💾 Archived View for gemini.ctrl-c.club › ~phoebos › logs › freenode-kisslinux-2020-10-18.txt captured on 2024-05-12 at 16:07:23.
⬅️ Previous capture (2021-12-17)
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2020-10-18T02:08:57 #kisslinux <midfavila> Hi, everyone. I just wanted to see if anyone's run into this issue...
2020-10-18T02:08:57 #kisslinux <midfavila> I've done three fresh installs of KISS today, and every time it's smooth until I reboot into the new install. It gets to the getty and stuff just fine, but my keyboard flat out doesn't respond when I try to enter my login
2020-10-18T02:09:46 #kisslinux <midfavila> (This is with the latest tarball, for reference)
2020-10-18T08:04:22 #kisslinux <obsessive[m]> possibly missing kernel support for HID/USB?
2020-10-18T14:07:36 #kisslinux <midfavila> Mmm... I'm not sure. I tried compiling three fresh kernels (bleeding, stable, and a LTS) all using the same config as my host system (an install of CRUX), before giving up and copying over the kernel and modules. All four attempts failed
2020-10-18T14:35:05 #kisslinux <kciN> midfavila show us your config
2020-10-18T14:35:51 #kisslinux <midfavila> For the kernel? One sec, I'll upload it to hastebin
2020-10-18T14:36:43 #kisslinux <kciN> you can `cat /path/to/.config | curl -F 'f:1=<-' ix.io`
2020-10-18T14:37:13 #kisslinux <midfavila> Oh, huh. Thanks for the tip
2020-10-18T14:37:15 #kisslinux <midfavila> That's pretty neat
2020-10-18T14:38:13 #kisslinux <kciN> it will output link to stdout
2020-10-18T14:38:54 #kisslinux <midfavila> http://ix.io/2B9d
2020-10-18T14:38:57 #kisslinux <kciN> if you use xsel you can do `cat file | curl -F 'f:1=<-' ix.io | xsel -ib`
2020-10-18T14:39:14 #kisslinux <kciN> and it will be copied to your clipboard instead
2020-10-18T14:39:26 #kisslinux <midfavila> Cool
2020-10-18T14:48:19 #kisslinux <kciN> are you using usb keyboard?
2020-10-18T14:48:43 #kisslinux <midfavila> Yeah, I've got a Model M hooked up via a Teensy.
2020-10-18T14:49:05 #kisslinux <midfavila> Don't tell me I missed something stupid in the config?
2020-10-18T14:51:58 #kisslinux <kciN> is your usb monitor module loading at boot?
2020-10-18T14:52:19 #kisslinux <kciN> try compiling it into the kernel
2020-10-18T14:53:12 #kisslinux <midfavila> It does detect the keyboard, which is the weird thing, so I'm not sure if that would be the problem
2020-10-18T14:53:21 #kisslinux <midfavila> I've tried with another, generic USB keyboard and had the same problem
2020-10-18T14:55:10 #kisslinux <kciN> `sed -i 's/CONFIG_USB_MON=./CONFIG_USB_MON=y/g .config`
2020-10-18T14:59:28 #kisslinux <midfavila> Alright, I'll give it a shot. Just gotta recompile and test it out, I guess
2020-10-18T14:59:48 #kisslinux <kciN> should not be a big deal
2020-10-18T15:00:07 #kisslinux <midfavila> Oh, probably not. I'm just perplexed at the whole thing
2020-10-18T15:00:18 #kisslinux <midfavila> Never had this issue before with either CRUX or KISS, using this config
2020-10-18T15:00:54 #kisslinux <kciN> also, it is good practice to keep backups working configs and then run diffs to see where you fucked up
2020-10-18T15:01:22 #kisslinux <midfavila> *nod*
2020-10-18T15:07:45 #kisslinux <kciN> has anyone built xorg-server without cmake/llvm hell?
2020-10-18T15:08:13 #kisslinux <dilynm> Yeah
2020-10-18T15:08:40 #kisslinux <dilynm> Mesa requires llvm but you can drop it if you're special. I forget entirely what it's used for
2020-10-18T15:09:00 #kisslinux <midfavila> If you're telling me I can avoid llvm to get X then I'm all ears
2020-10-18T15:09:14 #kisslinux <midfavila> That'd shave a good thirty minutes off my setup time at least
2020-10-18T15:09:29 #kisslinux <kciN> I am coompiling this shit for an hour or so already
2020-10-18T15:09:42 #kisslinux <kciN> with 10nth gen i5 ffs
2020-10-18T15:09:50 #kisslinux <midfavila> That's rough
2020-10-18T15:10:04 #kisslinux <midfavila> I can't wait to get my new build up... it's a bit excessive, but so worth it
2020-10-18T15:10:18 #kisslinux <midfavila> dual Xeon E5 2670v3
2020-10-18T15:10:41 #kisslinux <midfavila> right now I'm running a 4th gen i5
2020-10-18T15:11:16 #kisslinux <kciN> dilynm show us the way pls
2020-10-18T15:13:02 #kisslinux <sh4rm4^bnc> <dilynm> Mesa requires llvm but you can drop it if you're special. I forget entirely what it's used for
2020-10-18T15:13:09 #kisslinux <sh4rm4^bnc> iirc its for AMD radeon drivers
2020-10-18T15:13:35 #kisslinux <kciN> which I don't fucking have
2020-10-18T15:13:39 #kisslinux <dilynm> If you have 10th gen i5 you don't need xf86-video-intel btw
2020-10-18T15:13:42 #kisslinux <dilynm> https://github.com/dilyn-corner/KISS-me/blob/master/extra/mesa/build
2020-10-18T15:13:45 #kisslinux <dilynm> Is my build
2020-10-18T15:13:49 #kisslinux <midfavila> fuck, I have a radeon card
2020-10-18T15:13:52 #kisslinux <midfavila> guess I can't avoid llvm
2020-10-18T15:13:59 #kisslinux <dilynm> Rip midfavila
2020-10-18T15:15:27 #kisslinux <dilynm> kciN: you might have better luck just checking out the configure options mesa has to really narrow it down
2020-10-18T15:18:18 #kisslinux <kciN> what if I just remove llvm from dependencies file? :)
2020-10-18T15:18:38 #kisslinux <midfavila> if only it were that easy
2020-10-18T15:18:55 #kisslinux <midfavila> Oh, as an aside, do you guys know if GKISS is still a thing?
