💾 Archived View for gemini.ctrl-c.club › ~phoebos › logs › kisslinux-2022-08-24.txt captured on 2024-03-21 at 15:53:07.
⬅️ Previous capture (2023-01-29)
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[2022-08-24T00:10:55Z] <midfavila> remind me to add automatic connection reestablishment and authentication to my irc client
[2022-08-24T00:11:15Z] <midfavila> well, "my"
[2022-08-24T00:11:47Z] <noocsharp> sure sounds like your ideal system is oasis mid
[2022-08-24T00:12:01Z] <noocsharp> well if you substitute x for wayland
[2022-08-24T00:12:20Z] <midfavila> oasis is cool if you ignore that wayland is shit, yeah
[2022-08-24T00:12:32Z] <midfavila> but you could probably get tinyx to work... actually, hrm
[2022-08-24T00:12:48Z] <midfavila> yeah, no
[2022-08-24T00:13:05Z] <midfavila> i doubt that tcc is up to the task of compiling all of tinyx's deps
[2022-08-24T00:14:17Z] <midfavila> good time for me to learn graphics and kernel progamming I guess :'^)
[2022-08-24T00:14:24Z] <midfavila> programming, christ
[2022-08-24T00:14:27Z] <midfavila> i can't spell today
[2022-08-24T00:14:34Z] <noocsharp> fork oasis and build on top of it
[2022-08-24T00:14:46Z] <midfavila> but muh gambler's fallacy
[2022-08-24T00:15:13Z] <noocsharp> it already has bearssl support almost everywhere as well
[2022-08-24T00:15:13Z] <midfavila> and also i don't like that they use git instead of a package manager
[2022-08-24T00:15:27Z] <midfavila> i'll definitely look at their work though
[2022-08-24T00:16:27Z] <noocsharp> the core is git, you can use whatever (portable) pm you want for extra packages
[2022-08-24T00:16:53Z] <midfavila> eeeeeeeeeh.
[2022-08-24T00:17:01Z] <noocsharp> i wanted to put kiss on oasis at one point but never did
[2022-08-24T00:19:46Z] <midfavila> btw
[2022-08-24T00:19:52Z] <midfavila> kiss replaced eudev with mdev a while back, right?
[2022-08-24T00:31:01Z] <Torr> Replaced? Not aware if 'twas ever used.
[2022-08-24T00:31:55Z] <Torr> Will have a walk now, will be back later.
[2022-08-24T01:58:59Z] <midfavila> y'know, i'm actually really impressed with tcc
[2022-08-24T01:59:17Z] <midfavila> it's been able to build almost every package in my core ports
[2022-08-24T01:59:22Z] <midfavila> zero changes necessary
[2022-08-24T01:59:42Z] <midfavila> doesn't even need binutils (aside from ar and ranlib)
[2022-08-24T01:59:52Z] <midfavila> turns out it has an integrated assembler and linker
[2022-08-24T02:04:13Z] <midfavila> of course, any components that require C++ are a no-go, but still. a good start
[2022-08-24T02:09:01Z] <ioraff> libudev was replaced with libudev-zero udevd was replaced with mdev/mdevd + libudev-zero-helper
[2022-08-24T02:09:16Z] <ioraff> s/udevd/and udevd/
[2022-08-24T02:09:48Z] <midfavila> thanks
[2022-08-24T02:11:06Z] <ioraff> does tcc accept gcc flags?
[2022-08-24T02:11:38Z] <midfavila> a minimal subset of them, yeah
[2022-08-24T02:11:46Z] <midfavila> it also accepts a subset of bfd flags, and as flags
[2022-08-24T02:12:10Z] <midfavila> i'm still going through my core/ repo, but really, for pure C projects tcc has been wonderful
[2022-08-24T02:12:20Z] <ioraff> so if a makefile uses anything unsupported, does it ignore it or fail?
[2022-08-24T02:12:35Z] <midfavila> it fails, like you'd expect
[2022-08-24T02:12:45Z] <midfavila> but a quick sed is usually enough to fix it
[2022-08-24T02:13:24Z] <midfavila> the only pure C code I've ran into trouble with so far has been the net-tools distribution and (oddly enough) the netbsd curses library
[2022-08-24T02:13:42Z] <midfavila> their color handling routines use a gnuism on linuxes
[2022-08-24T02:16:49Z] <ioraff> I wish vis didn't have an issues with netbsd-curses. otherwise I'd be using it.
[2022-08-24T02:17:00Z] <midfavila> as in vis(ible)?
[2022-08-24T02:17:07Z] <midfavila> or is it an editor or something?
[2022-08-24T02:17:11Z] <ioraff> an editor
[2022-08-24T02:17:14Z] <midfavila> aah
[2022-08-24T02:17:17Z] <midfavila> some vi clone?
[2022-08-24T02:17:20Z] <ioraff> yes
[2022-08-24T02:17:31Z] <midfavila> why vis in particular? there are tons of vi clones
[2022-08-24T02:17:32Z] <testuser[m]12> Hi
[2022-08-24T02:17:36Z] <midfavila> heya
[2022-08-24T02:17:43Z] <testuser[m]12> ioraff: what do you use now
[2022-08-24T02:17:54Z] <midfavila> i bet he's a filthy ncurses user
[2022-08-24T02:17:56Z] * midfavila hisses
[2022-08-24T02:17:58Z] <ioraff> very small, nice lua extensibility
[2022-08-24T02:18:02Z] <ioraff> I am indeed
[2022-08-24T02:18:08Z] <midfavila> stone the heretic
[2022-08-24T02:18:16Z] <midfavila> i guess if you're big into lua that's fair
[2022-08-24T02:18:29Z] <midfavila> i've been getting more and more fed up with emacs lately myself
[2022-08-24T02:18:39Z] <midfavila> well, GNU's emacs
[2022-08-24T02:18:54Z] <ioraff> I'm not, but I like how vis uses it.
[2022-08-24T02:18:58Z] <ioraff> you use emacs?
[2022-08-24T02:19:04Z] <midfavila> as an IDE, yeah
[2022-08-24T02:19:11Z] <midfavila> my regular editor is either ed or se
[2022-08-24T02:19:21Z] <midfavila> usually the latter but ed has its uses
[2022-08-24T02:19:27Z] <ioraff> se?
[2022-08-24T02:19:38Z] <midfavila> it's a really cool program, practically and historically
[2022-08-24T02:19:41Z] <midfavila> so, think ed, right
[2022-08-24T02:19:44Z] <midfavila> but give it a UI
[2022-08-24T02:19:49Z] <midfavila> and you might say "mid, that's just vi"
[2022-08-24T02:19:52Z] <midfavila> but no, it's not
[2022-08-24T02:19:55Z] <midfavila> this is closer to something like sam
[2022-08-24T02:19:55Z] <ioraff> that sounds like sam
[2022-08-24T02:19:57Z] <midfavila> yeah
[2022-08-24T02:20:05Z] <midfavila> it's like a really small really primitive sam
[2022-08-24T02:20:13Z] <midfavila> statically linked it's barely larger than suckless ed
[2022-08-24T02:20:18Z] <midfavila> v v v v v comfy
[2022-08-24T02:20:32Z] <midfavila> i have a package for it if you want to peek at it
[2022-08-24T02:20:38Z] <ioraff> sure
[2022-08-24T02:20:53Z] <midfavila> it's descended from "editor" as described in "software tools in pascal" by brian kernighan
[2022-08-24T02:21:05Z] <midfavila> i guess it was later rewritten in C and then posted on usenet where it kicked around on the net for a while
[2022-08-24T02:21:24Z] <midfavila> then some dude revived it a few years ago, then his site died, and now i'm probably the only user of it left on the planet
[2022-08-24T02:21:57Z] <midfavila> https://git.sdf.org/midfavila/kiss-mfavila/src/branch/master/ports/official/core/se
[2022-08-24T02:22:59Z] <midfavila> http://0x0.st/o9Ol.tar
[2022-08-24T02:23:03Z] <midfavila> alternatively here's a binary
[2022-08-24T02:23:36Z] <midfavila> linked against musl
[2022-08-24T02:23:42Z] <midfavila> i don't think it needs anything else
[2022-08-24T02:23:49Z] <midfavila> it has its own screen handling routines built in
[2022-08-24T02:24:01Z] <midfavila> which is both cool and annoying as all hell
[2022-08-24T02:30:13Z] <midfavila> while i'm shaking up core i might replace gnu m4 with quasar m4
[2022-08-24T02:30:18Z] <midfavila> it has a similar story to se
[2022-08-24T02:30:26Z] <midfavila> in that it also originates from software tools in pascal
[2022-08-24T02:31:51Z] <midfavila> final count, of the fifty or so packages under core/, tcc only had trouble with twelve
[2022-08-24T02:32:08Z] <midfavila> many of which were C++ so they don't even count
[2022-08-24T02:32:15Z] <midfavila> starting to think this might actually be viable
[2022-08-24T02:37:05Z] <ioraff> have you tried the same thing with cproc?
