💾 Archived View for gemini.ctrl-c.club › ~phoebos › logs › freenode-kisslinux-2021-01-23.txt captured on 2024-05-12 at 16:06:41.
⬅️ Previous capture (2021-12-17)
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2021-01-23T00:03:09 #kisslinux <midfavila1> man I can't wait to get my hands on hyperbola BSD when it becomes available 2021-01-23T00:20:21 #kisslinux * acheam looks up hyperbola bsd 2021-01-23T00:20:39 #kisslinux * acheam joins the hype train 2021-01-23T00:20:42 #kisslinux <acheam> this looks really cool! 2021-01-23T00:20:52 #kisslinux <midfavila1> yup 2021-01-23T00:21:12 #kisslinux <midfavila1> the hyperbola guys are cool 2021-01-23T00:21:21 #kisslinux <midfavila1> they maintain ice*-uxp too 2021-01-23T00:21:58 #kisslinux <midfavila1> i feel like if you could combine kiss with hBSD that would be super awesome 2021-01-23T00:22:29 #kisslinux <midfavila1> of course that would be a massive pain for the person starting the new kiss repo but 2021-01-23T00:28:40 #kisslinux <acheam> I'd love to switch to obsd, but theres pretty much just one thing holding me back: Zoom. It should be illegal to use proprietary software in schools 2021-01-23T00:28:57 #kisslinux <midfavila1> tbh yeah 2021-01-23T00:29:09 #kisslinux <acheam> After COVID maybe I could 2021-01-23T00:29:10 #kisslinux <midfavila1> my school distributes textbooks using a proprietary web platform 2021-01-23T00:29:21 #kisslinux <midfavila1> which is ghfhhdfhfjkfsdjgfjksdghkjsdgsd 2021-01-23T00:29:36 #kisslinux <acheam> That sucks. My whole school runs on gSuite, so its impossible for me to degoogle to any reasonable extent 2021-01-23T00:30:03 #kisslinux <midfavila1> i have a google account, but it's totally seperate from my other computers and networks 2021-01-23T00:30:09 #kisslinux <midfavila1> and only lives on my school-issue chromebook 2021-01-23T00:30:13 #kisslinux <midfavila1> which I only use for school 2021-01-23T00:30:14 #kisslinux <midfavila1> so 2021-01-23T00:30:43 #kisslinux <acheam> I might get a school computer for zoom. My computer has a terrible webcam anyways. 2021-01-23T00:35:09 #kisslinux <midfavila1> it's always good to seperate school/work and personal stuff 2021-01-23T07:32:02 #kisslinux <Blaklinten> acheam: At my university, if we say we do not have equipment (e.g. a computer that don't run Zoom), they are supposed to offer equipment to us. At least when it comes to exams. However, then we probably would need to actually be in school, using their desktops and I would honestly rather just have a crap-laptop with compatible software on to use only for school... 2021-01-23T07:33:04 #kisslinux <Blaklinten> But yeah, they shouldn't force anyone to use proprietary software. 2021-01-23T13:00:12 #kisslinux <acheam> Blaklinten: my school does the same. just don't know a) whether they'll believe that I want a school computer because I don't want to run proprietary software on my own and 2) whether I'm fine with the school spying on me with their own root certificate, management software etc. unfortunately I do need to use zoom in my personal life as well 2021-01-23T13:02:44 #kisslinux <midfavila1> see if you can't pick up a cheapo laptop maybe 2021-01-23T14:18:44 #kisslinux <acheam> midfavila1: good idea 2021-01-23T14:19:47 #kisslinux <midfavila1> (get a CF-C2) 2021-01-23T14:19:49 #kisslinux <midfavila1> (do it) 2021-01-23T14:22:08 #kisslinux <acheam> seems on brand for me Lol 2021-01-23T14:22:29 #kisslinux <midfavila1> i mean they're just awesome laptops 2021-01-23T14:30:19 #kisslinux <acheam> expensive from what I can see though 2021-01-23T14:33:51 #kisslinux <midfavila1> you can get 'em for like 200$ on ebay 2021-01-23T15:16:49 #kisslinux <mcpcpc[m]> tracer: 2021-01-23T15:26:17 #kisslinux <tracer^> yes, mcpcpc[m] 2021-01-23T15:28:17 #kisslinux <mcpcpc[m]> tracer^: ? 