gemini - kennedy.gemi.dev

💾 Archived View for gemini.ctrl-c.club › ~phoebos › logs › kisslinux-2021-12-16.txt captured on 2024-05-12 at 16:03:43.
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[2021-12-16T00:01:19Z] <dilyn> they just wanted to toy with it and prefer apt as a package manager
[2021-12-16T01:09:23Z] <phinxy> Looks like firefox is getting built with gcc and g++.  Or is it just me?
[2021-12-16T01:10:00Z] <dilyn> what do you mean?
[2021-12-16T01:10:17Z] <dilyn> were you expecting something else?
[2021-12-16T01:11:33Z] <phinxy> I expected clang and llvm
[2021-12-16T01:12:34Z] <phinxy> like so: https://gitlab.com/librewolf-community/browser/linux/-/blob/master/scripts/3_Configure_Source_Code.sh#L111-115
[2021-12-16T01:13:49Z] <dilyn> https://gitlab.com/librewolf-community/browser/linux/-/blob/master/scripts/3_Configure_Source_Code.sh#L89
[2021-12-16T01:13:55Z] <dilyn> so yes, one could do it
[2021-12-16T01:17:06Z] <phinxy> I tried to build firefox without clang/llvm but build script would not pass configuration.  `ERROR: Could not find clang to generate run bindings for C/C++`
[2021-12-16T02:09:57Z] <acheam> dilyn: whats your work situation? Did you get a new job?
[2021-12-16T02:22:57Z] <phinxy> How much time does the new feature of having a VERSION variable in sources save for the package manager(s?)?  I felt that it was cumbersome to instead of simply copying the URL, having to edit it first, when "checking out" the sources.
[2021-12-16T02:23:34Z] <acheam> not very much
[2021-12-16T02:23:41Z] <acheam> its a very controversial feature in this channel
[2021-12-16T02:23:58Z] <dilyn> acheam: I work at canonical now!
[2021-12-16T02:24:11Z] <acheam> I cant tell if you're joking or not
[2021-12-16T02:24:38Z] <dilyn> phinxy: iirc it requires both for *reasons*; mozilla devs are under the impression it builds better and faster with clang
[2021-12-16T02:24:42Z] <dilyn> i am not joking acheam
[2021-12-16T02:24:49Z] <dilyn> I'm in the canonical org on github
[2021-12-16T02:26:01Z] <acheam> hmm cant verify that.... but I believe you
[2021-12-16T02:26:04Z] <acheam> thats cool
[2021-12-16T02:26:06Z] <acheam> whats your role?
[2021-12-16T02:26:17Z] <tleydxdy[m]> oh sweet
[2021-12-16T02:26:22Z] <dilyn> IoT field engineer
[2021-12-16T02:26:51Z] <tleydxdy[m]> * can you tell them to fix the package manager? * XD
[2021-12-16T02:26:56Z] <acheam> nice
[2021-12-16T02:27:02Z] <dilyn> what's wrong with it :o
[2021-12-16T02:27:08Z] <dilyn> I mean, it's complicated certainly
[2021-12-16T02:27:13Z] <dilyn> I'm not the biggest fan of dpkg
[2021-12-16T02:27:13Z] <acheam> you must have had some nice stories to tell in the interview
[2021-12-16T02:27:16Z] <dilyn> but it's functional
[2021-12-16T02:27:24Z] <dilyn> they were very interested in KISS:P
[2021-12-16T02:27:29Z] <tleydxdy[m]> when I was trying to uninstall a version of the kernel
[2021-12-16T02:27:48Z] <tleydxdy[m]> it will want to pull in the same version just "unsigned"
[2021-12-16T02:27:51Z] <acheam> apt-managed kernels can be a pain
[2021-12-16T02:27:57Z] <acheam> dilyn: how long have you been working there?
[2021-12-16T02:28:05Z] <tleydxdy[m]> so I have to specify that on the remove line too
[2021-12-16T02:28:08Z] <dilyn> yeah I mean honestly I would just uninstall the kernel and use my own on any distribution at this point
[2021-12-16T02:28:19Z] <dilyn> since september!
