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Hello all, Mid-September, Im doing an introductory presentation (~ 1 hour), as part of Sofware Freedom Day - at HSBXL, Brussels. ALL WELCOME. => https://hsbxl.be/events/software-freedom-day/2021-09-18/ I shall start writing it soon, replete with (reusable) Tikz diagrams and discourse on edge cases to mitigate/mess with protocol expectations.
Hi Jonathan, TOFU Cert Validation for some reason took me a second to get (maybe I'm just not smart). Since the talk is introductory, if your presentation goes into some detail, it might be worth explaining how that works in contrast with more common certificate validation methods. This isn't strictly part of the protocol but it is an important bit of information when implementing your own client and server and also when discussing how Gemini is more distributed than the WWW. I'm looking forward to the presentation! Andrew Thorp
Hi Andrew, Thanks for your suggestion, Ill double down on TOFU. Its a key area, as it shows points of consideration (nobody wants to find out after the fact that what they started was inappropriate). IMHO, the more I am obligated to consider real expectations the more I can crowd out my more irreverent tendencies (ta!). Additionally the talk will be recorded (as well as other presenters). Jonathan Andrew Thorp <andrew.thorp.dev@gmail.com> writes: > Hi Jonathan, > > TOFU Cert Validation for some reason took me a second to get (maybe > I'm just not smart). > Since the talk is introductory, if your presentation goes into some > detail, it might be worth explaining > how that works in contrast with more common certificate validation > methods. This isn't strictly part > of the protocol but it is an important bit of information when > implementing your own client and server > and also when discussing how Gemini is more distributed than the WWW. > > I'm looking forward to the presentation! > > Andrew Thorp
Unsure if this is something that will fit your tone or presentation length, but an explanation on Gemini as supplementary protocol rather than 'well why not refit the search query so you can use that to make a message board/chatroom/etc' or 'how about we add *thing*?' Arguments could be made for an expansion of Gemini, but the point of Gemini is this is literally all it does or really should do. Video streaming, shopping/banking, hat, message boards, etc are problems other protocols can solve and more power for people who come up with lean solutions for each (though I suspect shopping/banking won't ever change as you need institutional backing to roll those out.) For a time I grumbled st the lack of Gemini content on YouTube or odessy and couldn't understand why. Thing is Everything that strictly needed saying already had been along with the fact Gemini itself is exceedingly niche. Sure I would love more people talking about it, but at the same time? What else is there to say? Maybe going into what people can do server side?
I definitely think this should inform the way Gemini is introduced. More generally, you'll want to pre-empt all the usual questions like "wouldn't it be better if Gemini had X feature" or "how is this protocol supposed to replace the web". Personally I would be careful to avoid words like "replacement" or "alternative" when describing Gemini; in fact, I would try to minimise direct comparisons to the web to the extent possible. From what I've seen on places like Reddit or HN, confusion about Gemini's purpose seems to be the main source of negative feedback so trying to address that in your talk might be an effective way to get more people interested. On 31/08/2021 16:26, Andrew Singleton wrote: > Unsure if this is something that will fit your tone or presentation length, but an explanation on Gemini as supplementary protocol rather than 'well why not refit the search query so you can use that to make a message board/chatroom/etc' or 'how about we add *thing*?' > > Arguments could be made for an expansion of Gemini, but the point of Gemini is this is literally all it does or really should do. Video streaming, shopping/banking, hat, message boards, etc are problems other protocols can solve and more power for people who come up with lean solutions for each (though I suspect shopping/banking won't ever change as you need institutional backing to roll those out.) > > For a time I grumbled st the lack of Gemini content on YouTube or odessy and couldn't understand why. Thing is Everything that strictly needed saying already had been along with the fact Gemini itself is exceedingly niche. Sure I would love more people talking about it, but at the same time? What else is there to say? > > Maybe going into what people can do server side?
Hi Alan, Thanks for that concern. One of my challenges as a presenter are that many of Gemini's justifications are already clearly provided in a succinct way (The protocol even states its not a replacement nor HTTP)- I want to be creative without repeating others (though Id make an excellent text to speech bot...) For me visualising these concepts (and providing the coding for reuse) would be helpful, in order to build on the concept(s) would be a win if the talk bombs. I enjoy using analogies and consider the 'Gemini spacecraft' one to be an excellent (though I consider it to represent the 'software', rather than the 'freedom' aspect more perfectly). I am keen to suggest a freedom analogy on terms of the Retford pilgrims who made it across the Atlantic (on the Mayflower) - Here goes a rough concept: Why did they go with less?: Previously, vistors of the American shores were usually a consequence of serendipity, privateers and plunderers. Many sailors were Zuckerberg'd onto ships, having been plied with drink the night before. The bureaucratic reach of two distance dioceses started applying pressure on them to conform - they chose risk, toil and suffering - all for what, freedom?
