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💾 Archived View for gemini.ctrl-c.club › ~phoebos › logs › kisslinux-2022-12-25.txt captured on 2024-03-21 at 15:51:23.
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[2022-12-25T01:53:00Z] <asdfhjkl> Anyone know why upstream sources don't provide Configure files for most gnu projects?
[2022-12-25T01:53:13Z] <asdfhjkl> Makes it so that we have to rely on their tarball releases to build
[2022-12-25T01:54:19Z] <asdfhjkl> Git sources I'm referring to particularly
[2022-12-25T01:55:05Z] <midfavila> if it's git it's probably because it's expected that only people with a proper development toolchain are pulling from there
[2022-12-25T01:55:25Z] <midfavila> no point in including a configure script if the only people you expect to clone the repo will have autotools
[2022-12-25T01:56:06Z] <asdfhjkl> It's throwing a monkey wrench in my project
[2022-12-25T01:56:29Z] <asdfhjkl> that and they're expecting you to clone git submodules too when building from source for some things
[2022-12-25T02:09:42Z] <asdfhjkl> yea
[2022-12-25T02:12:17Z] <asdfhjkl> going to have to include autohell
[2022-12-25T02:14:37Z] <phoebos> asdfhjkl: what's wrong with a tarball cache?
[2022-12-25T02:15:00Z] <asdfhjkl> my project entails including all sources from git via unified git server direct from upstream sources
[2022-12-25T02:15:32Z] <asdfhjkl> i dont want to depend on gnu devs with autohell installed to be able to build their source
[2022-12-25T02:15:40Z] <asdfhjkl> what if they died or the internet went black or both
[2022-12-25T02:16:00Z] <dilynm> Then... You'd have to use autotools...
[2022-12-25T02:16:14Z] <asdfhjkl> yea that's what i just said
[2022-12-25T02:16:18Z] <asdfhjkl> > going to have to include autohell
[2022-12-25T02:16:52Z] <asdfhjkl> i want all sources, for everything, buildable, from my own mirror server
[2022-12-25T02:17:12Z] <asdfhjkl> that's the project. kiss linux + everything it takes to bootstrap kiss linux from git sources purely
[2022-12-25T02:23:54Z] <asdfhjkl> any reason https://github.com/kiss-community/openssl is still on github
[2022-12-25T02:24:13Z] <asdfhjkl> just caught that in the openssl sources, thought i'd mention it
[2022-12-25T02:28:00Z] <phoebos> > direct from upstream sources
[2022-12-25T02:28:14Z] <phoebos> if upstream goes down, you're left with a snapshot
[2022-12-25T02:28:41Z] <phoebos> just like if "gnu devs" stop making tarballs, you're left with a tarball
[2022-12-25T02:29:52Z] <phoebos> so why prefer git?
[2022-12-25T02:30:30Z] <asdfhjkl> and if the net goes down, and you dont have autotools, lol
[2022-12-25T02:31:28Z] <asdfhjkl> idk maybe you can keep on keeping on with the current generated Configure / makefiles etc from the tarball
[2022-12-25T02:31:41Z] <asdfhjkl> I'm trying to get everything. everything. all in one spot.
[2022-12-25T02:32:00Z] <asdfhjkl> including commit history, all the jazz
[2022-12-25T02:32:03Z] <phoebos> what do tarballs lack from "everything"
[2022-12-25T02:32:05Z] <phoebos> ah
[2022-12-25T02:32:17Z] <phoebos> well, if you want.
[2022-12-25T02:32:20Z] <asdfhjkl> imagine if covid was actually deadly
[2022-12-25T02:32:29Z] <phoebos> not much good for building stuff though
[2022-12-25T02:32:31Z] <asdfhjkl> or if the jab actually does kill a large portion of the devs
[2022-12-25T02:32:47Z] <asdfhjkl> or if WW3 goes down and blackouts around the world are happening
[2022-12-25T02:32:53Z] <asdfhjkl> and you want a distro that just has it all in one place
[2022-12-25T02:33:03Z] <asdfhjkl> and you want to build mesh networks and help your community communicate
[2022-12-25T02:33:05Z] <asdfhjkl> things like that
[2022-12-25T02:33:08Z] <asdfhjkl> really doomer scenario distro
[2022-12-25T02:33:31Z] <midfavila> if you're doing that you don't want to be using fucking gahnoonix
[2022-12-25T02:33:45Z] <midfavila> or a modern pc if you can help it
[2022-12-25T02:33:54Z] <phoebos> in this situation, you want to read... commit logs?
