gemini - kennedy.gemi.dev

💾 Archived View for gemini.ctrl-c.club › ~phoebos › logs › kisslinux-2021-09-25.txt captured on 2024-05-12 at 16:04:16.
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[2021-09-25T00:03:09Z] <GalaxyNova> midfavila you're alive
[2021-09-25T00:03:10Z] <GalaxyNova> nice
[2021-09-25T00:03:23Z] <midfavila> yes, for the time being
[2021-09-25T00:03:54Z] <GalaxyNova> how's it going
[2021-09-25T00:04:02Z] <midfavila> slowly
[2021-09-25T00:04:07Z] <midfavila> finished moving the other day
[2021-09-25T00:04:54Z] <acheam> where are you moving to?
[2021-09-25T00:04:55Z] <GalaxyNova> oh wow
[2021-09-25T00:05:09Z] <midfavila> moved in with some friends to split rent and other costs
[2021-09-25T00:05:19Z] <midfavila> gonna be setting up the house's LAN this weekend
[2021-09-25T00:05:45Z] <GalaxyNova> that's cool
[2021-09-25T00:05:58Z] <GalaxyNova> you're in uni right?
[2021-09-25T00:06:11Z] <midfavila> unfortunately not. just a private college
[2021-09-25T00:06:24Z] <midfavila> i would have preferred to go to uni but the pandemic fucked me out of a year's worth of credits
[2021-09-25T00:06:36Z] <midfavila> i've just been studying on my own when I have the time.
[2021-09-25T00:06:44Z] <GalaxyNova> that too bad :(
[2021-09-25T00:06:55Z] <GalaxyNova> studying what?
[2021-09-25T00:06:57Z] <GalaxyNova> computer science?
[2021-09-25T00:07:02Z] <midfavila> right now? mathematics
[2021-09-25T00:07:30Z] <midfavila> i need to iron out some deficiencies in my basic skillset before I'll feel comfortable approaching the higher maths used in CS
[2021-09-25T00:21:34Z] <zola> Does someone know what package provides aclocal?
[2021-09-25T00:22:12Z] <midfavila> automake
[2021-09-25T00:24:15Z] <zola> Thanks
[2021-09-25T00:51:33Z] <GalaxyNova> damn cwm is really underrated
[2021-09-25T00:51:53Z] <midfavila> you know what else is really underrated?
[2021-09-25T00:51:53Z] <midfavila> twm
[2021-09-25T00:52:02Z] <GalaxyNova> yes
[2021-09-25T00:54:44Z] <GalaxyNova> http://0x0.st/-YAN.png
[2021-09-25T00:55:05Z] <midfavila> That's a nice wallpaper.
[2021-09-25T00:55:39Z] <GalaxyNova> :D
[2021-09-25T00:56:17Z] <GalaxyNova> you use fvwm right?
[2021-09-25T00:56:25Z] <midfavila> Haven't for a while.
[2021-09-25T00:56:35Z] <midfavila> I've been using shodwm on my desktop and aewm on my laptop.