Hi Andrew, I find the frontier of Gemini interesting in itself. Naturally, its worth emphasizing heavily the core, offified concepts and expectations. With that, my normative opinion is that the simplicity, terseness, and accessibility can provide a very interesting range of bespoke usecases and activity - including cottage industries. The community is full of people who like using niche, minimalist tools, as well as testing limitations. If I can go through some old posts for aposite quotes then hopefully the (openminded) Software Freedom Day audience will make their own opinions. ==================== Jonathan McHugh indieterminacy@libre.brussels August 31, 2021 3:26 PM, "Andrew Singleton" <singletona082@gmail.com> wrote: > Unsure if this is something that will fit your tone or presentation length, but an explanation on > Gemini as supplementary protocol rather than 'well why not refit the search query so you can use > that to make a message board/chatroom/etc' or 'how about we add *thing*?' > > Arguments could be made for an expansion of Gemini, but the point of Gemini is this is literally > all it does or really should do. Video streaming, shopping/banking, hat, message boards, etc are > problems other protocols can solve and more power for people who come up with lean solutions for > each (though I suspect shopping/banking won't ever change as you need institutional backing to roll > those out.) > > For a time I grumbled st the lack of Gemini content on YouTube or odessy and couldn't understand > why. Thing is Everything that strictly needed saying already had been along with the fact Gemini > itself is exceedingly niche. Sure I would love more people talking about it, but at the same time? > What else is there to say? > > Maybe going into what people can do server side?
I would suggest watching a few of Jason Scott's talks since he has a more human element to his talks and less raw strict technical talking points (which is why I find his talks interesting.) > Hi Andrew, I find the frontier of Gemini interesting in itself. Naturally, its worth emphasizing heavily the core, offified concepts and expectations. With that, my normative opinion is that the simplicity, terseness, and accessibility can provide a very interesting range of bespoke usecases and activity - including cottage industries. The community is full of people who like using niche, minimalist tools, as well as testing limitations. If I can go through some old posts for aposite quotes then hopefully the (openminded) Software Freedom Day audience will make their own opinions. ====================
Thanks, am I to assume that he did the Def Con talks (he has a very generic name)? ==================== Jonathan McHugh indieterminacy@libre.brussels August 31, 2021 4:48 PM, "Andrew Singleton" <singletona082@gmail.com> wrote: > I would suggest watching a few of Jason Scott's talks since he has a > more human element to his talks and less raw strict technical talking > points (which is why I find his talks interesting.) > >> Hi Andrew, I find the frontier of Gemini interesting in itself. Naturally, its worth emphasizing >> heavily the core, offified concepts and expectations. With that, my normative opinion is that the >> simplicity, terseness, and accessibility can provide a very interesting range of bespoke usecases >> and activity - including cottage industries. The community is full of people who like using niche, >> minimalist tools, as well as testing limitations. If I can go through some old posts for aposite >> quotes then hopefully the (openminded) Software Freedom Day audience will make their own opinions. >> ====================
https://youtu.be/fYI_XtT7sgQ That guy. Aug 31, 2021 12:06:39 PM Jonathan McHugh <indieterminacy@libre.brussels>: > Thanks, am I to assume that he did the Def Con talks (he has a very generic name)? > > ==================== > Jonathan McHugh > indieterminacy@libre.brussels > > August 31, 2021 4:48 PM, "Andrew Singleton" <singletona082@gmail.com> wrote: > >> I would suggest watching a few of Jason Scott's talks since he has a >> more human element to his talks and less raw strict technical talking >> points (which is why I find his talks interesting.) >> >>> Hi Andrew, I find the frontier of Gemini interesting in itself. Naturally, its worth emphasizing >>> heavily the core, offified concepts and expectations. With that, my normative opinion is that the >>> simplicity, terseness, and accessibility can provide a very interesting range of bespoke usecases >>> and activity - including cottage industries. The community is full of people who like using niche, >>> minimalist tools, as well as testing limitations. If I can go through some old posts for aposite >>> quotes then hopefully the (openminded) Software Freedom Day audience will make their own opinions. >>> ====================
On Tue, Aug 31, 2021 at 03:26:07PM +0000, Andrew Singleton wrote: > Unsure if this is something that will fit your tone or presentation length, but an explanation on Gemini as supplementary protocol rather than 'well why not refit the search query so you can use that to make a message board/chatroom/etc' or 'how about we add *thing*?' > > Arguments could be made for an expansion of Gemini, but the point of Gemini is this is literally all it does or really should do. Video streaming, shopping/banking, hat, message boards, etc are problems other protocols can solve and more power for people who come up with lean solutions for each (though I suspect shopping/banking won't ever change as you need institutional backing to roll those out.) It should be possible in principle to do cryptocurrency purchases over Gemini, although you'd be in practice limited to blockchains that can consistently confirm a transaction in under ~30s to not break the browser flow, and it would be a bad case of "this page best viewed in" thanks to people wanting inline image previews for their shopping experience. I agree that without a major payment processor offering official support, fiat currency and slow-blockchain (BTC, ETH, etc.) payments are unlikely to work on Gemini. -- tidux@sdf.org SDF Public Access UNIX System - http://sdf.org
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