[2021-12-16T02:28:25Z] <dilyn> I feel like we've talked about this before
[2021-12-16T02:28:37Z] <acheam> nope
[2021-12-16T02:28:39Z] <acheam> this is news to me
[2021-12-16T02:29:08Z] <dilyn> ah you weren't here for it
[2021-12-16T02:29:18Z] <acheam> congrats though! Thats a really cool role at an interesting company
[2021-12-16T02:29:25Z] <dilyn> absolutely!:D
[2021-12-16T02:29:30Z] <tleydxdy[m]> also the whole thing about install A, pulls in BCD, apt purge --aauto-remove A, BCD doesn't get removed
[2021-12-16T02:29:31Z] <dilyn> i'm very excited about it
[2021-12-16T02:29:50Z] <dilyn> to be fair tleydxdy, dependencies are hard :v
[2021-12-16T02:30:00Z] <tleydxdy[m]> yeah
[2021-12-16T02:30:01Z] <dilyn> kiss just shits the bed a lot of times on that sort of thing
[2021-12-16T02:30:42Z] <acheam> So are you running lots of Ubuntu boxes now? There must have been a decent learning curve learning a whole new set of IoT software and stuff
[2021-12-16T02:31:13Z] <tleydxdy[m]> I'm trying to learn zig, and I think writing a kiss like package manager may be cool
[2021-12-16T02:31:38Z] <tleydxdy[m]> I wondered how does ubuntu work on IoT
[2021-12-16T02:31:43Z] <acheam> Add it to the list of kiss-compatible package managers :)
[2021-12-16T02:31:57Z] <tleydxdy[m]> it doesn't go very small
[2021-12-16T02:32:25Z] <tleydxdy[m]> I would think something like kiss would fit better tbh
[2021-12-16T02:32:53Z] <dilyn> I just have a laptop running on Kubuntu along with some virtual machines on my desktop that I fire up to build things/test
[2021-12-16T02:33:01Z] <acheam> nice
[2021-12-16T02:33:07Z] <acheam> so what are you actually doing?
[2021-12-16T02:33:16Z] <dilyn> A steep-ish learning curve to get up to speed on Ubuntu Core and that whole suite of things, which is Canonical's IoT offering
[2021-12-16T02:33:50Z] <dilyn> I basically answer technical questions from people internally and externally about Core/snaps/etc, provide training on building snaps, research hardware requirements, etc
[2021-12-16T02:34:02Z] <dilyn> have you ever seen office space?
[2021-12-16T02:34:10Z] <tleydxdy[m]> haha
[2021-12-16T02:34:48Z] <dilyn> I'm kind of like this guy https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hNuu9CpdjIo
[2021-12-16T02:34:56Z] <dilyn> but more important :V
[2021-12-16T02:35:40Z] <acheam> lmaooo
[2021-12-16T02:36:31Z] <tleydxdy[m]> I just started working properly, and it's  kinda grim sometimes
[2021-12-16T02:36:49Z] <tleydxdy[m]> dealing with teams, outlook
[2021-12-16T02:36:53Z] <tleydxdy[m]> oh my
[2021-12-16T02:38:06Z] <dilyn> ew:X
[2021-12-16T02:38:17Z] <dilyn> getting a real job kinda womps eh
[2021-12-16T02:39:13Z] <tleydxdy[m]> yeah, when I'm interning at suse I was using parabola and rocking just fine
[2021-12-16T02:39:47Z] <tleydxdy[m]> they gave me a crusty thinkpad dug out of the office dumpster
[2021-12-16T02:39:58Z] <dilyn> unbelievable
[2021-12-16T02:40:01Z] <tleydxdy[m]> and it was the best machine I've ever had
[2021-12-16T02:40:02Z] <dilyn> smh shame on u suse
[2021-12-16T02:40:05Z] <dilyn> LMAO
[2021-12-16T02:40:19Z] <dilyn> Yeah I mean I'm using a 2014 MBP
[2021-12-16T02:40:24Z] <tleydxdy[m]> no non-free software of any kind on there
[2021-12-16T02:40:43Z] <dilyn> luckily enough a lot of my work atm is online-only so I can get by just using my desktop
[2021-12-16T02:41:21Z] <dilyn> though to do it I did have to taint my perfect-almost-gpl-free machine with gross GPL code:(
[2021-12-16T02:41:41Z] <tleydxdy[m]> dilyn: it's kinda hard to get laptop on short notice it turns out
[2021-12-16T02:41:55Z] <dilyn> :V
[2021-12-16T02:42:09Z] <dilyn> still hard to get any sort of hardware period:'(
[2021-12-16T02:42:37Z] <noocsharp> jedavies: it appears that libtasn1 is a dependency of qemu
[2021-12-16T02:42:54Z] <tleydxdy[m]> gotta smoke those clouds
[2021-12-16T02:50:31Z] <noocsharp> my next laptop is gonna be a framework
[2021-12-16T02:50:42Z] <noocsharp> if it's still around in 20 years when my current laptop dies
[2021-12-16T02:52:18Z] <tleydxdy[m]> lol
[2021-12-16T02:58:59Z] <acheam> ew what did you have to install dilyn?
[2021-12-16T02:59:07Z] <acheam> do they make you run proprietary software?
[2021-12-16T02:59:26Z] <acheam> one thing that did surprise me hardware wise was that I was just able to buy a 500gb NVME SSD for $50
[2021-12-16T03:00:21Z] <dilyn> just a copy of Ubuntu and mattermost
[2021-12-16T03:00:32Z] <dilyn> all FOSS here
[2021-12-16T03:01:17Z] <acheam> nice
[2021-12-16T03:01:26Z] <acheam> honestly not what I would have expected from canonical
[2021-12-16T03:02:10Z] <dilyn> really??
[2021-12-16T03:02:12Z] <dilyn> why not?
