💾 Archived View for gemini.ctrl-c.club › ~phoebos › logs › kisslinux-2022-08-12.txt captured on 2024-05-12 at 16:02:08.
⬅️ Previous capture (2023-01-29)
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[2022-08-12T02:14:43Z] <jamesnuegss> Does anyone have a build for Openbox?
[2022-08-12T02:32:34Z] <jamesnuegss> if anyone has send the link, then I'll see through the logs
[2022-08-12T05:08:06Z] <testuser[m]12> Hi
[2022-08-12T05:32:54Z] <wael[m]> \o
[2022-08-12T10:58:19Z] <wael[m]> is there xdg-utils on KISS?
[2022-08-12T10:58:27Z] <wael[m]> or is it frowned upon?
[2022-08-12T11:27:01Z] <soliwilos> Could use this? https://github.com/wooosh/tao
[2022-08-12T11:50:18Z] <wael[m]> not partictularly xdg-open but xdg-mime
[2022-08-12T11:50:26Z] <wael[m]> but xdg-open relies on xdg-mime right?
[2022-08-12T12:39:03Z] <soliwilos> wael[m]: Yes, as far as I know xdg-open uses xdg-mime. That tao project is a smaller xdg-open/mime alternative.
[2022-08-12T12:40:57Z] <soliwilos> In stuff where you can configure an opener, you'd set tao or possibly just symlink to to xdg-open.
[2022-08-12T14:38:48Z] <ioraff> rewrote the kernel patch in awk. there's like a 6x speedup now
[2022-08-12T14:39:16Z] <ioraff> https://lore.kernel.org/linux-kbuild/a2ccf1338513f3a2250cd0a9fe5894f83ce3e4a7.1660314650.git.owen@owenrafferty.com/T/#u
[2022-08-12T14:40:56Z] <sad_plan> nice
[2022-08-12T15:20:22Z] <jamesnuegss> Does anyone have a build for Openbox?
[2022-08-12T15:22:17Z] <sad_plan> should be one in git history on community iirc
[2022-08-12T15:22:31Z] <sad_plan> just revert it and fork it into your own repo or something
[2022-08-12T15:26:41Z] <jamesnuegss> the problem is to find
[2022-08-12T15:33:50Z] <jamesnuegss> I found
[2022-08-12T15:34:07Z] <jamesnuegss> only available in 2019
[2022-08-12T15:56:10Z] <rohan> yo
[2022-08-12T15:56:33Z] <rohan> community have some git source outside of github?
[2022-08-12T15:59:41Z] <ioraff> I just found https://codeberg.org/kiss-community
[2022-08-12T15:59:45Z] <ioraff> but it's not up to date
[2022-08-12T16:01:10Z] <testuser[m]12> I have to set up mirroring
[2022-08-12T16:01:12Z] <testuser[m]12> after i get back to my pc
[2022-08-12T16:03:13Z] <testuser[m]12> Btw codeberg has a good migrate feature it can copy over issues wiki everything
[2022-08-12T16:04:18Z] <ioraff> did you set up that codeberg group?
[2022-08-12T16:34:48Z] <testuser[m]12> Yea
[2022-08-12T16:49:45Z] <rohan> someone knows if foot have some color reload config?
[2022-08-12T16:50:19Z] <rohan> is such a pain everytime i made a new colorscheme in pywal
[2022-08-12T16:50:30Z] <rohan> i need to change term colors manually
[2022-08-12T16:58:24Z] <Ogromny> Hum, you can do a workaround for that
[2022-08-12T16:59:10Z] <rohan> like how?
[2022-08-12T16:59:40Z] <Ogromny> In your foot config do a include blabla.conf or whatever and define your color in blabla.conf, like that generate your color with pywal in blabla.conf and you the next terminal you'll open will have the new color
[2022-08-12T17:00:36Z] <Ogromny> https://github.com/Ogromny/dot/blob/kiss/foot/foot.ini
[2022-08-12T17:01:04Z] <Ogromny> include=~/.config/foot/catppuccin/catppuccin.conf
[2022-08-12T17:08:04Z] <rohan> but by define color
[2022-08-12T17:08:17Z] <rohan> you mean in foot color style?
[2022-08-12T17:12:14Z] <Ogromny> yep
[2022-08-12T17:17:32Z] <midfavila> >tfw X solved this 35 years ago
[2022-08-12T18:06:36Z] <sad_plan> oh, midfavila did you figure out tinyx? if not, we did. in case you still wanted to try it or anything
[2022-08-12T18:07:33Z] <midfavila> sad_plan, I'll definitely look at it. i never really considered tinyx since I couldn't find enough info on its capabilities
[2022-08-12T18:07:48Z] <midfavila> is it capable of running gtk2 at the least?
