💾 Archived View for gemini.ctrl-c.club › ~phoebos › logs › kisslinux-2021-05-30.txt captured on 2024-05-10 at 14:25:01.
⬅️ Previous capture (2021-12-17)
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[2021-05-30T00:00:28Z] <acheam> zr: dilyn is back
[2021-05-30T00:01:22Z] <riteo> cem: that's some pretty strong zoomerism lmao
[2021-05-30T00:02:00Z] <cem> Yeah, I regretted sending that immediately
[2021-05-30T00:02:32Z] <riteo> I was actually about talking about hating yourself
[2021-05-30T00:02:46Z] <cem> lmao
[2021-05-30T00:03:58Z] <cem> I was listening to songs I used to listen back on high school
[2021-05-30T00:04:06Z] <cem> That's probably why I said that
[2021-05-30T00:04:10Z] <cem> flashbacks
[2021-05-30T00:04:28Z] <riteo> amazing
[2021-05-30T01:05:11Z] <acheam> which posix standard should I comply to?
[2021-05-30T02:00:20Z] <riteo_> gtg to sleep, gn!
[2021-05-30T04:06:45Z] <noocsharp> acheam: in what context?
[2021-05-30T04:13:40Z] <noocsharp> also what are you doing that it would matter?
[2021-05-30T04:19:31Z] <acheam> noocsharp: uh what is this about?
[2021-05-30T04:23:39Z] <noocsharp> "which posix standard should I comply to?"
[2021-05-30T04:24:52Z] <noocsharp> you asked which posix standard to use
[2021-05-30T04:28:58Z] <acheam> oh right
[2021-05-30T04:29:20Z] <acheam> just for my personal programs
[2021-05-30T04:29:30Z] <acheam> that require POSIXy things that aren't in c99
[2021-05-30T04:29:33Z] <acheam> such as popen
[2021-05-30T05:11:36Z] <testuser[m]_> hi
[2021-05-30T05:15:39Z] <acheam> hey testuser[m]_
[2021-05-30T05:16:41Z] <acheam> done with school?
[2021-05-30T05:16:48Z] <testuser[m]_> Sunday
[2021-05-30T05:17:16Z] <testuser[m]_> online schlol is like 2-3 hrs so ive practically been on vacation since like a year
[2021-05-30T05:18:24Z] <acheam> by done with school I meant for the year, not for the day
[2021-05-30T05:18:34Z] <testuser[m]_> no
[2021-05-30T05:18:37Z] <acheam> i'm not *that* out of touch with reality
[2021-05-30T05:18:47Z] <testuser[m]_> 2 years
[2021-05-30T05:18:50Z] <testuser[m]_> soon
[2021-05-30T06:42:18Z] <midfavila> i'm not done with class myself for another three weeks or so...
[2021-05-30T06:42:34Z] <midfavila> college fucking sucks.
[2021-05-30T07:07:55Z] <testuser[m]_> \hug
[2021-05-30T07:25:09Z] <midfavila-laptop> man, you know what would be awesome
[2021-05-30T07:25:18Z] <midfavila-laptop> a proper CHM viewer for linux
[2021-05-30T07:25:29Z] <testuser[m]_> whats CHM
[2021-05-30T07:25:38Z] <midfavila-laptop> it's microsoft's last-gen help file format
[2021-05-30T07:25:46Z] <midfavila-laptop> Compiled HTML
[2021-05-30T07:26:16Z] <midfavila-laptop> it was reveng'd decades ago, but it's super cool, I think
[2021-05-30T07:26:25Z] <midfavila-laptop> especially for, say, e-books.
[2021-05-30T07:26:50Z] <midfavila-laptop> you might even be able to get away with expanding manpages for use as CHMs. I 'unno.
[2021-05-30T07:44:58Z] <midfavila-laptop> https://vid.puffyan.us/watch?v=U4f0ocneHVs acheam sotd suggestion
[2021-05-30T15:42:51Z] <riteo> hiii!
[2021-05-30T15:43:02Z] <midfavila> hello, riteo
[2021-05-30T15:45:33Z] <testuser[m]_> hi
[2021-05-30T15:49:01Z] <acheam> hi riteo , good to see you
[2021-05-30T15:58:03Z] <midfavila> http://0x0.st/-2VX.c
[2021-05-30T15:58:04Z] <midfavila> behold
[2021-05-30T15:58:12Z] <midfavila> the latest in my crimes against computer programming
[2021-05-30T15:58:29Z] <acheam> > he doesn't put spaces between for/if and paren
[2021-05-30T15:58:35Z] <midfavila> that's right
[2021-05-30T15:58:39Z] <midfavila> what're you gonna do about it
[2021-05-30T15:58:40Z] <midfavila> huh?
