💾 Archived View for gemini.ctrl-c.club › ~phoebos › logs › freenode-kisslinux-2021-04-26.txt captured on 2024-05-10 at 14:26:26.
⬅️ Previous capture (2021-12-17)
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2021-04-26T00:01:44 #kisslinux <aarng> it's definitely useful sometimes
2021-04-26T00:02:16 #kisslinux <aarng> I use it when I'm fairly sure a directory is empty
2021-04-26T00:03:11 #kisslinux <aarng> my rm is alias'd to rm -i, so rmdir saves me from pressing y or using rm -f
2021-04-26T00:03:17 #kisslinux <acheam> I guess I just like to live on the edge :)
2021-04-26T00:03:22 #kisslinux <aarng> and getting in a habit of using -rf is a bad idea
2021-04-26T00:03:27 #kisslinux <acheam> yeah
2021-04-26T00:04:22 #kisslinux <acheam> if your coreutils supports it, rm -I is very nice too btw
2021-04-26T00:04:44 #kisslinux <acheam> but it isn't posix
2021-04-26T00:04:58 #kisslinux <acheam> its just a slightly less invasive version of rm -i
2021-04-26T00:05:11 #kisslinux <aarng> I used to use it
2021-04-26T00:05:37 #kisslinux <aarng> but yeah, portability
2021-04-26T00:09:23 #kisslinux <acheam> hmm it doesn't look hard at all to patch into busybox
2021-04-26T00:09:59 #kisslinux <aarng> can imagine it being fairly easy, yep
2021-04-26T00:10:45 #kisslinux <aarng> speaking of portability, I've got an idea for an sed -i wrapper
2021-04-26T00:10:53 #kisslinux <acheam> do tell
2021-04-26T00:11:26 #kisslinux <aarng> the wrapper could be called sed and live in a separate bin directory
2021-04-26T00:11:57 #kisslinux <aarng> then we would only have to change $PATH in kiss before calling the build script
2021-04-26T00:12:33 #kisslinux <aarng> the wrapper then deletes that special bin dir from $PATH, does it's magic and calls the real sed
2021-04-26T00:12:45 #kisslinux <aarng> no absolute paths needed
2021-04-26T00:13:36 #kisslinux <aarng> that way it's completely seamless
2021-04-26T00:13:44 #kisslinux <acheam> makes sense
2021-04-26T00:17:00 #kisslinux <aarng> problem is the option parsing of the wrapper, it's not that trivial to do in shell
2021-04-26T00:17:32 #kisslinux <aarng> because sed can have multiple -e and -f's
2021-04-26T00:18:42 #kisslinux <aarng> and you need to remove every instance of -i while also allowing combined options (-iniiii)
2021-04-26T00:18:58 #kisslinux <aarng> but I have a solution I think
2021-04-26T00:21:04 #kisslinux <E5ten> -i either has a required or optional argument, so -i<anything but an arg> is invalid
2021-04-26T00:21:22 #kisslinux <E5ten> so like -iniiii isn't -i -n -i -i -i -i, it's -i with argument niiii
2021-04-26T00:22:13 #kisslinux <aarng> I wouldn't support the backup file argument tbh
2021-04-26T00:22:51 #kisslinux <aarng> unlikely it's ever used in build scripts and makefiles/build systems
2021-04-26T00:24:23 #kisslinux <E5ten> I see
2021-04-26T00:26:06 #kisslinux <aarng> if I would support it, I can't really use getopts to get the -i parameter
2021-04-26T00:26:50 #kisslinux <aarng> because gnu and bsd require no space between -i and the backup file argument, right?
2021-04-26T00:27:09 #kisslinux <E5ten> only gnu (and impls trying to match it)
2021-04-26T00:27:27 #kisslinux <E5ten> bsds are where it's required arg, so space or no space, whatever follows the -i is the arg to -i
2021-04-26T00:27:52 #kisslinux <aarng> ah right, that's how it was on bsd
2021-04-26T00:28:22 #kisslinux <aarng> fucking GNU, they ruin everything :D
2021-04-26T00:30:02 #kisslinux <E5ten> in fairness to GNU on this one, while they certainly did fuck it up, there weren't exactly great options lol
2021-04-26T00:30:33 #kisslinux <midfavila> GNU is in a bad position. they have to both innovate to stay ahead of proprietary software *and* match every notable feature
2021-04-26T00:30:44 #kisslinux <aarng> optional parameters are just bad in my opinion
2021-04-26T00:31:10 #kisslinux <aarng> not even sure if all of this is worth it
2021-04-26T00:31:22 #kisslinux <E5ten> like option 1, match bsd, kinda sucks cuz almost every use case you don't want a backup, so you have to pass -i '', option 2, no arg, kinda unacceptable because then it's literally impossible to have a sed invocation with -i that works for gnu and bsd (like with the current situation if you do sed -itmp or something like that it'll work for both), option 3, what they did, bad because optional args are bad
2021-04-26T00:31:24 #kisslinux <aarng> I mean it would enable people to use sbase and obase
2021-04-26T00:31:46 #kisslinux <aarng> but we still wouldn't be posix because of `install`
2021-04-26T00:32:05 #kisslinux <E5ten> is install used in kiss itself or do you mean for build scripts?
2021-04-26T00:32:40 #kisslinux <aarng> build scripts
2021-04-26T00:32:45 #kisslinux <E5ten> iirc install usage in kiss itself was removed (I think I might've played a role in this one but I could be mixing it up with other portability improvements I did)
2021-04-26T00:33:26 #kisslinux <aarng> I actually haven't checked the offical repo, maybe we are install free there, no idea
2021-04-26T00:34:02 #kisslinux <aarng> kiss itself has no install, fairly sure
2021-04-26T00:34:32 #kisslinux <E5ten> for sed -i usage, probably simpler than the wrapper solution (but requires reusedish code for each build script that uses it) they could do like sed expr file > file.tmp and then mv file.tmp file
2021-04-26T00:34:46 #kisslinux <E5ten> not great but none of the options really are lol
2021-04-26T00:35:15 #kisslinux <aarng> yeah, that's the best option really
2021-04-26T00:35:21 #kisslinux <aarng> but I doubt dilyn wants it
2021-04-26T00:35:48 #kisslinux <aarng> we would also have to patch more packages
2021-04-26T00:36:10 #kisslinux <E5ten> alternatively file could be read into a variable, the variable's contents could be piped to sed which would be redirected to write to the file, but that seems even worse to me
2021-04-26T00:36:11 #kisslinux <aarng> re option 2: I would do the tmp file in the wrapper
2021-04-26T00:37:00 #kisslinux <aarng> so if there is a -i, I loop over all file arguments and redirect into a tmp file, then mv -f it
2021-04-26T00:37:24 #kisslinux <E5ten> an advantage of the option I just mentioned is no possibility of conflicting with existing files (which is not a great selling point, odds of file.tmp existing in the source seem very slim)
2021-04-26T00:37:53 #kisslinux <aarng> yeah, I'd use sed.$USER.$ or something
2021-04-26T00:37:53 #kisslinux <E5ten> an advantage over the .tmp method not over the arg-less -i method obviously
2021-04-26T00:38:11 #kisslinux <aarng> yep got it that way
2021-04-26T00:38:52 #kisslinux <E5ten> I mean the writer of the build script probably knows what files are present, so they can just check for the existence of file.tmp in the codebase (very unlikely lol) before they choose what to write to before mv
2021-04-26T00:39:18 #kisslinux <E5ten> I don't mean check in the script I mean check while writing the script/when the package is updated I guess
2021-04-26T00:39:35 #kisslinux <aarng> ah, yes
2021-04-26T00:40:56 #kisslinux <midfavila> do any of you guys have experience building Ruby programs?
2021-04-26T00:41:11 #kisslinux <kiedtl> "building" Ruby programs?
2021-04-26T00:41:14 #kisslinux <aarng> not at all, no
2021-04-26T00:41:16 #kisslinux <midfavila> keep in mind,
2021-04-26T00:41:20 #kisslinux <midfavila> I've never touched Ruby
2021-04-26T00:41:31 #kisslinux <acheam> what are you trying to run?
2021-04-26T00:41:31 #kisslinux <kiedtl> neither have I
2021-04-26T00:41:41 #kisslinux <midfavila> Currently packaging asciidoctor
2021-04-26T00:41:44 #kisslinux <kiedtl> but, I mean, what's there to build? Isn't it an interpreted language?