[2021-09-25T00:56:47Z] <midfavila> Gonna probably take a crack at writing a wm once I'm done with K&R
[2021-09-25T00:56:51Z] <GalaxyNova> oh interesting
[2021-09-25T00:56:54Z] <midfavila> which will totally be Soon:tm:
[2021-09-25T00:57:21Z] <GalaxyNova> Xorg will be obsolete by then 8-)
[2021-09-25T00:57:39Z] <GalaxyNova> lol
[2021-09-25T00:57:44Z] <midfavila> maybe
[2021-09-25T01:15:43Z] <acheam> twm is eh
[2021-09-25T01:15:55Z] <acheam> cwm is god
[2021-09-25T01:17:46Z] <midfavila> a false god, perhaps
[2021-09-25T01:18:15Z] <midfavila> https://ytprivate.com/watch?v=P0Ji2sxk0Uc
[2021-09-25T01:19:27Z] <midfavila> i found this wm called yeahwm that I like the look of, but it hasn't been touched in like fifteen years
[2021-09-25T01:19:50Z] <midfavila> prolly gonna reverse-engineer it and add my own tweaks to it
[2021-09-25T01:19:57Z] <midfavila> shod has some interesting ideas
[2021-09-25T01:29:03Z] <GalaxyNova> yeahwm reminds me of BeOS
[2021-09-25T01:29:07Z] <GalaxyNova> and haiku
[2021-09-25T01:29:09Z] <midfavila> yep
[2021-09-25T01:29:14Z] <midfavila> that's why I'm interested in it
[2021-09-25T01:29:24Z] <midfavila> i have a particular fondness for beos and its UI
[2021-09-25T01:35:31Z] <acheam> https://lists.gnu.org/archive/html/coreutils/2021-09/msg00113.html
[2021-09-25T01:36:06Z] <GalaxyNova> ew gnu.org
[2021-09-25T01:36:08Z] <GalaxyNova> GPL website
[2021-09-25T01:36:15Z] <GalaxyNova> smh
[2021-09-25T01:36:28Z] <acheam> "more amalgamation of utilities"
[2021-09-25T01:36:32Z] <acheam> very unix
[2021-09-25T01:36:42Z] <midfavila> to be fair, GNU's not unix
[2021-09-25T01:36:42Z] <GalaxyNova> GNU coreutils even have a "dir" command
[2021-09-25T01:37:10Z] <GalaxyNova> dir command is the most cursed thing to use on linux
[2021-09-25T01:38:16Z] <GalaxyNova> coreutils 9.0 is just adding even more GNU extensions
[2021-09-25T01:38:48Z] <acheam> JuSt dOnT uSe ThEm, gAlAxYnOvA
[2021-09-25T01:39:33Z] <GalaxyNova> lol I hate when people say that
[2021-09-25T01:43:39Z] <GalaxyNova> https://libredd.it/pu1k55
[2021-09-25T01:46:59Z] <midfavila> oh, I saw that a little while ago
[2021-09-25T01:47:02Z] <midfavila> cool I guess
[2021-09-25T01:47:06Z] <GalaxyNova> yeah
[2021-09-25T01:47:12Z] <GalaxyNova> nice to see more support for linux
[2021-09-25T01:47:27Z] <GalaxyNova> not that i would benefit from this change whatsoever
[2021-09-25T01:47:35Z] * midfavila celebrates that they can now run proprietary DRM on a free software operating system
[2021-09-25T01:47:55Z] <midfavila> at least I can shit on all the normies who say that linux can't play their games
[2021-09-25T01:48:10Z] <GalaxyNova> if you have any kind of firmware blobs installed on your system it's the same thing as DRM
[2021-09-25T01:48:45Z] <midfavila> good thing my laptop doesn't require blobs
[2021-09-25T01:48:50Z] <GalaxyNova> thinkpad?
[2021-09-25T01:48:54Z] <midfavila> toughbook.
[2021-09-25T01:48:59Z] <midfavila> thinkpads are garbage.
[2021-09-25T01:49:02Z] <midfavila> fight me.
[2021-09-25T01:49:06Z] <GalaxyNova> lol why
[2021-09-25T01:49:22Z] <midfavila> the quality post-IBM dropped dramatically, as did the repairability and upgradeability
[2021-09-25T01:49:30Z] <midfavila> after using an IBM I can't go back to Lenovo
[2021-09-25T01:49:34Z] <midfavila> i have PTSD
[2021-09-25T01:49:40Z] <midfavila> post-thinkpad stress disorder
[2021-09-25T01:50:03Z] <midfavila> i mean, like, imagine having to modify your BIOS just to install a not-shit wireless card
[2021-09-25T01:50:11Z] * GalaxyNova cries in not having a laptop
[2021-09-25T01:50:20Z] <midfavila> you're not missing out on a lot
[2021-09-25T01:50:33Z] <midfavila> next mobile device I'm buying is a Reform and it's going to replace my laptop and phone
[2021-09-25T01:50:46Z] <midfavila> e-ink screen and mechanical keyboard here I come
[2021-09-25T01:51:29Z] <GalaxyNova> why not just use a calculator?