[2022-12-25T02:33:54Z] <midfavila> if you want a doomer OS look at collapse or duskos
[2022-12-25T02:34:01Z] <asdfhjkl> links please :)
[2022-12-25T02:34:14Z] <midfavila> https://sr.ht/~vdupras/duskos/
[2022-12-25T02:34:15Z] <phoebos> http://collapseos.org
[2022-12-25T02:36:15Z] <asdfhjkl> hmm, interesting stuff, bookmarked for sure thanks
[2022-12-25T02:36:42Z] <asdfhjkl> furthermore though I want a daily driver. I'm learning as I go things, too. I enjoyed my time at kiss a couple years ago and this is fun building out my version of it in a chroot
[2022-12-25T02:36:49Z] <asdfhjkl> let's see how far I get
[2022-12-25T03:04:26Z] <midfavila> how is http://wiby.me so unbelievably comfy
[2022-12-25T03:05:02Z] <midfavila> i can like, reliably get good results that are almost exclusively from smaller sites
[2022-12-25T03:06:10Z] <asdfhjkl> Sick
[2022-12-25T03:06:13Z] <asdfhjkl> Bookmarking!
[2022-12-25T03:06:40Z] <midfavila> i've been using it as my primary search engine for a while
[2022-12-25T03:07:08Z] <midfavila> these days i only use duckduckgo when i'm looking for something either obscenely obscure or normie-tier
[2022-12-25T03:08:00Z] <asdfhjkl> Yeah this fits in to my projects self hosting stuff at https://asdfhjkl.xyz
[2022-12-25T03:08:32Z] <midfavila> pls consider offering your site over http or gopher
[2022-12-25T03:08:34Z] <asdfhjkl> I have so far mail, matrix, nextcloud, git
[2022-12-25T03:08:44Z] <testuser[m]> Hi
[2022-12-25T03:08:48Z] <asdfhjkl> gopher!! yeaaaah I want to do that
[2022-12-25T03:08:52Z] <midfavila> mandatory tls for content that doesn't absolutely require security is really gross
[2022-12-25T03:09:38Z] <asdfhjkl> Yea, most everything it links to requires security, i'm actually looking in to being my own CA too tho with my kiss fork
[2022-12-25T03:10:03Z] <asdfhjkl> hang on i'll modify the nginx and see if I can get you an http link
[2022-12-25T03:10:53Z] <midfavila> i wish links was structured in a more clean fashion
[2022-12-25T03:11:03Z] <midfavila> every time i look at patching it to use libtls i just want to die
[2022-12-25T03:15:39Z] <midfavila> http://www.madore.org/~david/computers/netwars.html
[2022-12-25T03:15:41Z] <midfavila> a classic
[2022-12-25T03:15:43Z] <illiliti> mandatory tls is good cuz mitm
[2022-12-25T03:16:30Z] <midfavila> overrated threat
[2022-12-25T03:17:01Z] <midfavila> if you're concerned about mitm then use the optional tls provided by sane sites
[2022-12-25T03:17:09Z] <illiliti> i know isp that inject ads into unencrypted http connections
[2022-12-25T03:17:20Z] <midfavila> yeah so use https if you use a trash isp
[2022-12-25T03:17:34Z] <asdfhjkl> Here you go http://asdfhjkl.xyz
[2022-12-25T03:17:38Z] <midfavila> based
[2022-12-25T03:17:38Z] <midfavila> tyvm
[2022-12-25T03:17:52Z] <asdfhjkl> The rest of my services auto rewrite but i just did that for you lol
[2022-12-25T03:18:09Z] <asdfhjkl> nah my ISP dont know shit because what happens is my traffic hits a tiny little VPS in a datacenter in texas
[2022-12-25T03:18:16Z] <asdfhjkl> wireguard routes it to my computers at home from there
[2022-12-25T03:18:28Z] <asdfhjkl> so my whole stack is here at home other than the wireguard
[2022-12-25T03:38:09Z] <Torr> asdfhjkl: Why did u skip the "g" for your username?
[2022-12-25T04:16:21Z] <asdfhjkl> asdf hjkl is the home, hjkl is also the vim keys, and asdf is a common lisp thing
[2022-12-25T04:16:32Z] <asdfhjkl> home row*
[2022-12-25T04:17:30Z] <asdfhjkl> ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
[2022-12-25T04:34:15Z] <Torr> Is that so
[2022-12-25T04:34:45Z] <wael_> Hi
[2022-12-25T04:35:59Z] <asdfhjkl> Hi
[2022-12-25T04:36:27Z] <asdfhjkl> Anyone know if the version file suports numbering+lettering. I have a package that does that.