2020-10-18T15:18:56 #kisslinux <dilynm> Then you'll get a build failure xD
2020-10-18T15:19:08 #kisslinux <sh4rm4^bnc> if you want to use linux without issues, you should get a PC with intel graphics
2020-10-18T15:19:19 #kisslinux <dilynm> Gkiss is technically unmaintained iirc but it shouldmt be too difficult to update
2020-10-18T15:19:35 #kisslinux <sh4rm4^bnc> both AMD and nvidia GPUs cause endless pain
2020-10-18T15:19:41 #kisslinux <kciN> what's gkiss?
2020-10-18T15:19:46 #kisslinux <midfavila> KISS with GNU libc
2020-10-18T15:19:51 #kisslinux <kciN> eww
2020-10-18T15:19:56 #kisslinux <midfavila> I know, heresy
2020-10-18T15:20:10 #kisslinux <midfavila> But some of my programs don't play super nicely with musl
2020-10-18T15:20:45 #kisslinux <kciN> we need 9kiss
2020-10-18T15:20:56 #kisslinux <dilynm> I think it's disingenuous of KDE devs to say they are gungho on Wayland support when they still for xlibs to be installed
2020-10-18T15:20:57 #kisslinux <midfavila> when glendix comes out, maybe, pff
2020-10-18T15:20:58 #kisslinux <dilynm> s m h
2020-10-18T15:21:03 #kisslinux <midfavila> and uh
2020-10-18T15:21:15 #kisslinux <midfavila> don't most programs still require an X server to be run inside wayland or whatever?
2020-10-18T15:21:23 #kisslinux <dilynm> No!
2020-10-18T15:21:26 #kisslinux <midfavila> Huh.
2020-10-18T15:21:35 #kisslinux <dilynm> Just libxkbcommon and xkeyboard-config
2020-10-18T15:21:50 #kisslinux <midfavila> Tbh I probably won't switch to wayland for a while...
2020-10-18T15:22:21 #kisslinux <dilynm> I'm loving it so far
2020-10-18T15:22:27 #kisslinux <midfavila> It's like, GNOME, KDE, and a whole pile of tiling compositors. not interested in changing my whole setup (I use FVWM)
2020-10-18T15:22:55 #kisslinux <dilynm> Or hikari!
2020-10-18T15:22:56 #kisslinux <sh4rm4^bnc> fwiw wayland seems to be worse than X11
2020-10-18T15:23:02 #kisslinux <dilynm> Wayfire is big and nasty but also good
2020-10-18T15:23:13 #kisslinux <midfavila> >big and nasty
2020-10-18T15:23:13 #kisslinux <midfavila> >good
2020-10-18T15:23:13 #kisslinux <midfavila> choose
2020-10-18T15:23:23 #kisslinux <dilynm> I mean
2020-10-18T15:23:28 #kisslinux <dilynm> Good as in > kwin
2020-10-18T15:23:36 #kisslinux <midfavila> that's a pretty low bar to set
2020-10-18T15:23:38 #kisslinux <midfavila> :v
2020-10-18T15:23:44 #kisslinux <dilynm> Lol
2020-10-18T15:23:45 #kisslinux <kciN> Is wayland protocol not simpler than x?
2020-10-18T15:23:55 #kisslinux <midfavila> oh for sure
2020-10-18T15:23:57 #kisslinux <midfavila> it has to be
2020-10-18T15:24:08 #kisslinux <midfavila> I'm convinced that nothing can be more convoluted and crufty than X at this point
2020-10-18T15:24:14 #kisslinux <kciN> I don't get that whole 'wayland is a mess' thing
2020-10-18T15:24:18 #kisslinux <dilynm> Wayland just has a bizarre approach. Because it's just a protocol they offload a lot of work to compositors
2020-10-18T15:24:42 #kisslinux <dilynm> But then wlroots is a pseudo dependency of everything because it's so good
2020-10-18T15:24:58 #kisslinux <kciN> so it's more like wayland compositors suck
2020-10-18T15:25:17 #kisslinux <dilynm> It's more like wayland compositors are overly complicated because they have to be
2020-10-18T15:25:29 #kisslinux <kciN> ah i see
2020-10-18T15:25:33 #kisslinux <kciN> right
2020-10-18T15:25:35 #kisslinux <dilynm> Sowm is <300 LOC, right? Hikari is massive
2020-10-18T15:25:48 #kisslinux <dilynm> Because it has no choice :(
2020-10-18T15:26:05 #kisslinux <kciN> not very unixy philosophy
2020-10-18T15:26:21 #kisslinux <midfavila> (one other thing about kernels; can it be noted that gtar and diffutil are needed at compile-time? it freaks about using busybox's tools)
2020-10-18T15:26:22 #kisslinux <dilynm> In some ways yes, in some ways no
2020-10-18T15:27:00 #kisslinux <dilynm> They aren't build requirements they just make the build look prettier (:
2020-10-18T15:28:04 #kisslinux <midfavila> I dunno man, building without them results in a lack of modules.builtin.modinfo, which seems to break stuff *shrug*
2020-10-18T15:28:36 #kisslinux <dilynm> dylanaraps: when using sown with KDE, I can move the wallpaper as if it were an open image in e.g. feh. Which is hilarious.
2020-10-18T15:28:52 #kisslinux <dilynm> midfavila: does it??
2020-10-18T15:28:57 #kisslinux <midfavila> Yeah.
2020-10-18T15:29:11 #kisslinux <midfavila> I have to install gtar, findutils, and diffutils to get successful builds
2020-10-18T15:29:27 #kisslinux <dilynm> Interesting...