[2021-12-16T03:02:15Z] <dilyn> they're a foss company
[2021-12-16T03:02:29Z] <acheam> proprietary software built into ubuntu, and snap backend
[2021-12-16T03:02:41Z] <acheam> whats the mattermost desktop app written in? electron?
[2021-12-16T03:02:53Z] <tleydxdy[m]> interesting
[2021-12-16T03:03:24Z] <tleydxdy[m]> I can't figure out what's canonicals revenue stream
[2021-12-16T03:03:42Z] <tleydxdy[m]> for suse it's pretty much private cloud
[2021-12-16T03:04:49Z] <tleydxdy[m]> the office I was in is using mostly windows
[2021-12-16T03:04:53Z] <acheam> dilyn: do you have to use bazaar?
[2021-12-16T03:05:03Z] <tleydxdy[m]> only the engineers had linux
[2021-12-16T03:05:37Z] <dilyn> lolwut? no
[2021-12-16T03:05:56Z] <dilyn> what's proprietary that's built into snapd? :thinking:
[2021-12-16T03:06:10Z] <dilyn> the only thing proprietary about snap is the snap store
[2021-12-16T03:06:19Z] <dilyn> I assume mattermost is an electron app
[2021-12-16T03:08:03Z] <acheam> yeah snap store is what I meant
[2021-12-16T03:08:42Z] <dilyn> yeah but that's not open source for similar reasons to why launchpad wasn't open source for years
[2021-12-16T03:09:42Z] <acheam> enlighten me?
[2021-12-16T03:09:54Z] <testuser[m]> Hi
[2021-12-16T03:11:33Z] <noocsharp> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Launchpad_(website)#Transition_to_free_software
[2021-12-16T03:11:44Z] <noocsharp> hi testuser[m] 
[2021-12-16T03:13:11Z] <dilyn> Marks' talked about it before iirc
[2021-12-16T03:13:17Z] <dilyn> popey talked about it here https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x8MgktKqjsU
[2021-12-16T03:13:52Z] <dilyn> basically everyone called for launchpad to be open-sourced for years and years, and even today there is only one instance of launchpad in the world: ours. Negligible patches have been sent upstream for it
[2021-12-16T03:14:30Z] <dilyn> so ultimately, what's the point of open-sourcing it if 1) nobody is going to use it, 2) there won't be any benefits for any users in the form of patches, and 3) it will cost an exorbitant number of resources?
[2021-12-16T03:14:58Z] <noocsharp> what resources does it cost to open-source something?
[2021-12-16T03:15:02Z] <noocsharp> you just publish the source
[2021-12-16T03:15:12Z] <noocsharp> you don't have to accept contributions
[2021-12-16T03:16:28Z] <acheam> ^
[2021-12-16T03:16:42Z] <acheam> thats the same excuse that wolfram alpha uses
[2021-12-16T03:17:33Z] <acheam> it literally just takes a single link to a tarball and a file with some special text in it
[2021-12-16T03:18:16Z] <acheam> the point of open sourcing it is so that users dont have to run nonfree javascript
[2021-12-16T03:18:25Z] <acheam> I wouldnt mind a proprietary backend as long as the frontend is free
[2021-12-16T03:18:26Z] <tleydxdy[m]> everything should be free :)
[2021-12-16T03:19:21Z] <dilyn> i mean i have no idea what work is involved in doing such a thing
[2021-12-16T03:19:43Z] <dilyn> presumably you'd want to clean your code at a minimum before release, so that's paying multiple engineers to do potentially months of refactoring work...
[2021-12-16T03:19:55Z] <acheam> why though
[2021-12-16T03:19:57Z] <acheam> thats not needed
[2021-12-16T03:20:01Z] <tleydxdy[m]> it's expensive if say they have other code they don't want to release as free
[2021-12-16T03:20:14Z] <noocsharp> if you're embarrassed about the state of your bad code, that's your problem
[2021-12-16T03:20:15Z] <dilyn> because then every person who never cared anyways will just add it to their list of reasons to shit on canonical lmao
[2021-12-16T03:20:22Z] <tleydxdy[m]> or they don't own the rights to
[2021-12-16T03:20:24Z] <dilyn> "they can't even right good code look at this spaghetti crap"
[2021-12-16T03:20:37Z] <acheam> they cant even right good english either aparently :)
[2021-12-16T03:20:46Z] <dilyn> I mean yes it should be fixed, but like... that costs money. we're not volunteers xD
[2021-12-16T03:20:54Z] <dilyn> :O
[2021-12-16T03:20:59Z] <acheam> jkjk
[2021-12-16T03:21:03Z] <dilyn> :(
[2021-12-16T03:21:11Z] <acheam> :)
[2021-12-16T03:21:53Z] <noocsharp> sounds like an excuse to write bad code and then hide it from people
[2021-12-16T03:21:53Z] <tleydxdy[m]> let's just say it should have been free before it was even built
[2021-12-16T03:23:41Z] <noocsharp> jesus, how many variations of mips are there
[2021-12-16T03:24:13Z] <noocsharp> what even is hppa
[2021-12-16T03:25:13Z] <dilyn> lol
[2021-12-16T03:25:23Z] <dilyn> if you want an open source snapstore: https://github.com/freetocompute/kebe
[2021-12-16T03:25:38Z] <acheam> dilyn: your websites out of date
[2021-12-16T03:25:52Z] <acheam> hmm thanks for sharing
[2021-12-16T03:26:07Z] <noocsharp> wow can't even right english
[2021-12-16T03:26:22Z] <noocsharp> smh my head
[2021-12-16T03:26:26Z] <dilyn> what's wrong with my website?
