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shite. I should have paid more attention. I seem to be unable to keep up with things going to shit,
Jan 19 · 4 months ago
Is there anything XUbuntu offers that you can't get from Debian+XFCE?
🚀 stack [OP] · Jan 19 at 22:01:
@lufte, I don't think so. I originally just used Ubuntu, then really hated gnome, so xubuntu seemed reasonable. I don't even care about XFCE, I've been dwming it for over a year. I should probably just go to void or alpine or something like that. I did give FreeBSD a try but it felt like pulling teeth
😎 flipperzero · Jan 19 at 22:46:
@stack what are you looking for out of the distro you seek? are you open to heading into different base-install distros with separate package management? there's good slackware distros like porteus, puppylinux has slack and arch options iirc, and yea there's even artix or redhat forks like Rocky or Cent.
🚀 stack [OP] · Jan 20 at 03:12:
@flipperzero: at this point I think I want something minimal and safe. All I do is code stuff in pure C, forth, lisp, and assembly, and dabble in photography. I don't care much for systemd, and don't want to be on the bleeding edge (a reasonable update schedule sounds better than rolling release ). I got comfy with debian way of doing things, but am not particularly attached to it.
If you're familiar with Ubuntu then Debian is probably your best bet. It's boring, reliable, well-supported by dev tools, and most packages you'd want are available. It supports Flatpak and Snap for packages not found in the repository.
If you want to try something new that doesn't use systemd, then Alpine is a solid choice. It's definitely a different approach, though. There isn't a huge learning curve but you'll have to fight your muscle memory on some things.
🚀 stack [OP] · Jan 20 at 04:56:
Things I don't appreciate: ps showing 100 processes when nothing but a single terminal running; mount showing pages of garbage because things pretending to be filesystems....
🚀 ibannieto · Jan 20 at 07:52:
Sounds like you want to try OpenBSD with dwm. Your toolchain fits very good with this minimal operating system.
Based on those specific complaints @ibannieto is right, OpenBSD might be a better fit. By disabling things I didn't want/need (like the ipv6 service and audio) I was able to get ps down to a tiny handful of processes. Very cozy.
🚀 stack [OP] · Jan 20 at 19:03:
@gamma, @ibaniento: paradoxically, I just tried FreeBSD for a couple of months. While I loved the minimalism, I gave up because it was just too hard to use it as my main machine. Connecting to WIFI, attaching backup drives, dealing with ZFS (which I theoretically like but never again), and an incompatible-with-linux set of kernel calls and ABIs made it just too painful and I went back to Xubuntu, and then noticed this fucklery.
So I think I want to stick with Linux for now, but a minimal one.
Ah, OK. Definitely look into Alpine, or perhaps Void. Alpine is extremely lightweight (it was originally designed for servers) but has a good desktop experience via community contributions. I don't have much experience with Void but it seems to be well-liked among its users and is also known to be lightweight.
🚀 stack [OP] · Jan 20 at 22:17:
@gamma: thanks. I am also curious about Manjaro - although it's a rolling distro, the strength of the Arch community is tempting...
Manjaro is a solid distro if you want things to "just work" but I wouldn't call it lightweight. Generally speaking, distros that are built on top of others (like Manjaro or Ubuntu) are going to include "extras" that distinguish them from the base distro. These "extras" often end up being unnecessary bloat.
🚀 stack [OP] · Jan 21 at 03:33:
@gamma, when you say bloat do you mean just extra software taking up disk space (not a dealbreaker) or running processes, polluted file system, and impossible-to-reason-about initialization?
Both. Manjaro uses systemd (same as Arch). The default install also includes a lot of stuff that you might want to remove. In my opinion the installer should ask before installing things like cups, audio servers, avahi, etc. I understand the "user friendly" argument behind including that stuff by default, but I get tired of uninstalling things after a fresh install.
I do want to emphasize that I'm an atypical user though in terms of minimalism. Manjaro is a decent distro, especially for beginners who want to experiment with an Arch-based distro or people who just need a functioning distro to quickly slap onto some supported hardware for whatever reason.
Ubuntu Pro: WTF? — I've been using XUbuntu for over a decade now, I think... Mostly OK, my main complaint was that it's getting bigger than I am comfortable with - way too many processes running that I cannot explain, etc... But it appears that it is hoding back released updates of opensource software unless I pay them, or at least register (why?) as an individual. I think it's time for me to go to a simpler distro that is not collecting personal information.