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BACKGROUND: Jen-Cat (her choice for a nickname) is an eight year
old girl being raised in a pagan family. Her mother is a spo-
radic Wiccan who has been hesitant about getting in to the sub-
ject too heavily with Jen-Cat. Jen-Cat would like to be involved
more with paganism after her few experiences with the Circles.
Her mother is a solitary practitioner. Unfortunately, there is
not much privacy because our pagan family lives upstairs from the
in-laws. Jen-Cat's grandmother, in particular, is nosy and likes
to play 20 questions for the hell of it. (NO ONE EXPECTS THE
SPANISH INQUISITION!!!) Jen-Cat has been told not to discuss any
ceremonies with Grandma and to tell other "Inquiring Minds" that
her religion is a private affair. The following interview with
Jen-Cat was conducted by her mother. The questions also touch on
how Jen-Cat interprets what little she knows, just what someone
her age gets out of it, persecution by nosy relatives, and relat-
ed beliefs.
WHAT DO YOU THINK BEING PAGAN MEANS?
I think it means that you believe in Goddesses and all different
kinds of other Gods.
HOW DOES IT COMPARE WITH CHRISTIANITY?
Christianity? I think it's better than Christianity.
WHY?
Because with Paganism I can believe it if I want. But, I'm
forced to believe in Christianity because Grandma's always forc-
ing it on me. Besides it's fun to believe in different Gods and
Goddesses.
WHAT DO YOU THINK OF THE RITUALS?
I think that it's fun. It's kind of neat worshiping the Goddess
'cause it's like worshiping the planet, because the Goddess is
Mother Earth.
HOW DOES IT COMPARE WITH BEING IN A CHRISTIAN CHURCH? (J was
recently a flower-girl at a cousin's wedding - R.C. full mass)
I feel like I was forced into going into the church, and I felt
uncomfortable. I had to go to rehearsals for the wedding and the
entire wedding. Grandma says instead of believing in Egyptian
Goddesses, I should believe in something beautiful, like God and
it makes me sick.
DO YOU FEEL LIKE YOUR MOTHER IS FORCING YOU TO BE PAGAN?
No! No! No! No! (Emphasis, J's) I LIKE being Pagan.
BUT ALL THE OTHER KIDS ARE CHRISTIANS . . .
Yeah, and I know I can get in trouble if they find out if I am
Pagan. But being Pagan is neat.
WHAT'S SO NEAT ABOUT IT?
It isn't forced on you. Once, some kid asked me if I was Chris-
tian and I said no and he said "You have no life kid. Get a job."
I hate it that everyone around me wants to force Christianity on
me.
WOULD YOU FEEL MORE COMFORTABLE IF YOU WERE CHRISTIAN LIKE EVERY-
ONE ELSE?
No, because Paganism is my choice. At least this one I like.
DOES YOUR GRANDMOTHER PRESSURE YOU A LOT?
_YES!!!!_
WOULD YOU LIKE TO BE INVOLVED WITH MORE RITUALS?
Yes, I would.
WHAT WAS YOUR FAVORITE RITUAL?
Being in a Circle and welcoming in new things . . . like tonight,
welcoming in the New Year.
ARE YOU AFRAID OF ANY OF THE RITUALS?
No, I like them.
HOW DO YOU FEEL DURING A RITUAL?
I feel good because I WANT to be there.
DO YOU GET TO PARTICIPATE ENOUGH?
I'd like to do more.
WHAT ELSE CAN YOU TELL ME? HOW DO OUR BELIEFS DIFFER FROM WHAT
YOU KNOW OF CHRISTIANITY?
The big difference is that Christians find people who aren't
Christian and forced them to be Christian so the rest of their
lives they're miserable.
DO YOU THINK A LOT OF CHRISTIANS ARE HAPPY?
Yes. If they start off Christian they learn to like it. I
started off Pagan, so I like it.
DO YOU KNOW WHAT SIN IS?
No. (And didn't "grok" the explanation, either)
WHAT ABOUT HEAVEN?
I don't really believe it. Grandma says it's true but I don't
have any personal proof.
SO WHAT HAPPENS AFTER DEATH?
I think your body goes into the ground and your spirit goes into
another living animal so you're kinda still alive.
WHAT ABOUT HELL?
The same thing as Heaven and I don't believe in it.
ANGELS?
No.
DEVILS?
No.
DOES GRANDMA EVER TRY TO SCARE YOU WITH THE DEVIL?
Yeah.
WHAT DOES SHE SAY?
She said sometimes . . . we get in fights . . . and she says "Go
to Hell." (J seemed to be hedging, as if she didn't want to get
Grandma in trouble).
ARE YOU AT ALL SUPERSTITIOUS?
No. Why should I believe black cats are bad luck? I have a
black cat at home and he crosses my path every single day. I
don't have bad luck.