[2021-12-16T03:27:06Z] <testuser[m]> Yes
[2021-12-16T03:27:07Z] <dilyn> "After a year, I recommenced the job search, and six
[2021-12-16T03:27:07Z] <dilyn> months later got a job at major bank. It's fine, but I yearn for something more
[2021-12-16T03:27:08Z] <dilyn> productive, hands-on, and educational." ?
[2021-12-16T03:27:18Z] <noocsharp> it's 2022 but you're website is copyright 2021
[2021-12-16T03:27:27Z] <dilyn> > 2022
[2021-12-16T03:27:31Z] <dilyn> :thinking:
[2021-12-16T03:36:16Z] <noocsharp> yay, i can run mips, mips64, mipsel, mipsn32, and mipsn32el programs now
[2021-12-16T03:37:16Z] <testuser[m]> Rich
[2021-12-16T03:51:31Z] <dilyn> speaking of rich...
[2021-12-16T03:51:32Z] <dilyn> https://github.com/u-root/u-root
[2021-12-16T03:51:39Z] <dilyn> this was a cute project i stumbled across today
[2021-12-16T04:04:10Z] <noocsharp> neat
[2021-12-16T04:28:33Z] <acheam> dilyn: yeah thats what I waas referring to
[2021-12-16T04:28:58Z] <acheam> kiss u-root when?
[2021-12-16T04:29:09Z] <acheam> actually u-root + king would be cool 
[2021-12-16T04:29:16Z] <acheam> a very golang system
[2021-12-16T04:30:28Z] <testuser[m]> king is ded
[2021-12-16T04:30:49Z] <acheam> the king is dead
[2021-12-16T04:30:51Z] <acheam> long live the king
[2021-12-16T04:32:08Z] <acheam> welp
[2021-12-16T04:32:13Z] <acheam> thats what you get for using Google's language
[2021-12-16T04:32:24Z] <acheam> unless you're fine going through all the hoops to contribute
[2021-12-16T04:33:44Z] <testuser[m]> Go is good otherwise
[2021-12-16T04:33:47Z] <testuser[m]> But poogleware
[2021-12-16T04:37:33Z] <acheam> ye
[2021-12-16T04:42:03Z] <testuser[m]> What u think of zig acheam 
[2021-12-16T04:44:01Z] <acheam> as a language its cool
[2021-12-16T04:44:07Z] <acheam> not a fan that it depends on C++ to build
[2021-12-16T04:44:17Z] <acheam> I've never really played around with it though
[2021-12-16T04:44:34Z] <acheam> The only thing I would use it for is river
[2021-12-16T04:45:14Z] <testuser[m]> acheam: Doesn't it just need lolvm?
[2021-12-16T04:45:24Z] <acheam> it needs a c++ compiler to bootstrap
[2021-12-16T04:45:38Z] <acheam> in addition to the compiler being built on llvm
[2021-12-16T04:45:44Z] <acheam> which I guess makes c++ a dependency anyways
[2021-12-16T04:46:06Z] <acheam> but I understand why LLVM was chosen, and it makes sense
[2021-12-16T04:47:27Z] <noocsharp> i'm pretty sure they're working on a self-hosted one
[2021-12-16T04:48:25Z] <acheam>  they are
[2021-12-16T04:49:57Z] <noocsharp> i'm not a big fan of zig just because it's very ugly
[2021-12-16T04:50:58Z] <acheam> i dont understand this whole "zig compiles C" thing though... seems unnecesary?
[2021-12-16T04:51:00Z] <testuser[m]> go is probably the least ugly modern lang
[2021-12-16T04:51:09Z] <testuser[m]> acheam: zig cc is useful for cross compiling
[2021-12-16T04:51:22Z] <acheam> how so?
[2021-12-16T04:52:30Z] <noocsharp> you can cross compile for any supported platform without building a cross compiler
[2021-12-16T04:52:59Z] <acheam> oh that is nice
[2021-12-16T04:53:22Z] <noocsharp> not sure why that isn't standard
[2021-12-16T04:53:54Z] <noocsharp> the whole idea of cross compilers is kind of ridiculous given that the only difference is the backend
[2021-12-16T04:55:59Z] <acheam> fix it in your compiler :)
[2021-12-16T04:57:24Z] <noocsharp> as soon as returning values works and register allocation isn't completely broken
[2021-12-16T04:58:12Z] <testuser[m]> Soon
[2021-12-16T04:58:14Z] <noocsharp> that's why i just built qemu, so maybe i can start working on other arch support
[2021-12-16T04:59:01Z] <noocsharp> i want to do it early so i don't get to a point where adding it is painful
[2021-12-16T05:01:40Z] <acheam> noocsharp: how much have you used serenetyos?