2020-10-18T15:29:29 #kisslinux <midfavila> Busybox's applets don't support the options that the compile process needs
2020-10-18T15:29:43 #kisslinux <midfavila> so it "succeeds", but doesn't generate some of the needed files
2020-10-18T15:29:50 #kisslinux <dilynm> I mean that's been a known problem but you've been the first person who has had actual issues as a result
2020-10-18T15:30:09 #kisslinux <midfavila> I guess I'm establishing all kinds of "first"s today
2020-10-18T15:30:16 #kisslinux <midfavila> Not sure if that's a good thing though, pff
2020-10-18T15:30:22 #kisslinux <sh4rm4^bnc> midfavila, which applet, and which functionality?
2020-10-18T15:30:45 #kisslinux <midfavila> Uhhh, crap, lemme scrollback in my terminal real quick
2020-10-18T15:31:28 #kisslinux <midfavila> (I kinda already went ahead and installed the programs, so now everything is everywheres)
2020-10-18T15:32:04 #kisslinux <midfavila> Yeah, so the first problem is that busybox diff doesn't recognize "I"
2020-10-18T15:32:11 #kisslinux <midfavila> like, as an option
2020-10-18T15:32:20 #kisslinux <sh4rm4^bnc> who uses that feature?
2020-10-18T15:32:31 #kisslinux <midfavila> linus torvalds apparently
2020-10-18T15:32:52 #kisslinux <sh4rm4^bnc> your kernel build applies patches ?
2020-10-18T15:33:10 #kisslinux <kciN> lol linus was cancelled from linux foundation, wasn't he?
2020-10-18T15:33:14 #kisslinux <midfavila> I'm just using a standard tarball and build process, so I've got no clue
2020-10-18T15:33:20 #kisslinux <midfavila> and yeah, he had to step down for a while
2020-10-18T15:33:24 #kisslinux <midfavila> "sensitivity training"
2020-10-18T15:33:40 #kisslinux <sh4rm4^bnc> because he wasn't social justice warrior enough
2020-10-18T15:33:44 #kisslinux <midfavila> pretty much
2020-10-18T15:33:48 #kisslinux <kciN> (((juice)))
2020-10-18T15:33:55 #kisslinux <midfavila> ESR was booted from the OSI too
2020-10-18T15:34:09 #kisslinux <midfavila> and then there was the whole thing with RMS' epstein comments being taken out of context
2020-10-18T15:34:15 #kisslinux <sh4rm4^bnc> these days one has to be politically correct more than everything else
2020-10-18T15:34:17 #kisslinux <midfavila> he ended up homeless 'cuz of that last I heard
2020-10-18T15:34:37 #kisslinux <midfavila> had to resign from the FSF and MIT too
2020-10-18T15:34:40 #kisslinux <sh4rm4^bnc> hail climate change and gender nonsense
2020-10-18T15:34:55 #kisslinux <midfavila> imagine being kicked out from an organization you not only started but led for 30+ years
2020-10-18T15:37:02 #kisslinux <midfavila> honestly if all the bullshit continues with Linux I might just jump ship to HyperbolaBSD when it releases
2020-10-18T15:37:07 #kisslinux <midfavila> maybe that's a bit silly, but meh
2020-10-18T15:37:50 #kisslinux <kciN> midfavila help out with plan9 and jump to that when the time comes
2020-10-18T15:37:59 #kisslinux <midfavila> pfft, if I could I would
2020-10-18T15:38:03 #kisslinux <midfavila> I'm a non-programming brainlet
2020-10-18T15:38:14 #kisslinux <kciN> we just need javascript and hardware support
2020-10-18T15:38:22 #kisslinux <midfavila> yeah those are two things I have zero experience with
2020-10-18T15:38:29 #kisslinux <midfavila> I took like
2020-10-18T15:38:29 #kisslinux <midfavila> two JS classes in highschool
2020-10-18T15:38:33 #kisslinux <midfavila> and that's it
2020-10-18T15:39:00 #kisslinux <kciN> they teach so much crap in school these days...
2020-10-18T15:39:12 #kisslinux <midfavila> I just got out of HS a few months back, it was such a waste of time
2020-10-18T15:39:21 #kisslinux <midfavila> I should have dropped out
2020-10-18T15:39:31 #kisslinux <midfavila> Now I'm stuck in a sysadmin/cysec course in college
2020-10-18T15:39:38 #kisslinux <midfavila> it's been nothing but MS Office so far
2020-10-18T15:39:56 #kisslinux <midfavila> 70% of the course is winshit to boot
2020-10-18T15:40:01 #kisslinux <kciN> >MS
2020-10-18T15:40:11 #kisslinux <kciN> says it all
2020-10-18T15:40:29 #kisslinux <midfavila> Yeah... but I can't drop out at this point
2020-10-18T15:40:47 #kisslinux <midfavila> Stuck with a scholarship and they've already paid the 12k~ for this semester
2020-10-18T15:41:06 #kisslinux <kciN> dilynm why can't I find wlroots in your repos
2020-10-18T15:42:17 #kisslinux <dilynm> check Himmalerin/kiss-wayland
2020-10-18T15:42:41 #kisslinux <midfavila> Speaking of repos, has XDM been packaged? I don't see it in the standard or community repos
2020-10-18T15:48:49 #kisslinux <dilynm> If it's not in GitHub.com/topics/kiss-repo then probably no
2020-10-18T15:49:07 #kisslinux <kciN> dilynm and I should go to your repo to install mesa without llvm?
2020-10-18T15:49:11 #kisslinux <midfavila> Yeah, I figured. Oh well, I'll package it later I guess
2020-10-18T15:49:32 #kisslinux <kciN> btw how do I tell kiss to install package from a specific repo?
2020-10-18T15:49:36 #kisslinux <dilynm> I'm using haswell CPU not 10th gen so my build might be bad for you
2020-10-18T15:50:07 #kisslinux <dilynm> Kiss builds the first package it finds in $KISS_PATH unless a package is in $PWD
2020-10-18T15:50:30 #kisslinux <kciN> I see
2020-10-18T15:50:56 #kisslinux <dilynm> (rather, `kiss b` will build the package if you're currently in that pkgs directory, but kiss b PKG will build the first one it finds in path)
2020-10-18T15:51:13 #kisslinux <kciN> I will try anyway and eagerly report every issue :)
2020-10-18T15:52:22 #kisslinux <midfavila> real talk, is there much reason to upgrade to a post-Haswell Intel CPU when AMD is kicking their ass so hard right now?