[2021-05-30T15:58:47Z] <acheam> or after //
[2021-05-30T15:58:49Z] <acheam> this is kill
[2021-05-30T15:59:04Z] <midfavila> cursed program
[2021-05-30T15:59:06Z] <acheam> or around equal signs!!!
[2021-05-30T15:59:09Z] <acheam> okay mid
[2021-05-30T15:59:11Z] <acheam> so you see that button
[2021-05-30T15:59:15Z] <acheam> at the bottom of the keyboard
[2021-05-30T15:59:16Z] <acheam> the long one?
[2021-05-30T15:59:19Z] <midfavila> nope
[2021-05-30T15:59:30Z] <acheam> well look harder
[2021-05-30T15:59:39Z] <midfavila> i'm looking real hard
[2021-05-30T15:59:41Z] <midfavila> you mean like
[2021-05-30T15:59:47Z] <midfavila> the big small-tab button?
[2021-05-30T15:59:52Z] <acheam> yes!
[2021-05-30T15:59:55Z] <acheam> click that!
[2021-05-30T16:00:00Z] <midfavila> no, it's obsolete
[2021-05-30T16:00:07Z] <midfavila> thought-leader says that tabs good, small-tabs bad
[2021-05-30T16:00:13Z] <acheam> if it was obsolete why'd they make it so big
[2021-05-30T16:00:19Z] <acheam> -- the caps lock key
[2021-05-30T16:00:23Z] <midfavila> something something typewriters
[2021-05-30T16:00:25Z] <midfavila> whoa hey
[2021-05-30T16:00:27Z] <acheam> im all for tab indentation
[2021-05-30T16:00:28Z] <midfavila> back off me man
[2021-05-30T16:00:30Z] <midfavila> back off
[2021-05-30T16:00:35Z] <midfavila> the caps lock serves a valuable function
[2021-05-30T16:00:42Z] <acheam> OH DOES IT??
[2021-05-30T16:00:52Z] <midfavila> IT DOES. DIDN'T YOU KNOW THAT CAPS IS CRUISE CONTROL FOR COOL?
[2021-05-30T16:01:20Z] <testuser[m]_> USE BRACES AFTER YOUR IF STATEMENTS MID
[2021-05-30T16:01:37Z] <midfavila> no
[2021-05-30T16:01:37Z] <midfavila> >:c
[2021-05-30T16:01:57Z] <midfavila> you'll all see
[2021-05-30T16:02:08Z] <midfavila> one of these days my amazing C style will take off
[2021-05-30T16:02:30Z] <midfavila> and you'll look like a buncha normies, using *spaces* and *indentation* and *braces*
[2021-05-30T16:02:30Z] <acheam> unrelated but CGI is the shit
[2021-05-30T16:02:34Z] <midfavila> CGI is very cool, yes
[2021-05-30T16:02:42Z] <acheam> i'm a static page convert
[2021-05-30T16:02:56Z] <midfavila> i need to tinker with it, I want to add a simple photo gallery to my site
[2021-05-30T16:03:06Z] <acheam> have converted 3 of my web things into CGI from static
[2021-05-30T16:04:07Z] <midfavila> well, photo gallery is probably an overstatement. literally just "for each file in files/photos/* display thumbnail with link to original"
[2021-05-30T16:04:22Z] <acheam> oh that shouldn't be hard
[2021-05-30T16:04:28Z] <acheam> you could do that with a shell script
[2021-05-30T16:04:29Z] <riteo> yeah, mid's C style is a bit weird
[2021-05-30T16:04:39Z] <midfavila> yeah, it would be super easy in shell
[2021-05-30T16:04:40Z] <riteo> but I like it, somehow
[2021-05-30T16:04:46Z] <midfavila> all of the SDF pages are generated with ksh and awk
[2021-05-30T16:05:01Z] <midfavila> thanks riteo~ <3
[2021-05-30T16:05:02Z] <acheam> midfavila: I present to you the holy grails:
[2021-05-30T16:05:06Z] <acheam> https://text.causal.agency/020-c-style.txt
[2021-05-30T16:05:09Z] <acheam> https://git.sr.ht/~sircmpwn/cstyle
[2021-05-30T16:05:22Z] <midfavila> okay, so
[2021-05-30T16:05:23Z] <midfavila> unironically
[2021-05-30T16:05:30Z] <midfavila> if you use literal tabs in your programs,
[2021-05-30T16:05:33Z] <midfavila> you're a bad person
[2021-05-30T16:05:36Z] <jslick> lol https://github.com/kiss-community/website/pull/7/files#diff-57aaa0068e424329e92ac8f1c162d153b0b3fed2f1bcda9788404fa0ffff91c8R47
[2021-05-30T16:05:38Z] <riteo> I do though
[2021-05-30T16:05:42Z] <riteo> I mean, why shouldn't you?