[2022-08-12T18:08:19Z] <midfavila> speaking of windowing systems, anyone here who can hack C might find MGR interesting: https://github.com/hyc/mgr/
[2022-08-12T18:08:20Z] <sad_plan> dunno about 2, as I dont use it, but it runs 3 just fine. I use surf, wyeb, aswell as ive tried firefox, and no issue on my end anyway
[2022-08-12T18:08:37Z] <midfavila> can almost certainly run 2 if it can handle 3 - link to the package?
[2022-08-12T18:08:46Z] <midfavila> i might just swap XOrg for tinyx
[2022-08-12T18:09:10Z] <sad_plan> https://github.com/ehawkvu/kiss-xorg/tree/master/xorg/tinyx
[2022-08-12T18:09:28Z] <sad_plan> ive done it, been running tinyx for some time now, and I love it
[2022-08-12T18:10:23Z] <sad_plan> im planning to go mesa less, but I just need to figure out a browser that Im somewhat happy with that doesnt run mesa. I dunno tbh.
[2022-08-12T18:10:57Z] <midfavila> depends on what you need out of a browser, but I'm pretty certain links doesn't require anything like that
[2022-08-12T18:11:20Z] <midfavila> links+tabbed is my go-to recommendation if you need a basic browser
[2022-08-12T18:17:23Z] <midfavila> hmm
[2022-08-12T18:17:33Z] <midfavila> unfortunately it looks like the tinyx package doesn't like my setup
[2022-08-12T18:17:38Z] <midfavila> i'll have to poke at it more later
[2022-08-12T18:17:55Z] <midfavila> i wonder if tinyx can be built sans gcc
[2022-08-12T18:23:49Z] <wael[m]> I wonder if tinyx will accept xf86 keys and accept super key
[2022-08-12T18:27:41Z] <sad_plan> links doesnt require mesa. ive atleast built it on a mesa-less system earlier. i just find links to be somewhat lacking. I would like better css support. perhaps some JS aswell, but I should probably poke more around it.
[2022-08-12T18:28:08Z] <sad_plan> wael[m]: I cant get it to recognize super key at all.
[2022-08-12T18:28:38Z] <sad_plan> xev reports keysym 0x0, NoSymbol
[2022-08-12T18:29:22Z] <sad_plan> but I belive it recognizes xf keys. like fn + something
[2022-08-12T18:29:37Z] <sad_plan> atleast it seems to work on my laptop. I dont use those keys at all, but they should work
[2022-08-12T18:33:02Z] <midfavila> once i'm slightly less completely incompetent I intend to fork links
[2022-08-12T18:33:25Z] <midfavila> rip just the engine out, then add very basic CSS
[2022-08-12T18:33:26Z] <sad_plan> cool. what features are you looking to add? or remove for that matter, or improve
[2022-08-12T18:33:34Z] <sad_plan> nice
[2022-08-12T18:33:40Z] <midfavila> i want to remove its GUI features, as well as framebuffer and mouse support
[2022-08-12T18:33:48Z] <midfavila> basically, reduce links to a library
[2022-08-12T18:34:03Z] <midfavila> then build a very simple filesystem interface that uses that library to perform browser functions
[2022-08-12T18:34:14Z] <midfavila> idea being you can slap a UI with a native toolkit on top with minimal programming
[2022-08-12T18:34:20Z] <midfavila> or use it directly via scripts
[2022-08-12T18:34:37Z] <midfavila> i'd also like to add gopher support
[2022-08-12T18:34:45Z] <midfavila> and, if it doesn't support it, maybe ftp
[2022-08-12T18:36:04Z] <midfavila> i mean, once you remove all of the extraneous features, i can't imagine links is very large, sloc-wise
[2022-08-12T18:37:17Z] <sad_plan> sounds interesting. looking forward to seeing it in any case.
[2022-08-12T18:37:25Z] <midfavila> don't hold your breath :P
[2022-08-12T18:37:43Z] <wael[m]> @sad_plan : to be honest if I can't use super key or the most basic xf86 keys with tinyx why should I use it
[2022-08-12T18:37:45Z] <midfavila> i'm way too busy to devote nearly as much time as i'd like to programming stuff
[2022-08-12T18:38:05Z] <midfavila> wael[m] low resource utilization and a simpler codebase?
[2022-08-12T18:38:09Z] <sad_plan> I wont :p
[2022-08-12T18:39:05Z] <sad_plan> wael[m]: because its smaller, and faster than xorg-server. to me, ive only ditched super key, and thats it. except some performace graphics wise, but that doesnt bother me at all
[2022-08-12T18:40:14Z] <sad_plan> seconding mids comment aswell
[2022-08-12T18:42:19Z] <midfavila> besides, given its simpler design, i'm sure it wouldn't be hard to patch support for that in
[2022-08-12T18:43:18Z] <sad_plan> probably not
[2022-08-12T18:43:22Z] <midfavila> gah, so much stuff I want to do-
[2022-08-12T18:43:42Z] <sad_plan> whats stopping you?