[2022-08-24T02:38:40Z] <midfavila> briefly, but I wasn't impressed
[2022-08-24T02:38:48Z] <midfavila> still, cproc is an exciting project
[2022-08-24T02:39:09Z] <midfavila> if i knew more about compiler design (and, you know, computing in general) i'd definitely contribute to it and qbe
[2022-08-24T02:40:13Z] <midfavila> ...oh, actually, some of the problems tcc ran into were a result of the problems with the curses library
[2022-08-24T02:40:56Z] <midfavila> i'll definitely lose some (maybe even most) of the programs I use right now if I switch to tcc, but I think that that's a double-edged sword
[2022-08-24T02:41:03Z] <midfavila> force me to write more of my own software and actually learn stuff
[2022-08-24T02:44:23Z] <midfavila> as it stands it's looking like i'll need to write my own http client
[2022-08-24T02:44:48Z] <midfavila> curl, wget and axel rely on libre/openssl, and axel doesn't compile anyway
[2022-08-24T02:44:58Z] <midfavila> exciting stuff
[2022-08-24T02:50:29Z] <Torr> Leaving
[2022-08-24T02:50:34Z] <Torr> See ya folks
[2022-08-24T03:29:21Z] <noocsharp> curl can use bearssl for tls
[2022-08-24T03:30:02Z] <midfavila> hmm
[2022-08-24T03:30:03Z] <noocsharp> also see: https://codemadness.org/git/hurl/log.html
[2022-08-24T03:31:25Z] <midfavila> very cool
[2022-08-24T03:31:52Z] <midfavila> maybe i'll peek at it if i'm having trouble implementing some of the more generic code
[2022-08-24T03:32:10Z] <midfavila> nobody's gonna scream at me for copying basic boilerplate
[2022-08-24T03:55:58Z] <wael[m]> midfavila: AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAa
[2022-08-24T03:56:31Z] <midfavila> ?
[2022-08-24T03:56:38Z] <midfavila> oh
[2022-08-24T03:56:39Z] <midfavila> well
[2022-08-24T03:56:45Z] <midfavila> i haven't copied anything yet
[2022-08-24T03:56:46Z] <midfavila> so heck off
[2022-08-24T04:45:29Z] <sad_plan> midfavila: in regards to oasis linux. cproc builds more or less the whole distro though. with the exception of the kernel though.
[2022-08-24T04:45:58Z] <sad_plan> theres like 9 packages left that doesnt build with cproc according to his issue about it.
[2022-08-24T04:46:42Z] <sad_plan> 103/114 builds with cproc is quite nice imo
[2022-08-24T04:49:28Z] <midfavila> hmm
[2022-08-24T04:49:32Z] <midfavila> maybe i'll give it a shot again soon
[2022-08-24T04:49:50Z] <midfavila> really glad to hear the project is progressing well
[2022-08-24T04:50:03Z] <midfavila> what toolchain aside from qbe/cproc does oasis use? llvm, binutils, elfutils..?
[2022-08-24T04:50:33Z] <sad_plan> no llvm at all. but yes, binutils and elfutils is in the repo
[2022-08-24T04:51:31Z] <midfavila> aah
[2022-08-24T04:51:41Z] <sad_plan> I really like oasis too, but as you said earlier, no package manager sortof puts me off tbh. I too been curious as to how I could put kiss on top of it, or make kiss more like oasis in any regards. more speficially the static linking part :p
[2022-08-24T04:51:56Z] <midfavila> it hasn't been very hard for me
[2022-08-24T04:52:17Z] <midfavila> i've just gone through my core and had the build append -static to the CFLAGS and LDFLAGS
[2022-08-24T04:52:28Z] <midfavila> sometimes you need to patch buildfiles or run a quick sed
[2022-08-24T04:52:48Z] <midfavila> only thing that's given me persistent trouble is zlib and stuff built atop it
[2022-08-24T04:53:10Z] <sad_plan> its not that its hard to build a static system. I previously build everything up and including velox (the wm which oasis uses), aswell as some terminal based browsers.
[2022-08-24T04:53:32Z] <midfavila> re: toolchain i only ask because i've been looking for a slightly less gargantuan set of binutils. you might have seen me whining about it
[2022-08-24T04:53:34Z] <midfavila> oh, definitely
[2022-08-24T04:53:45Z] <sad_plan> never had any issues with zlib, but we're not using the same one though :p
[2022-08-24T04:53:54Z] <midfavila> yeah
[2022-08-24T04:53:57Z] <midfavila> i'm using sortix libz
[2022-08-24T04:54:08Z] <midfavila> (i have no idea how my system still boots)
[2022-08-24T04:54:42Z] <sad_plan> the statis stuff gets difficult when you suddenly want a modern browser. or anything remotly modern I mean. I was trying to get something webkit based done, buut when I got to build gtk+3, it seems I couldnt get passed the mesa requirement
[2022-08-24T04:54:48Z] <sad_plan> lol
[2022-08-24T04:55:05Z] <midfavila> yeah, that would definitely represent a problem
[2022-08-24T04:55:07Z] <midfavila> fortunately,
[2022-08-24T04:55:19Z] <midfavila> I don't really need a modern browser
[2022-08-24T04:55:20Z] <midfavila> :smug:
[2022-08-24T04:55:45Z] <midfavila> although I'm keeping dynamic libraries around and a gcc package under unofficial/stable
[2022-08-24T04:56:06Z] <sad_plan> I know. lol. but I wanted something a bit more usefull. although when using it for some time, and having used lynx for a couple of weeks, you kinda get used to it
[2022-08-24T04:56:30Z] <sad_plan> I thought about that too, as gcc shared libs is a pita for me when upgrading gcc
[2022-08-24T04:56:56Z] <midfavila> idk man aside from not being able to use JS on the one site i actually need it, links is more pleasant and useful than my regular browser
[2022-08-24T04:57:03Z] <sad_plan> I build gcc's bin static, but keep the shared libs. which means I gotta build it twice. unless someone else got a better idea on how to do it though
[2022-08-24T04:57:14Z] <sad_plan> whats your regular browser?
[2022-08-24T04:57:24Z] <sad_plan> I thought you used links as the regular one
[2022-08-24T04:57:37Z] <midfavila> "regular" as in won't make a normal person freak out when they see it
[2022-08-24T04:57:56Z] <midfavila> i daily a fork of links2, but when I need to use the modern web I use a UXP browser
[2022-08-24T04:58:15Z] <sad_plan> ah gotcha. lol
[2022-08-24T04:58:16Z] <sad_plan> I see
[2022-08-24T04:58:21Z] <midfavila> yeh
[2022-08-24T04:58:26Z] <midfavila> i open it maybe once or twice a week
[2022-08-24T04:58:41Z] <midfavila> check my webmail, might go on ebay, poke at my bank and that's really it
[2022-08-24T04:59:43Z] <midfavila> hmm
[2022-08-24T04:59:48Z] <midfavila> i'm gonna need an even smaller X distribution
[2022-08-24T04:59:50Z] <sad_plan> if thats all, its really easy to keep a really minimalistic system. I do brows alot, but mostly for linux stuff, or watch some content from yt or some shit. Im sure I could manage with a simpler browser though.
[2022-08-24T05:00:06Z] <midfavila> oh, i browse invidious from links
[2022-08-24T05:00:11Z] <sad_plan> I did try to build netsurf, but the perl stuff got me stuck...
[2022-08-24T05:00:19Z] <midfavila> i have it pipe stuff to my native player
[2022-08-24T05:00:26Z] <midfavila> netsurf isn't worth it
[2022-08-24T05:00:31Z] <sad_plan> yeah, invidious is great. might also wanna check out piped too. suppsedly its faster
[2022-08-24T05:00:41Z] <midfavila> piped requires JS doesn't it?
[2022-08-24T05:00:52Z] <sad_plan> I just wanted to try it out, and see. but yeah. using it on oasis I was abit meh about it.
