💾 Archived View for gemini.ctrl-c.club › ~phoebos › logs › freenode-kisslinux-2020-05-25.txt captured on 2024-05-10 at 14:37:05.
⬅️ Previous capture (2021-12-17)
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2020-05-25T01:09:11 #kisslinux <Crestwave> I actually suggested removing that ternary before but dylan said it wasn't readable enough :P
2020-05-25T01:10:15 #kisslinux <Crestwave> Why the quotes in case "$*" at line 1392?
2020-05-25T01:11:51 #kisslinux <Crestwave> Also, couldn't you replace line 494 with `: >>depends`? Line 1455 is a bit trickier and would probably have to be `{ : >>"$repo_dir/checksums"; } 2>/dev/null }`
2020-05-25T01:26:52 #kisslinux <Crestwave> Why don't you quote $KISS_ROOT in ${PWD#$KISS_ROOT} and such? Probably won't be a problem, but shouldn't you quote it anyway unless it's actually intended to be a pattern?
2020-05-25T01:29:17 #kisslinux <Crestwave> And it does seem that the ls -ld parsing for the symlink will break on targets that contain ' -> ' as E5ten mentinoned; it doesn't seem likely and the other uses do seem to be safe, but the information at the top of the script seems a bit misleading
2020-05-25T02:17:50 #kisslinux <flippy> okay, there we go
2020-05-25T02:17:52 #kisslinux <flippy> virtualbox is finally working okay
2020-05-25T02:18:01 #kisslinux <flippy> i hate this program but it's the only one with a nice clicky clicky gui
2020-05-25T02:26:30 #kisslinux <Crestwave> What about virt-manager?
2020-05-25T02:32:04 #kisslinux <Crestwave> Also, has Ctrl+C to execute pkg_clean been tested? It seems like it could get into a messy state; I could be wrong, but maybe throw in an exit at the end of it or something?
2020-05-25T02:38:41 #kisslinux <Crestwave> And have you read the message I sent before about using $(()) unquoted being like using $# unquoted (which is actually subject to word splitting if IFS is set to a number)? I would either quote both or quote neither
2020-05-25T02:39:46 #kisslinux <Crestwave> Why the extra space in line 917?
2020-05-25T03:13:33 #kisslinux <konimex> dylan: regarding git package, isn't bumping rel every single day missing the point of... you know, git packages?
2020-05-25T04:15:58 #kisslinux <dylan02> o/
2020-05-25T04:26:12 #kisslinux <dylan02> ax: I'll say one more thing. Instances where packages fail to build or fail to work once installed (due to some change in the package, etc) are so very common with distributions. Look at any distribution's bug tracker. The important part is that they be reported with as much information as possible (with a reproduction if possible). There's also the high chance of issues caused by the specific package list installed, system confi
2020-05-25T04:32:43 #kisslinux <dylan02> I spend (and have spent) a lot of time working on KISS. I do this for free and donations are few and far between (thank you to those who have donated!). In reality, I owe you absolutely nothing (and I choose to provide support).
2020-05-25T04:34:47 #kisslinux <dylan02> Send bug reports my way (with as much information as possible) and I'll look into the issues you're having. I sometimes forget about passing messages left in IRC (which contain little information).
2020-05-25T04:35:59 #kisslinux <dylan02> konimex: Somewhat, yeah. It
2020-05-25T04:37:28 #kisslinux <dylan02> konimex: Yeah.. It's an interesting use case and the maintainer has his reasons for doing this. If I recall, there weren't any releases/git tags when the package was submitted.
2020-05-25T04:38:16 #kisslinux <dylan02> Seeing as there are releases now, it makes more sense to have 'tuitube' track releases and a new 'tuitube-git' (without rel bumps).
2020-05-25T04:44:12 #kisslinux <dylan02> Crestwave: Pushed a commit containing nearly all proposed changes, thanks. Working on the rest now (last touch call, ls -ld issue).
2020-05-25T04:47:03 #kisslinux <kisslinuxuser> do people not read the faq? literally says there "Packages are updated as quickly as possible"
2020-05-25T04:47:26 #kisslinux <dylan02> Crestwave: Ctrl+C works fine with pkg_clean() and has since the start.