[2022-08-12T18:44:05Z] <sad_plan> its actually 161k sloc, so I suppose its not thaat bad
[2022-08-12T18:44:33Z] <midfavila> sad_plan, i need to study for the security+ exam and it's soul-crushing as all hell
[2022-08-12T18:44:53Z] <midfavila> (also my math skills are still shit owing to the fact that I've spent the past year learning discrete memes instead of like, basic algebra, lmao)
[2022-08-12T18:46:18Z] <midfavila> if I can't construct calculus from scratch then *obviously* I can't learn how to program, smh
[2022-08-12T18:47:56Z] <sad_plan> I see. its a tough life I suppose when wanting to have a programming related education..
[2022-08-12T18:48:10Z] <midfavila> only if you're pigheaded enough to do it the way I am
[2022-08-12T18:48:20Z] <midfavila> very not-recommended
[2022-08-12T18:48:23Z] <sad_plan> lol
[2022-08-12T18:48:45Z] <sad_plan> why not change tactics, so youll get through it? and actually do all those things you wanna do
[2022-08-12T18:48:59Z] <sad_plan> like forking links as you mentioned
[2022-08-12T18:49:17Z] <midfavila> 'cause I'm too anxious to learn practical skills without having a complete understanding of their theoretical basis
[2022-08-12T18:50:26Z] <midfavila> my logic is, how am I supposed to write quality programs without a thorough understanding of the language I use and the algorithms and data structures underlying that? how am I supposed to understand those if I don't understand things like set theory, graph theory and calculus? how am I supposed to understand those without algebra and logic? those, without analysis? and so on
[2022-08-12T18:52:07Z] <midfavila> (and then at that point you need to learn the basics of pedagogy and language arts so as to teach yourself effectively, but that's a whole separate ballpark)
[2022-08-12T19:01:59Z] <sad_plan> I see youre point. and I cant say that I disagree. im having troubles myself, actually getting anywhere in relation to programming..
[2022-08-12T19:13:34Z] <ioraff> you don't gain a thorough understanding of a technical discipline without doing it with gradually increasing complexity. a freshman physics student isn't expected to know anything about quantum mechanics or how to do quantum mechanics problems -- this lack of a deeper understanding does not prevent one from doing useful things with newtonian physics.
[2022-08-12T19:14:07Z] <midfavila> oh, sure, no disagreement
[2022-08-12T19:14:36Z] <midfavila> that's why I said I don't suggest approaching anything the way I do. it's a personal flaw of mine
[2022-08-12T19:17:29Z] <midfavila> sad_plan, automake should be added to the tinyx depends file
[2022-08-12T19:17:36Z] <midfavila> tinyx requires aclocal to build
[2022-08-12T19:19:48Z] <midfavila> hmm
[2022-08-12T19:20:04Z] <midfavila> even after setting up a clean chroot to build tinyx in, it gives me trouble during link
[2022-08-12T19:20:11Z] <midfavila> undefined reference to main()
[2022-08-12T19:20:23Z] <midfavila> that's troublesome
[2022-08-12T19:20:58Z] <midfavila> C{XX}FLAGS are just '-O2 -w -pipe', LDFLAGS and MAKEFLAGS are both null
[2022-08-12T19:23:23Z] <midfavila> is it possible that there are other missing dependencies, sad_plan?
[2022-08-12T19:35:26Z] <sad_plan> it requires automake autoconf and libtool unfortunatly
[2022-08-12T19:37:45Z] <midfavila> nothing else? support libraries for fbdev perhaps?
[2022-08-12T19:38:15Z] <midfavila> i'm seeing undefined references to LinuxKeyboardFuncs and MouseFuncs, as well as a bunch of undefined references to fbdev* functions
[2022-08-12T19:48:28Z] <sad_plan> it requires some other stuff, but thos things are in the depends file. atleast they should be
[2022-08-12T19:49:08Z] <sad_plan> in any case, the afforementioned, freetype-harfbuzz, libXdmcp libXfont libXtst libfontentc, libpng, xtrans, zlib
[2022-08-12T19:49:17Z] <sad_plan> are the deps listed by kiss depends
[2022-08-12T19:50:00Z] <midfavila> hmm
[2022-08-12T19:50:06Z] <midfavila> yeah, I've got everything, then
[2022-08-12T19:50:08Z] <midfavila> that's odd
[2022-08-12T19:50:29Z] <midfavila> could have something to do with the alternate zlib I'm using, but it's never been an issue before
[2022-08-12T19:50:42Z] <sad_plan> strange indeed.