[2022-08-24T05:01:01Z] <sad_plan> Im not entierly sure tbh
[2022-08-24T05:01:09Z] <sad_plan> but probably yea
[2022-08-24T05:01:13Z] <midfavila> it does
[2022-08-24T05:01:19Z] <sad_plan> bummer
[2022-08-24T05:01:24Z] <midfavila> part of the appeal of invidious to me is that it can be used from within links
[2022-08-24T05:01:37Z] <midfavila> or, you know, i can abuse curl
[2022-08-24T05:01:46Z] <sad_plan> thats nice though. perhaps Ill revisit using links
[2022-08-24T05:01:52Z] <midfavila> you totally should
[2022-08-24T05:02:00Z] <midfavila> i have a patched version packaged to add xembed support
[2022-08-24T05:02:06Z] <midfavila> that way you can use it with tabbed or something
[2022-08-24T05:02:14Z] <sad_plan> curl is create. or any tool which lets you watch it without the browser. I usually download my stuff, or watch it with ytfzf
[2022-08-24T05:02:18Z] <sad_plan> cool
[2022-08-24T05:02:29Z] <sad_plan> I was always curious about that one. how to you tab it though?
[2022-08-24T05:02:41Z] <sad_plan> like any other window?
[2022-08-24T05:03:17Z] <midfavila> http://0x0.st/o9VS.sh
[2022-08-24T05:03:29Z] <midfavila> i have this script manage the instance of tabbed and its children
[2022-08-24T05:03:37Z] <midfavila> it's pretty bad, was one of the first scripts i wrote
[2022-08-24T05:03:39Z] <midfavila> but it works
[2022-08-24T05:04:02Z] <midfavila> you just provide the XID of the parent window to the child
[2022-08-24T05:04:04Z] <sad_plan> nice
[2022-08-24T05:04:19Z] <sad_plan> itll check it out
[2022-08-24T05:04:31Z] <midfavila> :+1:
[2022-08-24T05:07:23Z] <midfavila> boom
[2022-08-24T05:07:31Z] <midfavila> libressl is gone, GNU toolchain is gone
[2022-08-24T05:07:37Z] <midfavila> my hipster OS nears perfection
[2022-08-24T05:07:59Z] <sad_plan> but you still need gcc for building the kernel though
[2022-08-24T05:08:04Z] <sad_plan> did you switch to bearssl?
[2022-08-24T05:08:12Z] <midfavila> in the process of switching ye
[2022-08-24T05:08:22Z] <midfavila> and i only need gcc to build the kernel for *now*
[2022-08-24T05:08:30Z] <sad_plan> nice. Ive been thinking about doing that aswell
[2022-08-24T05:08:50Z] <midfavila> as i gradually increase the portability of my system i'm going to consider rebasing atop a simpler kernel
[2022-08-24T05:08:51Z] <wael[m]> whats the difference between libressl and bearssl?
[2022-08-24T05:08:57Z] <midfavila> bearssl is way smaller
[2022-08-24T05:08:59Z] <wael[m]> i thought libressl was lighter in a way
[2022-08-24T05:09:01Z] <midfavila> and it's completely original
[2022-08-24T05:09:02Z] <midfavila> also
[2022-08-24T05:09:02Z] <midfavila> it is
[2022-08-24T05:09:04Z] <wael[m]> wait whaat
[2022-08-24T05:09:09Z] <sad_plan> could use llvm, but yeah. its a pain to build anyway
[2022-08-24T05:09:11Z] <midfavila> libressl is to openssl as libz is to zlib
[2022-08-24T05:09:21Z] <midfavila> a fork of old crufty junk in an attempt to make it less junk
[2022-08-24T05:09:24Z] <sad_plan> bearssl is cool imo. but not widely used
[2022-08-24T05:09:39Z] <midfavila> well, given my setup, it's not like most existing software is going to compile anyway
[2022-08-24T05:09:54Z] <wael[m]> bearssl in sloc was larger than libressl afaik
[2022-08-24T05:10:04Z] <midfavila> i guess the ultimate goal is to create an easy to understand environment that's easy to develop itself as well as for
[2022-08-24T05:11:17Z] <midfavila> uh, yeah, no, wael[m]
[2022-08-24T05:11:21Z] <midfavila> libressl is almost 500k
[2022-08-24T05:11:23Z] <midfavila> bear is maybe 20k
[2022-08-24T05:11:39Z] <midfavila> sorry, bear is almost 60
[2022-08-24T05:11:50Z] <midfavila> but that's still almost an order of magnitude smaller
[2022-08-24T05:13:14Z] <midfavila> gah, i need to reorganize my ports tree again
[2022-08-24T05:13:50Z] <wael[m]> BearSSL - C - 54972
[2022-08-24T05:13:50Z] <wael[m]> LibreSSL - C - 237240
[2022-08-24T05:14:00Z] <wael[m]> well i should have known that before switching to libressl
[2022-08-24T05:16:14Z] <midfavila> it wouldn't have made a difference
[2022-08-24T05:16:26Z] <midfavila> libressl is so massive because it maintains backward compat with openssl
[2022-08-24T05:16:31Z] <midfavila> bear is completely incompatible
[2022-08-24T05:16:38Z] <wael[m]> oh yeah makes sense
[2022-08-24T05:16:42Z] <wael[m]> i should probably stay on libressl
[2022-08-24T05:16:45Z] <midfavila> you would need to either write your own software or severely restrict yourself
[2022-08-24T05:16:51Z] <wael[m]> i use applications that can 100% conflict with bearssl
[2022-08-24T05:19:02Z] <midfavila> most people do
[2022-08-24T05:19:29Z] <midfavila> i mean, i'm gonna need to maintain chroots or write a compat library to continue using a lot of my networked software
[2022-08-24T05:19:47Z] <midfavila> actually, a bearssl-libressl shim would be pretty sweet
[2022-08-24T05:20:26Z] <sad_plan> build stuff statically, and you could use both though. make a switch for those stuff that doesnt work with bearssl
[2022-08-24T05:21:10Z] <midfavila> does bearssl conflict with open/libressl?
[2022-08-24T05:21:32Z] <sad_plan> libtls does iirc aswell as libssl
[2022-08-24T05:21:44Z] <sad_plan> its just those libs iirc
[2022-08-24T05:22:11Z] <sad_plan> Ive been messing with it some time earlier, and those showed up as alternatives
[2022-08-24T05:22:34Z] <sad_plan> iirc anyway. its probably 6 month to a year since I did it
[2022-08-24T05:24:02Z] <testuser[m]12> sad_plan: bruh that's just increasing the bloat in system
[2022-08-24T05:24:40Z] <midfavila> it doesn't look like bearssl conflicts at all
[2022-08-24T05:24:45Z] <midfavila> it only generates two libraries
[2022-08-24T05:24:53Z] <midfavila> libbearssl.so and libbearssl.a
[2022-08-24T05:24:58Z] <midfavila> if they conflict that's on you
[2022-08-24T05:25:09Z] <midfavila> jfc it's like 2am
[2022-08-24T05:25:11Z] <sad_plan> lol
[2022-08-24T05:25:22Z] <sad_plan> its libtlsbearssl that conficts then
[2022-08-24T05:25:34Z] <sad_plan> its a seperate package
[2022-08-24T05:25:40Z] <midfavila> i guess so
[2022-08-24T05:25:51Z] <midfavila> i just ran a quick find . | grep tls and not a single line came out
[2022-08-24T05:25:52Z] <sad_plan> https://github.com/michaelforney/libtls-bearssl
[2022-08-24T05:25:57Z] <midfavila> (in the root dir of bear)
[2022-08-24T05:26:18Z] <sad_plan> its because its over there instead
[2022-08-24T05:26:52Z] <midfavila> makes sense
[2022-08-24T05:26:55Z] <midfavila> i'm glad you showed me that
[2022-08-24T05:27:08Z] <sad_plan> youre welcome C:
[2022-08-24T05:27:16Z] <midfavila> i've never done TLS programming before so having training wheels for lack of a better term will help a lot
[2022-08-24T05:27:20Z] <midfavila> "training wheels"
[2022-08-24T05:27:35Z] <sad_plan> sure
[2022-08-24T05:32:18Z] <midfavila> cool, that's packaged and set up
[2022-08-24T05:32:25Z] <midfavila> refreshing to see someone explicitly write a posix makefile
[2022-08-24T05:32:47Z] <midfavila> also refreshing to not see shit like recursive makefiles or the build system modifying your flags without telling you
[2022-08-24T05:35:15Z] <sad_plan> yeah, mcf seems to really care for those kinds of things. aswell as a sane C standard. in regards to cproc and stuff. he seems to avoid c++ among other things. oasis avoids harfbuzz altogether i.e. harfbuzz is written in c++ if you didnt guess it already :p
[2022-08-24T05:35:44Z] <midfavila> oh, that too, but i meant bearssl itself
[2022-08-24T05:36:41Z] <midfavila> you just make and use a for loop to dump the object files into your preferred place
[2022-08-24T05:36:46Z] * midfavila does a chef's kiss
[2022-08-24T05:36:48Z] <midfavila> as god intended
[2022-08-24T05:37:11Z] <midfavila> now to see if curl will build with tcc and bearssl
[2022-08-24T05:37:21Z] <midfavila> holy shit
[2022-08-24T05:37:40Z] <midfavila> *wild*
[2022-08-24T05:37:51Z] <midfavila> oh, no, never mind
[2022-08-24T05:37:54Z] <midfavila> it didn't link against bear
[2022-08-24T05:42:35Z] <midfavila> easy enough fix
[2022-08-24T05:44:16Z] <midfavila> oh, shit, i'll need to patch links
[2022-08-24T05:44:21Z] <midfavila> hm
[2022-08-24T05:44:32Z] <midfavila> gonna be busy
[2022-08-24T05:46:12Z] <midfavila> anyway i'm off for the night
[2022-08-24T05:46:15Z] <midfavila> it's really late
[2022-08-24T05:48:29Z] <wael[m]> bye bye
[2022-08-24T06:35:01Z] <vouivre> hello
[2022-08-24T06:35:08Z] <wael[m]> hello
[2022-08-24T06:35:13Z] <sad_plan_> hello
[2022-08-24T06:35:40Z] <vouivre> In the past, Dylan wrote a script kiss-revert
[2022-08-24T06:35:53Z] <wael[m]> what does it do
[2022-08-24T06:35:55Z] <sad_plan_> correct, but he eventually removed it
[2022-08-24T06:36:09Z] <sad_plan_> it reverts to just the core packages
[2022-08-24T06:36:13Z] <sad_plan_> removes everything else
[2022-08-24T06:36:17Z] <vouivre> the idea was to uninstall almost all packages ..... yes
[2022-08-24T06:36:27Z] <vouivre> but in between Dylan dropped it
[2022-08-24T06:36:36Z] <wael[m]> i like that idea lol
[2022-08-24T06:36:47Z] <wael[m]> i dont have to reinstall or recompile anymore
[2022-08-24T06:37:01Z] <vouivre> I have modified it to fit the actual packages
[2022-08-24T06:37:23Z] <vouivre> personnaly I use it in a chroot when I create a new package
[2022-08-24T06:37:51Z] <vouivre> what about reintroduce it ? I can create a PR.
