💾 Archived View for gemini.ctrl-c.club › ~phoebos › logs › kisslinux-2022-02-23.txt captured on 2024-05-12 at 16:03:15.
⬅️ Previous capture (2022-03-01)
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[2022-02-23T00:46:46Z] <noocsharp> a wayland command line copy/paste implementation with seat and mimetype selection in 315 lines of c
[2022-02-23T00:47:01Z] <noocsharp> (a lot of it duplicated)
[2022-02-23T03:22:38Z] <testuser[m]> Hi
[2022-02-23T03:36:33Z] <Guest77> Does encryption (LUKS) work with the busybox init? Nothing on the wiki about it
[2022-02-23T03:37:35Z] <tleydxdy[m]> those two things doesn't really have much to do with each other
[2022-02-23T04:32:36Z] <Guest77> tleydxdy[m] Yes that's what I thought. Are there any special kernel parameters I need to enable if I want to use cryptsetup
[2022-02-23T05:23:08Z] <noocsharp> testuser[m]: i updated wayclip again, can you check if there's anything that's obviously wrong?
[2022-02-23T07:29:06Z] <illiliti> noocsharp: https://github.com/noocsharp/wayclip/blob/master/util.c#L30
[2022-02-23T07:29:12Z] <illiliti> ssize_t
[2022-02-23T07:56:13Z] <testuser[m]> https://github.com/noocsharp/wayclip/blob/7f5c6936f3f46b7914a6e1c2c15066037efcb58b/util.c#L38
[2022-02-23T07:56:17Z] <testuser[m]> o
[2022-02-23T07:56:31Z] <testuser[m]> rcount can be SIZE_MAX
[2022-02-23T07:56:38Z] <testuser[m]> maybe u forgor a return after warn()
[2022-02-23T07:56:58Z] <testuser[m]> oh illiliti already pointed out the wrong type
[2022-02-23T08:34:02Z] <testuser[m]> The author clearly confuses one problem for another. Yes, if you allocate elements in a linked list with malloc, you're going to have a bad fucking time as it will spread out yourallocations everywhere. This is a problem with malloc/free and not with linked lists. I don't use libc and don't even have a "malloc" function because the concept of treating allocations as side effects is horrible and stupid
[2022-02-23T08:43:54Z] <illiliti> source?
[2022-02-23T08:46:53Z] <testuser[m]> https://libreddit.kavin.rocks/r/programming/comments/15vh7k/should_you_ever_use_linkedlists_probably_not/c7q7iko/?context=3
[2022-02-23T08:56:55Z] <illiliti> Could not resolve host: www.futurechips.org
[2022-02-23T08:58:08Z] <testuser[m]> Lol I was just using the comment as copy pasta , didnt read the original article
[2022-02-23T08:58:08Z] <testuser[m]> its dead for me too
[2022-02-23T08:59:52Z] <illiliti> lol
[2022-02-23T14:14:30Z] <omanom> https://web.archive.org/web/20170403190951/http://www.futurechips.org/thoughts-for-researchers/quick-post-linked-lists.html
[2022-02-23T14:29:54Z] <midfavila> reminds me of a video that computerphile did on the performance of linked lists versus arrays
[2022-02-23T14:30:15Z] <midfavila> the result was that on average linked lists either beat arrays or performed about the same as them
[2022-02-23T14:30:24Z] * midfavila shrugs
[2022-02-23T15:22:51Z] <illiliti> qemu with sdl2 doesn't work
[2022-02-23T15:23:07Z] <illiliti> it hangs at startup
[2022-02-23T15:23:55Z] <testuser[m]> works here
[2022-02-23T15:24:29Z] <testuser[m]> did u strace it
[2022-02-23T15:25:41Z] <illiliti> yep
[2022-02-23T15:25:44Z] <illiliti> it does poll with 0 timeout
[2022-02-23T15:25:53Z] <illiliti> it causes cpu spikes as well
[2022-02-23T15:26:13Z] <testuser[m]> inb4 udev related
[2022-02-23T15:27:48Z] <illiliti> don't think so
[2022-02-23T15:29:04Z] <illiliti> -nographic works btw
[2022-02-23T15:32:36Z] <illiliti> SDL_VIDEODRIVER=wayland ssu -p qemu-system-x86_64 -enable-kvm -m 4G -cdrom netbsd.iso -device virtio-scsi -drive file=netbsd.qcow2,if=virtio
[2022-02-23T15:33:28Z] <testuser[m]> why as root?
[2022-02-23T15:33:58Z] <illiliti> kvm
[2022-02-23T15:37:41Z] <illiliti> tried as non-root and it still hangs
[2022-02-23T15:40:19Z] <riteo> hiiiii!
