💾 Archived View for gemi.dev › gemini-mailing-list › 001034.gmi captured on 2023-12-28 at 15:56:53. Gemini links have been rewritten to link to archived content
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Hi all, If anyone is interested, I can start putting together a proposal for a Gemini Usenet newsgroup. comp.infosystems.gopher is still around and active. A new comp.infosystems.gemini could be created in the classic Usenet Big-8 hierarchies but we need people who are willing to say that they would use it before it could be created. Full disclosure: I am a member of the Usenet Big-8 Management Board which creates and manages the Big-8 Usenet Hierarchies. see: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Big_8_(Usenet) and https://big-8.org and we are looking to create groups for people who want to use Usenet. We're not for profit and we don't make any money except enough to cover expenses. Jason
Hi Jason, Here you go: > Gemini is awesome enough to encourage me to finally dabble with Usenet Newsgroups (poor you) ==================== Jonathan McHugh indieterminacy@libre.brussels September 27, 2021 11:39 AM, "Jason Evans" <jsevans@mailfence.com> wrote: > Hi all, > > If anyone is interested, I can start putting together a proposal for a > Gemini Usenet newsgroup. comp.infosystems.gopher is still around and > active. A new comp.infosystems.gemini could be created in the classic > Usenet Big-8 hierarchies but we need people who are willing to say that > they would use it before it could be created. > > Full disclosure: I am a member of the Usenet Big-8 Management Board > which creates and manages the Big-8 Usenet Hierarchies. see: > https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Big_8_(Usenet) and https://big-8.org and > we are looking to create groups for people who want to use Usenet. We're > not for profit and we don't make any money except enough to cover expenses. > > Jason
orbitalfox.eu which hosts the Gemini mailing list also has an nntp server of its own, as far as I know. Although it sounds like you are talking about something much bigger. -- gemini://kwiecien.us/
Hello Jason, I would and could use it as I used usenet in the distant past. A usenet group might also be more in the same spirit of the Gemini protocol then an e-mail list? What do you think? But I wonder, what is the added value compared to reading a mailing list? One answer is that my mailbox doesn't get full with group messages and e-mail is more for one on one communication or to receiv one way centralized updates and usenet is ideally suited for group discussion. That and usenet has moderation features (perhaps this mailing-list has as well). Perhaps a mirror gateway can be set up. Kind regards, Francis Siefken Op ma 27 sep. 2021 om 11:39 schreef Jason Evans <jsevans@mailfence.com>: > > Hi all, > > If anyone is interested, I can start putting together a proposal for a > Gemini Usenet newsgroup. comp.infosystems.gopher is still around and > active. A new comp.infosystems.gemini could be created in the classic > Usenet Big-8 hierarchies but we need people who are willing to say that > they would use it before it could be created. > > Full disclosure: I am a member of the Usenet Big-8 Management Board > which creates and manages the Big-8 Usenet Hierarchies. see: > https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Big_8_(Usenet) and https://big-8.org and > we are looking to create groups for people who want to use Usenet. We're > not for profit and we don't make any money except enough to cover expenses. > > Jason
Ben <benulo@systemli.org> writes: > orbitalfox.eu which hosts the Gemini mailing list also has an nntp > server of its own, as far as I know. Although it sounds like you are > talking about something much bigger. Relatedly, I'll mention that this list is available via NNTP from news.gmane.io in the group gmane.network.protocols.gemini. A comp.infosystems.gemini would be distributed across the whole federated Usenet, rather than just a single NNTP server. Gmane is a useful way to interact with mailing lists for people who don't want list traffic mixed in with the rest of their email. It's especially good for lists that one uses infrequently. I'm not sure that there'd be enough traffic to warrant a Usenet group. I mean, this list isn't really high-traffic, so it's probably more than sufficient. I think to make it useful and not split the community you'd also want a bi-directional gateway to the mailing list, which likely comes with its own set of problems. -- Chris
On 9/27/21 14:10, Chris Brannon wrote: > I'm not sure that there'd be enough traffic to warrant a Usenet group. > I mean, this list isn't really high-traffic, so it's probably more than > sufficient. I think to make it useful and not split the community you'd > also want a bi-directional gateway to the mailing list, which likely > comes with its own set of problems. > > -- Chris The Gemini mailing list is active enough to warrant a news group. The question is would there be enough people would would be willing to use it. Forwarding the mailing list to Usenet isn't a problem. Lots of groups do that also. I've already written a couple of tutorials on how to get started with Usenet for people who aren't familiar with it if they are interested: https://www.big-8.org/wiki/Tutorials Anyway, I'm really happy with the community here. You've been very helpful. I'm hoping to include a bunch of historical newsgroup archives in my capsule soon (after I fix lingering some bugs). Jason gemini://gemini.theuse.net
Jason Evans <jsevans@mailfence.com> writes:
> If anyone is interested, I can start putting together a proposal for a
> Gemini Usenet newsgroup. comp.infosystems.gopher is still around and
> active. A new comp.infosystems.gemini could be created in the classic
> Usenet Big-8 hierarchies but we need people who are willing to say
> that they would use it before it could be created.