[2021-05-30T16:05:44Z] <midfavila> but you're not as bad of a person as the type who mixes literal tabs and spaces
[2021-05-30T16:05:54Z] <midfavila> because tabs don't have fixed width across different editors riteo
[2021-05-30T16:05:54Z] <riteo> oh god that's just *evil*
[2021-05-30T16:06:00Z] <riteo> so?
[2021-05-30T16:06:08Z] <riteo> that looks like a pro to me
[2021-05-30T16:06:16Z] <riteo> I mean, you're not drawing ASCII art, you're writing code
[2021-05-30T16:06:18Z] <midfavila> so if you write your program with tab-indent in a zoomer editor
[2021-05-30T16:06:23Z] <midfavila> and I try to edit it in like
[2021-05-30T16:06:24Z] <midfavila> vi
[2021-05-30T16:06:31Z] <midfavila> it's gonna be all over the damn place
[2021-05-30T16:06:36Z] <midfavila> doubly so if you mix tabs and spaces
[2021-05-30T16:06:46Z] <riteo> then just resize tab to be 4 wide
[2021-05-30T16:06:52Z] <midfavila> not always possible
[2021-05-30T16:07:00Z] <midfavila> how about you just set your tab to insert four spaces?
[2021-05-30T16:07:09Z] <riteo> because that's just stupid
[2021-05-30T16:07:19Z] <riteo> also, not always possible
[2021-05-30T16:07:32Z] <acheam> or just use tabs and give the power to the user to decide how they want to display it
[2021-05-30T16:07:36Z] <riteo> exactly
[2021-05-30T16:07:42Z] <midfavila> noooooooooooooooooooooooooooo
[2021-05-30T16:07:49Z] <midfavila> you can't just write your documents the way you want to
[2021-05-30T16:07:58Z] <riteo> it's too late mid, two people are against your argument, you lost
[2021-05-30T16:08:05Z] <midfavila> fuck
[2021-05-30T16:08:13Z] <testuser[m]_> yes
[2021-05-30T16:08:46Z] <midfavila> i do want to develop my own style later on, though
[2021-05-30T16:08:56Z] <riteo> yeah it'd be really the cherry on top IMO
[2021-05-30T16:08:58Z] <ang> make that three, spaces FUCKING SUCK
[2021-05-30T16:09:02Z] <jslick> just alternate, best of both worlds. project A uses tabs, project B uses spaces
[2021-05-30T16:09:03Z] <midfavila> the concept of functional programming is interesting
[2021-05-30T16:09:13Z] <midfavila> jslick I'll kill you I swear to god
[2021-05-30T16:09:15Z] <midfavila> never say that again
[2021-05-30T16:09:16Z] <midfavila> >:C
[2021-05-30T16:09:31Z] <jslick> what is wrong with that?
[2021-05-30T16:09:31Z] <ang> alternate by line, even cooler
[2021-05-30T16:09:33Z] <midfavila> this is a holier crusade than vi vs emacs
[2021-05-30T16:09:36Z] <midfavila> no
[2021-05-30T16:09:37Z] <midfavila> fucking
[2021-05-30T16:09:38Z] <midfavila> mercy
[2021-05-30T16:09:51Z] <acheam> I do have a repo where some of my files are 2 space indent, some are 4 space indent, and some are tab indent
[2021-05-30T16:09:56Z] <midfavila> you know who else uses tabs, acheam?
[2021-05-30T16:09:58Z] <midfavila> drunkards
[2021-05-30T16:10:02Z] <midfavila> are you a drunkard?
[2021-05-30T16:10:10Z] <acheam> I present to you the greaest, most standard repo of them all:https://git.armaanb.net/bin/tree/?id=2a5674a5a26af6e74a51907d17f0401d3c8c4064
[2021-05-30T16:10:22Z] <acheam> midfavila: yes.
[2021-05-30T16:10:31Z] <midfavila> at least you're honest
[2021-05-30T16:10:32Z] <midfavila> uwu
[2021-05-30T16:10:56Z] <riteo> oh my god acheam why did you do this
[2021-05-30T16:11:22Z] <acheam> uhh lots of editor/config hopping
[2021-05-30T16:11:35Z] <acheam> i will go through right now and standardize it
[2021-05-30T16:11:45Z] <riteo> will you do it by hand?