[2022-02-23T15:40:28Z] <midfavila> Oh, long time no see, riteo.
[2022-02-23T15:40:29Z] <riteo> It's been quite a while, hasn't it?
[2022-02-23T15:40:35Z] <riteo> hiiii mid!
[2022-02-23T15:40:37Z] <riteo> I missed you
[2022-02-23T15:40:48Z] <midfavila> >.<
[2022-02-23T15:40:55Z] <testuser[m]> riteo: hi
[2022-02-23T15:40:58Z] <midfavila> Oh, one sec, clocksync from WWV
[2022-02-23T15:41:03Z] <riteo> hi testuser!
[2022-02-23T15:41:37Z] <riteo> how are things going, other than dylan disappearing from the public once again?
[2022-02-23T15:42:25Z] <midfavila> No idea wrt: KISS
[2022-02-23T15:42:32Z] <midfavila> I haven't used upstream in months
[2022-02-23T15:42:52Z] <midfavila> personally I guess I'm alright. Just slowly making progress on maths and CS, as usual. You?
[2022-02-23T15:44:04Z] <riteo> I've closed quite a lot of projects (minekiss and stuff) to focus on learning more C/C++
[2022-02-23T15:44:19Z] <riteo> I've also read a bit that C book I *ahem* found on the internet
[2022-02-23T15:44:32Z] <riteo> (only a little bit though, got distracted with other, more pratical stuff)
[2022-02-23T15:44:46Z] <riteo> the biggest thing I've been doing is porting Godot to Wayland
[2022-02-23T15:45:25Z] <midfavila> C is something I need to dedicate more time to. Ordered a bunch of books about Unix programming, so hopefully that'll give me ideas for good projects. What have you been reading?
[2022-02-23T15:45:25Z] <midfavila> Oh, that's neat. Has it been difficult?
[2022-02-23T15:45:40Z] <riteo> surprisingly, not that much
[2022-02-23T15:46:08Z] <riteo> I mean, it's still not done, but, ignoring weird limitation imposed by Wayland, I've been really liking the whole API-from-protocol thing
[2022-02-23T15:46:17Z] <riteo> s/limitation/limitations/
[2022-02-23T15:46:53Z] <riteo> people hate fragmentation, but I really like the idea of making everything a different protocol. People have different needs.
[2022-02-23T15:47:18Z] <midfavila> Hmm. I'm definitely in the opposite camp.
[2022-02-23T15:47:45Z] <midfavila> Ideally everything would use formatted text communicated via identical IPC mechanisms, at least in my opinion
[2022-02-23T15:48:17Z] <riteo> I don't see how that would go against the idea of different protocols for different things
[2022-02-23T15:48:54Z] <midfavila> Well, depends on how you define protocol, I guess - but fair enough.
[2022-02-23T15:49:45Z] <riteo> I haven't looked your website in a while, have you been collecting more weird hardware?
[2022-02-23T15:49:59Z] <midfavila> I considered it, but no, not as of late
[2022-02-23T15:50:16Z] <midfavila> http://laptop.pics/panasonic-toughbook-cf-m34/
[2022-02-23T15:50:36Z] <midfavila> was talking to a guy about two of these complete with dock, and then mid-negotiation he sold them to someone else
[2022-02-23T15:50:45Z] <riteo> oof
[2022-02-23T15:51:07Z] <riteo> lmao that "NOTHING'S THOUGHER" on top of that brick is really funny
[2022-02-23T15:51:24Z] * midfavila shrugs
[2022-02-23T15:51:33Z] <midfavila> I mean, they've stopped bullets, so it's kinda accurate
[2022-02-23T15:51:37Z] <midfavila> this exact model, I mean
[2022-02-23T15:51:42Z] <riteo> that's crazy
[2022-02-23T15:52:11Z] <midfavila> Yeah, an American soldier in Iraq had one stop a bullet from an enemy sniper back in 2003 or something
[2022-02-23T15:52:43Z] <midfavila> https://www.techradar.com/news/software/operating-systems/mobile-computing/laptops/heroic-laptop-takes-bullet-for-us-soldier-133972
[2022-02-23T15:53:34Z] <riteo> catgirl messed up, for some reason
[2022-02-23T15:53:48Z] <midfavila> they do that sometimes
[2022-02-23T15:53:51Z] <midfavila> give it a ball of yarn
[2022-02-23T15:54:13Z] * riteo gives catgirl a ball of yarn
[2022-02-23T15:54:54Z] <riteo> wow, that bullet thing could be quite an ad
[2022-02-23T15:55:14Z] <riteo> what repo are you using now?
