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2021-02-07T00:37:58 #kisslinux <retrohacker> This is likely not surprising. But if you follow the RPi build steps above, and then pair it with the `boot` partition of an alpine install, the pi will boot into a KISS installation.
2021-02-07T00:38:44 #kisslinux <acheam> interesting
2021-02-07T00:38:50 #kisslinux <retrohacker> Took 2 days to compile gcc on a pi 3. Worth it to see a kiss login prompt when I plug in the pi.
2021-02-07T00:41:06 #kisslinux <retrohacker> Might poke around and see how much of the `extra` and `xorg` repos will compile on aarch64 without a patch. Will probably invest in a pi 4 for improved build time first šŸ˜‚
2021-02-07T00:42:49 #kisslinux <acheam> I wouldn't be surprised if most of it built fine ifrom the main repo. At worst, maybe just needing to call a different make target, flag, etc.
2021-02-07T00:43:47 #kisslinux <dilyn> isn't there an aarch64 repo on github?
2021-02-07T00:44:25 #kisslinux <acheam> https://github.com/jedavies-dev/kiss-aarch64
2021-02-07T00:44:37 #kisslinux <dilyn> there you go
2021-02-07T00:44:43 #kisslinux <acheam> Who would it be but jedavies :)
2021-02-07T00:44:49 #kisslinux <retrohacker> There is. I think jedavies maintains it. Hadn't been touched since september and was curious how much had been upstreamed since then :-)
2021-02-07T00:44:51 #kisslinux <dilyn> ofc
2021-02-07T00:45:10 #kisslinux <dilyn> why not cross-compile so you don't have to burn time on your pi tho? or is it just for the luls
2021-02-07T00:45:13 #kisslinux <retrohacker> The only patch `core` needs at this point is to remove the explicit `--build` flag.
2021-02-07T00:45:28 #kisslinux <retrohacker> Just for luls at this point. Discovered kiss last week and am scratching an itch.
2021-02-07T00:45:30 #kisslinux <acheam> dilyn:  Cross compiling aarch64 on x84_64?
2021-02-07T00:45:34 #kisslinux <dilyn> mhm
2021-02-07T01:09:17 #kisslinux <jedavies> Have not updated the aarch64 port for a while. Usually it doesn't need much maintenance anyway - most packages will build as-is. Should switch it to the community repos though until Dylan returns.
2021-02-07T01:10:09 #kisslinux <jedavies> I will not be supporting rust/firefox though. I can't do it across 4+ architectures, just too time consuming.
2021-02-07T01:11:09 #kisslinux <jedavies> For glasnost I will be focussing on surf initially, then chromium. Rust is just awful to maintain.
2021-02-07T01:11:11 #kisslinux <retrohacker> Heh don't take my messages as a signal you should do work on the repo. I'm just having fun.
2021-02-07T01:12:07 #kisslinux <retrohacker> Thanks for your work there. Reading the commit logs and seeing where you had to tweak files gave me the confidence to try it on a pi.
2021-02-07T01:14:35 #kisslinux <jedavies> Was just something I did for fun/learning also. Good luck on the pi - what model is it? I run KISS on a rockpro64 currently, which I think is a similar spec.
2021-02-07T01:15:54 #kisslinux <retrohacker> A 3a+
2021-02-07T01:22:18 #kisslinux <acheam> Would making an official aarch64 repo be against dylan's ideals?
2021-02-07T01:23:07 #kisslinux <acheam> I feel like a simple addition to KISS would be adding a KISS_ARCH variable, and a more streamlined aarch64 experience
2021-02-07T01:23:38 #kisslinux <retrohacker> rockpro64 looks beefier. To compile gcc I had to use swap and only had a single core, those 3 extra cores and 4GB of ram would make a big difference.
2021-02-07T01:26:13 #kisslinux <retrohacker> I remember reading somewhere that K1SS was firmly x86_64 and English. I found jedavies' port through the website which is good enough IMO.