[2021-09-25T01:51:30Z] <GalaxyNova> haha
[2021-09-25T01:51:43Z] <midfavila> because I don't know nor do I care to learn Z80 assembler
[2021-09-25T01:51:47Z] <midfavila> or TI-BASIC
[2021-09-25T04:18:18Z] <testuser[m]> Hi
[2021-09-25T04:20:09Z] <testuser[m]> GalaxyNova: the kati thing is non-gnu but it's way more pozzed in terms of size
[2021-09-25T07:52:28Z] <GalaxyNova> hey
[2021-09-25T07:52:41Z] <GalaxyNova> :3
[2021-09-25T07:53:52Z] <GalaxyNova> hey ella-0_
[2021-09-25T07:54:48Z] <ella-0_> hello
[2021-09-25T07:55:25Z] <testuser[m]> hi
[2021-09-25T07:55:36Z] <GalaxyNova> hey testuser
[2021-09-25T07:55:38Z] <GalaxyNova> how's it going
[2021-09-25T07:56:09Z] <testuser[m]> nice
[2021-09-25T07:57:32Z] <GalaxyNova> perhaps you'd want to keep your irc client open
[2021-09-25T11:27:34Z] <testuser[m]> https://www.gamingonlinux.com/2021/09/battleye-confirms-linux-support-for-steam-deck-will-be-opt-in-like-easy-anti-cheat/page=4
[2021-09-25T11:27:40Z] <testuser[m]> you can run even more pozware now
[2021-09-25T14:54:19Z] <akira01> hi guys
[2021-09-25T14:54:32Z] <akira01> how are you doing
[2021-09-25T14:54:51Z] <testuser[m]> nice
[2021-09-25T14:55:15Z] <akira01> good
[2021-09-25T14:55:24Z] <akira01> any news for kiss?
[2021-09-25T14:55:43Z] <testuser[m]> no
[2021-09-25T15:11:43Z] <f1> hi
[2021-09-25T21:21:26Z] <tleydxdy[m]> howdy
[2021-09-25T21:23:53Z] <f1> hello
[2021-09-25T21:26:43Z] <tleydxdy[m]> trying to figure out my install, seems like I would be needing to package quite a few stuff
[2021-09-25T21:26:59Z] <tleydxdy[m]> I wonder how do you guys track upstream releases?
[2021-09-25T21:27:37Z] <illiliti> repology
[2021-09-25T21:38:59Z] <GalaxyNova> kiss is no longer on repology
[2021-09-25T21:39:00Z] <GalaxyNova> IIRC
[2021-09-25T21:39:15Z] <GalaxyNova> because the package system is no longer static
[2021-09-25T21:40:07Z] <ryoshu> hi
[2021-09-25T21:40:21Z] <ryoshu> im back, time for libudev
[2021-09-25T21:44:59Z] <f1> tleydxdy[m]: there's this 'kiss-outdated' tool included with KISS, just run 'kiss-outdated REPO' and it'll check repology for new versions
[2021-09-25T21:47:06Z] <illiliti> ryoshu: what's your progress? just curious
[2021-09-25T21:48:31Z] <ryoshu> I'm finishing udev_device_new_from_devnum
[2021-09-25T21:49:45Z] <illiliti> nice
[2021-09-25T21:50:39Z] <ryoshu> I was thinking, I think we should deliver from the kernel everything in prop, like subsystem
[2021-09-25T21:51:12Z] <ryoshu> and make libudev just a grabber of prop values from the kernel about the devices
[2021-09-25T21:51:17Z] <ryoshu> without having its own knowledge
[2021-09-25T21:51:43Z] <illiliti> good idea
[2021-09-25T21:52:15Z] <ryoshu> same with everything needed for libinput, like mice or touchpad
[2021-09-25T21:52:26Z] <ryoshu> and possibly more to make hwdb quirklist usable
[2021-09-25T21:53:39Z] <illiliti> you don't need hwdb