[2022-02-23T15:55:15Z] <riteo> carbs?
[2022-02-23T15:55:21Z] <midfavila> Yeah, it's kinda serendipitous.
[2022-02-23T15:55:21Z] <midfavila> and no, I maintain my own base
[2022-02-23T15:55:27Z] <midfavila> although I need to go through and update some of the packages
[2022-02-23T15:55:56Z] <midfavila> might port Xenocara to replace XOrg at some point, too
[2022-02-23T15:56:23Z] <riteo> I see
[2022-02-23T15:56:33Z] <riteo> why not using rootless xorg?
[2022-02-23T15:57:08Z] <midfavila> ngl haven't looked into tech stuff much lately, so I'm just not informed about it
[2022-02-23T15:57:12Z] <midfavila> doesn't it require PAM or something?
[2022-02-23T15:57:33Z] <riteo> I have no idea actually, kiss linux allowed rootless xorg though
[2022-02-23T15:57:48Z] <riteo> I don't recall it depending on PAM
[2022-02-23T15:57:52Z] <midfavila> Guess I'll have to look into it. Apparently XDM doesn't like it
[2022-02-23T15:58:00Z] <midfavila> gives me a reason to take a crack at making a display manage
[2022-02-23T15:58:01Z] <midfavila> manager*
[2022-02-23T15:58:17Z] <riteo> talking about isolation from root, I found out that dylan's sway guide is kinda wrong
[2022-02-23T15:58:40Z] <midfavila> Oh?
[2022-02-23T15:58:45Z] <riteo> oooh, your own display manager? How are you gonna use common GUI apps?
[2022-02-23T15:58:58Z] <midfavila> Display manager is just the login screen :p
[2022-02-23T15:59:02Z] <riteo> oh
[2022-02-23T15:59:05Z] <midfavila> I don't like logging in from a tty
[2022-02-23T15:59:19Z] <riteo> it's kinda a mess, yeah, I understand that
[2022-02-23T15:59:38Z] <riteo> the guide issue is very minor, but potentially quite unsafe (not root escalation though)
[2022-02-23T15:59:57Z] <riteo> basically it says to put the user into the input group, which allows to bypass wayland's so famous window isolation
[2022-02-23T16:00:18Z] <riteo> libseat is made exactly to avoid that issue, but since dylan uses sway-tiny he probably didn't notice it
[2022-02-23T16:00:25Z] <midfavila> wayland btfo
[2022-02-23T16:00:43Z] <riteo> the solution is simply not to put the user there, and run seatd
[2022-02-23T16:00:59Z] <riteo> (which has to be already done on a normal sway install)
[2022-02-23T16:01:25Z] <midfavila> I see
[2022-02-23T16:01:53Z] <midfavila> Reminds me that I need to look into writing a window manager, too...
[2022-02-23T16:02:08Z] <riteo> what will you put in it?
[2022-02-23T16:02:16Z] <midfavila> literally nothing
[2022-02-23T16:02:28Z] <midfavila> i intend for it to implement the entirety of the EWMH and that's it
[2022-02-23T16:02:28Z] <riteo> I see
[2022-02-23T16:02:41Z] <midfavila> probably won't be a reparenting WM
[2022-02-23T16:02:51Z] <riteo> reparenting?
[2022-02-23T16:03:05Z] <midfavila> most WMs are reparenting, so they sit between X11 and clients
[2022-02-23T16:03:21Z] <midfavila> the WM intercepts requests from the client and from X11, and determines if they go through, are blocked, or are modified
[2022-02-23T16:03:28Z] <midfavila> usually it's done for the purposes of a window border
[2022-02-23T16:03:48Z] <midfavila> but it makes it rather difficult to handle windows using other programs without implementing some kind of bespoke protocol in the WM
[2022-02-23T16:04:19Z] <riteo> that's an interesting approach, the one you want to take
[2022-02-23T16:04:27Z] <midfavila> good illustration of this is using wmutils with dwm versus wmutils with anything else
[2022-02-23T16:04:47Z] <riteo> wait, dwm is not reparenting?