2021-04-26T00:41:49 #kisslinux <midfavila> if it is,
2021-04-26T00:41:54 #kisslinux <midfavila> then I'm going to go commit sudoku
2021-04-26T00:41:56 #kisslinux <kiedtl> s/what's there to build/what do you mean by build/
2021-04-26T00:41:56 #kisslinux <movzbl> <kiedtl> but, I mean, what do you mean by build? Isn't it an interpreted language?
2021-04-26T00:42:19 #kisslinux <midfavila> the project page just says "lol use gem"
2021-04-26T00:42:36 #kisslinux <midfavila> which is a language package manager, but like
2021-04-26T00:42:45 #kisslinux <midfavila> how 'bout I don't?
2021-04-26T00:45:10 #kisslinux <E5ten> midfavila: what're the advantages of asciidoctor over asciidoc? (keep in mind I don't know anything about either other than they do documentation and the former is a reimpl of the latter)
2021-04-26T00:45:26 #kisslinux <midfavila> the advantage of asciidoctor is that fvwm3 uses it to build documentation
2021-04-26T00:45:30 #kisslinux <midfavila> and... that's it
2021-04-26T00:45:45 #kisslinux <midfavila> i don't use asciidoctor or asciidoc for anything, personally
2021-04-26T00:46:11 #kisslinux <E5ten> oh I guess I was wrong then, I thought that they were like impls of the same thing (like asciidoctor could be used for stuff asciidoc is used for and vice versa)
2021-04-26T00:46:14 #kisslinux <midfavila> but FVWM is very much a "manual is mandatory reading" program, so... that means I have to package this.
2021-04-26T00:46:31 #kisslinux <midfavila> or at least pull it into the fvwm build dir and run it from there
2021-04-26T00:46:42 #kisslinux <midfavila> which is what I'm going to do, because I'm not learning to use *another fucking build system*
2021-04-26T00:48:06 #kisslinux <E5ten> from what I'm seeing online asciidoctor is a ruby reimpl of asciidoc, so I'm not sure why fvwm would hard require it instead of requiring either
2021-04-26T00:48:19 #kisslinux * midfavila shrugs
2021-04-26T00:48:25 #kisslinux <midfavila> I'm just following the build docs.
2021-04-26T00:49:05 #kisslinux <E5ten> yeah no like it does require it, I'm not saying you're wrong here, I'm more questioning what fvwm themselves are doing
2021-04-26T00:49:11 #kisslinux <dilyn> dolphin is easily best fm. dolphin has basically no dependencies if you already use qt5
2021-04-26T00:49:12 #kisslinux <dilyn> http://ix.io/39W2
2021-04-26T00:49:26 #kisslinux <midfavila> i do find it amusing that a program written in C and extended in Perl that is potentially going to redesign its config syntax to resemble CSS requires Ruby to build docs
2021-04-26T00:49:29 #kisslinux <midfavila> like
2021-04-26T00:49:33 #kisslinux <midfavila> do you have enough fucking languages?
2021-04-26T00:49:37 #kisslinux <dilyn> a sed -i wrapper seems like so much work for something that can't guarantee you can build an arbitrary package
2021-04-26T00:49:40 #kisslinux <midfavila> do you want a pat on the head and warm cocoa?
2021-04-26T00:49:48 #kisslinux <midfavila> can I just have my damn window manager?
2021-04-26T00:49:54 #kisslinux <dilyn> no
2021-04-26T00:49:59 #kisslinux <midfavila> fuck off dilyn >:c
2021-04-26T00:50:02 #kisslinux <dilyn> lol
2021-04-26T00:50:07 #kisslinux <acheam> hi dilyn
2021-04-26T00:50:11 #kisslinux <dilyn> o/
2021-04-26T00:50:12 #kisslinux <acheam> emails are double sending btw
2021-04-26T00:50:20 #kisslinux <midfavila> woo, email
2021-04-26T00:50:23 #kisslinux <dilyn> I saw! seems odd
2021-04-26T00:50:28 #kisslinux <dilyn> wasn't happening during my tests :(
2021-04-26T00:51:17 #kisslinux <E5ten> if you'd prefer using asciidoc (and so avoiding ruby) I think if you wanna just try replacing asciidoctor references in configure.ac (and regenerating the autotools stuff), that'd probably work? I'm not saying that's sufficient for the package itself cuz you don't wanna be regenerating configure script and stuff in it, but just for testing if the tool works at all (in which case maybe you could just symlink it to asciidoctor
2021-04-26T00:51:17 #kisslinux <E5ten> in some subdir of where you're building and add that to PATH)
2021-04-26T00:51:39 #kisslinux <midfavila> well, then I'd have to package asciidoc
2021-04-26T00:51:58 #kisslinux <midfavila> as it stands, the laziest solution is to unpack a release tarball and prepend its bin dir to $PATH
2021-04-26T00:52:20 #kisslinux <E5ten> <midfavila "well, then I'd have to package a"> at least it's ruby :>)
2021-04-26T00:52:25 #kisslinux <E5ten> it's not*
2021-04-26T00:52:25 #kisslinux <dilyn> asciidoc requires... docbook?
2021-04-26T00:52:26 #kisslinux <dilyn> glhf
2021-04-26T00:52:38 #kisslinux <midfavila> THAT'S WHY I-
2021-04-26T00:52:39 #kisslinux <midfavila> oh god
2021-04-26T00:52:47 #kisslinux <midfavila> I'm having PTSD flashbacks from when I first started with kiss
2021-04-26T00:53:07 #kisslinux <aarng> dilyn: wdym with not being able to guarantee that you can build an abritrary package?
2021-04-26T00:53:38 #kisslinux <dilyn> i mean that, for instance, zfs requires sed --in-place
2021-04-26T00:54:20 #kisslinux <dilyn> like, I don't know why we would be so insistent on dropping sed -i given that it's present in potentially so many packages
2021-04-26T00:54:22 #kisslinux <E5ten> I'm sure with a bit of work the arg parsing could be made robust and handle longopts and stuff
2021-04-26T00:54:24 #kisslinux <dilyn> sha I understand
2021-04-26T00:54:36 #kisslinux <E5ten> not saying I think it's a good solution, just noting that I think that aspect could be dealt with
2021-04-26T00:54:37 #kisslinux <dilyn> hm
2021-04-26T00:54:46 #kisslinux <aarng> argh, fucking long options
2021-04-26T00:54:55 #kisslinux <dilyn> I mean the sufficiently clever scripter could probably do it...
2021-04-26T00:54:57 #kisslinux <E5ten> (I think it could be dealt with because I'm pretty confident I could deal with it, although I don't plan on trying tonight)
2021-04-26T00:55:10 #kisslinux <dilyn> lmao
2021-04-26T00:55:22 #kisslinux <dilyn> now people are gonna pester you for updates on your progress
2021-04-26T00:55:23 #kisslinux <E5ten> not to toot my own horn but I would consider myself a sufficiently clever scripter :>)
2021-04-26T00:55:25 #kisslinux <dilyn> what have you done!
2021-04-26T00:55:36 #kisslinux <aarng> lol
2021-04-26T00:55:37 #kisslinux <dilyn> more cleverer than i...
