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💾 Archived View for gemini.ctrl-c.club › ~phoebos › logs › kisslinux-2024-01-12.txt captured on 2024-03-21 at 15:45:34.
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[2024-01-12T10:02:15Z] <sewn> bye midfavila
[2024-01-12T10:54:06Z] <ehawkvu> Was thinking that we should have a collective spec for KISS, since we have multiple people now working on forks of the package manager
[2024-01-12T10:54:23Z] <ehawkvu> Here's my initial draft (in TeX): https://0x0.st/HI7A.hTjBKAOu
[2024-01-12T10:55:30Z] <ehawkvu> I think it'd be a nice document to have for the community, and can serve as a nice, consolidated way to store our design decisions
[2024-01-12T10:55:41Z] <ehawkvu> let me know what yall think !
[2024-01-12T11:10:47Z] <raph_ael> is kiss still enough maintained ?
[2024-01-12T13:58:21Z] <sewn> raph_ael: sure it is
[2024-01-12T13:59:13Z] <sewn> testuser[m]: phoebos: look at the cool draft
[2024-01-12T14:00:18Z] <raph_ael> sewn: ok thanks
[2024-01-12T14:00:33Z] <sewn> ehawkvu`: does the spec cover proposals in kiss?
[2024-01-12T14:00:36Z] <sewn> like provides and such
[2024-01-12T16:39:23Z] <phoebos> ehawkvu`: nice work
[2024-01-12T16:39:42Z] <phoebos> I wrote something similar in https://codeberg.org/kiss-community/kiss/pulls/112 but from the point of view of documentation rather than specification
[2024-01-12T16:41:28Z] <phoebos> a KISS.8 might discuss system requirements
[2024-01-12T16:54:06Z] <riteo> ehawkvu`: wasn't there already a spec?
[2024-01-12T16:54:18Z] <riteo> like, on the website?
[2024-01-12T16:54:36Z] <riteo> https://kisslinux.org/wiki/package-system
[2024-01-12T16:54:41Z] <riteo> unless that's too amgiguous
[2024-01-12T16:54:59Z] <riteo> also, https://kisslinux.org/wiki/package-manager has some other stuff that you put there
[2024-01-12T16:55:38Z] <riteo> the spec for the package format is like extremely dumb AFAIK, especially after the version placeholder and envvar removal, IIRC
[2024-01-12T16:57:52Z] <riteo> anyways, there's a typo at the description of KISS_KEEPLOG. It's truncated there.
[2024-01-12T16:59:09Z] <riteo> heheh, why the godot build file example? :D
[2024-01-12T17:22:33Z] <phoebos> there's also the queue-status hook name problem
[2024-01-12T17:22:44Z] <phoebos> hm I thought I did a PR for that
[2024-01-12T17:25:25Z] <phoebos> oh only to kisslinux/kiss
[2024-01-12T17:31:13Z] <phoebos> https://codeberg.org/kiss-community/kiss/pulls/127
[2024-01-12T19:55:31Z] <ehawkvu`> riteo: this spec will also cover some of the internal workings of kiss (like giving a diagram of when/where the hooks are called, etc) which the website doesn't yet do. 
[2024-01-12T19:56:50Z] <ehawkvu`> phoebos: I totally forgot that you had worked on the man pages! I wonder if there is a way to reuse the work that you did on those here as well
[2024-01-12T19:57:33Z] <ehawkvu`> sewn:  it doesn't yet cover the proposals, but if this were to have it's own repo in kiss-community, we could make proposals a formal part of the document over there.
[2024-01-12T20:28:34Z] <angle> hey, does anyone have a copy of the kiss chroot they could croc over to me while codeberg is down?
[2024-01-12T20:36:50Z] <sewn> angle: tell me why the universe decided you install kiss at this particular time
[2024-01-12T20:37:23Z] <angle> lol, I'm snowed in, and the last time I tried to install it, it went horribly.
[2024-01-12T20:37:33Z] <sewn> what does snowed in mean
[2024-01-12T20:37:52Z] <angle> like my house is surrounded by snow, so I can't leave to go anywhere.
[2024-01-12T20:38:54Z] <angle> I cleared out 50GB of storage on my ssd, and I tried to look for my old chroot from when I first tried to install it, but I guess I deleted it.
[2024-01-12T21:39:48Z] <phoebos> raph_ael: I'd love to make a kiss release but ideally people finish removing VERSION markers and adding explicit DESTDIR :v (testuser, sewn, ioraff, asimovsh)
[2024-01-12T21:40:35Z] <sewn> I will never understand why these are removed
[2024-01-12T21:41:21Z] <phoebos> also then we can get back on repology
[2024-01-12T21:41:53Z] <ehawkvu`> angle: here's a rootfs that I just built w/ mkrootfs ~ https://0x0.st/HlAk.1CXd8KLl
[2024-01-12T21:42:11Z] <phoebos> sewn: it was a controversial addition
[2024-01-12T21:42:23Z] <sewn> phoebos: you mean removal :p
[2024-01-12T21:42:37Z] <phoebos> well no, we voted for the removal
[2024-01-12T21:42:52Z] <sewn> ah
[2024-01-12T21:43:03Z] <ehawkvu`> sewn: it also is something that can be achieved through other means 
[2024-01-12T21:43:06Z] <sewn> what was Dylan's stance at the time?