[2021-05-30T16:11:52Z] <midfavila> i went through all my shell scripts a while back and did that
[2021-05-30T16:11:53Z] <acheam> no
[2021-05-30T16:11:54Z] <acheam> ==
[2021-05-30T16:12:06Z] <riteo> I'm curious, how will you fix it? Sed?
[2021-05-30T16:12:19Z] <acheam> open them in emacs, and use the automatic indentation command
[2021-05-30T16:12:23Z] <riteo> oh cool
[2021-05-30T16:12:28Z] <acheam> because I use evil mode, its mapped to ==
[2021-05-30T16:12:30Z] <acheam> its in vim too
[2021-05-30T16:12:33Z] <midfavila> why not just like
[2021-05-30T16:12:47Z] <midfavila> sed s/ */[tab]/g
[2021-05-30T16:12:54Z] <noocsharp> mid: i suggest that you don't use bool as a variable name generally because it becomes a type as soon as you #include <stdbool.h>
[2021-05-30T16:13:12Z] <midfavila> noocsharp yeah, I know it's not the best name
[2021-05-30T16:13:12Z] <jslick> or just :retab!
[2021-05-30T16:13:24Z] <midfavila> but I haven't worked with booleans themselves yet
[2021-05-30T16:13:31Z] <midfavila> and I'm trying to stick to what K&R has introduced so far
[2021-05-30T16:13:45Z] <midfavila> so I figured it didn't matter.
[2021-05-30T16:13:55Z] <noocsharp> ah ok
[2021-05-30T16:14:34Z] <midfavila> one thing I really need to work on is drafting an idea instead of just diving right into my text editor
[2021-05-30T16:15:12Z] <midfavila> any program/script I've ever written that was actually presentable was planned out, first
[2021-05-30T16:15:33Z] <june> bool didn't exist in ANSI C :)
[2021-05-30T16:15:40Z] <midfavila> oh, well, there you go
[2021-05-30T16:15:48Z] <midfavila> there's another reason for it to not be much of a problem, haha
[2021-05-30T16:15:58Z] <riteo> midfavilla: yeah, that's a good thing to learn
[2021-05-30T16:16:14Z] <riteo> I mean, for small programs it's probably easier to just dive right into it and then at most refactor it later
[2021-05-30T16:16:24Z] <riteo> you know, make it work first
[2021-05-30T16:16:26Z] <midfavila> you would think so, but I disagree
[2021-05-30T16:16:43Z] <midfavila> i spent like five hours tinkering on 1-18's solution without a plan
[2021-05-30T16:16:53Z] <june> I mean I think sticking to a standard published 32 years ago is a bit silly
[2021-05-30T16:16:56Z] <midfavila> and then spent five minutes writing a solution down, then implementing that solution in maybe half an hour
[2021-05-30T16:17:06Z] <acheam> ansi C is just inconvinient
[2021-05-30T16:17:16Z] <midfavila> C99 will come later.
[2021-05-30T16:17:22Z] <midfavila> i don't intend to write GTK programs in ansi c
[2021-05-30T16:17:26Z] <midfavila> that sounds like hell
[2021-05-30T16:17:30Z] <riteo> wait, you aren't writing stuff in c99?
[2021-05-30T16:17:33Z] <midfavila> no
[2021-05-30T16:17:48Z] <midfavila> i'm sticking exclusively to what K&R has introduced
[2021-05-30T16:18:00Z] <riteo> is it c89?
[2021-05-30T16:18:09Z] <midfavila> so all I can work with is for/while loops, if statements, and put/getchar, as well as printf and basic variables
[2021-05-30T16:18:12Z] <midfavila> and yes, c89 is ansi c
[2021-05-30T16:18:17Z] <noocsharp> one of these days i'm gonna make a programming language that's literally just c without the bad stuff
[2021-05-30T16:18:20Z] <riteo> oh
[2021-05-30T16:18:42Z] <riteo> noocsharp: Have you looked at crowbar?
[2021-05-30T16:18:42Z] <acheam> if you're working with for/while loops then c89 is the most inconvinient
[2021-05-30T16:18:44Z] <midfavila> one thing that really struck me as irksome is the dismissal they had towards = and ==
[2021-05-30T16:18:51Z] <acheam> because you cant declare the counter variable
[2021-05-30T16:18:57Z] <acheam> within the thing
[2021-05-30T16:19:01Z] <midfavila> meh
[2021-05-30T16:19:23Z] <midfavila> i can see why that would be convenient, but working with convenient tools is a poor method of learning the fundaments, I think
[2021-05-30T16:19:39Z] <june> I find C89's requirement that variables are declared at the top of a function make it hard to read
[2021-05-30T16:19:51Z] <midfavila> hmm.