2020-10-18T15:54:04 #kisslinux <kciN> dilynm, dude, theres llvm in your mesa dependencies
2020-10-18T15:54:16 #kisslinux <dilynm> Sure but I'm using wyverkiss
2020-10-18T15:54:23 #kisslinux <dilynm> That build builds without llvm
2020-10-18T15:54:38 #kisslinux <kciN> elaborate pls
2020-10-18T15:54:47 #kisslinux <dilynm> The good reason is that haswell is bad integrated graphics midfavila xD
2020-10-18T15:55:02 #kisslinux <midfavila> that's not much of a reason :v
2020-10-18T15:55:04 #kisslinux <dilynm> Wyverkiss uses llvm/clang instead of gcc
2020-10-18T15:55:16 #kisslinux <dilynm> But I used it just fine on regular KISS
2020-10-18T15:55:28 #kisslinux <midfavila> how much does using llvm as your cc break stuff, tho
2020-10-18T15:55:39 #kisslinux <kciN> okay, wait, so no escape from llvm?
2020-10-18T15:55:43 #kisslinux <dilynm> Basically 0
2020-10-18T15:55:51 #kisslinux <dilynm> You can definitely do it my man
2020-10-18T15:55:58 #kisslinux <midfavila> hm
2020-10-18T15:56:05 #kisslinux <dilynm> Use that build script and drop llvm from the deps list and watch it not fail
2020-10-18T15:56:06 #kisslinux <kciN> fuck I'm confused
2020-10-18T15:56:19 #kisslinux <dilynm> Lmao
2020-10-18T15:56:37 #kisslinux <kciN> I cloned ur repo
2020-10-18T15:56:42 #kisslinux <kciN> cd'd into mesa
2020-10-18T15:56:47 #kisslinux <kciN> ran kiss b
2020-10-18T15:57:00 #kisslinux <kciN> it attempted to install llvm
2020-10-18T15:57:10 #kisslinux <kciN> what should i run instead
2020-10-18T15:57:12 #kisslinux <midfavila> drop llvm from the deps
2020-10-18T15:57:46 #kisslinux <kciN> wat?
2020-10-18T15:58:16 #kisslinux <midfavila> edit the depends file in the package directory to not include llvm
2020-10-18T15:58:25 #kisslinux <dilynm> Well first, it shouldn't be trying to do that
2020-10-18T15:58:37 #kisslinux <dilynm> Second, it won't be able to find some of those deps. Like byacc and wayland
2020-10-18T15:59:09 #kisslinux <konimex> also dilyn's repo linked to a fixed directory (wyverkiss) and that will fail, you need to copy/symlink checksums, sources, and version from elsewhere (usually KISS' main repo), you also need to remove any byacc-related patches
2020-10-18T15:59:12 #kisslinux <dilynm> Just kiss-fork mesa, and then mv by build into that fork, and then delete llvm from the deps in that fork
2020-10-18T15:59:48 #kisslinux <dilynm> Again I think the best option for you is to use meson configure in mesa's source tree to see what options are best for you xD
2020-10-18T15:59:57 #kisslinux <dilynm> Because my build will also not include x support
2020-10-18T16:00:20 #kisslinux <kciN> fuck x with it's segfaults
2020-10-18T16:00:24 #kisslinux <midfavila> what's the point of wyverkiss? I've never tried it, but the tagline seems to make it redundant
2020-10-18T16:00:25 #kisslinux <konimex> man, flang doesn't play well with 8 GB RAM
2020-10-18T16:00:28 #kisslinux <kciN> I am going wayland this time
2020-10-18T16:00:55 #kisslinux <dilynm> Flang is wild
2020-10-18T16:01:25 #kisslinux <dilynm> Wyverkiss is a fun way to waste time
2020-10-18T16:01:25 #kisslinux <kciN> meson.build:1491:2: ERROR: Subproject directory not found and llvm.wrap file not found
2020-10-18T16:01:37 #kisslinux <konimex> midfavila: basically a "GNU-free" KISS (at runtime at least), what's the point? basically a "why not", I guess
2020-10-18T16:01:53 #kisslinux <midfavila> nah, like, I get that
2020-10-18T16:02:06 #kisslinux <midfavila> and using suckless instead of GNU or whatever is fair because GNU is super crufty
2020-10-18T16:02:27 #kisslinux <midfavila> but it's an alternative rootfs in the event that kiss goes GNU, which outside of GCC it doesn't afaik
2020-10-18T16:02:36 #kisslinux <midfavila> at least as far as I understand it
2020-10-18T16:03:04 #kisslinux <konimex> well there's more of GNU outside of GCC, like bison, m4, ncurses, etc.
2020-10-18T16:03:35 #kisslinux <midfavila> I mean, fair enough, I guess.
2020-10-18T16:04:03 #kisslinux <kciN> what's the bison btw?
2020-10-18T16:04:15 #kisslinux <kciN> I don't get how it's useful
2020-10-18T16:04:23 #kisslinux <midfavila> ...on the topic of userland, is it possible to replace busybox completely without using GNU?
2020-10-18T16:04:32 #kisslinux <midfavila> I've not had success with it
2020-10-18T16:05:12 #kisslinux <kciN> I have replaced busybox awk with the one true awk with great success
2020-10-18T16:05:20 #kisslinux <konimex> replace busybox with something else or what?
2020-10-18T16:05:29 #kisslinux <midfavila> Oh, for sure, but I'm talking strip bbox out entirely
2020-10-18T16:06:14 #kisslinux <kciN> did you fiddle with 9base?
2020-10-18T16:06:57 #kisslinux <midfavila> Yeah, I checked it out
2020-10-18T16:07:07 #kisslinux <kciN> and?
2020-10-18T16:07:18 #kisslinux <midfavila> It's pretty cool, but it's not anywhere close to being able to replace all of bbox's functions
2020-10-18T16:07:50 #kisslinux <midfavila> (admittedly I'm not terribly experienced with alternative userlands, so I'm not fully aware of what's needed...)