[2022-08-24T06:38:27Z] <testuser[m]12> contrib: remove kiss-reset
[2022-08-24T06:38:27Z] <testuser[m]12> This is best handled manually.
[2022-08-24T06:38:44Z] <vouivre> it was the comment of Dylan
[2022-08-24T06:39:17Z] <vouivre> perhaps I don't know how to do it manually, but there is no problem
[2022-08-24T06:39:39Z] <vouivre> with this script and it works always as excepted
[2022-08-24T06:39:50Z] <sad_plan_> just use the KISS_FORCE variable, and you can remove everything forcefully
[2022-08-24T06:40:06Z] <wael[m]> whaaaaa
[2022-08-24T06:40:26Z] <vouivre> ok, but you have to list every packages to remove
[2022-08-24T06:40:44Z] <vouivre> right ?
[2022-08-24T06:40:55Z] <sad_plan_> well, yes. you can also use the script which will list those for you. hold on. ill fetch it.
[2022-08-24T06:41:12Z] <sad_plan_> https://gist.github.com/FriendlyNeighborhoodShane/41593680b39c0c04cd82b5497ca25a26
[2022-08-24T06:41:17Z] <sad_plan_> this one.
[2022-08-24T06:41:37Z] <sad_plan_> itll list those for you, thus you can remove a package + its now orphaned packages
[2022-08-24T06:41:59Z] <sad_plan_> itll probably be a little easier than listing just about every package if you have like 150+
[2022-08-24T06:44:01Z] <vouivre> ok, it could probably works.
[2022-08-24T06:45:34Z] <vouivre> I can imagine I could get the same result as kiss-revert but with your script sad_plan it has more use cases
[2022-08-24T06:48:01Z] <vouivre> ok, after having a quick look on the description, I prefer the script kiss-revert
[2022-08-24T06:48:53Z] <testuser[m]12> Is there any alternative to running `while :; do sync && sleep .5; done` to prevent data loss due to power cuts ? A mount flag or something
[2022-08-24T06:48:54Z] <vouivre> if it can't be added to kiss, could it be added to awesome-kiss ?
[2022-08-24T06:49:29Z] <wael[m]> testuser: afaik on btrfs theres commit=1 or commit=0
[2022-08-24T06:51:31Z] <testuser[m]12> @illiliti non-go age alternative?
[2022-08-24T07:26:13Z] <illiliti> there are many of them
[2022-08-24T07:26:31Z] <illiliti> how about something in hare
[2022-08-24T07:26:37Z] <illiliti> https://git.sr.ht/~yerinalexey/box
[2022-08-24T07:27:51Z] <testuser[m]12> ok
[2022-08-24T08:13:57Z] <vouivre> by the way, thank you sad_plan for the link!
[2022-08-24T08:15:42Z] <sad_plan> no problem C:
[2022-08-24T08:16:59Z] <sad_plan> wael[m]: you were curious about the gcr patch for surf. it will still warn you about unvalid certificates
[2022-08-24T08:17:31Z] <sad_plan> I just checked as I were going to a site in which the cert has gone bad
[2022-08-24T08:30:26Z] <wael[m]> mate i still cant build webkit2gtk because of ruby openssl libressl epic fail
[2022-08-24T08:39:48Z] <sad_plan> I know, I just wanted to let you know about it. seeing as you were curious about it.
[2022-08-24T08:40:14Z] <wael[m]> true
[2022-08-24T12:00:11Z] <vouivre> sad_plan: you use fzy instead fzf, right ?
[2022-08-24T12:00:26Z] <sad_plan> correct
[2022-08-24T12:00:38Z] <vouivre> which version ? Official or a fork ?
[2022-08-24T12:01:20Z] <sad_plan> this one https://github.com/jhawthorn/fzy which is the official one isnt it?
[2022-08-24T12:01:28Z] <vouivre> that's right.
[2022-08-24T12:01:36Z] <sad_plan> yeah
[2022-08-24T12:02:10Z] <sad_plan> how come?
[2022-08-24T12:02:11Z] <vouivre> I will switch completely from fzf to fzy. But I need multi-selection
[2022-08-24T12:02:22Z] <sad_plan> fzy doesnt have that afaik
[2022-08-24T12:02:47Z] <vouivre> so I need the following
[2022-08-24T12:02:48Z] <vouivre> https://github.com/jhawthorn/fzy/pull/170
[2022-08-24T12:02:54Z] <vouivre> Or
[2022-08-24T12:03:10Z] <vouivre> https://github.com/leo-arch/fzy
[2022-08-24T12:04:03Z] <vouivre> Did you plan to propose a package for community ?
[2022-08-24T12:06:42Z] <wael[m]> oh yay fzy fork that im not blocked from
[2022-08-24T12:06:44Z] <sad_plan> never really thought about it tbh. didnt think anyone would be interested in it anyway
[2022-08-24T12:07:26Z] <sad_plan> but sure. I dont see any reason not to put it into community, if theres any interest for it
[2022-08-24T12:21:49Z] <vouivre> I have it on my list to package. If it's in community, it's easier to install it on my other computer.
[2022-08-24T12:22:12Z] <vouivre> I would like to have it with the PR with multi-selection.
[2022-08-24T12:22:26Z] <vouivre> You can package it, or I'll do it. Like you want.
[2022-08-24T12:22:57Z] <vouivre> Ok, discussion for later :-).
[2022-08-24T12:47:15Z] <sad_plan> Im sure other people would enjoy fzy over fzf, but as you said, it might be open for people to discuss. In case certain features will be missed. Like multi selection as you mentioned. Ill look into it when I get back on my laptop. Perhaps open an issue about it.
[2022-08-24T12:50:18Z] <jslick> I might be interested in fzy; haven't tried it yet. fzf is the only reason I have go installed
[2022-08-24T12:51:51Z] <sad_plan> Exacly. Fzy is written in C anyway, which is the prefered language around here
[2022-08-24T14:08:22Z] <Guest54> Hello! Im having a problem, dont know if this is the place to ask but im going to do it anway.
[2022-08-24T14:08:23Z] <Guest54> I installed kiss linux with defconfig (i did add framebuffer support and amdgpu support)
[2022-08-24T14:08:23Z] <Guest54> Now that im booting it it seems to hang and not get to the init (maybe a amdgpu problem?)
