💾 Archived View for gemini.ctrl-c.club › ~phoebos › logs › kisslinux-2021-07-07.txt captured on 2024-05-10 at 14:23:51.
⬅️ Previous capture (2021-12-17)
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[2021-07-07T00:05:10Z] <claudia> acheam: you can set the maxjobs for updating in your sfeedrc ;)
[2021-07-07T00:07:06Z] <acheam> maybe I should consider reading documentation before I do things?
[2021-07-07T00:07:31Z] <claudia> just copy the default sfeedrc is enough ;)
[2021-07-07T00:07:48Z] <acheam> so basically I reimplemented half of sfeed's functionality in a shitty shell script
[2021-07-07T00:08:00Z] <acheam> thats the kiss way of doing things, right?
[2021-07-07T00:08:33Z] <claudia> but the documentation also suggests you 'sfeed_update && pkill -SIGHUP sfeed_curses' to automatically update your running instance.
[2021-07-07T00:08:53Z] <claudia> Never change a winning team.
[2021-07-07T00:09:57Z] <acheam> holy crap there are so many sfeed_* scripts I never knew about
[2021-07-07T00:10:01Z] <acheam> wow I am a dumbass
[2021-07-07T00:10:43Z] <acheam> eh my thing works for now
[2021-07-07T00:10:49Z] <claudia> :D
[2021-07-07T00:14:06Z] <claudia> imo sfeeds manpages are well written and offer a fair amount of information on a quick read. I like them.
[2021-07-07T00:19:23Z] <andrei_> claudia: imgur.com/a/sl1TNmU
[2021-07-07T00:19:43Z] <andrei_> still happening even after firmware sadly
[2021-07-07T00:20:14Z] <andrei_> startx only works if i switch to tty 2 and back
[2021-07-07T00:23:06Z] <acheam> I have the same issue on my desktop
[2021-07-07T00:23:13Z] <acheam> never thought much about it
[2021-07-07T00:24:08Z] <noocsharp> i wish i knew about 'pkill -SIGHUP sfeed_curses' sooner
[2021-07-07T00:24:30Z] <andrei_> acheam: It's pretty annoying
[2021-07-07T00:24:42Z] <andrei_> why do you think this is happening?
[2021-07-07T00:25:41Z] <andrei_> noocsharp: any idea?
[2021-07-07T00:26:40Z] <andrei_> for me this is a significant issue because i like to put startx in my /etc/profile and just forget about it
[2021-07-07T00:27:32Z] <noocsharp> what's happening?
[2021-07-07T00:27:42Z] <noocsharp> that gif doesn't give any information
[2021-07-07T00:27:57Z] <andrei_> running startx just hangs the tty until i switch to tty2 and back
[2021-07-07T00:28:07Z] <noocsharp> oh wait, yeah i see
[2021-07-07T00:28:24Z] <noocsharp> no idea
[2021-07-07T00:28:26Z] <andrei_> xorg log doesn't seem to have any meaningful information
[2021-07-07T00:28:33Z] <noocsharp> mind posting it?
[2021-07-07T00:28:38Z] <andrei_> sure
[2021-07-07T00:30:04Z] <andrei_> noocsharp: http://0x0.st/-fGB.log
[2021-07-07T00:31:11Z] <noocsharp> what's your hardware?
[2021-07-07T00:31:25Z] <andrei_> Nvidia gtx 1050 Ti
[2021-07-07T00:31:33Z] <andrei_> i installed firmware though
[2021-07-07T00:32:05Z] <andrei_> before I installed that it was complaining about some things but those errors have dissapeared after
[2021-07-07T00:32:14Z] <noocsharp> see: https://bbs.archlinux.org/viewtopic.php?id=266907
[2021-07-07T00:32:21Z] <noocsharp> maybe it will be helpful, given the errors
[2021-07-07T00:32:38Z] <andrei_> there's no errors?
[2021-07-07T00:32:59Z] <noocsharp> "failure to allocate surface"
[2021-07-07T00:33:03Z] <andrei_> where
[2021-07-07T00:33:24Z] <noocsharp> very bottom of the file you sent
[2021-07-07T00:34:29Z] <andrei_> oh
[2021-07-07T00:35:23Z] <noocsharp> it may be nouveau related
[2021-07-07T00:35:37Z] <noocsharp> that's all i can say
[2021-07-07T00:35:58Z] <andrei_> ofc course it's because of nvidia lol
[2021-07-07T00:36:06Z] <andrei_> linus was right
[2021-07-07T00:38:17Z] <noocsharp> what does your dmesg look like?
[2021-07-07T00:39:03Z] <andrei_> noocsharp: like this http://0x0.st/-fGu.txt
[2021-07-07T00:41:35Z] <andrei_> i really hope the kernel isn't the issue
[2021-07-07T00:44:11Z] <noocsharp> nouveau isn't giving any errors
[2021-07-07T00:44:22Z] <andrei_> yes
[2021-07-07T00:44:36Z] <andrei_> where else could the issue be then
[2021-07-07T00:44:47Z] <andrei_> device manager? maybe?
[2021-07-07T00:45:06Z] <andrei_> I'm using libudev-0 with mdev
[2021-07-07T00:45:19Z] <andrei_> that shoudn't change anything right?
[2021-07-07T00:47:11Z] <andrei> disconnected for some reason
[2021-07-07T00:47:30Z] <noocsharp> dm shouldn't make a difference
[2021-07-07T00:47:52Z] <Guest6761> ok
[2021-07-07T00:48:03Z] <noocsharp> can you post your xorg log after you switch to tty2 and back?
[2021-07-07T00:48:23Z] <midfavila> >someone in #kisslinux is using novideo
[2021-07-07T00:48:24Z] <midfavila> for shame
[2021-07-07T00:48:55Z] <Guest6761> you probably don't even have a GPU lol
[2021-07-07T00:49:12Z] <Guest6761> noocsharp: The log i posted is the one after switching to tty2 and back
[2021-07-07T00:49:17Z] <midfavila> i have at least five
[2021-07-07T00:49:20Z] <midfavila> goml
[2021-07-07T00:50:06Z] <Guest6761> there's nothing that catches my eye in the log
[2021-07-07T00:50:10Z] <Guest6761> so i am extremely confused
[2021-07-07T00:50:26Z] <Guest6761> acheam also mentioned they experienced the issue as well
[2021-07-07T00:50:50Z] <Guest6761> dilyn: Any idea?
[2021-07-07T00:50:53Z] <noocsharp> another thing you might try is turning up the verbosity of kernel logging and seeing if anything shows up
[2021-07-07T00:51:11Z] <Guest6761> how do i do that
[2021-07-07T00:52:56Z] <noocsharp> loglevel=n
[2021-07-07T00:53:04Z] <noocsharp> where n is the loglevel
[2021-07-07T00:53:09Z] <noocsharp> in the kernel command line
[2021-07-07T00:53:22Z] <noocsharp> i think 4 is default, so turn it down to 3 maybe
[2021-07-07T00:53:25Z] <midfavila> you can probably set it via sysctl
[2021-07-07T00:53:41Z] <noocsharp> true, but i don't think that's persistent
[2021-07-07T00:53:48Z] <midfavila> neither is kernel command line
[2021-07-07T00:53:56Z] <acheam> if you add it to the sysctl config it is
[2021-07-07T00:54:01Z] <noocsharp> but we want to see what happens on bootup
[2021-07-07T00:54:08Z] <midfavila> bootup is fair
[2021-07-07T00:54:09Z] <Guest6761> acheam: you have the same issue right?
[2021-07-07T00:54:20Z] <acheam> yes also nouveau
[2021-07-07T00:54:37Z] <midfavila> acheam that's not quite the same as proper persistence. i was thinking more along the lines of adding it to the init config. ultimately it's not a big deal
[2021-07-07T00:54:43Z] <Guest6761> anyone here using nouveau but doesn't have the issue?
[2021-07-07T00:54:52Z] <acheam> midfavila: eh
[2021-07-07T00:55:14Z] * acheam wonders is midfavila has a Canadian accent
[2021-07-07T00:55:39Z] * noocsharp wonders if acheam has a Boston accent
[2021-07-07T00:55:53Z] <acheam> he does not unfortunately
[2021-07-07T00:55:56Z] <midfavila> what even is a canadian accent
[2021-07-07T00:55:59Z] <acheam> very few people do any more
[2021-07-07T00:56:13Z] <acheam> midfavila: well I thought of it when I wrote "eh"
[2021-07-07T00:56:23Z] <Guest6761> if you go in mid canada you'll find lots of people with the accent
[2021-07-07T00:56:33Z] <Guest6761> near the big cities it's mostly american accent though
[2021-07-07T00:56:41Z] <midfavila> i've been to every province except BC
[2021-07-07T00:56:43Z] <noocsharp> see forestyforest
[2021-07-07T00:56:43Z] <midfavila> and lived in most of them
[2021-07-07T00:56:48Z] <Guest6761> I'm in BC now
[2021-07-07T00:56:53Z] <midfavila> i've got no clue what a "canadian accent" is supposed to be
[2021-07-07T00:57:04Z] <acheam> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jrTCDi3xbTw
[2021-07-07T00:57:15Z] <Guest6761> acheam: eww youtube
[2021-07-07T00:57:24Z] <Guest6761> google website
[2021-07-07T00:57:25Z] <midfavila> >not having a script to auto-convert links
[2021-07-07T00:57:30Z] <acheam> I actually got the link from newpipe
[2021-07-07T00:58:11Z] <midfavila> oh, okay, I see what you mean, acheam
[2021-07-07T00:58:14Z] <midfavila> people talking normally
[2021-07-07T00:58:15Z] * midfavila nods
[2021-07-07T00:58:17Z] <acheam> lol
[2021-07-07T00:58:34Z] <Guest6761> acheam: how do you deal with the switching tty's every time you start x
[2021-07-07T00:58:39Z] <midfavila> the newfoundland accent is definitely distinct
[2021-07-07T00:58:48Z] <midfavila> oirish
[2021-07-07T00:58:48Z] <acheam> Guest6761: I just..... do it
[2021-07-07T00:58:53Z] <Guest6761> ok
[2021-07-07T00:58:55Z] <noocsharp> what a sad existence
[2021-07-07T00:58:57Z] <Guest6761> I'm sad now
[2021-07-07T00:58:59Z] <acheam> I mean, its just once a day when I turn on my computer
[2021-07-07T00:59:18Z] <noocsharp> that would bother me
[2021-07-07T00:59:25Z] <Guest6761> a second every day will add up to a few minutes in a year
[2021-07-07T00:59:31Z] <Guest6761> in 10 years it'l be 10 minutes
[2021-07-07T00:59:43Z] <midfavila> the NB accent is also something that I recognize... unfortunately
[2021-07-07T00:59:44Z] <midfavila> :|
[2021-07-07T00:59:50Z] <Guest6761> by the time you're 80 switching ttys would have taken up hours of ur life
[2021-07-07T01:00:09Z] <acheam> wow how sad
[2021-07-07T01:00:25Z] <Guest6761> indeed
[2021-07-07T01:00:32Z] * acheam wonders how many decades of his life hes wasted in this channel
[2021-07-07T01:00:39Z] <midfavila> at least 100
[2021-07-07T01:00:43Z] * Guest6761 has an existencial crisis
[2021-07-07T01:00:53Z] <acheam> midfavila: most probably
[2021-07-07T01:01:00Z] * Guest6761 wonders if he spelled existencial correctly
[2021-07-07T01:01:07Z] <midfavila> did not
[2021-07-07T01:01:10Z] <Guest6761> lol
[2021-07-07T01:01:15Z] <midfavila> existential
[2021-07-07T01:01:21Z] <midfavila> ...now I'm having a crisis-
[2021-07-07T01:01:46Z] <midfavila> okay yeah, that was the correct spelling
[2021-07-07T01:01:58Z] <acheam> you dont have a spell checker in your irc clients? wow
[2021-07-07T01:02:04Z] <Guest6761> spell checkers are bloat
[2021-07-07T01:02:05Z] <midfavila> i've never used a spellchecker
[2021-07-07T01:02:11Z] <midfavila> not automatic, anyway
[2021-07-07T01:02:18Z] <Guest6761> use a dictionary, zoomer
[2021-07-07T01:02:22Z] <midfavila> ^
[2021-07-07T01:02:26Z] <Guest6761> xD
[2021-07-07T01:02:37Z] <acheam> Aspell is a dictionary
[2021-07-07T01:02:49Z] <acheam> just one that automatically finds and reccomends the word for you
[2021-07-07T01:03:44Z] <Guest6761> why do some people have [m] next to their nicks
[2021-07-07T01:03:45Z] <midfavila> okay so according to this video I do have a Canadian accent
[2021-07-07T01:03:46Z] <midfavila> weird
[2021-07-07T01:03:48Z] <midfavila> also
[2021-07-07T01:03:52Z] <midfavila> they're using a Matrix bridge
[2021-07-07T01:03:55Z] <Guest6761> oh
[2021-07-07T01:04:07Z] <acheam> theyre from the mateizt
[2021-07-07T01:04:20Z] <acheam> matrix*
[2021-07-07T01:07:03Z] <Guest6761> matrix is nice
[2021-07-07T01:07:06Z] <Guest6761> i prefer irc though
[2021-07-07T01:10:27Z] <midfavila> hmm. actually, this video has been more interesting than I expected, acheam
[2021-07-07T01:10:42Z] <midfavila> seems like I have traits from both the far west and far east coasts
[2021-07-07T01:10:46Z] <acheam> yeah im still watching it too lol
[2021-07-07T01:15:04Z] <midfavila> "you went to the store to get a bottle of drink and a bag of chips"
[2021-07-07T01:15:04Z] <midfavila> this sounds uncomfortably familiar
[2021-07-07T01:15:31Z] <noocsharp> "a bottle of drink"
[2021-07-07T01:15:41Z] <midfavila> soft drink.
[2021-07-07T01:15:56Z] <noocsharp> like substitute drink for the actual name of the soda?
[2021-07-07T01:15:58Z] <midfavila> no
[2021-07-07T01:16:03Z] <midfavila> the literal word "drink"
[2021-07-07T01:16:03Z] <Guest6761> soda is bloat
[2021-07-07T01:16:05Z] <Guest6761> drink water
[2021-07-07T01:16:06Z] <noocsharp> wtf
[2021-07-07T01:16:09Z] <noocsharp> ^^
[2021-07-07T01:16:15Z] <midfavila> more of a tea guy.
