💾 Archived View for gemini.ctrl-c.club › ~phoebos › logs › kisslinux-2022-02-28.txt captured on 2024-03-21 at 15:55:52.

View Raw

More Information

⬅️ Previous capture (2022-03-01)

-=-=-=-=-=-=-

[2022-02-28T04:47:29Z] <testuser[m]> Hi
[2022-02-28T11:14:05Z] <travankor> https://i.ylilauta.org/c9/43/c9437dc8aeae1582.jpg :DDD
[2022-02-28T12:00:53Z] <slkajs43943> Hi
[2022-02-28T13:15:59Z] <slkajs43943> I have a problem. After Linux 5.15 (something changed in the framebuffer) my system stopped booting without video driver. That is, I want to install it after installing the OS itself, I boot in kiss and get stuck on the motherboard logo :(
[2022-02-28T13:16:17Z] <slkajs43943> Before Linux 5.15 everything was working...
[2022-02-28T13:16:50Z] <testuser[m]> what drivers
[2022-02-28T13:18:04Z] <slkajs43943> nouveau
[2022-02-28T13:18:46Z] <slkajs43943> That is, I assume that the system should boot without them
[2022-02-28T13:19:20Z] <slkajs43943> But it doesn't happen
[2022-02-28T13:28:35Z] <slkajs43943> How can I save a dmesg when the system boots?
[2022-02-28T13:37:21Z] <testuser[m]> U don't need drivers to boot into tty
[2022-02-28T13:37:23Z] <testuser[m]> weird
[2022-02-28T13:38:11Z] <midfavila> it's probably getting to a login prompt but not initializing the framebuffer device
[2022-02-28T13:38:32Z] <midfavila> just type in your username and password, and redirect dmesg to a file, then reboot into another OS, mount the drive, and start troubleshooting
[2022-02-28T13:38:57Z] <midfavila> you could also start sshd and ssh in from another machine, if you know the problem machine has a working connection
[2022-02-28T13:43:15Z] <slkajs43943> Thank you so much, I didn't even think of it)
[2022-02-28T13:43:16Z] <slkajs43943> I'll write when I'm successful
[2022-02-28T15:23:09Z] <slkajs43943> Hmm: https://0x0.st/oKhh.txt
[2022-02-28T15:23:37Z] <slkajs43943> He's not even trying
[2022-02-28T15:24:09Z] <testuser[m]> lol
[2022-02-28T15:24:21Z] <testuser[m]> nouveau module is builtin or external?
[2022-02-28T15:24:30Z] <testuser[m]> if external maybe ui forgot to do make modules_install after update
[2022-02-28T15:24:32Z] <slkajs43943> I generated the config through `make defconfig` btw
[2022-02-28T15:24:33Z] <testuser[m]> and depmod
[2022-02-28T15:25:30Z] <slkajs43943> I have tried so far without nouveau, which is also a problem. I thought it would at least run without it
[2022-02-28T15:47:26Z] <slkajs43943> Apparently it has something to do with https://bugs.archlinux.org/task/72645, I have to try
[2022-02-28T16:06:55Z] <slkajs43943> The problem was related to efifb. It was disabled
[2022-02-28T16:07:20Z] <slkajs43943> (by default)
[2022-02-28T17:39:04Z] <testuser[m]> A language designed for the web and yet it only had any support for network requests after 15 years, and up to a couple years ago only had very basic features for modifying web pages, requiring substantial frameworks to do basic things. Things like handling urls, escaping and storing data are completely botched. And then they chose a syntax that is incredibly hard to do performantly.
[2022-02-28T17:39:12Z] <testuser[m]> Only with Google doing a Manhattan project style job on javascript performance we managed to get some level of speed there. I cannot imagine a better language to generate billable hours for us. I thank Brendan Eich on my hands and feet any time I get a paycheck.
[2022-02-28T17:56:26Z] <midfavila> don't thank Eich, he wanted to put Lisp in the browser
[2022-02-28T17:56:30Z] <midfavila> thank Sun