[2021-12-16T05:02:09Z] <noocsharp> 30 minutes, mostly playing spider solitaire
[2021-12-16T05:02:30Z] <acheam> nice
[2021-12-16T05:03:54Z] <acheam> I'm thinking of throwing it onto an old thinkpad I have laying around
[2021-12-16T05:04:18Z] <noocsharp> cool, didn't know it boots on real hardware
[2021-12-16T05:04:25Z] <acheam> https://github.com/SerenityOS/serenity/blob/master/Documentation/BareMetalInstallation.md
[2021-12-16T05:04:40Z] <testuser[m]> https://www.phoronix.com/scan.php?page=news_item&px=X.Org-Server-21.1.2
[2021-12-16T05:05:12Z] <acheam> nice
[2021-12-16T05:07:32Z] <noocsharp> sounds like an april fools joke
[2021-12-16T05:28:20Z] <acheam> We should all just live in the framebuffer
[2021-12-16T05:29:22Z] <dilyn> but muh wallpaper
[2021-12-16T05:30:17Z] <testuser[m]> img2sixel wallpaper.png
[2021-12-16T05:30:24Z] <acheam> or https://repo.or.cz/fbvis.git
[2021-12-16T05:45:50Z] <noocsharp> if everybody just used plan9, all the world's problems would cease to exist
[2021-12-16T10:58:13Z] <jedavies> noocsharp: qemu will be looking for that because of something else you have installed, enabling some feature that requires libtasn1
[2021-12-16T10:59:45Z] <jedavies> Regarding cross compilers, clang can do that also. Just add --target whatever
[2021-12-16T11:00:56Z] <jedavies> I use it in the package system, so you can do "KISS_ROOT=/aarch64root kiss b packagename" and it cross builds
[2021-12-16T11:29:03Z] <Featyre> Hello, I was wondering if full disk encryption on Kiss Linux is really possible? I am stuck on trying to piece together from search results.
[2021-12-16T11:29:19Z] <testuser[m]> ask illiliti
[2021-12-16T11:29:29Z] <testuser[m]> its possible but idk the setup
[2021-12-16T11:31:11Z] <Featyre> Huh I will ask them then, I am stuck on what to do
[2021-12-16T11:31:24Z] <Featyre> Btw does [m] means you're on matrix?
[2021-12-16T11:33:38Z] <testuser[m]> perhaps
[2021-12-16T11:36:20Z] <Featyre> Oh well, IRC is fine for now
[2021-12-16T12:24:10Z] <clemens3> what's wrong with the framebuffer
[2021-12-16T12:37:00Z] <illiliti> Featyre: fde is possible by using luks or zfs
[2021-12-16T12:37:36Z] <illiliti> luks is better if you need plausible deniability
[2021-12-16T12:43:54Z] <illiliti> initramfs is required though. tinyramfs is the most portable tool to generate it
[2021-12-16T13:40:42Z] <Featyre> illiliti: Do I need cryptsetup and lvm2?
[2021-12-16T13:45:45Z] <illiliti> since cryptsetup depends on libdevmapper, yes you need lvm2
[2021-12-16T13:48:37Z] <illiliti> if you're going to use zfs, you don't need cryptsetup
[2021-12-16T13:53:13Z] <Tom10> Does sway-tiny has xwayland?
[2021-12-16T13:54:37Z] <jedavies> There's no xwayland in the kiss repos
[2021-12-16T13:57:06Z] <Featyre> Alright then thanks
[2021-12-16T13:57:28Z] <Tom10> Thanks I will have to use the xorg unofficial repos then
[2021-12-16T14:16:40Z] <Featyre> I now have this problem where compiling cryptsetup errors with file not found when it was in the same build folder
[2021-12-16T14:21:43Z] <Featyre> Logs: https://dpaste.com/C8T9UYUK.txt
[2021-12-16T14:22:42Z] <Featyre> Oope typing manually went wrong, here: https://dpaste.com/C8T9U6YUK.txt
[2021-12-16T14:22:52Z] <Featyre> oops*
[2021-12-16T14:29:49Z] <testuser[m]> > ./generate-symbols-list: not found
[2021-12-16T14:29:59Z] <testuser[m]> I guess it needs perl or something
[2021-12-16T14:30:03Z] <testuser[m]> Which isn't installed
[2021-12-16T14:30:11Z] <testuser[m]> Check the shebang on that file
[2021-12-16T14:30:12Z] <dilyn> ^
[2021-12-16T14:32:23Z] <Featyre> Let me try installing Perl and then check anything else
[2021-12-16T14:34:30Z] <illiliti> generate-symbols-list is a bash script
[2021-12-16T14:34:39Z] <dilyn> lol
[2021-12-16T14:37:48Z] <Featyre> So what actually happened here
[2021-12-16T14:37:55Z] <Featyre> I might have to dig through
[2021-12-16T14:38:49Z] <dilyn> well you'll have to set bash as sh
[2021-12-16T14:39:09Z] <dilyn> or change the shebang line to /bin/env bash
[2021-12-16T14:39:37Z] <dilyn> or no i'm wrong it's already /bin/bash. just installing bash should be sufficient.