I currently read comp.infosystems.gopher (via eternal-september), and I
would read and post to comp.infosystems.gemini (or
alt.internet.protocol.gemini.bork.bork.bork, for that matter) if it
existed.
--
Jason McBrayer | “Strange is the night where black stars rise,
jmcbray@carcosa.net | and strange moons circle through the skies,
| but stranger still is lost Carcosa.”
| ― Robert W. Chambers,The King in Yellow
Jason Evans <jsevans@mailfence.com> writes: > The question is would there be enough people would would be willing to use > it. I would. I've got text group access from one of the free text group providers out there. I've also been tempted at times to find a peer and pull a full text-only feed, E.G., to provide Usenet service to other members of the co-op where I host. But I'm not sure if it would be worth the effort. -- Chris
I haven't used Usenet before but if there was an easy and costless way to use it (as there appears to be, based on the tutorial you linked) then I would certainly try it as an alternative to the mailing list. My initial thought was that there is no real reason to move away from the mailing list but it would actually be convenient to separate these discussions from my other emails (this is the only mailing list I use). I suspect we would need to keep the mailing list and mirror it to Usenet though, as having Usenet as the only means of accessing community discussions would raise the barrier to entry to quite a high level IMO. On 27/09/2021 10:39, Jason Evans wrote: > Hi all, > > If anyone is interested, I can start putting together a proposal for a > Gemini Usenet newsgroup. comp.infosystems.gopher is still around and > active. A new comp.infosystems.gemini could be created in the classic > Usenet Big-8 hierarchies but we need people who are willing to say that > they would use it before it could be created. > > Full disclosure: I am a member of the Usenet Big-8 Management Board > which creates and manages the Big-8 Usenet Hierarchies. see: > https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Big_8_(Usenet) and https://big-8.org and > we are looking to create groups for people who want to use Usenet. We're > not for profit and we don't make any money except enough to cover expenses. > > Jason >
On Mon Sep 27, 2021 at 12:39 PM +03, Jason Evans wrote: > Hi all, > > If anyone is interested, I can start putting together a proposal for a > Gemini Usenet newsgroup. comp.infosystems.gopher is still around and > active. A new comp.infosystems.gemini could be created in the classic > Usenet Big-8 hierarchies but we need people who are willing to say that > they would use it before it could be created. This is great news. I think Gemini and Usenet have some audience overlap and it's a good idea to have an avenue of discussion that does not rely on a single mail list. I read and participate in different Usenet newsgroups, and Gemini will be a welcome addition to the list. -- Leo
This 'Usenet Big-8 Management Board' seems quite centralised IMO. -- Securely sent with Tutanota. Get your own encrypted, ad-free mailbox at https://tutanota.com or https://protonmail.ch. https://fastmail.fm is not encrypted but has some privacy. You can search for more providers.
