💾 Archived View for gemini.ctrl-c.club › ~phoebos › logs › freenode-kisslinux-2020-11-02.txt captured on 2024-03-21 at 16:04:54.
⬅️ Previous capture (2021-12-17)
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2020-11-02T00:01:18 #kisslinux <midfavila> what's even weirder is that stepping through it manually works just fine...
2020-11-02T00:07:13 #kisslinux <dilyn> i mean I'd imagine it still has something to do with decrementing the index
2020-11-02T00:07:22 #kisslinux <midfavila> entirely possible
2020-11-02T00:07:23 #kisslinux <dilyn> i feel like you'd want to use a different variable
2020-11-02T00:07:28 #kisslinux <midfavila> yeah, more than likely
2020-11-02T00:07:46 #kisslinux <midfavila> even if it's just p for pointer
2020-11-02T00:07:56 #kisslinux <dilyn> like you would just make w what x is for the loop and decrement w instead
2020-11-02T00:09:05 #kisslinux <midfavila> okay, waaaaait a minute, I see where some of the problems are coming from
2020-11-02T00:09:20 #kisslinux <midfavila> when yash is called from a script it works in a strictly posix mode
2020-11-02T00:09:25 #kisslinux <midfavila> so no expansion
2020-11-02T00:09:27 #kisslinux <midfavila> or anything
2020-11-02T00:09:29 #kisslinux <midfavila> hmm
2020-11-02T00:09:29 #kisslinux <dilyn> lmfaooooo
2020-11-02T00:09:30 #kisslinux <midfavila> :/
2020-11-02T00:09:35 #kisslinux <midfavila> that might be a bug
2020-11-02T00:09:39 #kisslinux <dilyn> so you could #!/bin/sh and yash $script
2020-11-02T00:09:52 #kisslinux <midfavila> god that's so janky
2020-11-02T00:15:21 #kisslinux <dilyn> the world is jank
2020-11-02T00:15:23 #kisslinux <dilyn> #ifitiworks
2020-11-02T00:15:33 #kisslinux <dilyn> ... I'm too intoxicated to type
2020-11-02T00:25:45 #kisslinux <midfavila> rip
2020-11-02T00:27:26 #kisslinux <midfavila> also, woot, got it working
2020-11-02T00:27:30 #kisslinux <dilyn> nicenicenice
2020-11-02T00:27:34 #kisslinux <midfavila> rewrote the script as purely posix
2020-11-02T00:27:44 #kisslinux <midfavila> so woot for portability I guess
2020-11-02T00:28:21 #kisslinux <dilyn> you're officially a neckbeard programmer, midfavila
2020-11-02T00:28:25 #kisslinux <dilyn> congratulations how does it feel
2020-11-02T00:28:30 #kisslinux <midfavila> underwhelming
2020-11-02T00:28:34 #kisslinux <midfavila> where's my 50k a year job
2020-11-02T00:28:43 #kisslinux <midfavila> and programmer socks
2020-11-02T00:32:15 #kisslinux <dilyn> man if i got 50k for this noise...
2020-11-02T00:33:29 #kisslinux <midfavila> apparently that's like
2020-11-02T00:33:29 #kisslinux <midfavila> the entry level wage for computer security work in my city
2020-11-02T00:33:54 #kisslinux <midfavila> average is closer to 87k
2020-11-02T00:44:40 #kisslinux <dilyn> gimme that job omg
2020-11-02T00:44:54 #kisslinux <midfavila> if you can afford to drop 24k on tuition :v
2020-11-02T00:45:15 #kisslinux <midfavila> I'm lucky enough to have a scholarship/sponsor/thing
2020-11-02T00:45:29 #kisslinux <dilyn> i've got two degrees and I can't even touch that much money in this position I'm in (:
2020-11-02T00:45:50 #kisslinux <midfavila> unlucky
2020-11-02T00:45:56 #kisslinux <dilyn> never lucky
2020-11-02T00:45:56 #kisslinux <midfavila> you could always do stuff on the side
2020-11-02T00:46:01 #kisslinux <midfavila> on like, hackerone or whatever
2020-11-02T00:46:03 #kisslinux <dilyn> mayhaps
2020-11-02T00:46:17 #kisslinux <dilyn> i spent eighteen months working at starbucks; i am the stereotype of my degrees lmao
2020-11-02T00:46:26 #kisslinux <midfavila> gender studies and philosophy?