2020-10-18T16:12:11 #kisslinux <midfavila> Oop, ran into a packaging error. usbutils fails to build without autotools installed
2020-10-18T16:18:10 #kisslinux <dilynm> My dream is an MIT bb alternative
2020-10-18T16:18:18 #kisslinux <dilynm> Gimme toybox with a nicer maintainer (:
2020-10-18T16:38:09 #kisslinux <midfavila> O-kay, so, just gave it another couple of shots... even with the sed command posted earlier, still getting the same errors
2020-10-18T16:38:14 #kisslinux <midfavila> I'm gonna try using an older version of KISS
2020-10-18T16:39:04 #kisslinux <kciN> what's with `ERROR File '/path/to/file' exists on filesystem but isn't owned` when I'm trying to swap alternatives?
2020-10-18T16:41:28 #kisslinux <kciN> fuck, 9base's grep crashes kiss.
2020-10-18T16:41:48 #kisslinux <kciN> dylan should really make his c version work
2020-10-18T16:46:52 #kisslinux <kciN> okay, so I managed to swap busybox utils with corresponding 9base alternatives. Now I will try to install stuff with these. wish me good luck, I will need it :)
2020-10-18T16:48:02 #kisslinux <midfavila> Have fun
2020-10-18T16:49:35 #kisslinux <kciN> yeah, the moment I tried to install anything I got sed: Command garbled: s/[-+.]/_/g
2020-10-18T16:49:54 #kisslinux <midfavila> lel
2020-10-18T16:49:59 #kisslinux <midfavila> That sucks
2020-10-18T16:50:08 #kisslinux <kciN> indeed
2020-10-18T16:51:27 #kisslinux <midfavila> ...oh, hey, there actually __is__ someone maintaining GKISS
2020-10-18T16:52:08 #kisslinux <kciN> `sed: Unknown flag: i` in logs, just as suspected
2020-10-18T16:52:46 #kisslinux <midfavila> You could probably modify kiss to be strictly posix-compliant in that sense without much effort
2020-10-18T16:58:00 #kisslinux <kciN> nope, it's not in kiss script
2020-10-18T16:58:16 #kisslinux <midfavila> Oh, it must be in the build script for that package then
2020-10-18T16:58:28 #kisslinux <sh4rm4^bnc> dilynm, what's so important about the license chosen by bb ?
2020-10-18T16:59:04 #kisslinux <kciN> in the log it says `patching file main.c` before complaining about sed
2020-10-18T16:59:16 #kisslinux <midfavila> yeah that sounds like it's in the build script
2020-10-18T16:59:35 #kisslinux <midfavila> afaik it's standard practice for KISS packages to prefer sed over patchfiles for small changes to source code
2020-10-18T16:59:50 #kisslinux <kciN> yeap
2020-10-18T17:00:09 #kisslinux <kciN> i'll make it posix compliant and make pull request
2020-10-18T17:00:25 #kisslinux <midfavila> based
2020-10-18T17:05:13 #kisslinux <kciN> i'm getting `./configure: permission denied`; not based.
2020-10-18T17:05:28 #kisslinux <Rio6> gkiss is not dead?
2020-10-18T17:05:31 #kisslinux <midfavila> nope
2020-10-18T17:06:24 #kisslinux <midfavila> some dude named git-bruh is maintaining it
2020-10-18T17:06:28 #kisslinux <midfavila> https://github.com/gkisslinux/grepo/releases
2020-10-18T17:06:30 #kisslinux <midfavila> check it
2020-10-18T17:06:30 #kisslinux <Rio6> grepo heh
2020-10-18T17:12:11 #kisslinux <midfavila> aaaaaaaaand m4 won't build under gkiss
2020-10-18T17:12:17 #kisslinux <midfavila> so much for maintaining it
2020-10-18T17:13:48 #kisslinux <kciN> FAKKEN MADE IT
2020-10-18T17:13:55 #kisslinux <midfavila> grats
2020-10-18T17:14:01 #kisslinux <kciN> danke
2020-10-18T17:14:10 #kisslinux <dilynm> sh4rm4^bc: just prefer nongpl licenses
2020-10-18T17:14:15 #kisslinux <Rio6> do musl and glibc have different symbol names? why doesn't an app built on one rum one the other, if they're all using the standard functions
2020-10-18T17:14:32 #kisslinux <midfavila> I'd guess that part of it is just ld freaking out
2020-10-18T17:14:50 #kisslinux <sh4rm4^bnc> dilynm, but how does it affect you?
2020-10-18T17:15:01 #kisslinux <midfavila> if it can't find the exact libraries it's looking for (or at least dummy files /symlinks) it'll break immediately
2020-10-18T17:15:17 #kisslinux <Rio6> but if everything has the same file name it should work right?
2020-10-18T17:15:22 #kisslinux <Rio6> at least for simple apps
2020-10-18T17:15:27 #kisslinux <midfavila> I mean, maybe
2020-10-18T17:15:31 #kisslinux <midfavila> I know that busybox can do that
2020-10-18T17:15:33 #kisslinux <midfavila> which is weird
2020-10-18T17:15:42 #kisslinux <Rio6> i'll probably try it
2020-10-18T17:15:47 #kisslinux <midfavila> post results
2020-10-18T17:15:58 #kisslinux <Rio6> install glibc, then kiss a libraries one by one
2020-10-18T17:16:03 #kisslinux <Rio6> see if it breaks
2020-10-18T17:16:06 #kisslinux <dilynm> It effects me in that it conflicts with my preference to not use GPL software
2020-10-18T17:16:23 #kisslinux <midfavila> I bet dilyn is one of those dirty BSD license heathens :P
2020-10-18T17:16:24 #kisslinux <kciN> dilynm based
2020-10-18T17:17:06 #kisslinux <dilynm> I like MIT for no reason other than :shrugemoji:
2020-10-18T17:17:10 #kisslinux <dilynm> I am based af
2020-10-18T17:17:15 #kisslinux <midfavila> MIT is pretty based yeah
2020-10-18T17:17:59 #kisslinux <midfavila> god it's 2pm where I am and I haven't done fuckin' a n y t h i n g productive
2020-10-18T17:18:07 #kisslinux <kciN> public domain is the ultimate redpill https://unlicense.org/
2020-10-18T17:20:04 #kisslinux <midfavila> tbh I'd like to see more stuff public domain'd but I'm also an edgy little shit that doesn't want to give corporations any more power or resources
2020-10-18T17:20:58 #kisslinux <kciN> `sed -i` is the virus
2020-10-18T17:22:01 #kisslinux <kciN> llvm/cmake are cancer
2020-10-18T17:22:09 #kisslinux <midfavila> cmake is a pain
2020-10-18T17:22:15 #kisslinux <midfavila> but it's not as painful as meson imo
2020-10-18T17:22:32 #kisslinux <midfavila> I still don't know how to reconfigure projects without manually editing the options file
2020-10-18T17:22:35 #kisslinux <kciN> just use `mk`, people.
