💾 Archived View for gemi.dev › gemini-mailing-list › 000837.gmi captured on 2024-05-12 at 16:16:35. Gemini links have been rewritten to link to archived content
⬅️ Previous capture (2023-12-28)
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Now that the Lupa crawler <gemini://gemini.bortzmeyer.org/software/lupa/> can connect to .onion capsules (capsules reachable only through Tor), I'm wondering how many are they? Lupa currently only knows two working .onion capsules. Are there others? And how should we call this? Dark Gemini? :-) % lupa-info-capsule -v pgorl32jhgkgald7tcsp6k7zpujvd763kywenr72yr76fqjaomxf7kid.onion Capsule pgorl32jhgkgald7tcsp6k7zpujvd763kywenr72yr76fqjaomxf7kid.onion added on 2021-03-23 13:42:43.670117 (2 days ago), last successful connection on 2021-03-25 23:19:58.956199 (9 hours ago) self-signed 7194 URLs, 5392 successful (return code 20). 110 megabytes IP address(es): % lupa-info-capsule -v nreqeynb23uo5btcibmpgj3xzrb7rdoe3bojab56golipzysgbbiavid.onion Capsule nreqeynb23uo5btcibmpgj3xzrb7rdoe3bojab56golipzysgbbiavid.onion added on 2021-02-16 11:13:28.069591 (1 months ago), last successful connection on 2021-03-25 19:41:01.362566 (13 hours ago) self-signed 20 URLs, 14 successful (return code 20). 39 kilobytes IP address(es): If you want to setup yours, see <gemini://gemini.bortzmeyer.org/gemini/onion.gmi>.
On Fri, 26 Mar 2021 10:07:50 +0100 Stephane Bortzmeyer <stephane@sources.org> wrote: > And how should we call this? Dark Gemini? :-) It could be called Deep Space? After all, Gemini is named after a space program. ~almaember
On 3/26/21 10:07 AM, Stephane Bortzmeyer wrote: > Now that the Lupa crawler > <gemini://gemini.bortzmeyer.org/software/lupa/> can connect to .onion > capsules (capsules reachable only through Tor), I'm wondering how many > are they? Lupa currently only knows two working .onion capsules. Are > there others? > I will be making an onion service of my capsule tonight or later this weekend. Thanks! Jason
On Fri, Mar 26, 2021 at 10:17:43AM +0100, almaember <almaember@disroot.org> wrote a message of 9 lines which said: > > And how should we call this? Dark Gemini? :-) > > It could be called Deep Space? After all, Gemini is named after a space > program. Great idea. Or Dark Matter <https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dark_matter> or Dark Energy <https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dark_energy> :-)
> On Mar 26, 2021, at 10:23, Stephane Bortzmeyer <stephane@sources.org> wrote: > > Or Dark Matter Darkspace for sure :D https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Darkspace_(band) ±0¢
On Fri, 26 Mar 2021 10:23:01 +0100 Stephane Bortzmeyer <stephane@sources.org> wrote: > Great idea. Or Dark Matter > <https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dark_matter> or Dark Energy > <https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dark_energy> :-) Good ideas. But if we call it deep space, we can say deep space capsules for the individual capsules ~almaember
Hello Stephane, Stephane Bortzmeyer <stephane@sources.org> writes: > Now that the Lupa crawler > <gemini://gemini.bortzmeyer.org/software/lupa/> can connect to .onion > capsules (capsules reachable only through Tor), I'm wondering how many > are they? Lupa currently only knows two working .onion capsules. Are > there others? > > And how should we call this? Dark Gemini? :-) > > ... Ok, you got me. I'll throw my "deep space" capsule in: => gemini://gupfqffv6cmvcmfhfbcplsu4jgv3rsuk53qkwovbch6zzymkuq3vlsad.onion/ It's a mirror of the one at circumlunar.space. But maybe I should start to throw in some "dark matter" to make it even more invisible ... :-) Thank you very much for all the work you put in! Cheers, ~ew => => gemini://gemini.circumlunar.space/~ew/ -- Keep it simple!