[2022-08-24T14:08:23Z] <Guest54> Any help is appreciated
[2022-08-24T14:08:44Z] <wael[m]> hi oak
[2022-08-24T14:08:48Z] <Guest54> Hello wael
[2022-08-24T14:13:16Z] <illiliti> i assume you're using uefi, right?
[2022-08-24T14:13:52Z] <Guest54> Yes
[2022-08-24T14:13:55Z] <Guest54> im using uefi
[2022-08-24T14:13:55Z] <wael[m]> he is, with efibootmgr
[2022-08-24T14:14:11Z] <illiliti> make sure that all efi modules are compiled in kernel
[2022-08-24T14:14:30Z] <Guest54> Why would that work?
[2022-08-24T14:14:46Z] <Guest54> its booting fine its just not getting to the init
[2022-08-24T14:15:37Z] <illiliti> can you get a error log or something?
[2022-08-24T14:15:52Z] <Guest54> I wouldnt know how
[2022-08-24T14:15:59Z] <Guest54> Through ssh?
[2022-08-24T14:16:29Z] <illiliti> screenshot?
[2022-08-24T14:16:50Z] <Guest54> It doesnt really show any errors
[2022-08-24T14:17:20Z] <illiliti> blank screen?
[2022-08-24T14:17:32Z] <Guest54> No
[2022-08-24T14:17:40Z] <Guest54> it shows the normal boot up sequence before the init
[2022-08-24T14:19:01Z] <illiliti> give me something so that i can understand where is the problem
[2022-08-24T14:19:27Z] <Guest54> I have a picture on my phone, wait a second
[2022-08-24T14:19:41Z] <illiliti> ok
[2022-08-24T14:21:24Z] <Guest54> Im gonna get a irc client on my phone, i cant find the image
[2022-08-24T14:22:31Z] <Guest54> nvm
[2022-08-24T14:22:34Z] <Guest54> waels gonna upload it for me
[2022-08-24T14:23:22Z] <wael[m]> https://0x0.st/o9J-.jpg
[2022-08-24T14:24:07Z] <Guest54> Its not getting past this
[2022-08-24T14:24:40Z] <wael[m]> i assume whats going on is that amdgpu driver is initialized but the kernel isnt giving anything to the gpu
[2022-08-24T14:25:22Z] <illiliti> kernel issue yeah
[2022-08-24T14:26:28Z] <Guest54> What could i enable to fix this?
[2022-08-24T14:26:44Z] <Guest54> Im just looking for anything here
[2022-08-24T14:26:58Z] <illiliti> what about other distros? do they work?
[2022-08-24T14:27:07Z] <illiliti> if they do, you can copy their kernel config
[2022-08-24T14:27:40Z] <illiliti> e.g alpine or void
[2022-08-24T14:27:43Z] <wael[m]> most kernel configs from the big distros have initramfs in mind, so use tinyramfs
[2022-08-24T14:28:39Z] <Guest54> i used gentoo, i have never configured my kernel before though
[2022-08-24T14:28:45Z] <Guest54> this is basically my first time
[2022-08-24T14:28:49Z] <illiliti> how did you compile kernel btw? with builtin modules?
[2022-08-24T14:29:18Z] <Guest54> as i said earlier i used make defconfig and changed some stuff for amdgpu to "work"
[2022-08-24T14:29:43Z] <wael[m]> but then i came in and enabled the amdgpu driver in the kernel configuration
[2022-08-24T14:29:46Z] <illiliti> send me your kernel config
[2022-08-24T14:30:02Z] <wael[m]> Guest54: use cat .config | nc termbin.com 9999 to upload it easily
[2022-08-24T14:30:04Z] <Guest54> Ok, ill rejoin with a different name as im on windows right now
[2022-08-24T14:30:22Z] <Guest54> wael[m] can you dm me that on discord
[2022-08-24T14:30:32Z] <wael[m]> ok
[2022-08-24T14:33:33Z] <illiliti> also make defconfig isn't a great idea.
[2022-08-24T14:33:41Z] <illiliti> better option would be make localyesconfig
[2022-08-24T14:33:49Z] <oak> Too late now
[2022-08-24T14:34:04Z] <oak> im working on sending the config
[2022-08-24T14:35:01Z] <oak> https://termbin.com/7hd6
[2022-08-24T14:36:36Z] <illiliti> does your gpu need firmware?
[2022-08-24T14:36:46Z] <oak> I think so, its a rx 570
[2022-08-24T14:36:58Z] <oak> i added it like the kiss install guide sayed
[2022-08-24T14:37:01Z] <oak> said
[2022-08-24T14:37:02Z] <oak> *
[2022-08-24T14:37:13Z] <illiliti> CONFIG_EXTRA_FIRMWARE=""
[2022-08-24T14:37:17Z] <illiliti> it's empty
[2022-08-24T14:37:34Z] <oak> Do i add something there?
[2022-08-24T14:37:40Z] <illiliti> you should populate it with path to firmware
[2022-08-24T14:37:44Z] <oak> sorry im new to configuring my kernel
[2022-08-24T14:38:02Z] <oak> so i add /usr/lib/firmware in there?
[2022-08-24T14:38:09Z] <illiliti> no
[2022-08-24T14:38:15Z] <oak> or /usr/lib/firmware/amdgpu/
[2022-08-24T14:38:28Z] <illiliti> path should be relative to /usr/lib/firmware
[2022-08-24T14:38:41Z] <illiliti> but i'm not 100% sure
[2022-08-24T14:38:45Z] <illiliti> i'll double check
[2022-08-24T14:38:50Z] <oak> Ok, thanks
[2022-08-24T14:39:41Z] <illiliti> yeah i'm right
[2022-08-24T14:39:54Z] <illiliti> it's relative
[2022-08-24T14:40:05Z] <oak> So what do i add there?
[2022-08-24T14:40:10Z] <oak> does it find the binaries itself?
[2022-08-24T14:40:16Z] <illiliti> you need to find out which firmware your gpu need
[2022-08-24T14:40:21Z] <illiliti> or just add everything
[2022-08-24T14:40:36Z] <oak> how do i add everything, im not trying to be super minimal
[2022-08-24T14:42:04Z] <illiliti> CONFIG_EXTRA_FIRMWARE="amdgpu/<name>.bin amdgpu/<name2>.bin ..."
[2022-08-24T14:42:25Z] <illiliti> https://git.kernel.org/pub/scm/linux/kernel/git/firmware/linux-firmware.git/tree/amdgpu
[2022-08-24T14:42:27Z] <oak> Do i add this via menuconfig?
[2022-08-24T14:42:33Z] <illiliti> yep
[2022-08-24T14:42:36Z] <oak> Ok
[2022-08-24T14:42:43Z] <oak> thank you for the help
[2022-08-24T14:44:02Z] <illiliti> does anything else besides gpu need firmware?
[2022-08-24T14:44:55Z] <oak> Dont think so, wael didnt add firmware and i have the same cpu
[2022-08-24T14:44:55Z] <illiliti> wifi card maybe
[2022-08-24T14:45:00Z] <oak> no not a wifi card
[2022-08-24T14:45:06Z] <oak> i use ethernet with sdhcp
[2022-08-24T14:45:13Z] <illiliti> ok
[2022-08-24T14:45:16Z] <wael[m]> you had firmware
[2022-08-24T14:45:27Z] <oak> i didnt give the kernel the location though
[2022-08-24T14:46:05Z] <oak> its giving me a error
[2022-08-24T14:46:07Z] <oak> ill upload it
[2022-08-24T14:48:31Z] <oak> https://pastebin.com/78JTJ5K0
[2022-08-24T14:52:09Z] <vouivre> sad_plan: ok, I'll create a new issue.
[2022-08-24T14:53:30Z] <illiliti> men
[2022-08-24T14:53:41Z] <illiliti> you need to replace <name> with actual name
[2022-08-24T14:54:07Z] <oak> name of what...
[2022-08-24T14:54:11Z] <oak> i wanted to add all of the firmware
[2022-08-24T14:54:15Z] <illiliti> of firmware
[2022-08-24T14:54:35Z] <oak> i said i wanted to add all of the firmware so it just works
[2022-08-24T14:56:26Z] <illiliti> then you need to add relative paths to firmwares to CONFIG_EXTRA_FIRMWARE
[2022-08-24T14:56:31Z] <illiliti> https://git.kernel.org/pub/scm/linux/kernel/git/firmware/linux-firmware.git/tree/amdgpu
[2022-08-24T14:56:44Z] <illiliti> e.g aldebaran_mec.bin
[2022-08-24T14:56:46Z] <illiliti> and so on
[2022-08-24T14:57:12Z] <oak> so i just have a long line of all the firmware in extra_firmware=?
