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I stumbled over Gemini a while ago and today tried to setup my first blog post. I take issue with the fact that a paragraph has to be one long line. I think the markdown way is perfect: Two newlines create a paragraph. Period. This way, everyone can write maintaining the common width of 80 characters, and it will still be displayed as intended. For the first time in a long while I started to search neovim's help to find out if there's any way to have long lines and still work with them productively. Softwrap on or off doesn't do the trick, it's rather annoying when you want to edit something in the mid of a huge paragraph. `30w cw`... My life would be more easy if I could just do what I always did and wrap at 80. Considering Gemini will mostly target software people, I think that's appropriate. But if anyone here can provide me with a clever (neovim) trick to deal with these long lines, I'm open to hear about it. P.
It simplifies the client design this way. On Fri Nov 13, 2020 at 1:37 PM EST, Philipp Stanner wrote: > But if anyone here can provide me with a clever (neovim) trick to deal > with these long lines, I'm open to hear about it. Plugin 'https://tildegit.org/sloum/gemini-vim-syntax' autocmd FileType gmi set wrap linebreak
On 11/13/20 6:37 PM, Philipp Stanner wrote: > For the first time in a long while I started to search neovim's help to > find out if there's any way to have long lines and still work with them > productively. Softwrap on or off doesn't do the trick, it's rather > annoying when you want to edit something in the mid of a huge > paragraph. `30w cw`... I'm a neovim user. The Pencil plugins are extremely useful for dealing with text in better ways. It provides modes such as :PencilSoft which does exactly what you'd need for gemtext. Without such a plugin, though, you can still use wordwrap with some regular vim settings to break on whole words. For navigating vertically in softwraps you can use gj and gk, or set that as the default with: noremap <silent> <expr> j (v:count == 0 ? 'gj' : 'j') noremap <silent> <expr> k (v:count == 0 ? 'gk' : 'k') It's quite nice to work with once you have the settings in place.
Am Freitag, den 13.11.2020, 13:38 -0500 schrieb Drew DeVault: > It simplifies the client design this way. I guess it does. But it also almost requires people to install plugins for their standard tools (or to mouse-click in their editors). I'm not sure whether I like that ? Gemini is supposed to make everything more easy and leightweight, after all. > Plugin 'https://tildegit.org/sloum/gemini-vim-syntax' > autocmd FileType gmi set wrap linebreak I'll check it out, thank you.
> Period. This way, everyone can write maintaining the common width of 80 Mobile phones beg to differ.
On Sat, 14 Nov 2020 12:06:08 +0100 Philipp Stanner <stanner at posteo.de> wrote: > But it also almost requires people to install plugins for their > standard tools (or to mouse-click in their editors). It doesn't require you to install anything, nor does it require you to click your mouse. Perhaps you should read the NeoVim manual on configuring wrapping behavior and display line oriented motions. Quick guide: Enable wrapping: set wrap lbr Display line oriented motions: gj, gk, g^, g$, g0, ... > I'm not sure whether I like that ? Gemini is supposed to make > everything more easy and leightweight, after all. It rather seems like you are overwhelmed by your editor here, not Gemini. If you want easy, use tools that are easy to you. -- Philip -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 488 bytes Desc: not available URL: <https://lists.orbitalfox.eu/archives/gemini/attachments/20201114/094d cd5a/attachment.sig>
Am Samstag, den 14.11.2020, 11:08 +0000 schrieb ?ppen: > > Period. This way, everyone can write maintaining the common width > > of 80 > > Mobile phones beg to differ. Clients could still render it as desired on the phone. Just like Markdown: A single line feed is not printed as a new line by a gemini client, two are.
Am Samstag, den 14.11.2020, 11:08 +0000 schrieb ?ppen: > > Period. This way, everyone can write maintaining the common width > > of 80 > > Mobile phones beg to differ. Clients could still render it as desired on the phone. Just like Markdown: A single line feed is not printed as a new line by a gemini client, two are.