[2022-02-23T16:04:55Z] <midfavila> that's correct
[2022-02-23T16:05:10Z] <riteo> oh, that's interesting
[2022-02-23T16:06:00Z] <midfavila> Yeah. 9wm, which I also tried for a little while, *is*
[2022-02-23T16:06:11Z] <midfavila> But since its primitive operations on windows are so limited, it's... kinda hard to use
[2022-02-23T16:06:43Z] <midfavila> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Re-parenting_window_manager
[2022-02-23T16:06:58Z] <riteo> I had no idea wikipedia had a page for this
[2022-02-23T16:07:25Z] <midfavila> now you do
[2022-02-23T16:07:53Z] <riteo> wikipedia for some reason has pages for the weirdest or most "obvious" of things
[2022-02-23T16:07:56Z] <riteo> like use case
[2022-02-23T16:08:06Z] <riteo> why is there the need to have a whole page for "use case"
[2022-02-23T16:08:36Z] * midfavila shrugs
[2022-02-23T16:08:57Z] <riteo> oh wait, it might look at it in some weird technical sense
[2022-02-23T16:08:58Z] <riteo> whatever
[2022-02-23T16:11:17Z] <dKstv> Hi everyone
[2022-02-23T16:11:38Z] <riteo> hi!
[2022-02-23T16:16:15Z] <dKstv> Im new to kiss, enjoying it a lot so far
[2022-02-23T16:17:08Z] <illiliti> dilyn: fyi, people at wlroots are reworking libinput backend. not sure if it's related to the bug you have, but there's a possibility
[2022-02-23T17:08:26Z] <testuser[m]> C is the only sane language left. It never changes and it lets us write code that just works. We can focus on getting things done and shipping rather than learning new features and Googling compiler errors. Learn once, ship forever.
[2022-02-23T17:08:42Z] <testuser[m]> I almost had a heart attack when the twitter post stated that "true" and "false" are keywords in C23. However that seems incorrect.
[2022-02-23T17:08:42Z] <testuser[m]> On my last workplace we argued if we dared to use stdint.h, since it was so new and fancy. I was a proponent, but there is something calm over discussing whether to use 23 year old additions or not.
[2022-02-23T17:13:22Z] <illiliti> i wish we have go-style defer in c23
[2022-02-23T17:28:49Z] <rohan> hi guys
[2022-02-23T17:28:55Z] <rohan> any news about dylan?
[2022-02-23T17:29:04Z] <testuser[m]> Hi
[2022-02-23T17:29:05Z] <testuser[m]> No
[2022-02-23T17:29:06Z] <testuser[m]> But you know what? Something happened that changed my life. I bumped into a Rustacean. And another Rustacean. And a few more Rustaceans. I found five Rustaceans. And they showed me what they did to become Rustaceans. Again, it’s not just about jobs, it’s about the good programming; ergonomics, safety, zero cost abstractions and efficiency.
[2022-02-23T17:30:58Z] <rohan> lol
[2022-02-23T17:31:15Z] <rohan> rust compared to c++ is better?
[2022-02-23T17:31:33Z] <omanom> it's probably that i haven't used it very much / learned much about it... but rust is such a PITA to read and comprehend
[2022-02-23T17:31:51Z] <rohan> ive been thinking in learn rust for some projects
[2022-02-23T17:32:24Z] <rohan> but dont know if that be useful than other languages
[2022-02-23T17:32:52Z] <omanom> depends on the project and how you define "useful"
[2022-02-23T17:33:47Z] <rohan> not that big just some CLI programms
[2022-02-23T17:34:03Z] <rohan> for practice
[2022-02-23T17:35:15Z] <testuser[m]> Use rust or goolang
[2022-02-23T17:35:38Z] <illiliti> rust is no-go absolutely
[2022-02-23T17:35:56Z] <testuser[m]> Why
[2022-02-23T17:36:50Z] <illiliti> pita to bootstrap
[2022-02-23T17:37:07Z] <illiliti> extemely slow and inefficient build system
[2022-02-23T17:37:20Z] <rohan> anyone have a weston build out of the box?
[2022-02-23T17:37:22Z] <illiliti> "move fast and break things" TM
[2022-02-23T17:37:30Z] <rohan> need some to test my waydroid package
[2022-02-23T17:37:37Z] <midfavila> do they have non-x86 support yet
[2022-02-23T17:37:55Z] <midfavila> or is memory safety still limited to the high-reliability world of PCs
[2022-02-23T17:38:45Z] <omanom> https://doc.rust-lang.org/nightly/rustc/platform-support.html
[2022-02-23T17:39:14Z] <omanom> looks like no musl "tier 1"
[2022-02-23T17:39:17Z] <midfavila> lmao
[2022-02-23T17:39:17Z] <midfavila> at least they support arm64 now
[2022-02-23T17:39:44Z] <riteo> lmao
[2022-02-23T17:39:56Z] <riteo> how is that possible?