2021-01-23T15:28:57 #kisslinux <tracer^> you mentioned me? 2021-01-23T15:31:01 #kisslinux <mcpcpc[m]> err i don’t think so... lol. 2021-01-23T15:32:06 #kisslinux <midfavila1> you did 2021-01-23T15:32:42 #kisslinux <midfavila> you did 2021-01-23T15:32:49 #kisslinux <midfavila> it might have just been a client error or something though 2021-01-23T15:32:52 #kisslinux <midfavila> who knows 2021-01-23T15:33:02 #kisslinux <mcpcpc[m]> my last message was on Jan 5th. 2021-01-23T15:33:09 #kisslinux <mcpcpc[m]> lol. maybe. weird 2021-01-23T15:36:57 #kisslinux <acheam> https://i.imgur.com/PCBQYZg.png 2021-01-23T15:46:18 #kisslinux <Blaklinten> acheam: oh... If it is not too personal to ask, how do you need to use Zoom in private life? 2021-01-23T15:47:30 #kisslinux <acheam> Blaklinten: Its the de facto video conferencing platform where I am, so if I attend any online event, its probably going to be on zoom 2021-01-23T15:51:08 #kisslinux <Blaklinten> Ah, I see. Makes senses then! Where I live, almost nobody (that I know of, company or people) outside of school use Zoom. The chaos is real; Teams, WebEx, Skype, Snapchat, Messenger, Google Meet... And all of these have their on app to download and register on... 2021-01-23T15:51:49 #kisslinux <midfavila> I just email people like a boomer 2021-01-23T15:52:03 #kisslinux <midfavila> no need to sign up for a billion services just to have a conversation 2021-01-23T15:52:43 #kisslinux <Blaklinten> What is the golden three; IRC, Email and HTLM...? :D 2021-01-23T15:52:58 #kisslinux <midfavila> IRC, email, raw sockets 2021-01-23T15:53:15 #kisslinux <acheam> raw sockets for the win. Why use a bloated client when you already have netcat? 2021-01-23T15:53:28 #kisslinux <midfavila> exactly 2021-01-23T15:53:55 #kisslinux <midfavila> although real OGs don't even use TCP/IP 2021-01-23T15:53:59 #kisslinux <midfavila> they use UUCP 2021-01-23T15:55:55 #kisslinux <Blaklinten> Have not heard about that one before... #N00B 2021-01-23T15:56:05 #kisslinux <midfavila> unix to unix copy 2021-01-23T15:56:18 #kisslinux <midfavila> uses hostnames to route traffic 2021-01-23T15:56:24 #kisslinux <acheam> and people talk about FTP being outdated! 2021-01-23T15:56:28 #kisslinux <midfavila> it's totally obsolete 2021-01-23T15:56:54 #kisslinux <midfavila> http://www.uucpnet.org/linux/ 2021-01-23T15:57:15 #kisslinux <midfavila> basically the idea is that you would chain dial-ins to access your target 2021-01-23T15:57:33 #kisslinux <midfavila> so if you're foo, and the target is bar, you might route through alice and bob's computers 2021-01-23T15:57:39 #kisslinux <midfavila> foo!alice!bob!bar 2021-01-23T15:58:05 #kisslinux <midfavila> and then that would call from your machine to alice, who would then call bob, who would finally cal bar 2021-01-23T15:58:12 #kisslinux <midfavila> s/cal/call 2021-01-23T15:58:13 #kisslinux <kissbot> <midfavila> and then that would calll from your machine to alice, who would then call bob, who would finally cal bar 2021-01-23T15:58:23 #kisslinux <midfavila> wow thanks kissbot >.> 2021-01-23T15:59:51 #kisslinux <Blaklinten> Well, seems legit! I would really appreciate a course on "historical UNIX". Fascinating stuff. 