[2024-01-12T21:43:16Z] <ehawkvu`> Dylan was the one who added
[2024-01-12T21:43:43Z] <sewn> ehawkvu`: yeah but I'm not willing to have one line in a few hundred packages if I can have one in kiss, and removing the version markers well idk
[2024-01-12T21:44:08Z] <ehawkvu`> sewn:  I didn't vote for the removal fwiw
[2024-01-12T21:44:13Z] <sewn> I think that it would be a lot easier to bump packages using version markers, but it was removed anyway
[2024-01-12T21:44:26Z] <ehawkvu`> sewn:  I agree
[2024-01-12T21:44:34Z] <sewn> all I know is they were removed because 'i need to download it manually'
[2024-01-12T21:44:45Z] <sewn> and destdir because of like one package afaik
[2024-01-12T21:45:08Z] <sewn> I don't follow discussions too much tbh 
[2024-01-12T21:45:44Z] <ehawkvu`> I think the logic behind removing DESTDIR was that it hides behavior
[2024-01-12T21:46:20Z] <ehawkvu`> explicit > implicit, even when more verbose
[2024-01-12T21:46:29Z] <ehawkvu`> is essentially the reasoning
[2024-01-12T21:47:34Z] <ehawkvu`> phoebos: would you mind if I made a repo up on codeberg for the spec file?
[2024-01-12T21:48:06Z] <sewn> ehawkvu`: yeah that makes a lot of sense
[2024-01-12T21:48:21Z] <sewn> what about the rest of the environment variables?
[2024-01-12T21:48:45Z] <sewn> for rust, go. imagine setting compiler! must be explicit
[2024-01-12T21:48:48Z] <phoebos> ehawkvu`: I'm not sure I understand what you want to do with it, apart from collating information from across codeberg issues and the source code?
[2024-01-12T21:48:50Z] <ehawkvu`> I think the other env variables should remain since they prevent weird build issues
[2024-01-12T21:50:20Z] <ehawkvu`> phoebos: I'd like to have a reference for the expected behavior - also if we ever decide to fully switch over to a C version, it can describe what symbols are expected in a hypothetical library
[2024-01-12T21:51:19Z] <sewn> hmph
[2024-01-12T21:57:39Z] <phoebos> I feel like defining a libkiss interface is rather optimistic
[2024-01-12T21:58:01Z] <phoebos> but I don't want to dampen your enthusiasm
[2024-01-12T21:59:14Z] <sewn> libkiss? I thought kiss was simple 
[2024-01-12T21:59:57Z] <sewn> if it's simple all it needs is a smol cute specification and a simple primary implementation 
[2024-01-12T22:00:11Z] <phoebos> $/kiss-community is certainly a collection for the community but this sounds more like a personal project
[2024-01-12T22:13:08Z] <angle> ehawkvu`: Can you explain what the difference is between your rootfs and the one I'm supposed to download here? codeberg.org/kiss-community/repo/releases
[2024-01-12T22:13:48Z] <ehawkvu`> I built it with https://github.com/kiss-community/mkrootfs using a fresh chroot
[2024-01-12T22:13:56Z] <ehawkvu`> So the packages will be more up to date
[2024-01-12T22:15:21Z] <angle> Ah cool. Will I need to fix the bug on the latest release with busybox-suid?
[2024-01-12T22:16:06Z] <ehawkvu`> I don't believe so 
[2024-01-12T22:16:29Z] <angle> awesome. I'll do my best to get started then.
[2024-01-12T22:17:03Z] <angle> I have a question regarding booting though cause that's where my install went wrong the last time I tried to install kiss.
[2024-01-12T22:17:54Z] <ehawkvu`> I would ask other people here if you need help w/ an initramfs, as I have yet to get tinyramfs to be able to boot my laptop
[2024-01-12T22:18:08Z] <ehawkvu`> I just bake in every module
[2024-01-12T22:18:12Z] <angle> do I not need a mini 100 mb boot partition that's vfat to boot my system like I usually do with installing arch?
[2024-01-12T22:18:40Z] <angle> I couldn't get booting to work last time I installed it. Didn't show up as a bootable device or anything.
[2024-01-12T22:18:40Z] <ehawkvu`> You'll need an EFI partition, but not a boot partition unless if you are encrypting your root
[2024-01-12T22:19:25Z] <angle> I won't do that this time.
[2024-01-12T22:20:21Z] <phoebos> angle: I'm pretty rubbish at this stuff, but https://kisscommunity.bvnf.space/storage/disks/ might help you.
[2024-01-12T22:20:32Z] <angle> But I can just use ext4 for my fs and be fine? as long as I put in the correct grub commands and have efibootmgr installed, it'll automatically make the boot efi stuff?
[2024-01-12T22:22:55Z] <angle> thanks phoebos. I'll read before I start this time.