[2022-02-23T17:40:05Z] <midfavila> the power of rust
[2022-02-23T17:40:07Z] <midfavila> that's how
[2022-02-23T17:40:23Z] <riteo> amazing
[2022-02-23T17:40:24Z] <midfavila> C is dead, long live C
[2022-02-23T17:41:03Z] <omanom> musl is tier 2 looks like: "Tier 2 targets can be thought of as "guaranteed to build". The Rust project builds official binary releases for each tier 2 target, and automated builds ensure that each tier 2 target builds after each change. Automated tests are not always run so it's not guaranteed to produce a working build, but tier 2 targets often
[2022-02-23T17:41:04Z] <omanom> work to quite a good degree and patches are always welcome!"
[2022-02-23T17:41:48Z] <omanom> kind of sounds like "if it works, great, but we're not going to put any effort into it"
[2022-02-23T17:42:33Z] <midfavila> fucking cat keeps jumping on my desk when I'm trying to work
[2022-02-23T17:42:34Z] <midfavila> reeeeeeee
[2022-02-23T17:42:41Z] <testuser[m]> Send cat.jpg
[2022-02-23T17:42:43Z] <riteo> I don't understand, is there the possibility of them using GNU extensions?
[2022-02-23T17:43:03Z] <testuser[m]> Gnu extensions in what
[2022-02-23T17:43:08Z] <testuser[m]> Rust is in rust
[2022-02-23T17:43:19Z] <riteo> how can you possibly not support a correct libc?
[2022-02-23T17:43:28Z] <midfavila> because fuck you
[2022-02-23T17:43:33Z] <midfavila> you're not relevant
[2022-02-23T17:43:36Z] <midfavila> begone, brogrammer
[2022-02-23T17:43:50Z] <riteo> I thought it was about bootstrapping, how else would musl not be garaunteed to supported
[2022-02-23T17:44:10Z] <riteo> s/garaunteed to/ garaunteed to be/
[2022-02-23T17:45:16Z] <testuser[m]> What's the least worst alternative to c
[2022-02-23T17:45:33Z] <midfavila> lisp
[2022-02-23T17:45:34Z] <omanom> nim lol
[2022-02-23T17:45:35Z] <midfavila> or forth
[2022-02-23T17:45:40Z] <midfavila> or $lang
[2022-02-23T17:45:42Z] <midfavila> http://0x0.st/oK1T.jpg
[2022-02-23T17:45:44Z] <midfavila> anyway here
[2022-02-23T17:45:52Z] <riteo> >KIT
[2022-02-23T17:45:53Z] <midfavila> shit picture but this is the cat.jpg that was requested
[2022-02-23T17:46:11Z] <riteo> that's more than enough, thanks for your service
[2022-02-23T17:46:14Z] <midfavila> she just fuckin
[2022-02-23T17:46:17Z] <midfavila> comes in here at random
[2022-02-23T17:46:20Z] <testuser[m]> Bruh
[2022-02-23T17:46:20Z] <midfavila> and starts meowing at me
[2022-02-23T17:46:31Z] <midfavila> "MOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOW"
[2022-02-23T17:46:31Z] <midfavila> "MOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOW"
[2022-02-23T17:46:31Z] <midfavila> "MIAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAO"
[2022-02-23T17:46:46Z] <riteo> maybe she wants something, I've never had a cat
[2022-02-23T17:46:53Z] <midfavila> she wants attention lmao
[2022-02-23T17:46:53Z] <illiliti> zig is not bad, but it's over-engineered
[2022-02-23T17:47:01Z] <testuser[m]> Is that a button phone thingy on charging
[2022-02-23T17:47:14Z] <midfavila> it's called a "blackberry" and yes
[2022-02-23T17:47:20Z] <omanom> i guess we're all just waiting for drewlang
[2022-02-23T17:47:30Z] <illiliti> indeed
[2022-02-23T17:47:30Z] <testuser[m]> Zig seems good but it's not stable yet and syntax is pretty shit like rust
[2022-02-23T17:47:34Z] <illiliti> looks promising
[2022-02-23T17:47:34Z] <noocsharp> help me design nooc and we can make it the least bad alternative for c
[2022-02-23T17:47:42Z] <riteo> omanom is that a codename?