[2021-12-16T14:40:21Z] <illiliti> unacceptable!
[2021-12-16T14:43:07Z] <Featyre> Yep installing bash works
[2021-12-16T14:43:15Z] <dilyn> i mean honestly tho...
[2021-12-16T14:43:30Z] <dilyn> is it even bash tho
[2021-12-16T14:43:51Z] <Featyre> Or probably just the default shell
[2021-12-16T14:44:49Z] <Featyre> Now how can I force remove perl
[2021-12-16T14:44:58Z] <Featyre> Or is it even possible
[2021-12-16T14:46:09Z] <testuser[m]> kiss r perl
[2021-12-16T14:53:56Z] <illiliti> https://termbin.com/2x5i
[2021-12-16T14:54:01Z] <illiliti> POSIX sh
[2021-12-16T14:54:05Z] <illiliti> fuck bash
[2021-12-16T14:58:03Z] <Featyre> POSIX cryptsetup patch
[2021-12-16T15:01:27Z] <Featyre> I might include this in my repo
[2021-12-16T15:01:45Z] <Featyre> Which I might push to public someday
[2021-12-16T15:05:26Z] <illiliti> do it! consider this script as a public domain
[2021-12-16T15:05:44Z] <illiliti> no bullshit nor CLA is required
[2021-12-16T15:05:49Z] <illiliti> i promise :)
[2021-12-16T15:06:11Z] <Featyre> I'm not going to put the repo under copyleft lol
[2021-12-16T15:06:23Z] <Featyre> So it's fine
[2021-12-16T15:07:03Z] <Featyre> And really though, ever since I have down in the hold of Linux minimalism, I think this is the final stop of Linux distro hopping
[2021-12-16T15:07:09Z] <Featyre> hole*
[2021-12-16T15:13:46Z] <dilyn> you could adopt cryptsetup in community xD
[2021-12-16T15:14:45Z] <midfavila> morning, everyone
[2021-12-16T15:15:03Z] <illiliti> hi
[2021-12-16T15:17:37Z] <midfavila> has anyone found a way to get hoc(1) running under KISS?
[2021-12-16T15:18:21Z] <testuser[m]> whats hoc
[2021-12-16T15:18:28Z] <testuser[m]> and where did your laptop go
[2021-12-16T15:19:01Z] <midfavila> the high-order calculator. it's the successor to bc and dc, and is standard under plan 9. i need it because I've started running into the limits of bc and dc
[2021-12-16T15:19:01Z] <midfavila> and laptop is currently in my sidedesk, charging
[2021-12-16T15:19:22Z] <midfavila> i've reorganized my room to be more conducive to my studies, so I can use my desktop instead of my laptop now. it's much nicer
[2021-12-16T15:20:23Z] <illiliti> midfavila-laptop no more?
[2021-12-16T15:20:29Z] <Featyre> Since I have never heard it before, nope
[2021-12-16T15:21:02Z] <midfavila> laptop is just taking a well-deserved break :P 
[2021-12-16T15:21:02Z] <midfavila> i guess if need be I can take a crack at modernizing the source code after copying it from my copy of TUPE... 
[2021-12-16T15:21:12Z] <midfavila> ...actually, I bet plan 9 from user space has it
[2021-12-16T15:22:31Z] <midfavila> worst comes to pass I'll just use Emacs' integrated CAS or try to set up Macsyma
[2021-12-16T15:23:17Z] <Tom10> I heard somewhere that you can take screenshots using ffmpeg and I've only seen working results using x11grab and maybe kmsgrab. Have anyone managed to get ffmpeg screenshot working with wayland?
[2021-12-16T15:23:39Z] <midfavila> i've never heard of it working under wayland
[2021-12-16T15:23:52Z] <midfavila> i can imagine it would be a massive pain with how stingy wayland is about screen captures though
[2021-12-16T15:24:06Z] <midfavila> glad I forked the rootfs desu
[2021-12-16T15:28:24Z] <illiliti> https://www.etalabs.net/sh_tricks.html
[2021-12-16T15:28:28Z] <illiliti> good read
[2021-12-16T15:28:37Z] <illiliti> especially that badass date +%s trick
[2021-12-16T15:29:12Z] <Tom10> Btw, I found an easy way to run x applications on kiss linux incase without xwayland installed on your system, you can do an arch linux chroot with the wayland-1 socket symlinked to the arch chroot and run weston with xwayland on it, image: https://i.postimg.cc/2yKG563H/20211216-12h23m52s-grim.png
[2021-12-16T15:38:34Z] <midfavila> oh, yeah, I have that on my site, illiliti
[2021-12-16T15:38:40Z] <midfavila> glad I came across it a while back
[2021-12-16T15:41:50Z] <testuser[m]> Tom10: weston inside kiss swat?