[2021-05-30T16:19:56Z] <midfavila> i haven't found C89 difficult to read.
[2021-05-30T16:20:05Z] <midfavila> ...then again, you've probably seen my shell scripts.
[2021-05-30T16:20:11Z] <june> when the code starts using a new variable and the declaration is already off the top of your screen and you need to scroll back up to check what type it is
[2021-05-30T16:20:12Z] * midfavila shudders
[2021-05-30T16:20:57Z] <june> what is the dismissal of = and ==?
[2021-05-30T16:21:23Z] <midfavila> they mention that "sometimes novices will use = as an equality check instead of ==. the result is usually valid, so there will be no warning"
[2021-05-30T16:21:30Z] <acheam> right
[2021-05-30T16:21:33Z] <midfavila> that kind of bugs me about C
[2021-05-30T16:21:41Z] <midfavila> it's tripped me up a few times
[2021-05-30T16:21:42Z] <june> modern compilers have warnings for that
[2021-05-30T16:21:46Z] <midfavila> clearly not
[2021-05-30T16:21:51Z] <june> you need to turn them on
[2021-05-30T16:22:06Z] <acheam> with -Wall -Wextra gcc/clang will warn about that stuff
[2021-05-30T16:22:08Z] <june> using C without -Wall -Wextra is like walking blindfolded
[2021-05-30T16:22:12Z] <acheam> ^
[2021-05-30T16:22:16Z] <midfavila> okay, well,
[2021-05-30T16:22:21Z] <acheam> -Wall -Wextra -std=c99 -pedantic
[2021-05-30T16:22:26Z] <midfavila> it would have been awesome if someone had told me that before
[2021-05-30T16:22:47Z] <midfavila> because I've literally just been "cc foo.c"'ing
[2021-05-30T16:22:52Z] <testuser[m]_> -fanalyzer can be usefull too
[2021-05-30T16:22:57Z] <acheam> yeah... don't do that
[2021-05-30T16:22:58Z] <testuser[m]_> useful
[2021-05-30T16:23:05Z] <midfavila> >:VVVVVVVVVVVVVVV
[2021-05-30T16:23:11Z] <acheam> I also don't use tcc for development
[2021-05-30T16:23:20Z] <acheam> for the nice warnings
[2021-05-30T16:23:20Z] <june> echo "CFLAGS += -Wall -Wextra" >Makefile && make foo
[2021-05-30T16:23:34Z] <midfavila> there's so much shit that you're expected to know intrinsically when it comes to programming, it feels like
[2021-05-30T16:24:10Z] <acheam> testuser[m]_: thanks, will have to play around with that
[2021-05-30T16:24:55Z] <midfavila> just tested with -Wall, flags using void for main as an error. that's stupid.
[2021-05-30T16:25:17Z] <riteo> wasn't it supposed to be an int?
[2021-05-30T16:25:31Z] <midfavila> it's not *supposed* to be anything.
[2021-05-30T16:25:31Z] <riteo> that looks like an error to me
[2021-05-30T16:25:40Z] <midfavila> it's *suggested* that it be int,
[2021-05-30T16:25:44Z] <riteo> how will you return the exit codes then?
[2021-05-30T16:25:53Z] <midfavila> exit codes aren't needed in simple programs.
[2021-05-30T16:26:07Z] <testuser[m]_> -Wall doesn't imply -Werror do you can ignorw it ?
[2021-05-30T16:26:10Z] <june> pretty sure in C89 main is required to be declared int main
[2021-05-30T16:26:19Z] <midfavila> well, pretty sure it's not
[2021-05-30T16:26:26Z] <midfavila> considering I've been declaring my mains as void since the start.
[2021-05-30T16:26:31Z] <riteo> I knew that implicit exit code returning was a """""new""""" thing
[2021-05-30T16:26:41Z] <riteo> not something from ansi c
[2021-05-30T16:26:43Z] <midfavila> K&R suggests it
[2021-05-30T16:26:49Z] <midfavila> so it's not """""new"""""
[2021-05-30T16:26:55Z] <riteo> I see
[2021-05-30T16:26:59Z] <midfavila> but like,
[2021-05-30T16:27:01Z] <june> yeah in C99 you don't need to return a value from main
[2021-05-30T16:27:06Z] <midfavila> if my shitty histogram program breaks
[2021-05-30T16:27:10Z] <riteo> gtg for a moment
[2021-05-30T16:27:12Z] <midfavila> i don't need a return code to tell me that
[2021-05-30T16:27:15Z] <june> it's declared int and implicitly returns 0
[2021-05-30T16:27:21Z] <midfavila> ew.
[2021-05-30T16:27:26Z] <midfavila> i don't like that.