[2022-02-23T17:47:47Z] <testuser[m]> Drewlang seems similar to zig
[2022-02-23T17:48:08Z] <testuser[m]> midfavila: does it run android
[2022-02-23T17:48:11Z] <midfavila> no
[2022-02-23T17:48:13Z] <midfavila> it runs QNX
[2022-02-23T17:48:25Z] <riteo> > no
[2022-02-23T17:48:26Z] <omanom> @riteo i don't think he's given it a name yet
[2022-02-23T17:48:26Z] <riteo> based
[2022-02-23T17:48:30Z] <riteo> yes he did
[2022-02-23T17:48:35Z] <riteo> but he asked to keep it secret
[2022-02-23T17:48:39Z] <midfavila> i'm going to be ordering a pinephone here in a bit
[2022-02-23T17:48:43Z] <midfavila> once they're available again
[2022-02-23T17:48:43Z] <omanom> oh then i don't know what the name is
[2022-02-23T17:48:48Z] <riteo> there's also a website for it, with draft docs and whatever
[2022-02-23T17:48:59Z] <noocsharp> drewlang is much simpler than zig, but it has some weird things built-in to the language
[2022-02-23T17:49:19Z] <testuser[m]> riteo: https://termbin.com/iy53
[2022-02-23T17:49:38Z] <midfavila> if I could get away with it i'd buy one of those clusterboards and use it as my main PC, too
[2022-02-23T17:49:41Z] <testuser[m]> midfavila: what stuff can u do on qnx
[2022-02-23T17:49:49Z] <riteo> testuser great copypasta, I'll still keep using it lmao
[2022-02-23T17:50:02Z] <midfavila> testuser[m]: anything you can on a regular Unix
[2022-02-23T17:50:13Z] <midfavila> albeit sans root, because muh soycurity
[2022-02-23T17:50:21Z] <midfavila> i used to have a complete GNU userland on my phone
[2022-02-23T17:50:25Z] <riteo> I'm not sure honestly whether drewlang will become more famous as a general purpose language than other C alternatives
[2022-02-23T17:50:27Z] <testuser[m]> What browser does it run
[2022-02-23T17:50:34Z] <midfavila> webkit c. 2014
[2022-02-23T17:50:45Z] <testuser[m]> But vro sekurity
[2022-02-23T17:50:47Z] <testuser[m]> 2014
[2022-02-23T17:50:55Z] <midfavila> it's enough for me to use ebay and check my banking info /shrug
[2022-02-23T17:50:56Z] <omanom> his (original) goal was for it to be a systems programming language, rather than a general purpose one
[2022-02-23T17:51:27Z] <riteo> I doubt that many people waiting for it are system programmers
[2022-02-23T17:52:45Z] <noocsharp> i would want a high degree of control in a systems programming language, which **** doesn't seem to provide
[2022-02-23T17:52:47Z] <omanom> well its sort of like calling rust a systems programming language yet people are using it to write CLI system info fetch tools
[2022-02-23T17:53:37Z] <noocsharp> i want to be able to create typesafe constructs using a possibly non-typesafe superset of the language
[2022-02-23T17:54:04Z] <noocsharp> but dynamic arrays and unions are built-in to the syntax of the language, rather than implemented in **** as a library or something
[2022-02-23T17:54:34Z] <riteo> I wonder why, that also makes the whole "static standard" idea harder to do properly
[2022-02-23T17:54:42Z] <testuser[m]> I want C with RAII and templates
[2022-02-23T17:55:10Z] <riteo> doesn't RAII add unexpected code execution?
[2022-02-23T17:56:16Z] <noocsharp> not if you're aware of it
[2022-02-23T17:56:24Z] <testuser[m]> Zero cost abstraction vroo
[2022-02-23T17:57:06Z] <riteo> IMO, the best standard structure is one which has an extremely basic but basically frozen core, slowly going up in complexity with different extension outside of it
[2022-02-23T17:57:17Z] <riteo> kinda like (very roughly) RISC or Wayland
[2022-02-23T17:57:54Z] <riteo> although RISC has "official" extensions
[2022-02-23T17:57:57Z] <riteo> IIRC
[2022-02-23T17:58:40Z] <noocsharp> that's essentially want i want to do with my language
[2022-02-23T17:58:49Z] <riteo> ooh, nooc is a real thing?
[2022-02-23T17:59:00Z] <riteo> from the context I thought it was a joke, sorry
[2022-02-23T17:59:10Z] <riteo> could you tell me more about it?
[2022-02-23T17:59:20Z] <testuser[m]> noocsharp: i thought it was a c coompiler
[2022-02-23T17:59:24Z] <testuser[m]> As of C++20, the right way to write a trivial getter in C++ looks like [[nodiscard]] constexpr auto GetFoo() const noexcept -> Foo { return foo_; }
[2022-02-23T17:59:31Z] <noocsharp> it's basically a (crappy) toy compiler atm
[2022-02-23T17:59:54Z] <noocsharp> https://github.com/noocsharp/nooc
[2022-02-23T18:00:05Z] <riteo> have you thought about using QBE as the backend?