2020-05-25T04:51:01 #kisslinux <E5ten> dylan02: I've been thinking about the ls -ld issue and haven't been able to think of a solution, although I haven't been at a computer to be able to actually try to work on it, I hope you're able to think of a fix lol
2020-05-25T04:51:49 #kisslinux <dylan02> I'm working on it now. The current code works with -> throughout the file name but fails if -> is in the target itself.
2020-05-25T04:52:49 #kisslinux <E5ten> Like part of a solution is check if the file contains ->, if not only do #->, not ##->, but that doesn't fix a situation where the file has ->
2020-05-25T04:53:23 #kisslinux <E5ten> If the file does have -> you can do ##, but then a situation where both the file and target have -> still doesn't work
2020-05-25T04:54:19 #kisslinux <dylan02> Yup
2020-05-25T04:54:38 #kisslinux <dylan02> I could bail if there's more than one instance of '->' in the output.
2020-05-25T04:57:45 #kisslinux <E5ten> Maybe you could somehow remove the first 6 fields, then idk but maybe the original file name is the exact same as then name in the output, you # away that, and see if the start of what's remaining is ' -> '?
2020-05-25T04:58:55 #kisslinux <dylan02> The issue then is that the file name could contain spaces (which breaks field numbering). The file name could also be displayed differently to its actual name (this is why ls output for file name information is a bad idea).
2020-05-25T05:03:42 #kisslinux <E5ten> Is the target after -> in -l even guaranteed to be exact or could that have some shit like a ? In place of unprintable characters?
2020-05-25T05:05:17 #kisslinux <dylan02> It's the _contents_ of the symlink itself as-is.
2020-05-25T05:05:34 #kisslinux <dylan02> > "%s -> %s", <pathname of link>, <contents of link>
2020-05-25T05:06:09 #kisslinux <dylan02> https://pubs.opengroup.org/onlinepubs/9699919799/
2020-05-25T05:07:02 #kisslinux <E5ten> What I mean is, do those contents have the same lack of guarantee of the output actually being the same as the path, or is that also potentially subject to ls file-name fuckery?
2020-05-25T05:07:49 #kisslinux <E5ten> Sorry those both mean the same thing, I mean is it potentially subject to that same dumb ls file-name stuff or not
2020-05-25T05:08:51 #kisslinux <E5ten> God why isn't something like readlink or anything with equivalent functionality POSIX how is using ls -l for this supposed to be acceptable
2020-05-25T05:09:43 #kisslinux <dylan02> I thought not though it looks like GNU ls does do the display fuckery before printing it.
2020-05-25T05:10:10 #kisslinux <dylan02> I thought "contents of link" meant the target as-is.
2020-05-25T05:10:38 #kisslinux <dylan02> https://github.com/coreutils/coreutils/blob/master/src/ls.c#L3492-L3498
2020-05-25T05:11:02 #kisslinux <dylan02> More here: https://github.com/coreutils/coreutils/blob/master/src/ls.c#L3642-L3672
2020-05-25T05:11:43 #kisslinux <E5ten> I guess there isn't really an alternative anyway so that particular problem isn't solvable
2020-05-25T05:11:48 #kisslinux <dylan02> So... if 'ls' is out for symlink information... What's next?
2020-05-25T05:12:09 #kisslinux <E5ten> I don't think there's anything else
2020-05-25T05:13:00 #kisslinux <dylan02> Actually
2020-05-25T05:13:11 #kisslinux <dylan02> I think we can just resolve the path symlinks where it's used.
2020-05-25T05:14:53 #kisslinux <E5ten> I don't understand?
2020-05-25T05:15:19 #kisslinux <dylan02> There's no need to resolve file symlinks in addition to path symlinks.
2020-05-25T05:16:31 #kisslinux <dylan02> Example: https://termbin.com/4g7o
2020-05-25T05:17:42 #kisslinux <dylan02> '/lib/libz.so' only needs to become '/usr/lib/libz.so' (and not '/usr/lib/libz.so.1.2.11') as '/usr/lib/libz.so' exists in the package's manifest in addition to the file's target.