[2022-12-25T04:36:27Z] <asdfhjkl> e.g. 1.2a 1.2b
[2022-12-25T04:51:02Z] <illiliti> it supports any string
[2022-12-25T04:51:49Z] <asdfhjkl> k
[2022-12-25T04:58:11Z] <Torr> > any string
[2022-12-25T04:59:21Z] <Torr> $ cat version
[2022-12-25T04:59:22Z] <Torr> Mighty_Banana
[2022-12-25T05:01:33Z] <Torr> $ cd ../kernel
[2022-12-25T05:01:40Z] <asdfhjkl> lmao autoconf and automake require themselves to build themselves from source
[2022-12-25T05:01:41Z] <Torr> $ cat version
[2022-12-25T05:01:45Z] <Torr> BIG_KURWA
[2022-12-25T05:13:26Z] <wael_> Torr: you forgot the revision
[2022-12-25T05:16:38Z] <Torr> Truly
[2022-12-25T05:17:03Z] <Torr> Think I'll sleep.
[2022-12-25T05:17:36Z] <Torr> See ya folks
[2022-12-25T12:11:28Z] <phoebos> season's greetings, #kisslinux
[2022-12-25T12:19:04Z] <wael_> hi phoebos
[2022-12-25T13:08:53Z] <wael_> thoughts on LTO & PGO?
[2022-12-25T13:27:29Z] <testuser[m]> useless
[2022-12-25T13:27:41Z] <testuser[m]> unless very large program like ff chromium linux
[2022-12-25T13:27:59Z] <testuser[m]> or something like ffmpeg or video codecs
[2022-12-25T13:43:29Z] <wael[m]> linux requires clang to build with lto
[2022-12-25T13:43:32Z] <wael[m]> how do i do it with firefox
[2022-12-25T13:43:46Z] <wael_> wht about gcc
[2022-12-25T13:45:39Z] <testuser[m]> no
[2022-12-25T13:45:56Z] <testuser[m]> extra time for compilng with pgo is more than time savings of a year
[2022-12-25T13:46:04Z] <testuser[m]> With  more optimized gcc
[2022-12-25T13:47:07Z] <wael[m]> with ffmpeg wouldnt that need lto gcc or just some configure option
[2022-12-25T14:22:28Z] <saturn[m]> hi wael
[2022-12-25T14:22:35Z] <wael_> hi saturn[m]
[2022-12-25T14:22:41Z] <wael[m]> hi saturn
[2022-12-25T14:22:49Z] <wael[m]> bye saturn
[2022-12-25T14:23:07Z] <saturn[m]> hi wael(s)
[2022-12-25T14:23:39Z] <saturn[m]> now it’s just one
[2022-12-25T14:23:43Z] <wael_> im the real wael
[2022-12-25T14:23:51Z] <saturn[m]> what….
[2022-12-25T14:23:52Z] <wael_> that wael was a fake
[2022-12-25T14:24:50Z] <saturn[m]> oh
[2022-12-25T14:24:51Z] <saturn[m]> i cant believe it
[2022-12-25T16:04:55Z] <wael_> why would clang be a dependency of firefox if it uses gcc
[2022-12-25T16:21:34Z] <dilynm> https://i.kym-cdn.com/entries/icons/original/000/025/005/merrxmas.jpg
[2022-12-25T18:04:46Z] <midfavila> i have acquired
[2022-12-25T18:04:49Z] <midfavila> internet that doesn't suck
[2022-12-25T18:08:44Z] <wael_> hi midfavila
[2022-12-25T18:08:47Z] <wael_> congratulations midfavila
[2022-12-25T18:08:51Z] <midfavila> hello, wael
[2022-12-25T18:11:57Z] <asdfhjkl> Merry Christmas
[2022-12-25T18:12:06Z] <midfavila> woo consoomas
[2022-12-25T18:12:12Z] * midfavila flails around
[2022-12-25T18:12:44Z] <asdfhjkl> Question: how do we know when we should e.g. make DESTDIR="$1"  install vs. just make install ?