[2021-09-25T21:53:43Z] <illiliti> it was invented to fix linux bugs in userspace
[2021-09-25T21:54:12Z] <ryoshu> IIRC we need it to map function/special buttons on laptops
[2021-09-25T21:54:37Z] <illiliti> just do it in driver/kernel
[2021-09-25T21:55:11Z] <ryoshu> hmm, then we can avoid extra userspace module
[2021-09-25T21:55:32Z] <ryoshu> and avoid hwdb problem - mainly (l)gpl
[2021-09-25T21:56:53Z] <tleydxdy[m]> <f1> "tleydxdy: there's this 'kiss-..." <- nice
[2021-09-25T21:59:23Z] <ryoshu> illiliti: imho, systemd can be way nicer if they step back and simplify :)
[2021-09-25T22:00:34Z] <illiliti> systemd is cursed by design
[2021-09-25T22:01:40Z] <illiliti> you're forced to implement libudev for netbsd because systemd devs don't care about portability
[2021-09-25T22:01:47Z] <illiliti> remember that
[2021-09-25T22:07:00Z] <illiliti> actually, forced "linuxisation" of the other systems scare me more than just systemd
[2021-09-25T22:07:03Z] <ryoshu> lennart asked for 'full stop', so I switched to NetBSD
[2021-09-25T22:07:44Z] <ryoshu> a subset of libudev is Okay
[2021-09-25T22:14:32Z] <bountyht> illiliti: I agree with you there. If you have to start building adapters for Linuxisms in the BSDs you are already playing defensive
[2021-09-25T22:15:15Z] <bountyht> I am having a lot of trouble with qtkeychain and libsecret in OpenBSD. Invention of the Devil, I say
[2021-09-25T22:15:53Z] <ryoshu> have you got a quite compatible replacement for logind?
[2021-09-25T22:16:07Z] <GalaxyNova> seatd?
[2021-09-25T22:16:45Z] <ryoshu> https://github.com/kennylevinsen/seatd that?
[2021-09-25T22:17:14Z] <GalaxyNova> yes
[2021-09-25T22:17:21Z] <GalaxyNova> it's a portable replacement for logind
[2021-09-25T22:17:44Z] <ryoshu> can I run kde/gnome/such on top of it?
[2021-09-25T22:17:58Z] <GalaxyNova> I'm not sure
[2021-09-25T22:18:06Z] <GalaxyNova> sway can run on it though
[2021-09-25T22:18:40Z] <GalaxyNova> they say it supports linux and freebsd but I'm sure it could be ported to other BSDs easily
[2021-09-25T22:22:41Z] <illiliti> ryoshu: kde/gnome hardcodes systemd. so you need to patch it to use seatd instead
[2021-09-25T22:25:13Z] <illiliti> bountyht: yeah. the problem here is that many people fights against systemd, but almost nobody fights against "linuxisation"
[2021-09-25T22:25:44Z] <illiliti> this makes me sad :(
[2021-09-25T22:25:47Z] <bountyht> Well I know a guy who plans to make Plan 9 the Operating System of the Future :-)
[2021-09-25T22:26:03Z] <GalaxyNova> The tragedy of systemd talk says that that's a good thing
[2021-09-25T22:26:07Z] <GalaxyNova> the linuxisation
[2021-09-25T22:27:52Z] <illiliti> that's nonsense. it isn't just a linuxisation, it's a forced linuxisation
[2021-09-25T22:28:49Z] <bountyht> illiliti: The problem is that many BSD projects are not producing projects on their own.
[2021-09-25T22:29:02Z] <bountyht> I mean, what is the BSD graphics toolkit today? TK?