2021-01-23T16:00:26 #kisslinux <midfavila> well, AT&T has tapes of interviews with the Bell Labs people from the 70s and stuff 2021-01-23T16:00:34 #kisslinux <midfavila> and then you can check out the computer chronicles 2021-01-23T16:00:41 #kisslinux <midfavila> they have a few episodes on unix from the eighties 2021-01-23T16:00:54 #kisslinux <midfavila> i'd also recommend reading about the UNIX wars and in particular the history of POSIX and X11 2021-01-23T16:01:27 #kisslinux <acheam> i've been collecting a bit of unix history, its a lot of fun 2021-01-23T16:01:34 #kisslinux <acheam> not physical stuff, just documents 2021-01-23T16:01:39 #kisslinux <midfavila> unix is neat, yeah 2021-01-23T16:01:43 #kisslinux <Blaklinten> midfavila: Will do, thanks! 2021-01-23T16:01:48 #kisslinux <midfavila> for a while I've been interested in CP/M as well 2021-01-23T16:02:01 #kisslinux <acheam> I think if you're in this chat room, you can already appreciate the older way of doing things with computers 2021-01-23T16:02:10 #kisslinux <midfavila> suppose so :P 2021-01-23T16:03:02 #kisslinux <midfavila> oh also 2021-01-23T16:03:14 #kisslinux <midfavila> you'll want to read up on the ARPANET and BerkNet 2021-01-23T16:03:18 #kisslinux <Blaklinten> I recently got stuck watching a series on the BSD history and why i.e. FreeBSD is lagging Linux due to the lawsuits back then. Very interesting to know some of the background of why we are where we are today! 2021-01-23T16:03:20 #kisslinux <midfavila> and NYNEX and the BBS scene 2021-01-23T16:03:50 #kisslinux <midfavila> PCs and UNIXes were almost totally orthagonal for most of the 70s and 80s 2021-01-23T16:04:43 #kisslinux <Blaklinten> I just love how some people still use IRC and most do not even know it exists. I mean, even most people in IT seems oblivious 2021-01-23T16:05:03 #kisslinux <midfavila> i think it's because there are people who "work in IT" and then there are hobbyists 2021-01-23T16:05:26 #kisslinux <midfavila> the people who just work with computers don't actually care about them for their own sake, they just want to make money quickly and easily 2021-01-23T16:05:42 #kisslinux <tracer^> I startet with Solaris in the 90ies, and Linux with 1.0.9 :) 2021-01-23T16:06:31 #kisslinux <midfavila> the only "Real UNIX" I've ever used was Tribblix, which is a version of Ilumos (itself a fork of OpenSolaris) 2021-01-23T16:06:47 #kisslinux <tracer^> Just a stupid question: When I got the same packe in different repos, which one gets installed? First in path or higher version? 2021-01-23T16:06:54 #kisslinux <midfavila> first in path 2021-01-23T16:07:05 #kisslinux <midfavila> $KISS_PATH is parsed the same way as $PATH 2021-01-23T16:07:52 #kisslinux <tracer^> ok, thanks. 2021-01-23T16:08:02 #kisslinux <midfavila> Oh!!! Another thing to look into is Project Xanadu 2021-01-23T16:08:07 #kisslinux <Blaklinten> True. Its a bit frustrating to me how little people seems to care about _how_ stuff works as long as it works. Make them very vulnerable to change and news. 2021-01-23T16:08:18 #kisslinux <midfavila> they started experimenting with hypertext in the 50s 2021-01-23T16:08:24 #kisslinux <midfavila> which is absolutely wild 2021-01-23T16:09:48 #kisslinux <midfavila> there are a lot of books I'd recommend too 2021-01-23T16:10:09 #kisslinux <midfavila> Computer Lib/Dream Machine and Hackers: Heroes of the Computer Revolution are both really good 2021-01-23T16:10:26 #kisslinux <Blaklinten> Damn. Were there even computers in the 50s? 2021-01-23T16:10:40 #kisslinux <midfavila> computers in some form have been around for millenium :P 2021-01-23T16:10:48 #kisslinux <midfavila> but yes, there were electronic computers in the 50s 2021-01-23T16:10:53 #kisslinux <midfavila> mostly IBM mainframes 