2020-11-02T00:49:34 #kisslinux <dilyn> philosophy and maths
2020-11-02T00:49:41 #kisslinux <midfavila> Haha, 50% again
2020-11-02T00:49:47 #kisslinux <dilyn> although my philosophy focused a little bit on gender studies :P
2020-11-02T00:49:47 #kisslinux <midfavila> maths is interesting enough
2020-11-02T00:49:55 #kisslinux <midfavila> gender studies, not so much
2020-11-02T00:50:02 #kisslinux <midfavila> no offense
2020-11-02T00:50:02 #kisslinux <midfavila> :v
2020-11-02T00:50:11 #kisslinux <dilyn> lol
2020-11-02T00:50:17 #kisslinux <dilyn> i mean on my view gender studies is boring
2020-11-02T00:50:34 #kisslinux <dilyn> but that's just because gender is vacuous
2020-11-02T00:51:53 #kisslinux <midfavila> *shrug*
2020-11-02T00:52:15 #kisslinux <dilyn> precisely
2020-11-02T00:52:37 #kisslinux <midfavila> people get way too invested in this shit.
2020-11-02T00:52:39 #kisslinux <midfavila> just like
2020-11-02T00:52:41 #kisslinux <midfavila> v i b e
2020-11-02T00:52:49 #kisslinux <dilyn> lmfaoooooo
2020-11-02T00:52:59 #kisslinux <midfavila> embrace the Diogenes aesthetic
2020-11-02T00:53:00 #kisslinux <dilyn> if people accepted my view that's what the outcome would be xD
2020-11-02T00:53:07 #kisslinux <dilyn> a e s t h e t i c
2020-11-02T00:53:23 #kisslinux <midfavila> living-in-a-barrel-telling-Alexander-the-Great-to-fuck-off-aesthetic
2020-11-02T00:53:41 #kisslinux <midfavila> what a chad
2020-11-02T00:53:55 #kisslinux <dilyn> the first chad
2020-11-02T00:53:57 #kisslinux <dilyn> the original chad
2020-11-02T00:54:07 #kisslinux <midfavila> p much
2020-11-02T00:54:22 #kisslinux <midfavila> if you haven't read about Diogenes you should
2020-11-02T00:54:25 #kisslinux <midfavila> dude was fucking wild
2020-11-02T00:54:36 #kisslinux <midfavila> had *all* the chill
2020-11-02T00:55:02 #kisslinux <dilyn> i was a cynic for most of high school and college xD
2020-11-02T00:55:07 #kisslinux <midfavila> now wait
2020-11-02T00:55:19 #kisslinux <dilyn> cynicism is basically the definition of chill v i b e s
2020-11-02T00:55:23 #kisslinux <midfavila> cynic-cynic or kneeling-at-football-games-grumbling-at-tv-cynic
2020-11-02T00:55:35 #kisslinux <dilyn> philosophical cynic xD
2020-11-02T00:55:38 #kisslinux <midfavila> based
2020-11-02T00:55:42 #kisslinux <dilyn> i'm nothing if not rigorous
2020-11-02T00:56:02 #kisslinux <midfavila> I like a lot of what classical cynicism presents, at least in regards to minimalism
2020-11-02T00:56:05 #kisslinux <midfavila> in case you couldn't guess
2020-11-02T00:56:24 #kisslinux <dilyn> i feel like most of the #kisslinux community is similar
2020-11-02T00:56:37 #kisslinux <midfavila> ooo, we should have sunday funday philosophy nights
2020-11-02T00:56:59 #kisslinux <dilyn> i feel like that could get cancerous v fast xD
2020-11-02T00:57:07 #kisslinux <midfavila> honestly yeah
2020-11-02T00:57:16 #kisslinux <midfavila> I treat philosophies the same way I do religion
2020-11-02T00:57:55 #kisslinux <midfavila> although it's nice to be able to have an open discussion about both