[2021-09-25T22:29:14Z] <GalaxyNova> that's because of a lack of resources
[2021-09-25T22:29:24Z] <GalaxyNova> they can barely afford to maintain the base OS
[2021-09-25T22:29:55Z] <GalaxyNova> I would love to see a BSD graphics toolkit
[2021-09-25T22:30:17Z] <bountyht> Well there is TK :-P
[2021-09-25T22:30:44Z] <bountyht> I think the BSDs produce good infrastructure like stuff but it is coping with 3rd party stuff what gets hard
[2021-09-25T22:31:00Z] <bountyht> I mean I feel for anybody doing BSD ports of Firefox or Libreoffice
[2021-09-25T22:31:11Z] <GalaxyNova> yeah
[2021-09-25T22:31:19Z] <GalaxyNova> that's just because they aren't popular enough
[2021-09-25T22:31:29Z] <bountyht> And because third party projects are hostile
[2021-09-25T22:31:33Z] <GalaxyNova> almost no one considers BSD when writing a program
[2021-09-25T22:31:46Z] <bountyht> GalaxyNova: Have you read the most modern implementation of the Rogue game?
[2021-09-25T22:31:54Z] <bountyht> That freaking thing is designed to be portable
[2021-09-25T22:32:14Z] <bountyht> If everybody wrote like that you could port  software to any postfix platform quite easily
[2021-09-25T22:32:42Z] <ryoshu> many linux/gnu programs are copy-pasted from bsd
[2021-09-25T22:32:51Z] <ryoshu> like e.g. file or editline
[2021-09-25T22:32:59Z] <ryoshu> openssh
[2021-09-25T22:33:58Z] <bountyht> OpenSSH has a portable version
[2021-09-25T22:34:07Z] <bountyht> OpenBSD uses a non-portable version itself
[2021-09-25T22:34:17Z] <ryoshu> yes
[2021-09-25T22:34:28Z] <ryoshu> but this non-portable one works on netbsd
[2021-09-25T22:34:53Z] <bountyht> Yeah but that is because netbsd has a bunch of porters who will port anything to it even if that means sacrificing childs to Satan :-)
[2021-09-25T22:35:09Z] <ryoshu> no don't do it
[2021-09-25T22:35:23Z] <illiliti> lmao
[2021-09-25T22:35:59Z] <bountyht> Why not? A child is well worth a working port.
[2021-09-25T22:36:08Z] <bountyht> I mean kids only cry and eat and poop their diapers
[2021-09-25T22:36:19Z] <ryoshu> but it's true that there is not really a complex bsd modern gui stack
[2021-09-25T22:36:37Z] <ryoshu> comparable to kde/freedesktop
[2021-09-25T22:36:45Z] <ryoshu> freedesktop was planned to be portable
[2021-09-25T22:36:54Z] <ryoshu> so we don't write our own
[2021-09-25T22:37:13Z] <ryoshu> but then udev, evdev, logind, systemd happened
[2021-09-25T22:37:56Z] <ryoshu> DRMKMS was expected to be kernel agnostic...
[2021-09-25T22:38:09Z] <ryoshu> but it was forced to adapt it to linux kernel internal abi
[2021-09-25T22:41:01Z] <illiliti> wayland was supposed to be portable too. now it hardcodes linuxism epoll
[2021-09-25T22:41:36Z] <illiliti> and nobody fights against it
[2021-09-25T22:42:08Z] <illiliti> everyone just implemented shims to appease that dependency
[2021-09-25T22:42:30Z] <ryoshu> not true, netbsd has a kqueue-based version
[2021-09-25T22:43:04Z] <ryoshu> https://blog.netbsd.org/tnf/entry/wayland_on_netbsd_trials_and
[2021-09-25T22:43:19Z] <ryoshu> hese libraries currently have hard dependencies on Linux kernel APIs like epoll. In pkgsrc we've patched the libraries to add kqueue(2) support, but the patches haven't been accepted upstream.