2021-01-23T16:11:05 #kisslinux <acheam> mainframes are insane 2021-01-23T16:11:11 #kisslinux <midfavila> before that there were early machines in the 40s and even 30s 2021-01-23T16:11:15 #kisslinux <acheam> a rabbit hole that goes very deep 2021-01-23T16:11:15 #kisslinux <midfavila> using drum and later core memory 2021-01-23T16:11:21 #kisslinux <midfavila> which is where the term "core dump" comes from, by the by 2021-01-23T16:12:08 #kisslinux <Blaklinten> I guess the work by Turing during ww2 did put some coal to the fire. 2021-01-23T16:12:21 #kisslinux <midfavila> you could argue that the first modern computer in the sense that it was a general purpose programmable device was Charles Babbage's Difference Engine 2021-01-23T16:12:31 #kisslinux <midfavila> and that was back in the 1800s or something 2021-01-23T16:12:50 #kisslinux <midfavila> and yeah ww2 really proved the value of the computer 2021-01-23T16:13:18 #kisslinux <midfavila> 1820 yeah 2021-01-23T16:13:24 #kisslinux <midfavila> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Difference_engine 2021-01-23T16:18:46 #kisslinux <midfavila> man I wish I could afford a set of "The Art of Computer Programming" 2021-01-23T16:19:03 #kisslinux <midfavila> but my local bookstore wants 500$ for a complete set of the available volumes 2021-01-23T16:20:53 #kisslinux <acheam> oh man 2021-01-23T16:21:43 #kisslinux <midfavila> Yeah. It's crazy 2021-01-23T16:22:03 #kisslinux <midfavila> Besides, I doubt I'd understand most of the material, pffft. I'm not that well versed in advanced maths 2021-01-23T16:30:23 #kisslinux <tracer^> Are there any plans for a UsrMerge in KISS? 2021-01-23T16:31:36 #kisslinux <midfavila> that depends on whether we wait for BDFL to come back or if we fork the distro 2021-01-23T16:31:49 #kisslinux <midfavila> everything is on hold until that gets worked out 2021-01-23T16:32:08 #kisslinux <tracer^> OK, thy. 2021-01-23T16:32:21 #kisslinux <midfavila> that reminds me 2021-01-23T16:32:27 #kisslinux <midfavila> I need to try and rip curl out from kiss 2021-01-23T16:32:41 #kisslinux <tracer^> why? 2021-01-23T16:32:41 #kisslinux <midfavila> replace it with axel for that multi-connection performance increase 2021-01-23T16:33:50 #kisslinux <midfavila> https://github.com/axel-download-accelerator/axel 2021-01-23T16:34:58 #kisslinux <tracer^> Sounds promising 2021-01-23T16:35:07 #kisslinux <midfavila> i've been meaning to tinker with it for a while 2021-01-23T16:35:10 #kisslinux <midfavila> it shouldn't be hard 2021-01-23T16:41:45 #kisslinux <midfavila> yeah a simple sed -i s/curl/axel/ works 2021-01-23T16:41:50 #kisslinux <midfavila> just gotta remove the extra flags 2021-01-23T16:44:07 #kisslinux <midfavila> of course, that won't help at all if it's a git repo, but it's still a very noticable speed increase for regular http pulls 2021-01-23T16:56:44 #kisslinux <tracer^> What must I set for KISS_SU when I want to run kiss as root? 2021-01-23T16:57:41 #kisslinux <midfavila> just set whatever you normally do 2021-01-23T16:59:36 #kisslinux <tracer^> I'm on a quite fresh install, I don't remenber how I made it last time ^^ I housed my setup while switching from parallels to VMWare fusion. It took me hours to find out that the disc were SCSI by default instead of SATA :-) 2021-01-23T17:00:20 #kisslinux <midfavila> they're not scsi, they're just handled by the same kernel driver 2021-01-23T17:00:28 #kisslinux <midfavila> but you can set su if you just want something to work out of the box 2021-01-23T17:01:42 #kisslinux <tracer^> My system didn't boot up until I changed from SCSI to SATA. Was very stupid of me. I was able to access them like usual /dev/sda and so on. BTW, I found su, its in util-linux. 