[2022-02-23T18:00:19Z] <riteo> at least for testing
[2022-02-23T18:00:43Z] <noocsharp> i've thought about it
[2022-02-23T18:01:01Z] <noocsharp> what i'm probably gonna do with it is make it into an interpreter, and then write a compiler as a library in nooc
[2022-02-23T18:01:36Z] <riteo> as a bootstrapping method or as a core language feature?
[2022-02-23T18:01:52Z] <noocsharp> well there
[2022-02-23T18:02:13Z] <noocsharp> 's this language called jai which does a similar thing
[2022-02-23T18:02:36Z] <noocsharp> except the compiler is implemented in the interpreter
[2022-02-23T18:02:52Z] <riteo> mhhh, I see
[2022-02-23T18:03:00Z] <riteo> so that'd make it both an interpreted and compiled language
[2022-02-23T18:03:07Z] <noocsharp> the idea is you have a build "script" written in nooc which calls the compiler library
[2022-02-23T18:03:17Z] <riteo> that's a very interesting approach, but won't it make the compiler very slow?
[2022-02-23T18:03:50Z] <noocsharp> i'll worry about that if it actually becomes a problem
[2022-02-23T18:04:07Z] <noocsharp> and if i get that far
[2022-02-23T18:04:10Z] <riteo> but it's bound to be slow, isn't it?
[2022-02-23T18:04:22Z] <illiliti> i'm shocked that in 2022 we still don't have a portable way to set symbol visibility
[2022-02-23T18:04:28Z] <illiliti> i wish c23(or posix) do something about this
[2022-02-23T18:05:22Z] <noocsharp> it's gonna be a pretty lightweight bytecode interpreter and a pretty small core compiler
[2022-02-23T18:05:41Z] <riteo> wait wait wait
[2022-02-23T18:05:44Z] <riteo> bytecode?
[2022-02-23T18:05:55Z] <noocsharp> that's how interpreters generally work
[2022-02-23T18:06:13Z] <riteo> oh, as a preloading step I supposed
[2022-02-23T18:06:16Z] <riteo> s/supposed/suppose/
[2022-02-23T18:06:30Z] <riteo> I thought it was going to be bytecode compiled manually before running
[2022-02-23T18:06:43Z] <riteo> if it does that after parsing the script then it makes sense
[2022-02-23T18:06:53Z] <noocsharp> no, the compiler will compile to native code
[2022-02-23T18:07:17Z] <riteo> I see
[2022-02-23T18:08:05Z] <noocsharp> but most of this is hypothetical at this point, right now i just have a compiler written in c which compiles to amd64 machine code
[2022-02-23T18:08:15Z] <riteo> well, gotta start somewhere
[2022-02-23T18:13:30Z] <testuser[m]> "Just put namespaces in C" YOU just put namespaces in C, goddamnit. It's hard enough getting existing practice used by 5+ compilers past the Committee, do you know what it fucking takes to put a WHOLE FEATURE in, that people DO NOT understand???
[2022-02-23T18:15:33Z] <riteo> what happened
[2022-02-23T18:15:46Z] <riteo> why is C23 getting talked about so much lately, is it a fresh thing?
[2022-02-23T18:16:02Z] <riteo> even while looking at cproc it talks about c23 features
[2022-02-23T18:17:01Z] <riteo> omg are we sure that the `true`,`false` keyword thing was wrong?
[2022-02-23T18:17:05Z] <riteo> wikipedia cites it https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/C2x
[2022-02-23T18:17:22Z] <riteo> s/cites/mentions/
[2022-02-23T18:17:29Z] <riteo> italian moment
[2022-02-23T18:17:55Z] <riteo> oh wait, it exists in english
[2022-02-23T18:17:57Z] <omanom> https://thephd.dev/c-the-improvements-june-september-virtual-c-meeting
[2022-02-23T18:18:15Z] <omanom> there's supposedly another features update planned soon?
[2022-02-23T18:20:45Z] <riteo> actually this new revision doesn't sound that bad (ignoring true/false, if that's true)
[2022-02-23T18:20:52Z] <riteo> quite the opposite
[2022-02-23T18:26:23Z] <noocsharp> what's the problem with true and false being keywords?
[2022-02-23T18:30:56Z] <riteo> if they map to integers, hide their real value
[2022-02-23T18:31:08Z] <riteo> if they don't, they add a new type into the core, if there isn't already a bool
[2022-02-23T18:33:58Z] <noocsharp> stdbool.h already hides their real value
[2022-02-23T18:34:46Z] <riteo> yes, but it's a library
[2022-02-23T18:34:53Z] <riteo> it's optional, and at discretion of the user
[2022-02-23T18:37:55Z] <noocsharp> yeah, wouldn't want to pollute my prestine programming language with bloated built-in booleans
[2022-02-23T18:39:54Z] <riteo> bruh, those aren't full-fledged booleans
[2022-02-23T18:40:30Z] <riteo> are constants that can be added in an extremely trivial way
[2022-02-23T18:41:00Z] <riteo> s/^are/they are/
[2022-02-23T18:41:22Z] <illiliti> testuser[m]: which version of sway are you using?