2020-05-25T05:18:33 #kisslinux <E5ten> Ohhh
2020-05-25T05:18:38 #kisslinux <E5ten> Shit you're right
2020-05-25T05:19:03 #kisslinux <E5ten> That's great
2020-05-25T05:20:17 #kisslinux <E5ten> So now ls -l will genuinely only be used for stuff it can't not be portable with
2020-05-25T05:20:53 #kisslinux <dylan02> Yeah
2020-05-25T05:21:35 #kisslinux <E5ten> Still annoying that #* #* doesn't work cuz busybox pads output lol
2020-05-25T05:21:59 #kisslinux <dylan02> I know....
2020-05-25T05:22:46 #kisslinux <E5ten> I genuinely can't comprehend the thinking behind adding unneeded padding that breaks with the standard
2020-05-25T05:29:11 #kisslinux <dylan02> Crestwave: ash seems to not allow one to catch errors on ': >> file'. It looks like I'll need to keep around this touch call for checksums.
2020-05-25T05:35:48 #kisslinux <dylan02> Crestwave: Regarding the quoting of '$*': https://github.com/kisslinux/kiss/runs/705161161
2020-05-25T06:20:36 #kisslinux <dylan02> perish: dilyn: Any chance you can send XFCE4/KDE screenshots my way? I want to mention both projects in the latest blog post. :)
2020-05-25T06:20:49 #kisslinux <dylan02> dilynm:
2020-05-25T06:51:55 #kisslinux <brandon> ?
2020-05-25T06:52:17 #kisslinux <brandon> :2020-05-25T06:52:21 #kisslinux <brandon> ?
2020-05-25T06:52:24 #kisslinux <brandon> ?
2020-05-25T06:52:41 #kisslinux <brandon> 2020-05-25T07:06:16 #kisslinux <E5ten> dylan02: Given that you already have a read call on the version file that'd error with a missing newline, imo you should just require properly newline-ended files and drop the || [ "$var" ] from while read loops
2020-05-25T07:47:22 #kisslinux <Crestwave> dylan02: `{ : >>/foo; } 2>/dev/null` as a regular user on ash outputs nothing and exits with 1 on my machine. Does it do something else on yours?
2020-05-25T07:48:16 #kisslinux <Crestwave> Also, that shellcheck failure is strange. It (correctly) doesn't trigger on my machine nor the website.
2020-05-25T07:49:13 #kisslinux <Crestwave> $# in [ $# -gt 1 ] still isn't quoted, by the way?
2020-05-25T09:51:07 #kisslinux <dylan02> Crestwave: Fixed $#, thanks.
2020-05-25T09:51:28 #kisslinux <dylan02> Crestwave: Try: { : >>/foo; } 2>/dev/null || echo hi
2020-05-25T09:51:37 #kisslinux <dylan02> The 'echo' never executes.
2020-05-25T10:55:54 #kisslinux <dylan02> https://k1ss.org/blog/20200525a
2020-05-25T10:56:00 #kisslinux <dylan02> "This month in KISS (#2)"
2020-05-25T10:56:13 #kisslinux <dylan02> Please let me know if I've forgotten something!
2020-05-25T11:14:57 #kisslinux <merakor> I removed strip-components :(
2020-05-25T11:16:03 #kisslinux <kisslinuxuser> A user of KISS has made an incredible donation. An entire system!
2020-05-25T11:16:05 #kisslinux <kisslinuxuser> :O
2020-05-25T11:16:07 #kisslinux <kisslinuxuser> damn great news
2020-05-25T11:20:10 #kisslinux <dylan02> Yeah! It came as such a shock to me when I woke up to the email.
2020-05-25T11:20:34 #kisslinux <kisslinuxuser> good specs too
2020-05-25T11:20:54 #kisslinux <dylan02> Crazy specs. I've never owned anything near the power of this machine.
2020-05-25T11:26:01 #kisslinux <dylan02> It's an amazing gesture... I will be putting the system to good use! This will free me up to do more work in less time and I'll be able to tinker with cross-system usage of the package manager and binary caches. Will open up some neat possibilities..
2020-05-25T11:28:16 #kisslinux <kisslinuxuser> dylan02: will kisslinux be ource based only? or binary support later?