[2021-05-30T16:27:57Z] <june> and yet you don't want to return anything from main!
[2021-05-30T16:28:13Z] <midfavila> right, I don't. which is why it's declared void.
[2021-05-30T16:28:28Z] <midfavila> if *I* was in charge of things, main wouldn't return anything if not explicitly stated.
[2021-05-30T16:28:34Z] <midfavila> main() would be equivalent to void main()
[2021-05-30T16:28:41Z] <midfavila> not int main()
[2021-05-30T16:28:57Z] <june> well that's just not how it is
[2021-05-30T16:29:12Z] <midfavila> doesn't change my opinion on it. = w=
[2021-05-30T16:29:46Z] <june> there is runtime code that calls your main function, and that runtime code needs an exit status to use when your function returns
[2021-05-30T16:30:19Z] <midfavila> why does it need an exit code?
[2021-05-30T16:30:29Z] <midfavila> more importantly, what changed from 89 to 99 that warranted that?
[2021-05-30T16:30:32Z] <midfavila> legit questions
[2021-05-30T16:31:06Z] <june> because that's how processes work
[2021-05-30T16:31:14Z] <midfavila> ...I mean.
[2021-05-30T16:31:24Z] <midfavila> ...my programs run just fine without using return at all.
[2021-05-30T16:31:33Z] <testuser[m]_> echo $?
[2021-05-30T16:31:38Z] <june> yes and their exit code (in C89) is undefined
[2021-05-30T16:33:14Z] <midfavila> so long as nothing is depending on that, who cares?
[2021-05-30T16:33:16Z] <june> yeah C89 says there are only two ways to declare main:
[2021-05-30T16:33:17Z] <june> int main(void) { /*...*/ }
[2021-05-30T16:33:20Z] <june> int main(int argc, char *argv[]) { /*...*/ }
[2021-05-30T16:33:24Z] <riteo> here I am
[2021-05-30T16:33:42Z] <midfavila> K&R doesn't say anything of the sort.
[2021-05-30T16:34:04Z] <acheam> semi-related question
[2021-05-30T16:34:07Z] <june> K&R is not a language specification
[2021-05-30T16:34:23Z] <acheam> if I need argv, but not argc, how can I do that without a compiler warning
[2021-05-30T16:34:23Z] <midfavila> right, but I'm not implementing a compiler.
[2021-05-30T16:34:42Z] <acheam> because if I use argc,argv in the main declaration, I don't use argc
[2021-05-30T16:34:56Z] <acheam> do I just cast it to void or something?
[2021-05-30T16:35:00Z] <june> (void)argc;
[2021-05-30T16:35:08Z] <acheam> hm thanks
[2021-05-30T16:35:15Z] <june> is the usual idiom for marking unused parameters
[2021-05-30T16:35:28Z] <acheam> oh heres another style question
[2021-05-30T16:35:40Z] <acheam> when do I put space between the cast type and the thing to be casted
[2021-05-30T16:35:56Z] <acheam> I usually put a space between malloc and (type), but not between (type) and variable
[2021-05-30T16:36:29Z] <june> this is similar to where does the * go
[2021-05-30T16:37:09Z] <acheam> hmm so always to the right?
[2021-05-30T16:37:15Z] <june> (type) is a high-precedence right-to-left associativity operator
[2021-05-30T16:37:33Z] <acheam> still, it feels weird to write:
[2021-05-30T16:37:42Z] <acheam> (char *)malloc(10)
[2021-05-30T16:37:45Z] <acheam> but maybe thats just me
[2021-05-30T16:37:51Z] <june> so it's the same as a ! for example. you'd write !foo, so you'd write (int)foo
[2021-05-30T16:38:28Z] <june> at least that's the justification. write how you want :)
[2021-05-30T16:38:38Z] <acheam> thanks!
[2021-05-30T16:39:56Z] <june> the place I make an exception for this, because it's not really the same imo, is in compound literals
[2021-05-30T16:40:04Z] <acheam> a what now
[2021-05-30T16:40:21Z] <june> (struct Foo) { 1, 2, 3 } looks much nicer than (struct Foo){ 1, 2, 3 }
[2021-05-30T16:40:28Z] <acheam> ah yeah
[2021-05-30T16:42:57Z] <june> ah actually found a good way to link the relevant section of C89: http://port70.net/~nsz/c/c89/c89-draft.html#2.1.2.2
[2021-05-30T16:43:17Z] <june> C89 is harder to find a good copy of than more recent standards
[2021-05-30T16:43:47Z] <acheam> there is quite an irony of linking to http link from port70.net
[2021-05-30T16:43:54Z] <acheam> same as the logs in our topic lol
[2021-05-30T16:45:49Z] <noocsharp> riteo: crowbar looks interesting, but i think i would want something simpler
[2021-05-30T16:46:01Z] <midfavila> scheeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeme
[2021-05-30T16:46:42Z] <midfavila> i mean, or wisp. wisp is even simpler than scheme, at the cost of syntactically significant whitespace
[2021-05-30T16:47:03Z] <june> midfavila: you say nothing depends on it, but are you really never going to run your program with && after it? ever? for sure?
