💾 Archived View for gemini.ctrl-c.club › ~phoebos › logs › freenode-kisslinux-2020-09-15.txt captured on 2024-03-21 at 16:05:46.
⬅️ Previous capture (2021-12-17)
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2020-09-15T01:53:52 #kisslinux <mcpcpc[m]> @freenode_illiliti:matrix.org: made a branch to test IPv6 in `kirc`: https://github.com/mcpcpc/kirc/tree/ipv6 i’m getting a weird error... but “should” work. also, it “should” prioritize IPv6 now first before IPv4. 2020-09-15T01:55:06 #kisslinux <mcpcpc[m]> @freenode_illiliti:matrix.org: example command argument to force IPv6: `kirc -n <nickname> -6` 2020-09-15T02:54:51 #kisslinux <E5ten> mcpcpc: imo the ipv6 variable should be like an int or maybe even a char, it only needs to be able to hold 0 and 1 2020-09-15T03:02:49 #kisslinux <mcpcpc[m]> E5ten: fixed. same goes for verb variable :) 2020-09-15T03:33:01 #kisslinux <muevoid> hi 2020-09-15T03:39:23 #kisslinux <muevoid> dilyn I decided time to try a no libX11 install. 2020-09-15T04:07:24 #kisslinux <dilynm> claudia02: we had a conversation about Falkon and x11extras; do you know if viper requires it? It doesn't seem like it does but I don't recall 2020-09-15T04:10:31 #kisslinux <E5ten> mcpcpc: but yeah I think you should add the termios stuff back I'm pretty sure it's the only way to not have that issue 2020-09-15T04:19:56 #kisslinux <dilynm> Oh! Muevoid: how is it working? 2020-09-15T04:20:09 #kisslinux <dilynm> I'm curious if foot crashes for you without libX11 2020-09-15T04:56:20 #kisslinux <muevoid> I haven't tried it yet. 2020-09-15T04:56:24 #kisslinux <muevoid> got caught up with stuff 2020-09-15T04:56:32 #kisslinux <muevoid> backing up my configs now and going to do a reinstall 2020-09-15T04:56:52 #kisslinux <muevoid> If foot crashes I will try to patch it 2020-09-15T04:57:26 #kisslinux <muevoid> I'm also going to attempt webkit2gtk without libX11 2020-09-15T04:57:39 #kisslinux <muevoid> as I would prefer to avoid qt still 2020-09-15T04:57:47 #kisslinux <muevoid> however not sure if this is viable but we will see 2020-09-15T04:58:24 #kisslinux <muevoid> I don't do much in browser though so hopefully lack of opengl will be ok. 2020-09-15T07:18:20 #kisslinux <muevoid> Anyone on here have an alternative terminal for wayland other then foot 2020-09-15T07:18:31 #kisslinux <muevoid> I had the same issue as dilyn does not work without libX11 2020-09-15T07:19:09 #kisslinux <muevoid> I want to try and fix it however I would prefer to patch it while having sway up so I need a temporary one 2020-09-15T07:53:41 #kisslinux <admicos> muevoid: I use the alacritty from the archived mywayland repo but updated to the latest version 2020-09-15T07:54:00 #kisslinux <admicos> but it's rust, so it might not work out for you :p 2020-09-15T07:54:29 #kisslinux <soliwilos> muevoid: I use this one on wayland: https://github.com/andir/ate (full disclosure, not a KISS user, at least not yet). 2020-09-15T07:58:33 #kisslinux <muevoid_> Thank you both 2020-09-15T07:58:44 #kisslinux <muevoid_> Alacritty is not an option for me but ate looks ok 2020-09-15T07:58:47 #kisslinux <muevoid_> thank you 2020-09-15T07:58:56 #kisslinux <muevoid_> I do know why foot isn't working but not sure how to fix it 2020-09-15T08:58:05 #kisslinux <admicos> why does gimp require a million deps aw man 2020-09-15T09:00:06 #kisslinux <admicos> i don't have a printer anywhere why does it need cups maaan 2020-09-15T09:02:36 #kisslinux <konimex> well people print their designs so might be why it need cups, but yeah should've been an option 2020-09-15T10:15:37 #kisslinux <muevoid_> Does anyone know how makefiles work somewhat decently? 2020-09-15T10:42:44 #kisslinux <admicos> any shell wizards here know if this script can be any simpler?: https://ebc.li/dpty 2020-09-15T10:43:05 #kisslinux <admicos> Trying to make an orphan package detector that also takes build deps into account unlike kiss-orphans 2020-09-15T10:47:51 #kisslinux <mcf> you can replace `cat ... | sed -e expr` with `sed -e expr ...` 2020-09-15T10:48:43 #kisslinux <mcf> `echo * | sed "s/ /n/g"` also known as `ls` 2020-09-15T10:49:03 #kisslinux <admicos> mcf: i didn't want to parse ls though 2020-09-15T10:49:09 #kisslinux <admicos> echo * is a little bit more predictable 2020-09-15T10:50:19 #kisslinux <mcf> how so? when stdout is not a terminal, ls output is predictable: one entry per line 2020-09-15T10:50:40 #kisslinux <admicos> is it? 2020-09-15T10:50:43 #kisslinux <admicos> well, tl 2020-09-15T10:50:44 #kisslinux <admicos> til* 2020-09-15T10:53:05 #kisslinux <mcf> it might be nice to clean up $temp on failure (trap 'rm -rf "$temp"' EXIT) 2020-09-15T10:53:29 #kisslinux <admicos> i assume the EXIT signal happens on clean exits too, right? 2020-09-15T10:53:38 #kisslinux <mcf> yeah, pretty sure 2020-09-15T10:57:42 #kisslinux <admicos> also wow: kiss-orphans: 228 miliseconds, my script: 6 miliseconds 2020-09-15T11:04:14 #kisslinux <merakor> admicos: I didn't write core handling, but here is how I would do on the top of my head. 2020-09-15T11:04:15 #kisslinux <merakor> https://termbin.com/kkf3 2020-09-15T11:06:26 #kisslinux <claudia0> dilynm: I only remember for falkon. (no qt5-x11extras and even x11 backend enabled). 2020-09-15T11:13:29 #kisslinux <mcpcpc[m]> @freenode_himmalerin:matrix.org: fyi... latest kirc 0.0.9 release now patches the default. 2020-09-15T11:14:01 #kisslinux <muevoids[m]> How is kirc commpares to irssi? Ive been looking at trying it. 2020-09-15T11:21:15 #kisslinux <mcpcpc[m]> muevoids: no real comparison. `kirc` is *much* simpler (< sloc). but depending on how you use irc, it might be a good option for you. 2020-09-15T11:21:35 #kisslinux <merakor> admicos: https://termbin.com/qspwc 2020-09-15T11:21:57 #kisslinux <mcpcpc[m]> @muevoids:matrix.org: *(< 300 sloc) 2020-09-15T11:35:44 #kisslinux <admicos> merakor: woah i need to learn more about shell scripting i have no idea how the "set" parts work :p 2020-09-15T11:36:23 #kisslinux <mcpcpc[m]> E5ten: alright. hm.. 2020-09-15T11:43:28 #kisslinux <mcpcpc[m]> @muevoids:matrix.org: i think your best comparison would be to `sic`, but with less multichannel support. 2020-09-15T11:52:00 #kisslinux <claudia0> dilynm: qt5-webengine just finished building ;) 2020-09-15T12:15:20 #kisslinux <dilynm> That took you a while claudia! 2020-09-15T16:01:34 #kisslinux <E5ten> admicos mcf: both the echo and ls bits are unsafe, ls doesn't always represent file names accurately, and the echo thing will split files with spaces into newlines as well, you should do printf '%sn' * 2020-09-15T17:00:24 #kisslinux <mcf> E5ten: in what situation would they be inaccurate? 2020-09-15T17:20:27 #kisslinux <admicos> anyone here using mako, i finally found a better way to get rid of sd-dbus: https://git.ebc.li/kiss/custom/src/branch/main/custom/mako 2020-09-15T17:20:46 #kisslinux <admicos> should work on anything else using sd-dbus (only) 2020-09-15T17:21:10 #kisslinux <admicos> s/get rid of/use without systemd or elogind/ 2020-09-15T17:21:37 #kisslinux <E5ten> mcf: unprintable characters in filenames 2020-09-15T17:25:34 #kisslinux <mcf> the only thing in POSIX i see about that is the -q option, which says that implementations may do that by default if the output is a tty 2020-09-15T17:25:47 #kisslinux <mcf> doesn't that imply that it is not default if the output is not a tty? 2020-09-15T17:26:40 #kisslinux <E5ten> mcf: e.g. if I make a filename that's like ötest and I do LC_ALL=C ls, with busybox or toybox ls (sbase works though) the filename is not printed accurately 2020-09-15T17:26:56 #kisslinux <E5ten> busybox does ??test, toybox does 366test 2020-09-15T17:27:56 #kisslinux <mcf> even when redirecting to a non-tty? 2020-09-15T17:29:18 #kisslinux <E5ten> piped LC_ALL=C ls into a read loop that ran wc -c on the files as a test, I got "test: No such file or directory" 2020-09-15T17:29:47 #kisslinux <mcf> interesting. good to know! 2020-09-15T17:29:50 #kisslinux <E5ten> that was with toybox, same thing with busybox 2020-09-15T17:53:19 #kisslinux <periish> set -- sets any string that follows as an argument to the script, admicos 2020-09-15T17:53:39 #kisslinux <admicos> periish: argument, as in "$@" ? 