Hello Stephane, Stephane Bortzmeyer <stephane@sources.org> writes: > % lupa-info-capsule -v nreqeynb23uo5btcibmpgj3xzrb7rdoe3bojab56golipzysgbbiavid.onion > Capsule nreqeynb23uo5btcibmpgj3xzrb7rdoe3bojab56golipzysgbbiavid.onion I can reach this place via "torify kristall", however, my beloved "Solar Storm Alerts!" are not working, error: "Not found." Which probably is buried in nreq...onion/presto not being handled properly. Not found: => gemini://nreqeynb23uo5btcibmpgj3xzrb7rdoe3bojab56golipzysgbbiavid.onion/presto => gemini://nreqeynb23uo5btcibmpgj3xzrb7rdoe3bojab56golipzysgbbiavid.onion/gemini/idn.gmi The other top level links are working for me. Cheers, ~ew -- Keep it simple!
Onion sites often have clearnet counterparts that send an HTTP header to inform the user agent that a hidden site exists; that way, the user can switch from connecting to the clearnet site through an exit node to connecting to the hidden service without any exit nodes involved. Some way to inform the user agent to switch to the hidden version when available would be appreciated, since exit nodes are the weakest point of the Tor network. Without some way to automatically "upgrade" to the hidden version, users might end up accidentally using the clearnet version of the site. -- /Seirdy
On Fri, Mar 26, 2021 at 08:34:08PM +0100, ew.gemini <ew.gemini@nassur.net> wrote a message of 59 lines which said: > Ok, you got me. I'll throw my "deep space" capsule in: > => gemini://gupfqffv6cmvcmfhfbcplsu4jgv3rsuk53qkwovbch6zzymkuq3vlsad.onion/ At the present time, I cannot reach it. Temporary problem? Shameless ad: Manisha <gemini://gemini.bortzmeyer.org/software/manisha/> can now monitor onion capsules :-)
On Fri, Mar 26, 2021 at 02:27:34PM -0700, Rohan Kumar <seirdy@seirdy.one> wrote a message of 42 lines which said: > Onion sites often have clearnet counterparts that send an HTTP > header to inform the user agent that a hidden site exists; The non-standard Onion-Location: <https://community.torproject.org/onion-services/advanced/onion-location/>. > Some way to inform the user agent to switch to the hidden version > when available would be appreciated, Yes, but I'm not sure how to do it without headers. In the DNS?
> Yes, but I'm not sure how to do it without headers. In the DNS? Or we can have a "standardized" location - like /.well-known/onion which will serve the onion address and clients can check for it if they want. I can see that could be useful even for web.
On Sat, 27 Mar 2021 11:23:14 +0000 Sgaith <Sgiath@pm.me> wrote: > > Yes, but I'm not sure how to do it without headers. In the DNS? > > Or we can have a "standardized" location - like /.well-known/onion > which will serve the onion address and clients can check for it if > they want. I can see that could be useful even for web. It would also be possible, since the exit node list is public, for the server to detect if the client is connecting through Tor, and simply redirect it to the onion counterpart. ~almaember
On Fri, Mar 26, 2021 at 08:45:42PM +0100, ew.gemini <ew.gemini@nassur.net> wrote a message of 54 lines which said: > I can reach this place via "torify kristall", however, my beloved > "Solar Storm Alerts!" are not working, error: "Not found." Which > probably is buried in nreq...onion/presto not being handled > properly. This is because I copied the static content (.gmi files edited by hand) but not the automatically produced content. It is now done so <gemini://nreqeynb23uo5btcibmpgj3xzrb7rdoe3bojab56golipzysgbbiavid.onion/presto/> should now work.