[2021-09-25T22:44:01Z] <GalaxyNova> freedesktop doesn't really care about BSDs
[2021-09-25T22:44:01Z] <illiliti> that's the problem
[2021-09-25T22:44:06Z] <illiliti> "patches haven't been accepted"
[2021-09-25T22:45:06Z] <GalaxyNova> I think BSD people should just make their own ecosystem of things
[2021-09-25T22:46:17Z] <ryoshu> first we need users to retain their linux tools, then we can extend
[2021-09-25T22:47:22Z] <GalaxyNova> trying to port things is futile
[2021-09-25T22:47:40Z] <GalaxyNova> eventually there will be so many extensions and linuxisms that it will be impossible
[2021-09-25T22:48:24Z] <bountyht> My experience is that yuou can work with upstream if they are not hostile. When they are hostile you need to give them up.
[2021-09-25T22:48:53Z] <bountyht> Because the only thing you do is pour work into a whole that takes and takes adn takes and never gives anythign back
[2021-09-25T22:50:13Z] <GalaxyNova> well
[2021-09-25T22:50:35Z] <GalaxyNova> eventually that will be like asking a windows program to be ported on linux
[2021-09-25T22:51:27Z] <ryoshu> there is also macos, it uses bsd code for posix layer
[2021-09-25T22:51:55Z] <ryoshu> and android uses bsd code for bionic and possibly more
[2021-09-25T22:52:55Z] <bountyht> wtw anybody using pkgsrc in kisslinux? :-P
[2021-09-25T22:55:25Z] <ryoshu> one wayland developer became a netbsd/pkgsrc dev
[2021-09-25T22:55:35Z] <ryoshu> but we need more manpower
[2021-09-25T22:55:49Z] <GalaxyNova> yes
[2021-09-25T22:55:55Z] <GalaxyNova> together we will take over the open source world
[2021-09-25T22:56:32Z] <illiliti> pkgsrc is too complex
[2021-09-25T22:56:36Z] <illiliti> i prefer kiss :)
[2021-09-25T22:56:40Z] <bountyht> lol
[2021-09-25T22:57:05Z] <bountyht> SOmething that puts me off is the dependence on github I see around here
[2021-09-25T22:57:33Z] <bountyht> Like they are fucking using FOSS code for training their AI :-)
[2021-09-25T22:57:46Z] <GalaxyNova> yeah
[2021-09-25T22:57:49Z] <GalaxyNova> that's annoying
[2021-09-25T22:57:55Z] <GalaxyNova> dylan insists on using it though
[2021-09-25T22:58:10Z] <GalaxyNova> there used to be a mirror
[2021-09-25T22:58:30Z] <bountyht> It is extra annoying because they won't let me register with my email address for some reason
[2021-09-25T22:58:34Z] <bountyht> And that means no contributions
[2021-09-25T22:58:54Z] <bountyht> Which kind of sucks the fun out of FOSS
[2021-09-25T22:59:12Z] <GalaxyNova> sourcehut lets you contribute without an account 
[2021-09-25T22:59:17Z] <GalaxyNova> which is amazing
[2021-09-25T22:59:21Z] <bountyht> AWESOME
[2021-09-25T22:59:53Z] <illiliti> github is shit, i agree. i'll migrate to codeberg/notabug at some point
[2021-09-25T23:00:06Z] <GalaxyNova> or host your own
[2021-09-25T23:00:18Z] <GalaxyNova> I recently switched from hosting my projects on github to gitea
[2021-09-25T23:01:03Z] <bountyht> I host my stuff on CVS because I am weird
[2021-09-25T23:01:08Z] <bountyht> \o/
[2021-09-25T23:01:11Z] <GalaxyNova_> lol
[2021-09-25T23:01:30Z] <GalaxyNova_> i might look into fossil
[2021-09-25T23:01:36Z] <bountyht> Actually I find it more manageable if you don't intend to do much branching
[2021-09-25T23:01:52Z] <GalaxyNova_> OpenBSD is hosted on CVS IIRC
[2021-09-25T23:01:52Z] <bountyht> And even then
[2021-09-25T23:02:22Z] <bountyht> I have two separated versions of a Brogue ports in the same repository which is quite fun heh
[2021-09-25T23:02:32Z] <bountyht> GalaxyNova: Yes, they ahve their own implementation of CVS too
[2021-09-25T23:02:43Z] <bountyht> Also their own tolls for offering anonymous access
[2021-09-25T23:02:59Z] <bountyht> They have a wrapper with all the pledge() things going on which is quite nice.