2020-05-25T11:28:19 #kisslinux <kisslinuxuser> source*
2020-05-25T11:32:07 #kisslinux <dylan02> Binaries are supported now (albeit with more manual work than users would like). Having binary support for each package (and what I'd call "first class" support for binaries) is difficult as I don't have the funds to host everything (nor the time in this current situation). When I make my millions it'll be a sure thing though. ;)
2020-05-25T11:33:06 #kisslinux <dylan02> With this new system I will be looking into making the binary cache easily usable between machines. I'll have two systems to mess around with instead of one.
2020-05-25T12:15:59 #kisslinux <fehawen> Really liking the monthly updates, prefer them over the weekly ones. This one was a great read, especially the news about the system donation. Wow.
2020-05-25T12:17:39 #kisslinux <fehawen> So I installed KISS (a couple of times), trying to figure out what the hell I was doing wrong with GRUB, which refused to work. Turned out that with defconfig and my own changes, I'd completely forgotten NVMe driver lol >_<
2020-05-25T12:18:19 #kisslinux <fehawen> Sure, I realized I had nvmeXn instead of the usual sdX, but I didn't give it more thought other than that. Well, lesson learned hah.
2020-05-25T12:19:36 #kisslinux <fehawen> Now I just have to figure out how/why my wifi card won't show up (yes, I have the correct firmware, can't find any problems there).
2020-05-25T12:22:53 #kisslinux <icyphox> dylan02: Great post!
2020-05-25T12:23:16 #kisslinux <icyphox> What a best of a system, too. Well deserved, my man.
2020-05-25T12:24:30 #kisslinux <icyphox> beast*
2020-05-25T12:24:32 #kisslinux <icyphox> lol
2020-05-25T12:41:29 #kisslinux <aarng> I love how KISS comes pre-installed
2020-05-25T13:29:55 #kisslinux <dylan03> o/
2020-05-25T13:32:58 #kisslinux <fehawen> How do I obtain an IP address after having connected to a network with wpa_supplicant? :P
2020-05-25T13:33:16 #kisslinux <fehawen> I only know of 'dhclient <interface>'... I'm really not great at these things.
2020-05-25T13:35:02 #kisslinux <fehawen> Perhaps I ought to know how to even start services to begin with...
2020-05-25T13:37:21 #kisslinux <dylan03> 'dhcpcd'
2020-05-25T13:46:00 #kisslinux <dilyn> dylan03: I would send screenshots if I were able to take them xD
2020-05-25T13:46:13 #kisslinux <dilyn> KDE is still very much 'unusable'
2020-05-25T13:47:18 #kisslinux <dylan03> All good. lol
2020-05-25T13:49:01 #kisslinux <dilyn> is there a way to make st open at a specific size? like, have it open displaying 80 columns already
2020-05-25T13:49:10 #kisslinux <dilyn> i hate adjusting it manually by ten pixels
2020-05-25T13:50:41 #kisslinux <icyphox> dilyn: Yeah it's specifiable in the config, IIRC.
2020-05-25T13:50:48 #kisslinux <dilyn> ofc
2020-05-25T13:50:49 #kisslinux <fehawen> dilyn: 'static unsigned int cols = 52; static unsigned int rows = 12;'
2020-05-25T13:50:50 #kisslinux <icyphox> config.h, that is.
2020-05-25T13:50:54 #kisslinux <icyphox> ^
2020-05-25T13:50:55 #kisslinux <dilyn> perfection
2020-05-25T13:51:02 #kisslinux <dilyn> tysm for some reason i just couldn't see it
2020-05-25T13:51:04 #kisslinux <icyphox> lol
2020-05-25T14:10:25 #kisslinux <Crestwave> dylan02: Huh, looks like it actually aborts what it's currently running; `{ : >>/foo; } 2>/dev/null; echo bar` doesn't output anything either. A subshell would work but I understand if you'd rather keep touch in that case
2020-05-25T14:23:30 #kisslinux <E5ten> Would "printf '' >> file || whatever" work?
2020-05-25T14:24:11 #kisslinux <E5ten> dylan03: Crestwave
2020-05-25T14:25:05 #kisslinux <aarng> or simply `true >>/foo` maybe
2020-05-25T14:31:41 #kisslinux <E5ten> That too
2020-05-25T14:37:43 #kisslinux <aarng> dylan: `kiss(1) line 1390: you forgot to also set the new KISS_ env vars (colors, prompt etc.)