[2022-12-25T18:13:02Z] <midfavila> look at the makefile
[2022-12-25T18:13:09Z] <asdfhjkl> For what
[2022-12-25T18:13:14Z] <midfavila> if there's no install target, a manual install is necessary
[2022-12-25T18:14:39Z] <wael_> asdfhjkl: btw i believe by kiss style that DESTDIR must always be explicit anyway
[2022-12-25T18:15:02Z] <wael_> there's some packages that have different variables for the destination directory
[2022-12-25T18:15:05Z] <asdfhjkl> So no harm done then, explicitly setting it
[2022-12-25T18:17:25Z] <asdfhjkl> There are many packages in core that do not explicitly set DESTDIR in or around make install commands
[2022-12-25T18:20:33Z] <asdfhjkl> e.g. for gmp, `make DESTDIR="$1"` install
[2022-12-25T18:20:33Z] <asdfhjkl> while others like make itself, or m4, and many others, are simple `make install`
[2022-12-25T18:21:45Z] <wael_> yeah not sure about enforcing it honestly
[2022-12-25T18:23:11Z] <asdfhjkl> should DESTDIR always be $1? $1 is the staged section in .cache right, before kiss (rsyncs?) moves the package to the system?
[2022-12-25T18:24:56Z] <asdfhjkl> I'm wondering what would happen if kiss tried to make install outside of $1? I suppose that priviledge escalation would not have occured yet, right, and so you might hit permission denied errors if it is trying to make install in the wrong location?
[2022-12-25T18:28:54Z] <wael_> kiss itself sets DESTDIR
[2022-12-25T18:58:56Z] <asdfhjkl> i'm running kiss as a regular user on a package i'm working on, it builds all the way through, and before i finish the install (where kiss allows me to escalate to root and install the files...) i inspect the `proc` directory, and **everything** is still owned by my regular user. NOW, when I install, kiss is unable to cleanup proc fully, permission
[2022-12-25T18:58:56Z] <asdfhjkl> denied, then I inspect again, and it turns out that there is a random tarball directory in there, that kiss extracts while it is root, and then it tries to clean up proc as a regular user, and fails
[2022-12-25T18:59:05Z] <asdfhjkl> is this a kiss bug?
[2022-12-25T18:59:23Z] <asdfhjkl> One would think that kiss while installing as root shouldn't be extracting anything at all
[2022-12-25T20:22:44Z] <van2022> hi
[2022-12-25T20:22:46Z] <asdfhjkl> I have /home/asdf/cache/.cache/kiss/proc/646100 getting in to my manifest
[2022-12-25T20:22:48Z] <asdfhjkl> what's up with that
[2022-12-25T20:23:01Z] <asdfhjkl> hi
[2022-12-25T20:23:04Z] <asdfhjkl> Merry Christmas
[2022-12-25T20:32:23Z] <van2022> I am currently in the process of installing the system. I have interrupted my attempt to install/build the system for several weeks and don't know how to proceed properly. when I stopped I wrote "exit" and copied the contents of mnt to another folder. how to continue?
[2022-12-25T20:33:15Z] <asdfhjkl> cd in to the location the rootfs is and `bin/kiss-chroot .`
[2022-12-25T20:33:24Z] <asdfhjkl> pick up where you left off in the instructions
[2022-12-25T20:53:24Z] <van2022> asdfhjkl, I only have this termbin.com/ciuv
[2022-12-25T20:55:14Z] <asdfhjkl> Hey I have no idea what any of that is
[2022-12-25T20:55:42Z] <asdfhjkl> but if you're installing kiss i recommend following this page https://kisslinux.org/install except when it comes to cloning the various mentioned repos, get them from here: https://codeberg.org/kiss-community
[2022-12-25T21:08:35Z] <midfavila> jfc my toughbook is starting to die
[2022-12-25T21:08:50Z] <midfavila> i thought i'd found laptop mecca but no
[2022-12-25T21:34:44Z] <noocsharp> starting to die how?
[2022-12-25T21:38:38Z] <phoebos> a toughbook dying!
[2022-12-25T21:39:00Z] <phoebos> asdfhjkl: interesting. can you provide the build script and a full log
[2022-12-25T21:39:32Z] <asdfhjkl> Honestly phoebos i'm dealing with autohell packages and I don't want to bug you guys with it unless i'm pretty sure it's a kiss bug
[2022-12-25T21:40:11Z] <phoebos> we're always interested to help out :)
[2022-12-25T21:40:47Z] <asdfhjkl> at this point, i'm tracing it
[2022-12-25T21:40:48Z] <asdfhjkl> lmao
[2022-12-25T21:40:52Z] <asdfhjkl> friggin strace on kiss
[2022-12-25T21:41:26Z] <asdfhjkl> i've found that right before kiss creates the tarball, it goes and tarballs this location:
[2022-12-25T21:41:36Z] <asdfhjkl> in pkg_tar
[2022-12-25T21:41:37Z] <asdfhjkl> cd "$pkg_dir/$1"
[2022-12-25T21:41:44Z] <asdfhjkl> and it tarballs is
[2022-12-25T21:41:49Z] <asdfhjkl> so i go and look there right
[2022-12-25T21:41:52Z] <asdfhjkl> that equates to:
[2022-12-25T21:42:38Z] <asdfhjkl> /home/asdf/.cache/kiss/proc/731412/pkg/automake
[2022-12-25T21:42:48Z] <asdfhjkl> it contains my autoshit package
[2022-12-25T21:43:09Z] <asdfhjkl>  /home/asdf/.cache/kiss/proc/731412/pkg/automake/usr
[2022-12-25T21:43:12Z] <asdfhjkl>  /home/asdf/.cache/kiss/proc/731412/pkg/automake/var
[2022-12-25T21:43:16Z] <asdfhjkl> and ...