[2022-08-24T14:57:21Z] <illiliti> yes
[2022-08-24T14:57:39Z] <oak> ok
[2022-08-24T14:59:36Z] <illiliti> don't forget to download firmwares to /lib/firmware first
[2022-08-24T14:59:49Z] <oak> i have it in /usr/lib/firmware
[2022-08-24T14:59:58Z] <oak> the kiss install guide told me to do so
[2022-08-24T15:00:47Z] <oak> do i need to change "CONFIG_EXTRA_FIRMWARE_DIR" to /usr/lib/firmware?
[2022-08-24T15:02:33Z] <illiliti> that's unnecessary
[2022-08-24T15:02:41Z] <oak> why?
[2022-08-24T15:02:59Z] <illiliti> because default value is /lib/firmware
[2022-08-24T15:03:32Z] <oak> ok, ill just copy it over to /lib/firmware
[2022-08-24T15:03:48Z] <illiliti> you can change it if you like though. it won't hurt
[2022-08-24T15:04:27Z] <oak> ok
[2022-08-24T15:05:27Z] <oak> i have one more question, do i just keep on pasting this and adding the other .bin names?:"amdgpu/<name>.bin amdgpu/<name2>.bin ...\"
[2022-08-24T15:09:08Z] <phoebos> someone used a glob but I've never seen it anywhere else
[2022-08-24T15:09:22Z] <phoebos> I don't know that it doesn't work, though...
[2022-08-24T15:09:40Z] <phoebos> but oak: yes, separated by spaces
[2022-08-24T15:10:01Z] <oak> do i remove the " or not?
[2022-08-24T15:11:17Z] <phoebos> CONFIG_EXTRA_FIRMWARE="a b c"
[2022-08-24T15:11:37Z] <phoebos> but if you're writing in in menuconfig there's no need for quotes, I think
[2022-08-24T15:11:42Z] <oak> ok
[2022-08-24T15:11:45Z] <oak> yeah im in menuconfig
[2022-08-24T15:13:11Z] <wael[m]> press slash
[2022-08-24T15:13:12Z] <wael[m]> and type CONFIG_EXTRA_FIRMWARE
[2022-08-24T15:13:21Z] <wael[m]> then you can find where its located and you can add the paths there of some sort
[2022-08-24T15:14:25Z] <oak> i know
[2022-08-24T15:14:29Z] <oak> ive used menuconfig before
[2022-08-24T15:14:47Z] <oak> amdgpu/<name>.bin amdgpu/<name2>.bin ...\ amdgpu/<name>.bin amdgpu/<name2>.bin ...\ do i do it like this?
[2022-08-24T15:17:41Z] <phoebos> well yes, without the ellipses and backslashes
[2022-08-24T15:18:40Z] <oak> ooh ok
[2022-08-24T15:18:40Z] <oak> thanks
[2022-08-24T15:24:00Z] <vouivre> could you tell me when you have time for two questions ?
[2022-08-24T15:25:10Z] <midfavila> who's that directed at? me or someone else?
[2022-08-24T15:26:05Z] <vouivre> there was a discussion before, oak had a problem with the kernel compilation
[2022-08-24T15:26:13Z] <midfavila> aaah
[2022-08-24T15:26:14Z] <illiliti> oak: also enable CONFIG_CHECKPOINT_RESTORE
[2022-08-24T15:26:22Z] <oak> ok
[2022-08-24T15:26:28Z] <vouivre> I didn't want to interfer and have two discussions at the same time
[2022-08-24T15:27:54Z] <vouivre> Ok, perhaps easier. oak: tell me when your problem is solved. Or pehaps when can do it separately as a private conversation.
[2022-08-24T15:28:21Z] <vouivre> It's directed as somebody who can merge a PR for the package manager or in the repo awesome-kiss
[2022-08-24T15:28:24Z] <oak> wael is helping me on tmate rn, automating using all of the firmware .bins
[2022-08-24T15:29:08Z] <wael[m]> i dont think having all the binaries is a good idea but i guess it works
[2022-08-24T15:29:14Z] <vouivre> oak: do I understand it right, I can start my discussion here ?
[2022-08-24T15:29:25Z] <oak> Yes
[2022-08-24T15:29:34Z] <vouivre> ok, thanks!
[2022-08-24T15:30:15Z] <vouivre> I still have to learn how it works on irc :-)
[2022-08-24T15:30:42Z] <midfavila> https://github.com/ziyao233/musl-tcc
[2022-08-24T15:30:44Z] <midfavila> interesting project
[2022-08-24T15:30:50Z] <vouivre> first question: I have mentionned it before.
[2022-08-24T15:31:35Z] <vouivre> would it be possible to restore kiss-revert ? Or because its use case is very limited, we could add it in awesome-kiss
[2022-08-24T15:32:29Z] <phoebos> it's possible, but why? if you want to use it, then do
[2022-08-24T15:32:55Z] <vouivre> perhaps my workflow can be improved, I don't know
[2022-08-24T15:33:19Z] <vouivre> when I create a package, I try to compile it in a chroot
[2022-08-24T15:33:37Z] <midfavila> fwiw if you're tinkering in chroots having an automated reversion utility is really nice
[2022-08-24T15:33:42Z] <midfavila> i was thinking of writing one last night
[2022-08-24T15:33:58Z] <phoebos> certainly, but it doesn't need to be in the repo for you to use it
[2022-08-24T15:34:00Z] <vouivre> I begin with no dependencies and add them until the build succeeds
[2022-08-24T15:34:13Z] <illiliti> this script has its use case. i see no point why we can't restore it
[2022-08-24T15:34:27Z] <midfavila> ^
[2022-08-24T15:34:29Z] <vouivre> I think other maintainer could use it
[2022-08-24T15:34:42Z] <vouivre> but perhaps I'm the only one with this workflow :-)
[2022-08-24T15:35:06Z] <vouivre> and to be honest I didn't understand the reason why Dylan dropped it.
[2022-08-24T15:35:12Z] <illiliti> we just need to do it properly
[2022-08-24T15:35:22Z] <midfavila> yeah
[2022-08-24T15:35:25Z] <midfavila> the original kiss-reset is uh
[2022-08-24T15:35:25Z] <vouivre> I assume this script has to be maintained and I could maintain it.
[2022-08-24T15:35:26Z] <midfavila> crap
[2022-08-24T15:35:47Z] <vouivre> what would you change ?
[2022-08-24T15:35:56Z] <midfavila> the fact that core is hardcoded
[2022-08-24T15:36:14Z] <midfavila> i've just been using ls, sort and uniq to revert my system as of late
[2022-08-24T15:36:30Z] <illiliti> instead of hardcoding a list of packages, we should make a list from core repo
[2022-08-24T15:36:41Z] * midfavila nod-nods
[2022-08-24T15:37:05Z] <vouivre> so ok to write a script and do a PR in the repository "kiss" ?
[2022-08-24T15:37:14Z] <vouivre> it will be a good exercise for me :-)
[2022-08-24T15:37:17Z] <wael[m]> how do you set a kiss package to a specific branch/head ?
[2022-08-24T15:37:24Z] <midfavila> i don't think you do
[2022-08-24T15:37:28Z] <midfavila> it's either git or not
[2022-08-24T15:37:39Z] <midfavila> you could probably edit the buildfile
[2022-08-24T15:37:42Z] <phoebos> @branch
[2022-08-24T15:37:47Z] <midfavila> or that
[2022-08-24T15:37:48Z] <phoebos> #commit
[2022-08-24T15:37:55Z] <illiliti> vouivre: yes
[2022-08-24T15:38:03Z] <phoebos> check the package manager wiki page
[2022-08-24T15:38:06Z] <midfavila> ~~full disclaimer i don't track upstream so i don't know anything about modern kiss~~
[2022-08-24T15:38:09Z] <vouivre> illiliti: thank you!
[2022-08-24T15:38:19Z] <wael[m]> thanks
[2022-08-24T15:39:01Z] <vouivre> second question: I have submitted a new package in community. It's a bootloader: limine.
[2022-08-24T15:39:01Z] <phoebos> comm(1) seems like the quickest way to do it
[2022-08-24T15:39:24Z] <vouivre> There is not a lot of documentation about how to set it up.
[2022-08-24T15:40:03Z] <vouivre> If it's accepted, where would be the best place to put some documentation.
[2022-08-24T15:40:14Z] <vouivre> Here it seems not bad
[2022-08-24T15:40:16Z] <vouivre> https://kisscommunity.bvnf.space/boot/
[2022-08-24T15:40:32Z] <phoebos> you can write a README or a page for the community wiki
[2022-08-24T15:40:34Z] <phoebos> yes!