2021-04-26T00:55:42 #kisslinux <aarng> https://termbin.com/r0hbs
2021-04-26T00:55:44 #kisslinux <aarng> here's the concept
2021-04-26T00:56:00 #kisslinux <E5ten> for like a solid year (before I learned C) I spent so much time just doing insane bullshit to do things in shell that nobody should do in shell
2021-04-26T00:56:06 #kisslinux <E5ten> more than a year probably
2021-04-26T00:57:00 #kisslinux <dilyn> admirable or pitiable, YOU decide
2021-04-26T00:57:17 #kisslinux <midfavila> that's a mood
2021-04-26T00:57:21 #kisslinux <midfavila> i need to read more K&R
2021-04-26T00:57:46 #kisslinux <E5ten> not really getting into the finer details, but probably the way to deal with this is rather than doing a while loop over args, you do a for loop (with a bit of fuckery to deal with the problems that come from not having access to the next param in the loop on the current param), and on the first run of the loop you zero out "$@", so that you can rebuild it from the original "$@" in a way that works for what you're wrapping
2021-04-26T00:59:13 #kisslinux <aarng> hard to do anything without getopts because you have to parse whole strings for single letter args
2021-04-26T00:59:17 #kisslinux <E5ten> that "fuckery" would probably entail something like setting a var to indicate the option that was passed in the last iteration (if that option needs an arg), so in the current iteration you know that the param you're dealing with is an arg to that option, rather than anything else
2021-04-26T00:59:23 #kisslinux <E5ten> that's easy
2021-04-26T01:00:08 #kisslinux <E5ten> you deal with all the longopt stuff first (like in your case), and then you have a case like -[!-]*), and then you strip the leading dash and loop through the characters until you hit the end, or an option that takes an arg, in which case whatever is left (or next param if nothing) is your optarg
2021-04-26T01:00:53 #kisslinux <E5ten> like the shortopts aspect is hard to do well without getopts, but possible, but the longopts aspect is impossible to do right if you're using getopts
2021-04-26T01:01:02 #kisslinux <E5ten> so it's not really an option if the wrapper is to support longopts
2021-04-26T01:01:10 #kisslinux <aarng> I guess I could roll my own option parsing, that's true
2021-04-26T01:01:17 #kisslinux <E5ten> and also not using getopts enables you to deal with the -i optional arg thing
2021-04-26T01:01:53 #kisslinux <E5ten> if you don't feel like going through that hassle I could probably give it a shot tomorrow (I'd likely need you to mention me so I remember though lol)
2021-04-26T01:01:56 #kisslinux <aarng> this would all be so easy with arrays
2021-04-26T01:02:07 #kisslinux * midfavila cackles in ksh
2021-04-26T01:02:14 #kisslinux <dilyn> easier to just use -i...
2021-04-26T01:02:17 #kisslinux <dilyn> :p
2021-04-26T01:02:26 #kisslinux <midfavila> muh poosicks
2021-04-26T01:02:44 #kisslinux <E5ten> dilyn: if I did this it wouldn't even be because I'd expect it to actually be used for replacing sed -i, more just to see if I can
2021-04-26T01:02:45 #kisslinux <aarng> I don't really care afterall tbh
2021-04-26T01:03:01 #kisslinux <aarng> would be nice to be able to use sbase though
2021-04-26T01:03:07 #kisslinux <dilyn> for sure
2021-04-26T01:03:13 #kisslinux <midfavila> sbase is /comfy/
2021-04-26T01:03:31 #kisslinux <dilyn> most of the point of this is just knowing that you CAN
2021-04-26T01:03:32 #kisslinux <aarng> yeah, same here, I don't mind if it's not getting used
2021-04-26T01:03:34 #kisslinux <dilyn> no other real reason
2021-04-26T01:03:46 #kisslinux <aarng> this is just out of boredom
2021-04-26T01:05:08 #kisslinux <E5ten> the annoying part is mostly the having to reconstruct the opts part, because you have to both take "$@" but also replace it
2021-04-26T01:05:59 #kisslinux <E5ten> like if this was just a script that took all the sed params and then like did the stuff sed does itself, rather than wrapping it, the arg parsing would be a non-issue, but having to reconstruct a valid but more portable array of args is why it becomes irritating (because that requires you to do that for loop fuckery)
2021-04-26T01:06:22 #kisslinux <aarng> exactly
2021-04-26T01:08:06 #kisslinux <E5ten> oh actually, I'm not writing this now so it might be different from the mental image I have of how this could be done, but I think a slightly less annoying for loop fuckery thing can be used, where rather than zeroing "$@" on the first iteration, do like "for arg do", and then shift at the beginning of each iteration, and add your version of the new params at the end of "$@"
2021-04-26T01:08:51 #kisslinux <E5ten> so by the time the loop finishes (it's only looping through the original "$@", not the params you add at the end cuz it already got expanded) you've shifted the correct amount of times to drop all of the original "$@", but you still get access to correct $2 and stuff
2021-04-26T01:10:22 #kisslinux <E5ten> that way you don't have to set vars for options that have args to collect them on the next iteration, although I guess you'd still have to do something to skip that next iteration
2021-04-26T01:10:53 #kisslinux <E5ten> but a single var to indicate "skip next iteration" is still better than a different var for each of the options that has an arg
2021-04-26T01:13:00 #kisslinux <aarng> are you speaking of when you would roll your own option parsing?
2021-04-26T01:14:13 #kisslinux <E5ten> for this specific thing (or I guess generally if you're wrapping a tool and need to make a new "$@" from the old one, and there are options with args) yeah
2021-04-26T01:15:06 #kisslinux <E5ten> typically this level of fuckery for rolling your own isn't needed, because most tools (at least that I've wrapped in shell) don't have options with args where anything but the last one passed matters
2021-04-26T01:16:00 #kisslinux <E5ten> like the fact that you can have multiple -e or -f args is what necessitates this, if you could only have 1 you could just have a while loop, and have like earg=$2 or whatever when -e pops up (or earg=${1#-e} if it's passed with the param)
2021-04-26T01:16:24 #kisslinux <aarng> yeah, sed is particularly hard unfortunately
2021-04-26T01:16:34 #kisslinux <E5ten> and then make the new "$@" after you've already done the parsing, because if $earg had anything you'd just add like set -- "$@" -e "$earg"
2021-04-26T01:16:46 #kisslinux <E5ten> but yeah sed in particular makes more extreme fuckery necessary
2021-04-26T01:16:57 #kisslinux <aarng> yep
2021-04-26T01:17:24 #kisslinux <aarng> well, I can remind you tomorrow again, interested in what you would come up with
2021-04-26T01:18:15 #kisslinux <E5ten> sounds good, I'll give it a shot sometime after my exam tomorrow morning lol
2021-04-26T01:18:31 #kisslinux <E5ten> (open book, so open internet cuz covid, so I'm gonna do well)
2021-04-26T01:18:33 #kisslinux <aarng> no rush ^^
2021-04-26T01:19:14 #kisslinux <aarng> off to bed for now, 3am over here
2021-04-26T01:19:18 #kisslinux <aarng> o/
2021-04-26T01:19:31 #kisslinux <dilyn> o/
2021-04-26T01:21:21 #kisslinux <E5ten> Lol I should write something in the spirit of pure-{ba,}sh-bible called like 'the art of doing "some disgusting bullshit" in shell'
2021-04-26T01:22:06 #kisslinux <dilyn> The pure bullSHit bible
2021-04-26T01:22:26 #kisslinux <E5ten> ooo that's a good one too
2021-04-26T01:23:51 #kisslinux <E5ten> If I wanted to keep it really simple "shell abuse"
2021-04-26T01:24:20 #kisslinux <dilyn> The Anarchist's shbook
2021-04-26T01:24:43 #kisslinux <E5ten> "The Marxist-Leninist's shbook" :>)
2021-04-26T01:25:28 #kisslinux <dilyn> perf
2021-04-26T01:25:30 #kisslinux <dilyn> I'd read it
2021-04-26T01:25:49 #kisslinux <E5ten> Chapters alternate between talking about politics and explaining complicated shell bullshit
2021-04-26T01:28:52 #kisslinux <E5ten> I think part of the problem with documenting some of the weird shell stuff I do vs Dylan's Bibles is that the stuff in those are things you can put into functions, whereas a lot of mine relies on $@ so you can't put it in a function because you can't return a function's $@ to the caller without downsides (like if you print each element by line then newlines will break it, etc.)