[2022-02-23T18:50:21Z] <dilyn> illiliti: have you tried using -display sdl in your qemu invocation? qemu with just sdl2 works perfectly fine for me; I just specify -display sdl -vga virtio to get dynamic resizing
[2022-02-23T18:51:01Z] <dilyn> also ofc they would be rewriting libinput backend for wlroots smdh. I suppose I just have to play the waiting game; I feel like there's no sufficiently good reason to backport these patches to pre-0.15
[2022-02-23T18:51:08Z] <testuser[m]> illiliti: ee7668c1f2b5ba31420d972161d6d43fc1c84bb4
[2022-02-23T18:54:59Z] <illiliti> dilyn: yep, tried that. nothing is working
[2022-02-23T18:56:17Z] <dilyn> that's very interesting. especially since I don't even have to invoke root to launch my qemu machines...
[2022-02-23T18:57:23Z] <illiliti> try -enable-kvm and you will need root or rw for /dev/kvm
[2022-02-23T18:57:51Z] <dilyn> ah yes I am in the kvm group
[2022-02-23T18:57:55Z] <dilyn> forgot about that
[2022-02-23T18:58:13Z] <dilyn> are you just building qemu with the standard recipe?
[2022-02-23T18:58:37Z] <illiliti> yes
[2022-02-23T18:59:03Z] <dilyn> curiouser and curiouser
[2022-02-23T18:59:16Z] <illiliti> i even tried downgrading it to 6.1.0 and 6.0.0. neither is working
[2022-02-23T19:00:19Z] <illiliti> gonna rebuild everything with -O0 -ggdb and debug
[2022-02-23T19:00:33Z] <dilyn> XD all in
[2022-02-23T19:00:53Z] <dilyn> might as well; I'm not certain what could be wrong. by all measures my system should be completely broken and yet...
[2022-02-23T19:01:29Z] <midfavila> that's a mood
[2022-02-23T19:04:13Z] <dilyn> *cries in ffast-math*
[2022-02-23T19:06:17Z] <testuser[m]> funroll all loops
[2022-02-23T19:14:10Z] <midfavila> wish I could recompile myself with -ffast-math
[2022-02-23T19:14:10Z] <midfavila> smh
[2022-02-23T19:14:53Z] <dilyn> sometimes I think I was built with ffast-math
[2022-02-23T19:15:00Z] <dilyn> I didn't understand most of my senior thesis:'(
[2022-02-23T19:20:35Z] <jslick> rohan learn all the languages that you are interested in. Don't let these people dissuade you. Unless you are doing it for something specific. The overlap of peoples' opinions of what makes a good programming language here is probably very narrow.
[2022-02-23T19:24:12Z] <rohan> jslick thanks for advice
[2022-02-23T19:27:07Z] <omanom> except java
[2022-02-23T19:54:20Z] <rohan> java i agree
[2022-02-23T19:54:29Z] <rohan> i just need it for flutter
[2022-02-23T19:54:35Z] <rohan> and SDK tools
[2022-02-23T20:25:43Z] <riteo> well, it's been fun, I'll go for now, bye!
[2022-02-23T20:53:43Z] <midfavila> bluuuuuuuuh
[2022-02-23T20:53:54Z] <midfavila> lang keeps kicking my ass
[2022-02-23T20:53:59Z] <midfavila> how do I become not shit at math dilyn
[2022-02-23T21:05:50Z] <dilyn> choose a different sub-topic /shrug
[2022-02-23T21:05:59Z] <dilyn> maths is difficult to be good at. I'm not very good at it
[2022-02-23T21:06:15Z] <dilyn> I'm a far better logician than an Analyst, I'm a far better teacher than a student
[2022-02-23T21:10:26Z] <midfavila> fuck
[2022-02-23T21:11:39Z] <phoebos> wow git-add(1) has an interactive mode
[2022-02-23T21:11:43Z] <phoebos> wild
[2022-02-23T21:11:50Z] <phoebos> o/ all
[2022-02-23T21:11:56Z] <phoebos> busy in here today for once
[2022-02-23T21:30:13Z] <Guest93> Hi
[2022-02-23T21:30:14Z] <Guest93> Is it possible to install the nouveau driver on Kiss Linux?
[2022-02-23T21:32:17Z] <dilyn> testuser[m]: ^