[2022-08-12T19:50:55Z] <midfavila> what's your compiler version?
[2022-08-12T19:51:01Z] <midfavila> and binutils
[2022-08-12T19:51:09Z] <midfavila> doubt that that's the problem, but it could be. i've seen stranger things
[2022-08-12T19:51:17Z] <sad_plan> gcc is 12.1.0, binutils is 2.39
[2022-08-12T19:52:50Z] <midfavila> hmm. both are newer than mine, I suppose I could give 12.1 and 2.39 a shot
[2022-08-12T19:53:00Z] <midfavila> just tried swapping gold for bfd, but that didn't change anything
[2022-08-12T19:53:04Z] <midfavila> :thinking:
[2022-08-12T19:55:38Z] <midfavila> perhaps the makefile fails to generate properly... that's the only other thing I'm thinking of
[2022-08-12T19:56:58Z] <sad_plan> are you using a really outdated autotools? could be something atleast. I know I just had an issue with libtool earlier, but its because I included those files to not need autotools to build it
[2022-08-12T19:57:28Z] <sad_plan> I could send you the makefile so you can compare them, if its of any help :p
[2022-08-12T19:57:43Z] <midfavila> amake is 1.16.5, aconf is 2.71, so I don't think they're crazy old :v
[2022-08-12T19:57:47Z] <midfavila> and no, I doubt comparing them would help
[2022-08-12T19:57:58Z] <sad_plan> however, now that I think about it, its no 1 makefile. iits like 8 of them or so
[2022-08-12T19:58:15Z] <midfavila> yeah, it does the thing that you're specifically not supposed to do using Make
[2022-08-12T19:58:32Z] <sad_plan> same as me
[2022-08-12T19:58:33Z] <midfavila> calling Makefiles from other Makefiles is such a pain in the ass to troubleshoot
[2022-08-12T19:58:37Z] <sad_plan> i knoow. I hate it....
[2022-08-12T19:58:50Z] <sad_plan> I wanna rewrite it, but I havent gotten around it
[2022-08-12T19:59:15Z] <sad_plan> neither is my knowledge fully up to par for such a task either
[2022-08-12T20:00:49Z] <midfavila> looks like amake and friends slapped -flto in the build
[2022-08-12T20:00:53Z] <midfavila> that might be it
[2022-08-12T20:01:00Z] <midfavila> my system doesn't support lto
[2022-08-12T20:01:03Z] <sad_plan> could be
[2022-08-12T20:01:06Z] <sad_plan> ah
[2022-08-12T20:04:55Z] <midfavila> yeah, that was it
[2022-08-12T20:05:00Z] <midfavila> tinyx seems to build without errors now
[2022-08-12T20:06:20Z] <midfavila> brb gonna test
[2022-08-12T20:11:16Z] <sad_plan> you do that. i g2g
[2022-08-12T20:49:18Z] <midfavila> yeah, so, good and bad news
[2022-08-12T20:49:23Z] <midfavila> good news, server builds itself fine
[2022-08-12T20:49:44Z] <midfavila> bad news one, the package still kills itself near the end of the build, and the logs don't seem to be of much help
[2022-08-12T20:50:06Z] <midfavila> bad news two, there don't seem to be any fonts provided by the distribution, so it fails to start due to an inability to load "fixed"
[2022-08-12T20:50:18Z] <midfavila> bad news three, there's basically zero documentation available on the net
[2022-08-12T20:51:42Z] <midfavila> i went ahead and decompressed both cursor.pcf.gz and one of the included ISO fonts, renamed the former "cursor" and the latter "fixed", and then manually pointed the server at "fixed" after doing the whole mkfontscale and mkfontdir song and dance, and still nothing
[2022-08-12T20:52:19Z] <midfavila> sad_plan, how'd you get your font situation sorted?
[2022-08-12T21:19:45Z] <sad_plan> midfavila I just used the included fonts. Nothing else really
[2022-08-12T21:20:27Z] <sad_plan> Included in the package i mean, not a separate one
[2022-08-12T21:21:50Z] <sad_plan> https://github.com/kyx0r/repo-main/releases/download/tinyxfont_1.0/tinyxfont.tar.gz this one. From the sources in the kiss-xorg repo I sent earlier
[2022-08-12T23:41:24Z] <midfavila> ah, okay, thanks
[2022-08-12T23:41:32Z] <midfavila> i was missing some of the files from that archive, it seems
[2022-08-12T23:41:49Z] <midfavila> namely the alias one -- i'll admit to not being familiar with low-level X11 configuration, so I suppose that's on me
[2022-08-12T23:41:57Z] <midfavila> maybe include some pointers in the tinyx README?