2020-09-15T17:53:53 #kisslinux <periish> if $1 = foo, i can set -- bar to have $1 = bar 2020-09-15T17:54:02 #kisslinux <merakor2> admicos: yeah 2020-09-15T17:54:07 #kisslinux <admicos> so that essentially makes $@ into a global array 2020-09-15T17:54:08 #kisslinux <admicos> interesting 2020-09-15T17:54:13 #kisslinux <periish> not global 2020-09-15T17:54:17 #kisslinux <periish> It's per function 2020-09-15T17:54:19 #kisslinux <admicos> ah 2020-09-15T17:54:22 #kisslinux <admicos> that's a lot more better 2020-09-15T17:54:27 #kisslinux <admicos> when you said argument, i thought it was global 2020-09-15T17:54:29 #kisslinux <periish> As functions have their own set of positional paramaters 2020-09-15T17:54:32 #kisslinux <admicos> oh yeah 2020-09-15T17:54:33 #kisslinux <admicos> dug 2020-09-15T17:54:35 #kisslinux <admicos> duh* 2020-09-15T17:54:44 #kisslinux <periish> `set bar` also works 2020-09-15T17:54:54 #kisslinux <admicos> i assume the -- is for arguments starting with - 2020-09-15T17:54:59 #kisslinux <periish> But normally you're using `set` with variables 2020-09-15T17:55:00 #kisslinux <periish> Yea 2020-09-15T17:55:06 #kisslinux <admicos> gotcha 2020-09-15T17:55:07 #kisslinux <admicos> interesting 2020-09-15T17:55:26 #kisslinux <periish> if you need any shell scripting help, I'm sure any of us would be willing to 2020-09-15T17:55:36 #kisslinux <admicos> i know :) 2020-09-15T17:55:45 #kisslinux <periish> Myself included, of course 2020-09-15T17:56:14 #kisslinux <merakor2> The POSIX manual page on sh and the dash manual are also great resources, they taught me a lot. 2020-09-15T17:57:22 #kisslinux <merakor2> Same, I would love to help whenever. 2020-09-15T18:12:54 #kisslinux <periish> Are there any shells other than ash which include their own editline/readline impl? 2020-09-15T18:13:01 #kisslinux <periish> Busybox ash, that is 2020-09-15T18:13:54 #kisslinux <admicos> iirc zsh uses something called zle 2020-09-15T18:13:57 #kisslinux <admicos> let me double check 2020-09-15T18:14:48 #kisslinux <admicos> https://wiki.archlinux.org/index.php/Zsh#Key_bindings "Zsh does not use readline, instead it uses its own and more powerful Zsh Line Editor (ZLE)." 2020-09-15T18:15:21 #kisslinux <periish> Ahaha 2020-09-15T18:15:33 #kisslinux <periish> I don't think I'll be using zsh as a /bin/sh 2020-09-15T18:15:45 #kisslinux <admicos> well, it's a shell 2020-09-15T18:15:57 #kisslinux <admicos> i use it as my login but /bin/sh is dash because fast 2020-09-15T18:19:53 #kisslinux <micr0> yeah zle is dope 2020-09-15T18:23:31 #kisslinux <periish> I don't think I'll ever package zsh for this fork of KISS tbh 2020-09-15T18:27:50 #kisslinux <periish> Hmm 2020-09-15T18:28:05 #kisslinux <periish> Where the hell does libedit store it's libraries? 2020-09-15T18:28:18 #kisslinux <periish> I can't decipher these awful makefiles that autotools generates 2020-09-15T18:30:34 #kisslinux <periish> Does it not generate the libraries until install????? 2020-09-15T18:30:52 #kisslinux <merakor2> periish: It usually stores it in a goddamn .libs directory 2020-09-15T18:30:59 #kisslinux <admicos> what do you expect it's autotools of course it's weird 2020-09-15T18:31:32 #kisslinux <periish> > stores it in a goddamn .libs directory 2020-09-15T18:31:35 #kisslinux <periish> aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa 2020-09-15T18:31:52 #kisslinux <periish> There are no dotfiles!! 2020-09-15T18:32:15 #kisslinux <periish> But there is in src 2020-09-15T18:32:20 #kisslinux <periish> Awful 2020-09-15T18:32:23 #kisslinux <merakor2> try find . -name '*.a' 2020-09-15T18:32:55 #kisslinux <merakor2> Did you find it :D 2020-09-15T18:33:57 #kisslinux <merakor2> Oh yeah, it is in src/.libs directory 2020-09-15T18:34:04 #kisslinux <merakor2> GNU/Cringe 2020-09-15T18:35:44 #kisslinux <merakor2> (This joke was written in Emacs ERC, so I am a hypocrite) 2020-09-15T18:35:44 #kisslinux <merakor2> 2020-09-15T18:41:55 #kisslinux <periish> ERC? 2020-09-15T18:42:38 #kisslinux <merakor2> One of Emacs' builtin IRC packages 2020-09-15T18:42:55 #kisslinux <eris> Hm, weird errors from dash when I try to build it 2020-09-15T18:43:01 #kisslinux <eris> It complains about undefined symbols 2020-09-15T18:43:06 #kisslinux <eris> Does libedit need ncurses? 2020-09-15T18:43:46 #kisslinux <eris> Actually, I may just need to provide extra commandline options 2020-09-15T18:44:24 #kisslinux <merakor2> Yeah, libedit needs ncurses 2020-09-15T18:44:37 #kisslinux <eris> Ouch 2020-09-15T18:44:43 #kisslinux <eris> I was hoping to avoid vendoring that 2020-09-15T18:46:22 #kisslinux <merakor2> Why? 2020-09-15T18:49:42 #kisslinux <merakor2> You can build libedit statically and use ncurses as a 'make dependency' 2020-09-15T18:49:53 #kisslinux <sh4rm4^bnc> not necessarily. it can also be built with libtermcap 2020-09-15T18:50:27 #kisslinux <merakor2> Oh, I didn't know that 2020-09-15T18:50:36 #kisslinux <sh4rm4^bnc> http://ftp.gnu.org/gnu/termcap/termcap-1.3.1.tar.gz 2020-09-15T18:51:59 #kisslinux <claudia02> dilynm: The qt5-update does not resolv my video crash issue :2020-09-15T18:52:33 #kisslinux <sh4rm4^bnc> there is no dilynm in this channel 2020-09-15T18:52:51 #kisslinux <merakor2> There usually is 2020-09-15T18:53:53 #kisslinux <claudia02> thankfully we have https://freenode.logbot.info/kisslinux/ :D 2020-09-15T18:53:54 #kisslinux <merakor2> Logs are also available, so you can see them even when you are offline. 2020-09-15T18:54:43 #kisslinux <sh4rm4^bnc> oh? freenode has a policy that if a channel is logged it needs to be in topic or in a on-join notice 2020-09-15T18:54:55 #kisslinux <sh4rm4^bnc> publicly logged, that is 2020-09-15T18:54:57 #kisslinux <merakor2> claudio02: qt5 seems like a pain in the ass as far as I have seen from the chat :D 2020-09-15T18:55:06 #kisslinux <merakor2> It is on the topic 2020-09-15T18:55:18 #kisslinux <sh4rm4^bnc> o.0 2020-09-15T18:55:24 #kisslinux <merakor2> s/claudio/claudia/ 2020-09-15T19:02:50 #kisslinux <claudia02> merakor2: yeah. In perspecitve what you have to do and what you get its not really worth it.. 2020-09-15T19:05:32 #kisslinux <sh4rm4^bnc> if you add KDE into the mix, you have a desktop environment that makes use of all your RAM, so you at least know what you bought it for 2020-09-15T19:07:37 #kisslinux <admicos> honestly if all the text was left-to-right monospace, then most of the complexity of gui frameworks would probably be solved. the other would be accessibility afaik 2020-09-15T19:08:48 #kisslinux <admicos> games for example build their own guis all the time but because they don't care about a11y or multiple languages they can afford to do su 2020-09-15T19:08:52 #kisslinux <admicos> do so/ 2020-09-15T19:10:58 #kisslinux <dilyn> claudia: I am deeply sorry to hear that :( 2020-09-15T19:11:27 #kisslinux <dilyn> I have terrible cell service so I just keep tabs on the logs so I don't spam the channel with leave/join messages xD 2020-09-15T19:11:58 #kisslinux <dilyn> sh4rm4^bnc: KDE idles at just under 1GB ram usage for me, although it does tend to get exponentially worse 2020-09-15T19:13:00 #kisslinux * sh4rm4^bnc used to use kdevelop until he tried to compile it from source to fix a bug 2020-09-15T19:27:52 #kisslinux <sh4rm4^bnc> dilyn, are you the BDFL ? 