Philipp Stanner <stanner at posteo.de> writes: > Just like Markdown: > A single line feed is not printed as a new line by a gemini > client, two > are. So the 30?000+ text/gemini pages (and maybe a number of the 80?000+ text/plain pages that are actually gemtext?) currently reported by GUS would need to be reformatted by their authors? Alexis.
Philipp Stanner <stanner at posteo.de> writes: > I stumbled over Gemini a while ago and today tried to setup my first > blog post. > > I take issue with the fact that a paragraph has to be one long line. I > think the markdown way is perfect: Two newlines create a paragraph. > Period. This way, everyone can write maintaining the common width of 80 > characters, and it will still be displayed as intended. I think the reason for this choice is due to the fact that in text/gemini you have different kinds of lines: paragraphs, links, quotations, items and the ``` marker to switch to verbatim. If you add a rule to ?join? sequential non-blank ?simple? lines into one paragraph, it can cause weird effects. Let?s say you change some text in the paragraph and you reformat it: your editor may decide to break a long line so that the next now starts with a ?*? or with a ?>?? You can change the gemtext spec again so that items and quotation needs a blank line before but? is ugly, isn?t it? (this point is also aggravated by the fact that it isn?t clear if a space after ?*?, ?=>? etc. is required or not, so clients can misbehave, at least in theory) I am not a fan of long lines and visual folding either, but it simplify the syntax (good for parsers) and makes it difficult *for humans* to introduce errors in their documents. > For the first time in a long while I started to search neovim's help to > find out if there's any way to have long lines and still work with them > productively. Softwrap on or off doesn't do the trick, it's rather > annoying when you want to edit something in the mid of a huge > paragraph. `30w cw`... > > My life would be more easy if I could just do what I always did and > wrap at 80. Considering Gemini will mostly target software people, I > think that's appropriate. > > But if anyone here can provide me with a clever (neovim) trick to deal > with these long lines, I'm open to hear about it. > > P.
Am Samstag, den 14.11.2020, 23:21 +1100 schrieb Alexis: > So the 30?000+ text/gemini pages (and maybe a number of the > 80?000+ text/plain pages that are actually gemtext?) currently > reported by GUS would need to be reformatted by their authors? In theory, better now than later. Just think about all the other things which can't be improved or changed anymore because they were established decades ago and now have countless users and standards. Gemini has no RFC yet (or does it?) so if there's a time when adjustments are still reasonable, then it is now. In theory. But Polo's answer sounds rather reasonable anyways. P.
On Sat, 14 Nov 2020 15:37:32 +0100 Philipp Stanner <stanner at posteo.de> wrote: > In theory, better now than later. Consider the advantages of a third option: never. To be frank, the argument you've presented for this change is fundamentally that you don't know how to use your editor to deal with soft wrapped lines, and that it makes your life easier not having to learn it. What's the advantage for the rest of us? -- Philip -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 488 bytes Desc: not available URL: <https://lists.orbitalfox.eu/archives/gemini/attachments/20201114/5e3b fb5b/attachment.sig>
A solution to this problem for those who think this is an issue: Just write a server that pulls single linebreaks back into one line in source files before sending them to clients. Then you can use vim more effectively or whatever without imposing change on a spec already followed by oodles of clients and servers and thousands upon thousands of pages of content. Our options back when softwrap was decided were: 1) hardwrapping at some crazy small number of characters that would only look good on a phone 2) optionally doing error-prone text reflowing that so it might look good on something other than a phone 3) what actually happened Each of these is still less complex than this markdown suggestion and was done at a time when there was basically no content on the protocol and even still didn't require anything to be rewritten, because hard-wrapped content is still viewablw with softwrap. What is being suggested would require substantial rewrites for literally every single thing ever created related to gemini, and even if we accepted that, would require some means for new clients to know the difference between the new spec and the old one, either giving us a new mime type or some kind of version header, and now we're in solderpunk's nightmare scenario. So no, I don't think this will happen, but you could always write a server that autoconverts your markdown-y content into gemtext! best, lel
> In theory, better now than later. Or not at all. If you want markdowns line ends then use markdown. > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: <https://lists.orbitalfox.eu/archives/gemini/attachments/20201114/c745 b7f7/attachment.htm>
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