2020-05-25T14:44:47 #kisslinux <Crestwave> E5ten: Seems that other commands do work. I'm not sure why : is special in that case; like, even `{ { :; } >>/a; } 2>/dev/null || echo a` works O.o
2020-05-25T14:52:09 #kisslinux <E5ten> even a redirection with no command seems to work, but that'd cause a shellcheck warning
2020-05-25T14:57:27 #kisslinux <djt3[m]> does anyone have any idea if kiss has nfs support
2020-05-25T14:59:15 #kisslinux <E5ten> dylan03: od -c is XSI, I think you should parse the octal output
2020-05-25T15:01:24 #kisslinux <E5ten> dylan03: nevermind, just do -t c instead of -c
2020-05-25T15:04:25 #kisslinux <E5ten> also I'd add -A o because without a -A the offset base is apparently unspecified, and adding -A o means it would guarantee it to be octal, so you know the match would be correct
2020-05-25T15:16:16 #kisslinux <claudia02> dylanaraps: typo: https://github.com/kisslinux/website/blob/master/site/blog/20200525a.txt#L343
2020-05-25T15:18:39 #kisslinux <fehawen> Should '/etc/modules-load.d/' be used for loading modules at boot time, or should udev be utilized for that?
2020-05-25T15:22:05 #kisslinux <E5ten> isn't /etc/modules-load.d a systemd thing?
2020-05-25T15:22:34 #kisslinux <dilyn> i use an rc.d/*.boot file; you could use inittab or w/e
2020-05-25T15:23:12 #kisslinux <dilyn> there's even an example in there for you
2020-05-25T15:23:23 #kisslinux <fehawen> E5ten: Could be. I find it hard to google these things, as the answer's tend to be distro specific (but not outspokenly so). Need a better source for this kind of information.
2020-05-25T15:23:28 #kisslinux <fehawen> dilyn: Thanks
2020-05-25T16:00:39 #kisslinux <mcpcpc> curious.. does it make sense that i need to rebuild git and curl on a fresh KISS install, after running “kiss u” and “cd /var/db/kiss/installed && kiss build *”?
2020-05-25T16:01:16 #kisslinux <mcpcpc> i didn’t have to do this until recently.
2020-05-25T16:11:17 #kisslinux <dylan02> aarng: Fixed.
2020-05-25T16:11:23 #kisslinux <dylan02> E5ten: Fixed.
2020-05-25T16:11:34 #kisslinux <dylan02> claudia02: Fixed.
2020-05-25T16:13:11 #kisslinux <dylan02> djt3[m]: NFS support should be as simple as a package (or two) and the right kernel options. Or am I wrong?
2020-05-25T16:14:16 #kisslinux <djt3[m]> dylan2: idk, i tried samba support and gave up because it had way too many deps, not sure if its different with nfs. dont really wanna do a reinstall again if it isnt possible. are there packages for it in the official repos?
2020-05-25T16:16:37 #kisslinux <dylan02> > are there packages for it in the official repos?
2020-05-25T16:16:41 #kisslinux <dylan02> There aren't, no.
2020-05-25T16:19:54 #kisslinux <dylan02> It should be as simple as nfs-utils (and its dependencies)
2020-05-25T16:23:09 #kisslinux <djt3[m]> dylan02: ok thnaks, ill be looking into it for sure. if i get it working ill be sure to add it to the community repos
2020-05-25T16:26:30 #kisslinux <dylan02> A tip or two: Don't 100% trust the dependency lists for software from other distributions. They're usually wrong to some extent and you may end up packaging more than is needed. (To give an example, Arch tends to enable all optional stuff for their packages).
2020-05-25T16:27:49 #kisslinux <dylan02> The best way is to start with nfs-utils and try to build it (packaging/installing each dependency that it yells at you about until it builds).
2020-05-25T16:28:20 #kisslinux <dylan02> Another great resource is './configure --help' (or equivalent for other build systems).