2020-09-15T19:28:09 #kisslinux <dilyn> that would be dylanaraps: 2020-09-15T19:28:14 #kisslinux <muevoids[m]> dylan is 2020-09-15T19:28:14 #kisslinux <muevoids[m]> dilyn is a different dylan 2020-09-15T19:28:24 #kisslinux <sh4rm4^bnc> i see 2020-09-15T19:28:25 #kisslinux <muevoids[m]> yeah my msgs didnt send fast enough :P 2020-09-15T19:28:55 #kisslinux <dilyn> i'm unique and special 2020-09-15T19:30:43 #kisslinux <merakor2> I see this question at least once a week now :D 2020-09-15T19:30:43 #kisslinux <merakor2> 2020-09-15T19:33:06 #kisslinux <merakor2> sh4rm4^bnc: Dylan is usually more active on day hours EEST 2020-09-15T19:34:09 #kisslinux <sh4rm4^bnc> ouch, so dilyn is the manager to the kiss-kde repo 2020-09-15T19:34:22 #kisslinux <sh4rm4^bnc> means my kde comment was inappropriate :> 2020-09-15T19:37:08 #kisslinux <sh4rm4^bnc> i wondered why kiss core uses firefox as opposed to palemoon 2020-09-15T19:37:22 #kisslinux <sh4rm4^bnc> since the latter doesnt need rust 2020-09-15T19:37:54 #kisslinux <sh4rm4^bnc> nor gtk+3 2020-09-15T19:38:01 #kisslinux <sh4rm4^bnc> and still supports alsa 2020-09-15T19:38:05 #kisslinux <muevoids[m]> gtk+2 is frounded upon 2020-09-15T19:38:12 #kisslinux <sh4rm4^bnc> i love it 2020-09-15T19:38:26 #kisslinux <muevoids[m]> we want to get rid of it afaik 2020-09-15T19:38:27 #kisslinux <sh4rm4^bnc> i use only gtk+2 desktop apps on my sabotage desktop 2020-09-15T19:38:44 #kisslinux <muevoids[m]> I cant use gtk+2 :P 2020-09-15T19:39:20 #kisslinux <sh4rm4^bnc> iirc gtk+3 uses like 2x the amount of ram 2020-09-15T19:40:10 #kisslinux <muevoids[m]> if I were on x I like gtk+2 but since im on wayland i need to use gtk+3 2020-09-15T19:40:17 #kisslinux <sh4rm4^bnc> ah 2020-09-15T19:40:37 #kisslinux <merakor2> I mean, aren't all graphical toolkits garbage? 2020-09-15T19:40:48 #kisslinux <muevoids[m]> Yeah basically :P 2020-09-15T19:40:52 #kisslinux <sh4rm4^bnc> most are indeed 2020-09-15T19:40:57 #kisslinux <muevoids[m]> fklt 2020-09-15T19:41:03 #kisslinux <muevoids[m]> i liked that on x 2020-09-15T19:41:12 #kisslinux <muevoids[m]> mlib is also good for x 2020-09-15T19:41:26 #kisslinux <sh4rm4^bnc> i once had the crazy idea to rip the gdi32 part out of wine to make a relatively slim win32-style gui toolkit 2020-09-15T19:41:33 #kisslinux <merakor2> Good ones aren't used widely :^) 2020-09-15T19:41:52 #kisslinux <sh4rm4^bnc> it's still lighter in resources than gtk+2 and it would allow to easily port some windows gui apps 2020-09-15T19:42:05 #kisslinux <muevoids[m]> i onlt need gtk+3 for my browser 2020-09-15T19:42:16 #kisslinux <merakor2> muevoids: webkit best kit 2020-09-15T19:42:25 #kisslinux <muevoids[m]> Yep 2020-09-15T19:42:36 #kisslinux <muevoids[m]> I got it working fully without bugs except gitlab 2020-09-15T19:42:40 #kisslinux <muevoids[m]> cant figure out that website 2020-09-15T19:42:45 #kisslinux <muevoids[m]> but authentication and stuff work now 2020-09-15T19:43:04 #kisslinux <merakor2> Protonmail? 2020-09-15T19:43:13 #kisslinux <muevoids[m]> yes 2020-09-15T19:43:43 #kisslinux <merakor2> nice 2020-09-15T19:44:11 #kisslinux <merakor2> The latest update finally fixed some issues 2020-09-15T19:44:21 #kisslinux <merakor2> Dark themes are finally supported properly 2020-09-15T19:44:24 #kisslinux <muevoids[m]> i can post build if youd like 2020-09-15T19:45:09 #kisslinux <merakor2> Sure, does it add dependencies? 2020-09-15T19:45:17 #kisslinux <dilyn> sh4rm4^bnc: your kde commit was v valid and appropriate xD it's trash 2020-09-15T19:45:28 #kisslinux <sh4rm4^bnc> :) 2020-09-15T19:45:36 #kisslinux <dilyn> dylan also doesn't like palemoon a lot; https://freenode.logbot.info/kisslinux/20200225#c3301462 2020-09-15T19:45:39 #kisslinux <muevoids[m]> libtasn1 is only required new one i believe 2020-09-15T19:45:51 #kisslinux <muevoids[m]> libsecret may be but i havent tested withour 2020-09-15T19:45:51 #kisslinux <muevoids[m]> out* 2020-09-15T19:46:06 #kisslinux <sh4rm4^bnc> i actually know some kde developers from RL. they're decent people, but they don't seem to understand the suckless philosophy 2020-09-15T19:46:12 #kisslinux <muevoids[m]> i dont think libsecret would be nescessary 2020-09-15T19:46:32 #kisslinux <merakor2> It should be libsecret, because I had tried with libtasn1 i think. 2020-09-15T19:47:19 #kisslinux <merakor2> Yeah, it doesn't work with libtasn1 2020-09-15T19:47:21 #kisslinux <dilyn> they had perhaps a good idea breaking the kde framework up into parts, probably makes the codebase easier to manage 2020-09-15T19:47:22 #kisslinux <muevoids[m]> its causs of a bug upstream 2020-09-15T19:47:32 #kisslinux <muevoids[m]> It needs to be built with -DNDEBUG for all cflags and cxx flags or instead of release be minsizerel 2020-09-15T19:47:32 #kisslinux <dilyn> but it's still 70+ libraries so like... eeehhhhh 2020-09-15T19:48:20 #kisslinux <muevoids[m]> i will post my build file in like 10 to 15 mins I am eating atm but i will be back at pc soon 2020-09-15T19:48:25 #kisslinux <sh4rm4^bnc> and C++ :( 2020-09-15T19:49:04 #kisslinux <eris> Palemoon isn't a good replacement for Firefox 2020-09-15T19:49:13 #kisslinux <eris> it doesn't have as good a browser engine 2020-09-15T19:49:13 #kisslinux <sh4rm4^bnc> eris, why? 2020-09-15T19:49:20 #kisslinux <eris> Also, gtk+2 is depreciated 2020-09-15T19:49:27 #kisslinux <eris> And has been removed from the repositories 2020-09-15T19:49:28 #kisslinux <sh4rm4^bnc> latest palemoon uses the engine of firefox 68.9 2020-09-15T19:49:52 #kisslinux <sh4rm4^bnc> finally works for all sites, except imgur.com albums 2020-09-15T19:50:01 #kisslinux <muevoids[m]> palemoon deve are also agressive 2020-09-15T19:50:03 #kisslinux <eris> we are on firefox 80 2020-09-15T19:50:06 #kisslinux <muevoids[m]> devs* 2020-09-15T19:50:11 #kisslinux <sh4rm4^bnc> yeah i know 2020-09-15T19:50:17 #kisslinux <eris> Palemoon fails to work with many of the websites I use 2020-09-15T19:50:19 #kisslinux <muevoids[m]> I don't like palemoon personally 2020-09-15T19:50:26 #kisslinux <sh4rm4^bnc> eris, latest version? 2020-09-15T19:50:33 #kisslinux <eris> Yes 2020-09-15T19:50:49 #kisslinux <muevoids[m]> I don't like firefox either so take that with a grain of salt 2020-09-15T19:51:13 #kisslinux <eris> Neither, but there's nothing better :/ 2020-09-15T19:51:37 #kisslinux <eris> Many of the alternate browser engines are simply not an option 2020-09-15T19:51:37 #kisslinux <muevoids[m]> Webkit works for me personally but def has issues 2020-09-15T19:51:42 #kisslinux <eris> Chromium is *hell* 2020-09-15T19:51:44 #kisslinux <sh4rm4^bnc> anyway i dont have another choice since one of the design philosophies of sabotage is "no binaries" and you can't get rust running without 2020-09-15T19:52:04 #kisslinux <eris> how does it bootstrap itself then 2020-09-15T19:52:10 #kisslinux <eris> Also that's a plain lie 2020-09-15T19:52:23 #kisslinux <eris> You can bootstrap upwards to rust from a C++ toolchain 2020-09-15T19:52:25 #kisslinux <sh4rm4^bnc> or at least without a fucking 30-step process using mrustc as a base 2020-09-15T19:52:35 #kisslinux <eris> Or you can just use the bootstrap 2020-09-15T19:53:08 #kisslinux <merakor2> I believe that anything mozilla produces is crap 2020-09-15T19:53:19 #kisslinux <muevoids[m]> I cant stand rust. 2020-09-15T19:53:34 #kisslinux <sh4rm4^bnc> eris, i've wrote down all the details in my blog https://sabotage-linux.github.io/blog/3/ 2020-09-15T19:53:36 #kisslinux <muevoids[m]> I know of the upsides and pros 2020-09-15T19:53:41 #kisslinux <muevoids[m]> but i really dislike it 2020-09-15T19:53:54 #kisslinux <merakor2> compiling rust is longer than compiling webkit 2020-09-15T19:54:02 #kisslinux <muevoids[m]> exactly 2020-09-15T19:54:12 #kisslinux <eris> I can't stand rust either 2020-09-15T19:54:16 #kisslinux <muevoids[m]> ill take my segfaults and buffer overflows over rust 2020-09-15T19:54:17 #kisslinux <eris> The culture around it 2020-09-15T19:54:19 #kisslinux <eris> Bleh 2020-09-15T19:54:33 #kisslinux <eris> I know people who thought Git should be written in Rust 2020-09-15T19:54:46 #kisslinux <eris> despite the fact that rust doesn't support the platforms that linux does.... 2020-09-15T19:54:55 #kisslinux <merakor2> Lol yeah, some people WORSHIP rust 2020-09-15T19:54:58 #kisslinux <muevoids[m]> exactly 2020-09-15T19:55:09 #kisslinux <muevoids[m]> I wish greetd was written in c :< 2020-09-15T19:55:12 #kisslinux <sh4rm4^bnc> like they worship systemd 2020-09-15T19:55:13 #kisslinux <eris> this isn't even a rust worshipper they just have horrible takes 2020-09-15T19:55:25 #kisslinux <merakor2> Yeah, those three things: 2020-09-15T19:55:26 #kisslinux <merakor2> Arch 2020-09-15T19:55:28 #kisslinux <merakor2> Systemd 2020-09-15T19:55:29 #kisslinux <merakor2> Rust 2020-09-15T19:55:44 #kisslinux <eris> Y'all know about SystemR or whatever it was called? 