DO YOU BELIEVE IN VAMPIRES AND WEREWOLVES?
No. I think it's fun to watch horror movies and draw pictures of
them. Grandma says I shouldn't believe in them but I should
believe in something beautiful, like God.
WHAT DO YOU THINK THE CHRISTIAN GOD IS LIKE?
I don't really believe in him.
HOW ABOUT JESUS?
He could have been a man on earth and crucified, but, I don't
think he really took his father's place.
WAS JESUS NICE IN THE STORIES, THOUGH?
Oh, Yes!
DO YOU KNOW WHAT A JEW IS?
Yeah, they are the people who crucified Jesus (Mom turns white
at this)
WHO TOLD YOU THIS?!
I saw it in that movie you had . . .JESUS CHRIST SUPERSTAR.
DID YOU KNOW JESUS WAS JEWISH?
(Laughs) No.
DO YOUR GRANDPARENTS EVER SAY ANYTHING ABOUT THE JEWS?
They never bring them up. (Mom breathes big sigh of relief!)
DID YOU KNOW THAT THE JEWISH RELIGION WAS THE BASIS OF CHRISTIAN-
ITY?
Yes, I did. (Mom doubts this.)
DID YOU KNOW THE JEWISH GOD IS THE SAME ONE AS THE CHRISTIAN GOD?
Yes.
WHAT IS YOUR FAVORITE MYTHOLOGY OUT OF THE ONES I'VE READ TO YOU?
(Christian, Celtic, Egyptian, Greek, Japanese, Native American,
and Norse)
Egyptian.
WHAT DO YOU LIKE ABOUT EGYPTIAN?
So neat! I like Bast and Isis. Bast is a cat; I like cats and
Isis represents the Mother in Egypt.
WHAT'S YOUR FAVORITE STORY?
Medusa.
WHAT DO YOU LIKE ABOUT THAT?
I like it when her blood turned into that beautiful horse, Pega-
sus.
DO YOU THINK IT'S A TRUE STORY?
No. I don't think a god would get nutty enough to turn a girl
into an ugly thing.
WHAT ARE SOME OTHER STORIES YOU LIKE?
Grendel, the minotaur, and the time Isis' husband was chopped
into fish bait.
DO YOU BELIEVE IN MAGICK?
Well . . . I think it's kinda magickal when we sit around the
Circle.
IS IT HARD TO KEEP A SECRET?
You mean hard not to tell anyone what we do up here? (Mom nods)
Well, no . . . because I know if someone finds out they might
call the police because I won't be accepted. (NOTE: nothing
about the rituals performed are illegal. Stories of the witch-
craft persecutions obviously made an impression.)
DO YOU THINK WE DO ANYTHING WRONG?
No.
DO WE EVER DO ANYTHING HARMFUL?
No.
DO YOU KNOW SOME OF THE PAGAN HOLIDAYS?
No.
WHAT ABOUT YULE? WE JUST CELEBRATED THAT.
Oh yeah, I remember that. You have a special recipe for that.
BELTANE?
Spring? I like that!
EASTER?
That's neat, I love Easter. You find lots of eggs.
DID YOU KNOW EASTER WAS CHRISTIAN?
No, I thought they stole it from our religion.
JESUS WAS SUPPOSED TO RISE FROM THE DEAD ON EASTER AFTER HE WAS
CRUCIFIED.
To tell the truth, I like all holidays. Like Christmas, I like
opening presents.
WHAT'S YOUR FAVORITE HOLIDAY?
Halloween.
WHY?
It's so fun, you get to dress up in neat costumes and remember
the dead people you liked who died a long time ago and you get to
get candy.
DO YOU THINK OF YOUR MOTHER AS A WITCH?
(Shocked) No way!
WHAT DO YOU THINK OF HER AS?
Just a normal mother who teaches me stuff I like.
DO YOU KNOW SOME PAGANS CALL THEMSELVES WITCHES?
They do? I get rid of bullies sometimes by telling them I'm a
goblin. I say "Hey, I'm a goblin and I have magickal powers and
if you don't watch out I might kick you where it hurts while
you're in midair."
SO YOU THINK THEY SAY THEY'RE WITCHES TO SCARE PEOPLE?
Well, I only use the goblin story to scare people.
WHAT IS A WITCH?
A thing that rides a broom with a black cat screaming in her ear
and has magickal powers to cast spells.
ARE ANY WITCHES GOOD?
Well, two in THE WIZARD OF OZ (book). I don't know if any pagan
witches are good.
WHERE DID YOU LEARN ABOUT WITCHES?
Horror movies and comics.
IS YOUR RELIGION A NATURE RELIGION?
Yeah, I like to study all different plants and stuff.
HOW DOES YOUR RELIGION TEACH YOU TO TREAT OTHER LIVING THINGS?
It teaches you to treat them good and not dis'pectfully. You
should treat them respectfully.