[2021-09-25T23:03:05Z] <GalaxyNova_> yes
[2021-09-25T23:03:06Z] <GalaxyNova_> very cool
[2021-09-25T23:03:10Z] <bountyht> It makes CVS look less like a dinosaur
[2021-09-25T23:03:37Z] <GalaxyNova_> I love OpenBSD
[2021-09-25T23:03:43Z] <GalaxyNova_> I've just switched to it from kiss
[2021-09-25T23:04:51Z] <ryoshu> the difference between the tree major BSDs is: freebsd tries to put more stress on linux compat shims, openbsd on inventing new things, netbsd on clean design of usually preexisting things
[2021-09-25T23:05:10Z] <ryoshu> so freebsd just implemented libudev and evdev as-is
[2021-09-25T23:05:26Z] <GalaxyNova_> freebsd is just linux but bsd :-)
[2021-09-25T23:05:31Z] <GalaxyNova_> change my mind
[2021-09-25T23:05:52Z] <bountyht> Actually I don't use FreeBSD because it feels a lot like a Linux livensed BSD
[2021-09-25T23:06:00Z] <bountyht> A BSD licensed Linux
[2021-09-25T23:06:00Z] <GalaxyNova_> ^^
[2021-09-25T23:06:32Z] <GalaxyNova_> I might consider trying out NetBSD sometime
[2021-09-25T23:06:43Z] <bountyht> When Linux started getting hard with containers and gained ZFS support FreeBSD kind of lots its appeal in comparison for most applications
[2021-09-25T23:06:46Z] <illiliti> netbsd seems to be more developed than openbsd imo
[2021-09-25T23:06:49Z] <GalaxyNova_> but i really like OpenBSD's focus on code quality
[2021-09-25T23:06:56Z] <bountyht> NetBSD is quite fine
[2021-09-25T23:07:08Z] <GalaxyNova_> illiliti: That's because OpenBSD has bi-yearly releases
[2021-09-25T23:07:17Z] <bountyht> illiliti: What OpenBSD has is some in-house projects that are awesome. 
[2021-09-25T23:07:22Z] <GalaxyNova_> yes
[2021-09-25T23:07:23Z] <bountyht> Like their in-house httpd
[2021-09-25T23:07:27Z] <bountyht> Or OpenSMTPD
[2021-09-25T23:07:31Z] <bountyht> Not to mention OpenSSH
[2021-09-25T23:07:34Z] <GalaxyNova_> doas
[2021-09-25T23:07:35Z] <GalaxyNova_> libressl
[2021-09-25T23:07:57Z] <bountyht> The os itself is so-so but the structure is quite nice.
[2021-09-25T23:08:37Z] <bountyht> I think NetBSD develops more aggressively
[2021-09-25T23:09:17Z] <bountyht> I remember complaining that something was not available in OpenBSD. A porter took the problem and made a port out of it in 3 minutes for me hahahaha
[2021-09-25T23:09:23Z] <bountyht> NetBSD*
[2021-09-25T23:09:31Z] <GalaxyNova_> if you commit slightly buggy code to OpenBSD theo will personally come to your house and strangle you
[2021-09-25T23:09:44Z] <illiliti> lol
[2021-09-25T23:09:58Z] <bountyht> There is a no-mercy policy
[2021-09-25T23:10:35Z] <bountyht> First time I sent a patch somebody wrote to me "Read the documentation first before you bother us again, kid"
[2021-09-25T23:10:48Z] <GalaxyNova_> lmao
[2021-09-25T23:11:19Z] <bountyht> I suspect they have a policy in place to be rude to every first timer. If they stay more than a week they know they care for the system more than for feelings ahahahaha
[2021-09-25T23:11:24Z] <illiliti> what about dragonflybsd? is it good?