2020-11-02T00:58:01 #kisslinux <midfavila> even if that's getting more and more rare as of late
2020-11-02T01:00:21 #kisslinux <dilyn> tbh it's never been possible to have such discussions
2020-11-02T01:00:34 #kisslinux <dilyn> at least not in my life since ~2008
2020-11-02T01:00:53 #kisslinux <dilyn> the only thing that has changed is the lack of interest in certain groups to engage at any level with any argument :S
2020-11-02T01:01:05 #kisslinux <dilyn> so if you find yourself in the right community, discussions can thrive
2020-11-02T01:01:11 #kisslinux <dilyn> but those are smaller and harder to find than before
2020-11-02T01:09:58 #kisslinux <midfavila> sorry for dying for a hot minute
2020-11-02T01:10:07 #kisslinux <midfavila> my home partition randomly decided to shit the bed
2020-11-02T01:10:17 #kisslinux <midfavila> and I had to unpack a backup archive
2020-11-02T01:10:52 #kisslinux <midfavila> thanks, XFS!
2020-11-02T01:12:51 #kisslinux <dilyn> i love that...
2020-11-02T01:13:27 #kisslinux <midfavila> was in the middle of improving that script from earlier, too
2020-11-02T01:13:32 #kisslinux <midfavila> and now I have to go see what's missing
2020-11-02T01:13:46 #kisslinux <dilyn> oh lordy
2020-11-02T01:14:11 #kisslinux <midfavila> I'm trying to get aplay to work with FVWM to play sounds on events
2020-11-02T01:14:21 #kisslinux <midfavila> but as far as I can tell aplay only likes wavs
2020-11-02T01:14:24 #kisslinux <midfavila> (hence the script)
2020-11-02T01:14:45 #kisslinux <midfavila> normally I'd use mplayer or mpv but spawning and killing instances every few seconds is not good for my CPU
2020-11-02T01:18:37 #kisslinux <dilyn> hmhmhm
2020-11-02T01:18:42 #kisslinux <dilyn> interesante
2020-11-02T01:19:17 #kisslinux <midfavila> something like that
2020-11-02T01:19:21 #kisslinux <midfavila> but also aplay is more portable
2020-11-02T01:19:26 #kisslinux <midfavila> which is a very nice bonus
2020-11-02T02:26:10 #kisslinux <sh4rm4^bnc> <midfavila> x=`ls | grep aiff | wc -l`
2020-11-02T02:26:10 #kisslinux <sh4rm4^bnc> <midfavila> for i in {1..$x}
2020-11-02T02:26:23 #kisslinux <sh4rm4^bnc> couldnt you just do for x in '*.aiff'
2020-11-02T02:26:37 #kisslinux <sh4rm4^bnc> uh, without the quotes actually
2020-11-02T02:26:45 #kisslinux <midfavila> ...*can* you?
2020-11-02T02:26:47 #kisslinux <midfavila> I had no idea
2020-11-02T02:26:54 #kisslinux <midfavila> I'm still learning a lot about scripting.
2020-11-02T02:27:15 #kisslinux <sh4rm4^bnc> thanks for mentioning yash though, seems like a nice shell
2020-11-02T02:27:19 #kisslinux <midfavila> It is!
2020-11-02T02:27:32 #kisslinux <midfavila> I'm still working out some of the quirks, but it's perfect for me
2020-11-02T02:27:38 #kisslinux <sh4rm4^bnc> binary size is a third of bash
2020-11-02T02:27:51 #kisslinux <sh4rm4^bnc> i just ported my .bashrc to it
2020-11-02T02:27:55 #kisslinux <midfavila> close to dash in terms of speed by my estimate, but it still has plenty of nice features for interactive use
2020-11-02T02:28:00 #kisslinux <sh4rm4^bnc> had to remove a couple bashisms...