HOW MANY RITUALS HAVE YOU ATTENDED?
I remember the spring one when we had a special dinner and wel-
comed in spring. (Maybe four or five.)
RIGHT NOW YOU JOIN IN CIRCLES WITH YOUR PARENTS. DO YOU THINK IT
WOULD BE BETTER WITH MORE PEOPLE?
Yeah, then it shows that more people believe.
DO YOU THINK THAT PAGANISM IS GOOD TO TEACH CHILDREN?
Yes, but, if they don't want to listen, you shouldn't force
religion on them.
DO YOU EVER THINK OF YOUR OWN RITUALS?
Yes. I do. I think we should look at a picture of the Goddess
we're worshiping while we're worshiping her.
DO YOU BELIEVE IN GODS AND GODDESSES?
Yes.
WHAT IF I TOLD YOU THAT THE DIFFERENT NAMES FOR THESE GODDESSES
WERE JUST DIFFERENT WAYS OF THINKING OF THE LIFE FORCE?
I don't know about that.
WELL, IF YOU ARE THINKING OF NATURE, YOU MIGHT APPEAL TO GAEA OR
DEMETER, AND IF YOU WANTED KNOWLEDGE, ISIS, HECATE OR ATHENA.
BUT, THEY ARE ALL PART OF THE SAME FORCE . . .OR DO YOU JUST
THINK OF THEM AS SEPARATE BEINGS?
I think they're all separate.
DOES YOUR GRANDMOTHER QUESTION YOU A LOT ABOUT YOUR BELIEFS?
Yes. And I tell her it's none of her business because I don't
want her to know.
DOES SHE EVER THREATEN YOU?
Yes, she says "I'm going to send you upstairs and tell your
Mother to spank you hard if you don't tell me." But I don't
listen.
THEN WHAT DOES SHE DO?
She says, "<Italian expletive deleted>! She won't talk!"
DO YOU KNOW THAT YOUR MOTHER WOULDN'T SPANK YOU FOR THAT?
Yes, that's why I don't listen. But, she says she'll make up a
lie so my parents will get mad and spank me.
WHY DON'T YOU JUST COME UPSTAIRS WHEN SHE BOTHERS YOU?
She blocks the door and wont let me go upstairs.
HOW OFTEN DOES SHE DO THIS? (Mom having hard time maintaining
neutral composure at this point)
Only that time when she heard us and wanted to know what was
going on and I wouldn't tell her, so she got mad.
DOES GRANDMA GO TO CHURCH?
No. She gave it up so she could stay with me.
IS THAT WHAT SHE TOLD YOU?
Yes. But I don't think it's true. She just says that to get me
to tell. (NOTE: The grandparents haven't been to church in
years. Taking care of Jen-Cat had NOTHING to do with them not
going to church, nor, are her grandparents particularly reli-
gious. They are Roman Catholic by training alone and have only
the dimmest understanding of their own faith.)
MOTHER'S COMMENTS: Jen-Cat doesn't understand too many fine
points about our practices because I've been hesitant about
sharing it with her. By her answers, you can see the type of
pressure she gets from my mother-in-law. The woman isn't a total
dragon, but she is nosy as hell and is very possessive of Jen-
Cat. Yet, Jen-Cat loves it whenever I include her in a ritual
and is very hurt when she's excluded.
We stress "Mother Earth" and respect for nature and all living
things. Jen-Cat loves the idea of "sharing the planet" and finds
great comfort in knowing her place in the world. As a result,
she is a very considerate and polite eight-year-old. We never
pretend to have all the answers. When we don't know something,
we tell her. She's very hurt that we're so badly outnumbered by
well meaning - but pushy- Christians. This occurs again and
again in her answers.
All I can tell other pagan parents is that they have to take into
consideration their child's maturity and discretion on these
matters. Some of the fundamentalists in our school district
approach proselytizing their religion with all the zeal and
subtlety of the Nazi SS. The child can hedge on the "What reli-
gion are you" question for only so long. Kids don't like other
kids who are different. I'm reminded of what happens if you dye
a monkey pink and stick it into a cage full of brown monkeys.
Just be supportive! We do have the right to our own religious
beliefs, but our children will be in for a rough time. GOOD
LUCK!
A FINAL QUESTION. WHAT WOULD YOU TELL PAGAN PARENTS TO TELL
THEIR CHILDREN?
I tell them if they want to be pagan, be pagan. If they want to
be Christian, I guess they can be Christian. Don't force them to
be something they don't like.
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NOTE FROM TOASTY----
I know that this will create A LOT of reaction from all of you.
This is NOT offered as proselytizing, only as the reaction of
one child to being raised Pagan in a Christian society.
If you have any comments or questions for Jen-Cat or her mother,
address them to me and I will forward and return the reply.
(Negativity and preaching WILL be ignored!)
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