2021-02-07T01:26:13 #kisslinux <jedavies> retrohacker: yeah, the a72 help a lot
2021-02-07T01:27:02 #kisslinux <acheam> retrohacker:  I can't find anything about x86_64 on https://k1ss.org/guidestones
2021-02-07T01:29:08 #kisslinux <jedavies> I think Dylan wanted KISS to be x86_64 only. He used to state it specifically. Only here now I think: https://k1ss.org/wiki/community/ports
2021-02-07T01:29:24 #kisslinux <jedavies> He removed references here: https://git.k1ss.org/website/commit/90d86b8abdb4e4a460991e0f8f35f0126b97f6ed.html
2021-02-07T01:30:48 #kisslinux <acheam> jedavies:  All it says is that x86_64 is the only officially supported arch, so an official port doesn't seem out of the question
2021-02-07T01:32:14 #kisslinux <jedavies> acheam: I considered using a "KISS_ARCH" or similar variable for cross building. I didn't want to have to modify the package manager too much though, so am using a file /etc/os-arch to store architecture instead. Makes cross building easier also, since you can just specify $KISS_ROOT/etc/os-arch in build files.
2021-02-07T01:34:00 #kisslinux <jedavies> acheam: Yeah good point. I guess since most people will now be pointing to the community maintained repos, other architecure support could be done and supported there.
2021-02-07T01:37:50 #kisslinux <acheam> acheam:  It can be yet another question on the survey I suppose
2021-02-07T01:38:02 #kisslinux <acheam> jedavies:  sorry didn't mean to mention myself lol
2021-02-07T01:48:06 #kisslinux <dilyn> 'official port' would entail that dylan approves and works on it, the way i would read it. which he probably wouldn't be interested in
2021-02-07T01:48:07 #kisslinux <jedavies> No worries! Would be great to know what other people think about adapting KISS to different archs / cross building etc. also.
2021-02-07T01:49:33 #kisslinux <jedavies> Yeah I don't think Dylan was interested maintaining any ports himself
2021-02-07T01:54:48 #kisslinux <dilyn> he certainly loves the effort though! that's why he made the section. dylan wanted to see people take his work and do cool things with it, even if it went against the principles he laid out
2021-02-07T01:54:58 #kisslinux <dilyn> the principles just define the work *he* will do, not what we do
2021-02-07T06:18:19 #kisslinux <testuser[m]_> hi
2021-02-07T14:08:10 #kisslinux <acheam> hi testuser[m]_
2021-02-07T18:16:05 #kisslinux <tracer^afk> Hi. Do you have option about building packages with python and perl modules vs using pip and cpan in the build-script?
2021-02-07T18:19:29 #kisslinux <tracer> I must make lime chat clear that it shouldn't change my nickj to afk when the connection drops ā€¦
2021-02-07T18:20:42 #kisslinux <noocsharp> look at the way mesa does it; its a bad idea to use pip or cpan in build scripts as it defeats the point of having checksums
2021-02-07T18:22:13 #kisslinux <tracer> thx, noocsharp, I'll have a look at it. But, why not using cpan and pip? I'm a web developer, I use a lot of composer and npm stuff. The sources are as trustworthy as the checksums of "someone" from the internet.
2021-02-07T18:24:27 #kisslinux <sh4rm4^bnc> imo pip and related language-specific package managers are a cancer
2021-02-07T18:25:36 #kisslinux <sh4rm4^bnc> if a python package can't be built via setup.py and requires pip, i dont ship it
2021-02-07T18:26:50 #kisslinux <tracer> Well, everybody seems to have it own ways of seeing things as cancer. Mine are GTK and docker/podman :)
2021-02-07T18:27:09 #kisslinux <sh4rm4^bnc> gtk+2 is fine, gtk3+ ain't
2021-02-07T18:27:35 #kisslinux <sh4rm4^bnc> but yeah, docker sucks too
2021-02-07T18:27:45 #kisslinux <noocsharp> pip allows the packager to execute arbitrary code, which I suppose if you consider kiss untrusted is not any better. But who actually checks pip packages before installing them?
2021-02-07T18:28:08 #kisslinux <sh4rm4^bnc> "i can't figure out how to compile a thing with system libs, so just put everything into a mini-OS"
2021-02-07T18:29:01 #kisslinux <tracer> I hate gtk since it's first day, it lead to GNOME, and that killed the idea of KDE a the successor of CDE.
2021-02-07T18:29:26 #kisslinux <sh4rm4^bnc> what i hate about pip & co is that they circumvent the system package manager, which can enforce certain guidelines such as where stuff ends up, how manpages are packaged, etc etc
2021-02-07T18:29:52 #kisslinux <tracer> yes, sh4rm4^bnc, that's a nice description of docker :)
2021-02-07T18:30:20 #kisslinux <sh4rm4^bnc> well, KDE sucks even more than gnome: it's a huge clusterfuck of C++ code that needs hours to compile from source
2021-02-07T18:30:21 #kisslinux <noocsharp> well when I use pip i just install everything per-user, which solves that
2021-02-07T18:30:45 #kisslinux <tracer> OK, valid pint, if I'm finished with my system, I'll overhaul my packages.