2020-11-02T02:29:03 #kisslinux <sh4rm4^bnc> kinda unexpected that it doesnt recognize echo -ne
2020-11-02T02:30:33 #kisslinux <sh4rm4^bnc> how did you benchmark speed?
2020-11-02T02:31:15 #kisslinux <midfavila> Oh, it wasn't terribly intensive. I could run something more in-depth, but it's just based on my boot times
2020-11-02T02:31:29 #kisslinux <midfavila> under a different distro, mind. so it's mostly anecdote
2020-11-02T02:31:34 #kisslinux <sh4rm4^bnc> you symlinked it to /bin/sh ?
2020-11-02T02:31:40 #kisslinux <midfavila> Yeah.
2020-11-02T02:31:49 #kisslinux <midfavila> I always link it to /bin/sh.
2020-11-02T02:32:25 #kisslinux <sh4rm4^bnc> i'm using busybox ash for that, which should be almost like dash
2020-11-02T02:32:41 #kisslinux <midfavila> ash is more featureful than dash
2020-11-02T02:32:46 #kisslinux <midfavila> and thank god for that
2020-11-02T02:32:50 #kisslinux <sh4rm4^bnc> though its possible the busybox guys made some speed vs binary size compromises
2020-11-02T02:33:08 #kisslinux <midfavila> dash doesn't even have command editing support or history
2020-11-02T02:33:13 #kisslinux <midfavila> it's painful to use
2020-11-02T02:33:21 #kisslinux <midfavila> at least interactively
2020-11-02T02:33:28 #kisslinux <midfavila> which... admittedly isn't its purpose.
2020-11-02T02:33:35 #kisslinux <sh4rm4^bnc> isnt that the default shell on ubuntu
2020-11-02T02:33:43 #kisslinux <midfavila> Nope.
2020-11-02T02:33:50 #kisslinux <midfavila> Default shell on ubuntu for interactive use is bash
2020-11-02T02:33:57 #kisslinux <sh4rm4^bnc> no as sh
2020-11-02T02:34:01 #kisslinux <midfavila> I think they adopted dash as the default /bin/sh, tho
2020-11-02T02:34:10 #kisslinux <midfavila> since Debian did it.
2020-11-02T02:35:34 #kisslinux <sh4rm4^bnc> anyway try out for x in *.aiff ; do echo $x ; done
2020-11-02T02:36:09 #kisslinux <midfavila> ...huh!
2020-11-02T02:36:46 #kisslinux <sh4rm4^bnc> parsing ls output is super fragile
2020-11-02T02:37:28 #kisslinux <midfavila> Why's that, if I can ask?
2020-11-02T02:38:03 #kisslinux <sh4rm4^bnc> traditionally impls have different output, for example mine prints in 2 rows
2020-11-02T02:38:13 #kisslinux <sh4rm4^bnc> then there's spaces in filenames etc
2020-11-02T02:38:21 #kisslinux <midfavila> Ah, yeah. That makes sense
2020-11-02T02:39:27 #kisslinux <sh4rm4^bnc> s/rows/cols
2020-11-02T02:52:21 #kisslinux <mcf> i think ls isn't allowed to use multiple columns when stdout is not a terminal (unless you pass certain options)
2020-11-02T02:52:44 #kisslinux <mcf> but there are other issues with multibyte characters
2020-11-02T02:59:01 #kisslinux <dilyn> ubuntu made /bin/sh dash a long while back and made bash the interactive shell by default, mainly to speed up their init scripts
2020-11-02T02:59:04 #kisslinux <dilyn> it's what i did :X
2020-11-02T02:59:19 #kisslinux <midfavila> it's what everyone did, haha
2020-11-02T02:59:25 #kisslinux <dilyn> lol
2020-11-02T02:59:47 #kisslinux <dilyn> if you know the output of ls you're fine to use it; the problem is portability (hence the 'implentation dependence' claim)
2020-11-02T03:17:21 #kisslinux <sh4rm4^bnc> did someone compare dash vs ash perf ?
