraps: Still not squashing commits lol 2020-01-15T13:12:18 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> Oh oops 2020-01-15T13:12:27 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> I forgot to set it after we talked abou it 2020-01-15T13:12:53 #kisslinux <icyphox> Haha 2020-01-15T13:25:45 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> -> kiss l | wc -l 2020-01-15T13:25:45 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> 129 2020-01-15T13:25:47 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> nice 2020-01-15T13:25:52 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> Thanks firefox-bin 2020-01-15T13:26:35 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> brb 2020-01-15T13:48:08 #kisslinux <paradigm> lieuxnoir: I've tested basic KISS stuff with Bedrock a ways back. Everything I tried worked fine. One thing I did not test is KISS's init with Bedrock. There's a known issue with Bedrock's interaction with Slackware's and CRUX's init which results in freezing on shutdown. That might hit KISS as well. Or it might not. If you have a KISS VM on hand, it's probably worth a quick test. 2020-01-15T13:48:14 #kisslinux <paradigm> lieuxnoir: If it does replicate on KISS, an easy work around for now is to just use another distro's init (e.g. Alpine's OpenRC or Void's Runit). From a Bedrock perspective requiring that is disappointing and not intended to be the long term solution. I hope to fix the underlying Bedrock issue at some point, probably some months from now, but I can't make any promises. 2020-01-15T13:54:19 #kisslinux <lieuxnoir> ## Description of package 2020-01-15T13:54:19 #kisslinux <lieuxnoir> ## Checklist 2020-01-15T13:54:19 #kisslinux <lieuxnoir> - [ ] Latest upstream version. 2020-01-15T13:54:19 #kisslinux <lieuxnoir> - [ ] I agree to maintain this package (**required**). 2020-01-15T13:54:19 #kisslinux <lieuxnoir> - [ ] I agree to notify KISS if I can no longer maintain this package (**required**). 2020-01-15T13:54:21 #kisslinux <lieuxnoir> ## Description of package 2020-01-15T13:54:21 #kisslinux <lieuxnoir> ## Checklist 2020-01-15T13:54:21 #kisslinux <lieuxnoir> - [ ] Latest upstream version. 2020-01-15T13:54:21 #kisslinux <lieuxnoir> - [ ] I agree to maintain this package (**required**). 2020-01-15T13:54:22 #kisslinux <lieuxnoir> - [ ] I agree to notify KISS if I can no longer maintain this package (**required**). 2020-01-15T13:54:42 #kisslinux <lieuxnoir> oops 2020-01-15T13:55:11 #kisslinux <lieuxnoir> my scroll button pastes stuff lol 2020-01-15T13:56:08 #kisslinux <lieuxnoir> did not know that until now 2020-01-15T13:59:35 #kisslinux <lieuxnoir> paradigm: Thanks! I might also do some tests in the coming weeks. I only wanted to access Arch's official and AU repos and see if they go well. But that's best to know. 2020-01-15T14:00:16 #kisslinux <lieuxnoir> dwfgx 2020-01-15T14:00:32 #kisslinux <konimex> both slackware and CRUX still use sysvinit, right? 2020-01-15T14:00:36 #kisslinux <paradigm> Arch's repos and the AUR both get tons of testing in Bedrock and should be fine. Getting most of your basics from KISS (potentially baring the init concern) but miscellaneous other things from Arch seems perfectly viable. 2020-01-15T14:02:05 #kisslinux <paradigm> Slackware and CRUX use "BSD-style" rather than "SysV-style" init. They're more like each other than the other big names today. 2020-01-15T14:02:49 #kisslinux <konimex> iirc that's the rc, not the /sbin/init 2020-01-15T14:03:27 #kisslinux * paradigm nods 2020-01-15T14:57:48 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> I want to open forums for KISS 2020-01-15T14:58:03 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> s/forums/a forum/ 2020-01-15T14:59:43 #kisslinux <konimex> is the subreddit not enough? 2020-01-15T15:01:27 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> Reddit is one large feed and I don't think it works well. 2020-01-15T15:01:38 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> Plus I miss the classic forum structure 2020-01-15T15:01:56 #kisslinux <konimex> hmmm... you want a normal forum accessible from browser or old bbs style with telnet/ssh and all that jazz? 2020-01-15T15:02:58 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> Dunno if I'll do it yet of course 2020-01-15T15:03:04 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> Dunno about telnet/ssh either 2020-01-15T15:04:00 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> I can hack a forum together without a backend with little effort. 2020-01-15T15:04:05 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> ie, fully static 2020-01-15T15:05:28 #kisslinux <lieuxnoir> what will the backend look like? 2020-01-15T15:05:41 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> No backend 2020-01-15T15:06:58 #kisslinux <lieuxnoir> how are threads saved? 2020-01-15T15:07:38 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> On the frontend 2020-01-15T15:07:56 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> It's hard to explain 2020-01-15T15:08:06 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> I did the same for a realestate website I made 2020-01-15T15:08:25 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> I can then host it 100% free :P 2020-01-15T15:37:34 #kisslinux <paradigm> For Bedrock, I gave up managing my own forum due to spam fighting concerns and outsourced it. We're currently using linuxquestions.org. They don't charge me anything; they just ask I'm available to answer questions. I'm sure they'd love to have KISS if that makes things easier on you. However, if you can make a static self-hosted solution and aren't worried about spam, I can certainly see that 2020-01-15T15:37:40 #kisslinux <paradigm> being preferable. 2020-01-15T17:13:39 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> KISS will soon have Surf + webkitgtk thanks to cemkeylan https://github.com/kisslinux/community/issues/212#issuecomment-574744996 2020-01-15T17:13:47 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> > Finally! I am back to surf. I will be cleaning stuff up and open a PR when they are all ready. 2020-01-15T17:21:36 #kisslinux <mahmudov> whats the difference carbs linux from kiss? 2020-01-15T17:39:51 #kisslinux <Aarg> neat 2020-01-15T17:39:59 #kisslinux <Aarg> is webkitgtk actually usable? 2020-01-15T17:40:55 #kisslinux <Aarg> I remember most browsers using it where quite broken (dwb, uzbl, surf etc) 2020-01-15T17:42:17 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> No idea 2020-01-15T17:42:26 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> It's an alternative to Firefox either way :P 2020-01-15T17:43:28 #kisslinux <Aarg> yea, that's good 2020-01-15T17:45:01 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> I've heard that compile times are horrible though. 2020-01-15T17:46:43 #kisslinux <Aarg> It always used to be bad iirc 2020-01-15T17:53:07 #kisslinux <E5ten> I compiled webkitgtk once like over a year ago 2020-01-15T17:53:23 #kisslinux <E5ten> I can confirm the compile times are truly the worst 2020-01-15T17:55:08 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> Aw, it requires ICU and possibly gettext 2020-01-15T17:55:54 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> ICU would also become a dependency for everyone as harfbuzz has to link to it. :( 2020-01-15T17:58:40 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> webkitgtk also requires ruby weirdly 2020-01-15T18:00:04 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> mahmudov: No idea really. It's a fork of KISS. 2020-01-15T18:02:28 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> It really should say that it's a fork of (or based on) KISS somewhere though. 2020-01-15T18:03:18 #kisslinux <mahmudov> just curious- 2020-01-15T18:03:52 #kisslinux <mahmudov> busybox is used instead of coreutils in kiss linux? 