[2021-05-30T16:47:13Z] <midfavila> yes, june, positive
[2021-05-30T16:47:42Z] <midfavila> as it stands my programs are not intended to be scriptable. they are simple enough that if you wanted to script them, you can modify them for your own needs
[2021-05-30T16:48:08Z] <riteo> noocsharp I see
[2021-05-30T16:48:14Z] <midfavila> when I write programs that *are* intended to be scripted, I will return exit codes, because at such a time they're actually going to be useful
[2021-05-30T16:48:51Z] <riteo> noocsharp: maybe I got another "simpler C" kind of project for you. What would you use it for?
[2021-05-30T16:48:52Z] <june> you've definitely spent more time typing into IRC about this than it would've taken to replace void with int and add return 0; though
[2021-05-30T16:49:19Z] <midfavila> yup, I have. because I don't particularly need my main to return an int.
[2021-05-30T16:49:53Z] <midfavila> until such time I do, I will continue to cast main as void.
[2021-05-30T16:49:55Z] * midfavila shrugs
[2021-05-30T16:50:11Z] <june> and your programs will continue to be incorrect
[2021-05-30T16:50:19Z] <june> something to be said about habit development, I think
[2021-05-30T16:50:58Z] <midfavila> the compiler seems pretty happy with my programs.
[2021-05-30T16:50:59Z] <june> like oh I don't *need* to check if this function call succeeds, this is just a toy program. so you don't develop the habit of error checking
[2021-05-30T16:51:02Z] <noocsharp> riteo: i would mostly want to make the language to learn how to build a compiler, and maybe use it for other esoteric projects
[2021-05-30T16:51:07Z] <riteo> mhh
[2021-05-30T16:51:15Z] <midfavila> june it's a matter of "It's unneeded in this instance."
[2021-05-30T16:51:43Z] <riteo> noocsharp do you know that devault is making a system language aimed at that? Maybe you could take a peek at it, altought it hasn't released yet
[2021-05-30T16:52:04Z] <june> here's the thing about C compilers: they're pretty much happy to compile a literal turd
[2021-05-30T16:52:19Z] <midfavila> cool.
[2021-05-30T16:52:30Z] <noocsharp> riteo: ive seen it, looks interesting, but the main reason i would make my own language is to learn how compilers work
[2021-05-30T16:52:38Z] <riteo> oh, I see
[2021-05-30T16:52:46Z] <riteo> so you want to make more of a toy language?
[2021-05-30T16:53:13Z] <midfavila> write a POSIX shell compiler
[2021-05-30T16:53:17Z] <noocsharp> probably, maybe if it gets good enough, actually use it for things
[2021-05-30T16:53:19Z] <midfavila> maximum cursedness.
[2021-05-30T16:53:25Z] <noocsharp> midfavila: i an not that much of a masochist
[2021-05-30T16:53:34Z] <midfavila> make a POSIX shell compiler in POSIX shell
[2021-05-30T16:53:38Z] <riteo> noocsharp: cool idea
[2021-05-30T17:30:43Z] <cy6x> @testuser, hi again :). I reinstalled gkiss just in case, but this time i took into account everything you told me: "ln -s /etc/sv/seatd /var/service" and "echo -e '#!/bin/sh\n\n/bin/modprobe nvidia-drm modeset=1' > /etc/rc.d/modules.boot". The strange error that appeared last time remains. I want to debug the program, but I still don't understand how to do it. Could you please explain how to do this for
[2021-05-30T17:30:49Z] <cy6x> a beginner (with the commands)?
[2021-05-30T17:32:53Z] <testuser[m]_> before building anything with debug symbols, try plain "ulimit -c unlimited" and see if the trace says anything uswful
[2021-05-30T17:33:55Z] <testuser[m]_> (ulimit -c unlimited; sway --args)
[2021-05-30T17:34:51Z] <cy6x> ok, i'll try
[2021-05-30T17:48:59Z] <cy6x> there is no difference with or without using the command in the output
[2021-05-30T17:50:54Z] <cy6x> the output is the same
[2021-05-30T17:57:07Z] <cy6x> hmm
[2021-05-30T17:58:46Z] <acheam> ugh writing documentation is the worst, I can see why so many projects just don't do it
[2021-05-30T18:03:32Z] <riteo> acheam: just think all the times when you couldn't do something due to missing documentation and how much you/anybody using your program will be frustrated
[2021-05-30T18:04:13Z] <riteo> you'll write it in flash
[2021-05-30T18:05:06Z] <midfavila> ngl I've always looked forward to writing docs for stuff I write
[2021-05-30T18:05:18Z] <midfavila> it's my own little opportunity to gush about what I've done.