[2021-07-07T01:16:33Z] <midfavila> teaspoon of maple syrup in a nice, strong earl grey... mmm
[2021-07-07T01:16:49Z] <Guest6761> printf "%s is bloat" $thing
[2021-07-07T01:17:08Z] <noocsharp> do y'all have maple-flavored corn syrup in canada?
[2021-07-07T01:17:17Z] <midfavila> yes, it's called table syrup
[2021-07-07T01:17:19Z] <midfavila> and it's fucking disgusting
[2021-07-07T01:17:31Z] <midfavila> americans need to go BACK and take their awful condiments with them
[2021-07-07T01:17:34Z] <noocsharp> indeed, there is no syrup above maple syrup
[2021-07-07T01:17:45Z] <midfavila> it's disgustingly sweet and has no body
[2021-07-07T01:17:51Z] <midfavila> corn syrup, that is
[2021-07-07T01:17:54Z] <Guest6761> ^^
[2021-07-07T01:17:57Z] <midfavila> ruins any food it touches
[2021-07-07T01:18:10Z] <noocsharp> better than dry pancakes tho
[2021-07-07T01:18:17Z] <midfavila> it literally isn't
[2021-07-07T01:18:37Z] <midfavila> i would rather roll a pancake up and eat it without a condiment than use table syrup
[2021-07-07T01:18:55Z] <midfavila> or I'd use jam or peanut butter or something
[2021-07-07T01:18:56Z] <noocsharp> i guess i'd rather have just butter than pancake syrup
[2021-07-07T01:19:05Z] <midfavila> proper butter on pancakes is lovely
[2021-07-07T01:19:12Z] <midfavila> especially if they're well-made buttermilk cakes
[2021-07-07T01:19:31Z] <midfavila> warm, fluffy, slightly sweet, just a hint of salt... mrfh
[2021-07-07T01:20:24Z] <midfavila> i should make pancakes some time
[2021-07-07T01:20:29Z] <midfavila> they were standard fare when I lived on base
[2021-07-07T01:20:34Z] <Guest6761> is htop bloat
[2021-07-07T01:20:39Z] <midfavila> yes
[2021-07-07T01:20:40Z] <noocsharp> yes
[2021-07-07T01:20:42Z] <midfavila> ps or top
[2021-07-07T01:21:01Z] <noocsharp> cat /proc/$PID/status
[2021-07-07T01:21:13Z] <midfavila> i love how I have so many cores they render top useless
[2021-07-07T01:22:04Z] <Guest6761> > has a super high end computer
[2021-07-07T01:22:08Z] <noocsharp> i honestly don't understand how programs can use 100G of virtual memory
[2021-07-07T01:22:13Z] <Guest6761> > uses the most light operating system
[2021-07-07T01:22:15Z] <noocsharp> it doesn't even make sense
[2021-07-07T01:22:31Z] <midfavila> vram is a concept I need to learn more about
[2021-07-07T01:22:42Z] <midfavila> as far as I understand it, it's basically the theoretical maximum a program would need
[2021-07-07T01:22:51Z] <noocsharp> yeah, i probably need to learn more about it as well
[2021-07-07T01:23:18Z] <noocsharp> like is it's size set by sbrk?
[2021-07-07T01:23:37Z] <midfavila> i've never even heard of sbrk
[2021-07-07T01:23:42Z] <midfavila> is it a c function?
[2021-07-07T01:23:54Z] <noocsharp> syscalls that change the end of a process' memory
[2021-07-07T01:24:02Z] <midfavila> ah. maybe. I wouldn't know
[2021-07-07T01:24:20Z] <noocsharp> thats what malloc uses in the background when it runs out of heap
[2021-07-07T01:24:24Z] <midfavila> i know exactly two things: how to choose cflags and how to write semi-functional shell scripts
[2021-07-07T01:24:30Z] <midfavila> outside of that I'm pretty useless
[2021-07-07T01:24:49Z] <midfavila> i mean, unless you happen to need bread made out of cat-tails
[2021-07-07T01:24:55Z] <midfavila> i can do that.
[2021-07-07T01:25:03Z] <noocsharp> what
[2021-07-07T01:25:07Z] <midfavila> yup.
[2021-07-07T01:25:18Z] <noocsharp> what
[2021-07-07T01:25:20Z] <midfavila> yup.
[2021-07-07T01:26:02Z] <noocsharp> explain
[2021-07-07T01:26:27Z] <midfavila> you cut the tops off, cook them, grind them up, mix with water, and then at that point you just make bread like you usually do.
[2021-07-07T01:26:39Z] * midfavila shrugs
[2021-07-07T01:26:44Z] <midfavila> you can eat the shoots, too.
[2021-07-07T01:26:48Z] <midfavila> apparently they're fantastic for you.
[2021-07-07T01:27:07Z] <midfavila> *assuming the area does not have contaminated water, in which case they are very bad for you
[2021-07-07T01:27:11Z] <noocsharp> ah, not the tails of cats
[2021-07-07T01:27:16Z] <midfavila> no, not the tails of cats
[2021-07-07T01:27:21Z] <midfavila> note the hyphen
[2021-07-07T01:28:03Z] <midfavila> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Typha
[2021-07-07T01:28:05Z] <midfavila> these thingies
[2021-07-07T01:28:13Z] <midfavila> they're super useful
[2021-07-07T01:28:16Z] <midfavila> you can make a ton of stuff with them
[2021-07-07T01:29:15Z] <noocsharp> interesting
[2021-07-07T01:29:37Z] <midfavila> yup.
[2021-07-07T01:29:40Z] <midfavila> another fun fact:
[2021-07-07T01:29:42Z] <midfavila> dandelions
[2021-07-07T01:29:44Z] <midfavila> they make latex
[2021-07-07T01:29:48Z] <midfavila> a fuck ton
[2021-07-07T01:30:00Z] <midfavila> like, more than latex trees, in terms of efficiency
[2021-07-07T01:30:22Z] <Guest6761> midfavila: What do you use for pdf viewing
[2021-07-07T01:30:28Z] <midfavila> ghostscript
[2021-07-07T01:30:44Z] <noocsharp> pdfs are bloat, use paper
[2021-07-07T01:30:56Z] <midfavila> just use plaintext
[2021-07-07T01:30:59Z] <midfavila> or, for fuck's sake, html
[2021-07-07T01:31:03Z] <midfavila> html is preferably to pdf
[2021-07-07T01:31:27Z] <noocsharp> unfortunately textbook publishers don't agree with you
[2021-07-07T01:31:45Z] <midfavila> textbook publishers are cringe and bluepilled and should be shot
[2021-07-07T01:32:08Z] <midfavila> i find plaintext copies of work to be far, far, far easier to read
[2021-07-07T01:32:17Z] <midfavila> like, same material - just the text on its own
[2021-07-07T01:32:43Z] <noocsharp> it's less readable in the case of math
[2021-07-07T01:32:50Z] <noocsharp> and other things that require special notation
[2021-07-07T01:32:56Z] <midfavila> 12000 years and what has math ever done for humanity
[2021-07-07T01:32:58Z] <midfavila> fuckin nerds
[2021-07-07T01:32:59Z] <midfavila> smh
[2021-07-07T01:33:00Z] <midfavila> my
[2021-07-07T01:33:01Z] <midfavila> head
[2021-07-07T01:34:22Z] <noocsharp> djvu is the way for math
[2021-07-07T01:34:29Z] <midfavila> djvu is based ngl
[2021-07-07T01:34:36Z] <midfavila> but I prefer epub for written works
[2021-07-07T01:34:45Z] <noocsharp> yeah, same
[2021-07-07T01:35:04Z] <midfavila> but yeah, like
[2021-07-07T01:35:06Z] <midfavila> K&R for example
[2021-07-07T01:35:12Z] <noocsharp> although most things that work well with epub would work well as plaintext
[2021-07-07T01:35:13Z] <midfavila> i would prefer to have a plaintext copy
[2021-07-07T01:38:35Z] <noocsharp> nothing's stopping you from making one
[2021-07-07T01:38:46Z] <midfavila> i've considered it
[2021-07-07T01:39:35Z] <midfavila> ughhhhhh
[2021-07-07T01:39:45Z] <midfavila> do I study more algebra or do I take a break
[2021-07-07T01:39:52Z] <midfavila> i've done six hours of study today...
[2021-07-07T01:40:13Z] <noocsharp> what are you studying specifically?
[2021-07-07T01:40:25Z] <midfavila> as of right this minute? compound inequalities
[2021-07-07T01:40:30Z] <midfavila> it's nothing complex, just boring
[2021-07-07T01:40:48Z] <noocsharp> then why are you doing it?
[2021-07-07T01:41:01Z] <midfavila> because my high school effectively didn't teach me any mathematics
[2021-07-07T01:41:12Z] <midfavila> and I need to understand higher maths before I can study computer science effectively
[2021-07-07T01:41:18Z] <midfavila> and in order to understand higher maths...
[2021-07-07T01:41:23Z] <midfavila> you get the picture.
[2021-07-07T01:41:47Z] <noocsharp> you don't need higher math for comp sci really...
[2021-07-07T01:41:54Z] <noocsharp> but algebra would be good to know
[2021-07-07T01:42:06Z] <midfavila> i'm going off of what OSSU's CS prereqs recommend
[2021-07-07T01:42:19Z] <midfavila> as well as what I was already interested in
[2021-07-07T01:42:40Z] <midfavila> which, as of right now, is algebra 1 and 2, differential and integral calculus, linear algebra, and statistics
[2021-07-07T01:42:53Z] <midfavila> i want to at least *understand* all of those by the end of my summer break
[2021-07-07T01:43:10Z] <midfavila> even if it's only the fundaments
[2021-07-07T01:43:19Z] <noocsharp> i don't understand why people separate differential and integral calculus
[2021-07-07T01:43:22Z] <noocsharp> calculus is calculus
[2021-07-07T01:43:43Z] <midfavila> i'm just a high schooler they let graduate early, I don't actually know anything about math lmao
[2021-07-07T01:43:51Z] <midfavila> i'm just going off of what i've seen.
[2021-07-07T01:44:35Z] <midfavila> i also want to study physics and electrical engineering later, so I figure higher maths will be useful there. idk.
[2021-07-07T01:44:45Z] <noocsharp> probably should learn some trig in there
[2021-07-07T01:44:57Z] <midfavila> yeah, that's another thing on my list
[2021-07-07T01:45:01Z] <midfavila> as well as geometry
[2021-07-07T01:45:28Z] <midfavila> algebra, geo, trig, and precalc, then I can start studying CS comfortably
[2021-07-07T01:45:40Z] <midfavila> (I feel like trig is just a sub-branch of geo...)
[2021-07-07T01:45:50Z] <Guest6761> isn't precalc tought in high school
[2021-07-07T01:46:01Z] <midfavila> I mean, geometry is the study of shapes and spaces, right? and trig is just the study of triangles, so
[2021-07-07T01:46:03Z] <noocsharp> i disagree, you don't need anything beyond algebra and maybe some trig to study cs comfortably
[2021-07-07T01:46:10Z] * midfavila shrugs again
[2021-07-07T01:46:29Z] <Guest6761> computer graphics and machine learning is different
[2021-07-07T01:46:32Z] <noocsharp> cs is pretty conceptually distinct from a lot of math
[2021-07-07T01:46:46Z] <midfavila> it's related to discrete maths, isn't it?
[2021-07-07T01:47:16Z] <noocsharp> what do you mean by descrete math?
[2021-07-07T01:47:21Z] <noocsharp> graphs?
[2021-07-07T01:47:30Z] <noocsharp> basic number theory?
[2021-07-07T01:47:44Z] <midfavila> I always classified discrete mathematics as more theoretical stuff, as opposed to applied mathematics
[2021-07-07T01:47:46Z] <midfavila> but again -
[2021-07-07T01:47:54Z] <midfavila> i'm not a maths guy
[2021-07-07T01:48:05Z] <noocsharp> the more appropriate dichotomy is pure vs applied math
[2021-07-07T01:49:16Z] <noocsharp> discrete is just math on "discrete" objects, vs continuous things
[2021-07-07T01:49:25Z] <midfavila> anyway, yeah, basic algebra, geometry and trigonometry, and precalc.
[2021-07-07T01:49:41Z] <midfavila> that's what I'm aiming for, right this minute.
[2021-07-07T01:51:28Z] <noocsharp> if your goal is to just learn cs, i would just go for it an learn things that you're missing as you need them
[2021-07-07T01:51:39Z] <noocsharp> if you want a basic foundation in math, that's a good list
[2021-07-07T01:51:43Z] <midfavila> i was missing things in the first course I chose
[2021-07-07T01:51:50Z] <midfavila> at that point I was like "welp, okay, fuck"
[2021-07-07T01:51:58Z] <midfavila> like,
[2021-07-07T01:52:01Z] <noocsharp> what specifically out of curiosity?
[2021-07-07T01:52:07Z] <midfavila> to properly explain how shit my knowledge of maths is,
[2021-07-07T01:52:15Z] <midfavila> i can't even work with logarithms
[2021-07-07T01:52:32Z] <midfavila> and the first time I saw sigma notation my response was "what the fuck is that"
[2021-07-07T01:52:49Z] <Guest6761> sigma nuts
[2021-07-07T01:53:01Z] <noocsharp> log(x) * log(y) = log(x + y)
[2021-07-07T01:53:07Z] <noocsharp> log(x^y) = y*log(x)
[2021-07-07T01:53:11Z] <noocsharp> there's logarithms
[2021-07-07T01:53:15Z] <midfavila> that explains nothing to me.
[2021-07-07T01:53:24Z] <noocsharp> that's all you need to know, unless you do calculus
[2021-07-07T01:53:46Z] <midfavila> according to my friends who have taken CS, logs are pretty important, though...
[2021-07-07T01:54:10Z] <midfavila> like,
[2021-07-07T01:54:23Z] <midfavila> one thing I've always been curious about is what *exactly* a mathematical function expresses
[2021-07-07T01:54:31Z] <midfavila> because maths is all about expressing relations between things, right?
[2021-07-07T01:54:40Z] <acheam> log2(8) = 3 is the same as writing 2^3=8
[2021-07-07T01:54:59Z] <midfavila> so what, exactly, does a logarithm represent?
[2021-07-07T01:55:03Z] <midfavila> what's the relationship there?
[2021-07-07T01:55:06Z] <midfavila> what does it measure?
[2021-07-07T01:55:09Z] <noocsharp> the inverse of an exponential function
[2021-07-07T01:55:29Z] <midfavila> Oh. You could have just said that.
[2021-07-07T01:55:42Z] <noocsharp> log_a(a^x) = x
[2021-07-07T01:56:05Z] <midfavila> ...and you've lost me.