2020-09-15T19:55:51 #kisslinux <muevoids[m]> yes 2020-09-15T19:55:53 #kisslinux <eris> RiR taken to the logical conclusion 2020-09-15T19:55:58 #kisslinux <eris> I hope 2020-09-15T19:56:07 #kisslinux <admicos> gitoxide 2020-09-15T19:56:22 #kisslinux <admicos> https://github.com/Byron/gitoxide 2020-09-15T19:56:30 #kisslinux <eris> aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa 2020-09-15T19:56:35 #kisslinux <muevoids[m]> my favorite "modern" language is golang. 2020-09-15T19:56:38 #kisslinux <merakor2> Go is fine if it didn't produce humongous binaries 2020-09-15T19:56:42 #kisslinux <admicos> ^ 2020-09-15T19:56:44 #kisslinux <muevoids[m]> C is still my overally favorite though. 2020-09-15T19:57:00 #kisslinux <muevoids[m]> overall* 2020-09-15T19:57:00 #kisslinux <eris> I really dislike Go personally 2020-09-15T19:57:32 #kisslinux <eris> Plus there's effectively no standards for the build systems :< 2020-09-15T19:57:39 #kisslinux <eris> Every Go project rolls their own 2020-09-15T19:58:14 #kisslinux <sh4rm4^bnc> #include <github.com/lamer/bullshit> 2020-09-15T19:58:19 #kisslinux <muevoids[m]> merakor2 https://termbin.com/z5rg you can ignore wayland thinks and readd in switches if youd like 2020-09-15T19:58:38 #kisslinux <muevoids[m]> I want an alternative to gomuks 2020-09-15T19:58:39 #kisslinux <eris> And Go is so Google it's laughable 2020-09-15T19:58:52 #kisslinux <sh4rm4^bnc> just like rust is so mozilla 2020-09-15T19:58:55 #kisslinux <muevoids[m]> i still wouldnt have go if it wasnt for that 2020-09-15T19:59:29 #kisslinux <muevoids[m]> I dont think of go as google rather as ken thompson 2020-09-15T19:59:45 #kisslinux <muevoids[m]> But still not a huge fan of go 2020-09-15T19:59:57 #kisslinux <muevoids[m]> I would rather have c things 2020-09-15T19:59:59 #kisslinux <eris> I associate it more with Google because a large amount of the language design choices leak through as 'make programmers replaceable' 2020-09-15T20:00:15 #kisslinux <muevoids[m]> In fact does anyone know of an alternative to gomuks? in c or cpp 2020-09-15T20:01:16 #kisslinux <merakor2> I mean Go was developed by the same people who have developed C and Plan9, so they have similar programming points. 2020-09-15T20:01:28 #kisslinux <merakor2> and philosophies 2020-09-15T20:01:33 #kisslinux <muevoids[m]> yeah 2020-09-15T20:01:36 #kisslinux <muevoids[m]> simplicity 2020-09-15T20:01:48 #kisslinux <muevoids[m]> even the suckless devs say go is a good choice modern language wise 2020-09-15T20:02:04 #kisslinux <muevoids[m]> and they obvi have strong ideals with software 2020-09-15T20:02:19 #kisslinux <merakor2> muevoids: Sadly there is no sdk published by matrix, and nobody has implemented the protocol to C yet. 2020-09-15T20:02:30 #kisslinux <admicos> what if we take _go_, and change the ecosystem around it so we don't have to import everything from github 2020-09-15T20:02:30 #kisslinux <muevoids[m]> That's unfortunate 2020-09-15T20:02:30 #kisslinux <eris> Suckless aren't really an example to follow imho 2020-09-15T20:02:49 #kisslinux <sh4rm4^bnc> the best non-C language i recently encountered is dinolang 2020-09-15T20:02:49 #kisslinux <muevoids[m]> Yeah i agree 2020-09-15T20:02:57 #kisslinux <sh4rm4^bnc> written by one of the GCC developes 2020-09-15T20:03:05 #kisslinux <sh4rm4^bnc> it's fast as hell 2020-09-15T20:03:05 #kisslinux <muevoids[m]> I just beought it up since they have strong ideals 2020-09-15T20:03:19 #kisslinux <eris> Aye, but said ideals are somewhat inconistent 2020-09-15T20:03:25 #kisslinux <muevoids[m]> Zig seems promising 2020-09-15T20:03:29 #kisslinux <admicos> sh4rm4^bnc: link? DDG'ing it just shows some random facebook pages 2020-09-15T20:03:43 #kisslinux <muevoids[m]> but i havent done too much research 2020-09-15T20:03:48 #kisslinux <eris> Surf demonstrates their lack of self awareness :p 2020-09-15T20:03:53 #kisslinux <sh4rm4^bnc> https://github.com/dino-lang 2020-09-15T20:03:53 #kisslinux <admicos> nvm.. ah i think i got it 2020-09-15T20:03:58 #kisslinux <muevoids[m]> surf is very slow 2020-09-15T20:04:13 #kisslinux <admicos> surf is just webkit, how is that supposed to be suckless 2020-09-15T20:04:14 #kisslinux <muevoids[m]> badwolf is my fav webkit2gtk based browser 2020-09-15T20:04:26 #kisslinux <muevoids[m]> they should use netsurf 2020-09-15T20:04:33 #kisslinux <muevoids[m]> as backend if they want a suckless one 2020-09-15T20:04:45 #kisslinux <merakor2> But you need to follow web standards, which is impossible to be suckless 2020-09-15T20:04:54 #kisslinux <muevoids[m]> yeah 2020-09-15T20:04:59 #kisslinux <admicos> netsurf needs more devs, but i don't think suckless people should be them 2020-09-15T20:05:03 #kisslinux <merakor2> Netsurf is a great example for why suckless webengines don't work 2020-09-15T20:05:09 #kisslinux <muevoids[m]> the web sucks 2020-09-15T20:05:15 #kisslinux <merakor2> Exactly 2020-09-15T20:05:21 #kisslinux <admicos> let's switch over to gemini 2020-09-15T20:05:32 #kisslinux <muevoids[m]> gopher 2020-09-15T20:05:46 #kisslinux <admicos> that'll work too 2020-09-15T20:05:59 #kisslinux <muevoids[m]> i wish 2020-09-15T20:05:59 #kisslinux <admicos> actually, why not both? 2020-09-15T20:06:06 #kisslinux <eris> https://github.com/dylanaraps/2211 <- Surf is effectively this 2020-09-15T20:06:28 #kisslinux <eris> I don't think Netsurf ever cared about being suckless tbqh 2020-09-15T20:06:30 #kisslinux <muevoids[m]> I haven't heard of gemini? 2020-09-15T20:06:33 #kisslinux <muevoids[m]> care to elaborate 2020-09-15T20:06:38 #kisslinux <eris> They're a browser for RISC OS first and foremost 2020-09-15T20:06:47 #kisslinux <eris> Which is so unfamiliar compared to any OS 2020-09-15T20:06:53 #kisslinux <admicos> muevoids: https://gemini.circumlunar.space 2020-09-15T20:06:59 #kisslinux <admicos> it's essentially gopher with a tiny bit of markdown 2020-09-15T20:07:28 #kisslinux <muevoids[m]> no c clients :( 2020-09-15T20:07:38 #kisslinux <muevoids[m]> seems nice though 2020-09-15T20:08:12 #kisslinux <admicos> iirc the gemini url for the same page has more clients listed 2020-09-15T20:08:12 #kisslinux <muevoids[m]> also speakinf of simple browsers w3m hasnt been compiling for me 2020-09-15T20:08:13 #kisslinux <merakor2> I mean, surf is pretty good for what it is. It is a hackable tiny webkit browser, and that's all I care for. 2020-09-15T20:08:18 #kisslinux <admicos> let me see if i can find some 2020-09-15T20:08:41 #kisslinux <eris> Actually, since this was mentioned earlier 2020-09-15T20:08:48 #kisslinux <merakor2> I don't want to lose 90% of web functionality just for a small browser. 2020-09-15T20:09:01 #kisslinux <eris> I'm curious; what are y'all's thoughts on Plan 9? 2020-09-15T20:09:37 #kisslinux <merakor2> It's good for its time 2020-09-15T20:10:15 #kisslinux <sh4rm4^bnc> it's developers seemed to be obsessed with luciferianism. BELL labs (baal), inferno, ... 2020-09-15T20:10:24 #kisslinux <sh4rm4^bnc> styx... 2020-09-15T20:10:27 #kisslinux <muevoid> has anyone else had problems with w3m compiling? 