2021-04-26T01:29:16 #kisslinux <E5ten> So it's all just stuff you actually have to write into the script rather than having a function you can add and then just call
2021-04-26T01:29:25 #kisslinux <dilyn> dylan assumes competency and you assume radical heresy
2021-04-26T01:29:38 #kisslinux <dilyn> one of these is more fun than the other
2021-04-26T01:31:30 #kisslinux <E5ten> Clean functions where you only need to understand what they do and not how they do it to copy and use them? This is a game for fools, simpletons. Insane code that you have to understand because you need to manually adapt it to fit your script? Yeah that's more like it
2021-04-26T01:32:33 #kisslinux <dilyn> the Chad Bible
2021-04-26T01:33:54 #kisslinux <E5ten> The Bible for scripters who respond to the concept of readability by laughing
2021-04-26T01:37:16 #kisslinux <E5ten> I've got an IRL friend who just started learning to program in python (and he uses windows), and it's so hard to explain programming concepts to him because I'm so used to taking for granted a certain base level of knowledge that's present in places like here lol
2021-04-26T01:43:43 #kisslinux <dilyn> I relate too much to this
2021-04-26T01:44:01 #kisslinux <dilyn> I got to the point in teaching that I just... was physically unable to answer certain questions without thinking *very* hard
2021-04-26T01:44:06 #kisslinux <dilyn> and it made me look like an idiot
2021-04-26T02:02:36 #kisslinux <E5ten> yeah lol
2021-04-26T02:03:55 #kisslinux <E5ten> it's like, you understand the answer to the question but actually putting into words is a whole other thing, especially when you have to double check that they know what you mean each time you use a non-plain-language term or phrase
2021-04-26T02:42:17 #kisslinux <dilyn> pkgconf maintainers are slackers
2021-04-26T02:42:17 #kisslinux <dilyn> https://lists.sr.ht/~kaniini/pkgconf/%3C2413164.2QjzMQAWZ8%40g550jk%3E
2021-04-26T02:42:26 #kisslinux <dilyn> this is the second time this has happened. just use caddy lads frfr
2021-04-26T02:42:37 #kisslinux <dilyn> cronjob. a calendar. ANYTHING
2021-04-26T02:51:00 #kisslinux <acheam> oct 9?!
2021-04-26T02:51:01 #kisslinux <acheam> oct 9!
2021-04-26T02:51:38 #kisslinux <acheam> literally a single line in yer crontab
2021-04-26T03:01:01 #kisslinux <dilyn> literally just pip install certbot s m h
2021-04-26T03:01:24 #kisslinux <dilyn> and then 0 0 1 1 * /usr/bin/python -c 'import random; import time; time.sleep(random.random() * 3600)' &7 certbot renew -q
2021-04-26T03:09:04 #kisslinux <acheam> thats way overcomplicated
2021-04-26T03:09:36 #kisslinux <acheam> you can just run certbot renew
2021-04-26T03:15:26 #kisslinux <dilyn> precisely
2021-04-26T03:15:31 #kisslinux <dilyn> and yet here they are
2021-04-26T03:15:32 #kisslinux <dilyn> not
2021-04-26T03:16:01 #kisslinux <acheam> its okay you can just sit on your high horse knowing you are the superior sysadmin
2021-04-26T03:16:16 #kisslinux <acheam> its quite comfy up here, you should join me
2021-04-26T03:18:02 #kisslinux <dilyn> :'(
2021-04-26T03:19:22 #kisslinux <midfavila> I swear
2021-04-26T03:19:24 #kisslinux <midfavila> I'm gonna fucking scream
2021-04-26T03:19:35 #kisslinux <midfavila> FVWM3 *refuses* to do what I tell it
2021-04-26T03:19:52 #kisslinux <midfavila> despite being provided perfectly valid commands that work in prior versions
2021-04-26T03:20:38 #kisslinux <acheam> you can always join us in spectrwm land where the default config is super comfy
2021-04-26T03:20:44 #kisslinux <midfavila> No.
2021-04-26T03:20:47 #kisslinux <midfavila> Go away, shill.
2021-04-26T03:22:23 #kisslinux <acheam> I literally have a 7 line config not including my keybingins
2021-04-26T03:22:58 #kisslinux <acheam> nvm just made it 6
2021-04-26T03:27:02 #kisslinux <midfavila> i'm just gonna bitch about my problem in #fvwm
2021-04-26T03:27:10 #kisslinux <midfavila> because I've been trying for hours now
2021-04-26T03:54:24 #kisslinux <acheam> seems like a lot of work when you could just use a window manager designed in the current century
2021-04-26T03:54:37 #kisslinux <acheam> literally
2021-04-26T03:54:41 #kisslinux <midfavila> okay, sure
2021-04-26T03:54:53 #kisslinux <midfavila> but I like having status bars and widgets and bits and bobs and whatnot
2021-04-26T03:55:10 #kisslinux <midfavila> and FVWM is the only window manager that can provide that, in addition to its other unique features.
2021-04-26T03:55:11 #kisslinux <acheam> I shall grant you that, bits and bobs are rather nice
2021-04-26T03:55:39 #kisslinux <acheam> although admittedly I don't have any in my setup
2021-04-26T03:55:41 #kisslinux <midfavila> the *only thing* that's bugging me about it right now,
2021-04-26T03:55:57 #kisslinux <midfavila> is that my taskbar module is being forcibly set to the width of a single screen
2021-04-26T03:56:03 #kisslinux <acheam> can't be having that
2021-04-26T03:56:08 #kisslinux <midfavila> when it *should* be being set to the width of my X display
2021-04-26T03:56:21 #kisslinux <midfavila> it's extremely disconcerting
2021-04-26T03:57:06 #kisslinux <midfavila> well, regardless, i've been up an hour late tonight...
2021-04-26T03:57:08 #kisslinux <midfavila> gotta log off
2021-04-26T03:57:22 #kisslinux <acheam> gnighy
2021-04-26T04:13:01 #kisslinux <konimex> dilyn: you may want to fix the /tmp and /var/tmp permission in the kiss rootfs
2021-04-26T04:13:12 #kisslinux <konimex> since it's 0755 and not 1777 right now
2021-04-26T04:21:23 #kisslinux <ocean_man> how would i go about installing toybox, i cant findd it in any community repo's. I am at the step in the install where I need to "kiss b baseinit".
2021-04-26T04:22:11 #kisslinux <acheam> its in dilyn's kiss-me repo: https://github.com/dilyn-corner/KISS-me/tree/master/core
2021-04-26T04:22:55 #kisslinux <ocean_man> aight ty
2021-04-26T04:23:36 #kisslinux <acheam> be prepared to supplement it though as toybox doesnt have everything
2021-04-26T04:23:44 #kisslinux <acheam> dilyn should have most things you need in that repo though
2021-04-26T04:24:03 #kisslinux <testuser_[m]> Hi
2021-04-26T04:24:07 #kisslinux <acheam> hi testuser_[m]
2021-04-26T04:24:45 #kisslinux <dilyn> that particular toybox doesn't include tar
2021-04-26T04:24:57 #kisslinux <dilyn> you'll need awk, sh, and tar
2021-04-26T04:25:14 #kisslinux <ocean_man> dilyn oof, that is a sort of annoying
2021-04-26T04:25:39 #kisslinux <ocean_man> i might j go with rustybox
2021-04-26T04:25:43 #kisslinux <dilyn> you can add tar to the config if you download the source, do make menuconfig, and find tar and enable it
2021-04-26T04:25:48 #kisslinux <dilyn> then swap the configs
2021-04-26T04:25:52 #kisslinux <dilyn> you could also do that
2021-04-26T04:26:15 #kisslinux <ocean_man> ye i tried to download the source, it gave me a weird error. I will have to look more into it.
2021-04-26T04:26:18 #kisslinux <acheam> huh, rustybox is cool, never seen it before
2021-04-26T04:26:43 #kisslinux <acheam> I wonder if thers any relation between uutils and rustybox?
2021-04-26T04:26:55 #kisslinux <dilyn> nah they're very separate
2021-04-26T04:27:12 #kisslinux <dilyn> uutils is a whole reimplementation, rustybox is just busybox -> rust
2021-04-26T04:27:22 #kisslinux <acheam> ah okay
2021-04-26T04:27:42 #kisslinux <dilyn> yeah. rustybox is /more complete/ as a result
2021-04-26T04:28:21 #kisslinux <dilyn> i'll fix those perms, smh
2021-04-26T04:28:48 #kisslinux <acheam> seems interesting
2021-04-26T04:28:53 #kisslinux <acheam> i'm happy with busybox though :)
2021-04-26T04:29:05 #kisslinux <dilyn> I've stopped moving things around so the archive should be "stable" smh. don't move things between filesystems unless you're more precise with cp/rsync/install gah
2021-04-26T04:29:18 #kisslinux <dilyn> yeah i'm not sure how much better rustybox really is than busybox
2021-04-26T04:29:31 #kisslinux <dilyn> the point of busybox is 1MB size, I assume rustybox would be much larger...