[2022-08-24T15:40:56Z] <vouivre> perhaps I will be the only one to use it, but who knows, perhaps one time somebody else will use it
[2022-08-24T15:41:07Z] <phoebos> the README would be readable like `kiss help limine`
[2022-08-24T15:41:22Z] <vouivre> phoebos: yes I think to those two possibilities...... hhhmmmm
[2022-08-24T15:41:37Z] <phoebos> up to you. more documentation is always better
[2022-08-24T15:42:00Z] <vouivre> you convinced me to write a README ;-).
[2022-08-24T15:42:08Z] <illiliti> midfavila: i'm thinking about rewriting musl makefile in posix make
[2022-08-24T15:42:19Z] <illiliti> with those tcc patches + posix make we could have pretty suckless libc
[2022-08-24T15:42:57Z] <vouivre> thank you
[2022-08-24T16:08:59Z] <midfavila> go for it
[2022-08-24T16:09:14Z] <midfavila> although for what it's worth musl-tcc seems to have trouble with dynamic linking
[2022-08-24T16:09:26Z] <midfavila> usr/lib/libc.so segfaults
[2022-08-24T16:09:27Z] <midfavila> . _.
[2022-08-24T16:26:50Z] <wael[m]> phoebos: illiliti: oak is still unable to boot, same thing even with the firmwares specified
[2022-08-24T16:28:23Z] <wael[m]> he wants to do an initramfs but i dont think it will do anything if at all
[2022-08-24T16:30:01Z] <illiliti> say him to try to make config with make localyesconfig
[2022-08-24T16:30:18Z] <wael[m]> what would that do
[2022-08-24T16:30:36Z] <wael[m]> i know it would redo the entire configuration from scratch and the user has to do y n on each question but what would that fix
[2022-08-24T16:33:40Z] <illiliti> it creates a config specific to current hardware
[2022-08-24T16:33:58Z] <wael[m]> i never knew that
[2022-08-24T16:34:01Z] <wael[m]> oh what
[2022-08-24T16:34:29Z] <wael[m]> it wants to use hte mint kernel, how do i specify it to base a configuration off of?
[2022-08-24T16:35:01Z] <testuser[m]12> <illiliti> "this script has its use case..." <- it'll break if you have some coreutils alternatives set to anything other tha. Busybox
[2022-08-24T16:35:22Z] <ioraff> boot mint, download the kernel source, then in the source directory run make localyesconfig.
[2022-08-24T16:35:59Z] <wael[m]> nono, the kernel oak is trying to build is 5.19.3, localyesconfig wants to use the mint kernel configuration from /proc/config.gz on the host system
[2022-08-24T16:36:08Z] <wael[m]> aka 5.13.5-generic blah blah
[2022-08-24T16:36:50Z] <illiliti> testuser[m]12: i said that we shouldn't hardcode a list with busybox. we should make that list dynamically based on user core repo
[2022-08-24T16:37:00Z] <illiliti> this way nothing will break
[2022-08-24T16:37:01Z] <wael[m]> nvm made it use a existing config, now just erroring with zcommon config not found!!
[2022-08-24T16:37:30Z] <testuser[m]12> It's still have to check alternatives tho
[2022-08-24T16:38:31Z] <illiliti> no
[2022-08-24T16:40:14Z] <illiliti> we shouldn't check them
[2022-08-24T16:40:23Z] <illiliti> imho it's up to user to fix them
[2022-08-24T16:40:50Z] <illiliti> because if we implement checking, that would be a mess
[2022-08-24T16:40:57Z] <testuser[m]12> then shouldn't it be up to user to decide wat to remove
[2022-08-24T16:41:46Z] <illiliti> no
[2022-08-24T16:42:28Z] <illiliti> we don't need a perfect script that will work in all cases
[2022-08-24T16:43:57Z] <illiliti> it's fine to have limitations. just document them maybe
[2022-08-24T16:47:00Z] <testuser[m]12> Also
[2022-08-24T16:47:04Z] <testuser[m]12> We need to come up with some system to make decisions
[2022-08-24T16:54:44Z] <midfavila> polls obviously
[2022-08-24T16:54:50Z] <midfavila> nothing has ever gone wrong with polls
[2022-08-24T16:54:51Z] <midfavila> :^)
[2022-08-24T16:55:05Z] <wael[m]> communism
[2022-08-24T16:55:31Z] <midfavila> for all you cproc users out there, what assembler and linker do you use?
[2022-08-24T16:57:10Z] <testuser[m]12> We need to decide on
[2022-08-24T16:57:10Z] <testuser[m]12> implicit vs explicit destdir
[2022-08-24T16:57:10Z] <testuser[m]12> VERSION markers
[2022-08-24T16:57:10Z] <testuser[m]12> writing parts of kiss in C
[2022-08-24T16:58:27Z] <illiliti> midfavila: how about something extreme like neat{as,ld}
[2022-08-24T16:58:54Z] <testuser[m]12> provides system
[2022-08-24T16:59:07Z] <illiliti> but seriously, gnu as/ld
[2022-08-24T16:59:49Z] <midfavila> rip
[2022-08-24T17:00:02Z] <midfavila> using binutils kind of defeats the simplicity advantage of something like cproc i think
[2022-08-24T17:00:05Z] <phoebos> > all you cproc users
[2022-08-24T17:00:13Z] <phoebos> mid you're overestimating us
[2022-08-24T17:00:18Z] <midfavila> all three of you?
[2022-08-24T17:00:29Z] <midfavila> :p
[2022-08-24T17:01:26Z] <phoebos> not that I'm even a member of that group
[2022-08-24T17:01:34Z] <midfavila> kek
[2022-08-24T17:09:57Z] <testuser[m]12> What did acheam use for polls last time
[2022-08-24T17:14:15Z] <noocsharp> midfavila: https://github.com/andrewchambers/minias
[2022-08-24T17:14:39Z] <noocsharp> although not sure how well it works
[2022-08-24T17:18:00Z] <testuser[m]12> > The implementation deliberately does not free allocated memory as it all is freed by the OS at the end of execution. Memory usage is still quite light as it uses string and value interning. In the future we could use an arena allocator for minias and still avoid manual calls to free.
[2022-08-24T17:18:03Z] <testuser[m]12> sus
[2022-08-24T17:20:09Z] <illiliti> no it's ok
[2022-08-24T17:20:44Z] <illiliti> mold doesn't free too iirc
[2022-08-24T17:40:59Z] <phoebos> obsd doesn't free accessible memory
[2022-08-24T17:41:15Z] <phoebos> acheam probably just used an html form
[2022-08-24T18:04:46Z] <midfavila> >minias
[2022-08-24T18:04:48Z] <midfavila> neat
[2022-08-24T18:04:52Z] <midfavila> will need to check it out
[2022-08-24T18:05:07Z] <midfavila> ...as soon as I find a way to get a non-bash shell to compile under the new chroot
[2022-08-24T18:05:52Z] <midfavila> ksh fails at link time with an unknown symbol error and dash includes gnuisms, so i'll need to patch one of those or find a replacement
[2022-08-24T18:06:16Z] <illiliti> oksh?
[2022-08-24T18:06:22Z] <midfavila> openbsd korn shell
[2022-08-24T18:06:47Z] <illiliti> and? does it work?
[2022-08-24T18:07:08Z] <midfavila> oh, my bad, i misinterpreted what you meant-
[2022-08-24T18:07:10Z] <midfavila> i'm using oksh
[2022-08-24T18:07:22Z] <midfavila> it's the ksh that fails to build
[2022-08-24T18:07:37Z] <midfavila> amusingly bash builds just fine
[2022-08-24T18:07:41Z] <illiliti> ah
[2022-08-24T18:07:46Z] <midfavila> but oksh and dash lose their minds
[2022-08-24T18:07:58Z] <illiliti> what about yash
[2022-08-24T18:08:09Z] <midfavila> i've tried using yash with kiss before, it doesn't work
[2022-08-24T18:08:12Z] <midfavila> there are weird edge cases
[2022-08-24T18:09:23Z] <illiliti> strange
[2022-08-24T18:18:08Z] <midfavila> https://github.com/aperezdc/esh
[2022-08-24T18:18:21Z] <midfavila> this is really cool
[2022-08-24T18:18:30Z] <midfavila> allows for intermixing of lisp and unix program calls
[2022-08-24T18:18:38Z] <midfavila> seems completely self-contained too
[2022-08-24T18:18:57Z] <midfavila> to get it to compile with netbsd curses you'll need to add #include <term.h> to the start of esh.c though
[2022-08-24T18:19:03Z] <midfavila> not sure about ncurses
[2022-08-24T18:20:04Z] <midfavila> for some reason it doesn't like being executed from within rc
[2022-08-24T18:22:26Z] <illiliti> makefile is gnu
[2022-08-24T18:37:08Z] <midfavila> looks like dash uses a gnuism
[2022-08-24T18:37:12Z] <midfavila> not terribly surprised
[2022-08-24T18:37:15Z] <midfavila> sys_siglist
[2022-08-24T18:37:23Z] <midfavila> they learned about it over two years ago though
[2022-08-24T19:00:33Z] <midfavila> hrm
[2022-08-24T19:00:41Z] <midfavila> tcc and yash don't seem to like each other much either
[2022-08-24T19:06:14Z] <illiliti> works fine for me
[2022-08-24T19:06:19Z] <illiliti> log?
