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Soy chai latte please?
Been thinking lately about my departure from the Christian faith. In my corner of the faith, leadership was fond of saying that the church isn't a social club but from where I stand now, I kinda think I could get into that. There's no off-ramp for the Christian faith, at least not from the lane I was in... I kinda wonder if there is a denomination or congregation where you can lose your faith but stay in the community. Like when you stop believing in Santa Clause, but you still pretend to believe for the benefit of the younger ones, but the adults aren't looking over their shoulder for elf on the shelf or whatever. But I can't imagine showing up in a church I would be familiar with (from a liturgical standpoint) and being fully accepted with no expectation that I would eventually start believing again. I would constantly be worried that leadership and teachers that were trying to convert my kids to save their souls, and that anyone being nice or friendly was only doing so with the ulterior motive of bringing me and my family of lost sheep back into the fold.
Like, is there a version of the Christian faith that starts with the convenient bible stories that are helpful for coping with the fear of death and existential uncertainty, but eventually ushers you into a secular reality? Or is it best to just start kids off with the existential uncertainty from the start? "Happy fifth birthday, we're on a little blue spec with pretty much no clue what's going on, welcome to the party."
I'm sure my distrust of Christian motives has a lot to do with how I was acting and thinking as a Christian, but that's also what I was taught as a Christian, so...
...how are we coming on that soy chai?
Hi ~ropocl. If you are looking for a non-theistic community, that is focused on personal growth and education, living ethically, supporting others, and pushing back against creeping theocracy in government, you might find it in The Satanic Temple (TST). UUs and Quakers are still Christians, just very watered-down versions of the typical Protestant denominations that are so vocal in the US. I'd encourage you not to let the name put you off. No one is worshipping any kind of devil. TST is an organization of freethinkers and secular humanists, who use the Romantic-era literary figure of Satan (e.g., John Milton's "Paradise Lost") as a metaphor for the eternal adversary against tyranny and oppression (e.g., the church and particularly theocratic states) and the seeker of knowledge and enlightenment (e.g., the apple in the Biblical Garden of Eden story). Here's their website if you would like to learn more:
https://thesatanictemple.com/pages/about-us
Hey, if you ever find a comforting secular answer for fear of death, I'd love to hear it; it'd probably do wonders for my anxiety.
For context, I was raised Catholic, but from my recollection, I never really believed in it. My family eventually stopped going after all us kids went through confirmation (also when I quit CCD). I think they only really went at all because they thought it was important that we were raised with some sort of religion (for reasons that I don't understand). I think the formal nature of a lot of Catholic rituals really helped push me away from a religious point of view.
If I were raising a kid, I'd definitely lean into the existential uncertainty. I think if I had been introduced to the existential uncertainty at a younger age, I'd probably be more comfortable with it now. That said, I think it's still important to introduce children to religion fairly early on as well, in a context of just "this is something that exists in the world". Because no matter what, somebody will try to get them to convert at some point.
Also, I think you're probably right to be concerned about everyone trying to "save your souls", given the deep evangelical streak in most modern Christianity. It wasn't so much a thing in the church I grew up in, but my husband was sent out "soul winning" every weekend for a while.
That said, I think the closest thing to what you're looking for might be Unitarian Universalism. It came from some pretty radical sects of Christianity (by that I mean super-duper heretical from my Catholic upbringing), but it has evolved into a sort of anything goes, no specific religious dogma. As I understand it, most UU churches don't even have a stated belief on the existence of God at all. I've never sought out that sort of quasi-religious community, so I can't say for sure what it's like; my only experience with the UU church has been through my incidental experience living near one (when I lived nearby they ran a nice cafe to raise money for various social causes, and they made a pretty good soy chai).
Hey there, I've been struggling with this for just over 10 years now (half my life) and only very recently have I felt actually comfortable in my religious standing. I used to be a member of the Nazarene denomination but they... well, they've gone downhill a little bit (or at least the part of the church that I saw).
Anyway, after all of that time truly pondering this pretty much every day of my life, this is what I've arrived at. Christianity is probably not the right answer, especially if you still have the basic Christian morals (i.e. love unconditionally). I have struggled with the fact that some of the exact same people that taught me to love are hateful themselves and support divisive people. To me, this was an obvious red flag and I've only been proven right unfortunately. Don't mistake me: some of the best people I've met have been Christian and this confuses me quite a lot because they mean perfectly well. They distance themselves from all of the awful stuff surrounding it. My parents are a great example of this. However, I totally understand what you mean by the "need to convert" mentality they all have. It's not really their fault, it's just how religion is structured sociologically. I agree that it would be pretty difficult to be a part of a church while not believing and trying to save your family from being indoctrinated essentially. This is why I have a hard time being in a church.
To be clear, I'm not an atheist by any means. As for whether or not there's a God, I am a "hopeful agnostic" as Rhett from Rhett & Link puts it. Something I've been researching more are Asian religions, my favorite being Taoism. Even the more "out there" religions seem to be pretty down to earth, a key indicator being pluralism/non-absolutism. Zen Buddhism is also a favorite of mine for the same reasons. I don't know if I'll ever actually call myself a member of any of those religions anytime soon, but their wisdom provide a lot more comfort and direction than Christianity could ever provide me. To be clear once more: this is not an "ad," I'm just providing the path I've taken to a more sustainable spirituality in a post-Christian life.
As for the community, I'm not totally sure. I used to be in a large community of people who I loved that I've strayed away from because of this. "Was it worth it?" is a question I ask myself a lot; I genuinely believe the answer is yes, because I have opened myself up to learning more, loving more, and becoming a better person.
Email me at mail@jordanreger.com if you want to chat more about this because I could talk for hours about it. Cheers!
Not my personal cuppa, but I've heard a lot of nice things about the Religious Society of Friends, the Quakers. My understanding is it's built around the spiritual in everyday life, being present, being quiet, listening, with a vague foundation in protestant Christianity. I think about fielding those questions from my own young'un, and I think there's a lot of good stuff to meditate on here. When you think about the people in your life, the people you love, the experiences you have with them, what connectedness do you feel there, where does it come from? That might not be god, but it's something.