[2022-02-28T17:59:11Z] <testuser[m]> I am 𝗠𝗟 & 𝗗𝗟 (𝗔𝗜) Engineer. 𝗙𝘂𝗹𝗹 𝗦𝘁𝗮𝗰𝗸 𝗗𝗲𝘃𝗲𝗹𝗼𝗽𝗲𝗿. 𝗘𝘁𝗵𝗶𝗰𝗮𝗹 𝗛𝗮𝗰𝗸𝗶𝗻𝗴 Subscribe me on YouTube (it's free!!). Good with 10+ Programming Languages.Including
[2022-02-28T17:59:12Z] <testuser[m]> 𝗜𝗢𝗦, 𝗔𝗻𝗱𝗿𝗼𝗶𝗱 & 𝗙𝗹𝘂𝘁𝘁𝗲𝗿 𝗗𝗲𝘃𝗲𝗹𝗼𝗽𝗺𝗲𝗻𝘁. 𝗚𝗮𝗺𝗲 𝗗𝗲𝘃𝗲𝗹𝗼𝗽𝗺𝗲𝗻𝘁 - 𝙐𝙣𝙞𝙩𝙮 𝗪𝗲𝗯 𝗗𝗲𝘃𝗲𝗹𝗼𝗽𝗺𝗲𝗻𝘁. 𝗧𝗲𝗰𝗵 𝗘𝗻𝘁𝗵𝘂𝘀𝗶𝗮𝘀𝘁𝗶𝗰 𝗜𝗻𝘁𝗿𝗼𝘃𝗲𝗿𝘁 (not completely sometimes) 𝗚𝗮𝗺𝗲𝗿 (born gamer)
[2022-02-28T18:05:50Z] * midfavila grimaces
[2022-02-28T18:05:53Z] <midfavila> Truly the scum of the earth.
[2022-02-28T18:06:02Z] <midfavila> A pox on his line.
[2022-02-28T18:22:19Z] <noocsharp> lisp would probably be a better browser language because nobody would use it since nobody can understand it
[2022-02-28T18:25:50Z] <omanom> (take-back you that)
[2022-02-28T18:30:42Z] <midfavila> is it that nobody can understand it because nobody uses it, or nobody uses it because nobody can understand it? I would argue the former
[2022-02-28T18:30:48Z] <midfavila> the language's semantics aren't very hard to grasp
[2022-02-28T18:31:53Z] <midfavila> i'd further wager that the lack of readily-available libraries for things that are available in other languages holds it back. can blame that on the proliferation of Unix and C, in part, I guess
[2022-02-28T18:32:12Z] <midfavila> JS had an easier go of it because it has at least a passing resemblance to C /shrug
[2022-02-28T18:39:53Z] <testuser[m]> https://i.redd.it/5c3vz8kmt9j01.jpg
[2022-02-28T20:15:21Z] <cem> The thing with lisp is that it's so ugly
[2022-02-28T20:15:45Z] <cem> I think lua would be good on browsers :^)
[2022-02-28T20:15:54Z] <midfavila> idk lisp isn't that ugly
[2022-02-28T20:16:27Z] <cem> It is not god awful as XML
[2022-02-28T20:16:32Z] <midfavila> i maintain that people dislike lisp in a world of C lookalikes because lisp isn't a C lookalike
[2022-02-28T20:16:34Z] <cem> Or on a second thought
[2022-02-28T20:16:39Z] <cem> XML looks better
[2022-02-28T20:17:27Z] <cem> Yeah, honestly that might be the case
[2022-02-28T20:17:35Z] <cem> C is pretty clean, and I love that
[2022-02-28T20:18:05Z] <midfavila> C has dozens of reserved keywords and a bunch of odd symbols. it has its benefits, but cleanliness isn't one of them
[2022-02-28T20:18:25Z] <cem> I will forget to close my 1234th parentheses without a proper text editor and I have no shame about that
[2022-02-28T20:19:01Z] <midfavila> that sounds like a you problem. if you can't keep track of obscene nesting (nobody can, in any language) then just... don't nest things to an absurd degree
[2022-02-28T20:19:22Z] <midfavila> it's fairly easy if you use block structure to your advantage 
[2022-02-28T20:19:47Z] <cem> That was obviously an exaggaration, but yes, it is a me problem
[2022-02-28T20:20:09Z] <midfavila> Oh, I'm well aware of it being exaggerated, and it's not an unfair point - it's just not one that's the fault of Lisp :P 
[2022-02-28T20:20:21Z] <midfavila> I mean, look at loops nested more than two or three times in a C-like
[2022-02-28T20:20:24Z] <midfavila> that's just... no
[2022-02-28T20:20:27Z] <midfavila> you just don't
[2022-02-28T20:20:39Z] <midfavila> because that's way too much state-change for a programmer to reasonably keep in their head at once
[2022-02-28T20:21:42Z] <cem> Too much nesting is bad in any language but it's kind of better to display it on a C-like
[2022-02-28T20:21:59Z] <cem> And I have no problem with the semantics of Lisp
[2022-02-28T20:22:04Z] <cem> It's a neat language
[2022-02-28T20:22:18Z] <cem> But seeing huge libraries in Lisp makes me dizzy
[2022-02-28T20:22:27Z] <cem> Especially Guille