[2021-12-16T15:41:53Z] <testuser[m]> sway
[2021-12-16T15:43:17Z] <Tom10> testuser[m] Yes, this site helped a lot: https://discuss.linuxcontainers.org/t/howto-use-the-hosts-wayland-and-xwayland-servers-inside-containers/8765
[2021-12-16T16:41:04Z] <acheam> testuser[m]: whats your plan with chromium and manifest v3?
[2021-12-16T16:53:34Z] <dilyn> sdl2 patch for a similar issue that firefox 94 has: https://github.com/libsdl-org/SDL/commit/e2ade2bfc46d915cd306c63c830b81d800b2575f.patch
[2021-12-16T16:53:46Z] <dilyn> for reference when someone inevitably asks
[2021-12-16T17:03:43Z] <phinxy> That patch looks different to the one you posted before https://git.alpinelinux.org/aports/commit/community/firefox-esr?id=a408069e75632ce625aea68c70c23ee9e30995a5
[2021-12-16T17:04:54Z] <dilyn> yes because the one i posted before was for firefox and this one is for sdl;)
[2021-12-16T17:05:30Z] <testuser[m]> acheam: manifest V what
[2021-12-16T17:05:58Z] <testuser[m]> lol
[2021-12-16T17:06:19Z] <acheam> https://www.eff.org/deeplinks/2021/12/googles-manifest-v3-still-hurts-privacy-security-innovation
[2021-12-16T17:06:22Z] <V> it's the new add-on API that has massive restrictions on content blocking :p
[2021-12-16T17:06:30Z] <V> they tried to neuter uBlock, basically
[2021-12-16T17:06:42Z] <acheam> and they'll be deprecating v2 soon
[2021-12-16T17:06:48Z] <V> indeed
[2021-12-16T17:06:58Z] <V> TL;DR use Firefox
[2021-12-16T17:07:05Z] <midfavila> tl;dr don't use the web
[2021-12-16T17:07:20Z] <acheam> woah midfavila is here
[2021-12-16T17:07:26Z] <midfavila> indeed it is i
[2021-12-16T17:07:44Z] <midfavila> shitposter extraordinaire
[2021-12-16T17:08:56Z] <midfavila> wonder if something akin to invidious could be run over gopher
[2021-12-16T17:09:08Z] <testuser[m]> acheam: v2 extensions will stop being updated in 2022 or they will just reject new entries?
[2021-12-16T17:09:17Z] <acheam> not sure
[2021-12-16T17:09:41Z] <acheam> "Manifest V2 will no longer function as of January 2023"
[2021-12-16T17:09:46Z] <acheam> which is further away than I thought
[2021-12-16T17:09:53Z] <acheam> so you've got a year
[2021-12-16T17:10:06Z] <testuser[m]> Soon
[2021-12-16T17:11:55Z] <midfavila> ngl I can't get why people would choose chromium over something else, short of relying heavily on webapps
[2021-12-16T17:12:32Z] <testuser[m]> midfavila: rn I am using it cuz this dogshit nvidia driver leaks memory all over the place if anything uses hw accel
[2021-12-16T17:12:40Z] <testuser[m]> And chromium software accel is much better
[2021-12-16T17:12:41Z] <testuser[m]> Than ff
[2021-12-16T17:12:50Z] <testuser[m]> and force dark mode is nice
[2021-12-16T17:12:53Z] <testuser[m]> Otherwise ff is better
[2021-12-16T17:12:56Z] <midfavila> that's an interesting circumstance, so I shall allow it
[2021-12-16T17:13:06Z] <midfavila> fwiw you can force dark modes using extensions in most any browser
[2021-12-16T17:13:15Z] <testuser[m]> But its not as good
[2021-12-16T17:13:20Z] * midfavila shrugs
[2021-12-16T17:13:26Z] <midfavila> nuclear take, 
[2021-12-16T17:13:28Z] <midfavila> dark themes bad
[2021-12-16T17:13:35Z] <midfavila> no i will not elaborate
[2021-12-16T17:13:46Z] <testuser[m]> Lol
[2021-12-16T17:16:04Z] <midfavila> okay for real though,
[2021-12-16T17:16:23Z] <midfavila> if your workspace is dark enough that light themes hurt your eyes you should a) turn down your backlight and b) turn on some fucking lights
[2021-12-16T17:16:37Z] <midfavila> even just like, a lamp 
[2021-12-16T17:17:24Z] <testuser[m]> Dark just looks better
[2021-12-16T17:17:48Z] <midfavila> that's at least a valid take. i can respect aesthetic preference
[2021-12-16T17:18:06Z] <midfavila> but I've run into so many people who are *convinced* that light themes are bad because "reeeeeee my eyes"
[2021-12-16T17:20:02Z] <phoebos> dark does look better, but https://git.kisscommunity.org/community/log.html so sexy
[2021-12-16T17:20:22Z] <midfavila> i just use solarized light
[2021-12-16T17:20:41Z] <midfavila> lately I've been trying to get Motif to adopt the colors from Emacs' Modus Operandi
[2021-12-16T17:21:13Z] <dilyn> soft light themes are bae
[2021-12-16T17:21:58Z] <midfavila> as in low-contrast?