2020-01-15T18:05:47 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> mahmudov: Yeah, KISS uses busybox 2020-01-15T18:05:53 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> As does carbs linux 2020-01-15T18:06:07 #kisslinux <mahmudov> i see, 2020-01-15T18:06:20 #kisslinux <mahmudov> maybe thought is it the difference 2020-01-15T18:06:23 #kisslinux <mahmudov> just to be sure 2020-01-15T18:06:52 #kisslinux <mahmudov> btw what do you think about toybox? 2020-01-15T18:07:07 #kisslinux <mahmudov> it can be use replacement of busybox? 2020-01-15T18:07:09 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> Toybox is interesting 2020-01-15T18:07:18 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> I don't think it's 100% done yet though. 2020-01-15T18:07:28 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> The goal is to allow you to swap to any coreutils in KISS. 2020-01-15T18:09:08 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> Carbs is more a user repository with some additional packages spun as a new distribution. 2020-01-15T18:19:26 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> Heh. I'm not mentioned in the license for the fork of the init scripts. https://github.com/CarbsLinux/init/blob/master/LICENSE 2020-01-15T18:20:24 #kisslinux <Guest83> News on cat? 2020-01-15T18:21:17 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> Cat is doing cat stuff again. 2020-01-15T18:21:31 #kisslinux <Guest83> great news m8 2020-01-15T18:21:39 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> Back to cleaning himself and showing his normal traits 2020-01-15T18:22:19 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> Thanks :) 2020-01-15T18:23:00 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> He's still got a long way to go though. 2020-01-15T18:23:03 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> Not out of the woods yet. 2020-01-15T18:24:32 #kisslinux <Guest83> positive signs. best wishes to cat 2020-01-15T18:25:38 #kisslinux <Guest83> is your clock correct? 2020-01-15T18:26:02 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> > Wed Jan 15 20:23:44 EET 2020 2020-01-15T18:26:05 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> Looks to be 2020-01-15T18:26:21 #kisslinux <Guest83> git commits are showing some being committed at a future time again 2020-01-15T18:26:47 #kisslinux <Guest83> like in a few minutes ....? 2020-01-15T18:26:54 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> I can see that too actually. 2020-01-15T18:27:05 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> "committed in 1 minute" 2020-01-15T18:27:22 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> Hm. I haven't touched the clock or anything related to it. 2020-01-15T18:27:49 #kisslinux <Guest83> strange 2020-01-15T18:28:55 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> My time is actually two minutes slow according to an online clock for where I am. 2020-01-15T18:33:21 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> https://cemkeylan.com/2019/12/03/carbs-linux.html 2020-01-15T18:33:43 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> Looks like he was developing his own distro, found KISS and forked it instead. 2020-01-15T18:39:33 #kisslinux <E5ten> mahmudov: toybox is the best :)) 2020-01-15T18:43:35 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> How is toybox development recently? 2020-01-15T18:45:03 #kisslinux <mahmudov> erstwhile developer of toybox also was developing aboriginal linux 2020-01-15T18:46:00 #kisslinux <mahmudov> was coming with toybox defaultly.. 2020-01-15T18:46:06 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> Nice 2020-01-15T18:46:12 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> I remember Aboriginal Linux 2020-01-15T18:46:23 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> Didn't know it was the same developer. 2020-01-15T18:46:36 #kisslinux <E5ten> he's working on the shell a lot right now 2020-01-15T18:46:45 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> ooo 2020-01-15T18:46:46 #kisslinux <E5ten> trying to reimplement bash in like 3k lines I think lol 2020-01-15T18:47:06 #kisslinux <mahmudov> yeb same 2020-01-15T18:47:48 #kisslinux <mahmudov> http://landley.net/aboriginal/ 2020-01-15T18:52:03 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> I find this odd actually: https://github.com/landley/toybox/issues/77 2020-01-15T19:13:55 #kisslinux <Aarg> +1 2020-01-15T19:14:16 #kisslinux <Aarg> very weird choice 2020-01-15T19:14:49 #kisslinux <Aarg> Interactive features I could understand 2020-01-15T19:29:36 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> -> find . -type f -name *.rb | wc -l 2020-01-15T19:29:36 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> 44 2020-01-15T19:29:37 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> Ah 2020-01-15T19:29:52 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> webkit2gtk has 44 ruby scripts used during the build process(?) 2020-01-15T19:30:22 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> Or are they used at runtime as well? 2020-01-15T19:30:38 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> > ./Source/JavaScriptCore/offlineasm/arm64.rb 2020-01-15T19:30:44 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> > ./Source/JavaScriptCore/bytecode/BytecodeList.rb 2020-01-15T19:32:27 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> https://bugs.webkit.org/show_bug.cgi?id=114560 2020-01-15T19:32:31 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> Just build time 2020-01-15T19:36:41 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> OK 2020-01-15T19:36:46 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> I have solved the harfbuzz-icu issue. 2020-01-15T20:02:34 #kisslinux <E5ten> in kiss init's pseudo fs part isn't the -p on the mkdir unnecessary cuz the dirs being created are one level subdirectories of directories created in the previous mounting commands? 2020-01-15T20:04:49 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> Yes 2020-01-15T20:05:21 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> Though this removes errors if they already exist too. 2020-01-15T20:05:43 #kisslinux <E5ten> ah didn't think about that 2020-01-15T20:06:02 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> -p is the magical flag 2020-01-15T20:07:46 #kisslinux <E5ten> also not that it'd ever actually be an issue but in the tries=) case line I think ${opt#=} instead of ${opt##*=} should be used because even though an argument to -T containing an = wouldn't be valid, if it was provided the wrong argument would be given 2020-01-15T20:08:07 #kisslinux <E5ten> * also not that it'd ever actually be an issue but in the tries=*) case line I think ${opt#*=} instead of ${opt##*=} should be used because even though an argument to -T containing an = wouldn't be valid, if it was provided the wrong argument would be given 2020-01-15T20:08:35 #kisslinux <E5ten> * also not that it'd ever actually be an issue but in the tries=) case line I think ${opt#*=} instead of ${opt##=} should be used because even though an argument to -T containing an = wouldn't be valid, if it was provided the wrong argument would be given 2020-01-15T20:08:52 #kisslinux <E5ten> * also not that it'd ever actually be an issue but in the tries=*) case line I think ${opt#*=} instead of ${opt##*=} should be used because even though an argument to -T containing an = wouldn't be valid, if it was provided the wrong argument would be given 2020-01-15T20:08:59 #kisslinux <adamantium> E5ten: !!!!!!!!! 