[2021-07-07T01:56:11Z] <midfavila> this is what I mean :v
[2021-07-07T01:56:18Z] <midfavila> I'll learn it in due time, I'm sure.
[2021-07-07T01:56:36Z] <noocsharp> g is the inverse of f if g(f(x)) = x
[2021-07-07T01:56:45Z] <noocsharp> for all x
[2021-07-07T01:57:07Z] <noocsharp> log_a is the inverse of a^x by definition
[2021-07-07T01:57:07Z] * midfavila shrugs?
[2021-07-07T01:57:11Z] <midfavila> Yes, I understand that.
[2021-07-07T01:57:32Z] <midfavila> Actually applying it wouldn't be something I could do. Not right now.
[2021-07-07T01:59:53Z] <midfavila> it doesn't help that I went about six years without applying mathematics. lack of practice is probably what trips me up more than anything
[2021-07-07T02:00:25Z] <noocsharp> yeah, sounds like your school wasn't great
[2021-07-07T02:00:43Z] <midfavila> between barely attending and the schools being shit, yeah
[2021-07-07T02:00:46Z] <midfavila> not a great situation
[2021-07-07T02:00:53Z] <midfavila> i intend to rectify that
[2021-07-07T02:01:38Z] <midfavila> if I continue at the rate I've been for the past two days, I'll finish a semester's worth of algebra in just under two weeks, which is an okay pace, but I'll have to work harder if I want to finish everything before the end of summer
[2021-07-07T02:02:05Z] <noocsharp> when you say "doing algebra" you mean doing exercises, right?
[2021-07-07T02:02:31Z] <midfavila> Yes. I've been working through the exercise list on Khan Academy. It's not glorious, but it's worked so far.
[2021-07-07T02:02:51Z] <noocsharp> i used to grind that shit in middle school
[2021-07-07T02:03:12Z] <midfavila> i've never really done exercises
[2021-07-07T02:03:22Z] <midfavila> when I actually attended class, I was pretty good at maths
[2021-07-07T02:03:33Z] <midfavila> my parents never let me use a calculator, so
[2021-07-07T02:03:45Z] <midfavila> i kind of had to be, I guess.
[2021-07-07T02:03:48Z] <noocsharp> i mean if you're not doing exercises and getting feedback, you don't know how good you are at something
[2021-07-07T02:03:56Z] <midfavila> Yeah.
[2021-07-07T02:04:17Z] <midfavila> I was talking to a friend of mine earlier today and said that the most important lesson I've learned from these exercises hasn't had anything to do with maths
[2021-07-07T02:04:23Z] <midfavila> it's been pretty humbling.
[2021-07-07T02:04:54Z] <midfavila> but it's been encouraging, too.
[2021-07-07T02:05:12Z] <midfavila> seeing that sure, I have my limits, and they're pretty pathetic in some regards - but I'm capable of pushing them further and further with every day
[2021-07-07T02:05:20Z] <noocsharp> knowing what you can do is the first step to being able to do more
[2021-07-07T02:05:37Z] <midfavila> "Knowing is half the battle." - Some random 80s cartoon
[2021-07-07T02:06:06Z] <midfavila> truly, G.I. Joe was a fount of wisdom
[2021-07-07T02:08:08Z] <noocsharp> indeed
[2021-07-07T02:37:43Z] <midfavila> the webkit2gtk package appears to need webkit's Makefile patched. it breaks with suckless ln
[2021-07-07T02:37:54Z] <midfavila> will double-check with GNU ln to be sure
[2021-07-07T02:41:50Z] <dilyn> if you want to do maths for CS you'll need to figure out what exactly you want to do in CS...
[2021-07-07T02:41:55Z] <dilyn> machine learning? probability, calculus
[2021-07-07T02:42:07Z] <dilyn> anything else? linear algebra at most, and graph/number theory
[2021-07-07T02:42:26Z] <dilyn> so either way, learn linear algebra
[2021-07-07T02:42:28Z] <midfavila> I don't know enough about computer science to decide what I want to do, so I'm studying a broad set of fundaments.
[2021-07-07T02:42:40Z] <dilyn> which means learn algebra... and that's about it
[2021-07-07T02:42:52Z] <midfavila> I'll learn the rest.
[2021-07-07T02:43:27Z] <dilyn> sure. but if you're on compound inequalities and don't know what a logarithm is, you're going to have a hard time getting integral calculus by summer's end
[2021-07-07T02:43:33Z] <dilyn> so learn linear algebra instead
[2021-07-07T02:43:42Z] <midfavila> Eventually.
[2021-07-07T02:43:56Z] <dilyn> or don't trust the guy who taught maths for six years :)
[2021-07-07T02:44:09Z] <midfavila> Your teaching credentials aren't in question.
[2021-07-07T02:44:47Z] <dilyn> that isn't what that sentence is about... but sure
[2021-07-07T02:45:29Z] <midfavila> If it wasn't supposed to be a passive-aggressive jab, then I'm not sure how to take it.
[2021-07-07T02:46:04Z] <dilyn> it's me trying to save you from wasting time. there's very little overlap between what you're currently studying and linear algebra
[2021-07-07T02:46:24Z] <dilyn> outside of broad definitions and their applications, which learning algebra and precalculus won't help you with
[2021-07-07T02:46:53Z] <dilyn> trig and geometry would be more helpful, but you'd have a hard time finding competent books on those topics that aren't just 'use the law of sines' 'prove the alternating angles theorem'
[2021-07-07T02:47:18Z] <midfavila> Then I'll learn linear algebra once I've finished with the fundamentals and study more advanced mathematics in conjunction with computer science.
[2021-07-07T02:47:52Z] <midfavila> I'm not going to give up just because you say it's not going to be immediately useful, or it'll be a waste of time.
[2021-07-07T02:48:10Z] <dilyn> that... is nothing like what I am saying
[2021-07-07T02:48:44Z] <midfavila> Then, again, I'm not sure how I'm supposed to interpret "It's me trying to save you from wasting time".
[2021-07-07T02:48:52Z] <dilyn> literally that
[2021-07-07T02:48:56Z] <dilyn> you aren't learning fundamentals
[2021-07-07T02:49:10Z] <dilyn> you're learning a narrow application of a specific subset of a topic
[2021-07-07T02:49:18Z] <midfavila> This is... algebra 1.
[2021-07-07T02:49:21Z] <midfavila> That's pretty fundamental.
[2021-07-07T02:49:31Z] <dilyn> like what someone mentioned earlier; understanding what f(g(x))=x means is way more valuable
[2021-07-07T02:49:40Z] <dilyn> look, I can only give you the ladder
[2021-07-07T02:49:43Z] <dilyn> up to you to climb it
[2021-07-07T03:41:53Z] <testuser[m]> Hi
[2021-07-07T03:42:56Z] <acheam> hello
[2021-07-07T03:44:40Z] <testuser[m]> <acheam "https://l.armaanb.net/env"> You only need to export LANG
[2021-07-07T04:34:01Z] <midfavila> well, I have nyxt running on kiss
[2021-07-07T04:34:28Z] <midfavila> (through guix, so I cheated a little bit, because *fuck* reconfiguring the GTK3 stack at 0130)
[2021-07-07T04:37:25Z] <midfavila> TLS doesn't seem to want to work, but I can load websites over http pretty quickly.
[2021-07-07T08:15:47Z] <testuser[m]> https://github.com/tenacityteam/tenacity/issues/99
[2021-07-07T08:16:15Z] <testuser[m]> Wtf
[2021-07-07T13:58:45Z] <midfavila> oh, yeah, that loser
[2021-07-07T13:59:29Z] <midfavila> the whole sneedacity thing is a mess. but I don't know what I expected from the internet.
[2021-07-07T14:54:37Z] <micro_O> neat data + script for opting out of telemetry, think some folks would appreciate it. https://github.com/beatcracker/toptout
[2021-07-07T14:54:59Z] <micro_O> sad that it needs to be opt-out for most things, but at least someone is doing the work to make it easier
[2021-07-07T15:39:12Z] <acheam> konimex[m]: any viable non-gnu lex?
[2021-07-07T15:39:26Z] <konimex> flex?
[2021-07-07T15:39:33Z] <konimex> flex's not even a GNU project
[2021-07-07T15:39:54Z] <acheam> oop im an idiot
[2021-07-07T15:39:55Z] <midfavila> Did you mean: non-GPL?
[2021-07-07T15:40:01Z] <acheam> no I thought flex was gnu
[2021-07-07T15:40:04Z] <acheam> thanks
[2021-07-07T15:40:17Z] <midfavila> why would you specifically need a non-GNU lexical generator?
[2021-07-07T15:40:31Z] <acheam> for the sole purpose of having less gnu stuff on my computer
[2021-07-07T15:40:34Z] <midfavila> i would understand issues with the license, but not necessarily the project itself
[2021-07-07T15:40:55Z] <acheam> i do it more as a fun challenge rather than a license thing
[2021-07-07T15:41:01Z] <midfavila> fair enough
[2021-07-07T15:57:25Z] <acheam> hmm dilyn isnt here
[2021-07-07T15:57:41Z] <acheam> anybody else familiar with qt and why my build could be failing like this?
[2021-07-07T15:57:42Z] <acheam> https://l.armaanb.net/qt5-2021-07-07-11:42-14171
[2021-07-07T15:58:04Z] <midfavila> 404
[2021-07-07T15:59:01Z] <acheam> try https://l.armaanb.net/qt5
[2021-07-07T15:59:11Z] <acheam> hi sad_plan
[2021-07-07T15:59:17Z] <sad_plan> hey
[2021-07-07T16:00:47Z] <acheam> building the above with llvm btw
[2021-07-07T16:00:55Z] <acheam> although that should be in the build log
[2021-07-07T16:01:16Z] <midfavila> it's not, but I'm familiar with your toolchain preferences
[2021-07-07T16:01:41Z] <sad_plan> wouldnt happen to know if any of configs in the bottom here http://0x0.st/-fnE.txt, that triggers the kernel of not finding the init? im trying to trim down on the kernel size :p
[2021-07-07T16:02:08Z] <midfavila> only time I can think the kernel wouldn't be able to find init would be if it didn't have FS drivers
[2021-07-07T16:02:20Z] <sad_plan> the diffs is at the bottom. fooconf y -> n
[2021-07-07T16:02:46Z] <sad_plan> it should I didnt touch those. I did earlier, but I just recompiled it, and fixed it. could doublecheck though..
[2021-07-07T16:03:29Z] <midfavila> hmm
[2021-07-07T16:03:46Z] <midfavila> quickly running a search for your error doesn't return many useful results, acheam
[2021-07-07T16:03:51Z] <midfavila> but it does appear to be a common issue
[2021-07-07T16:03:55Z] <acheam> yeah my search neither
[2021-07-07T16:04:09Z] <acheam> i tried playing around with the various PATH variables, but to no avail
[2021-07-07T16:04:18Z] <acheam> trying to build dilyn's old package from kiss-me now
[2021-07-07T16:04:29Z] <acheam> because he uses the same toolchain
[2021-07-07T16:04:39Z] <acheam> but the community package is also maintained by him so /shrug
[2021-07-07T16:07:55Z] <sad_plan> aah, I think Ive found the issue. config_block, which I unchecked, seems to have a reverse depency of vfat_fs.
[2021-07-07T16:08:01Z] <acheam> okay looks like dilyn's bild gets a little bit further along
[2021-07-07T16:08:28Z] <acheam> sad_plan: oof
[2021-07-07T16:08:47Z] <acheam> i'm glad I just use ext4 for everything, less stuff to worry about
[2021-07-07T16:09:39Z] <midfavila> XFS and NILFS2 are pretty independent
[2021-07-07T16:09:59Z] <sad_plan> I just use xfs and vfat for /efi partition, but yeah, having less filesystems is fine for me. less things to worry about :p
[2021-07-07T16:10:13Z] <acheam> what bootloader do you use? most support xfs
[2021-07-07T16:10:34Z] <illiliti> xfs depends on lvm/device-mapper modules iirc
[2021-07-07T16:10:52Z] <midfavila> does it? i don't have lvm enabled at all and xfs works just fine
[2021-07-07T16:10:52Z] <acheam> thats tough
[2021-07-07T16:10:53Z] <illiliti> f2fs is independent 100%
[2021-07-07T16:11:04Z] <midfavila> f2fs is also developed by samsung, isn't it?
[2021-07-07T16:11:17Z] <illiliti> i don't care
[2021-07-07T16:11:28Z] <midfavila> good for you
[2021-07-07T16:11:38Z] <illiliti> > modprobe -D f2fs
[2021-07-07T16:11:40Z] <illiliti> insmod /lib/modules/5.13.0/kernel/fs/f2fs/f2fs.ko.xz
[2021-07-07T16:11:44Z] <illiliti> one module
[2021-07-07T16:11:47Z] <illiliti> no deps
[2021-07-07T16:11:54Z] <acheam> ew modules
[2021-07-07T16:12:00Z] <midfavila> fr tho
[2021-07-07T16:12:03Z] <illiliti> yeah
[2021-07-07T16:12:04Z] <midfavila> unbased, ill
[2021-07-07T16:13:32Z] <illiliti> my kernel is modular because my workflow requires it
[2021-07-07T16:13:40Z] <acheam> ya know what really bothers me? install scripts with proprietary binary in a heredoc in them
[2021-07-07T16:13:59Z] <illiliti> HEREDOC
[2021-07-07T16:14:02Z] <acheam> HEREDOC
[2021-07-07T16:14:06Z] <midfavila> theredoc
[2021-07-07T16:14:08Z] <testuser[m]> HEREDOC
[2021-07-07T16:14:12Z] <acheam> illiliti: what makes your workflow require modules?
[2021-07-07T16:14:51Z] <testuser[m]> acheam: makeself ?
[2021-07-07T16:14:55Z] <illiliti> tinyramfs, qemu
[2021-07-07T16:15:04Z] <illiliti> i do a lot of testing manually
[2021-07-07T16:15:06Z] <midfavila> ...what does qemu have to do with modules?
[2021-07-07T16:15:08Z] <acheam> ^
[2021-07-07T16:15:20Z] <sad_plan> I was curious about the same ^
[2021-07-07T16:15:20Z] <acheam> why cant you just build virtualization into the kernel?
[2021-07-07T16:15:26Z] <sad_plan> you can
[2021-07-07T16:15:30Z] <midfavila> that's his point
[2021-07-07T16:15:43Z] <acheam> testuser[m]: makeself?