2020-09-15T20:11:05 #kisslinux <merakor2> plan9 specific tools are great such as mk and rc shell 2020-09-15T20:11:18 #kisslinux <merakor2> muevoid: no it builds fine for me 2020-09-15T20:11:23 #kisslinux <eris> Inferno, and styx are developed by a seperate company, Vitue Nova :p 2020-09-15T20:11:32 #kisslinux <muevoid> It fails saying it can't find glib-object.h but I have glib installed 2020-09-15T20:11:33 #kisslinux <sh4rm4^bnc> and bell labs became "lucent" 2020-09-15T20:11:38 #kisslinux <eris> As is Limbo, their C 2 2020-09-15T20:12:00 #kisslinux <eris> Bell Labs had little to do w/ Lucent or Vitue 2020-09-15T20:12:53 #kisslinux <eris> I think lucent were just oppourtunists 2020-09-15T20:13:20 #kisslinux <merakor2> Jesus, why does w3m ask for glib 2020-09-15T20:13:23 #kisslinux <muevoid> nvm fixed it merakor2 2020-09-15T20:13:24 #kisslinux <eris> Oh my 2020-09-15T20:13:35 #kisslinux <muevoid> Was related to X11 for w3mimg 2020-09-15T20:13:40 #kisslinux <muevoid> I just disabled that 2020-09-15T20:13:46 #kisslinux <eris> > plan9 specific tools are great such as mk and rc shell 2020-09-15T20:13:47 #kisslinux <merakor2> Oh, I see. 2020-09-15T20:13:55 #kisslinux <eris> What do you like about mk and rc? 2020-09-15T20:14:21 #kisslinux <merakor2> Their syntax and speed, mostly. 2020-09-15T20:15:03 #kisslinux <muevoid> How is k1ss's website made? 2020-09-15T20:15:16 #kisslinux <muevoid> I really like the style and would like my website to be similar 2020-09-15T20:15:48 #kisslinux <eris> Check out the repository! 2020-09-15T20:15:55 #kisslinux <eris> https://github.com/kisslinux/website 2020-09-15T20:15:58 #kisslinux <eris> Afaik 2020-09-15T20:16:11 #kisslinux <eris> They're made by sed calls to translate plaintext to html 2020-09-15T20:16:35 #kisslinux <eris> You can view the source of the wiki pages by appending .txt 2020-09-15T20:16:56 #kisslinux <eris> And you *should* have a copy of the website included with your installation of `kiss` 2020-09-15T20:17:02 #kisslinux <muevoid> Yes i do 2020-09-15T20:17:05 #kisslinux <eris> Which you can browse via `kiss help` 2020-09-15T20:17:15 #kisslinux <muevoid> Yes I use it all the time :O 2020-09-15T20:17:18 #kisslinux <muevoid> :P* 2020-09-15T20:17:22 #kisslinux <eris> :> 2020-09-15T20:17:29 #kisslinux <eris> It's a very neat functionality 2020-09-15T20:17:36 #kisslinux <eris> Shame I have to get rid of it :< 2020-09-15T20:17:45 #kisslinux <muevoid> Why do you have to? 2020-09-15T20:18:30 #kisslinux <eris> Don't want to have to rewrite all the webpages for my fork 2020-09-15T20:18:34 #kisslinux <muevoid> Ah 2020-09-15T20:18:40 #kisslinux <muevoid> What is your fork? 2020-09-15T20:19:18 #kisslinux <eris> I've got a little bit public rn afaik 2020-09-15T20:19:33 #kisslinux <eris> It's a fork of kiss that uses a custom filesystem hierarchy 2020-09-15T20:19:44 #kisslinux <muevoid> Hmmm what kind? 2020-09-15T20:19:50 #kisslinux <merakor2> Like gobo? 2020-09-15T20:19:59 #kisslinux <muevoid> That would be interesting 2020-09-15T20:20:10 #kisslinux <muevoid> If so does it have a patch for gobohide? 2020-09-15T20:20:28 #kisslinux <sh4rm4^bnc> sabotage does that too. packages live in /opt/$packagename and are symlinked to / 2020-09-15T20:20:57 #kisslinux <merakor2> Those hierarchies give me anxiety for some reason. 2020-09-15T20:21:03 #kisslinux <eris> I don't want /opt 2020-09-15T20:21:13 #kisslinux <eris> or symlinks to / 2020-09-15T20:21:27 #kisslinux <muevoid> Ooooo the kiss website builder is nice. 2020-09-15T20:21:30 #kisslinux <eris> It's a hack and it feels like one 2020-09-15T20:21:38 #kisslinux <sh4rm4^bnc> $ la /include/stdlib.h 2020-09-15T20:21:38 #kisslinux <sh4rm4^bnc> lrwxrwxrwx 1 root root 28 Jul 22 2019 /include/stdlib.h -> ../opt/musl/include/stdlib.h 2020-09-15T20:22:06 #kisslinux <sh4rm4^bnc> why is it a hack ? 2020-09-15T20:22:24 #kisslinux <eris> merakor: /conf instead of /etc, /bulk instead of /var, no sbin, bin, usr, lib 2020-09-15T20:22:30 #kisslinux <eris> > why is it a hack ? 2020-09-15T20:22:53 #kisslinux <eris> Symbolic links to / defeat features that you could harness 2020-09-15T20:23:17 #kisslinux <sh4rm4^bnc> ? 2020-09-15T20:23:27 #kisslinux <eris> Concurrent libcs 2020-09-15T20:23:32 #kisslinux <eris> Concurrent libc versions 2020-09-15T20:23:40 #kisslinux <eris> Concurrent packages in general 2020-09-15T20:23:58 #kisslinux <eris> if everything is configured to look for these symlinks, it's a bit pointless, aye? 2020-09-15T20:24:01 #kisslinux <sh4rm4^bnc> oh, you must have a 3 terabyte hdd 2020-09-15T20:24:15 #kisslinux <eris> I have a 256 GB ssd :^) 2020-09-15T20:24:48 #kisslinux <eris> > /dev/root 238.3G 12.2G 226.0G 5% / 2020-09-15T20:25:17 #kisslinux <eris> df -h output 2020-09-15T20:25:38 #kisslinux <eris> I just like things to be *proper*, if you will 2020-09-15T20:25:48 #kisslinux <sh4rm4^bnc> my disk is always 99.9% full, regardless its size 2020-09-15T20:25:57 #kisslinux <eris> I don't like halfarsing things 2020-09-15T20:26:06 #kisslinux <muevoid> I have 228 but only use 5gb 2020-09-15T20:26:24 #kisslinux <eris> And even having /usr/bin/env and /bin/sh feels like a job poorly done 2020-09-15T20:26:25 #kisslinux <sh4rm4^bnc> i take it you dont have a collection of youtube-dl'ed stuff 2020-09-15T20:26:32 #kisslinux <eris> Not yet 2020-09-15T20:26:43 #kisslinux <eris> Still need to decide on a format to recreate my collection in 2020-09-15T20:26:46 #kisslinux <muevoid> I have some music 2020-09-15T20:26:58 #kisslinux <muevoid> I as well need to do that 2020-09-15T20:26:58 #kisslinux <eris> OGG? WAV? Vorbis? 2020-09-15T20:27:13 #kisslinux <muevoid> mp3 lol 2020-09-15T20:27:27 #kisslinux <eris> I've done mp3 2020-09-15T20:27:47 #kisslinux <muevoid> Only reason I do is cause the only place to get drm free music afaik by popular artist is amazon 2020-09-15T20:28:03 #kisslinux <eris> I want to write my own music daemon, ysee, and I've not heard the best about mp3's libraries and such 2020-09-15T20:29:35 #kisslinux <eris> merakor2: I didn't get a chance to elaborate further on what my alternate hierarchy entails 2020-09-15T20:29:43 #kisslinux <muevoid> Sorry my bad :P 2020-09-15T20:30:02 #kisslinux <eris> Rather than a standard hierarchy in each package's directory, I opt for a custom one too 2020-09-15T20:30:19 #kisslinux <sh4rm4^bnc> eris, how will you workaround #!/bin/sh shebangs and the like? kernel patch? 2020-09-15T20:31:10 #kisslinux <eris> The hierarchy is /exec for executables, /doc for documentation, /inc for headers, /lib for libraries, and /man for manpages 2020-09-15T20:31:29 #kisslinux <muevoid> Why wouldn't man pages be in a subdir in /doc 2020-09-15T20:31:55 #kisslinux <eris> because /doc is a dumping ground for all formats and is generally inconsistent and not interacted with by any programs 2020-09-15T20:32:26 #kisslinux <eris> te dir u/sr/share/doc is traditionally a free for all 2020-09-15T20:32:31 #kisslinux <eris> Oh god birch 2020-09-15T20:32:45 #kisslinux <muevoid> ? 2020-09-15T20:32:46 #kisslinux <eris> The* /usr* 2020-09-15T20:32:51 #kisslinux <eris> It seems to be mangling my messages 2020-09-15T20:33:01 #kisslinux <muevoid> I'm gonna try out kirc 2020-09-15T20:33:13 #kisslinux <eris> Anyway; /usr/share/man however is relatively uniform and standard 2020-09-15T20:33:32 #kisslinux <muevoids> /help 2020-09-15T20:33:41 #kisslinux <muevoid> Lol 2020-09-15T20:33:44 #kisslinux <eris> Everyone respects /usr/share/man/man$section/page.