2021-04-26T04:30:15 #kisslinux <acheam> nope they say its just under a megabyte
2021-04-26T04:30:53 #kisslinux <dilyn> nice
2021-04-26T04:31:19 #kisslinux <acheam> but it just feels like a classic case of "rewrite it in rust" "why?" "its rust! obvs its better shut up"
2021-04-26T04:31:42 #kisslinux <konimex> I have to give them some credit though, not much dependencies in rustybox compared to uutils
2021-04-26T04:32:12 #kisslinux <acheam> yes they've done a good job it seems of using pretty pure rust
2021-04-26T04:32:24 #kisslinux <acheam> I hate when I install a rust program, and it installs 500 bajillion crates
2021-04-26T04:32:40 #kisslinux <testuser_[m]> Aren't they just built time
2021-04-26T04:32:43 #kisslinux <testuser_[m]> build
2021-04-26T04:33:10 #kisslinux <konimex> build-time dependencies are still dependencies, still wasted disk space (even if it's cheap)
2021-04-26T04:33:24 #kisslinux <dilyn> uutils is damn near 200 crates
2021-04-26T04:33:27 #kisslinux <acheam> for me its just because i'm impatient more than anything
2021-04-26T04:33:34 #kisslinux <acheam> I can spare the disk space and the bandwidth
2021-04-26T04:33:44 #kisslinux <acheam> although I do like keeping my system on as little disk space as possible
2021-04-26T04:33:50 #kisslinux <acheam> (like i'm sure many people here do)
2021-04-26T04:34:00 #kisslinux <testuser_[m]> btw why was that cargolock-urlgen script removed from KISS ?
2021-04-26T04:34:09 #kisslinux <dilyn> it didn't work very well
2021-04-26T04:34:14 #kisslinux <dilyn> alegedly, I never used it
2021-04-26T04:34:54 #kisslinux <acheam> hmm I wonder if busybox would be open to adding a finger command and daemon
2021-04-26T04:35:00 #kisslinux <acheam> could be a fun project to implement
2021-04-26T10:27:54 #kisslinux <user30> Greetings. Quick question. Wiki page for Wayland is viable?I.e. will be there any problems? Pitfalls?
2021-04-26T10:36:36 #kisslinux <testuser_[m]> What kind of problems ?
2021-04-26T10:52:07 #kisslinux <user30> No idea. I was never installed/using Wayland. That is why Im asking. It is safe use the instruction?
2021-04-26T10:52:24 #kisslinux <tink> in my experience, pitfalls are always there when it comes to computers, so what you mostly do is dealing with them
2021-04-26T10:53:59 #kisslinux <testuser_[m]> It's nor like your computer is gonna explode, so yeah
2021-04-26T10:54:03 #kisslinux <testuser_[m]> not*
2021-04-26T10:54:08 #kisslinux <tink> i think what you should be asking is whether you can continue what you are doing on wayland
2021-04-26T10:58:31 #kisslinux <user30> Thanks
2021-04-26T14:37:55 #kisslinux <testuser[m]_> dilyn: python 3.10.0b1 seems to build fine here, along with the ssl module
2021-04-26T14:42:54 #kisslinux <konimex> I thought their last release is a7 (on 21 days ago) which is why I built from master
2021-04-26T14:44:17 #kisslinux <spryc> the kiss-find script has stopped working
2021-04-26T14:44:28 #kisslinux <testuser[m]_> I think you didn't get the libressl revdep cuz KISS's dep detector is broken in latest rel, fixed in git
2021-04-26T14:45:41 #kisslinux <testuser[m]_> Did github api change ?
2021-04-26T14:46:21 #kisslinux <testuser[m]_> Can you ` import ssl `?
2021-04-26T14:46:41 #kisslinux <konimex> anyways looks like b1 doesn't include https://github.com/python/cpython/pull/25453 and https://github.com/python/cpython/pull/25470 given its commit is after 12 April
2021-04-26T14:47:19 #kisslinux <testuser[m]_> Ah
2021-04-26T14:52:18 #kisslinux <konimex> testuser: from my compilation, nope, I can't import ssl
2021-04-26T14:52:28 #kisslinux <spryc> kiss-find is broken now because the website it looks for the DB is a 404
2021-04-26T14:52:30 #kisslinux <spryc> https://files.ecmelberk.com
2021-04-26T14:53:17 #kisslinux <testuser[m]_> You should be able to create the db yourself too right ?
2021-04-26T14:53:26 #kisslinux <testuser[m]_> Yeah konimex latest git fails to build ssl and hashliv
2021-04-26T14:54:10 #kisslinux <testuser[m]_> hashlib
2021-04-26T14:57:51 #kisslinux <testuser[m]_> Those modules are pretty important, lot of projects need it like ytdl
2021-04-26T15:01:20 #kisslinux <konimex> well, it ultimately depends on dilyn
2021-04-26T15:01:27 #kisslinux <konimex> you just need to lobby him, perhaps
2021-04-26T15:04:26 #kisslinux <ominous_anonymou> spryc which kiss-find are you using?
2021-04-26T15:09:12 #kisslinux <testuser[m]_> There will probably be a patch by openbsd, the PR you sent above seems pretty small too on the code side. But future changes they make on top of this might be challenging to fix
2021-04-26T15:17:17 #kisslinux <testuser[m]_> Ah nvm this is only part of the transition
2021-04-26T15:21:29 #kisslinux <thermatix> o/
2021-04-26T15:22:21 #kisslinux <testuser[m]_> Hi
2021-04-26T15:22:49 #kisslinux <zenomat> hey
2021-04-26T15:23:44 #kisslinux <testuser[m]_> https://devguide.python.org/#status-of-python-branches
2021-04-26T15:23:59 #kisslinux <thermatix> do you need firmware for synaptics touchpads to work?
2021-04-26T15:34:13 #kisslinux <tink> thermatix are you using your arch kernel
2021-04-26T15:34:34 #kisslinux <thermatix> gahh why won't it recognise my toucpad? How is it still recognising a ps/2 mouse when I removed ps/2 mouse support from the kernel?
2021-04-26T15:34:43 #kisslinux <tink> if you went through the options one by one, you might've forgot to include dreamware i2c stuff, which was the main issue for my touchpad
2021-04-26T15:35:09 #kisslinux <dilyn> some touchpads require a lot of things, others require basically nothing
2021-04-26T15:35:10 #kisslinux <thermatix> tinkm, I'm no longer on a vm but a laptop and I no longer need arch to boostrap
2021-04-26T15:35:11 #kisslinux <tink> it showed as generic ps/2 for me as well iirc
2021-04-26T15:35:27 #kisslinux <thermatix> but how ps/2 when I Removed it from the kernel?
2021-04-26T15:36:27 #kisslinux <dilyn> presumably that's just some generic name
2021-04-26T15:36:31 #kisslinux <tink> probably it's i2c, not ps/2
2021-04-26T15:36:49 #kisslinux <dilyn> for instance, my dmesg says `mousedev: PS/2 mouse device common for all mice` even tho I have CONFIG_MOUSE_PS2 is not set
2021-04-26T15:37:15 #kisslinux <thermatix> yeah that
2021-04-26T15:37:30 #kisslinux <thermatix> I have synaptics usb and i2c enabled
2021-04-26T15:37:56 #kisslinux <thermatix> have libinput installed and the xwrapper
2021-04-26T15:38:17 #kisslinux <tink> i've got kernel config screenshots from someone who also faced touchpad issues, i'll share them with you
2021-04-26T15:38:23 #kisslinux <thermatix> but not the synaptics input installed
2021-04-26T15:38:33 #kisslinux <thermatix> since I was told they can conflict
2021-04-26T15:38:41 #kisslinux <tink> you might want to check whether you have all of the stuff in the screenshots enabled
2021-04-26T15:38:48 #kisslinux <thermatix> thanks
2021-04-26T15:38:59 #kisslinux <testuser_[m]> dilyn: pango seems to be cloning some random crap, even though it's supposed to be disabled by `-Dgtk_doc=false`
2021-04-26T15:39:08 #kisslinux <tink> yeah, only one of them is enough and it probably has to do with your kernel
2021-04-26T15:39:33 #kisslinux <tink> what is the best way to share multiple images? i only know imgur that handles albums
2021-04-26T15:40:30 #kisslinux <thermatix> I tend to use https://pasteboard.co/
2021-04-26T15:41:01 #kisslinux <tink> pasteboard doesn't work well for me
2021-04-26T15:41:50 #kisslinux <thermatix> uh
2021-04-26T15:42:23 #kisslinux <thermatix> I only really know pasteboard
2021-04-26T15:43:23 #kisslinux <testuser_[m]> Sorry to be annoying about meson, but i have another proposal for subprojects
2021-04-26T15:43:30 #kisslinux <dilyn> meson is such bullshit smh
2021-04-26T15:43:35 #kisslinux <testuser_[m]> instead of a wrapper, there can be a default kiss hook for pre-build that calls `rm -rf subprojects` if package has a dep on meson, like post-build
2021-04-26T15:43:58 #kisslinux <dilyn> thermatix: do you also have xf86-input-libinput installed?