Hello Stephane, Stephane Bortzmeyer <stephane@sources.org> writes: > On Fri, Mar 26, 2021 at 08:34:08PM +0100, > ew.gemini <ew.gemini@nassur.net> wrote > a message of 59 lines which said: > >> Ok, you got me. I'll throw my "deep space" capsule in: >> => gemini://gupfqffv6cmvcmfhfbcplsu4jgv3rsuk53qkwovbch6zzymkuq3vlsad.onion/ > > At the present time, I cannot reach it. Temporary problem? Hmmm. Apparently agate died. So I restarted it now. If you are fast ... :-) agate was the first thing I got to work. But maybe other choices would be /better/ --- for some convenient definition of better. > Shameless ad: Manisha > <gemini://gemini.bortzmeyer.org/software/manisha/> can now monitor > onion capsules :-) I have put this on my todo list already. Solar Storm Alerts are visible now via tor :-) Thanks for the heads up! Cheers, ~ew -- Keep it simple!
On Sat, Mar 27, 2021 at 12:54:18PM +0100, almaember wrote: > It would also be possible, since the exit node list is public, for the > server to detect if the client is connecting through Tor, and simply > redirect it to the onion counterpart. This is interesting; do you have any more information about this, or know of any sites that do so already? I'm not sure this is a good idea, since the decision to use the hidden service should be made by the user agent rather than the server IMO. A user on the Tor network might have a reason to visit the clearnet site. I like the .well-known idea, but that'd mean making an additional request on the client side. Headers remove this need, but relying on headers for anything besides information necessary to present the attached document (e.g. mimetype, lang) is probably frowned upon for good reason. -- /Seirdy
n Sat, 27 Mar 2021 at 17:23, Rohan Kumar <seirdy@seirdy.one> wrote: > > I like the .well-known idea, but that'd mean making an additional > request on the client side. Headers remove this need, but relying on > headers for anything besides information necessary to present the > attached document (e.g. mimetype, lang) is probably frowned upon for > good reason. > As I've learnt from previous discussions on this list, there's a good chance this doesn't need to be metadata. Would => <link> View this site in Deep Space (Tor) not work well? This is how we currently do it for Web/Gemini Space links. -Oliver Simmons
On Sat, 27 Mar 2021 10:22:49 -0700 Rohan Kumar <seirdy@seirdy.one> wrote: > This is interesting; do you have any more information about this, or > know of any sites that do so already? I don't think any sites doing this exist. This was merely a theoretical idea. > I'm not sure this is a good idea, since the decision to use the > hidden service should be made by the user agent rather than the > server IMO. A user on the Tor network might have a reason to visit > the clearnet site. I'm not exactly sure, what would be their reason to visit the clearnet site? But I do understand that it should be the client's responsibility to decide whether it wants the hidden service or not. > I like the .well-known idea, but that'd mean making an additional > request on the client side. Headers remove this need, but relying on > headers for anything besides information necessary to present the > attached document (e.g. mimetype, lang) is probably frowned upon for > good reason. Perhaps we could add a new response code to Gemini, an optional redirect of sorts. For example, the client requests gemini://capsule-one.com, and the META would look something like this: gemini://capsule-two.com text/gemini This would specify an alternative location that serves the same content. The client can then do whatever it feels like doing with it. This would work with .onion redirects, but also simple mirror sites. That's all I can think of right now. P.S. I'm sending this again because last time for some reason it didn't go to the mailing list (read: I forgot to also send it to the list address) ~almaember ~almaember
On Sat, Mar 27, 2021 at 07:45:08PM +0100, almaember <almaember@disroot.org> wrote a message of 69 lines which said: > Perhaps we could add a new response code to Gemini, an optional > redirect of sorts. For example, the client requests > gemini://capsule-one.com, and the META would look something like this: > > gemini://capsule-two.com text/gemini > > This would specify an alternative location that serves the same > content. There is certainly a need for that. HTTP does it with the Alt-Svc: header. => gemini://gemini.bortzmeyer.org/rfc-mirror/rfc7838.txt RFC 7838 on HTTP Alternative Services > This would work with .onion redirects, but also simple mirror sites. There is also the canonical link relation. => gemini://gemini.bortzmeyer.org/rfc-mirror/rfc6596.txt RFC 6596 on the canonical link type But the problem is how to have these services without adding extensible features, headers and HTTP complexity.
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