$section 2020-09-15T20:33:45 #kisslinux <merakor> How may we help 2020-09-15T20:33:57 #kisslinux <muevoid> I was trying to figure out how to use kirc xD 2020-09-15T20:34:01 #kisslinux <eris> The file format is the same too, down to using the same macros across implementations ' 2020-09-15T20:34:29 #kisslinux <eris> it's all very consistent and shiny down in the man-world compared to /usr/share/doc 2020-09-15T20:35:14 #kisslinux <sh4rm4^bnc> admicos, https://dino-lang.github.io/learn/dino.pdf 2020-09-15T20:35:32 #kisslinux <eris> https://0x0.st/iIxg.png 2020-09-15T20:35:42 #kisslinux <eris> 3 chosen at random 2020-09-15T20:35:43 #kisslinux <sh4rm4^bnc> between 30 and 400x faster than python 2020-09-15T20:36:02 #kisslinux <eris> Wow 2020-09-15T20:36:05 #kisslinux <eris> That's impressive 2020-09-15T20:36:20 #kisslinux <dilyn> eris: it botheres me that /exec is the only four character parent dir 2020-09-15T20:36:20 #kisslinux <muevoid> I'm assuming it is a compiled language then? 2020-09-15T20:37:06 #kisslinux <sh4rm4^bnc> no, interpreted scripting lang, garbage collected 2020-09-15T20:37:15 #kisslinux <muevoid> Is that result with jit or not? 2020-09-15T20:37:31 #kisslinux <eris> dilyn: Worry not, for in the / level hierarchy, /bulk and /conf exist 2020-09-15T20:37:47 #kisslinux <eris> This is package level hierarchy: /pkg/name/* 2020-09-15T20:38:05 #kisslinux <admicos> you should've called /exec, /run 2020-09-15T20:38:14 #kisslinux <muevoid> Also does anyone have a simple groff document I can test? 2020-09-15T20:38:36 #kisslinux <eris> run is taken by udev and runit 2020-09-15T20:38:42 #kisslinux <dilyn> ^ 2020-09-15T20:38:53 #kisslinux <admicos> aw 2020-09-15T20:38:55 #kisslinux <dilyn> why not just do /exe, /blk, /cnf 2020-09-15T20:38:57 #kisslinux <dilyn> :P 2020-09-15T20:39:01 #kisslinux <muevoid> +1 2020-09-15T20:39:02 #kisslinux <eris> Too short 2020-09-15T20:39:06 #kisslinux <dilyn> lol 2020-09-15T20:39:15 #kisslinux <dilyn> how about just longform names all-around 2020-09-15T20:39:20 #kisslinux <dilyn> who needs short dirs 2020-09-15T20:39:23 #kisslinux <eris> They basically become as meaningless as their predecessors 2020-09-15T20:39:31 #kisslinux <admicos> . /binaryfiles /programdata /systemconfiguration 2020-09-15T20:39:33 #kisslinux <dilyn> then your filesystem is self-documenting! 2020-09-15T20:39:40 #kisslinux <eris> Oh god 2020-09-15T20:39:44 #kisslinux <dilyn> lmao 2020-09-15T20:39:54 #kisslinux <eris> That'd be horrible to type when packages need manual intervention 2020-09-15T20:40:06 #kisslinux <admicos> eeh tab completion will solve it 2020-09-15T20:40:08 #kisslinux <admicos> :p 2020-09-15T20:40:13 #kisslinux <sh4rm4^bnc> muevoid, dunno, i guess so because it's even 23x faster than pypy 2020-09-15T20:40:16 #kisslinux <eris> ./configure --bindir=/pkg/name/binaryfiles 2020-09-15T20:40:27 #kisslinux <muevoid> Gotcha 2020-09-15T20:40:33 #kisslinux <eris> admicos: not in the text editor 2020-09-15T20:41:11 #kisslinux <eris> I don't have any fancy autocompletion in my text editor 2020-09-15T20:41:16 #kisslinux <dilyn> just symlink /binaryfiles to /bin 2020-09-15T20:41:20 #kisslinux <dilyn> problem solved 2020-09-15T20:41:29 #kisslinux <dilyn> see, these are great ideas. write these down 2020-09-15T20:41:55 #kisslinux <muevoid> Lol 2020-09-15T20:42:04 #kisslinux <muevoid> I'm gonna do it 100% 2020-09-15T20:42:32 #kisslinux <eris> https://0x0.st/iIx6.png 2020-09-15T20:42:33 #kisslinux <eris> Done 2020-09-15T20:43:00 #kisslinux <eris> On a serious note; I'd never actually considered /exe 2020-09-15T20:43:10 #kisslinux <muevoid> I think /exe is more clean 2020-09-15T20:43:18 #kisslinux <dilyn> very windows-esque 2020-09-15T20:43:19 #kisslinux <muevoid> I like the three letter / directories more 2020-09-15T20:43:22 #kisslinux <eris> I suppose I do not have anything to fear in regards to collision 2020-09-15T20:43:35 #kisslinux <eris> But that leaves /bulk and /conf hanging in the air 2020-09-15T20:43:45 #kisslinux <eris> Which are imho much better than /var and /etc 2020-09-15T20:43:56 #kisslinux <muevoid> con blk I think would be nice 2020-09-15T20:44:23 #kisslinux <eris> con is dangerously close to /com 2020-09-15T20:44:36 #kisslinux <eris> Which for some reason still exists 2020-09-15T20:44:39 #kisslinux <eris> Sometimes 2020-09-15T20:45:07 #kisslinux <muevoid> or as dilyn said cnf 2020-09-15T20:45:09 #kisslinux <eris> I do not wish to trifle with powers unknown 2020-09-15T20:45:16 #kisslinux <admicos> cfg? 2020-09-15T20:45:20 #kisslinux <muevoid> Actually 2020-09-15T20:45:20 #kisslinux <muevoid> yes 2020-09-15T20:45:22 #kisslinux <eris> Oh that's an idea 2020-09-15T20:45:23 #kisslinux <muevoid> cfg is great 2020-09-15T20:45:33 #kisslinux <admicos> bulk => dat? 2020-09-15T20:45:39 #kisslinux <muevoid> I like that too 2020-09-15T20:45:53 #kisslinux <eris> I have /pkg/name/data for where packages dump their general data 2020-09-15T20:46:25 #kisslinux <eris> No clue what that is 2020-09-15T20:46:37 #kisslinux <eris> It's.. inconcistent 2020-09-15T20:47:33 #kisslinux <eris> http://0x0.st/iIxl.png 2020-09-15T20:48:17 #kisslinux <eris> I'll definitely take /exe and /cfg for pass 2 of the bootstrap 2020-09-15T20:54:10 #kisslinux <muevoid> welp I just switched to kirc so far I like it. You are the developer of this mcpcpc[m] correct? 2020-09-15T20:58:55 #kisslinux <mcpcpc[m]> muevoid: yup! 2020-09-15T21:00:45 #kisslinux <muevoid> Is there something like a /help command or /h 2020-09-15T21:01:00 #kisslinux <muevoid> /h 2020-09-15T21:01:02 #kisslinux <muevoid> /help 2020-09-15T21:01:05 #kisslinux <muevoid> I suppose not lol 2020-09-15T21:02:53 #kisslinux <mcpcpc[m]> nope! lol. not yet, at least. :P 2020-09-15T21:03:21 #kisslinux <mcpcpc[m]> would just checkout the project portal for now on gh: https://github.com/mcpcpc/kirc 2020-09-15T21:03:30 #kisslinux <muevoid> kk thank you 2020-09-15T21:03:31 #kisslinux <mcpcpc[m]> for commands 2020-09-15T21:04:14 #kisslinux <muevoid> Ok cool thank you 2020-09-15T21:04:21 #kisslinux <muevoid> I like how all the commands are one letter 2020-09-15T21:06:17 #kisslinux <eris> Who was it who was making the server repository? 2020-09-15T21:06:34 #kisslinux <eris> I've started the effort of porting httpd 2020-09-15T21:06:39 #kisslinux <muevoid> I am 2020-09-15T21:07:02 #kisslinux <muevoid> I have certbot and lighttpd working 2020-09-15T21:08:24 #kisslinux <eris> I need to get my hands on some tmux code 2020-09-15T21:08:38 #kisslinux <eris> As httpd uses an OpenBSD exclusive IPC 2020-09-15T21:10:52 #kisslinux <muevoid> https://github.com/muevoid/kiss-server 2020-09-15T21:11:02 #kisslinux <muevoid> There is a very early version I have to fix depends and such 2020-09-15T21:11:06 #kisslinux <muevoid> And do documentation etc 2020-09-15T21:12:37 #kisslinux <muevoid> I also need to package some other thins I will personally be using 2020-09-15T21:14:02 #kisslinux <merakor> muevoid: I had served carbslinux.org on a carbs server previously 2020-09-15T21:14:17 #kisslinux <muevoid> Ooo nice 2020-09-15T21:14:27 #kisslinux <muevoid> Any other things you think I should package? 2020-09-15T21:14:42 #kisslinux <eris> merakor, I'm cruous 2020-09-15T21:14:45 #kisslinux <eris> *curious 2020-09-15T21:14:54 #kisslinux <admicos> muevoid: something like fail2ban and/or ufw might be nice 2020-09-15T21:14:55 #kisslinux <eris> What was your motivation behind Carbs? 2020-09-15T21:15:07 #kisslinux <muevoid> It's on his wiki I believe 2020-09-15T21:15:08 #kisslinux <eris> It's one of two derivatives that's survived 2020-09-15T21:15:42 #kisslinux <muevoid> Or at least I thought it was 2020-09-15T21:16:00 #kisslinux <muevoid> I believe iirc something about wanting to maintain most of his packages anyways andifferences in package manager 2020-09-15T21:16:32 #kisslinux <merakor> Mine didn't have much, certbot, quark, and a reverse tls that was a pain in the ass to configure properly 2020-09-15T21:16:41 #kisslinux <muevoid> also I am going to package postfix at somepoint 2020-09-15T21:17:54 #kisslinux <eris> Can't find the wiki :< 2020-09-15T21:17:56 #kisslinux <merakor> My intention was to extend it as I wanted fit personally. I have forked the package manager as well. 2020-09-15T21:18:02 #kisslinux <muevoid_> cpt is cool 2020-09-15T21:18:05 #kisslinux <eris> Ah, nice 2020-09-15T21:18:12 #kisslinux <eris> That's my motivation too 2020-09-15T21:18:18 #kisslinux <eris> How've you kept it going for so long? 2020-09-15T21:18:31 #kisslinux <muevoid_> I'm going to probably make my own "fork" at some point as well. 2020-09-15T21:18:49 #kisslinux <eris> There's been a large amount of KISS derivatives which have died 2020-09-15T21:19:08 #kisslinux <muevoid_> I'm pretty confident mine won't 2020-09-15T21:19:13 #kisslinux <eris> GKISS, GNU KISS, kissD, Quinn off the top of my head 2020-09-15T21:19:16 #kisslinux <merakor> I was running my LFS previously so it is not much of a hassle 2020-09-15T21:19:18 #kisslinux <muevoid_> I maintain a lot of packages myself rn anyways. 