2020-01-15T20:09:00 #kisslinux <adamantium> lol 2020-01-15T20:09:01 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> lol 2020-01-15T20:09:06 #kisslinux <adamantium> hi guys btw 2020-01-15T20:09:12 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> ello 2020-01-15T20:09:20 #kisslinux <adamantium> im trying to package up vanilla sources with gentoo patches 2020-01-15T20:09:29 #kisslinux <adamantium> probably will go in the overlay... 2020-01-15T20:09:41 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> E5ten: I really don't want to touch the cryptsetup stuff if I don't have to. 2020-01-15T20:09:45 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> lol 2020-01-15T20:10:25 #kisslinux <E5ten> yeah but you're making it so that if someone passed like tries=thisisn'tvalid=5 cryptsetup would get passed -T 5 as if a correct arg was provided 2020-01-15T20:11:39 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> Gotcha 2020-01-15T20:14:17 #kisslinux <E5ten> and I think probably the last thing, but are subdirs of the sysctl.d directories supposed to be supported? 2020-01-15T20:14:40 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> Yeah 2020-01-15T20:14:45 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> According to the docs for --system 2020-01-15T20:14:51 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> Hence the find call 2020-01-15T20:14:58 #kisslinux <E5ten> I don't think they are so you could probably ditch find and use [ -f filevar ] || continue in the loop 2020-01-15T20:15:04 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> Or am I wong? 2020-01-15T20:15:35 #kisslinux <E5ten> I don't think subdirs are supported? 2020-01-15T20:15:48 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> See: https://manpages.debian.org/unstable/procps/sysctl.8.en.html 2020-01-15T20:15:53 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> Under "--system" 2020-01-15T20:16:06 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> Oh 2020-01-15T20:16:08 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> I am wrong 2020-01-15T20:16:09 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> lol 2020-01-15T20:16:16 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> Lovely 2020-01-15T20:16:17 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> less code 2020-01-15T20:16:32 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> Thanks E5ten 2020-01-15T20:17:16 #kisslinux <E5ten> nothing like the removal of an external command from a script 2020-01-15T20:17:21 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> Feels good 2020-01-15T20:19:30 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> > Support for the CURL backend was dropped, libsoup is the only HTTP 2020-01-15T20:19:31 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> backend now. 2020-01-15T20:19:35 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> :( 2020-01-15T20:19:39 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> (webkit2gtk) 2020-01-15T20:20:02 #kisslinux <E5ten> what's that from? 2020-01-15T20:20:08 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> webkit2gtk 2020-01-15T20:20:22 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> Used to support curl but now requires GNOME crap 2020-01-15T20:20:31 #kisslinux <E5ten> ah 2020-01-15T20:20:57 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> I'm working through to package this from scratch 2020-01-15T20:21:08 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> It's gross 2020-01-15T20:21:13 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> But a different gross to Firefox 2020-01-15T20:22:04 #kisslinux <E5ten> it's inherently gross cuz it's GNOME software ;) 2020-01-15T20:22:36 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> glib-networking up next 2020-01-15T20:22:58 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> meson :( 2020-01-15T20:22:59 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> why 2020-01-15T20:23:12 #kisslinux <E5ten> you don't like meson? 2020-01-15T20:23:34 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> I don't like Python 2020-01-15T20:23:59 #kisslinux <E5ten> I don't either lol, that's why I dislike meson relative to cmake 2020-01-15T20:24:04 #kisslinux <E5ten> but I still like it more than autotools 2020-01-15T20:24:30 #kisslinux <E5ten> A. because holy shit it's so much worse like what the fuck how does autotools exists and B. because I dislike GNU more than I dislike python 2020-01-15T20:24:56 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> More dependencies: libbrotlidec libpsl 2020-01-15T20:25:28 #kisslinux <E5ten> is this actually worth it 2020-01-15T20:25:42 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> There's nothing wrong with autotools. See grub's 30k line configure script 2020-01-15T20:25:50 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> E5ten: No 2020-01-15T20:26:25 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> There's work being done by the Carbs Linux guy to get webkit2gtk into community 2020-01-15T20:26:40 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> There's issues with his package (needing to add ICU to core repositories etc) 2020-01-15T20:27:01 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> Rather than say "No" I'd rather come up with solutions to the problems. 2020-01-15T20:27:27 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> I'm doing it from scratch as I've found a bunch of incomplete dependency lists and issues with each dep. 2020-01-15T20:27:50 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> Also, an alternative to Firefox would be nice 2020-01-15T20:27:54 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> (No matter what it is) 2020-01-15T20:28:07 #kisslinux <E5ten> but the packages are inherently the problems because they're GNOME software 2020-01-15T20:28:39 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> The other alternative is qtwebshit which is awful on musl systems 2020-01-15T20:28:43 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> :( 2020-01-15T20:29:11 #kisslinux <E5ten> like unbuildable period or requiring heavy patching? 2020-01-15T20:29:17 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> Alpine and Void's qtwebengine has been broken for years 2020-01-15T20:29:27 #kisslinux <adamantium> we should get this webkit into shape 2020-01-15T20:29:31 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> Lots and lots of patching as well 2020-01-15T20:29:35 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> adamantium: I am 2020-01-15T20:29:37 #kisslinux <adamantium> it's just a bunch of ruby build time deps 2020-01-15T20:29:41 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> no no 2020-01-15T20:29:43 #kisslinux <adamantium> :D 2020-01-15T20:30:18 #kisslinux <E5ten> in fairness that could just be that nobody on alpine or void who're be able to get the patches up to date so it builds use it 2020-01-15T20:30:27 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> This may actually be worse than Firefox 2020-01-15T20:30:32 #kisslinux <adamantium> lol 2020-01-15T20:30:40 #kisslinux <adamantium> i dont believe you 2020-01-15T20:30:44 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> I've started work on qtwebengine by packaging qt5 btw 2020-01-15T20:30:46 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> Baby steps 2020-01-15T20:30:51 #kisslinux <adamantium> The thing that pisses me about firefox is rust 2020-01-15T20:30:55 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> Yup 2020-01-15T20:31:01 #kisslinux <adamantium> i dont want to compile rust, and rust compiles single threaded 2020-01-15T20:31:04 #kisslinux <adamantium> takes forever 2020-01-15T20:31:11 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> Rust is disgusting 2020-01-15T20:31:38 #kisslinux <adamantium> rust is just more corporate libre propagandists circle jerk 2020-01-15T20:31:55 #kisslinux <adamantium> ok im going back