2021-04-26T15:44:07 #kisslinux <thermatix> yes
2021-04-26T15:44:19 #kisslinux <thermatix> wait
2021-04-26T15:44:40 #kisslinux <thermatix> yes I do
2021-04-26T15:44:56 #kisslinux <thermatix> in /var/db/kiss
2021-04-26T15:46:39 #kisslinux <tink> https://imgur.com/a/8JoGq4q
2021-04-26T15:47:09 #kisslinux <tink> It has some extra stuff in it, look for the options that seem relevant
2021-04-26T15:48:01 #kisslinux <thermatix> thx!
2021-04-26T15:49:39 #kisslinux <dilyn> testuser_: iirc deleting the subprojects/ directory can cause some packages to fail to build
2021-04-26T15:51:27 #kisslinux <testuser_[m]> won't they fail only if they wanted to clone subprojects in the first place ?
2021-04-26T15:51:47 #kisslinux <testuser_[m]> tested it with pango and it just ignores the dep it was trying to clone before
2021-04-26T15:52:00 #kisslinux <dilyn> yeah pango will ignore it, but I believe I ran into this once before
2021-04-26T15:52:04 #kisslinux <dilyn> I don't remember the specifics
2021-04-26T15:58:42 #kisslinux <testuser_[m]> Hmm nvm then
2021-04-26T15:59:22 #kisslinux <dilyn> i'm testing --wrap-mode=nodownload in the main repo to see if anything shatters
2021-04-26T15:59:47 #kisslinux <testuser_[m]> Cool
2021-04-26T15:59:51 #kisslinux <testuser_[m]> What stops libressl from making a clean room implementation of new openssl APIs ?
2021-04-26T16:00:30 #kisslinux <dilyn> their own stubbornness I assume
2021-04-26T16:00:51 #kisslinux <dilyn> I don't think their goal was ever 100% compatibility? in fact, explicitly not that?
2021-04-26T16:03:00 #kisslinux <testuser_[m]> https://www.libressl.org/goals.html looks like they don't explicitly state not aiming to be compatible
2021-04-26T16:03:50 #kisslinux <dilyn> then they're... probably hopefully maybe working on this
2021-04-26T16:03:57 #kisslinux <dilyn> we're due for a new nondev release soon(tm)
2021-04-26T16:04:34 #kisslinux <thermatix> I'm wondering I should ditch the zen kernel for the regular one as kernel 5.12 has lenovo hardware profiles built in
2021-04-26T16:05:49 #kisslinux <dilyn> also PGO :o
2021-04-26T16:05:59 #kisslinux <thermatix> what's PGO?
2021-04-26T16:06:07 #kisslinux <dilyn> profile guided optimization
2021-04-26T16:06:11 #kisslinux <dilyn> or was it LTO...
2021-04-26T16:06:37 #kisslinux <dilyn> google devs have been submitting patches for over two years to get PGO/LTO with clang into the kernel, and this time it's actually hit mainline
2021-04-26T16:06:49 #kisslinux <testuser_[m]> 5.12 has lto, pgo is in mailing list still
2021-04-26T16:07:36 #kisslinux <testuser_[m]> Btw gcc built with PGO builds gcc 1 min faster than regular gcc
2021-04-26T16:08:05 #kisslinux <dilyn> fucking value
2021-04-26T16:09:00 #kisslinux <thermatix> neat?
2021-04-26T16:11:29 #kisslinux <testuser_[m]> I tried clang PGO too but it doesn't seem to make any diff in clang building clang, even though I only profiled it for building clang. Probably missed something
2021-04-26T16:11:30 #kisslinux <thermatix> thanks tink but no dice :(
2021-04-26T16:11:32 #kisslinux <testuser_[m]> Followed https://www.llvm.org/docs/HowToBuildWithPGO.html#building-clang-with-pgo
2021-04-26T16:12:24 #kisslinux <dilyn> i can't build clang using both, sadly...
2021-04-26T16:15:03 #kisslinux <dilyn> `error: unknown type name '__always_inline'` >=|
2021-04-26T16:16:39 #kisslinux <dilyn> well everything in the main repository builds with --wrap-mode=nodownload, so that's neato
2021-04-26T16:21:41 #kisslinux <tink> :/
2021-04-26T16:28:33 #kisslinux <dilyn> afaik isn't it the case that clang doesn't respect __always_inline and it instead has be wrapped in __attribute() ?
2021-04-26T16:28:37 #kisslinux <dilyn> hmmhmhmhmhm
2021-04-26T16:38:08 #kisslinux <thermatix> thetouchpad doesn't show up in `/proc/bus/input/devices` or lsusb
2021-04-26T16:44:33 #kisslinux <thermatix> question, in the kernel, should I enable thinkpad platform specific stuff even though I have an ideapad?
2021-04-26T16:47:41 #kisslinux <thermatix> I'll jsut leave them on
2021-04-26T17:11:13 #kisslinux <thermatix> I think I'm a bit closer to the problem
2021-04-26T17:11:23 #kisslinux <thermatix> I get "linux i2c_designware AMDI0010:00: controller timed out" on boot
2021-04-26T17:11:35 #kisslinux <thermatix> and this is related to touchpads not being recognised
2021-04-26T17:12:08 #kisslinux <tink> it was a few months ago but i remember enabling every kernel option related to mouse, touchpad, ps/2, i2c etc and i got my touchpad to work. i was just about to begin trimming it down to see what is actually needed and what isn't but my laptop broke down on me
2021-04-26T17:15:55 #kisslinux <thermatix> is fwudp available on kiss?
2021-04-26T17:20:08 #kisslinux <dilyn> it requires dbus
2021-04-26T17:20:12 #kisslinux <dilyn> so nah
2021-04-26T17:21:06 #kisslinux <dilyn> probably not the hardest thing to get working tho, I imagine?
2021-04-26T17:23:44 #kisslinux <testuser_[m]> It has a ton of deps https://github.com/archlinux/svntogit-community/blob/packages/fwupd/trunk/PKGBUILD
2021-04-26T17:23:51 #kisslinux <thermatix> I think... I think the touchpad isn't synaptics but elan?
2021-04-26T17:23:51 #kisslinux <testuser_[m]> Dunno how many of them can be disabled
2021-04-26T17:24:46 #kisslinux <dilyn> they're probably not too bad tho
2021-04-26T17:25:35 #kisslinux <thermatix> how else can I update the bios?
2021-04-26T17:31:02 #kisslinux <dilyn> on a laptop?
2021-04-26T17:31:23 #kisslinux <dilyn> I've never come across a manufacturer who recommends updating BIOS
2021-04-26T17:31:46 #kisslinux <thermatix> isn't that what fwudp does?
2021-04-26T17:32:00 #kisslinux <dilyn> fwupd updates firmware and stuff in general but I'm asking if you're on a laptop
2021-04-26T17:32:08 #kisslinux <thermatix> plus I got a bios update when I ran the laptop for the first time on windows
2021-04-26T17:32:12 #kisslinux <thermatix> or maybe it was a firmware?
2021-04-26T17:32:13 #kisslinux <dilyn> because then, yes probably. assuming they even distribute the updates via fwupd
2021-04-26T17:55:31 #kisslinux <thermatix> I'm done for the night with this
2021-04-26T17:56:32 #kisslinux <thermatix> bb
2021-04-26T17:57:47 #kisslinux <yabobay> so i'm trynna install kiss into a virtualbox VM to see if i like it at all, and kiss-chroot says it "failed to run command "/usr/bin/env": Exec format error". i'm on an archlinux32 live environment, and earlier i tried slacko puppy linux with the same error.
2021-04-26T17:59:21 #kisslinux <ominous_anonymou> is your VM 64-bit?
2021-04-26T17:59:36 #kisslinux <yabobay> oh wait is kiss only for 64-bit?