[2021-09-25T23:11:30Z] <bountyht> Never tried it
[2021-09-25T23:11:43Z] <GalaxyNova_> it's a fork of FreeBSD from 2005
[2021-09-25T23:11:48Z] <GalaxyNova_> with a new filesystem
[2021-09-25T23:12:07Z] <ryoshu> kind of old freebsd with an experimental filesystem and SMP
[2021-09-25T23:12:40Z] <GalaxyNova_> they've also got micro kernel stuff or so i think
[2021-09-25T23:12:52Z] <ryoshu> no
[2021-09-25T23:13:11Z] <ryoshu> they have something like usermode kernel
[2021-09-25T23:13:22Z] <GalaxyNova_> ah
[2021-09-25T23:13:42Z] <ryoshu> but we have rumpkernel and usermode_netbsd
[2021-09-25T23:14:33Z] <bountyht> ryoshu: Is there any way in pkgsrc to blacklist a port? As in, instructing pkgsrc notto attempt to build anything that depends on port X, Y or Z?
[2021-09-25T23:16:20Z] <GalaxyNova_> is openbsd doas ported to netbsd?
[2021-09-25T23:16:29Z] <ryoshu> doas is ported
[2021-09-25T23:16:35Z] <GalaxyNova_> ah cool
[2021-09-25T23:17:10Z] <ryoshu> bountyht: there was some way, but I forgot - #pkgsrc is more helpful
[2021-09-25T23:17:35Z] <bountyht> No problem
[2021-09-25T23:17:51Z] <bountyht> I think there is even a doas for linux, but I d have to check
[2021-09-25T23:18:31Z] <bountyht> GalaxyNova: I have used NetBSD for my raspberries. It is definitively worth a try if you are curious
[2021-09-25T23:19:00Z] <bountyht> Although for light work I use Tiny Core Linux in my raspbies because Tiny Core Linux does not touch the SD card after booting
[2021-09-25T23:19:06Z] <illiliti> ryoshu: https://gitweb.dragonflybsd.org/dragonfly.git/tree/HEAD:/lib/libdevattr
[2021-09-25T23:20:01Z] <illiliti> https://gitweb.dragonflybsd.org/dragonfly.git/tree/HEAD:/sbin/udevd
[2021-09-25T23:21:05Z] <ryoshu> thanks!
[2021-09-25T23:21:41Z] <ryoshu> at some point of time dragonfly was leading in wayland
[2021-09-25T23:21:46Z] <ryoshu> and drmkms
[2021-09-25T23:26:59Z] <illiliti> is it possible to run wayland on openbsd?
[2021-09-25T23:27:06Z] <GalaxyNova_> Yes
[2021-09-25T23:27:13Z] <GalaxyNova_> but it's not officially supported
[2021-09-25T23:27:24Z] <GalaxyNova_> and there's no packages for it in the repositories
[2021-09-25T23:28:07Z] <illiliti> where i can find these packages(and patches)?
[2021-09-25T23:28:58Z] <GalaxyNova_> uh
[2021-09-25T23:29:01Z] <GalaxyNova_> idk
[2021-09-25T23:29:07Z] <GalaxyNova_> the internet, probably
[2021-09-25T23:29:10Z] <bountyht> wtf
[2021-09-25T23:29:28Z] <GalaxyNova_> I've seen videos of ppl running wayland on OpenBSD
[2021-09-25T23:29:44Z] <bountyht> I am not that familiar with wayland but didn't it require specific drm integration or something?
[2021-09-25T23:30:14Z] <GalaxyNova_> Direct Rendering Manager yes
[2021-09-25T23:30:21Z] <illiliti> it requires mesa(?)
[2021-09-25T23:30:38Z] <bountyht> At least some Wayland devs have declared they intend to make it BSD portable and that a buch of things they were being pressed into including in the wlroot were inacceptable because they broke portability