to work now 2020-01-15T20:32:40 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> o/ 2020-01-15T20:32:44 #kisslinux <adamantium> "work" 2020-01-15T20:32:47 #kisslinux <adamantium> ;) 2020-01-15T20:32:58 #kisslinux <adamantium> btw we dont have dbus so i do not have a good notify system 2020-01-15T20:33:16 #kisslinux <adamantium> but if you /query me it will get my attention, it creates an Emacs popup in my ERC 2020-01-15T20:33:29 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> Birch has no support for /query :P 2020-01-15T20:33:33 #kisslinux <adamantium> geez........ 2020-01-15T20:34:07 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> Hey, it's a WIP 2020-01-15T20:34:53 #kisslinux <adamantium> k 2020-01-15T20:35:20 #kisslinux <E5ten> you should try to get qt5-webengine working instead of this tbh, might be a disaster on musl but if you do get it working it'll mean you'll be able to have browsers that both don't need rust to compile and aren't GNOME crap 2020-01-15T20:35:48 #kisslinux <adamantium> It is a lot of work to get "surf" 2020-01-15T20:35:52 #kisslinux <adamantium> :D 2020-01-15T20:36:25 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> What are the dependencies like? 2020-01-15T20:36:32 #kisslinux <adamantium> I disagree though 2020-01-15T20:37:09 #kisslinux <adamantium> The work has already begun on webkit-gtk, why either or not and not both 2020-01-15T20:37:23 #kisslinux <E5ten> you can enable a lot of bundled deps which I did so idk the full list but for me it's like some X libs, expat, nss, and some qt libs 2020-01-15T20:37:58 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> E5ten: Nice. Will take a look once I'm done here. 2020-01-15T20:38:42 #kisslinux <E5ten> ok so without bundling the other libs are ffmpeg, opus, webp and :(((( icu 2020-01-15T20:39:28 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> :(((((((((( 2020-01-15T20:39:37 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> Can we bundle ICU? 2020-01-15T20:39:42 #kisslinux <E5ten> yeah 2020-01-15T20:39:52 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> phew 2020-01-15T20:39:53 #kisslinux <E5ten> -qt-webengine-icu 2020-01-15T20:39:56 #kisslinux <E5ten> it'll build it in 2020-01-15T20:39:57 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> No system infection 2020-01-15T20:40:05 #kisslinux <E5ten> yep 2020-01-15T20:40:35 #kisslinux <E5ten> so I mean I still think that having to have bundled icu is less of a loss than requiring rust to build or being GNOME crap that depends on a bunch of other GNOME crap 2020-01-15T20:41:10 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> I agree 2020-01-15T20:41:40 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> See: https://github.com/void-linux/void-packages/issues/2368 2020-01-15T20:41:55 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> Also: https://git.alpinelinux.org/aports/tree/community/qt5-qtwebengine?h=master 2020-01-15T20:42:20 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> We can do a better job though. 2020-01-15T20:42:56 #kisslinux <E5ten> yeah I expect this is something that can be overcome 2020-01-15T20:42:57 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> This "impossible" stuff motivates me :^) 2020-01-15T20:46:07 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> adamantium: I've already reduced the webkit2gtk deps 2020-01-15T20:47:58 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> :( Libxslt is the XSLT C library developed for the GNOME project. 2020-01-15T20:48:00 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> :( 2020-01-15T20:51:34 #kisslinux <E5ten> Damn qt5-webengine also has a crappy build dep, requires python2 specifically (seems to be because chromium does not cuz webengine does specifically) 2020-01-15T20:53:35 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> Damn 2020-01-15T20:53:45 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> They had how many years to migrate? 2020-01-15T20:56:56 #kisslinux <adamantium> heh https://termbin.com/a3s9 2020-01-15T20:57:27 #kisslinux <adamantium> dylanaraps: you're not going to like this https://termbin.com/edpo 2020-01-15T20:59:51 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> Nice 2020-01-15T21:01:27 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> My webkit2gtk package (and dependencies) includes fewer dependencies :DDDD 2020-01-15T21:01:39 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> It passes configure now 2020-01-15T21:01:44 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> Fails at gettext though. 2020-01-15T21:01:53 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> This is where the fun begins 2020-01-15T21:01:59 #kisslinux <adamantium> gettext is wicked 2020-01-15T21:10:16 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> Oh 2020-01-15T21:10:29 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> webkit2gtk supports disabling gettext but it's broken 2020-01-15T21:10:31 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> Nice 2020-01-15T21:10:53 #kisslinux <E5ten> both cool, and also fun 2020-01-15T21:11:14 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> They forgot it could be disabled basically 2020-01-15T21:11:21 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> Then went ahead and added more gettext 2020-01-15T21:16:57 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> I win gettext >:D 2020-01-15T21:17:02 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> [524/4009] Building CXX object Source/WTF/wtf/CMakeFiles/WTF.dir/text/icu/UTextProviderLatin1.cpp.o 2020-01-15T21:17:41 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> > [2054/4009] Building CXX object Source/WTF/wtf/CMakeFiles/WTF.dir/RandomNumber.cpp.o 2020-01-15T21:17:44 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> Uh 2020-01-15T21:17:46 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> This is fast 2020-01-15T21:17:56 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> Something must be wrong 2020-01-15T21:18:12 #kisslinux <merakor> Until 2000 it is fast 2020-01-15T21:18:17 #kisslinux <merakor> It slows down 2020-01-15T21:18:28 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> Good to know 2020-01-15T21:18:34 #kisslinux <merakor> By 3000, it will be dead slow 2020-01-15T21:19:27 #kisslinux <merakor> I'm cem by the way :D 2020-01-15T21:19:36 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> Wonderful 2020-01-15T21:19:37 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> Hello 2020-01-15T21:20:01 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> I fixed the harfbuzz ICU issue by creating a new package called harfbuzz-icu. 2020-01-15T21:20:40 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> harfbuzz is actually already split in this way upstream. 2020-01-15T21:20:47 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> So it's easy to do 2020-01-15T21:20:57 #kisslinux <merakor> Is it like freetype-harfbuzz where both of them are built into a single package? 2020-01-15T21:21:02 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> no no 2020-01-15T21:21:08 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> ICU is still separate 2020-01-15T21:21:16 #kisslinux <merakor> Oh I see 2020-01-15T21:21:17 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> I added harfbuzz-icu 2020-01-15T21:21:28 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> Which builds harfbuzz's ICU stuff 2020-01-15T21:21:39 #kisslinux <merakor> Oh that makes sense 2020-01-15T21:21:42 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> This then depends on ICU and freetype-harfbuzz 2020-01-15T21:22:01 #kisslinux <merakor> So we keep icu out of freetype-harfbuzz 2020-01-15T21:22:02 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> Also managed to drop some dependencies. 