2020-10-18T17:22:51 #kisslinux <midfavila> just use gcc and ld manually smh
2020-10-18T17:24:07 #kisslinux <kciN> there's this nice symbol - `*` which can get most of the job done.
2020-10-18T17:24:17 #kisslinux <midfavila> that's too simple
2020-10-18T17:24:19 #kisslinux <midfavila> you madman
2020-10-18T17:24:40 #kisslinux <midfavila> ls
2020-10-18T17:24:42 #kisslinux <midfavila> fuck
2020-10-18T17:24:44 #kisslinux <kciN> example - `cc *.c -o myprogram`
2020-10-18T17:24:44 #kisslinux <midfavila> >:V
2020-10-18T17:25:04 #kisslinux <midfavila> you're reaching levels of UNIX that shouldn't even be possible
2020-10-18T17:25:47 #kisslinux <sh4rm4^bnc> dilynm, that seems pretty irrational
2020-10-18T17:25:56 #kisslinux <kciN> you can then store files in >>DIRECTORIES<< and do `cc ./dir/* -o myprog`
2020-10-18T17:26:39 #kisslinux <kciN> if you want some weird sorting you can also use awk like this:
2020-10-18T17:27:29 #kisslinux <kciN> `cc $(ls | awk '...') -o myprog`
2020-10-18T17:28:05 #kisslinux <sh4rm4^bnc> kciN, however that defeats parallelism
2020-10-18T17:28:41 #kisslinux <kciN> how exactly?
2020-10-18T17:28:54 #kisslinux <sh4rm4^bnc> one could do ls -1 | jobflow -j 16 -exec cc -c {}
2020-10-18T17:29:21 #kisslinux <midfavila> jobflow?
2020-10-18T17:29:31 #kisslinux <sh4rm4^bnc> because if you have a hundred c files and 16 cores, you dont wanna wait for one huge cc process using only one core
2020-10-18T17:29:50 #kisslinux <sh4rm4^bnc> http://github.com/rofl0r/jobflow
2020-10-18T17:29:57 #kisslinux <midfavila> Thanks
2020-10-18T17:29:59 #kisslinux <sh4rm4^bnc> it's what sabotage uses for parallel downloads
2020-10-18T17:30:08 #kisslinux <sh4rm4^bnc> (only if installed though)
2020-10-18T17:30:18 #kisslinux <midfavila> hm
2020-10-18T17:30:19 #kisslinux <kciN> I don't have much experience with paralelism but I believe one can make it work with simple make/mk
2020-10-18T17:30:32 #kisslinux <midfavila> I feel like writing a download manager could be a good exercise to practice programming
2020-10-18T17:31:14 #kisslinux <dilynm> I mean if we want to have a debate on license efficacy we certainly could, but that sounds dangerous and toxic
2020-10-18T17:31:37 #kisslinux <midfavila> the WTFPL is clearly the best
2020-10-18T17:31:48 #kisslinux <sh4rm4^bnc> dilynm, i'm just trying to figure out a rational reason why one shouldnt use GPL for apps
2020-10-18T17:31:49 #kisslinux <dilynm> I don't think my choice is *wrong*, and I don't think a pursuit of rationalism is inherently *good*, and I'm unconvinced by the arguments in favor of it
2020-10-18T17:32:07 #kisslinux <sh4rm4^bnc> i agree that GPL is a no-go for libs
2020-10-18T17:32:11 #kisslinux <dilynm> Because they don't want to use GPL is a sufficient reason to not use GPL
2020-10-18T17:32:44 #kisslinux <dilynm> The motivation for not wanting to can be as simple as they don't want to require others to use GPL. That is to say, they don't want to use GPL.
2020-10-18T17:33:10 #kisslinux <kciN> I heard gpl or any other open license is worthless as author can revoke them freely
2020-10-18T17:33:23 #kisslinux <sh4rm4^bnc> only if all authors agree
2020-10-18T17:33:31 #kisslinux <midfavila> if you retain rights to code you contribute to a project you can yank at any time, afaik
2020-10-18T17:33:43 #kisslinux <kciN> yeah
2020-10-18T17:33:44 #kisslinux <midfavila> that's why there was a big shitshow a while back with devs threatening to gut linux
2020-10-18T17:33:47 #kisslinux <midfavila> over the CoC
2020-10-18T17:33:51 #kisslinux <sh4rm4^bnc> and you can't just retro-actively revoke licenses of published stuff
2020-10-18T17:33:58 #kisslinux <dilynm> Apparently the CUPS author left Apple and then forked CUPS. Again.
2020-10-18T17:34:13 #kisslinux <midfavila> reject modernity
2020-10-18T17:34:13 #kisslinux <midfavila> use lpr
2020-10-18T17:34:14 #kisslinux <sh4rm4^bnc> unless you do like gnu and exchange release tarball
2020-10-18T17:34:24 #kisslinux <kciN> CoC more like cock
2020-10-18T17:34:31 #kisslinux <sh4rm4^bnc> but owners of the old release tarballs can still stick to their license
2020-10-18T17:37:10 #kisslinux <kciN> http://ix.io/2Bau
2020-10-18T17:38:06 #kisslinux <sh4rm4^bnc> i don't think 9base sed is better than busybox'
2020-10-18T17:39:04 #kisslinux <kciN> sh4rm4^bnc 9base is 66kSLOC
2020-10-18T17:39:27 #kisslinux <sh4rm4^bnc> and it's build process is a huge wtf
2020-10-18T17:39:28 #kisslinux <kciN> I will run benchmarks later
2020-10-18T17:39:40 #kisslinux <kciN> really?