On Fri, 1 Oct 2021 19:49:28 +0200 (CEST) Jason Evans wrote: > I've written up a proposal for the comp.infosystems.gemini newsgroup here: https://www.big-8.org/wiki/Comp.infosystems.gemini_RFD. If this is OK with everyone, I would like someone else to post this to news.groups.proposals and to news.groups for discussion and have at least 2 or 3 people reply to the article on news.groups saying that they agree with the proposal and that they would like to see this new newsgroup created. Thanks for this! As the proposal as posted in news.groups got some feedback for revision, shall we collaboratively try to address these? Maybe using the following Etherpad URL. Cheers https://pads.ccc.de/comp-infosystems-gemini-rfd
On Mon, 27 Sep 2021 11:39:03 +0200, Jason Evans wrote: > If anyone is interested, I can start putting together a proposal for a > Gemini Usenet newsgroup. comp.infosystems.gopher is still around and > active. A new comp.infosystems.gemini could be created in the classic > Usenet Big-8 hierarchies but we need people who are willing to say that > they would use it before it could be created. Usenet is a worldwide distributed discussion system established in 1980. Thanks to Jason and others, there is an official announcement to discuss (and soon vote for or against if I understand correctly) the creation of the newsgroup specifically for Gemini. As there is no central server in Usenet users have to choose one to connect to the network. Currently free and simple access seems to be the service offered by AIOE, also a nonprofit project: https://news.aioe.org Various Usenet clients are available, Thunderbird being a popular choice. Simply add an Other/Newsgroup Account via Thunderbird's Account Actions dialog. Then find some interesting groups to subscribe to via Manage newsgroup subscriptions. For testing one's account testgroups in the group hierarchy local to the chosen server are available, e.g. aioe.test The creation of the Gemini newsgroup was recently topic in the following groups: news.groups news.announce.newgroups news.groups.proposals Further interesting groups might be under comp.infosystems.* of course. Personally I like the decentral concept of Usenet and enjoy that subscribing to groups does not fill my personal email inbox. Thanks for reading. -- https://www.big-8.org lists clients and servers to choose from under "About Usenet".
Greetings all, As Ben <benulo@systemli.org> mentioned, I run a NNTP and I'm posting this message from it. Some of the original members of the lists (used to) access the mailing list from it. It's my joy to revitalise mail-groups and news-groups. I intent to relay (federate) my NNTP server with other NNTP servers. My next step is to federate the tilde NNTP server I recently became aware, if the admin(s) agree to. Open to relaying with others too. If anyone wishes for an account on my NNTP server, please email me.
On Fri, 08 Oct 2021 17:50:04 +0000, Plain Text wrote: > On Mon, 27 Sep 2021 11:39:03 +0200, Jason Evans wrote: > >> If anyone is interested, I can start putting together a proposal for a >> Gemini Usenet newsgroup. I'm happy to read in news.announce.newgroups,news.groups.proposals: > the Big-8 Management Board has decided by 3/3 consensus to create > unmoderated newsgroup comp.infosystems.gemini. Reading https://www.big-8.org/wiki/Category:Group_Creation, I guess their Technical Team will as a next step craft a PGP-signed control message for News service providers to create the group. Thanks!
October 22, 2021 8:01:21 PM CEST Plain Text <text@sdfeu.org> wrote: I'm happy to read in news.announce.newgroups,news.groups.proposals: > the Big-8 Management Board has decided by 3/3 consensus to create > unmoderated newsgroup comp.infosystems.gemini. Reading https://www.big-8.org/wiki/Category:Group_Creation, I guess their Technical Team will as a next step craft a PGP-signed control message for News service providers to create the group. Thanks! Exactly! I sent off the email to our technical team on Friday. I was told that they would queue it up today. However, this is the first "Big-8" newsgroup to be created in 8 years so things might be a bit rusty. I'll keep you informed on the status. Best Regards, Jason Evans
Le 25/10/2021 à 13:53, Jason Evans a écrit : > Exactly! I sent off the email to our technical team on Friday. I was > told that they would queue it up today. However, this is the first > "Big-8" newsgroup to be created in 8 years so things might be a bit > rusty. I'll keep you informed on the status. It seems to have propagated out to individual.net, I'm on a couple of other servers but it's not got that far. I'm yet to check if free.fr (proxad.net) has picked it up, mainly because my connection is nearly dead (again). Anybody else seen it in the wild ? -Kévin
Kévin <usenet.3hf77@id.oh.mg> writes:
> Le 25/10/2021 à 13:53, Jason Evans a écrit :
>
>> Exactly! I sent off the email to our technical team on Friday. I was
>> told that they would queue it up today. However, this is the first
>> "Big-8" newsgroup to be created in 8 years so things might be a bit
>> rusty. I'll keep you informed on the status.
>
> It seems to have propagated out to individual.net, I'm on a couple of
> other servers but it's not got that far. I'm yet to check if free.fr
> (proxad.net) has picked it up, mainly because my connection is nearly
> dead (again).
>
> Anybody else seen it in the wild ?
It doesn't appear (to me) to be on eternal-september.org yet.