2020-11-02T03:18:03 #kisslinux <dilyn> i don't think so but I can't imagine ash nearly as fast as dash?
2020-11-02T03:18:10 #kisslinux <dilyn> id put it between dash and bash
2020-11-02T03:18:22 #kisslinux <sh4rm4^bnc> afaik bb ash is derived from dash
2020-11-02T03:19:27 #kisslinux <sh4rm4^bnc> whenever there's a security fix to dash, the same patch shows up in bb repo too
2020-11-02T03:19:40 #kisslinux <dilyn> https://unix.stackexchange.com/questions/148035/is-dash-or-some-other-shell-faster-than-bash
2020-11-02T03:19:50 #kisslinux <dilyn> it's ever so slightly slower according to one benchmark
2020-11-02T03:20:20 #kisslinux <dilyn> ash is twice as fast as bash and 1.5 times slower than dash, based on *that* benchmark
2020-11-02T03:24:03 #kisslinux <sh4rm4^bnc> interesting
2020-11-02T03:25:36 #kisslinux <kiedtl> > It has now been a year since I started working on KISS. The idea for the package format/system came to me in a dream the night before and I started work the next morning.
2020-11-02T03:25:46 #kisslinux <kiedtl> Is that true? or was Dylan joking?
2020-11-02T03:25:57 #kisslinux <sh4rm4^bnc> sounds like a joke
2020-11-02T03:26:36 #kisslinux <kiedtl> I hope so
2020-11-02T03:26:53 #kisslinux <kiedtl> if not...
2020-11-02T03:27:17 #kisslinux <sh4rm4^bnc> "the idea to make kiss occured to me after 2 bottles of vodka"
2020-11-02T03:37:18 #kisslinux <sh4rm4^bnc> holy sh... that benchmark takes 7x more time with busybox sh than dash on my pc
2020-11-02T03:38:21 #kisslinux <sh4rm4^bnc> time to symlink dash then
2020-11-02T03:51:44 #kisslinux <dilyn> lmfao
2020-11-02T03:51:59 #kisslinux <dilyn> you know i wouldn't bet on dylan lying about the ideas that come to him...
2020-11-02T03:52:08 #kisslinux <dilyn> I wouldn't put it past him to be dramatic tho...
2020-11-02T03:57:59 #kisslinux <kiedtl> I mean, I've had project ideas/magnificent revelations come to me just as I wake up.
2020-11-02T03:58:13 #kisslinux <kiedtl> Not in a dream though... lol
2020-11-02T03:58:29 #kisslinux <dilyn> I once invented triangles in the space between wakingness and dreams
2020-11-02T03:59:04 #kisslinux <kiedtl> "invented triangles"?
2020-11-02T03:59:35 #kisslinux <sh4rm4^bnc> oh yeah, those nice opium pipes...
2020-11-02T04:07:36 #kisslinux <dilyn> i was thinking about a super challenging abstract algebra problem
2020-11-02T04:07:55 #kisslinux <dilyn> and halfway between waking space and dream space i started moving my hands to visualize the problem
2020-11-02T04:08:04 #kisslinux <dilyn> and then i had an *aha* moment!