2020-09-15T21:19:47 #kisslinux <muevoid_> and without any xorg deps I think I finally am going to. Since I have wanted to for a while with my own ideals. 2020-09-15T21:19:52 #kisslinux <muevoid_> As i have very strong ideals :P 2020-09-15T21:19:58 #kisslinux <eris> That's good 2020-09-15T21:20:03 #kisslinux <eris> I'm interested 2020-09-15T21:20:09 #kisslinux <merakor> I am maintaining 278 packages according to repology :D 2020-09-15T21:20:13 #kisslinux <eris> *interested 2020-09-15T21:20:18 #kisslinux <eris> Christ that's a lot 2020-09-15T21:20:41 #kisslinux <merakor> 293 when combined with kiss community 2020-09-15T21:20:41 #kisslinux <muevoid_> If I do decide to make my own I will be maintaing at least 190 plus kiss-server 2020-09-15T21:20:53 #kisslinux <muevoid_> dang merakor 2020-09-15T21:21:15 #kisslinux <eris> So, a fully wayland distribution? 2020-09-15T21:21:16 #kisslinux <muevoid_> Hey illiliti how are you? 2020-09-15T21:21:18 #kisslinux <muevoid_> Yes 2020-09-15T21:21:21 #kisslinux <admicos> luajit be like: WARNING: Compiling the amalgamation needs a lot of virtual memory (around 300 MB with GCC 4.x) 2020-09-15T21:21:36 #kisslinux <eris> How will you deal with browsers? 2020-09-15T21:21:46 #kisslinux <muevoid_> webkit2gtk and qt both work 2020-09-15T21:21:51 #kisslinux <merakor> Carbs is the first KISS fork :) 2020-09-15T21:21:53 #kisslinux <eris> Oh, nice 2020-09-15T21:21:54 #kisslinux <muevoid_> I will only have webki2gtk in main repo though 2020-09-15T21:22:02 #kisslinux <muevoid_> As it's my personal favorite 2020-09-15T21:22:05 #kisslinux <eris> Can you use plain wk2g? 2020-09-15T21:22:25 #kisslinux <muevoid_> I mean someone could use the minibrowser that is included but my personal favorites are badwolf and wyeb 2020-09-15T21:22:41 #kisslinux <illiliti> muevoid_: fine 2020-09-15T21:22:41 #kisslinux <muevoid_> But technically no you can't use plain wk2g 2020-09-15T21:22:47 #kisslinux <eris> Oh, there's a mini browser? 2020-09-15T21:22:53 #kisslinux <eris> Got any screenshots? 2020-09-15T21:22:56 #kisslinux <muevoid_> yeah you can enable it at compile time if youd wish 2020-09-15T21:23:10 #kisslinux <muevoid_> I don't have it compiled rn :< i can try to find one 2020-09-15T21:23:24 #kisslinux <muevoid_> I had it disabled during my last build 2020-09-15T21:24:54 #kisslinux <muevoid_> https://blogs.igalia.com/alex/files/2011/04/webkit2minibrowser.png you can see an old picture of it there. iirc doesn't look too much differnet. But i have not tryed it in a while 2020-09-15T21:25:07 #kisslinux <merakor> I was already trying to roll my own distro, but I couldn't write a good package manager myself. I saw the reddit post of Dylan on r/unixporn and decided to take a look at the package manager. I really liked it and decided to fork the main repository as a starting point. That was December 2019. 2020-09-15T21:25:36 #kisslinux <eris> Ah, nice! 2020-09-15T21:26:12 #kisslinux <muevoid_> Before kiss I was running gentoo with musl and libressl but then got upset when I couldn't get rid of dbus easily. Then I found kiss and it was like basically everything I wanted except wayland. 2020-09-15T21:26:17 #kisslinux <muevoid_> Which now it has that too :) 2020-09-15T21:26:46 #kisslinux <admicos> oh hey i was running gentoo w/ libressl and a package broke because libressl so i switched to kiss on my main machine a couple days ago 2020-09-15T21:27:07 #kisslinux <muevoid_> I don't remember when I switched to k1ss it was at least a few months ago now. 2020-09-15T21:27:21 #kisslinux <eris> I'm curious about libressl vs bearssl 2020-09-15T21:27:27 #kisslinux <muevoid_> At first I was really against the new website. 2020-09-15T21:27:33 #kisslinux <eris> The only distribution I know that uses the latter is Oasis 2020-09-15T21:27:40 #kisslinux <admicos> eris: libressl is openssl but maintained by the openbsd folks (iirc) 2020-09-15T21:27:51 #kisslinux <sh4rm4^bnc> hi illiliti, thanks for your libudev replacement 2020-09-15T21:27:52 #kisslinux <admicos> bearssl is something entirely new and is designed (?) to be lighter 2020-09-15T21:27:59 #kisslinux <eris> Yea, I recall that 2020-09-15T21:28:03 #kisslinux <eris> I think it was in 2013? 2020-09-15T21:28:09 #kisslinux <muevoid_> libudev-zero is amazing 2020-09-15T21:28:13 #kisslinux <eris> that it was forked 2020-09-15T21:28:16 #kisslinux <muevoid_> also tinyramfs 2020-09-15T21:28:20 #kisslinux <admicos> eris: after heartbleed iirc 2020-09-15T21:28:25 #kisslinux <eris> Ah 2020-09-15T21:28:28 #kisslinux <eris> That fiasco 2020-09-15T21:28:51 #kisslinux <illiliti> sh4rm4^bnc: muevoid_: thanks! 2020-09-15T21:28:57 #kisslinux <muevoid_> I wonder if something similar can be done for dbus as was done with libudev-zero 2020-09-15T21:29:04 #kisslinux <eris> I find it funny that OpenBSD's SSL is the only one of their pieces of software that doesn't have `open` prefixed 2020-09-15T21:29:08 #kisslinux <admicos> does libudev-zero support automatic module loading like eudev with kmod? 2020-09-15T21:29:17 #kisslinux <admicos> if so i might switch 2020-09-15T21:29:27 #kisslinux <eris> I don't think it does 2020-09-15T21:29:34 #kisslinux <illiliti> libudev-zero is not device manager 2020-09-15T21:29:53 #kisslinux <muevoid_> it depends on what device manager you use 2020-09-15T21:29:55 #kisslinux <muevoid_> mdev, vdev 2020-09-15T21:29:56 #kisslinux <muevoid_> etc 2020-09-15T21:30:09 #kisslinux <admicos> ah, gotcha 2020-09-15T21:30:21 #kisslinux <admicos> i'll look up if any of them support it 2020-09-15T21:30:46 #kisslinux <illiliti> i personally use mdev with module loading 2020-09-15T21:31:34 #kisslinux <merakor2> bearssl is promising but not stable yet 2020-09-15T21:31:55 #kisslinux <illiliti> https://i.imgur.com/wFxNgBA.jpg 2020-09-15T21:31:58 #kisslinux <merakor2> I had been using it as the default tls library on Carbs for a while 2020-09-15T21:31:59 #kisslinux <illiliti> soon :) 2020-09-15T21:32:05 #kisslinux <merakor2> but switched back to libressl 2020-09-15T21:32:07 #kisslinux <admicos> i ran yes2modconfig on my kernel config a while ago, i like my kernel to be small until it knows it needs something 2020-09-15T21:32:07 #kisslinux <muevoid_> That's what i had thought merakor2 2020-09-15T21:32:40 #kisslinux <mcf> merakor2: what's unstable about it? the api hasn't changed in quite a while 2020-09-15T21:34:07 #kisslinux <merakor2> Especially when I linked curl with bearssl, I couldn't reach some websites. 2020-09-15T21:34:12 #kisslinux <muevoid_> illiliti how did you go about writing libudev-zero do you have experience from the past? 2020-09-15T21:34:59 #kisslinux <merakor2> That might also be certificate issues with the target server, but I didn't have those issues with libressl 2020-09-15T21:35:17 #kisslinux <mcf> merakor2: that's because some websites don't follow the TLS spec. they send certificate chains that are out-of-order, missing some intermediate certificate, or have duplicate certificates 2020-09-15T21:35:44 #kisslinux <mcf> i've had pretty good luck contacting the website administrators to fix their server config 2020-09-15T21:36:05 #kisslinux <merakor2> Oh, I see. 2020-09-15T21:36:46 #kisslinux <merakor2> I personally really liked bearssl and your libtls implementation, but I thought that was related to bearssl. 