[2021-07-07T16:15:55Z] <illiliti> because i need to test tinyramfs with modular kernel
[2021-07-07T16:15:56Z] <testuser[m]> It has binary in script in heredoc
[2021-07-07T16:16:09Z] <midfavila> be glad it's not a sharchive
[2021-07-07T16:16:16Z] <testuser[m]> https://makeself.io/
[2021-07-07T16:16:19Z] <acheam> ah, im not familiar with that specifically
[2021-07-07T16:16:26Z] <acheam> but i've encounterd multiple in the last few days
[2021-07-07T16:16:27Z] <midfavila> the first time I saw a five gb shell script I nearly shit myself
[2021-07-07T16:16:36Z] <acheam> printer drivers, anaconda, vpn software, etc
[2021-07-07T16:16:49Z] <illiliti> monolithic kernel basically keeps everything in ram. why do i need qemu modules in ram when i don't need them?
[2021-07-07T16:16:56Z] <acheam> thats fair
[2021-07-07T16:17:09Z] <midfavila> and people say I micro-optimize too much...
[2021-07-07T16:17:11Z] <acheam> my solution is just to not include it in my kernel and deal with not having virtualization lol
[2021-07-07T16:17:22Z] <sad_plan> ^
[2021-07-07T16:17:22Z] <acheam> i mean, to be fair, at most its like a half meg of memory
[2021-07-07T16:18:03Z] <sad_plan> I was diying a while back when starting with kiss, because i just couldnt virtualize with virtualbox. I just gave up. dualboot it is if I wanna check out something new :p
[2021-07-07T16:19:23Z] <illiliti> virtualbox is a crapware
[2021-07-07T16:19:25Z] <midfavila> vbox is ass
[2021-07-07T16:19:26Z] <illiliti> no wonder why you can't make it work
[2021-07-07T16:19:35Z] <midfavila> my school tried to get me to install it
[2021-07-07T16:19:44Z] <illiliti> omg
[2021-07-07T16:19:45Z] <midfavila> they were promptly ass-blasted
[2021-07-07T16:19:49Z] <acheam> this program just tried to get me to install cisco anyvpn and vmware
[2021-07-07T16:19:51Z] <sad_plan> I couldnt build the kernel modules. and I probably wouldve gotten stuck trying to package it aswell p
[2021-07-07T16:20:02Z] <midfavila> i'm not installing your shitware proprietary extensions for your garbage virtualizer
[2021-07-07T16:20:31Z] <midfavila> oracle needs to go back tbqh
[2021-07-07T16:21:24Z] <noocsharp> acheam: what crapware are you installing?
[2021-07-07T16:21:36Z] <acheam> noocsharp: luckily none of it
[2021-07-07T16:21:41Z] <midfavila> mcafee antivirus
[2021-07-07T16:21:43Z] <acheam> vmware has a webui I can use
[2021-07-07T16:21:50Z] <acheam> and I found an alternate vpn client I can use
[2021-07-07T16:21:56Z] <acheam> qt5 build failure: https://l.armaanb.net/qt5-2
[2021-07-07T16:23:18Z] <acheam> the error is error: unknown type name 'BIO_ADDR'
[2021-07-07T16:23:40Z] <acheam> it looks like its part of openssl?
[2021-07-07T16:26:09Z] <noocsharp> there is no BIO_ADDR in libressl
[2021-07-07T16:26:49Z] <midfavila> https://shop.fsf.org/gear/software-freedom-advice-orb
[2021-07-07T16:26:51Z] <noocsharp> but it appears to exist in openssl
[2021-07-07T16:26:59Z] <midfavila> figured I would buy a copy of the emacs manual, found this little guy
[2021-07-07T16:27:22Z] <midfavila> some of the stuff the FSF has is so charming
[2021-07-07T16:28:08Z] <acheam> noocsharp: hm yeah
[2021-07-07T16:28:14Z] <acheam> im trying to build with -no-openssl
[2021-07-07T16:28:24Z] <schillingklaus> for example?
[2021-07-07T16:28:35Z] <acheam> https://shop.fsf.org/gear/software-freedom-advice-orb
[2021-07-07T16:28:40Z] <acheam> is the link he sent before you arrived
[2021-07-07T16:28:46Z] <midfavila> excellent example
[2021-07-07T16:28:48Z] <midfavila> i approve
[2021-07-07T16:29:01Z] <acheam> lol thats cool, looks like its new from the last time I checked out the shop
[2021-07-07T16:29:10Z] <midfavila> i just like the description :P
[2021-07-07T16:29:13Z] <midfavila> it's cute
[2021-07-07T16:29:20Z] <acheam> argh with -no-openssl its back to the same error as earlier, "Project ERROR: failed to parse default search paths from compiler output
[2021-07-07T16:29:36Z] <midfavila> "Please note that the FSF is not responsible for any consequences of obedience to the Orb ("orbedience")."
[2021-07-07T16:30:06Z] <schillingklaus> it is a no-prophet org, after all
[2021-07-07T16:30:23Z] <midfavila> no, it's definitely got a prophet
[2021-07-07T16:30:27Z] <midfavila> no profit, maybe
[2021-07-07T16:32:07Z] <midfavila> one thing that kind of disturbs me is the cover for the GCC reference
[2021-07-07T16:32:13Z] <midfavila> https://shop.fsf.org/books-docs/using-gcc-gnu-compiler-collection-reference-manual-v-33-discounted
[2021-07-07T16:32:21Z] <midfavila> like
[2021-07-07T16:32:22Z] <midfavila> what the fuck
[2021-07-07T16:32:23Z] <midfavila> :v
[2021-07-07T16:32:43Z] <acheam> lol
[2021-07-07T16:32:46Z] <testuser[m]> Bruh
[2021-07-07T16:35:10Z] <acheam> okay trying to rebuild qt5 using void's libressl patches
[2021-07-07T16:36:29Z] <acheam> nope back to the same damn error
[2021-07-07T16:38:59Z] <sad_plan> ok, so the missing vfat made me come further. but not rootfs wont mount. even though ive enabled all of the xfs stuff in the kernel..
[2021-07-07T16:42:44Z] <sad_plan> Tah, theres probably more bs from me disabling config_block.. scsi was appearently also unchecked..
[2021-07-07T16:45:21Z] <midfavila> yeah, uh, don't do that
[2021-07-07T16:45:26Z] <midfavila> the scsi subsystem also controls sata
[2021-07-07T16:45:42Z] <sad_plan> I noticed :')
[2021-07-07T16:45:48Z] <midfavila> :P
[2021-07-07T17:02:06Z] <acheam> woot qt5 built
[2021-07-07T17:02:30Z] <acheam> is there any way to speed up the readelf stage of kiss?
[2021-07-07T17:03:10Z] <midfavila> doubt it. it would be a deficiency in libelf or w/e that would cause the slowdown, right?
[2021-07-07T17:03:25Z] <acheam> idk, its just... slow
[2021-07-07T17:03:32Z] <acheam> but I understand if its not possible
[2021-07-07T17:03:38Z] <midfavila> maybe there should be a flag to disable it?
[2021-07-07T17:03:44Z] <acheam> well I do want to run it
[2021-07-07T17:03:44Z] <midfavila> that would be a good patch, I think
[2021-07-07T17:03:46Z] <acheam> just zoomier
[2021-07-07T17:03:51Z] <midfavila> >zoomier
[2021-07-07T17:03:56Z] <midfavila> masterful prose
[2021-07-07T17:37:05Z] <sad_plan> 10.3mb for the kernel isnt too shabby if you ask me. thats 2mb down from my previous kernel config
[2021-07-07T17:43:13Z] <acheam> not that its a contest or anything, but I'd be remiss if I didn't brag about my 8.6mb kernel
[2021-07-07T17:45:18Z] <schillingklaus> poettering's kernel is 8.6 GB
[2021-07-07T17:45:30Z] <sad_plan> exacly. its a bit of fun to see how small you can make your kernel.
[2021-07-07T17:45:47Z] <sad_plan> wasnt dylans around 7mb or so?
[2021-07-07T17:52:43Z] <sad_plan> what wm are you guys using? I stumpled upon monsterwm, which is fine I suppose, but its freaking ancient. its 10 years since last update..
[2021-07-07T17:53:44Z] <schillingklaus> i haven't yet installed x11 on kisslinux, but eleswhere I use ratpoison (not yet kiss-packaged)
[2021-07-07T17:55:20Z] <sad_plan> does it have vim bindings though?
[2021-07-07T17:56:02Z] <schillingklaus> ratpoison? the bindings are somewhat configurable
[2021-07-07T17:56:33Z] <sad_plan> I sortof supposed most does, when I think about it.
[2021-07-07T17:56:42Z] <noocsharp> ratpoison is explicitly an emacs-like wm lmao
[2021-07-07T17:56:58Z] <sad_plan> sounds like a pass for me then :p
[2021-07-07T17:57:12Z] <sad_plan> what wms are in repos though? dwm, i3, bspwm?
[2021-07-07T17:57:17Z] <noocsharp> i use dwm
[2021-07-07T17:57:31Z] <noocsharp> also sowm is in the main repo
[2021-07-07T17:57:49Z] <schillingklaus> modal keybindings can be configured in ratpoison, also in i3
[2021-07-07T17:58:07Z] <sad_plan> I couldnt for the love of my life get xresources patch to work though.. wanted to patch dwm, but I jsut couldnt figure it out for some reason.
[2021-07-07T17:58:45Z] <sad_plan> sowm is nice, but I kinda want a tiling now, after using one. its way better than using wmutils, and manually getting focus, and each time I open a new window, reset the tiling :')
[2021-07-07T17:59:07Z] <schillingklaus> the xresources patch is a way to configure dwm without reinstallation?
[2021-07-07T17:59:31Z] <ang> sad_plan: how often do you change colours that you need xresources?
[2021-07-07T17:59:37Z] <sad_plan> there is a patch that lets you restart dwm, but never tried it.
[2021-07-07T17:59:50Z] <sad_plan> ang: not too often, or at all tbh :p
[2021-07-07T17:59:55Z] <acheam> you can also run DWM in a loop from your sxrc or xinitrc
[2021-07-07T18:00:00Z] <ang> ditch that shit then
[2021-07-07T18:00:15Z] <acheam> but I just S-s-q, sx
[2021-07-07T18:00:18Z] <ang> I use dwm with exactly 1 patch
[2021-07-07T18:00:29Z] <sad_plan> aah
[2021-07-07T18:00:31Z] <ang> which is dwm-noborderfloatingfix-6.2.diff
[2021-07-07T18:00:41Z] <acheam> not even a good one jeez
[2021-07-07T18:00:55Z] <acheam> cursorwarp is the ultimate patch
[2021-07-07T18:01:17Z] <ang> my cursor is hidden 90% of the time anyway
[2021-07-07T18:01:28Z] <sad_plan> dwm has aloot of patches. I went through the list on that flexipatch repo
[2021-07-07T18:01:40Z] <sad_plan> ^same here. keyboard driving everything
[2021-07-07T18:01:58Z] <ang> the border patch thing is the only I find necessary
[2021-07-07T18:02:03Z] <acheam> cursor hidden? damn
[2021-07-07T18:02:04Z] <sad_plan> I even installed tridactyl on firefox, so I could use vim bindings for firefox aswell
[2021-07-07T18:02:08Z] <ang> without it fullscreen will have borders and why waste that space?
[2021-07-07T18:02:21Z] <ang> xbanish, acheam
[2021-07-07T18:02:33Z] <sad_plan> because r/unixporn bro
[2021-07-07T18:02:35Z] <ang> it just hides the cursor when you press any key
[2021-07-07T18:03:24Z] <akira01> man
[2021-07-07T18:03:27Z] <acheam> oh so you can still use the cursor then
[2021-07-07T18:03:29Z] <akira01> why change to openssl
[2021-07-07T18:03:42Z] <ang> yeah sure, it re-appears when you move the mouse
[2021-07-07T18:04:01Z] <sad_plan> are we going to change to openssl? I cant say ive seen anyone mentioning that we actually are
[2021-07-07T18:04:08Z] <acheam> holy shit this thing is amazing
[2021-07-07T18:04:16Z] <ang> there was another program to hide the cursor, forgot the name
[2021-07-07T18:04:21Z] <ang> which works with a timeout
[2021-07-07T18:04:22Z] <akira01> dylan says something about it
[2021-07-07T18:04:27Z] <ang> but I find on keyboard press way better
[2021-07-07T18:04:28Z] <acheam> sad_plan: it might be made a more accessible option depending on how this Python thing works out
[2021-07-07T18:04:45Z] <schillingklaus> stumpwm is in one of the repos, but that's ratpoison + lisp
[2021-07-07T18:04:52Z] <sad_plan> possibly. I suppose we'll see
[2021-07-07T18:04:54Z] <akira01> he plans to ban python?
[2021-07-07T18:05:27Z] <acheam> I think libressl would be thrown out before Python is
[2021-07-07T18:05:28Z] <sad_plan> probably not, because python is a dependency of alot of stuff. but im sure he gonna have to figure something about regarding that stuff
[2021-07-07T18:05:33Z] <sad_plan> why?
[2021-07-07T18:05:43Z] <midfavila> nuclear take
[2021-07-07T18:05:48Z] <acheam> maybe there'll be a Python-min package with the SSL disabled
[2021-07-07T18:05:48Z] <midfavila> binding keys within your wm is bloat
[2021-07-07T18:05:51Z] <midfavila> use sxhkd
[2021-07-07T18:06:16Z] <testuser[m]> Python without ssl is very limited
[2021-07-07T18:06:21Z] <testuser[m]> Its not just like you can't do networking
[2021-07-07T18:06:27Z] <sad_plan> ive been using sxhkd to control all my winows. but I switched away from wmutils today, mid
[2021-07-07T18:06:36Z] <midfavila> why's that?
[2021-07-07T18:06:45Z] <acheam> what else breaks? random number generation?
[2021-07-07T18:06:47Z] <schillingklaus> not all networking requires ssl
[2021-07-07T18:06:49Z] <acheam> shasums?
[2021-07-07T18:07:08Z] <midfavila> you can't import solution from stdlib without ssl
[2021-07-07T18:07:13Z] <midfavila> which obviously makes python worthless
[2021-07-07T18:07:14Z] <midfavila> smh
[2021-07-07T18:07:17Z] <acheam> solution?
[2021-07-07T18:07:20Z] <sad_plan> mid: because wmutils is rather cumbersum tbh. its a hassle to constantly control focus and so on..
[2021-07-07T18:07:30Z] <midfavila> acheam it's a joke
[2021-07-07T18:07:37Z] <midfavila> nvm
[2021-07-07T18:07:37Z] <acheam> oh
[2021-07-07T18:07:47Z] <midfavila> sad_plan I can kind of see where you're coming from with that
[2021-07-07T18:08:03Z] <midfavila> i've recently written a script that uses wmctrl to manage it, though
[2021-07-07T18:08:04Z] <sad_plan> you do? are you having the same stuff?