--
Jason McBrayer | “Strange is the night where black stars rise,
jmcbray@carcosa.net | and strange moons circle through the skies,
| but stranger still is lost Carcosa.”
| ― Robert W. Chambers,The King in Yellow
Hello! I'm interested in Gemini and discussed it on IRC when it was in its much earlier stages. I have few things to do before setting it up for myself (hardware issues). On 26/10/2021 18:51, Kévin wrote: > It seems to have propagated out to individual.net, I'm on a couple of > other servers but it's not got that far. I'm yet to check if free.fr > (proxad.net) has picked it up I've been asking around and collecting recommendations for Usenet servers, but I've still got a long way to go for my project[1], which I think fits the spirit of Gemini. Can anybody who is able please send me their recommendations for good Usenet services? I'm interested in discussion groups, source code groups, and the like. (Basically everything except binary groups.) DejaNews was a good service and Google Groups is OK. It's unfortunate they don't have an NNTP interface. On the other hand it's fantastic when I want to find a thread I remember from a long time ago. Kind regards, Andrew [1] My project is that I'm assembling an archive of Usenet to host it publicly as a free (libre friendly) service. In particular I'm missing a few years in the 1990's, which ironically just so happen to be the years I was most active. Usenet is a treasure trove for history and education. For example, reading comp.lang.c while I was an undergraduate student was critical in my understanding of the finer points of the language. Although it's extremely unlikely that anybody has a Usenet service back that far, I nevertheless want to do some quality control on my archives and keep up to date with new Usenet activity. Coincidentally I'm also looking for a (professional) email service provider as mine shutting down at the end of this year, which is unfortunate because they have been perfect. I've seen lists of trusted providers in the past but I haven't been able to find them. If anybody has recommendations then please let me know. A service that uses Cyrus would be particularly good.
This email list is fine. We don't need a usenet list. That will only serve to fracture the community further. It is hard enough for me to use email the ways that these lists want. Adding a whole new protocol that I have no idea how to use is enough overhead that it will cause me to lose interest in this project at all. Do what you want, but be aware that fracturing the community is only ever a bad thing. On Wed Oct 27, 2021 at 5:35 PM UTC, Andrew Luke Nesbit wrote: > Hello! > > I'm interested in Gemini and discussed it on IRC when it was in its much > earlier stages. I have few things to do before setting it up for myself > (hardware issues). > > On 26/10/2021 18:51, Kévin wrote: > > It seems to have propagated out to individual.net, I'm on a couple of > > other servers but it's not got that far. I'm yet to check if free.fr > > (proxad.net) has picked it up > > I've been asking around and collecting recommendations for Usenet > servers, but I've still got a long way to go for my project[1], which I > think fits the spirit of Gemini. Can anybody who is able please send me > their recommendations for good Usenet services? > > I'm interested in discussion groups, source code groups, and the like. > (Basically everything except binary groups.) > > DejaNews was a good service and Google Groups is OK. It's unfortunate > they don't have an NNTP interface. On the other hand it's fantastic > when I want to find a thread I remember from a long time ago. > > Kind regards, > > Andrew > > [1] My project is that I'm assembling an archive of Usenet to host it > publicly as a free (libre friendly) service. In particular I'm missing > a few years in the 1990's, which ironically just so happen to be the > years I was most active. Usenet is a treasure trove for history and > education. For example, reading comp.lang.c while I was an > undergraduate student was critical in my understanding of the finer > points of the language. > > Although it's extremely unlikely that anybody has a Usenet service back > that far, I nevertheless want to do some quality control on my archives > and keep up to date with new Usenet activity. > > Coincidentally I'm also looking for a (professional) email service > provider as mine shutting down at the end of this year, which is > unfortunate because they have been perfect. I've seen lists of trusted > providers in the past but I haven't been able to find them. If anybody > has recommendations then please let me know. A service that uses Cyrus > would be particularly good. Christine Dodrill https://christine.website .i la budza pu cusku lu <<.i ko snura .i ko kanro .i ko panpi .i ko gleki