2020-10-18T17:40:01 #kisslinux <sh4rm4^bnc> yeah. my point though was posix compat and being bugfree
2020-10-18T17:41:22 #kisslinux <sh4rm4^bnc> you need quite some hacking to get it building: https://github.com/sabotage-linux/sabotage/blob/master/pkg/9base
2020-10-18T17:43:37 #kisslinux <kciN> `# only install things not sufficently well-provided by busybox`
2020-10-18T17:44:22 #kisslinux <sh4rm4^bnc> right, because i came to the conclusion that most 9base tools are too quirky
2020-10-18T17:45:16 #kisslinux <sh4rm4^bnc> they may be cool on their own, but insufficient to build a real world distro with them
2020-10-18T17:46:10 #kisslinux <kciN> its not them being quirky, it's the other implementations
2020-10-18T17:46:16 #kisslinux <sh4rm4^bnc> just like i came to the conclusion that whether i like it or not, posix lex and byacc are insufficient to build all pkgs we need, so flex and bison need to be installed anyhow
2020-10-18T17:47:01 #kisslinux <kciN> for example, sed is literally stream edit. it has nothing to do with writing files
2020-10-18T17:47:21 #kisslinux <kciN> also, what's bison and how is it useful?
2020-10-18T17:47:46 #kisslinux <midfavila> https://www.gnu.org/software/bison/
2020-10-18T17:47:47 #kisslinux <kciN> I tried searching the web, but could not find much info
2020-10-18T17:47:48 #kisslinux <sh4rm4^bnc> yes, but if it doesn't support the options used by build systems, it's insufficient
2020-10-18T17:48:04 #kisslinux <sh4rm4^bnc> bison is an "advanced" yacc
2020-10-18T17:48:17 #kisslinux <kciN> `Bison is a general-purpose parser generator that converts an annotated context-free grammar into a deterministic LR or generalized LR (GLR) parser employing LALR(1) parser tables. ` the fuk
2020-10-18T17:48:32 #kisslinux <kciN> yeah and what's yacc?
2020-10-18T17:48:43 #kisslinux <sh4rm4^bnc> it turns a grammar into a C file
2020-10-18T17:49:01 #kisslinux <sh4rm4^bnc> like this one https://github.com/rofl0r/re2r/blob/master/ere.y
2020-10-18T17:49:28 #kisslinux <sh4rm4^bnc> 9base makes good use of its own yacc
2020-10-18T17:49:54 #kisslinux <sh4rm4^bnc> in fact, some of its "applets" require their own yacc, and can't be built with other impls
2020-10-18T17:50:01 #kisslinux <kciN> so it's like weird language which gets translated into c?
2020-10-18T17:50:10 #kisslinux <sh4rm4^bnc> kinda
2020-10-18T17:50:21 #kisslinux <kciN> sounds weird
2020-10-18T17:50:45 #kisslinux <sh4rm4^bnc> it has a couple of advantages over writing a parser from hand
2020-10-18T17:51:26 #kisslinux <sh4rm4^bnc> first the resulting parser is quite fast, second it can be proven that it strictly confirms to the grammar spec
2020-10-18T17:52:31 #kisslinux <kciN> interesting
2020-10-18T17:54:24 #kisslinux <kciN> and it's obviously much easier to write parsers with yacc then by hand
2020-10-18T17:55:00 #kisslinux <sh4rm4^bnc> not necessarily, in fact it took me quite some time to wrap my head around yacc parsers
2020-10-18T17:55:35 #kisslinux <Rio6> why make languages when it's getting compiled to c anyways
2020-10-18T17:55:54 #kisslinux <sh4rm4^bnc> in order to learn it one basically needs to read a book about it and type down the examples by hand to get practice
2020-10-18T17:55:55 #kisslinux <kciN> just as it took you time to wrap your head around c
2020-10-18T17:56:08 #kisslinux <sh4rm4^bnc> no, i picked C up on the fly
2020-10-18T17:56:40 #kisslinux <kciN> no you didn't
2020-10-18T17:56:52 #kisslinux <sh4rm4^bnc> how can you know ? :)
2020-10-18T17:57:20 #kisslinux <kciN> I'm a stranger on the internet, I know everything!
2020-10-18T17:57:52 #kisslinux <sh4rm4^bnc> i just translated some of my old pascal programs to C and after maybe 200 lines of looking "how to do X" in the search engines it basically kept flowing on its own
2020-10-18T17:57:52 #kisslinux <dilynm> I trust it
2020-10-18T17:58:38 #kisslinux <kciN> Okay, I see what you mean now.
2020-10-18T17:59:13 #kisslinux <Rio6> it's a language translator
2020-10-18T17:59:48 #kisslinux <kciN> like you can write JSON parsers in yacc
2020-10-18T18:00:07 #kisslinux <kciN> Is there a javascript parser in yacc?
2020-10-18T18:00:15 #kisslinux <kciN> that would be interesting
2020-10-18T18:09:46 #kisslinux <sh4rm4^bnc> kciN, https://github.com/Myrannas/jscrt/blob/master/res/javascript/parser.grammar
2020-10-18T18:10:00 #kisslinux <sh4rm4^bnc> it uses C++ but should give you the idea
2020-10-18T18:34:45 #kisslinux <kciN> cool, thanks
2020-10-18T20:36:20 #kisslinux <midfavila> So, tried again with GKISS and an old version of KISS... still not getting keyboard input when booting into the tty
2020-10-18T20:36:36 #kisslinux <midfavila> LILO breaks when built on KISS, too, which is... a thing
2020-10-18T21:19:02 #kisslinux <dilynm> How is your keyboard connected to your computer? And what keyboard is it?
2020-10-18T21:20:03 #kisslinux <midfavila> USB, Model M over a Teensy-based Soarer's converter
2020-10-18T21:20:10 #kisslinux <midfavila> but I've also tried using a generic USB board
2020-10-18T21:20:35 #kisslinux <midfavila> both of them work in my host OS (CRUX) so it's not a hardware issue
2020-10-18T21:20:49 #kisslinux <midfavila> and both OSes are booting using the same kernel and firmware
2020-10-18T21:21:31 #kisslinux <dilynm> Does dmesg report anything about a keyboard in crux?