[2021-07-07T18:08:22Z] <midfavila> Not really, actually. I've found wmutils and sxhkd a pleasure to use in combination with shod
[2021-07-07T18:08:29Z] <sad_plan> aah. yeah I actually just saw that when looking throuh the repo. is it the same thing? roughly
[2021-07-07T18:08:36Z] <midfavila> "the repo"?
[2021-07-07T18:08:39Z] <midfavila> as in mine?
[2021-07-07T18:09:09Z] <sad_plan> perhaps, if its in yours, then possibly. I didnt look to much tbh
[2021-07-07T18:09:11Z] <testuser[m]> acheam yeah hash functions and stuff, i don't think meson even works with that broken of a python
[2021-07-07T18:09:23Z] <testuser[m]> Btw switch to gnugrep, it will compensate for the slow readelf
[2021-07-07T18:09:30Z] <midfavila> i'm not quite sure what package you're referring to, honestly
[2021-07-07T18:09:39Z] <sad_plan> wmctrl
[2021-07-07T18:09:42Z] <midfavila> but yeah, I find it satisfying to script new features
[2021-07-07T18:09:42Z] <midfavila> aah
[2021-07-07T18:09:52Z] <midfavila> yes, that's in my ports collection
[2021-07-07T18:10:01Z] <midfavila> ports/wmctrl
[2021-07-07T18:10:17Z] <midfavila> the script I use to manage focus is part of mid-rc
[2021-07-07T18:10:22Z] <midfavila> winlist.sh to be specific
[2021-07-07T18:10:25Z] <sad_plan> yeah. I just fzf into all of my repos, and the name popped up in the list.
[2021-07-07T18:10:31Z] <midfavila> and then I pipe that into xprompt
[2021-07-07T18:10:34Z] <acheam> I used to use gnugrep but switched from it during my degnuification
[2021-07-07T18:10:35Z] <testuser[m]> acheam: readelf is currently called for every single file in the package regardless of it being executable with `readelf ||:` so i guess it could be faster if it was limited to just executables
[2021-07-07T18:10:35Z] <midfavila> and voila
[2021-07-07T18:10:36Z] <sad_plan> shod seems possibly interesting aswell.
[2021-07-07T18:10:42Z] <midfavila> shod is super fantastic
[2021-07-07T18:10:47Z] <midfavila> have you ever used twm?
[2021-07-07T18:10:51Z] <acheam> testuser[m]: hmm yeah that would be a good improvement
[2021-07-07T18:10:52Z] <midfavila> or any of the old school X programs?
[2021-07-07T18:11:05Z] <acheam> thats a shame about python
[2021-07-07T18:11:09Z] <testuser[m]> But idk if the time taken to filter out the files would make the optimization useless
[2021-07-07T18:11:13Z] <acheam> and I do need python with ssl for youtube-dl
[2021-07-07T18:11:13Z] <sad_plan> no. ive used sowm for a while, then switched to wmutils later on, with glazier for focus
[2021-07-07T18:11:15Z] <acheam> so idk
[2021-07-07T18:11:31Z] <midfavila> hmm. not even xterm? rip
[2021-07-07T18:11:31Z] <sad_plan> not really. but I do know you like atleast some of them, irrc
[2021-07-07T18:11:31Z] <midfavila> anyway,
[2021-07-07T18:11:36Z] <sad_plan> lol
[2021-07-07T18:11:38Z] <sad_plan> st ftw
[2021-07-07T18:11:50Z] <midfavila> point is, shod has the same level of efficiency and fluidity as older X programs
[2021-07-07T18:11:55Z] <midfavila> because it uses xlib directly
[2021-07-07T18:11:59Z] <midfavila> like,
[2021-07-07T18:12:00Z] <sad_plan> aah. nice
[2021-07-07T18:12:02Z] <midfavila> it's insanely responsive
[2021-07-07T18:12:06Z] <midfavila> i can't express just how nice it is
[2021-07-07T18:12:09Z] <midfavila> but beyond that,
[2021-07-07T18:12:10Z] <acheam> i've never felt my wm be slow
[2021-07-07T18:12:13Z] <testuser[m]> openssl is ok, it can't be that hard to remove perl from their build system
[2021-07-07T18:12:22Z] <midfavila> it's not one of those things that's obvious
[2021-07-07T18:12:24Z] <acheam> especially because of a difference in x library
[2021-07-07T18:12:25Z] <midfavila> but like
[2021-07-07T18:12:31Z] <midfavila> just try twm for a little bit, acheam
[2021-07-07T18:12:34Z] <midfavila> you'll see what I mean
[2021-07-07T18:12:45Z] <acheam> maybe its other factores, but I doubt which x library it uses makes that much of a difference
[2021-07-07T18:12:50Z] <acheam> I have no doubt its snappy
[2021-07-07T18:12:52Z] <sad_plan> im going to check out both. looking at shods github as we speak
[2021-07-07T18:12:54Z] <midfavila> i would say it makes a huge difference.
[2021-07-07T18:12:56Z] <acheam> just curious about the reason
[2021-07-07T18:13:09Z] <midfavila> if you use a ton of libraries that abstract X calls, it's going to result in higher latency
[2021-07-07T18:13:13Z] <midfavila> even if it's only slightly
[2021-07-07T18:13:28Z] <midfavila> but yeah, at first I found shod to be somewhat limiting
[2021-07-07T18:13:33Z] <midfavila> because I'm used to FVWM
[2021-07-07T18:13:39Z] <midfavila> where it has its own scripting facilities and stuff
[2021-07-07T18:13:45Z] <midfavila> but shod is so much better, because it's *generic*
[2021-07-07T18:13:57Z] <midfavila> it's designed to work with other programs from the outset
[2021-07-07T18:14:10Z] <midfavila> so you can combine it with whatever you'd like
[2021-07-07T18:14:15Z] <midfavila> nothing limits you to wmutils, for instance
[2021-07-07T18:14:24Z] <sad_plan> more unixy then I suppose
[2021-07-07T18:14:27Z] <midfavila> the theming engine is easy to work with, too
[2021-07-07T18:14:38Z] <midfavila> it's just a little XPM image, and it's used to generate window decor
[2021-07-07T18:14:50Z] <sad_plan> wmutils is nice, but it seems to been abondoned. z3bra doesnt seem to post anything linux related anymore either.
[2021-07-07T18:15:07Z] <midfavila> has tiling and floating modes, with the former being inspired by acme, which is /comfy/
[2021-07-07T18:15:13Z] <midfavila> oh?
[2021-07-07T18:15:37Z] <sad_plan> yeah, hasnt recieved any updates in a few years now. most of his software really
[2021-07-07T18:15:42Z] <sad_plan> ill give you the link
[2021-07-07T18:15:46Z] <sad_plan> if youre interested
[2021-07-07T18:15:47Z] <midfavila> wmutils was updated like
[2021-07-07T18:15:50Z] <acheam> does that really matter?
[2021-07-07T18:15:53Z] <acheam> like, it works
[2021-07-07T18:15:56Z] <midfavila> literally a year ago
[2021-07-07T18:15:57Z] <acheam> and xorg isnt changing that fas
[2021-07-07T18:15:57Z] <midfavila> if that
[2021-07-07T18:15:58Z] <acheam> t
[2021-07-07T18:16:02Z] <midfavila> and the extensions are still being worked on
[2021-07-07T18:16:07Z] <midfavila> https://github.com/wmutils
[2021-07-07T18:16:14Z] <sad_plan> it seems youre right.
[2021-07-07T18:16:27Z] <midfavila> i know some things
[2021-07-07T18:16:28Z] <midfavila> :p
[2021-07-07T18:16:40Z] <sad_plan> i know :p
[2021-07-07T18:16:47Z] <sad_plan> https://git.z3bra.org/
[2021-07-07T18:17:34Z] <sad_plan> theres his other stuff though. hasnt been too much activity the last year tbh. dunno whats up. usually only post pokemon go stuff / cod related on reddit these days anyway.
[2021-07-07T18:17:50Z] <midfavila> i'd use the github repo unlesss there's a reason not to
[2021-07-07T18:18:03Z] <midfavila> also
[2021-07-07T18:18:07Z] <midfavila> obligatory
[2021-07-07T18:18:07Z] <midfavila> >reddit
[2021-07-07T18:18:13Z] <sad_plan> lol
[2021-07-07T18:18:23Z] <midfavila> unrelated but why are eggs so delicious
[2021-07-07T18:18:24Z] <midfavila> like
[2021-07-07T18:18:29Z] <midfavila> they're so fucking good
[2021-07-07T18:18:31Z] <sad_plan> and here I was thinkin you hated on github, and youre saing youd prefer github?:p
[2021-07-07T18:18:38Z] <midfavila> the github *repo*
[2021-07-07T18:18:41Z] <sad_plan> they are :D
[2021-07-07T18:18:44Z] <sad_plan> but why?
[2021-07-07T18:18:44Z] <midfavila> i wouldn't use shithub if I had a choice
[2021-07-07T18:18:48Z] <midfavila> microshit
[2021-07-07T18:19:00Z] <sad_plan> yes, but gh over z3bras own git in this case
[2021-07-07T18:19:09Z] <midfavila> because it's actively maintained
[2021-07-07T18:19:28Z] <midfavila> assuming there are bugs or errors in the original codebase, or missing features, there's a reason to use the more modern program
[2021-07-07T18:19:35Z] <midfavila> otherwise, just use the original codebase
[2021-07-07T18:19:36Z] <sad_plan> well yeah, I see that now, that z3bra's git is missing some commits
[2021-07-07T18:19:50Z] <sad_plan> cant argue with that
[2021-07-07T18:20:08Z] <midfavila> i'd prefer it if we all used fossil instead, but alas
[2021-07-07T18:20:31Z] <sad_plan> yet here we are
[2021-07-07T18:20:37Z] <midfavila> i'm not too knowledgeable about VCS anyway, so it's not like my opinion matters much about it
[2021-07-07T18:31:39Z] <sad_plan> shod is strictly driven by wmctrl, correct?
[2021-07-07T18:40:46Z] <sad_plan> nvm
[2021-07-07T18:41:24Z] <acheam> hi dilyn
[2021-07-07T18:41:27Z] <dilyn> o/
[2021-07-07T18:41:32Z] <sad_plan> o/
[2021-07-07T18:41:50Z] <akira01> dilyn make a revolution and get control of kiss repo
[2021-07-07T18:42:07Z] <dilyn> why would I do that...
[2021-07-07T18:42:18Z] <akira01> because i love my libressl
[2021-07-07T18:42:24Z] <dilyn> I mean, I've already forked KISS; it's github.com/dilyn-corner/KISS-me :P
[2021-07-07T18:42:32Z] <dilyn> i mean...
[2021-07-07T18:43:04Z] <dilyn> build python without ssl support and rebuild 'grep python */*/depends', see what breaks
[2021-07-07T18:43:22Z] <acheam> someone show this madlad kiss revdepends
[2021-07-07T18:44:11Z] <dilyn> well that only works for things you have installed
[2021-07-07T18:44:20Z] <dilyn> I have many packages installed that don't overlap with that^ list :)
[2021-07-07T18:44:49Z] <acheam> oh I only bother with packages I already have installed
[2021-07-07T18:45:00Z] <dilyn> weeeeeeeeellllllll
[2021-07-07T18:45:02Z] <acheam> guess its different when youre the BDFL(ish)
[2021-07-07T18:45:05Z] <dilyn> :)
[2021-07-07T18:45:18Z] <dilyn> for instance, with the suggested pax change, I rebuilt everything in repo/ && community/
[2021-07-07T18:45:26Z] <dilyn> btw testuser: android-tools doesn't build?
[2021-07-07T18:45:43Z] <dilyn> of our >600 packages, only mesa presents a problem with pax. and it's because of symlinks (:
[2021-07-07T18:46:14Z] <dilyn> ez fix, but I'd rather the behavior be specified before we use pax to avoid uneccessary breakage for poorly documented cases
[2021-07-07T18:47:30Z] <sad_plan> id say thats rather good tbh. could be way worse
[2021-07-07T18:47:39Z] <dilyn> indeed!
[2021-07-07T18:48:01Z] <acheam> you rebuilt 600 packages......
[2021-07-07T18:48:10Z] <dilyn> and it only took a whole evening
[2021-07-07T18:48:55Z] <sad_plan> says you and your -j24 - cries in -j6
[2021-07-07T18:49:02Z] <dilyn> jajajaja
[2021-07-07T18:49:08Z] <noocsharp> wait wtf, dylan is actually switching to openssl?
[2021-07-07T18:49:08Z] <sad_plan> lol
[2021-07-07T18:49:12Z] <dilyn> makes me almost okay with not having a 5900x (:
[2021-07-07T18:49:26Z] <dilyn> noochsharp: libressl is being pushed out of linux :\
[2021-07-07T18:49:33Z] <acheam> its only fair that Dylan sets up his computer as a distcc host
[2021-07-07T18:49:39Z] <sad_plan> is that final?
[2021-07-07T18:50:06Z] <acheam> I'll just stick on an old python version for as long as possible
[2021-07-07T18:50:16Z] <acheam> thatll buy a few years for me
[2021-07-07T18:50:17Z] <sad_plan> distcc, distrobution compiling computer or something?
[2021-07-07T18:50:20Z] <dilyn> I'm not even really convinced openssl is *that bad* atm
[2021-07-07T18:50:32Z] <dilyn> it's certainly seeing more work than the current *checks notes* three libressl devs
[2021-07-07T18:50:47Z] <acheam> its not that bad IMO. I just like code diversity
[2021-07-07T18:50:55Z] <sad_plan> is the libressl devs getting lazy?
[2021-07-07T18:51:00Z] <acheam> it is much heftier than libressl
[2021-07-07T18:51:21Z] <noocsharp> is it finally oasis time?
[2021-07-07T18:51:36Z] <dilyn> libressl just isn't at feature parity with openssl, and a lot of devs are just uninterested in maintaining two sets of code
[2021-07-07T18:51:38Z] <acheam> well oasis will face the same issue
[2021-07-07T18:51:41Z] <dilyn> whether that's warranted or not... /shrug
[2021-07-07T18:51:44Z] <acheam> with python
[2021-07-07T18:51:59Z] <noocsharp> well yeah, but i mean to avoid openssl
[2021-07-07T18:52:07Z] <noocsharp> i need to figure out what depends on libssl
[2021-07-07T18:52:42Z] <noocsharp> it's ssl: what features do you need?