[2022-08-24T19:06:38Z] <midfavila> no compile failure
[2022-08-24T19:06:40Z] <midfavila> it's a runtime issue
[2022-08-24T19:06:59Z] <illiliti> what kind of issue?
[2022-08-24T19:07:16Z] <midfavila> fails to print a prompt and doesn't seem to look up program names in PATH
[2022-08-24T19:07:24Z] <midfavila> i'm sure there are others but those are the most immediately noticable
[2022-08-24T19:09:44Z] <illiliti> hm
[2022-08-24T19:12:37Z] <Ogromny> hum, little question, why not move kiss-community/* on codeberg ?
[2022-08-24T19:12:52Z] <Ogromny> I mean github is ok, but microshit, etc
[2022-08-24T19:19:54Z] <illiliti> midfavila: could be a problem with wide char literals
[2022-08-24T19:20:05Z] <midfavila> i bet you you're right
[2022-08-24T19:21:41Z] <vouivre> exit
[2022-08-24T19:22:08Z] <testuser[m]12> Ogromny: someone wants mailing list someone wants sourcehut someone wants codeberg
[2022-08-24T19:22:24Z] <midfavila> mailing list is the only valid option
[2022-08-24T19:22:25Z] <midfavila> fact
[2022-08-24T19:22:46Z] <midfavila> anyway i'm sure if people actually cared they could write something to export the mailing list to sourcehut and etc
[2022-08-24T19:23:31Z] <testuser[m]12> there's like 5 "people" lol
[2022-08-24T19:23:56Z] <midfavila> for some reason my brain interpreted the quotations around people as implying that sourcehut users aren't people
[2022-08-24T19:24:06Z] <phoebos> to be fair
[2022-08-24T19:24:20Z] <midfavila> sourcehut "users"
[2022-08-24T19:24:25Z] * midfavila does massive fingerquotes
[2022-08-24T19:24:34Z] <midfavila> "pee-pull"
[2022-08-24T19:24:46Z] * phoebos sideeyes
[2022-08-24T19:25:41Z] <phoebos> anyway, it's just frontends to a git repo
[2022-08-24T19:26:48Z] <phoebos> and it seems most KISS to host the canonical upstream on a server rather than a forge
[2022-08-24T19:26:53Z] <illiliti> nack on sr.ht
[2022-08-24T19:28:15Z] <testuser[m]12> Why
[2022-08-24T19:29:26Z] <testuser[m]12> I'd say codeberg cuz it provides familiar PR workflow
[2022-08-24T19:29:31Z] <testuser[m]12> Mailing list can always be there as Its host agnostic
[2022-08-24T19:31:08Z] <illiliti> self-hosted sr.ht is fine, "that" sr.ht is not ok
[2022-08-24T19:31:30Z] <illiliti> because drew is unreliable
[2022-08-24T19:31:36Z] <midfavila> REEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE
[2022-08-24T19:31:39Z] <midfavila> DREW BASED!!!
[2022-08-24T19:31:53Z] <illiliti> he can ban people at his own will
[2022-08-24T19:32:15Z] <illiliti> i got threatened by him recently
[2022-08-24T19:32:25Z] <phoebos> eek why
[2022-08-24T19:32:26Z] <midfavila> tell him to neck himself
[2022-08-24T19:32:39Z] <midfavila> or meet you outside of the local mcdonalds after class
[2022-08-24T19:32:46Z] <midfavila> only appropriate responses
[2022-08-24T19:34:31Z] <illiliti> for saying "not good"
[2022-08-24T19:34:45Z] <midfavila> lmao what a loser
[2022-08-24T19:34:51Z] <midfavila> just ignore him
[2022-08-24T19:37:19Z] <midfavila> actually, you know what a real chad move would be
[2022-08-24T19:37:40Z] <midfavila> take his code and make it better and then refuse to let him use your modifications
[2022-08-24T19:37:41Z] * midfavila nod-nods
[2022-08-24T19:37:56Z] <midfavila> the "everyone but drew devault" license
[2022-08-24T19:39:50Z] <illiliti> that would violate DFSG
[2022-08-24T19:40:04Z] <midfavila> debian is cringe and stupid
[2022-08-24T19:40:05Z] <illiliti> and actually such license isn't open-source
[2022-08-24T19:40:20Z] <illiliti> agree debian sucks
[2022-08-24T19:40:32Z] <illiliti> but DFSG isn't
[2022-08-24T19:41:14Z] * midfavila shrugs
[2022-08-24T19:46:06Z] <ioraff> illiliti: is that threat on a public ML?
[2022-08-24T19:46:48Z] <illiliti> irc
[2022-08-24T20:01:41Z] <testuser[m]12> Send
[2022-08-24T20:07:56Z] <illiliti> https://termbin.com/ljgs
[2022-08-24T20:11:33Z] <illiliti> policing me for nothing is kinda dumb as you see
[2022-08-24T20:35:09Z] <ehawkvu> Regarding the decisions that testuser[m]12 brought up, I think it'd be nice to have a repo, potentially called 'guidestones' where we outline what we want kiss to be like
[2022-08-24T20:36:02Z] <ehawkvu> We can even take the old guidestones and adjust them to our liking
[2022-08-24T20:37:23Z] <ehawkvu> also re: VERSION - it is way too useful, and makes packaging big projects (like X) very nice
[2022-08-24T20:37:36Z] <ehawkvu> I do get the criticism though
[2022-08-24T20:52:45Z] <phinxy> why does libglvnd have installed file conflicts with mesa? How would I go about building mesa, remove libglvnd first and then rebuilt it?
[2022-08-24T20:53:28Z] <phoebos> do you have alternatives disabled?
[2022-08-24T20:54:29Z] <Ogromny> illiliti: lol drew is dumb af here
[2022-08-24T20:54:29Z] <phoebos> (KISS_CHOICE=0)
[2022-08-24T20:54:46Z] <phinxy> No
[2022-08-24T20:56:23Z] <phinxy> Should I have alternatives disabled when installing either mesa or libglvnd?
[2022-08-24T20:57:58Z] <phinxy> mesa libEGL.so, libGLESv2.so .. are in kiss alternatives after rebuilding mesa.
[2022-08-24T21:03:54Z] <midfavila> so
[2022-08-24T21:04:04Z] <midfavila> figured out the problem with netbsd curses and some other stuff
[2022-08-24T21:04:18Z] <midfavila> turns out? i forgot that i was using a recuse compiler i passed the chroot from my host system
[2022-08-24T21:04:26Z] <midfavila> s/recsue/rescue/
[2022-08-24T21:04:32Z] <midfavila> recuse
[2022-08-24T21:04:40Z] <midfavila> can't even spell my mispellings
[2022-08-24T21:05:02Z] <phoebos> phinxy: what's the problem
[2022-08-24T21:09:38Z] <phinxy> Trying dri driver instead of gallium. Not sure if its applied unless I swap libglvnd alternative to mesa alternative
[2022-08-24T21:12:49Z] <phinxy> OH, libglvnd only replaces .so and leaves the .so.VERSION of mesa?
[2022-08-24T21:39:22Z] <ioraff> the mesa build script should detect whether libglvnd is installed change a meson flag accordingly
[2022-08-24T21:39:39Z] <ioraff> s/change/and change/
[2022-08-24T22:15:47Z] <midfavila> can one of you guys post the result of running nm on /lib/libc.a ?
[2022-08-24T22:16:03Z] <midfavila> i want to see if anyone else's static musl has the abort symbol set to 0
[2022-08-24T22:16:29Z] <midfavila> (admittedly it seems like a lot of functions are set to 0...)
[2022-08-24T22:16:58Z] <midfavila> i'm trying to figure out what the hell is going with tcc and musl during linktime, where programs claim to not have access to abort if things are static