[2022-02-28T20:22:37Z] <midfavila> Guile is, unfortunately, GNU
[2022-02-28T20:23:03Z] <midfavila> you should look at S9, Scheme48 or MIT/GNU Scheme if you want a clean, classic implementation of Scheme
[2022-02-28T20:23:09Z] <cem> Yes, I'm not using it anyway, but I once got curious and delved into their packaging
[2022-02-28T20:23:17Z] <midfavila> i'm sorry you had to experience that
[2022-02-28T20:23:25Z] <cem> Oh sorry I meant guix not guile
[2022-02-28T20:23:28Z] <midfavila> i tried using guile once as part of guix and it was terrible
[2022-02-28T20:23:34Z] <midfavila> guix isn't documented at all
[2022-02-28T20:24:18Z] <cem> Yeah guile is really slow too
[2022-02-28T20:24:25Z] <cem> And like takes ages to compile
[2022-02-28T20:25:11Z] <cem> I dislike anything that takes more than 10 minutes on my machine to compile :C
[2022-02-28T20:26:07Z] <cem> Okay, more like 5 minutes
[2022-02-28T20:26:21Z] <midfavila> so my machine is obviously not representative of most but I just compiled s9 from git in about five seconds
[2022-02-28T20:26:31Z] <midfavila> like it took longer to clone than to build
[2022-02-28T20:27:29Z] <cem> How's s9?
[2022-02-28T20:27:34Z] <cem> never tried it
[2022-02-28T20:28:09Z] <midfavila> It's a good implementation to learn from, and it works on Unix and Plan 9 alike
[2022-02-28T20:28:14Z] <midfavila> the former has a greater system library though
[2022-02-28T20:28:24Z] <midfavila> networking, curses, mathematics, and so forth
[2022-02-28T20:28:46Z] <midfavila> it's not the fastest scheme by far, and it can't be compiled to a native binary, but it's extremely simple in implementation and is documented in its own book
[2022-02-28T20:29:04Z] <midfavila> it's also quite small on disk - fat install is 2mb
[2022-02-28T20:29:09Z] <midfavila> highly recommended
[2022-02-28T20:29:54Z] <cem> ah, I couldn't find it
[2022-02-28T20:29:58Z] <midfavila> obligatory "it's packaged in my repo"
[2022-02-28T20:30:06Z] <midfavila> https://git.sdf.org/midfavila/kiss-mfavila
[2022-02-28T20:30:16Z] <midfavila> s9-git
[2022-02-28T20:30:25Z] <midfavila> under ports/unofficial/rolling/
[2022-02-28T20:30:27Z] <cem> :^))))
[2022-02-28T20:30:30Z] <cem> thanks
[2022-02-28T20:30:38Z] <midfavila> np
[2022-02-28T20:31:01Z] <midfavila> "Please remember to set your S9FES_LIBRARY_PATH to /usr/share/s9fes!"
[2022-02-28T20:31:07Z] <midfavila> otherwise it won't run
[2022-02-28T20:31:12Z] <midfavila> that's the only caveat to be aware of
[2022-02-28T20:35:11Z] <midfavila> 'm thinking of modifying my emacs setup to basically be a stand-in for DrRacket
[2022-02-28T20:35:19Z] <midfavila> because jfc do I ever hate racket with a passion
[2022-02-28T20:35:49Z] <midfavila> slow, building the environment takes a million years, the IDE is clunky and only has one good feature (in my opinion), etc
[2022-02-28T20:36:40Z] <omanom> no Common LlSP?
[2022-02-28T20:37:12Z] <midfavila> scheme is comfier but common lisp is on the chopping block
[2022-02-28T20:37:37Z] <midfavila> i'm rescheduling my studies and scheme will be an important pedagogical tool in the latest revision
[2022-02-28T20:38:07Z] <midfavila> i intend to use it to teach myself practical applications of proofs and to reaffirm my knowledge - w-
[2022-02-28T22:11:59Z] <midfavila> Gah, Geiser is the fucking worst REPL in existence, I swear
[2022-02-28T22:12:03Z] <midfavila> (for emacs, anyway)
[2022-02-28T22:12:32Z] <midfavila> keeps interfering with my minor-modes because it implements its own tab-handling and paren-balancing and shit