šŸ’¾ Archived View for circadian.gemlog.org ā€ŗ 2023-08-11-french.gmi captured on 2024-05-10 at 10:34:52. Gemini links have been rewritten to link to archived content

View Raw

More Information

ā¬…ļø Previous capture (2024-03-21)

āž”ļø Next capture (2024-05-12)

šŸš§ View Differences

-=-=-=-=-=-=-

French

Iā€™ve been learning French, for the best reason there is to learn a language: I now live in a French-speaking region.

Itā€™s not the first time Iā€™ve encountered the language, having taken French for three years in school. But, the lessons were hardly inspiring, and I came away with a grim view of French as unnecessarily confusing and complicated.

Since then Iā€™ve changed a lot: Iā€™ve lived fifteen years outside my home country, learned German to conversational level, and even learned a fair amount of Mandarin Chinese more or less for fun. So the second time around French looked very different.

Politeness

I like French. I really like it.

I think part of this is because of the language itself, and part is because of how I got here.

I spoke English first, and in English itā€™s the words coming from French that are considered more sophisticated, more polite. So to the English ear, French already sounds refined.

Then I learned German. English and German also have a lot of overlap; but itā€™s very much in the direct, robust part of English. The German language can perfectly well be subtle and poeticā€”but it does have a harsh edge to it by default.

And then Mandarin, which is a wonderfully logical language. The complex writing system forces a simple grammar, and the tonal pronunciation allows each syllable to carry a lot of information; far more than English or German it is logical, decomposable and minimal.

Then to French. Learning French has been refreshing. Itā€™s less direct, more politeā€”to my ears!ā€”than the three others I know. For example...

Address Problems

About my biggest gripe with Englishā€”and I havenā€™t many, itā€™s a wonderful languageā€”is that there is no good way for an adult to address another adult whose name they do not know.

I canā€™t call another man ā€œMisterā€; thatā€™s somehow insulting. And ā€œSirā€ is all wrong. Where Iā€™m from, you can use ā€œmateā€, as in, "ā€™scuse me mate, is this bag yours?" But that doesnā€™t fit with the rest of how I speak.

As a man addressing a women itā€™s worse: definitely not ā€œMadamā€, the best available is ā€œMissā€, which is how we used to address our teachers in high school. Awful, awful.

What do we have in French?

ā€œMadameā€ and ā€œMonsieurā€, which can be translated as ā€œmy Ladyā€ and ā€œmy Lordā€. Extremely polite, in most languages insultingly so; but here, available and recommended for every day use.

I was very pleased to find that to address a mixed-gender group you can say ā€œMessieurs-damesā€ which translates as ā€œmy Lords and Ladiesā€.

It makes me deeply happy that I can smile and thank someone here with a genuine ā€œmerci Madameā€ or ā€œmerci Monsieurā€. There is nothing remotely patronizing or insulting about it; itā€™s polite, pure, plain and simple.

Wrapup

Itā€™s been two years and my French is still pretty bad, but I look forward to years of slow progress until Iā€™m eventually reasonably fluent.

And unfailingly polite.

Contrapositive

Amusingly, while the language allows great politeness it seems the French culture, as far as I can make out so far, allows for more swearing than my own English background.

For example: at an eye doc appointment recently the technician was fighting computer problems, and there was a steady stream of ā€œputainā€ fully audible; which literally means ā€œwhoreā€ but is functionally equivalent to saying ā€œfuck!" in English.

Somehow this seems to fitā€”and again, Iā€™m pretty new here, so please donā€™t take this as definitiveā€”with a general approach of taking life less seriously. I find it suits me well.

By the way, if you think ā€œwhoreā€ as a swear-word is unpleasantā€”and Iā€™ll readily agree, no argument there, swear words are by their nature often unpleasantā€”hereā€™s one from Swiss German: ā€œdas isch huere geilā€ translates as ā€œthatā€™s fucking awesomeā€, but the literal translation is ... ā€œthat is whore horny/sexyā€. Itā€™s a real phrase that people useā€”Iā€™ve heard it. But Iā€™m not judging, language is taughtā€”we donā€™t get to choose. I guess there are some corners of English that could use some work, too. Speaking of which...

Gender

Mandarin has the neat feature that ā€œheā€ ā€œsheā€ and ā€œitā€ all have the exact same pronunciation, ā€œta1ā€, where tone 1 is ā€œhigh and levelā€. They are written differentlyā€”a different symbolā€”so you can be precise when writing.

I wonder how this affects the discussion about gender and pronouns.

Checking on this just now, I discovered something I did not know that I find absolutely fascinating:

When the New Culture Movement took place in China in the 1910s and 1920s, scholars were translating literature into Chinese to promote the incorporation of Western ideals like democracy and science into Chinese culture. But these scholars found it difficult to translate she/her into Chinese. Thus, tā 儹 was created using the female radical 儳 (a radical is a basic graphical component of a Chinese character that imparts linguistic meaning). The invention was met with some initial backlash, but gradually it has become widely accepted as part of the standardized written Mandarin system.

So in fact Chinese simply did not have the ā€œhe/sheā€ distinction until it learned it from the West. Before that, the word for ā€œheā€ was neutralā€”the symbol just indicates a personā€”but the addition of an explicitly female symbol made the neutral one implicitly male.

What can I say? Sorry about that; our bad.

Really Wrapup

Language is a fun topic, Iā€™m sure Iā€™ll post more about it.

Feedback šŸ“®

šŸ‘ Thanks!

šŸ‘Ž Not for me.

šŸ¤· No opinion.

Comments.

So far today, 2024-05-10, no feedback has been received.

   ā€”ā€”ā€”
 /     \   i a
| C   a \ D   n |
   irc   \     /
           ā€”ā€”ā€”