2020-11-02T04:08:18 #kisslinux <dilyn> and then i realized that I was just describing triangles
2020-11-02T04:12:07 #kisslinux <E5ten> You still can't use ls output because it might not output correct file names (e.g. if there's an unprintable character)
2020-11-02T04:17:28 #kisslinux <sh4rm4^bnc> and anything you gotta escape, basically
2020-11-02T04:21:07 #kisslinux <dilyn> but he would *know* if that was the case
2020-11-02T04:21:21 #kisslinux <dilyn> ostensibly, becuase it's a script *he* wrote to manipulate files *he* named
2020-11-02T04:45:48 #kisslinux <E5ten> Sure but why not just use globs
2020-11-02T05:17:56 #kisslinux <dilyn> i mean, yes
2020-11-02T05:18:09 #kisslinux <dilyn> but if the outputs are known there's no real difference
2020-11-02T05:26:41 #kisslinux <muevoid> o/
2020-11-02T12:12:18 #kisslinux <claudia02> aloha
2020-11-02T15:57:52 #kisslinux <nerditup> o/
2020-11-02T17:09:04 #kisslinux <kiedtl> o
2020-11-02T17:40:02 #kisslinux <midfavila> o/
2020-11-02T18:19:58 #kisslinux <systemE> o/
2020-11-02T18:43:03 #kisslinux <kiedtl> oh nice, k1ss.org is down again
2020-11-02T18:43:13 #kisslinux <kiedtl> or rather, github is down.
2020-11-02T18:50:27 #kisslinux <obsessive[m]1> works for me kiedtl
2020-11-02T18:51:33 #kisslinux <kiedtl> Yeah, it works for me now. Guess the unicorns surrendered
2020-11-02T21:04:14 #kisslinux <himmalerin> kiedtl: What gemini client do you use? I was planning on using gmni but it doesn't compile due to what are probably libre/openSSL differences
2020-11-02T21:44:33 #kisslinux <kiedtl> I use amfora, which is written in Go and is notable for it's good interface and nice set of features; there are, however, several other good options. AV-98 is (I think written in Python), and is a line-based gemini browser. Bollux is written in bash, but it requires the OpenSSL client (I suppose it could be made to work with libressl's equivalent tool, but I've never done that)
2020-11-02T21:44:59 #kisslinux <kiedtl> Oh, and I forgot to mention bombadillo. there are quite a few gemini clients!
2020-11-02T21:45:01 #kisslinux <kiedtl> himmalerin:
2020-11-02T22:20:01 #kisslinux <midfavila> you can use Castor too
2020-11-02T22:20:24 #kisslinux <midfavila> GTK+3, pretty sure it's written in Rust, fairly minimal interface
2020-11-02T22:20:28 #kisslinux <midfavila> nice and simple
2020-11-02T22:20:46 #kisslinux <kiedtl> ^^ that too, but Castor is graphical and requires GTK
2020-11-02T22:20:59 #kisslinux <kiedtl> oh lag
2020-11-02T22:22:36 #kisslinux <midfavila> honnestly my problem is that it uses 3 specifically
2020-11-02T22:22:39 #kisslinux <midfavila> honestly*
2020-11-02T22:22:46 #kisslinux <midfavila> I'm one of those losers who still clings to 2
2020-11-02T22:22:53 #kisslinux <midfavila> ...and Xaw, but we don't talk about that
2020-11-02T22:23:41 #kisslinux <kiedtl> why, though?
2020-11-02T22:25:35 #kisslinux <midfavila> because I dislike the weird licensing system Qt has, not to mention that I always have performance issues (and it themes like shit). GTK3 on the other hand also has shit theming, and just... bluh.
2020-11-02T22:25:56 #kisslinux <midfavila> as for Xaw it's because I'm one of like two people who unironically use XDM, and FVWM still relies on it (or Xt... but who's keeping track)
2020-11-02T22:27:26 #kisslinux <midfavila> ...oh, and Qt takes nine billion years to compile
2020-11-02T22:59:11 #kisslinux <sh4rm4^bnc> midfavila +1
2020-11-02T22:59:29 #kisslinux <sh4rm4^bnc> qt==bloated C++ crap
2020-11-02T23:00:17 #kisslinux <sh4rm4^bnc> i was actually thinking about creating some kind of compatibility layer which would allow to compile gtk+3 apps with gtk+2
2020-11-02T23:00:31 #kisslinux <sh4rm4^bnc> using some macro magic
2020-11-02T23:15:11 #kisslinux <himmalerin> kiedtl: Thanks for the suggestions, I'll take a look