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As a parent of young children I hear about parents with older kids equipping their kids with all this surveillance hardware so they can track their kids for their apparent safety. I am strongly against this but I know the old privacy vs safety argument, and when it's your own kids at that age "you'll do it too"
I just feel like this is just prepping future generations to feel like they're constantly watched and then they're just okay with it as adults. it starts with baby monitors and then air tags and then life 360 and all that. this has effects on the psyche and personal liberties and all that and it bothers me.
I read about the panopticon in school and always think about it. how we adjust our thinking and actions because even subconsciously we think we're being watched.
2023-08-18 · 9 months ago · 👍 gyaradong
🚀 stack · 2023-08-18 at 03:16:
Didn't do it with my kids, and they are still around. When I was growing up you needed to find a pay phone and have some change to call someone. WTF.
It's more likely that some pervert with skills will be able to track your child's every step.
🛞 Troler · 2023-08-18 at 09:01:
The problem I see with doing such things is it assumes, that a child is not a human. It encourages you to see it as a part of a parent. Which is not true. A parent does not own a child, as it is not his property. He does not control how it acts. I say this because all rights are property rights. All wrongs are theft of property. I haven't rais'd a child, but I've been one and talk'd to many. See me who I am and what I appear to be. See a child for what it is and not what it wants to be seen as. See the law of the world for what it is and not what you want it to see it as.
🐐 drh3xx · 2023-08-18 at 11:52:
TBF we are constantly watched nowadays and the majority of adults are either oblivious or don't give two hoots :'( I'm not the majority and I would say it has a massive impact on my memtal health. Big Tech, commercial entities and governments have twisted tech in to a distopian vision that is currently next to impossible for individuals to escape.
🍩 wholesomedonut · 2023-08-18 at 20:48:
I don't intend to do this with mine. I think I'll have their phones eventually tied into some kind of "family" setup so we can share GPS location if it's needed for coordinating pickups, or heavens forbid it DOES become an issue and they must be found to keep out of danger...
but frankly I am not interested in constantly keeping an eye on them like that. They need to learn and grow at their own pace despite the world's dangers, because they must learn to _survive_ the world's dangers just like I did at their age. if I'm helicoptering them they'll stumble pretty hard when dad's not around to solve the problem for them.
🐦 wasolili [...] · 2023-08-19 at 00:55:
most of these tracking apps are through smartphones, aren't they? It seems counterproductive to me. If the kid is sneaking around, they'll just leave their phone behind and then it'll be harder to contact them if there is an emergency.
On the grim side, I don't think it will stop kidnappers either. A kidnapper will just throw the phone away.
🔭 Supernova · 2023-08-19 at 01:13:
I think this also goes hand in hand with social media. If they feel like they are always being watched, then there is no reason not to share everything on social media.
The entire concept of privacy and rights is going out the window. I think there should be an age limit before kids are able to use social media.
🛞 Troler · 2023-08-19 at 07:31:
Supernova, although I think it's a good idea for children to not use social media, an age limit is a bad idea. Ohio law is going take place in January not allowing children until 16 to create social media posts. How is it enforc'd? With government IDs! Your wish may be noble, but be it's going be us'd to incite on privacy for everyone.
🔭 Supernova · 2023-08-19 at 14:03:
@Troler I can understand your concerns, the use of govt issued IDs to enforce wasn't really on my radar. I do think it primarily up to parents to decide and enforce.
However how do we enforce the right drive right now? With a license. If you don't have a license you can't drive, so there really isn't any tracking or privacy concern for those under age who don't have a license. Maybe make it a requirement to identify yourself with a drivers or voter ID to signup for major social platforms.
1/2
🔭 Supernova · 2023-08-19 at 14:04:
Of course there will always be underground or opensource smaller platforms available that wouldn't enforce this. But perhaps being on those platforms where there would be far narrower reach in your social contacts wouldn't be a bad thing.
2/2
🐦 wasolili [...] · 2023-08-19 at 19:13:
If you don't have a license, you can't drive
Sure you can, you just need to avoid getting pulled over.
Humor aside, comparing driving and social media with respect to privacy is pretty weak. There's a LOT more information about someone collected on social media (private DMs, social circle, interests, photos, GPS coordinates, etc) that aren't collected and sent to a private corporation just by having a driver's license.
Maybe make it a requirement to identify yourself with a drivers or voter ID to signup for major social platforms
Privacy issues aside, this just makes accessing information harder for people. I didn't have any valid form of government ID for years because I was too poor and too far from the nearest DMV, and this issue has only grown as voter suppression tactics have been used to make getting an ID harder in many areas.
There's also an argument to be made about how restricting minors from accessing social media restricts their access to information. As awful as it is, social media is used to disseminate a ton of relevant community information. There are plenty of businesses whose online presence is just Facebook pages, plenty of events that are only announced through social media, politicians post on it, police stations post updates about crimes in the area on it, news agencies and reporters disseminate info on it, local community groups organize in it. a 15 year old has just as much of a right to access that information as you or I do.
🐝 Addison · 2023-08-20 at 04:21:
I generally agree with you, not to mention the fact that these products funnel information about your family and your children straight into the hands of data brokers.
☕️ Morgan · 2023-08-20 at 08:16:
For us it was easy enough to do this in a way we like: once a kid is old enough / responsible enough to roam, they get a phone so they can call us if they need to. Dumb phone first because this likely happens before they are old enough to use a smart phone without hitting all the bad parts.
This is pretty great as it means they can do more on their own terms.
No active tracking by us.
As with a lot of recent tech, it's all about how you choose to use it :)
Re: social media, our kids are not nearly old enough that we'd let them post; that comes much later. (By my preference, not at all, but I guess they get to choose at some point!) Of course, we talk about why this is.
🛞 Troler · 2023-08-20 at 08:45:
Why not teach kids how to make websites and once they are old enough allow them to host it on Gemini or Neocities?
🚀 stack · 2023-08-31 at 00:49:
Being a latchkey kid, I am often amused by the sea change that happened during my lifetime. For a while there were all those 'babyproofing' stores with locks and soft pads for every corner of your apartment. Heh. Now with tracked phones, kids get no chance to make little mistakes, but can easily make large ones (being exposed to the Net)...
I don't know why our society is obsessed with the idea that "teaching" is a requirement. Children are entirely capable of learning autonomously with a little help and an occasional nudge in the right direction. We have generations of validation seekers who can't wipe their ass without a certificate and words of approval.
Probably true. You want to "teach" children and I want to learn from them.