2021-01-23T17:02:41 #kisslinux <midfavila> su is provided by busybox by default 2021-01-23T17:03:06 #kisslinux <midfavila> weird if it isn't included in a fresh install 2021-01-23T17:03:18 #kisslinux <tracer^> Id on't use busybox, neither musl. 2021-01-23T17:03:38 #kisslinux <tracer^> s/on't/don't/g 2021-01-23T17:03:39 #kisslinux <kissbot> <tracer^> Id don't use busybox, neither musl. 2021-01-23T17:03:56 #kisslinux <tracer^> I took the tarball from KissD 2021-01-23T17:22:51 #kisslinux <konimex> is it even still maintained? 2021-01-23T17:23:27 #kisslinux <tracer^> glibc is 2.32 and systemd-247 2021-01-23T17:23:33 #kisslinux <konimex> <tracer^ "Are there any plans for a UsrMer"> I think KISS pretty much does UsrMerge from the very beginning of the distro 2021-01-23T17:24:45 #kisslinux <tracer^> Hmm, konimex, I've got a mixture of sources, kissK, GKISS, KISS-KDE, gcommunity, community, my own stuff. it all over the places currently. 2021-01-23T17:25:04 #kisslinux <tracer^> s/kissK/kissD/ 2021-01-23T17:25:05 #kisslinux <kissbot> <tracer^> Hmm, konimex, I've got a mixture of sources, kissD, GKISS, KISS-KDE, gcommunity, community, my own stuff. it all over the places currently. 2021-01-23T17:25:50 #kisslinux <konimex> your base should be kissD, right? 2021-01-23T17:25:59 #kisslinux <tracer^> yes 2021-01-23T17:28:48 #kisslinux <konimex> the baselayout should be the same as KISS (as in /bin, /sbin all point to /usr), as for the SU program if busybox doesn't provide then iirc util-linux should provide a su program 2021-01-23T17:30:33 #kisslinux <konimex> you can set KISS_SU as sls, sudo, doas, or plain su 2021-01-23T17:37:23 #kisslinux <midfavila> cool kids use sls 2021-01-23T17:40:54 #kisslinux <tracer^> I set it to su, I'm used to work as root when i need root for 25 years. You don't change your habits … 2021-01-23T17:41:17 #kisslinux <midfavila> fair 2021-01-23T17:42:57 #kisslinux <tracer^> konimex: Yes, you are right, they are all symlinks. May I hed leftovers from a try with GKISS, but todays I started from scratch. Parallels suxx, only 8GB as RAM. Yesterday my tmpfs was full. Now I switched to Fusion, gave the VM 48 Gigs and the tmpfs 24 of them. Sufficient for fast compiling. 2021-01-23T17:48:16 #kisslinux <tracer^> That is my current KISS_PATH: https://pastebin.24unix.net/pastebin/fiche/x5dhmax2/ 2021-01-23T17:49:03 #kisslinux <tracer^> I must fix that pastebin stuff, url looks ugly, sorry. 2021-01-23T17:53:24 #kisslinux <acheam> tracer: consider envs.sh 2021-01-23T17:54:05 #kisslinux <acheam> 2 character short links 2021-01-23T17:55:01 #kisslinux <tracer> I#m finde with the domain, its mine, but I must build a rewrite rule to get rid of /pastebin/fiche 2021-01-23T17:56:14 #kisslinux <acheam> ah :) 2021-01-23T17:57:29 #kisslinux <tracer> But it's broken currently after i switched to a systemd unit. Too much work on to many building sites :) 2021-01-23T17:58:03 #kisslinux <midfavila> that reminds me, I really need to get around to setting a machine up in my closet to host my stuff... 2021-01-23T18:07:40 #kisslinux <acheam> midfavila: you won't regret it 2021-01-23T18:08:00 #kisslinux <midfavila> I don't doubt it, but I have a lot to learn before I'll be able to get around to it 2021-01-23T18:08:25 #kisslinux <midfavila> plus there's the problem with email providers blocking stuff that isn't on a whitelist... 