[2022-12-25T21:43:20Z] <asdfhjkl>  /home/asdf/.cache/kiss/proc/731412/pkg/automake/home !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
[2022-12-25T21:43:53Z] <asdfhjkl>  /mnt/home/asdf/.cache/kiss/proc/731412/pkg/automake/home/asdf/.cache/kiss/proc/731412/build/automake/doc/amhello/amhello-1.0/_inst/
[2022-12-25T21:43:57Z] <asdfhjkl> so that's insane
[2022-12-25T21:44:17Z] <asdfhjkl> so then root goes and installs in to my $HOME
[2022-12-25T21:44:35Z] <asdfhjkl> and then it tries to clean it up after it descalates privs, as my regular asdf user
[2022-12-25T21:44:41Z] <asdfhjkl> and that's permission denied
[2022-12-25T21:44:42Z] <asdfhjkl> LMAO
[2022-12-25T21:50:50Z] <asdfhjkl> Here'/s a build file, right. it's shitty because i'm using an gnu provided 'bootstrap' script to generate a configure file on this package, because they don't store configure in the git version of automake
[2022-12-25T21:51:34Z] <sad_plan> hi
[2022-12-25T21:53:37Z] <asdfhjkl> phoebos http://ix.io/4jy8/bash
[2022-12-25T21:57:20Z] <asdfhjkl> that builds w/o issue because of the nasty workaround on the last line.
[2022-12-25T21:59:02Z] <asdfhjkl> here's the manifest from that https://paste.rs/jkw
[2022-12-25T21:59:16Z] <asdfhjkl> Now if I remove that rm -rf from the last line and install again, take a look at this
[2022-12-25T22:00:18Z] <asdfhjkl> build output http://ix.io/4jyb
[2022-12-25T22:00:51Z] <asdfhjkl> manifest http://ix.io/4jye/text
[2022-12-25T22:00:58Z] <asdfhjkl> phoebos ^
[2022-12-25T22:01:55Z] <phoebos> seems like prefix and destdir are getting messed up
[2022-12-25T22:02:03Z] <phoebos> what's your KISS_TMP and tar provider
[2022-12-25T22:02:10Z] <asdfhjkl> busybox
[2022-12-25T22:02:47Z] <asdfhjkl> how do I find KISS_TMP
[2022-12-25T22:02:53Z] <asdfhjkl> I'll echo it out from a build attempt?
[2022-12-25T22:04:56Z] <phoebos> if you haven't set it dw
[2022-12-25T22:05:35Z] <phoebos> i'll try to reproduce
[2022-12-25T22:08:06Z] <asdfhjkl> i dont think you'll reproduce it unelss you build from source
[2022-12-25T22:08:34Z] <asdfhjkl> i'm suspecting its the configure file options might need setting surroudning this 'doc' amhello functionality
[2022-12-25T22:11:41Z] <asdfhjkl> phoebos here's the relevant options i can see available in ./configure for this http://ix.io/4jyh/bash
[2022-12-25T22:14:22Z] <asdfhjkl> check out `42   --docdir=DIR            documentation root [DATAROOTDIR/doc/automake]`
[2022-12-25T22:15:13Z] <asdfhjkl> I've tried setting `--docdir=/usr/share \` to no avail
[2022-12-25T22:15:20Z] <asdfhjkl> Do I need to set DATAROOTDIR somehow?
[2022-12-25T22:35:26Z] <asdfhjkl> AHA i think DATAROOTDIR gets overwritten maybe by https://git.asdfhjkl.xyz/zekeos/autohell/src/branch/main/automake-release-files-we-need/bootstrap#L42
[2022-12-25T22:51:22Z] <asdfhjkl> hmm nope
[2022-12-25T23:43:52Z] <phoebos> i can't reproduce
[2022-12-25T23:44:36Z] <phoebos> run sh -x /bin/kiss b automake 2>&1 and post the xtrace