[2021-07-07T18:52:58Z] <acheam> more than just ssl connections, its hashing functions, randomness, etc
[2021-07-07T18:53:14Z] <acheam> which is mostly what python uses it for
[2021-07-07T18:53:17Z] <dilyn> cmake, curl, git, gnupg, ssh, python, ntpd...
[2021-07-07T18:53:19Z] <noocsharp> yes, but crypto doesn't change
[2021-07-07T18:53:29Z] <noocsharp> just new algorithms occassionally
[2021-07-07T18:53:40Z] <acheam> 18 packages on my system depend on libressl :(
[2021-07-07T18:53:46Z] <sad_plan> Ive got 9pkgs that depends on it.
[2021-07-07T18:53:48Z] <dilyn> 7 :v
[2021-07-07T18:53:53Z] <acheam> bruh
[2021-07-07T18:53:55Z] <noocsharp> curl can do bearssl
[2021-07-07T18:54:02Z] <acheam> but nothing else can lol
[2021-07-07T18:54:11Z] <acheam> python is the big guy right now
[2021-07-07T18:54:13Z] <sad_plan> is wayland depended on libressl? of ay kind
[2021-07-07T18:54:19Z] <dilyn> 'ay kind'
[2021-07-07T18:54:20Z] <dilyn> no
[2021-07-07T18:54:23Z] <sad_plan> any*
[2021-07-07T18:54:30Z] <dilyn> ayland's ay types
[2021-07-07T18:54:35Z] <sad_plan> ay ay captain
[2021-07-07T18:54:43Z] <sad_plan> lol
[2021-07-07T18:54:53Z] <noocsharp> wait, why does git depend on libressl?
[2021-07-07T18:55:05Z] <sad_plan> its only a make dep though
[2021-07-07T18:55:07Z] <akira01> python will get ban or just a min package?
[2021-07-07T18:55:20Z] <acheam> noocsharp: cloning repos?
[2021-07-07T18:55:23Z] <dilyn> ^
[2021-07-07T18:56:00Z] <dilyn> well if nobody fixes up python to support libressl, OR nobody updates libressl to support what python is going to require, THEN openssl will probably replace libressl in october during 3.10 launch
[2021-07-07T18:56:00Z] <sad_plan> ^
[2021-07-07T18:56:14Z] <acheam> well how long is support for 3.9
[2021-07-07T18:56:16Z] <noocsharp> wait, then why can oasis have git without libressl?
[2021-07-07T18:56:17Z] <dilyn> five years
[2021-07-07T18:56:19Z] <acheam> or the LTS release before it?
[2021-07-07T18:56:19Z] <dilyn> lmfao
[2021-07-07T18:56:20Z] <noocsharp> probably uses curl or something
[2021-07-07T18:56:20Z] <claudia> dilyn: dont you hope in secret to move over to openssl? Because this will be much less pain for qt5, which is very nice!
[2021-07-07T18:56:29Z] <acheam> well then can we stay on 3.9 for 5 years?
[2021-07-07T18:56:31Z] <sad_plan> probably. ill suppose we'll see what dylan comes up with in the next few weeks or so
[2021-07-07T18:56:31Z] <acheam> I will be doing that
[2021-07-07T18:56:33Z] <dilyn> i don't really care all that much
[2021-07-07T18:56:42Z] <dilyn> dylan is working on removing the perl make requirement for openssl
[2021-07-07T18:56:59Z] <acheam> my problem with openssl isnt perl, its that it isnt libressl lol
[2021-07-07T18:57:07Z] <dilyn> my problem is mostly perl :v
[2021-07-07T18:57:13Z] <akira01> 5 years sounds great for me
[2021-07-07T18:57:15Z] <acheam> do you nojt have perl?
[2021-07-07T18:57:26Z] <acheam> i guess not that much depends on it
[2021-07-07T18:57:30Z] <noocsharp> it's amazing how much time people are willing to spend fixing lazy irreversible decisions
[2021-07-07T18:57:36Z] <acheam> I build my git with perl thoguh
[2021-07-07T18:57:58Z] <dilyn> exactly chromium depends on perl for my system
[2021-07-07T18:57:58Z] <sad_plan> only ff and autotools on my end. but ff only has it as make dep
[2021-07-07T18:58:01Z] <dilyn> hurts my little heart :(
[2021-07-07T18:59:03Z] <dilyn> mostly because gpl
[2021-07-07T18:59:07Z] <dilyn> although technically...
[2021-07-07T18:59:11Z] <dilyn> https://dev.perl.org/licenses/artistic.html
[2021-07-07T18:59:13Z] <dilyn> so /shrug
[2021-07-07T18:59:24Z] <acheam> i have 5 packages depending on perl
[2021-07-07T18:59:30Z] <acheam> all make deps
[2021-07-07T18:59:39Z] <acheam> so not trivial to patch out
[2021-07-07T18:59:39Z] <dilyn> that's usually the case
[2021-07-07T18:59:59Z] <acheam> I do use texinfo and autotools ocassionally though
[2021-07-07T19:00:05Z] <acheam> which are written in perl
[2021-07-07T19:08:32Z] <noocsharp> i hope python dropping libressl support doesn't lead others to do the same
[2021-07-07T19:09:15Z] * midfavila replaces the Python build scripts in every KISS package with an equivalent Scheme script
[2021-07-07T19:09:21Z] <midfavila> this is the power of lisp
[2021-07-07T19:09:31Z] <noocsharp> 10x slower
[2021-07-07T19:09:40Z] <midfavila> rude
[2021-07-07T19:09:55Z] <midfavila> scheme is fine
[2021-07-07T19:13:56Z] <sad_plan> dilyn, how do I start smdev? change mdev -s to smdev -s in init/rc.boot? I couldve sworn I tried that the last time, but I couldnt get it to start..
[2021-07-07T19:21:17Z] <dilyn> ls -l /usr/bin/smdev /usr/bin/mdev
[2021-07-07T19:21:20Z] <dilyn> kek
[2021-07-07T19:21:52Z] <sad_plan> isnt that basiclly the same as kiss a command..?
[2021-07-07T19:22:20Z] <sad_plan> ls? dont you mean ln?
[2021-07-07T19:22:23Z] <dilyn> you have to pass the 'elif command -v mdev...' block
[2021-07-07T19:22:27Z] <dilyn> yes ln sry
[2021-07-07T19:22:51Z] <sad_plan> lemme see
[2021-07-07T19:22:51Z] <dilyn> so you can either change every instance of 'mdev ' with smdev, or make a symlink
[2021-07-07T19:23:07Z] <dilyn> well actually smdev doesn't support df soooooooo
[2021-07-07T19:23:12Z] <sad_plan> symlink it is them. lol. why make it harder onmyself
[2021-07-07T19:23:17Z] <sad_plan> df?
[2021-07-07T19:23:20Z] <dilyn> -df
[2021-07-07T19:23:25Z] <sad_plan> what does that do?
[2021-07-07T19:23:36Z] <dilyn> daemonize, foreground it
[2021-07-07T19:23:56Z] <dilyn> but if you don't need a daemon... /shrug
[2021-07-07T19:24:18Z] <dilyn> i didn't do any work beyond making a symlink though. I didn't feel like thinking about it too much
[2021-07-07T19:24:25Z] <dilyn> totally forgot i was using smdev actually... heh
[2021-07-07T19:24:31Z] <sad_plan> tbh, is dunno if I do need it. why should I *need* it? or why do you need it?
[2021-07-07T19:24:42Z] <sad_plan> I knew because ive been stalking your repos the past week. kek
[2021-07-07T19:24:45Z] <dilyn> lol
[2021-07-07T19:24:56Z] <dilyn> permissions stuff is all i really care about a device manager for
[2021-07-07T19:25:02Z] <dilyn> hotplugging is overrated! just reboot!
[2021-07-07T19:26:16Z] <sad_plan> sure. ive been having to reboot anyway, because sometimes, when I plug my headset into the jack, my mouse reconnects. it was useless untill I rebooted. and that was even with eudev. so fuck eudev. not an issue anymore with libudev-zero
[2021-07-07T19:27:05Z] <dilyn> I should really investigate it more tho; the USB hubs on my motherboard get brought up at different times, and my keyboard rn comes up *last*. so even though I have a prompt after 1 second, I still have to wait five :|
[2021-07-07T19:27:09Z] <dilyn> it's the little things, y'know?
[2021-07-07T19:27:39Z] <sad_plan> I know :p
[2021-07-07T19:29:20Z] <noocsharp> that doesn't sound little
[2021-07-07T19:29:40Z] <sad_plan> are you happy about using sysmgr? ive been thinking about making the switch. noticed you having it in your repo
[2021-07-07T19:29:48Z] <dilyn> one of the hubs doesn't actually provide enough power for my keyboard, which I also need to investigate
[2021-07-07T19:30:02Z] <dilyn> sm is pretty wonderful. very simple, i only need it for ntpd tbh
[2021-07-07T19:30:24Z] <dilyn> it feels like basically a drop-in replacement for what busybox was providing me at least
[2021-07-07T19:31:30Z] <sad_plan> nice. are you using a hook instead to start wpa_supplicant? instead of using sm for it I mean
[2021-07-07T19:32:09Z] <dilyn> my pc has ethernet so I'm finally free of wpa_supplicant for the first time since... 2008...
[2021-07-07T19:32:16Z] <dilyn> tho i just used etc/rc.d
[2021-07-07T19:33:15Z] <sad_plan> aah, how wonderfull that would be, if that were the case for me aswell. wifi is an absolute turd at times.. I miss the stability and incresed speed with ethernet tbh.
[2021-07-07T19:33:47Z] <dilyn> pretty life changing
[2021-07-07T19:33:53Z] <dilyn> 2.5gig ethernet mmmmmmm
[2021-07-07T19:34:07Z] <dilyn> except I have nothing to leverage that, so it's mostly just a flex
[2021-07-07T19:34:25Z] <acheam> aw man I accidentally just deleted my visrc as I was implementing a backup system
[2021-07-07T19:34:28Z] <sad_plan> shiet. ive got 100mb at home, but im mostly on my laptop using my 4g from my phone, which is rather slow :')
[2021-07-07T19:35:08Z] <noocsharp> if only you had a back system
[2021-07-07T19:35:11Z] <noocsharp> backup*
[2021-07-07T19:37:02Z] <dilyn> if i get this job, then a new zfs raidz setup and a big ol' true nas are in my future
[2021-07-07T19:37:34Z] <dilyn> i would put KISS on the NAS but I don't think plex would play as nice as I want it to...
[2021-07-07T19:38:52Z] <sad_plan> probably not. why not use jellyfish instead? if that were the name. its foss. plex is.. not
[2021-07-07T19:39:25Z] <cem> I just use omv on my pi3
[2021-07-07T19:39:32Z] <dilyn> "meh foss"
[2021-07-07T19:40:29Z] <dilyn> am also considering emby
[2021-07-07T19:40:51Z] <dilyn> idk tho. plex is basically one-click on truenas. and I wouldn't have to think about much of anything, which is really tempting
[2021-07-07T19:42:21Z] <cem> Sorry not omv, osmc
[2021-07-07T19:42:26Z] <cem> omv is my NAS
[2021-07-07T19:42:36Z] <cem> OSMC for streaming media
[2021-07-07T19:42:51Z] <cem> And OSMC is pretty "one-click"
[2021-07-07T19:44:03Z] <dilyn> will keep in mind!
[2021-07-07T19:44:05Z] <sad_plan> dilyn, same issue again with smdev. just gives me the usage prompt when booting, and once I start X, no input possible. I recall trying to start it, but it doesnt work.
[2021-07-07T19:45:12Z] <dilyn> probably your devices aren't coming up fast enough
[2021-07-07T19:45:40Z] <sad_plan> so my laptop is too slow? :')
[2021-07-07T19:45:43Z] <dilyn> lol
[2021-07-07T19:45:53Z] <dilyn> you could do something like http://ix.io/3sfk in /etc/rc.d/perms.boot
[2021-07-07T19:46:10Z] <dilyn> the /dev/video* is a webcam
[2021-07-07T19:47:02Z] <cem> dilyn: Only thing that was inconvenient was setting up Netflix, because it's not in the default repository, but one can set it up on OSMC in less than half an hour
[2021-07-07T19:47:06Z] <sad_plan> ait. ill check!
[2021-07-07T19:47:28Z] <dilyn> netflix *shudder*
[2021-07-07T19:47:34Z] <dilyn> all their content is bad now!
[2021-07-07T19:47:48Z] <cem> Hey you said "meh foss" you can't judge me now
[2021-07-07T19:47:53Z] <dilyn> it's just a front to shill their poorly made and contrived stereotypical shows lmao
[2021-07-07T19:48:10Z] <cem> That's fair
[2021-07-07T19:48:20Z] <dilyn> I mostly just want a way to stream my copies of buffy and burn notice :v
[2021-07-07T19:48:23Z] <cem> I'm watching old shit anyway
[2021-07-07T19:48:25Z] <dilyn> i live in the mid 2000s
[2021-07-07T19:48:29Z] <cem> Same
[2021-07-07T19:48:33Z] <dilyn> :D
[2021-07-07T19:54:28Z] <sad_plan> hurray. it worked. I still get the prompt which says: usage mdev [-s] do you also get that one?
[2021-07-07T19:57:15Z] <dilyn> idk I'll have to pay attention next time i reboot
[2021-07-07T19:57:27Z] <dilyn> that's more than likely a problem with the mdev -df line tho (:
[2021-07-07T19:58:33Z] <sad_plan> possibly. I just notice it when booting up. but its no issue, seeing as it works anyway :p cheers. another step towards my plans :D
[2021-07-07T20:01:15Z] <sad_plan> g2g. bye :D
[2021-07-07T20:02:51Z] <schillingklaus> mdev replaces udev?
[2021-07-07T20:07:45Z] <midfavila> yes
[2021-07-07T20:10:34Z] <rio6> mid 2000s wasn't that long ag- wait since when it's 2021
[2021-07-07T20:38:28Z] <acheam> guess what command I just ran
[2021-07-07T20:44:24Z] <armin> acheam: rm -rf --no-preserve-root /
[2021-07-07T20:44:46Z] <acheam> thats a gnu flag heathen
[2021-07-07T20:45:14Z] <armin> you said we should guess.
[2021-07-07T20:45:40Z] <acheam> but instead you insulted me
[2021-07-07T20:45:50Z] <acheam> by suggesting I'd use such terrible software
[2021-07-07T20:45:56Z] <armin> O.O
[2021-07-07T20:46:55Z] <armin> acheam: so your rm reveals rm: illegal option -- - ?