[2021-05-30T18:06:55Z] <midfavila> now,
[2021-05-30T18:07:03Z] <midfavila> writing docs for *other* projects? *that* would be a pain
[2021-05-30T18:07:29Z] <midfavila> because then you have to pore over the source code and figure out what everything does.
[2021-05-30T18:07:37Z] <riteo> I mean, if you really care for that piece of software why not?
[2021-05-30T18:08:08Z] <midfavila> oh, if you already care for it, then it's whatever. you're used to staring at the source all day and probably know it in and out
[2021-05-30T18:08:33Z] <midfavila> but if you've got a super-complex program that you've never read before, well...
[2021-05-30T18:08:47Z] <midfavila> let's just say I don't envy anyone who writes docs for Mesa, LLVM or GCC
[2021-05-30T18:10:14Z] <riteo> I see
[2021-05-30T18:10:18Z] <riteo> yeah I agree
[2021-05-30T18:12:42Z] <testuser[m]_> cy6x: running ulimit -c unlimited before running the cmd should always show a trace on segfault
[2021-05-30T18:12:48Z] <testuser[m]_> is it not-segfaulting now ?
[2021-05-30T18:14:40Z] <acheam> riteo: nah i'm a selfish son of a bitch
[2021-05-30T18:14:46Z] <acheam> but I did finish writing all of it
[2021-05-30T18:17:15Z] <testuser[m]_> nice
[2021-05-30T18:23:57Z] <cy6x> testuser: https://my-files.su/Save/lsm1nt/20210530_212003.jpg , no it shows segmentation fault
[2021-05-30T18:33:14Z] <kqz> what version of libglvnd do you have installed, off the top of my heads looks similar to https://gitlab.freedesktop.org/glvnd/libglvnd/-/merge_requests/235 but eglstreams really induces a whole lot of...not goodness
[2021-05-30T18:35:24Z] <cy6x> 1.3.3 1
[2021-05-30T18:42:18Z] <kqz> ah, that commit should be part of that release, no idea what's causing it then
[2021-05-30T18:45:08Z] <cy6x> that's true, i checked. but thanks for the help anyway
[2021-05-30T18:51:14Z] <riteo> acheam: nice
[2021-05-30T22:29:35Z] <m3g> can fvwm treat super as modifier?
[2021-05-30T22:35:33Z] <acheam> id be very surprised if it couldnt
[2021-05-30T22:35:35Z] <acheam> midfavila:
[2021-05-30T22:36:33Z] <zr> m3g: by "super" you mean what's usually the windows key, no? most wms have that
[2021-05-30T23:05:14Z] <midfavila> it can't
[2021-05-30T23:05:22Z] <midfavila> super is treated as a regular input button
[2021-05-30T23:05:37Z] <midfavila> you would have to patch the source, although I imagine it's a relatively easy change.
[2021-05-30T23:06:39Z] <kernelc> Has anyone compiled https://github.com/oasislinux/netsurf with tiny frontend?
[2021-05-30T23:07:02Z] <midfavila> "Tiny"?
[2021-05-30T23:07:29Z] <kernelc> yes
[2021-05-30T23:07:40Z] <midfavila> i'm asking you to expand on that.
[2021-05-30T23:07:43Z] <midfavila> what do you mean by "tiny"?
[2021-05-30T23:07:58Z] <kernelc> https://github.com/oasislinux/netsurf/tree/oasis/frontends/tiny
[2021-05-30T23:08:32Z] <midfavila> = w=
[2021-05-30T23:10:08Z] <kernelc> AFAIK it was created for use with oasislinux, which has its own build system, so Makefiles and build instructions are missing
[2021-05-30T23:34:15Z] <cem> kernelc: My main suggestion would be just asking mcf on IRC, but oasis' build files also show exactly what needs to be compiled and linked together
[2021-05-30T23:34:45Z] <cem> It's kind of cryptic for the first time you are looking at oasis' build system, but you get easily used to it
[2021-05-30T23:35:39Z] <cem> https://github.com/oasislinux/oasis/blob/master/pkg/netsurf/gen.lua
[2021-05-30T23:36:03Z] <cem> Though browsers are always complicated stuff :)