2021-01-23T18:09:08 #kisslinux <midfavila> one thing that irks me is how everyone is all "nah bro just self-host i n t h e c l o u d" and they don't realize that all they're doing is adding a single point of failure 2021-01-23T18:10:51 #kisslinux <tracer> Do you have a static IP, midfavila? 2021-01-23T18:11:07 #kisslinux <midfavila> no, not yet. I'm looking into whether I can get a business line from my ISP 2021-01-23T18:11:16 #kisslinux <midfavila> otherwise I'd have to pay 200$ a month on top of my regular bill 2021-01-23T18:11:22 #kisslinux <midfavila> which is more than highway robbery 2021-01-23T18:11:40 #kisslinux <tracer> else I can give you access to a relay. 2021-01-23T18:12:30 #kisslinux <midfavila> appreciated, but I'll have to pass on the offer, sorry 2021-01-23T18:12:35 #kisslinux <tracer> That's ugly. As I said yesterday, 49€, 200/100, static IPv4 and a /56. For 79€ it would be gigabit. 2021-01-23T18:12:43 #kisslinux <midfavila> yeah... 2021-01-23T18:12:53 #kisslinux <midfavila> only problem with the business lines is that it's a three-year lease 2021-01-23T18:13:02 #kisslinux <midfavila> and I don't plan on staying in my current apartment for three years 2021-01-23T18:13:13 #kisslinux <tracer> Why no relay? 2021-01-23T18:13:29 #kisslinux <midfavila> Eh... I don't want to impose. 2021-01-23T18:14:17 #kisslinux <tracer> The servers are there anyways … 2021-01-23T18:14:33 #kisslinux * midfavila shrugs 2021-01-23T18:15:21 #kisslinux <tracer> I'm a little bit into hosting, not for end users, but for customers where I make projects with. 2021-01-23T18:15:58 #kisslinux <midfavila> Ah, gotcha. I've never done anything with it before 2021-01-23T18:16:06 #kisslinux <midfavila> So this will partially be a learning exercise 2021-01-23T18:16:41 #kisslinux <tracer> But another KISS problem. I build systemd, grub and want to try it out, but beforehand I'd need a password. "passwd: Permission denied ", I'm still in the chroot. Just rebooting into single user or any better idea? 2021-01-23T18:17:04 #kisslinux <midfavila> see if it's mount read-only 2021-01-23T18:17:15 #kisslinux <midfavila> whatever media contains /etc 2021-01-23T18:17:48 #kisslinux <tracer> So, I don't know when I'll be in the channel, if you need a relay, just ask me under tracer⊙2n 2021-01-23T18:18:00 #kisslinux <midfavila> Cool, thanks 2021-01-23T18:18:15 #kisslinux <tracer> The chroot cannot be readonly, I just built a fresh KISS in it. 2021-01-23T18:18:48 #kisslinux <tracer> it says /dev/sda3 on / type ext4 (rw,relatime) 2021-01-23T18:18:56 #kisslinux <midfavila> Well, if you're root and the media is rw, then I'm not entirely sure 2021-01-23T18:19:01 #kisslinux <midfavila> Never run into that problem before 2021-01-23T18:19:55 #kisslinux <tracer> Maybe a PAM/shadow issue. I'll just try, else I sent a day just with learning but no results :) 2021-01-23T18:20:09 #kisslinux <midfavila> oh geez, if it's PAM I have no clue 2021-01-23T18:20:15 #kisslinux <midfavila> I haven't touched PAM since high school 2021-01-23T18:21:07 #kisslinux <midfavila> well, I say that like it was a long time ago, pfft 2021-01-23T18:21:36 #kisslinux <tracer> OK, first hard disk wont boot. 2021-01-23T18:21:58 #kisslinux <tracer> Second also not. So back into chroot :) 2021-01-23T18:24:33 #kisslinux <tracer> OK, again in chroot, same promlem, permission denied. I'll leave it for tomorrow, will go downstair to my wife, watching Vikings. Have a good evening. 2021-01-23T18:24:52 #kisslinux <midfavila> You too 2021-01-23T23:01:25 #kisslinux <dilyn> allegedly, chromium has wayland native support that doesn't require X11 or patching? time to test 2021-01-23T23:01:33 #kisslinux <dilyn> tyty @git-bruh, whomever you are