2020-05-25T16:28:31 #kisslinux <aarng> I'm actually interested in nfs too
2020-05-25T16:28:39 #kisslinux <aarng> though so far I've been too lazy to look into it
2020-05-25T16:28:46 #kisslinux <dylan02> Post in this chat if you run into any issues. I and others will be happy to help.
2020-05-25T16:28:47 #kisslinux <aarng> and used netcat to transfer files
2020-05-25T16:28:53 #kisslinux <dylan02> Heh
2020-05-25T16:29:37 #kisslinux <dylan02> djt3[m]: You might find this handy as well: http://www.linuxfromscratch.org/blfs/view/svn/basicnet/nfs-utils.html
2020-05-25T16:30:17 #kisslinux <djt3[m]> ok thanks for everything :)
2020-05-25T16:37:28 #kisslinux <himmalerin> dylan02: I was reading the This Month in KISS and saw "All usage of 'install' has been replaced with basic POSIX utilities.", should I do the same for my package's build files or leave them using install?
2020-05-25T16:38:38 #kisslinux <himmalerin> that donated computer looks awesome, by the way! Impressive system you'll be getting
2020-05-25T16:40:09 #kisslinux <dylan02> himmalerin: It's entirely up to you. It's very difficult to make the build files 100% portable as chances are that calling 'make' will call 'install' anyway. That portion of the blog post is in relation to the package manager and not the official repositories.
2020-05-25T17:12:19 #kisslinux <spacehare> dylan02: will you be building additional packages once you get your build system, or will you be sticking to just building ff?
2020-05-25T17:17:56 #kisslinux <dylan02> spacehare: I build everything in the official repositories. If it's about providing -bin packages (or binaries), this won't happen any time soon. I can't speak for the future though.
2020-05-25T19:43:46 #kisslinux <illiliti> https://github.com/kisslinux/kiss/blob/master/kiss#L346 << -exec sh -c 'mv -f "$@" .' _ {} +
2020-05-25T20:37:51 #kisslinux <fehawen> Pardon the question, but I can't figure this out. My ~/.profile and ~/.ashrc does not seem to take effect (as in, they're not loaded). And when start X and opening a new terminal, it opens in ~/dotfiles by default for some reason. '~' is '/home/myusername' in this instance (I'm not root). Any... thoughts?
2020-05-25T21:01:03 #kisslinux <fehawen> Never mind...
2020-05-25T21:45:13 #kisslinux <claudia> merakor: gst-plugins-base needs linux-headers (:
2020-05-25T22:48:54 #kisslinux <dilyn> figured out my kernel issues
2020-05-25T22:49:10 #kisslinux <dilyn> if anybody was lookin' to build linux-nitrous you need elfutils proper, not just libelf
2020-05-25T22:57:47 #kisslinux <E5ten> what does elfutils libelf have that linux-nitrous needs that the other libelf doesn't have?
2020-05-25T23:03:20 #kisslinux <dilyn> gelf_getsymshndx
2020-05-25T23:03:25 #kisslinux <dilyn> in /usr/include/gelf.h
2020-05-25T23:06:04 #kisslinux <E5ten> yikes, seems that's an upstream change they pulled, I guess the old libelf is gonna stop working on next release for any kernel
2020-05-25T23:06:19 #kisslinux <dilyn> yeah :2020-05-25T23:12:18 #kisslinux <dilyn> https://github.com/dilyn-corner/KISS-me/tree/master/KISS-me/elfutils
2020-05-25T23:12:20 #kisslinux <dilyn> for posterity
2020-05-25T23:18:13 #kisslinux <E5ten> since kiss is probably gonna have to provide a different libelf since the old one won't work, I'd suggest the one from elftoolchain cuz elfutils is impossible to build with clang
2020-05-25T23:18:42 #kisslinux <dilyn> big ooooffff
2020-05-25T23:22:16 #kisslinux <mcf> i sent some patches a while back to support elftoolchain libelf for building linux. i haven't tested with latest linux sources, but it's been working fine for me
2020-05-25T23:26:04 #kisslinux <mcf> i believe you'll need https://github.com/elftoolchain/elftoolchain/commit/4857158172f38c6f66a51f9249c7c49d846fa7e7, which is not yet in a released elftoolchain version