2020-01-15T21:22:05 #kisslinux <merakor> Much more sane 2020-01-15T21:22:05 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> Yes 2020-01-15T21:22:13 #kisslinux <merakor> Which ones? 2020-01-15T21:22:52 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> glib-networking gettext libidn2 libtasn1 2020-01-15T21:22:55 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> I believe 2020-01-15T21:23:52 #kisslinux <merakor> I saw the gettext bit 2020-01-15T21:23:55 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> It may be more actually 2020-01-15T21:24:00 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> This is my list: 2020-01-15T21:24:10 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> icu, libXslt libpsl libsoup webkit2gtk 2020-01-15T21:24:18 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> and harfbuzz-icu 2020-01-15T21:24:44 #kisslinux <merakor> It is really funny that they forgot to disable gettext when you pass the option 2020-01-15T21:24:51 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> (of new dependencies which don't already exist in the repos) 2020-01-15T21:24:53 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> Yup... 2020-01-15T21:25:00 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> Mozilla did the same with Firefox and dbus 2020-01-15T21:25:20 #kisslinux <merakor> Web engine development is actually cancer 2020-01-15T21:25:27 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> It is 2020-01-15T21:26:41 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> This build is really slow now 2020-01-15T21:26:44 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> Thanks c++ 2020-01-15T21:26:50 #kisslinux <merakor> You either get somethint that does not conform to web standards and can't run 90 percent of web functionality, or you get a pile of garbage that does everything terribly 2020-01-15T21:27:12 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> And the web standards are ever growing 2020-01-15T21:28:04 #kisslinux <merakor> Yeah, like we don't already have more than have enough javascript hell 2020-01-15T21:28:18 #kisslinux <merakor> More than enough* 2020-01-15T21:28:23 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> How long does this take your machine to build? 2020-01-15T21:29:05 #kisslinux <merakor> I usually get bored and leave my computer, but around half an hour 2020-01-15T21:29:24 #kisslinux <merakor> It's an I7 8th gen laptop 2020-01-15T21:30:11 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> I have an Intel i7-6500U 2020-01-15T21:31:16 #kisslinux <merakor> The actual issue is cores 2020-01-15T21:31:18 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> Will take me longer me thinks 2020-01-15T21:31:20 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> Yup 2020-01-15T21:31:24 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> Only got 4 2020-01-15T21:31:39 #kisslinux <merakor> I got 12 2020-01-15T21:32:25 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> Nice 2020-01-15T21:32:28 #kisslinux <merakor> It will probably take an hour for you since the build doesn't benefit much from them 2020-01-15T21:32:42 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> > [2333/4009] 2020-01-15T21:32:46 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> Maybe longer. 2020-01-15T21:32:50 #kisslinux <merakor> Oh 2020-01-15T21:33:14 #kisslinux <merakor> Yeah mine would be at 3000 right now 2020-01-15T21:33:23 #kisslinux <merakor> Then it gets really slower 2020-01-15T21:33:59 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> I'll leave this for tomorrow while I'm busy. 2020-01-15T21:34:31 #kisslinux <merakor> It also sucks when you wait that long and it fails. At least we fixed the issues that happen near the end. 2020-01-15T21:34:44 #kisslinux <merakor> Yeah that's probably for the best 2020-01-15T21:35:02 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> Yup 2020-01-15T21:35:10 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> Firefox was failing 2 hours in for me the other day. 2020-01-15T21:35:31 #kisslinux <merakor> Yeah, same for me too. 2020-01-15T21:35:44 #kisslinux <merakor> I am glad that now I am back to using surf. 2020-01-15T21:36:32 #kisslinux <merakor> I have been using it for a long time, I was having brain farts using Firefox and netsurf. 2020-01-15T21:36:41 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> Does your build include the sandbox? 2020-01-15T21:36:57 #kisslinux <merakor> No I disabled it 2020-01-15T21:37:09 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> We'll need to enable it. 2020-01-15T21:37:18 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> E5ten: https://techcrunch.com/2020/01/15/mozilla-lays-off-70-as-it-waits-for-subscription-products-to-generate-revenue/?guccounter=2 2020-01-15T21:37:57 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> > Mozilla lays off 70 as it waits for new products to generate revenue 2020-01-15T21:38:06 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> Better time as any to look for alternatives. 2020-01-15T21:38:28 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> > The overall number may still be higher, though, as Mozilla is still looking into how this decision will affect workers in the UK and France. 2020-01-15T21:38:41 #kisslinux <konimex> how many of the 70 sacked there are actual devs as opposed to marketing/legal? 2020-01-15T21:38:46 #kisslinux <merakor> Why do we need to enable sandbox? I don't exactly know what it changes. 2020-01-15T21:39:17 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> Mozilla spent $50,000,000 on marketing in 2018 lol 2020-01-15T21:39:28 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> They receive hundreds of millions from Google 2020-01-15T21:39:50 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> Mozillas 2017 revenue was 562.3 million USD 2020-01-15T21:39:59 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> s/Mozillas/Mozilla's/ 2020-01-15T21:40:12 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> Something doesn't add up 2020-01-15T21:40:43 #kisslinux <E5ten> yikes 2020-01-15T21:41:56 #kisslinux <konimex> mozilla's projects are not just firefox, but now rust, I guess that cost as much as firefox nowadays 2020-01-15T21:42:26 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> In 2018 mozilla had 368 million USD in assets. 2020-01-15T21:42:42 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> They don't support rust like they do Firefox iirc. 2020-01-15T21:43:04 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> The Rust devs are starting a foundation to seek corporate funds. 