2021-04-26T17:59:45 #kisslinux <yabobay> but it's source-based. why does it even
2021-04-26T18:00:43 #kisslinux <ominous_anonymou> kiss targets x86_64 explicitly, although several users have ported it to other architectures
2021-04-26T18:01:11 #kisslinux <yabobay> this would've been nice to see anywhere on the website
2021-04-26T18:01:32 #kisslinux <yabobay> uhhh, do you know where are one of those ports so i can use it?
2021-04-26T18:02:35 #kisslinux <yabobay> (my VM is IA-32)
2021-04-26T18:03:01 #kisslinux <ominous_anonymou> you can search the irc logs for some, jedavies has done 32-bit, PPC, and aarch64 ports for example
2021-04-26T18:03:20 #kisslinux <ominous_anonymou> https://github.com/jedavies-dev
2021-04-26T18:04:04 #kisslinux <ominous_anonymou> whoops his 32-bit was arm, another 32-bit was https://github.com/arvl130/kiss32-repo
2021-04-26T18:04:52 #kisslinux <dilyn> ah. toybox mdev is segfaulting. that's why my perms are never right
2021-04-26T18:05:00 #kisslinux <dilyn> traps: mdev[27114] general protection fault ip:26efec sp:7ffe5c563910 error:0 in toybox[25b000+a3000]
2021-04-26T18:05:05 #kisslinux <yabobay> ominous_anonymou: and everything else about the install is the same, right?
2021-04-26T18:05:24 #kisslinux <E5ten> dilyn: from the last time I tried it, toybox mdev is not usable yet lol
2021-04-26T18:05:37 #kisslinux <E5ten> I use mdevd
2021-04-26T18:05:52 #kisslinux <ominous_anonymou> essentially, yes. i think jedavies gives recommended build flags to use, but i don't recall whether the arvl130 repo does or not
2021-04-26T18:06:09 #kisslinux <yabobay> it doesn't say anything like that in the readme
2021-04-26T18:06:24 #kisslinux <yabobay> anyway, i'm logged into freenode from within the VM, so i'm gonna have to go now to try it lol
2021-04-26T18:06:46 #kisslinux <yabobay> you bet i'll come back if i have trouble tho
2021-04-26T18:07:08 #kisslinux <dilyn> yeah, it seems mighty faulty xD mdevd it be
2021-04-26T18:07:49 #kisslinux <dilyn> is the fact that KISS targets x86_64 bit exclusively not on the website?
2021-04-26T18:07:55 #kisslinux <dilyn> It was at at least one point
2021-04-26T18:08:54 #kisslinux <ominous_anonymou> i could've sworn it was too
2021-04-26T18:08:59 #kisslinux <ominous_anonymou> i can't find it though
2021-04-26T18:10:56 #kisslinux <dilyn> it used to be on the front page. must've gotten chopped during one of the reshuffles dylan did
2021-04-26T18:12:41 #kisslinux <dilyn> it did here https://github.com/kiss-community/website/blob/6bd070a59115a9fb0ea627a6825be2fca16abd83/site/index.txt
2021-04-26T18:14:10 #kisslinux <ominous_anonymou> is that something important enough to re-add?
2021-04-26T18:15:52 #kisslinux <midfavila> i have done nothing but read about sed for five hours
2021-04-26T18:16:03 #kisslinux <midfavila> such a cursed tool
2021-04-26T18:17:23 #kisslinux <ominous_anonymou> s/cur/bles/
2021-04-26T18:17:25 #kisslinux <movzbl> <ominous_anonymou> is that something important enough to re-add?
2021-04-26T18:17:32 #kisslinux <ominous_anonymou> whoops
2021-04-26T18:17:40 #kisslinux <midfavila> regex is cursed
2021-04-26T18:17:43 #kisslinux <midfavila> you can't convince me otherwise
2021-04-26T18:18:41 #kisslinux <dilyn> it was supplanted here https://github.com/kiss-community/website/commit/90d86b8abdb4e4a460991e0f8f35f0126b97f6ed#diff-d35fa41d50c27d2952c3b2b4965a71522b918baa0a2de207ee4f47c6e01cf84e
2021-04-26T18:18:42 #kisslinux <dilyn> lol
2021-04-26T18:18:45 #kisslinux <dilyn> mid why
2021-04-26T18:18:59 #kisslinux <midfavila> '2s/.*inet addr:([0-9]*.[0-9]*.[0-9]*.[0-9]*) .*/1/p'
2021-04-26T18:19:09 #kisslinux <midfavila> this is one reason
2021-04-26T18:19:46 #kisslinux <midfavila> i needed to extract an IP address from ifconfig's output in a single command
2021-04-26T18:19:58 #kisslinux <midfavila> and that lead down the road of "let's do everything with sed!"
2021-04-26T18:20:21 #kisslinux <midfavila> it's not *hard* or anything, just... weird
2021-04-26T18:22:36 #kisslinux <ominous_anonymou> https://blog.dave.tf/post/ip-addr-parsing/
2021-04-26T18:24:00 #kisslinux <midfavila> this is not something I needed to see
2021-04-26T18:24:09 #kisslinux <midfavila> >octal IPv4
2021-04-26T18:26:00 #kisslinux <midfavila> interesting that 4.2BSD has had such an influence on how IP addresses are handled, though
2021-04-26T18:29:38 #kisslinux <ominous_anonymou> yeah it's like people went "damn, guess we gotta comply" rather than "what the hell are y'all smoking?!"
2021-04-26T18:30:51 #kisslinux <ominous_anonymou> there was a similar post somewhere regarding parsing dates and time and dealing with leap years, leap seconds, daylight savings time, time zones, and like ten other things
2021-04-26T18:31:23 #kisslinux <midfavila> don't even talk to me about the issues with timekeeping standards
2021-04-26T18:33:19 #kisslinux <ominous_anonymou> "2000 is really far away, surely there will be a different system by then!"
2021-04-26T18:33:34 #kisslinux <ominous_anonymou> "none of our code will still be in use!"
2021-04-26T18:34:17 #kisslinux <ominous_anonymou> "2038 is the next one? surely there will be a different system by then!"
2021-04-26T18:34:57 #kisslinux <midfavila> meanwhile, in the far-off future of 20193...
2021-04-26T18:35:09 #kisslinux <midfavila> someone, somewhere, is still running an ancient version of RHEL
2021-04-26T18:35:17 #kisslinux <midfavila> with fucking clock issues
2021-04-26T18:35:34 #kisslinux <midfavila> if humanity ever dies out it's going to be because of something stupid like clock skew.
2021-04-26T18:35:36 #kisslinux <midfavila> mark my words.
2021-04-26T18:39:39 #kisslinux <m3g> I suppose kiss's way of usermod is just editing /etc/passwd and /etc/group?
2021-04-26T18:39:59 #kisslinux <midfavila> you can use shadowutils as well
2021-04-26T18:40:03 #kisslinux <ominous_anonymou> adduser / addgroup
2021-04-26T18:40:14 #kisslinux <ominous_anonymou> and the passwd command
2021-04-26T18:40:31 #kisslinux <midfavila> i assume m3g is asking about usermod because of groups.
2021-04-26T18:40:35 #kisslinux <m3g> yes
2021-04-26T18:40:47 #kisslinux <m3g> group/user renaming
2021-04-26T18:40:51 #kisslinux <midfavila> you can edit /etc/groups if you want
2021-04-26T18:40:57 #kisslinux <midfavila> might be easier for some stuff
2021-04-26T18:44:15 #kisslinux <dilyn> don't forget to use find to change permissions on folders and files :X
2021-04-26T18:46:36 #kisslinux <aarng> should be gucci when the gid does not change, no?