Le 27/10/2021 à 19:47, Christine Dodrill a écrit : > This email list is fine. We don't need a usenet list. That will only > serve to fracture the community further. It is hard enough for me to use > email the ways that these lists want. Adding a whole new protocol that I > have no idea how to use is enough overhead that it will cause me to lose > interest in this project at all. > > Do what you want, but be aware that fracturing the community is only > ever a bad thing. That's, um, pretty doom and gloom. There isn't any reason why the usenet group and the mailing list can't co-exist, or hey even cross post. A lot of people have different preferences for their reading experience, mine (Screenshot : https://gurl.oh.mg/bbara) is different to yours and that's cool. -Kévin
Le 27/10/2021 à 19:35, Andrew Luke Nesbit a écrit : > Hello! Hola ! > I've been asking around and collecting recommendations for Usenet > servers, but I've still got a long way to go for my project[1], which I > think fits the spirit of Gemini. Can anybody who is able please send me > their recommendations for good Usenet services? > > I'm interested in discussion groups, source code groups, and the like. > (Basically everything except binary groups.) That's a very good question, my ISP holds posts from the 90s in some groups. Individual.net has about 3 years. You can try a free trial with some of the binary usenet providers, sometimes they have a decent archive. Alternatively, some of the older providers on the net might have what you're looking for. > [1] My project is that I'm assembling an archive of Usenet to host it > publicly as a free (libre friendly) service. In particular I'm missing > a few years in the 1990's, which ironically just so happen to be the > years I was most active. Usenet is a treasure trove for history and > education. For example, reading comp.lang.c while I was an > undergraduate student was critical in my understanding of the finer > points of the language. That sounds pretty cool, let me know when you get it rolling ! > Coincidentally I'm also looking for a (professional) email service > provider as mine shutting down at the end of this year, which is > unfortunate because they have been perfect. I've seen lists of trusted > providers in the past but I haven't been able to find them. If anybody > has recommendations then please let me know. A service that uses Cyrus > would be particularly good. If you need SMTP and IMAP - mailbox.org (Germany) is extremely popular, I've also had a great experience with runbox.com (Norway). I've also had a look at infomaniak.com (Switzerland) which seems alright. If you're looking for fully encrypted, ProtonMail (which I currently use with SimpleLogin.io for alias domains) is very good but their SMTP / IMAP bridge can be flakey + they're a touch expensive. My preference really is tutanota.com, it's the cheapest but no SMTP / IMAP capabilities. -Kévin
On 2021-10-27 18:35, Andrew Luke Nesbit wrote: > I'm interested in discussion groups, source code groups, and the like. > (Basically everything except binary groups.) https://www.eternal-september.org/ > DejaNews was a good service and Google Groups is OK. It's unfortunate > they don't have an NNTP interface. On the other hand it's fantastic > when I want to find a thread I remember from a long time ago. Google Groups is in my killfile. Find out how to block it there: => http://twovoyagers.com/improve-usenet.org/filters_bg.html > [1] My project is that I'm assembling an archive of Usenet to host it > publicly as a free (libre friendly) service. In particular I'm missing > a few years in the 1990's, which ironically just so happen to be the > years I was most active. Usenet is a treasure trove for history and > education. For example, reading comp.lang.c while I was an > undergraduate student was critical in my understanding of the finer > points of the language. Doesn't archive.org have Usenet archive?
Le 27/10/2021 à 22:28, Anna “CyberTailor” a écrit : > Doesn't archive.org have Usenet archive? They do and I totally forgot about it ! https://archive.org/details/usenet?sort=-downloads -Kévin
I feel dense but any recommended resources for newbies or should i just go to that eternal september link and go on walkabout?
On Wed, 27 Oct 2021 15:40:29 -0500, Andrew Singleton wrote: > I feel dense but any recommended resources for newbies or should i just > go to that eternal september link and go on walkabout? At this time, comp.infosystems.gemini is carried via freely accessible non-profit news provider aioe.org, cf. https://news.aioe.org/ I guess Thunderbird still is a popular News client to start with. Simply add another account under "Other/News", enter nntp.aioe.org and subscribe to comp.infosystems.gemini or some other interesting groups (if not empty, though). It seems Solderpunk copied their `I have returned` message over there, tonight :)
On 2021-10-27 15:40, Andrew Singleton wrote: > I feel dense but any recommended resources for newbies or should i just > go to that eternal september link and go on walkabout? Choose an NNTP client and login with your eternal-september credentials. Browse loong list of newsgroups, subscribe to some of them. Learn how to filter spam. **Learn Usenet etiquette.** Post articles and reply to them (or stay read-only). Also check out tildeverse Usenet: news.tilde.club (i can't remember where have i seen gemlog post about nice usenet places like Amethyst Coffeehouse)
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