2020-01-15T21:43:06 #kisslinux <E5ten> oh right I forgot to mention, qt5-webengine does require slight modification to not use dbus 2020-01-15T21:43:08 #kisslinux <merakor> They will probably pull the plugs from rust. 2020-01-15T21:43:13 #kisslinux <E5ten> lemme know when you're trying it and I'll send a patch 2020-01-15T21:43:17 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> E5ten: Thanks 2020-01-15T21:44:03 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> Also: https://twitter.com/BrendanEich/status/1217512049716035584/photo/1 2020-01-15T21:44:32 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> Just the chart 2020-01-15T21:44:38 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> Not the rest of the Twitter crap 2020-01-15T21:45:14 #kisslinux <merakor> Mozilla cares about things that will get them money. Rust didn't turn out as good as the initial appraisal, they started backing away from it. 2020-01-15T21:45:24 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> (Red is the CEO paycheck) 2020-01-15T21:45:51 #kisslinux <merakor> The only reason they act loving towards privacy and open source is Google 2020-01-15T21:46:05 #kisslinux <merakor> Also netscape GPL forces them to 2020-01-15T21:46:32 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> (In the 70 sacked are QA, Security and Release Management people) 2020-01-15T21:47:32 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> Also: https://blog.mozilla.org/blog/2020/01/15/readying-for-the-future-at-mozilla/ 2020-01-15T21:48:18 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> What an empty letter 2020-01-15T21:48:46 #kisslinux <merakor> 4 paragraphs of BS 2020-01-15T21:49:20 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> > [3070/4009] 2020-01-15T21:49:25 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> Heh 2020-01-15T21:50:12 #kisslinux <merakor> It's not that bad actually, half an hour now? 2020-01-15T21:50:28 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> About that long, yeah 2020-01-15T21:50:30 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> https://twitter.com/grmpyprogrammer/status/1217527164255592449 2020-01-15T21:50:41 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> > All the leads in QA got let go. 2020-01-15T21:52:33 #kisslinux <merakor> It will probably be done in about 20 minutes 2020-01-15T21:54:05 #kisslinux <merakor> Perhaps everybody is disposable on the eyes of Baker 2020-01-15T21:55:10 #kisslinux <adamantium> lmk when webkitgtk2 is ready for testing guys 2020-01-15T21:55:16 #kisslinux <adamantium> i'll be more than happy to 2020-01-15T21:55:27 #kisslinux <adamantium> (hurry up) 2020-01-15T21:55:44 #kisslinux <adamantium> :P 2020-01-15T21:55:58 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> I need to get it to build with the sandbox enabled first. 2020-01-15T21:56:10 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> This unsandboxed build will finish soon though. 2020-01-15T21:56:32 #kisslinux <adamantium> I bet it's going to be crashy 2020-01-15T21:56:35 #kisslinux <adamantium> lol 2020-01-15T21:57:13 #kisslinux <adamantium> what does sandboxed do 2020-01-15T22:02:24 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> Oh 2020-01-15T22:02:33 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> The webkit2gtk sandbox is pointless anyway 2020-01-15T22:02:52 #kisslinux <merakor> It also requires dbus iirc 2020-01-15T22:03:00 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> Yes 2020-01-15T22:03:01 #kisslinux <merakor> Not sure though 2020-01-15T22:03:37 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> But it only sandboxes filesystem access, network access and dbus access. 2020-01-15T22:03:48 #kisslinux <merakor> Yup it does 2020-01-15T22:04:49 #kisslinux <merakor> What else could it sandbox though? 2020-01-15T22:05:24 #kisslinux <merakor> Other processes? 2020-01-15T22:05:34 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> Xorg, Audo device access and GPU access 2020-01-15T22:05:38 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> s/Audo/Audio/ 2020-01-15T22:05:54 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> I'm reading their presentation slides from last year. 2020-01-15T22:06:23 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> They're hoping PipeWire and Wayland save them from Xorg/Pulseaudio 2020-01-15T22:06:33 #kisslinux <merakor> But we are already building without opengl and audio support 2020-01-15T22:06:38 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> Hence why the sandbox covers only the above 3 I mentioned 2020-01-15T22:06:48 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> Exactly 2020-01-15T22:07:43 #kisslinux <merakor> Yeah wayland isn't going to be suddenly standardized in the foreseen future either. 2020-01-15T22:08:26 #kisslinux <merakor> Waiting for pipewire and wayland is not a smart move 2020-01-15T22:09:02 #kisslinux <merakor> But it's a web engine and no web engine has smart moves granted for them. 2020-01-15T22:09:04 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> IBM 2020-01-15T22:09:12 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> Is all I'll say 2020-01-15T22:10:59 #kisslinux <merakor> Yeah well 2020-01-15T22:11:48 #kisslinux <merakor> Gnome and KDE have their implementations but they are extremely specificly made for their own environments 2020-01-15T22:12:04 #kisslinux <merakor> It is also not easy for the end user to configure 2020-01-15T22:13:08 #kisslinux <merakor> X11 might be in a bad spot, but most users prefer it for good reason. 2020-01-15T22:14:33 #kisslinux <adamantium> It'd be better to just let surf/webkit2 people figure out something like firejail for themselves 2020-01-15T22:14:37 #kisslinux <adamantium> I think 2020-01-15T22:16:48 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> Just run it as a separate user 2020-01-15T22:17:01 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> No access to your home dir at all 2020-01-15T22:17:03 #kisslinux <TwistedFate> howdy 2020-01-15T22:17:07 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> ello 2020-01-15T22:18:46 #kisslinux <merakor> Yeah, there is always an option for people who would like such access control. 2020-01-15T22:18:55 #kisslinux <merakor> How is the build going? 2020-01-15T22:19:23 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> [3274/4009] 2020-01-15T22:19:57 #kisslinux <TwistedFate> whatcha building? 2020-01-15T22:21:06 #kisslinux <merakor> WebKit-GTK 2020-01-15T22:21:20 #kisslinux <TwistedFate> eww 2020-01-15T22:21:26 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> yup 2020-01-15T22:22:24 #kisslinux <merakor> In suckless's surf homepage, it says compile your own webkit or expect hell 2020-01-15T22:22:41 #kisslinux <merakor> They should replace it 2020-01-15T22:22:59 #kisslinux <merakor> Compile your own webkit AND expect hell 2020-01-15T22:29:01 #kisslinux <adamantium> dylanaraps: what is your cpu 2020-01-15T22:29:11 #kisslinux <adamantium> i'm surprised it's taking this long! 2020-01-15T22:29:54 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> Intel i7-6500U 2020-01-15T22:30:03 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> [3344/4009] 2020-01-15T22:30:40 #kisslinux <adamantium> oh ok, so 2.5ghz with 2 cores thats why 2020-01-15T22:31:45 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> 4 threads though :P 2020-01-15T22:31:48 #kisslinux <adamantium> i just upgraded my workstation from 2ghz 6 core cpu to 3.6ghz 4 core. I can make -j8 instead of the -j12 like before but it's ripping through stuff really fast. 2020-01-15T22:32:06 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> My actual PC is 6 core 5Ghz 2020-01-15T22:32:08 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> ... 2020-01-15T22:32:09 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> But 2020-01-15T22:32:14 #kisslinux <adamantium> nice 2020-01-15T22:32:23 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> It's on the other side of the world 2020-01-15T22:32:27 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> In a box 2020-01-15T22:32:34 #kisslinux <adamantium> Much good that's doing you 2020-01-15T22:32:39 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> Oh yes 2020-01-15T22:32:44 #kisslinux <adamantium> Where in the world abouts 2020-01-15T22:32:48 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> Australia 2020-01-15T22:32:54 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> I'm in Greece now 2020-01-15T22:33:01 #kisslinux <adamantium> Hopefully Kangaroo doesn't smash it 2020-01-15T22:33:25 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> I built that PC years and years ago 2020-01-15T22:33:32 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> Held together with tape and hope 2020-01-15T22:33:37 #kisslinux <adamantium> lol 2020-01-15T22:33:48 #kisslinux <konimex> fucking piece of shit sheff wed still managed to win 3-0, goodbye title race 2020-01-15T22:33:54 #kisslinux <konimex> whoops wrong window 2020-01-15T22:33:56 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> lol 2020-01-15T22:33:59 #kisslinux <merakor> Loool 2020-01-15T22:35:04 #kisslinux <merakor> You are from Australia? 