[2021-12-16T17:27:04Z] <noocsharp> at one point i had a dwm/st build that could switch between solarized light and dark at the press of a button
[2021-12-16T17:27:20Z] <midfavila> that's nifty
[2021-12-16T17:27:33Z] <midfavila> i need to get back to tinkering with C so I can write my own WM
[2021-12-16T17:29:42Z] <noocsharp> you say that every time you come here and yet i don't see midfavilaWM
[2021-12-16T17:29:56Z] <midfavila> soon:tm:
[2021-12-16T17:30:00Z] <testuser[m]> Soon
[2021-12-16T17:30:06Z] <midfavila> i've been dedicating most of my study time to mathematics
[2021-12-16T17:30:13Z] <dilyn> soon(tm)(tm)
[2021-12-16T17:30:17Z] <noocsharp> you also say that every time you come here
[2021-12-16T17:30:25Z] <midfavila> bceause it's true >:c
[2021-12-16T17:31:05Z] <midfavila> have been thinking of ordering a set of XLib reference manuals though
[2021-12-16T17:31:15Z] <midfavila> O'Reilly published six or seven of them back in the 90s and '00s
[2021-12-16T17:33:35Z] <midfavila> brb
[2021-12-16T17:43:05Z] <midfavila> and we're back
[2021-12-16T19:31:57Z] <bibliocar> wayland compositor based on libsixel when
[2021-12-16T19:56:45Z] <jedavies> YES
[2021-12-16T20:08:27Z] <midfavila> never because wayland bad
[2021-12-16T20:09:20Z] <dilyn> no, it is X which is bad
[2021-12-16T20:09:33Z] <midfavila> that's just like
[2021-12-16T20:09:35Z] <midfavila> your opinion, bro
[2021-12-16T20:10:04Z] <midfavila> do wayland compositors run on anything other than linux yet
[2021-12-16T20:10:35Z] <dilyn> are they meant to
[2021-12-16T20:10:45Z] <midfavila> if they want to replace X, they better
[2021-12-16T20:11:10Z] <dilyn> I'm pretty sure the explicit purpose is to replace X on Linux
[2021-12-16T20:12:10Z] <midfavila> i've never heard that it's supposed to be specific to linux
[2021-12-16T20:12:19Z] <midfavila> as far as I understand it wayland is meant to replace X, full stop
[2021-12-16T20:12:54Z] <dilyn> I mean... "We are trying to distill out the functionality in the X server that is still used by the modern Linux desktop."
[2021-12-16T20:13:02Z] <dilyn> sounds like they only care about Linux
[2021-12-16T20:13:08Z] <dilyn> https://wayland.freedesktop.org/docs/html/ch01.html#sect-Motivation
[2021-12-16T20:13:12Z] <midfavila> if that's the case then fair enough
[2021-12-16T20:13:23Z] <midfavila> but also, that makes wayland even less relevant to me :v
[2021-12-16T20:13:35Z] <midfavila> as soon as hyperBSD is usable I'm gone
[2021-12-16T21:28:19Z] <bibliocar> the problem with wayland compositers is that there's no generic 2d api for hardware acceleration
[2021-12-16T21:30:31Z] <bibliocar> looking at wld from velox, they either use the cpu, or have specific drivers for each brand of gpu? At least if I'm reading things right.
[2021-12-16T21:31:37Z] <bibliocar> others use opengles
[2021-12-16T21:35:34Z] <bibliocar> Maybe something could be built on vulkan.
[2021-12-16T21:43:15Z] <bibliocar> aha, firefox uses opengles as well.
[2021-12-16T21:49:18Z] <jedavies> There's a vulkan renderer in wlroots. Haven't tried it though.
[2021-12-16T21:52:44Z] <bibliocar> Except my etnaviv doesn't even support Vulkan. The advantage of opengl ES is at least people use it. You know, I think wld's approach may be the correct one. The "drivers" I mentioned per individual gpu are pretty simple.
[2021-12-16T21:54:35Z] <bibliocar> it's not a driver, just interfacing with a non-generic api
[2021-12-16T21:56:53Z] <bibliocar> sorry, just thinking out loud.
[2021-12-16T22:55:16Z] <phoebos> https://git.yzena.com/gavin/bc/src/branch/master/manuals/development.md
[2021-12-16T22:55:23Z] <phoebos> what a neat bit of software
[2021-12-16T23:32:37Z] <midfavila-away> gavin-bc is very nice
[2021-12-16T23:32:47Z] <midfavila-away> my only problem with it is that it doesn't linewrap
[2021-12-16T23:43:36Z] <phoebos> why is midfavila-away talking
[2021-12-16T23:43:52Z] <midfavila-away> because he forgot to change his nick back apparently
[2021-12-16T23:43:57Z] * midfavila dies
[2021-12-16T23:44:50Z] <phoebos> oh dear