2021-02-07T18:31:48 #kisslinux <tracer> sh4rm4^bnc: I used KDE sind 0.6.7, was in the barracks that days, no internet, only at the weekend in an internet cafe, downloading loads of disks with new stuff ^^
2021-02-07T18:32:12 #kisslinux <sh4rm4^bnc> i tried to compile my own kdevelop in the KDE4 era, no dice
2021-02-07T18:32:36 #kisslinux <tracer> I don't ind the compile time, Linux is not my primary desktop, it's more just for fun-
2021-02-07T18:33:02 #kisslinux <tracer> During the KDE era I already switched to macOS.
2021-02-07T18:33:51 #kisslinux <sh4rm4^bnc> i had to download like 30 libraries, compile each one by hand, and somewhere around the 20th package after 3 hours the build failed with some spurious error
2021-02-07T18:34:40 #kisslinux <tracer> Sounds like building Fx from source :)
2021-02-07T18:35:02 #kisslinux <sh4rm4^bnc> and my fix to kdevelop was a one liner... should have taken 5 secs to recompile using the existing system libs... but nope
2021-02-07T18:35:37 #kisslinux <sh4rm4^bnc> Fx ?
2021-02-07T18:35:41 #kisslinux <tracer> Thats frustrating, I know.
2021-02-07T18:36:01 #kisslinux <sh4rm4^bnc> that's when i switched to nano :)
2021-02-07T18:36:02 #kisslinux <tracer> Fx ist the official abbreviation for firefox, not FF as many think.
2021-02-07T18:36:10 #kisslinux <sh4rm4^bnc> ah
2021-02-07T18:36:29 #kisslinux <tracer> Nano? Ɩrgs. I prefer vim on the shell.
2021-02-07T18:37:02 #kisslinux <sh4rm4^bnc> i never got friends with a stateful editor
2021-02-07T18:38:47 #kisslinux <tracer> I started UNIX in the 90ies, Linux 1.0.9 just for fun, and then, by fortune one year later Solaris and DEC Unix. Event with my 1 year of Linux I was the one eyed beyond the blinds ā€¦ And vi was there, on every OS.
2021-02-07T18:41:57 #kisslinux <tracer> It looks like I'm in the wrong timezone, for me over the day there's little traffic on this channel, and about 8 pm I usally leave the office to spend time with my wife. Local time is 7:30 pm.
2021-02-07T19:26:58 #kisslinux <mcpcpc[m]> well this was unintentional. the shell/netcat irc client that no one asked for: https://github.com/mcpcpc/ircc
2021-02-07T19:35:19 #kisslinux <acheam> tracer:  I would use pip, just to reduce the need to package tons of dependencies, but thisis highly subjective
2021-02-07T22:43:22 #kisslinux <rtrhkr_ircc> Read `ircc`. Thought "there is no way this works". An yet...
2021-02-07T22:43:36 #kisslinux <retrohacker> :magic:
2021-02-07T22:43:46 #kisslinux <retrohacker> Cool stuff mcpcpc[m]
2021-02-07T22:57:01 #kisslinux <mcpcpc[m]> right?  netcat is pretty nifty. I developed ircc for the purpose of troubleshooting some weird kirc behaviorā€¦ but now i think i prefer using it over kirc. lol.
2021-02-07T23:01:36 #kisslinux <retrohacker> Could make a nice lightweight IRC logger with it. Spawn one for every channel and pipe into something like logrotate.
2021-02-07T23:08:12 #kisslinux <retrohacker> Do you use it in noisy channels? My prompt gets split on any activity.
2021-02-07T23:10:37 #kisslinux <mcpcpc[m]> not really.  yeah. thatā€™s the problem with canonical mode. most text will get clobbered.
2021-02-07T23:15:54 #kisslinux <mcpcpc[m]> thereā€™s a way around it.  sic suffers the same issue.  trying to find the solution that someone recommendedā€¦
2021-02-07T23:30:49 #kisslinux <mcpcpc[m]> meh. nevermind. itā€™s an ugly patch.  womp. anyway, ircc still looks ā€œhackedā€ together. need to clean it up a bit.