[2021-07-07T20:47:41Z] <acheam> rm: unrecognized option: no-preserve-root
[2021-07-07T20:47:50Z] <armin> ok
[2021-07-07T20:47:52Z] <acheam> the only busybox options are -i, -f, -R/-r
[2021-07-07T20:47:59Z] <dilyn> rm -rf ~/.* ?
[2021-07-07T20:48:17Z] <acheam> sadly not
[2021-07-07T20:48:21Z] <acheam> it was "kiss r emacs"
[2021-07-07T20:48:23Z] <acheam> i am feww
[2021-07-07T20:48:28Z] <acheam> free*
[2021-07-07T20:48:34Z] <dilyn> all the cool kids rm in reverse
[2021-07-07T20:48:38Z] <acheam> mr?
[2021-07-07T20:48:43Z] <dilyn> gz
[2021-07-07T20:48:49Z] <acheam> pigz
[2021-07-07T20:51:06Z] <dilyn> multithreaded archive extraction is overrated
[2021-07-07T20:52:30Z] <cem> acheam: what did you switch to?
[2021-07-07T20:53:08Z] <acheam> vis, sfeed, mutt, git CLI, lynx
[2021-07-07T20:53:33Z] <dilyn> emacs so big
[2021-07-07T20:53:56Z] <acheam> oh and a git bare repo for dotfiles
[2021-07-07T20:54:04Z] <acheam> markdown instead of org
[2021-07-07T20:54:54Z] <cem> Nice
[2021-07-07T20:55:21Z] <cem> dilyn: I mean it's big, but the shared interface is really intuitive
[2021-07-07T20:55:25Z] <cem> At least for me
[2021-07-07T20:55:35Z] <dilyn> yeah i mean
[2021-07-07T20:55:43Z] <dilyn> all-in-one is great if you want a unity in your UI/UX
[2021-07-07T20:56:01Z] <cem> I had the exact setup with acheam before switching to emacs myself
[2021-07-07T20:56:15Z] <dilyn> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HOtgF3eCn-Y <- emcas
[2021-07-07T20:56:23Z] <noocsharp> what happened to nano?
[2021-07-07T20:57:10Z] <cem> lol I watched that video, but that's not true for emacs
[2021-07-07T20:57:14Z] <noocsharp> wait acheam: you're me now
[2021-07-07T20:57:23Z] <noocsharp> i thought i was special
[2021-07-07T20:57:31Z] <dilyn> let me continue living in my biased and poorly informed world cem :(
[2021-07-07T20:57:58Z] <acheam> sorry noocsharp you aren't
[2021-07-07T20:58:00Z] <cem> Back in 2010, I had a phone app like that though
[2021-07-07T20:58:11Z] <acheam> cem: lol we're reverse
[2021-07-07T20:58:27Z] <cem> Now I am special
[2021-07-07T20:59:49Z] <cem> That app had like all my MSN and Facebook chats, and it was seriously crap
[2021-07-07T21:00:59Z] <cem> And I'm pretty sure I shouldn't have trusted to use my passwords on that app
[2021-07-07T21:03:05Z] <noocsharp> pidgin?
[2021-07-07T21:04:08Z] <cem> No, not pidgin
[2021-07-07T21:04:29Z] <dilyn> pidgin is Good Software(tm)
[2021-07-07T21:04:31Z] <cem> I don't even remember what it was anymore, but I know that it's not pidgin
[2021-07-07T21:04:42Z] <cem> pidgin is crap, but a different kind of crap
[2021-07-07T21:04:50Z] <dilyn> there were a lot of those 'all in one messenger' apps back in the day
[2021-07-07T21:04:54Z] <dilyn> trillian, pidgin...
[2021-07-07T21:05:09Z] <dilyn> there was one that was like, honeycombed themed... best multi-protocol chat app ever
[2021-07-07T21:06:45Z] <cem> that sounds familiar
[2021-07-07T21:07:12Z] <dilyn> they silently blacklisted the unique device IDs of ipod touch and iphone users who had pirated the app off cydia and the like
[2021-07-07T21:07:19Z] <dilyn> it was something like 80% of their users lmfaoooo
[2021-07-07T21:07:25Z] <cem> But that was like 2008-2010, so I don't remember much about it
[2021-07-07T21:07:53Z] <cem> Oh well, mine was free
[2021-07-07T21:08:43Z] <noocsharp> that was before my time
[2021-07-07T21:09:57Z] <dilyn> :|
[2021-07-07T21:14:07Z] <cem> I was really active on facebook till 2012, then I deleted it
[2021-07-07T21:14:43Z] <cem> I still occasionally use instagram because all my friends still do
[2021-07-07T21:16:03Z] <cem> I kind of tried mastodon and pixelfed for a while, but I got bored really quickly
[2021-07-07T21:17:30Z] <dilyn> if only the network effect weren't real
[2021-07-07T21:17:48Z] <midfavila> >using social media
[2021-07-07T21:17:51Z] <midfavila> smhy
[2021-07-07T21:17:51Z] <noocsharp> ^
[2021-07-07T21:19:03Z] <noocsharp> irc is kind of as bad as social media, unless you're strict about sticking to purely technical discussions
[2021-07-07T21:19:23Z] <dilyn> > talking to people
[2021-07-07T21:19:28Z] <cem> i wouldn't say irc is a social media
[2021-07-07T21:19:30Z] <dilyn> > just as bad as data mining enterprises
[2021-07-07T21:19:41Z] <dilyn> zucc'd again!
[2021-07-07T21:19:53Z] <midfavila> IRC, Telegram, etc aren't really social media
[2021-07-07T21:20:01Z] <midfavila> they're social, sure, but they're not "media"
[2021-07-07T21:20:03Z] <noocsharp> it gives you that dopamine hit when someone replies to your messages, which makes it addictive
[2021-07-07T21:20:03Z] <midfavila> they're text
[2021-07-07T21:20:11Z] * midfavila blinks
[2021-07-07T21:20:20Z] <dilyn> can confirm, I get a headrush when cem mentions me
[2021-07-07T21:20:20Z] <midfavila> If you get a rush just from talking to people, you need to get out of the house more.
[2021-07-07T21:20:27Z] <cem> dilyn: :)
[2021-07-07T21:20:28Z] <midfavila> And that's coming from me.
[2021-07-07T21:20:31Z] <dilyn> :)
[2021-07-07T21:21:07Z] <midfavila> not that IRC isn't somewhat distracting
[2021-07-07T21:21:08Z] <noocsharp> not a rush, just a small hit, that keeps you checking your irc client
[2021-07-07T21:21:31Z] <midfavila> i mean... eh.
[2021-07-07T21:21:56Z] <cem> i mean, maybe, but that's not specifically a bad thing
[2021-07-07T21:22:09Z] <acheam> noocsharp: I still really like nano, however it isnt extensible which is a dealbreaker for me in the long run
[2021-07-07T21:22:16Z] <midfavila> rewrite nano in lisp
[2021-07-07T21:22:19Z] <acheam> I had already programmed like 5 custom functions for vis
[2021-07-07T21:22:30Z] <acheam> I also tried JOE which is really nice
[2021-07-07T21:22:35Z] <acheam> but again, not extensible
[2021-07-07T21:22:43Z] <midfavila> pico>nano>micro
[2021-07-07T21:23:00Z] <acheam> vis is epic, its like vi but extensible
[2021-07-07T21:23:05Z] <acheam> the regex stuff is meh for me
[2021-07-07T21:23:07Z] <cem> midfavila: do you know where I can obtain pico?
[2021-07-07T21:23:15Z] <midfavila> you can't
[2021-07-07T21:23:17Z] <midfavila> not standalone
[2021-07-07T21:23:22Z] <midfavila> it's part of a mail suite
[2021-07-07T21:23:25Z] <midfavila> nano is a clone of pico
[2021-07-07T21:23:27Z] <acheam> install pine
[2021-07-07T21:23:34Z] <cem> oh alright
[2021-07-07T21:24:08Z] <noocsharp> so what i hear is 10^-12 > 10^-9 > 10^-6
[2021-07-07T21:24:18Z] <cem> I knew that nano was a clone of pico, I just thought that pico was this old software that was no longer being distributed
[2021-07-07T21:24:19Z] <dilyn> lmfao
[2021-07-07T21:24:35Z] <midfavila> mathtards triggered again
[2021-07-07T21:24:38Z] <midfavila> all according to plan
[2021-07-07T21:24:58Z] <midfavila> cem nah, pico was originally not GPL compatible
[2021-07-07T21:25:19Z] <cem> based
[2021-07-07T21:27:11Z] <midfavila> anyway, I need to do some more work.
[2021-07-07T21:27:19Z] <midfavila> try not to burn the place down without me.
[2021-07-07T21:27:49Z] <cem> how can the place burn down without you and dilyn arguing?
[2021-07-07T21:29:01Z] <jstnas> oof
[2021-07-07T22:27:56Z] <riteo> hiiii!
[2021-07-07T22:35:59Z] <acheam> hello.
[2021-07-07T22:49:55Z] <nerditup> dilyn noocsharp midfavila cem -- have a headrush on me
[2021-07-07T22:50:10Z] <midfavila> uh
[2021-07-07T22:50:11Z] <midfavila> um
[2021-07-07T22:50:15Z] <nerditup> midfavila: out of his flow now
[2021-07-07T22:50:17Z] <nerditup> my bad
[2021-07-07T22:50:18Z] <midfavila> ...your mom is proprietary software?
[2021-07-07T22:50:40Z] <midfavila> i'm trying to work through relational equations, I can't insult you and do math at the same time
[2021-07-07T22:50:40Z] <midfavila> smh
[2021-07-07T22:50:45Z] <midfavila> your standards are too high
[2021-07-07T22:50:51Z] <riteo> smh indeed
[2021-07-07T22:50:56Z] <nerditup> I expect more from you midfavila
[2021-07-07T22:51:08Z] <midfavila> i will forever disappoint you
[2021-07-07T22:51:14Z] <midfavila> 'tis the only thing I'm good at
[2021-07-07T22:51:50Z] <nerditup> I consider GitHub as social media
[2021-07-07T22:53:51Z] <riteo> I mean
[2021-07-07T22:53:55Z] <riteo> it sort of is
[2021-07-07T22:54:03Z] <midfavila> it has followers and shit
[2021-07-07T22:54:04Z] <midfavila> so
[2021-07-07T22:54:05Z] <midfavila> yeah
[2021-07-07T22:54:11Z] <midfavila> it's kind of cringe
[2021-07-07T22:54:22Z] <riteo> also it's got statuses
[2021-07-07T22:54:52Z] <riteo> why do you need "dewelopwing the latest bloat uwu~" with an obligatory emoji for
[2021-07-07T22:55:02Z] <riteo> s/why/what/
[2021-07-07T22:55:47Z] <midfavila> because
[2021-07-07T22:55:48Z] <midfavila> swag
[2021-07-07T22:55:57Z] <riteo> epic
[2021-07-07T22:56:29Z] <riteo> god, now I feel obliged to set it as my status
[2021-07-07T22:56:57Z] <nerditup> I clicked the rocket ship on the latest kiss release, I am ashamed
[2021-07-07T22:57:04Z] <midfavila> devewoping the watest bwoatware uwuwuwuwuwuwuwuwuwuwu~ :sparkle emoji: :rocket emoji: :heart:
[2021-07-07T22:57:25Z] <midfavila> disgusting nerditup
[2021-07-07T22:57:31Z] <midfavila> you are banished to kiss-graveyard
[2021-07-07T22:57:35Z] <midfavila> never again to return to community
[2021-07-07T22:57:55Z] <nerditup> :broken-heart:
[2021-07-07T22:59:29Z] <dilyn> i enjoy setting my status to troll people
[2021-07-07T22:59:56Z] <midfavila> do you live in a society dilyn
[2021-07-07T23:00:05Z] <riteo> I did it
[2021-07-07T23:00:06Z] <dilyn> not really
[2021-07-07T23:00:11Z] <riteo> I set my status
[2021-07-07T23:00:20Z] <midfavila> do you want a cookie?
[2021-07-07T23:00:46Z] <riteo> no thanks
[2021-07-07T23:00:53Z] <midfavila> good, I wasn't sharing anyway
[2021-07-07T23:01:04Z] <riteo> doing it was the reward already
[2021-07-07T23:01:06Z] <midfavila> white macadamia nut cookies aren't for sharing
[2021-07-07T23:01:32Z] <riteo> understandable
[2021-07-07T23:02:05Z] <midfavila> i should make some soon
[2021-07-07T23:02:11Z] <riteo> also, why aren't the emojis centered or the status thing round
[2021-07-07T23:02:19Z] <riteo> god it's awful
[2021-07-07T23:02:30Z] <riteo> ok wtf
[2021-07-07T23:02:34Z] <riteo> it's actually better without js
[2021-07-07T23:02:43Z] <riteo> like, it works as intended and is more estetically pleasing
[2021-07-07T23:02:55Z] <midfavila> wrong
[2021-07-07T23:02:59Z] <midfavila> JS makes everything better
[2021-07-07T23:03:17Z] <riteo> how in the actual fuck does turning on js mess something that already works
[2021-07-07T23:03:19Z] <midfavila> you will enable the coffee procedure programs and you will be happy
[2021-07-07T23:04:07Z] <riteo> I want to die
[2021-07-07T23:04:15Z] <midfavila> computer says no
[2021-07-07T23:04:24Z] <acheam> noocsharp: can I ask you a random mutt question, because the poeple in #mutt haven't helped?
[2021-07-07T23:04:26Z] <riteo> time to switch to gitdab
[2021-07-07T23:04:32Z] <midfavila> >gitdab
[2021-07-07T23:04:35Z] * midfavila wheezes
[2021-07-07T23:04:35Z] <riteo> yes
[2021-07-07T23:04:39Z] <riteo> that's nothing
[2021-07-07T23:04:47Z] <riteo> there's a whole world of weird gittea instances
[2021-07-07T23:04:53Z] <riteo> one time I found out femgit
[2021-07-07T23:05:03Z] <midfavila> womyn only
[2021-07-07T23:05:08Z] <riteo> woman?