2020-01-15T22:35:27 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> Yes 2020-01-15T22:35:39 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> Though both of my parents are Greek 2020-01-15T22:37:19 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> [3404/4009] 2020-01-15T22:38:19 #kisslinux <adamantium> lmao using kiss to manage kernel sources is soooooooo slowwwwwwwwwww dylanaraps 2020-01-15T22:38:28 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> wdym? 2020-01-15T22:38:38 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> Oh 2020-01-15T22:38:42 #kisslinux <adamantium> all the iterations kiss does over thousands of files 2020-01-15T22:38:46 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> package conflicts etc 2020-01-15T22:38:52 #kisslinux <adamantium> no conflicts... 2020-01-15T22:38:57 #kisslinux <adamantium> just all of the kiss checks 2020-01-15T22:39:12 #kisslinux <adamantium> it's a good performance benchmark case for kiss I think 2020-01-15T22:39:15 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> This should be faster when I release a new update 2020-01-15T22:39:34 #kisslinux <dzove855> aah? your migration to GNU grep ? 2020-01-15T22:39:35 #kisslinux <merakor> Oh, I see. I hope no one close to you is affected by the bushfires. 2020-01-15T22:39:55 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> GNU grep and minor optimizations to the code itself. 2020-01-15T22:39:58 #kisslinux <adamantium> What about gnu grep ? 2020-01-15T22:40:03 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> Should be faster in both cases. 2020-01-15T22:40:12 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> Though much much faster with GNU grep. 2020-01-15T22:40:19 #kisslinux <adamantium> oh interesting 2020-01-15T22:40:19 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> kiss will use gnu grep if available. 2020-01-15T22:40:29 #kisslinux <adamantium> haha you're welcome then 2020-01-15T22:40:34 #kisslinux <adamantium> ;) 2020-01-15T22:40:53 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> merakor: The news on the fires hasn't been accurate at all 2020-01-15T22:41:08 #kisslinux <merakor> Really? 2020-01-15T22:41:13 #kisslinux <merakor> How so? 2020-01-15T22:41:17 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> Same goes for the news in Greece 2020-01-15T22:41:32 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> There's no economic crisis here 2020-01-15T22:42:12 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> Fires aren't as bad as they're made out to be and the animal death counts are false to give two examples 2020-01-15T22:42:17 #kisslinux <merakor> Yeah, I have been there. I love Greece. 2020-01-15T22:43:34 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> [3456/4009] 2020-01-15T22:45:17 #kisslinux <merakor> When I saw a news article about the bushfire was about to surround the earth completely, I thought that was a stretch, but I didn't think it wasn't as bad as the news outlets say. 2020-01-15T22:46:07 #kisslinux <adamantium> anyone using the gcc native optimizations patch on the kernel 2020-01-15T22:46:11 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> Me 2020-01-15T22:46:14 #kisslinux <adamantium> patch -p1 < 5012_enable-cpu-optimizations-for-gcc91.patch 2020-01-15T22:46:17 #kisslinux <adamantium> it workz 2020-01-15T22:46:32 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> I use a different one though 2020-01-15T22:46:36 #kisslinux <adamantium> im using the gentoo one 2020-01-15T22:46:39 #kisslinux <adamantium> any reason not to? 2020-01-15T22:46:47 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> enable_additional_cpu_optimizations_for_gcc_v9.1%2 2020-01-15T22:46:48 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> B_kernel_v5.5%2B.patch 2020-01-15T22:46:50 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> oops 2020-01-15T22:46:53 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> That split in two 2020-01-15T22:47:06 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> Let me get a proper link 2020-01-15T22:47:17 #kisslinux <adamantium> any reason not to use the gentoo one? 2020-01-15T22:47:23 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> https://github.com/graysky2/kernel_gcc_patch 2020-01-15T22:47:24 #kisslinux <adamantium> i was thinking they'd just do all the maintaining for me 2020-01-15T22:47:27 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> No idea 2020-01-15T22:47:35 #kisslinux <adamantium> if you look at 2020-01-15T22:47:38 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> This one is updated regularly too 2020-01-15T22:47:47 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> They might be by the same guy lol 2020-01-15T22:47:49 #kisslinux <adamantium> https://dev.gentoo.org/~mpagano/genpatches 2020-01-15T22:47:56 #kisslinux <adamantium> they update the patches they use for every kernel version 2020-01-15T22:48:40 #kisslinux <adamantium> however i cannot get all of their recommended patches to apply cleanly one after another in a row to their proposed said versions 2020-01-15T22:48:53 #kisslinux <adamantium> So after a while I said screw it nothing is wrong with vanilla anyways 2020-01-15T22:49:12 #kisslinux <adamantium> Gentoo are just elitists that think they have to patch everything 2020-01-15T22:49:49 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> I just use the patch to allow for -march=native and I change -O2 to -O3. 2020-01-15T22:49:58 #kisslinux <adamantium> That's the plan here too 2020-01-15T22:50:14 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> [3511/4009] 2020-01-15T22:50:20 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> Man this is slow 2020-01-15T22:50:31 #kisslinux <E5ten> in kiss is it even possible to trigger the : "${grep:=grep}" thing? that feels like it's gotta be a dead codepath 2020-01-15T22:50:46 #kisslinux <merakor> Yeah, it really slows down after 3000 and never speeds up 2020-01-15T22:50:58 #kisslinux <merakor> You are probably on WebCore right now 2020-01-15T22:51:02 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> A bad 'command -v' could E5ten 2020-01-15T22:51:11 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> One that doesn't set the error code correctly. 2020-01-15T22:52:14 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> It's a guard against the absolute worst case where kiss *could* run with no valid grep. 2020-01-15T22:52:18 #kisslinux <E5ten> imo the correct response to "this shell builtin isn't working correctly according to POSIX" is fix the shell not accomodate it in the script 2020-01-15T22:52:44 #kisslinux <dzove855> actually you could hash it 2020-01-15T22:52:47 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> busybox command is fine 2020-01-15T22:53:34 #kisslinux <E5ten> I didn't say busybox's command was broken, I meant any hypothetical shell where command is broken and therefore leaving $grep empty by the time the : call is reached 2020-01-15T22:53:50 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> Yeah 2020-01-15T22:55:08 #kisslinux <E5ten> also I don't think command -v ever outputs to stderr (and if it does something is wrong) so redirection shouldn't be necessary 2020-01-15T22:56:20 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> You're right 2020-01-15T22:57:27 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> Fixed 2020-01-15T22:57:48 #kisslinux <adamantium> question Support for P6_NOPs on Intel chips (X86_P6_NOP) [N/y/?] (NEW) 2020-01-15T22:58:00 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> I picked y 2020-01-15T22:58:00 #kisslinux <adamantium> Should I turn this on? i'm using sandybridge and ivybridge cpus 2020-01-15T22:58:07 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> (On Skylake) 2020-01-15T22:58:12 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> Check the help for it 2020-01-15T22:58:16 #kisslinux <adamantium> i guess it only add support 2020-01-15T22:58:20 #kisslinux <adamantium> so is safe to say y 2020-01-15T22:59:24 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> > P6_NOPs are a relatively minor optimization that require a family >= 2020-01-15T22:59:24 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> +6 processor 2020-01-15T22:59:42 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> o/ 2020-01-15T22:59:48 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> [3702/4009] 2020-01-15T23:00:34 #kisslinux <merakor> I will be sleeping now, but I will check on tomorrow for WebKit. If any issues remain, we can do the builds on my own computer. 