2020-10-18T21:22:21 #kisslinux <midfavila> grep'ing for input, it recognizes my keyboard and trackball
2020-10-18T21:22:30 #kisslinux <dilynm> As what?
2020-10-18T21:22:50 #kisslinux <dilynm> If crux is loading them as modules you can peak at lsmod to see what's loaded and figure out if anything is missing there
2020-10-18T21:22:57 #kisslinux <dilynm> Do you know if crux loads it as a module?
2020-10-18T21:22:59 #kisslinux <midfavila> [ 1.863054] hid-generic 0003:16C0:047D.0002: input,hidraw1: USB HID v1.11 Keyboard [Soarer Soarer's Keyboard Converter] on usb-0000:00:14.0-3/input1
2020-10-18T21:23:03 #kisslinux <midfavila> sorry for the textblock
2020-10-18T21:23:06 #kisslinux <midfavila> and I doubt it
2020-10-18T21:23:26 #kisslinux <midfavila> besides, even if that was the case, it doesn't explain the deal with the generic USB board I've got
2020-10-18T21:23:35 #kisslinux <dilynm> I'm uncertain of how crux works. Does it use a initramfs?
2020-10-18T21:23:43 #kisslinux <midfavila> Nah. Not by default
2020-10-18T21:23:51 #kisslinux <midfavila> I compile all my modules into my kernel anyways
2020-10-18T21:23:58 #kisslinux <dilynm> Hmhmhm
2020-10-18T21:24:13 #kisslinux <midfavila> Do you think it could be something with eudev?
2020-10-18T21:24:56 #kisslinux <dilynm> Unlikely because mdev is ran at boot
2020-10-18T21:25:22 #kisslinux <dilynm> You could try building eudev and starting the service but I doubt it would fix this
2020-10-18T21:25:29 #kisslinux <midfavila> following the install guide I always install eudev
2020-10-18T21:25:33 #kisslinux <dilynm> My best guess is you're just missing some small thing in the kernel
2020-10-18T21:25:48 #kisslinux <midfavila> but then it wouldn't work in CRUX either. both kernels use the same config
2020-10-18T21:25:56 #kisslinux <dilynm> But if you copy pasted the config from crux and it doesn't have anything as a module then I'm not sure
2020-10-18T21:26:07 #kisslinux <midfavila> hm
2020-10-18T21:26:39 #kisslinux <obsessive[m]> does numlock light up?
2020-10-18T21:26:59 #kisslinux <midfavila> On the spare keyboard, yeah, during init
2020-10-18T21:27:16 #kisslinux <dilynm> Can you change TTYs?
2020-10-18T21:27:20 #kisslinux <midfavila> Nope
2020-10-18T21:27:26 #kisslinux <midfavila> I can't get any keyboard IO at all
2020-10-18T21:27:46 #kisslinux <midfavila> Even though the tty has logs reporting that my board was detected
2020-10-18T21:27:50 #kisslinux <obsessive[m]> can you toggle any light on/off?
2020-10-18T21:27:53 #kisslinux <dilynm> Try a different USB port? XD
2020-10-18T21:28:01 #kisslinux <midfavila> already tried four, pfft
2020-10-18T21:28:04 #kisslinux <midfavila> and no to the lights
2020-10-18T21:28:25 #kisslinux <midfavila> I'm just really baffled because I've tried everything at this point
2020-10-18T21:28:35 #kisslinux <obsessive[m]> sounds like it froze then not just keyboard
2020-10-18T21:28:40 #kisslinux <midfavila> Nope.
2020-10-18T21:28:49 #kisslinux <midfavila> The input "blinker" is still active
2020-10-18T21:29:02 #kisslinux <midfavila> Like, the little block cursor
2020-10-18T21:29:44 #kisslinux <obsessive[m]> can you ssh into it?
2020-10-18T21:30:05 #kisslinux <midfavila> if I had a null-modem on me I could hook my laptop up as a serial terminal, but alas, the one piece of old hardware I don't have
2020-10-18T21:30:05 #kisslinux <midfavila> and no, this is my only pc
2020-10-18T21:30:38 #kisslinux <obsessive[m]> ssh on mobile
2020-10-18T21:31:01 #kisslinux <midfavila> eh.
2020-10-18T21:31:27 #kisslinux <sh4rm4^bnc> the crux kernel is the same version and same config ?
2020-10-18T21:31:32 #kisslinux <midfavila> Yeah.
2020-10-18T21:32:26 #kisslinux <midfavila> The only other thing I could think of is that the kernel is on /dev/sda, and KISS is on /dev/sdc, just because I didn't want to wipe out my main OS to install a potentially non-working system, but if it was issues with the kernel it just wouldn't boot at all... right?
2020-10-18T21:32:42 #kisslinux <obsessive[m]> right
2020-10-18T21:32:43 #kisslinux <sh4rm4^bnc> well then it must be a userland issue
2020-10-18T21:32:52 #kisslinux <midfavila> Hmm...
2020-10-18T21:33:12 #kisslinux <midfavila> I've gotten KISS to boot on this same configuration before, which just makes it weirder
2020-10-18T21:33:28 #kisslinux <sh4rm4^bnc> if all drivers are statically linked into the kernel, it can't even be a module load issue
2020-10-18T21:34:23 #kisslinux <obsessive[m]> because its built in and not a module haha
2020-10-18T21:35:00 #kisslinux <midfavila> And it's not firmware, since it just uses standard USB stuff, nothing fancy
2020-10-18T21:35:42 #kisslinux <obsessive[m]> you could investigate dmesg and such from a livecd
2020-10-18T21:35:57 #kisslinux <midfavila> I was thinking something similar
2020-10-18T23:26:50 #kisslinux <konimex> at some point just do a localmodconfig and be done with it
2020-10-18T23:43:13 #kisslinux <dilynm> I think KISS now has the smallest footprint and most up-to-date KDE of any distro
2020-10-18T23:43:16 #kisslinux <dilynm> How cute