[2021-07-07T23:05:14Z] <acheam> https://lavatech.top/
[2021-07-07T23:05:18Z] <riteo> yes
[2021-07-07T23:05:24Z] <riteo> look at the testimonials
[2021-07-07T23:05:30Z] <acheam> https://fem.mint.lgbt/
[2021-07-07T23:05:46Z] <riteo> oh you found its link
[2021-07-07T23:05:52Z] <riteo> epic, I lost it some time ago
[2021-07-07T23:05:54Z] <midfavila> >git for femboys
[2021-07-07T23:05:57Z] <midfavila> why
[2021-07-07T23:05:58Z] <riteo> yes
[2021-07-07T23:06:02Z] <riteo> btw: https://elixi.re/i/qpajgf6p.jpg
[2021-07-07T23:06:13Z] <riteo> best testimonials ever
[2021-07-07T23:08:25Z] <riteo> so yes, it will not be as nice as sourcehut but it'll be at least slightly less shitty I suppose
[2021-07-07T23:08:39Z] <midfavila> you heard the man, dilyn
[2021-07-07T23:08:45Z] <midfavila> we're packing up and moving
[2021-07-07T23:08:52Z] <midfavila> lavatech is the new home of kiss
[2021-07-07T23:08:58Z] <riteo> oh look at it, it doesn't even require js
[2021-07-07T23:09:01Z] <riteo> I would've swore it did
[2021-07-07T23:09:12Z] <noocsharp> acheam: sure
[2021-07-07T23:09:22Z] <riteo> I might unironically switch to it
[2021-07-07T23:09:34Z] <midfavila> maximum internets
[2021-07-07T23:09:36Z] <acheam> noocsharp: have you ever had trouble with the change-folder command?
[2021-07-07T23:10:00Z] <noocsharp> no? what specifically is happening?
[2021-07-07T23:10:25Z] <acheam> if I change folder, key bindings stop working and everything I type gets echoed onto the screen
[2021-07-07T23:10:27Z] <dilyn> a git for femboys is a git made for me
[2021-07-07T23:10:39Z] <midfavila> uh-huh.
[2021-07-07T23:11:22Z] <acheam> Thanks for the inspiration to add the fortune file again
[2021-07-07T23:11:30Z] <riteo> oh no, gitdab has hcaptcha
[2021-07-07T23:11:36Z] <riteo> so for registering you must enable js
[2021-07-07T23:11:43Z] <acheam> better than rcapcha
[2021-07-07T23:11:50Z] <riteo> true, true
[2021-07-07T23:11:51Z] <midfavila> >be me, new kiss user
[2021-07-07T23:11:51Z] <midfavila> >log in for the first time
[2021-07-07T23:11:51Z] <midfavila> >greeted with "a git for femboys is a git for me - Dilyn, BDFL"
[2021-07-07T23:11:51Z] <midfavila> >uninstall
[2021-07-07T23:11:55Z] <noocsharp> acheam: weird, it works fine for me
[2021-07-07T23:12:05Z] <riteo> lmao
[2021-07-07T23:12:12Z] <dilyn> > be me
[2021-07-07T23:12:15Z] <dilyn> > see greentext
[2021-07-07T23:12:17Z] <dilyn> > uninstall
[2021-07-07T23:12:24Z] <noocsharp> >be me
[2021-07-07T23:12:26Z] <riteo> dilyn femboy was quite an unexpected turn
[2021-07-07T23:12:29Z] <acheam> noocsharp: okay thanks
[2021-07-07T23:12:31Z] <midfavila> >>be you
[2021-07-07T23:12:31Z] <midfavila> >not greentexting on irc
[2021-07-07T23:12:34Z] <riteo> > bee
[2021-07-07T23:12:36Z] <dilyn> i have been called many things
[2021-07-07T23:12:37Z] <midfavila> >beee
[2021-07-07T23:12:38Z] <nerditup> > be
[2021-07-07T23:12:40Z] <riteo> >
[2021-07-07T23:12:49Z] <midfavila> ><>
[2021-07-07T23:12:56Z] <midfavila> quality discussion
[2021-07-07T23:13:02Z] <nerditup> I learned a bunch
[2021-07-07T23:13:05Z] <riteo> only the best at #kisslinux
[2021-07-07T23:13:08Z] <nerditup> > be me, learn a bunch
[2021-07-07T23:13:10Z] <nerditup> > uninstall
[2021-07-07T23:13:21Z] <riteo> >be me
[2021-07-07T23:13:24Z] <riteo> >uninstall
[2021-07-07T23:13:24Z] <midfavila> you've officially killed the meme
[2021-07-07T23:13:56Z] * nerditup waits for "be me, kill the meme"
[2021-07-07T23:14:02Z] <midfavila> no
[2021-07-07T23:14:03Z] <midfavila> stop
[2021-07-07T23:14:05Z] <midfavila> >:C
[2021-07-07T23:14:06Z] <nerditup> it's over
[2021-07-07T23:14:18Z] <midfavila> mandatory fun minute has concluded
[2021-07-07T23:14:22Z] <riteo> yes
[2021-07-07T23:14:23Z] <nerditup> accepted
[2021-07-07T23:14:29Z] <jstnas> back to work now
[2021-07-07T23:14:38Z] <riteo> now, how do I turn gitdab even more based by running hcaptcha without js
[2021-07-07T23:14:54Z] <midfavila> maximum based: a git hosted on gopher
[2021-07-07T23:15:05Z] <riteo> eh, gemini's the future
[2021-07-07T23:15:10Z] <riteo> I'm sure though that it's because of utf-8
[2021-07-07T23:15:11Z] <midfavila> not really.
[2021-07-07T23:15:17Z] <riteo> i mean, that you don't like it
[2021-07-07T23:15:23Z] <jstnas> html6 is the future
[2021-07-07T23:15:25Z] <midfavila> no, that's also not it
[2021-07-07T23:15:25Z] <riteo> damn me and my too early enter key
[2021-07-07T23:15:40Z] <riteo> oh, why do you prefer gopher then?
[2021-07-07T23:15:40Z] <midfavila> i dislike gemini because all of its clients are in GTK3, and more importantly, it's a shit protocol
[2021-07-07T23:15:48Z] <noocsharp> there are literally tuis
[2021-07-07T23:15:55Z] <riteo> >all of its clients are in GTK3
[2021-07-07T23:15:59Z] <midfavila> TUIs don't count
[2021-07-07T23:16:05Z] <midfavila> and neither does anything else that proves me wrong
[2021-07-07T23:16:06Z] <riteo> bruh I didn't even know that there were GUI clients
[2021-07-07T23:16:10Z] <nerditup> everyone should share their favourite kernel config
[2021-07-07T23:16:11Z] <midfavila> goalposts are moving so fast they're a blur
[2021-07-07T23:16:17Z] <riteo> wut
[2021-07-07T23:16:23Z] <midfavila> anyway,
[2021-07-07T23:16:28Z] <midfavila> ignoring that I don't like the clients,
[2021-07-07T23:16:28Z] <dilyn> my favorite kernel config is a config that works
[2021-07-07T23:16:28Z] <riteo> mid how do people browse gopher if not without a TUI
[2021-07-07T23:16:35Z] <midfavila> using a graphical client?
[2021-07-07T23:16:36Z] <midfavila> those exist
[2021-07-07T23:16:53Z] <riteo> mid you're talking about a plaintext protocol
[2021-07-07T23:16:59Z] <midfavila> but basically, I want a lighter HTML, not a heavier gopher
[2021-07-07T23:17:01Z] <midfavila> and yes, yes I am
[2021-07-07T23:17:33Z] <midfavila> also the "everything is encrypted!!!!!" is a meme
[2021-07-07T23:18:08Z] <riteo> are you saying that TLS is a meme
[2021-07-07T23:18:08Z] <midfavila> no business is conducted and there's no server-client communication beyond the initial capsule transfer or w/e, afaik
[2021-07-07T23:18:18Z] <midfavila> i'm saying that TLS applied with a broad brush is a meme
[2021-07-07T23:18:29Z] <riteo> you can do stuff with gemini though
[2021-07-07T23:18:29Z] <midfavila> if you're not doing something worth securing, then securing it is a waste of effort
[2021-07-07T23:18:31Z] <midfavila> like,
[2021-07-07T23:18:33Z] <midfavila> for example,
[2021-07-07T23:18:41Z] <midfavila> my site doesn't host anything other than static text or images
[2021-07-07T23:18:47Z] <midfavila> you're not really interacting with anything
[2021-07-07T23:18:49Z] <riteo> also certificates become a way of user authentication there IIRC
[2021-07-07T23:18:54Z] <riteo> your site mid
[2021-07-07T23:18:54Z] <midfavila> so why would I bother?
[2021-07-07T23:19:02Z] <riteo> this isn't midopher
[2021-07-07T23:19:11Z] <midfavila> mopher
[2021-07-07T23:19:27Z] <riteo> it's a protocol made to satisfy multiple usecases
[2021-07-07T23:19:36Z] <midfavila> and hey, if there are uses for them on gemini beyond meme TLS, go for it
[2021-07-07T23:19:55Z] <midfavila> but encryption for the sake of encryption is dumb
[2021-07-07T23:20:05Z] <riteo> I mean
[2021-07-07T23:20:21Z] <claudia02> Are there kernel patches someone can recommend? I found this one from clear linux to reduce boot time slightly. https://github.com/clearlinux-pkgs/linux/blob/master/0109-initialize-ata-before-graphics.patch
[2021-07-07T23:20:24Z] <riteo> not having the risk of a MITM attack changing links is nice
[2021-07-07T23:20:39Z] <riteo> also not risking getting snooped on
[2021-07-07T23:20:48Z] <midfavila> it's publicly available material
[2021-07-07T23:20:51Z] <midfavila> what's there to snoop on
[2021-07-07T23:21:00Z] <midfavila> the links thing is fair, but also hugely improbable
[2021-07-07T23:21:11Z] <riteo> well, what pages you look at and when
[2021-07-07T23:21:13Z] <dilyn> i was mostly using clear patches claudia
[2021-07-07T23:21:18Z] <dilyn> nowadays I don't so much bother
[2021-07-07T23:21:50Z] <midfavila> DNS records are likely still plaintext so it wouldn't matter if the retrieval info is available
[2021-07-07T23:21:59Z] * midfavila shrugs
[2021-07-07T23:22:16Z] <illiliti> my ISP does MITM on http to inject ads
[2021-07-07T23:22:36Z] <riteo> in fact I said which pages, not which sites
[2021-07-07T23:22:50Z] <jstnas> gotta throw your whole ISP away
[2021-07-07T23:22:51Z] <illiliti> i also have to use dnscrypt to prevent sniffing
[2021-07-07T23:22:57Z] <riteo> I know DNSes are a thing, but with encryption you can't know the full url
[2021-07-07T23:23:04Z] <claudia02> Y, making my machine faster boot is definately not important, but nice.
[2021-07-07T23:23:47Z] <riteo> how much is that sligthly claudia?
[2021-07-07T23:23:51Z] <midfavila> if I know the machine you're connecting to, the specific page isn't really important
[2021-07-07T23:24:22Z] <riteo> that was sudden
[2021-07-07T23:24:24Z] <dilyn> that patch nets a couple hundred ms
[2021-07-07T23:24:29Z] <midfavila> thanks for crashing, pidgin
[2021-07-07T23:24:32Z] <midfavila> great programming
[2021-07-07T23:24:37Z] <riteo> amazing
[2021-07-07T23:24:37Z] <midfavila> god, I can't wait until I can replace this program
[2021-07-07T23:24:47Z] <riteo> swallow the jjpill
[2021-07-07T23:24:48Z] <claudia02> dilynm, you once had a linux-nitrous packages. Was this a "notably" improvement?
[2021-07-07T23:24:51Z] <midfavila> maybe I should write my own multiprotocol client
[2021-07-07T23:24:54Z] <dilyn> nah
[2021-07-07T23:25:02Z] <midfavila> tdlib is a thing so it can't be too hard
[2021-07-07T23:25:31Z] <dilyn> kernel optimizations result in very little performance gains, UNLESS your kernel was absolute garbage beforehand
[2021-07-07T23:25:43Z] <midfavila> muh full-kernel preemption
[2021-07-07T23:25:48Z] <dilyn> but PGO would probably be very worth doing, and net way more improvements
[2021-07-07T23:25:56Z] <dilyn> linux-rt is the way
[2021-07-07T23:26:01Z] <midfavila> yeah but pgo is a pain in the ass
[2021-07-07T23:26:13Z] <dilyn> not really
[2021-07-07T23:26:24Z] <midfavila> it requires more effort than "set some cflags"
[2021-07-07T23:26:30Z] <midfavila> which is more effort than I'm willing to expend tbqh
[2021-07-07T23:27:00Z] <dilyn> the effort it requires is 'use your kernel as you would normally use your kernel, and then rebuild your kernel {like you were already going to at some near-future time anyways}"
[2021-07-07T23:27:10Z] <midfavila> i'm talking about the whole system
[2021-07-07T23:27:23Z] <midfavila> the kernel or just gcc or something would be easy
[2021-07-07T23:27:48Z] <dilyn> \._./
[2021-07-07T23:27:51Z] <dilyn> cool story bro
[2021-07-07T23:29:26Z] <claudia02> How do I collect this profile data, is there a process in the background that does the collect thing?
[2021-07-07T23:29:37Z] <midfavila> it's a compiler flag
[2021-07-07T23:29:44Z] <midfavila> -fgenerate-profile or something like that, iirc
[2021-07-07T23:30:07Z] <dilyn> profile data is generated as the thing runs and gets emitted into *profraw files
[2021-07-07T23:30:34Z] <dilyn> currently I believe they will live in /sys/kernel/*somewhere*
[2021-07-07T23:31:49Z] <claudia02> /sys/kernel/debug/pgo/profraw.
[2021-07-07T23:32:04Z] <claudia02> Reading a phorinix article rn. https://www.phoronix.com/scan.php?page=news_item&px=Clang-PGO-For-Linux-Next
[2021-07-07T23:32:12Z] <dilyn> assuming they don't change it between rc1 and rc15 lol
[2021-07-07T23:33:19Z] <claudia02> This sounds like a neat feature and convinient to use.
[2021-07-07T23:33:57Z] <dilyn> its utility will mostly be based on whether or not your own workflow is actually benefitted by these optimizations
[2021-07-07T23:34:21Z] <dilyn> but I mean... there's not really a good reason *not* to do it, when you make your own kernels
[2021-07-07T23:34:47Z] <dilyn> and presumably distros who package their own kernels will leverage it at some future time, and you'll have access to all sorts of different kernel profiles
[2021-07-07T23:34:51Z] <claudia02> In another article it was said, that this will prob affect bigger server workloads. Which is comprahensible
[2021-07-07T23:40:11Z] <riteo> oooh the thing of the day is pax
[2021-07-07T23:40:20Z] <riteo> is there gonna be a paxvolution soon?
[2021-07-07T23:40:33Z] <dilyn> :)
[2021-07-07T23:41:00Z] <riteo> epic