2020-09-15T21:37:08 #kisslinux <illiliti> muevoid_: libudev-zero is my first project in C 2020-09-15T21:37:13 #kisslinux <illiliti> i learned all stuff on the fly 2020-09-15T21:37:19 #kisslinux <muevoid_> Dang 2020-09-15T21:37:21 #kisslinux <muevoid_> lol 2020-09-15T21:37:24 #kisslinux <admicos> ^ 2020-09-15T21:37:48 #kisslinux <muevoid_> I have written a decent amount of c and don't think I could do that xD 2020-09-15T21:38:52 #kisslinux <mcf> merakor2: it's the type of problem like glibc-isms in project source code. nobody notices if everyone uses glibc. the only way to make progress is to use the better (imo) technology and fix problems when they arise 2020-09-15T21:38:59 #kisslinux <admicos> my only real experience with C is copying patches over from someone else, mashing them up, and hoping it compiles 2020-09-15T21:39:21 #kisslinux <merakor2> mcf: That's so true 2020-09-15T21:40:48 #kisslinux <mcf> 8 years ago, a very large amount of software didn't even build with musl. it's so much better today because people used it, found issues, and opened bugs/sent patches 2020-09-15T21:49:52 #kisslinux <illiliti> > https://i.imgur.com/wFxNgBA.jpg Nobody noticed ? i'm waiting for question: why Go ?? :) 2020-09-15T21:50:40 #kisslinux <merakor2> Why Go? 2020-09-15T21:52:04 #kisslinux <illiliti> well, i really wish i could write kiss in C, but due to lacking major "bloatless" libraries like git i decided to use Go 2020-09-15T21:52:37 #kisslinux <mcf> illiliti: a couple comments on the libudev-zero readme: my libinput branch *does* support device detection and hotplug. the problem is that Xorg does not use those features from libinput and instead relies on libudev 2020-09-15T21:52:38 #kisslinux <illiliti> https://github.com/go-git/go-git << this is very helpful 2020-09-15T21:53:14 #kisslinux <mcf> also, i've been maintaining it for over 3 years now. keeping up with upstream changes has yet to become a nightmare :) 2020-09-15T21:55:06 #kisslinux <merakor2> libtls? 2020-09-15T21:55:17 #kisslinux <mcf> libinput -udev 2020-09-15T21:55:26 #kisslinux <merakor2> Oh 2020-09-15T21:56:45 #kisslinux <illiliti> mcf: i'm not arguing that your libinput doesn't support hotplugging. BUT it's useless because your libinput fork can't be used with device manager due to race conditions 2020-09-15T21:57:54 #kisslinux <illiliti> i.e libinput handled uevent faster then device manager which lead to permissions errors 2020-09-15T21:59:26 #kisslinux <mcf> yeah, that's fair. currently i run with a setuid launcher for my compositor (since until recently, you needed root anyway to drop drm master), so there is no race issue 2020-09-15T22:01:23 #kisslinux <mcf> but it is a bit misleading to say that it requires static device configuration. even if you disregard hotplugging, the sysfs scanning will automatically detect current devices 2020-09-15T22:04:51 #kisslinux <illiliti> sysfs scanning ? 2020-09-15T22:04:56 #kisslinux <illiliti> in Xorg ? 2020-09-15T22:05:07 #kisslinux <mcf> in libinput 2020-09-15T22:06:19 #kisslinux <illiliti> but libinput can detect only input devices, right ? you still need to use static configuration for drm devices 2020-09-15T22:06:29 #kisslinux <mcf> err, i guess just /dev/input scanning 2020-09-15T22:07:35 #kisslinux <mcf> probably for Xorg. i believe most wayland compositors detect the drm device themselves 2020-09-15T22:08:43 #kisslinux <illiliti> nope, wlroots rely on udev for that 2020-09-15T22:10:43 #kisslinux <muevoid_> how do you feel about go illiliti? It is probably my second or third fav language after c 2020-09-15T22:11:19 #kisslinux <muevoid_> yeah wlroots has a hard depend on libinput and udev 2020-09-15T22:11:33 #kisslinux <mcf> ah, i guess just mine then 2020-09-15T22:11:57 #kisslinux <muevoid_> mcf are you running wayland? 2020-09-15T22:12:09 #kisslinux <mcf> yeah 2020-09-15T22:12:25 #kisslinux <muevoid_> if you are using a wlroots based one you can use master and build with seatd support 2020-09-15T22:12:33 #kisslinux <muevoid_> So you don't have to suid 2020-09-15T22:14:48 #kisslinux <muevoid_> or you can do what we do with xorg 2020-09-15T22:14:52 #kisslinux <mcf> i'm using the one i wrote (swc/velox). but yeah, i tested with setgid input and everything works fine on 5.8. but there is the problem that ililliti mentioned with the permissions race 2020-09-15T22:14:55 #kisslinux <muevoid_> and set gid for video and input 2020-09-15T22:14:56 #kisslinux <muevoid_> Ah 2020-09-15T22:15:05 #kisslinux <illiliti> muevoid_: can't say anything about go rn. still learning stuff... 2020-09-15T22:15:10 #kisslinux <muevoid_> You wrote velox? 2020-09-15T22:15:12 #kisslinux <muevoid_> It seems nice 2020-09-15T22:15:17 #kisslinux <muevoid_> and fair enough illiliti 2020-09-15T22:16:01 #kisslinux <muevoid_> I like the build times on go compared to other modern languages. 2020-09-15T22:16:14 #kisslinux <mcpcpc[m]> illiliti: you want to try this ipv6 “force” argument, to make sure it was what you were asking for (e.g. `kirc -n <nick> -6`? https://github.com/mcpcpc/kirc/tree/ipv6_2 2020-09-15T22:17:16 #kisslinux <mcpcpc[m]> also, the current master branch should automatically default to IPv6. 2020-09-15T22:19:33 #kisslinux <mcpcpc[m]> the branch doesn’t work for me tho. i think it has to do with my host file, which i am too lazy to fix. lol. 2020-09-15T22:20:00 #kisslinux <illiliti> mcf: not only permissions. your libinput limited only to input devices, while libudev-zero is more general and can be used as drop-in replacement without patches 2020-09-15T22:21:27 #kisslinux <illiliti> mcpcpc[m]: will do 2020-09-15T22:23:56 #kisslinux <mcf> illiliti: of course. i think libudev-zero is great (i considered doing the same thing a while back). i'm just saying that my libinput branch does support device detection (and hotplugging, to some degree) 2020-09-15T22:29:55 #kisslinux <illiliti> mcf: as far as i understand you can't use automatic detection and hotplugging on Xorg without extra patching (using libinput_netlink api instead udev) 2020-09-15T22:30:46 #kisslinux <mcf> yeah, that's what i was saying. xorg doesn't use the device detection/hotplugging features of libinput. but they *are* there 2020-09-15T22:31:19 #kisslinux <mcf> i.e. it is not a deficiency of libinput, but xorg 2020-09-15T22:32:04 #kisslinux <muevoid_> I've started porting herbe to wayland 2020-09-15T22:36:11 #kisslinux <illiliti> mcpcpc[m]: looks like it works 2020-09-15T22:39:00 #kisslinux <illiliti> netstat says kirc uses ipv6 :) 2020-09-15T22:47:08 #kisslinux <illiliti> mcf: because Xorg doesn't(and shouldn't) know about homemade patches. libinput_netlink API is not upstreamed 2020-09-15T22:47:15 #kisslinux <mcpcpc[m]> illiliti: woot! is that with the `-p` argument? 2020-09-15T22:47:43 #kisslinux <illiliti> mcf: btw do you plan to send libinput_netlink patches to upstream ? 2020-09-15T22:47:47 #kisslinux <illiliti> without 2020-09-15T22:51:04 #kisslinux <mcf> but if it did make use of udev_seat rather than doing udev itself, it would be trivial to swap it out for netlink_seat 2020-09-15T22:51:42 #kisslinux <mcpcpc[m]> illiliti: ah. well that’s good. would you mind checking if the `-p` argument also works for you? 2020-09-15T22:52:00 #kisslinux <mcpcpc[m]> it will also tell me if there is something wrong with my host file. lol 2020-09-15T22:52:13 #kisslinux <mcf> i might, not sure. one thing still missing is detection of some sysfs attributes so the quirks database is effectively disabled 2020-09-15T22:59:25 #kisslinux <illiliti> mcpcpc[m]: i tried -p with 6667(valid port) and everything works fine 2020-09-15T22:59:37 #kisslinux <illiliti> with invalid port it fails as expected 2020-09-15T23:00:26 #kisslinux <mcpcpc[m]> illiliti: awesome. that’s great. thank again! 2020-09-15T23:02:43 #kisslinux <illiliti> mcf: what exactly missing ? 2020-09-15T23:04:47 #kisslinux <mcf> i think mainly just the "PRODUCT" udev property 2020-09-15T23:14:01 #kisslinux <illiliti> this property easy to parse from uevent file or id/* files 2020-09-15T23:14:42 #kisslinux <illiliti> maybe there is also exist ioctl call for that 2020-09-15T23:16:42 #kisslinux <mcf> yeah, i don't think it should be too hard, i just didn't do it :P (my devices aren't quirky enough, i guess) 2020-09-15T23:18:15 #kisslinux <illiliti> fair