2020-01-15T23:00:40 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> Ciao 2020-01-15T23:00:53 #kisslinux <merakor> Bye 2020-01-15T23:02:18 #kisslinux <E5ten> since %b is POSIX, in log() you can replace the middle %s with %b%s%b, and then separate the "${2:+<literal escape stuff>}$1${2:+<literal escape stuff>}" with "${2:+<non-literal escape stuff>}" "$1" "${2:+<non-literal escape stuff>}" 2020-01-15T23:03:09 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> E5ten: Will do tomorrow 2020-01-15T23:03:12 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> Thanks 2020-01-15T23:06:27 #kisslinux <E5ten> actually since the printf format sequence already does "033[m" after the %s the second "${2:+stuff}" isn't needed so you can just change the second %s to %b%s and the "${2:+stuff}$1${2:+stuff}" to "${2:+stuff}" "$1" 2020-01-15T23:12:39 #kisslinux <E5ten> not that you'd use it anyway cuz the arguments aren't options, but in args() it says "POSIX 'sh' has no getopts" but it totally does ;) 2020-01-15T23:17:48 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> [4000/4009] 2020-01-15T23:17:50 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> :^) 2020-01-15T23:18:22 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> -> webkit2gtk Successfully created tar-ball 2020-01-15T23:31:29 #kisslinux <E5ten> holy shit no wonder you added the GNU grep thing 2020-01-15T23:31:40 #kisslinux <E5ten> busybox grep is ridiculously slow 2020-01-15T23:31:42 #kisslinux <E5ten> like wow 2020-01-15T23:31:56 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> yup 2020-01-15T23:32:09 #kisslinux <E5ten> doing something that took toybox grep 0.491 seconds took busybox grep 6.265 2020-01-15T23:32:48 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> gnu grep is also really fast 2020-01-15T23:36:03 #kisslinux <E5ten> me when I'm building GNU grep for no reason other than to hopefully see that it's slower than toybox grep 2020-01-15T23:36:09 #kisslinux <adamantium> I appreciate gnu stuff and use it as necessary. Nice touch adding it. 2020-01-15T23:36:30 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> See: https://lists.freebsd.org/pipermail/freebsd-current/2010-August/019310.html 2020-01-15T23:36:34 #kisslinux <adamantium> All of our gnu utils are static compiled and g prefixed. Staying out of the way of base but handy when available :))) 2020-01-15T23:36:45 #kisslinux <E5ten> dammit GNU grep is faster 2020-01-15T23:36:51 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> Look at my link :P 2020-01-15T23:37:21 #kisslinux <E5ten> I'm looking now 2020-01-15T23:38:00 #kisslinux <E5ten> also could you send examples of each of the files that would be used for each of the grep usages in kiss? 2020-01-15T23:39:59 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> Here's a manifest: https://termbin.com/gfp0r 2020-01-15T23:40:13 #kisslinux <Aarg> GNU can be hard to beat sometimes 2020-01-15T23:40:15 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> Manifests are in /var/db/kiss/installed/*/manifest 2020-01-15T23:40:19 #kisslinux <E5ten> thanks 2020-01-15T23:40:29 #kisslinux <Aarg> There was an article about their `yes` a while ago 2020-01-15T23:40:31 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> kiss uses grep to look for matches in every manifest 2020-01-15T23:40:34 #kisslinux <Aarg> pretty interesting too 2020-01-15T23:40:52 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> Aarg: The large buffers right? 2020-01-15T23:40:57 #kisslinux <E5ten> even if it's fast, I still think GNU grep is the single dumbest piece of software ever created 2020-01-15T23:40:59 #kisslinux <Aarg> something like that, yeah 2020-01-15T23:41:07 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> GNU grep isn't the original grep 2020-01-15T23:41:20 #kisslinux <E5ten> so? 2020-01-15T23:41:28 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> Why is GNU grep dumb? 2020-01-15T23:42:01 #kisslinux <adamantium> omg literaally just filled up my hard drive to capacity 2020-01-15T23:42:06 #kisslinux <adamantium> this is why I can't have nice things 2020-01-15T23:42:14 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> I need to benchmark grep with '--mmap' too 2020-01-15T23:42:21 #kisslinux <E5ten> it's the dumbest piece of software ever created because they implemented a flag, -P, to make grep but with perl regex, to use this -P flag, one has to compile GNU grep with it linking to pcre. pcre comes with a command known as pcregrep, which shockingly, is grep with perl regex 2020-01-15T23:42:44 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> That's amazing 2020-01-15T23:42:54 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> adamantium: 2020-01-15T23:42:54 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> -> kiss l webkit2gtk 2020-01-15T23:42:54 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> webkit2gtk 2.26.2 1 2020-01-15T23:43:00 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> Will have this up tomorrow. 2020-01-15T23:43:39 #kisslinux <adamantium> I want it tonight 2020-01-15T23:43:44 #kisslinux <adamantium> Where can I find the build files that i need 2020-01-15T23:43:48 #kisslinux <adamantium> thanks dylanaraps 2020-01-15T23:44:18 #kisslinux <adamantium> :P 2020-01-15T23:44:39 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> oops 2020-01-15T23:44:47 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> Mine has no HTTPS support 2020-01-15T23:44:48 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> lol 2020-01-15T23:45:01 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> I'm missing glib-networking 2020-01-15T23:45:02 #kisslinux <adamantium> can you push your build somewhere so i can poke at it 2020-01-15T23:45:05 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> Hang on. 2020-01-15T23:45:07 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> Yup 2020-01-15T23:45:09 #kisslinux <adamantium> thx 2020-01-15T23:45:12 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> Will put it in testing/ 2020-01-15T23:45:16 #kisslinux <adamantium> k 2020-01-15T23:45:19 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> Let me just add the missing de 2020-01-15T23:45:21 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> dep* 2020-01-15T23:45:47 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> ooo 2020-01-15T23:45:53 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> I think it works at runtime 2020-01-15T23:49:17 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> It works :D 2020-01-15T23:50:18 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> adamantium: pushed to testing 2020-01-15T23:50:35 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> https://github.com/kisslinux/repo/tree/master/testing