2021-04-26T18:46:42 #kisslinux <dilyn> yeah
2021-04-26T18:47:06 #kisslinux <dilyn> as long as uid and gid are the same, though you might notice that ls -l stops printing names
2021-04-26T18:48:13 #kisslinux <dilyn> just `chmod -R 777 /` ez
2021-04-26T18:48:51 #kisslinux <midfavila> dilyn s/777/7777
2021-04-26T18:49:40 #kisslinux <dilyn> 'the perfect permissions don't exi--'
2021-04-26T18:54:18 #kisslinux <midfavila> i've actually been going through perms with a fine-toothed comb on my new image
2021-04-26T18:54:31 #kisslinux <midfavila> making all the different utilities accessible by users in the appropriate groups
2021-04-26T18:54:44 #kisslinux <midfavila> e.g ping is suid for those in network
2021-04-26T18:54:55 #kisslinux <midfavila> otherwise noexec
2021-04-26T18:55:10 #kisslinux <midfavila> i'll probably tinker with capabilities though
2021-04-26T21:33:41 #kisslinux <midfavila> echo $((100-$(($(free -m | sed -e 's/ */ /g' -e '3!d' | cut -d ' ' -f3)/$(free -m | sed -e 's/ */ /g' -e '3!d' | cut -d ' ' -f2)))))
2021-04-26T21:33:49 #kisslinux <midfavila> we're ascending to levels of shit that shouldn't even be possible
2021-04-26T21:35:19 #kisslinux <ominous_anonymou> just learn awk and get it over with ;)
2021-04-26T21:35:38 #kisslinux <midfavila> you can't tell me what to do, old man
2021-04-26T21:35:45 #kisslinux <midfavila> you're not my dad
2021-04-26T21:35:57 #kisslinux <midfavila> awk is on the list though
2021-04-26T21:37:38 #kisslinux <ominous_anonymou> when are spring finals for you? may?
2021-04-26T21:38:50 #kisslinux <midfavila> idek man
2021-04-26T21:39:01 #kisslinux <midfavila> break is coming up soon, so that's a thing
2021-04-26T21:39:12 #kisslinux <midfavila> gonna spend it studying for the sec+ likely
2021-04-26T21:39:17 #kisslinux <midfavila> and also C
2021-04-26T21:41:29 #kisslinux <ominous_anonymou> i get the idea of certifications, and yeah sure they "guarantee" a certain level of knowledge...
2021-04-26T21:42:03 #kisslinux <ominous_anonymou> but i've always learned better by doing things myself and that's not very often how certifications are taught/done (at least the ones i had access to)
2021-04-26T21:42:31 #kisslinux <midfavila> obviously
2021-04-26T21:42:39 #kisslinux <midfavila> but I need sec+ for work
2021-04-26T21:42:52 #kisslinux <midfavila> because I'd like to avoid the whole "dying on the street of hypothermia" thing
2021-04-26T21:43:01 #kisslinux <midfavila> and I'm not willing to work in fast food or at walmart again
2021-04-26T21:43:36 #kisslinux <ominous_anonymou> i took a computer networking course and was all excited to you know... build out a little network. turns out they just had us use some network diagramming software and we never touched an actual physical switch/router/anything
2021-04-26T21:43:50 #kisslinux <midfavila> my college did that
2021-04-26T21:43:54 #kisslinux <ominous_anonymou> fucking OpNet, that's what it was called
2021-04-26T21:43:59 #kisslinux <midfavila> there's a reason I don't bother showing up to class
2021-04-26T21:44:08 #kisslinux <midfavila> it is, unironically, a waste of my time
2021-04-26T21:44:33 #kisslinux <midfavila> i learn more tinkering with FVWM than I do sitting in the instructor's Discord call for four hours a day
2021-04-26T21:46:38 #kisslinux <midfavila> the first three months of my diploma consisted of "what is a computer" and "how do I type". which is amusing, considering it's supposed to be "advanced" systems administration and computer security
2021-04-26T21:48:00 #kisslinux <ominous_anonymou> how long is the program? is it potentially just the entry level bs everyone goes through to weed out people?
2021-04-26T21:48:09 #kisslinux <midfavila> no, it's not
2021-04-26T21:48:18 #kisslinux <midfavila> i'm eight months or so in out of two years
2021-04-26T21:48:34 #kisslinux <midfavila> we've only *just* touched the commandline, and it's fucking powershell
2021-04-26T21:48:55 #kisslinux <ominous_anonymou> oh that reminds me
2021-04-26T21:49:02 #kisslinux <ominous_anonymou> has anyone packaged Powershell for KISS yet?
2021-04-26T21:49:18 #kisslinux <midfavila> no
2021-04-26T21:49:19 #kisslinux <midfavila> and if they do
2021-04-26T21:49:21 #kisslinux <midfavila> i'm going to find them
2021-04-26T21:49:34 #kisslinux <midfavila> and inflict grievous bodily injury
2021-04-26T21:51:00 #kisslinux <midfavila> it's like
2021-04-26T21:51:07 #kisslinux <midfavila> on the same tier as using ntfs as your main FS on linux
2021-04-26T21:52:09 #kisslinux <ominous_anonymou> aw it's not so bad, just takes forever to learn. newer Windows has a nice shell just a step below an IDE for it too (Powershell ISE)
2021-04-26T21:52:19 #kisslinux <midfavila> okay
2021-04-26T21:52:24 #kisslinux <midfavila> but consider the following
2021-04-26T21:52:33 #kisslinux <midfavila> i can literally just use a bourne shell on winshit
2021-04-26T21:52:48 #kisslinux <ominous_anonymou> makes most things nicer to do than using CMD
2021-04-26T21:53:00 #kisslinux <midfavila> isn't the whole point of windows to like
2021-04-26T21:53:04 #kisslinux <midfavila> not do things via the commandline
2021-04-26T21:54:32 #kisslinux <ominous_anonymou> i guess you could say so, yeah. its easier for me to remember command line equivalents (most of the time) because each version of Windows dicks around with how all the settings and menus are displayed
2021-04-26T21:55:12 #kisslinux <ominous_anonymou> mEtRo WaS a GoOd IdEa
2021-04-26T21:56:37 #kisslinux <midfavila> see
2021-04-26T21:56:41 #kisslinux <midfavila> i just don't use windows
2021-04-26T21:56:44 #kisslinux <midfavila> that's my solution
2021-04-26T21:58:29 #kisslinux <midfavila> my high school was unironically better at teaching these concepts anyway
2021-04-26T21:59:26 #kisslinux <dilyn> easier to remember how to open file explorer and navigate to a directory to see what's in it than trying to remember what `ls` is in powershell
2021-04-26T21:59:51 #kisslinux <midfavila> i mean, unironically this
2021-04-26T21:59:59 #kisslinux <midfavila> powershell cmdlets are ridiculous
2021-04-26T22:02:03 #kisslinux <ominous_anonymou> durrrr
2021-04-26T22:02:06 #kisslinux <ominous_anonymou> i mean dir
2021-04-26T22:02:12 #kisslinux <ominous_anonymou> :)
2021-04-26T22:02:37 #kisslinux <zenomat> does anybody have xephyr packaged or has a pointer to how?
2021-04-26T22:03:21 #kisslinux <zenomat> or does it even work? because arch wiki lists systemd as dependency
2021-04-26T22:11:14 #kisslinux <ominous_anonymou> its part of xorg-server, you could try building with --enable-xephyr and see where it craps out maybe?
2021-04-26T22:11:35 #kisslinux <zenomat> yep, currently building xorg-server, lets see what happends
2021-04-26T22:11:39 #kisslinux <zenomat> happens
2021-04-26T22:12:48 #kisslinux <ominous_anonymou> https://freenode.logbot.info/kisslinux/20200429#c3755424
2021-04-26T22:14:21 #kisslinux <zenomat> ahm thank you
2021-04-26T22:19:32 #kisslinux <ominous_anonymou> dylan used to use it to play with SOWM and his other X projects, like here: https://www.reddit.com/r/unixporn/comments/hzxe3i/sowm_oo/fzphn1i/
2021-04-26T22:19:41 #kisslinux <ominous_anonymou> so i would assume it is achievable without too much hassle
2021-04-26T22:21:46 #kisslinux <zenomat> welp, it build with the flag, but there is no binary. but, let me take a look, i can figure this out^^
2021-04-26T22:23:12 #kisslinux <ominous_anonymou> i know its in meson_options so i would assume it would have a configure flag, dunno
2021-04-26T22:29:55 #kisslinux <ominous_anonymou> try --enable-kdrive
2021-04-26T22:31:56 #kisslinux <zenomat> ah, now we are getting something. Shows libxdmcp as missing, like the log said. packaging that now
2021-04-26T22:35:07 #kisslinux <ominous_anonymou> https://gitlab.freedesktop.org/xorg/xserver/-/blob/master/configure.ac
2021-04-26T22:54:08 #kisslinux <zenomat> eyy, it worked. thanks for the help. im gonna log off tho and play with it tomorrow. see ya all
2021-04-26T22:55:21 #kisslinux <ominous_anonymou> adios!
2021-04-26T23:04:57 #kisslinux <riteo> hi!
2021-04-26T23:05:06 #kisslinux <dilyn> o/